Disk imaging software

Post by g***@aol.com
I have been using Acronis 2015 for years but they seemed have just
abandoned it. I am trying to reinstall and it just sits there with the
activate button grayed out. There is no support and it is just a
coaster now.
They don't even sell a product to replace it other than some $50 a
year subscription with a lot of stuff I don't want. What is everyone
using these days?

I use Macrium Reflect. I used the free version for quite a few years and I'd
recommend it if it was still available, but I switched to the paid version about
3 years ago, mostly to show my support for a solid piece of software.

J. P. Gilliver

2024-03-03 10:58:13 UTC

Seconded (or thirded, as another has endorsed it too). Versions 5 and 6
(possibly later too) will fit on a mini-CD. Version 5 worked up to a
version of Windows 10 about 3 years ago, then didn't; would still work
on 7, of course.

I'm a bit puzzled by your Acronis stopping working: did you not make a
boot CD (or USB stick)? That's what I did with Macrium (the free
version). If you have a bootable CD, then surely whatever _they_ do, it
won't stop working? Whether Macrium, Acronis, EaseUS (I think they do an
imager), or other.

But then I do my imaging by rebooting (or turning off) and booting from
the CD; OK, it takes a couple of minutes longer, but I feel it has a
better chance of imaging properly if the OS is not running. (Compared to
the time it takes to image the boot time is negligible anyway - though
that's not true of the version that _does_ work with 10.) Booting from
the CD also reassures me that the CD still works - just at imaging time,
rather than when I actually need it.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Society has the right to punish wrongdoing; it doesn't have the right to make
punishment a form of entertainment. This is where things have gone wrong:
humiliating other people has become both a blood sport and a narcotic.
- Joe Queenan, RT 2015/6/27-7/3

Ant

2024-03-03 20:49:33 UTC

Seconded (or thirded, as another has endorsed it too). Versions 5 and 6
(possibly later too) will fit on a mini-CD. Version 5 worked up to a
version of Windows 10 about 3 years ago, then didn't; would still work
on 7, of course.
I'm a bit puzzled by your Acronis stopping working: did you not make a
boot CD (or USB stick)? That's what I did with Macrium (the free
version). If you have a bootable CD, then surely whatever _they_ do, it
won't stop working? Whether Macrium, Acronis, EaseUS (I think they do an
imager), or other.
But then I do my imaging by rebooting (or turning off) and booting from
the CD; OK, it takes a couple of minutes longer, but I feel it has a
better chance of imaging properly if the OS is not running. (Compared to
the time it takes to image the boot time is negligible anyway - though
that's not true of the version that _does_ work with 10.) Booting from
the CD also reassures me that the CD still works - just at imaging time,
rather than when I actually need it.

I do this too. I avoid conflicts when OS is not running with a bootable media.

--
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( )

Sailfish

2024-03-03 15:59:31 UTC

I full heartedly agree the Char and others regarding the feature-rich
and well-supported Macrium Reflect. In the past I used Ghost and Acronis
for my backup needs but Reflect blows them away and, as others, while I
started with the free version, I happily opted to go with the one-time
payment for the registered version.

Paul has written extensively on this newsgroup on this jewel of a
product but alas, most of those threads are no longer available. Still,
I was able to find some of his discussion still active, below.

Ref: snews://news.eternal-september.org:443/tbeph9$39it5

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

Sailfish

2024-03-03 16:02:44 UTC

Post by Sailfish

Post by g***@aol.com
I have been using Acronis 2015 for years but they seemed have just
abandoned it. I am trying to reinstall and it just sits there with the
activate button grayed out. There is no support and it is just a
coaster now. They don't even sell a product to replace it other than
some $50 a
year subscription with a lot of stuff I don't want. What is everyone
using these days?

I full heartedly agree the Char and others regarding the feature-rich
and well-supported Macrium Reflect. In the past I used Ghost and Acronis
for my backup needs but Reflect blows them away and, as others, while I
started with the free version, I happily opted to go with the one-time
payment for the registered version.
Paul has written extensively on this newsgroup on this jewel of a
product but alas, most of those threads are no longer available. Still,
I was able to find some of his discussion still active, below.
Ref: snews://news.eternal-september.org:443/tbeph9$39it5

ugh! that link doesn't work, try searching on Reflect, looking for Paul
in the results and you find several replies still accessible.

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

c***@nycap.rr.com

2024-03-03 17:27:02 UTC

Just don't ask the uSoft suits any questions about your paid version,
they'll want you to buy it again. I bought Macrium version 8 for its
encryption feature. I've tossed it and went back to the free version.

Paul in Houston TX

2024-03-03 06:18:10 UTC

I use Macrium Reflect 7.1 UEFI since 2018 and am quite happy with it.
All my drives are either nvme.2 or ssd. Don't know if Macrium has
support or not. Have never needed any support.

g***@aol.com

2024-03-04 05:30:57 UTC

On Sun, 3 Mar 2024 00:18:10 -0600, Paul in Houston TX

I use Macrium Reflect 7.1 UEFI since 2018 and am quite happy with it.
All my drives are either nvme.2 or ssd. Don't know if Macrium has
support or not. Have never needed any support.

OK Thanks. Macrium it is. I liked Acronis until it stopped working but
they just don't want you using anymore, even if you paid for it.
The backup tool on the boot CD works so I have a fairly recent image
of my C: but I like it automatic.

Paul in Houston TX

2024-03-04 06:22:27 UTC

Post by g***@aol.com
On Sun, 3 Mar 2024 00:18:10 -0600, Paul in Houston TX

I use Macrium Reflect 7.1 UEFI since 2018 and am quite happy with it.
All my drives are either nvme.2 or ssd. Don't know if Macrium has
support or not. Have never needed any support.

I used to use Acronis and liked it but it was from Western Digital and
WD spinner specific. So when I went to all solid state drives I tried
several other backups and settled on Macrium. I use it to image and
also clone. Especially on the work comps. If something goes wrong with
a drive I can swap to the clone and be back in operation in just a few
minutes.
I also use FreeFileSync for the data files. IMO, it's a great program, too.

J. P. Gilliver

2024-03-04 06:57:40 UTC

[]

Post by g***@aol.com
OK Thanks. Macrium it is. I liked Acronis until it stopped working but
they just don't want you using anymore, even if you paid for it.
The backup tool on the boot CD works so I have a fairly recent image
of my C: but I like it automatic.

Ah, "I like it automatic" explains why Acronis "stopped working" for
you: I presume by "automatic", you mean it runs under Windows. (Macrium
will indeed do that for you too, including - as I think most of them
will, even the free versions - deleting the oldest image when necessary
to make space for the newest).

The trouble with relying on automatic is that unless you check, you
don't know if it has stopped working. If you're good at doing that sort
of checking, fine; automatic (assuming it actually makes a valid image
when running under Windows) certainly is less bother, as you can
schedule it to run when you're not using the machine, such as (for most
people) in the small hours. You're at the mercy of Windows updates, i.
e. the possibility that one of them will stop it working; this thread is
in the W7 newsgroup so that won't bother us, but 10 (and 11 and ...) may
be different.

Post by Paul in Houston TX
I used to use Acronis and liked it but it was from Western Digital and
WD spinner specific. So when I went to all solid state drives I tried
several other backups and settled on Macrium. I use it to image and

I think some of the make-specific versions work as long as there is one
drive from the qualifying manufacturer in the system - at least, that
used to be the case (I think); I don't know if it still is.

Post by Paul in Houston TX
also clone. Especially on the work comps. If something goes wrong
with a drive I can swap to the clone and be back in operation in just a
few minutes.

That does require you to have multiple drives. If some of your computers
are for your work, then that's reasonable.

Post by Paul in Houston TX
I also use FreeFileSync for the data files. IMO, it's a great program, too.

It's easy to use/understand. It _doesn't_ track renames (which I _think_
the Russinovitch one I used to use - SyncToy I think - did: but I got
the feeling that wasn't copying all files); if you rename a file (let
alone a folder/directory), FreeFileSync just deletes (the backup copy)
and recopies, rather than renaming the backup. But I'll continue using
it!

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the
law." - Winston Churchill.

Newyana2

2024-03-04 13:14:17 UTC

"J. P. Gilliver" <***@255soft.uk> wrote

| Ah, "I like it automatic" explains why Acronis "stopped working" for
| you: I presume by "automatic", you mean it runs under Windows. (Macrium
| will indeed do that for you too, including - as I think most of them
| will, even the free versions - deleting the oldest image when necessary
| to make space for the newest).
|
| The trouble with relying on automatic is that unless you check, you
| don't know if it has stopped working.

Another issue is that that approach is not really disk image backup.
It's just backup, like the idea of a RAID array. If you get, for example,
a power surge that takes out your drives then you're out of luck,
because you don't actually have a stored disk image. There's also
the possibility of corruption or malware getting spread to backup.

There's nothing wrong with RAID approach, but people shouldn't
mistake that for disk image backup.

Frank Slootweg

2024-03-04 14:39:48 UTC

Huh? Of course it's disk image backup.

Post by Newyana2
It's just backup, like the idea of a RAID array.

It's nothing like a RAID array, because a RAID array continuously
tracks changes. Image backup is point-in-time backup, not continuous.

Post by Newyana2
If you get, for example,
a power surge that takes out your drives then you're out of luck,
because you don't actually have a stored disk image.

It seems you're assuming that the image backup is made to an internal
disk. That might be the case, but the OP (***@aol.com) hasn't
said he makes backup to an internal disk. For example I make image
backup to an external disk and that disk is stored offsite and swapped
with another disk. So my backup is protected against the scenario you
mention, but also against theft, fire, etc..

Post by Newyana2
There's also
the possibility of corruption or malware getting spread to backup.

True, but that's the case for any kind of backup.

Post by Newyana2
There's nothing wrong with RAID approach, but people shouldn't
mistake that for disk image backup.

I don't understand why you bring that up, because (AFAIK) nobody has
been talking about RAID.

J. P. Gilliver

2024-03-04 18:25:43 UTC

Huh? Of course it's disk image backup.

I agree.
[]

Post by Newyana2
If you get, for example,
a power surge that takes out your drives then you're out of luck,
because you don't actually have a stored disk image.

It seems you're assuming that the image backup is made to an internal
said he makes backup to an internal disk. For example I make image
backup to an external disk and that disk is stored offsite and swapped
with another disk. So my backup is protected against the scenario you
mention, but also against theft, fire, etc..

That does require manual moving about of discs - he wants something
automatic. But, as you say, he hasn't said it's to a disc in the same
machine as the one being backed up - it could be to a network drive, or
even a remote one.

Post by Newyana2
There's also
the possibility of corruption or malware getting spread to backup.

True, but that's the case for any kind of backup.

Indeed.
[]

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If it's nice to look at and it makes you feel good, it's art. - Grayson Perry,
interviewed in Radio Times 12-18 October 2013

Frank Slootweg

2024-03-04 19:42:55 UTC

Huh? Of course it's disk image backup.

I agree.
[]

Post by Newyana2
If you get, for example,
a power surge that takes out your drives then you're out of luck,
because you don't actually have a stored disk image.

That does require manual moving about of discs - he wants something
automatic.

True, but that the backup phase is automatic, doesn't mean that the
moving about of disks can't be manual, i.e. the disk can be connected
(well) before the backup is scheduled and disconnected (well) after the
backup has run.

Post by J. P. Gilliver
But, as you say, he hasn't said it's to a disc in the same
machine as the one being backed up - it could be to a network drive, or
even a remote one.

Indeed, some of my backup (not image, but file-level) is done to my
NAS and some is done to The Cloud (Google Drive). Of course Newyana2's
example of a power surge could take out my NAS as well, but as we
haven't had any such power surges for some five decades, I think I'm not
going to worry to much about those! :-)

Post by Newyana2
There's also
the possibility of corruption or malware getting spread to backup.

True, but that's the case for any kind of backup.

Indeed.
[]

Zaidy036

2024-03-04 19:50:28 UTC

Huh? Of course it's disk image backup.

I agree.
[]

Post by Newyana2
If you get, for example,
a power surge that takes out your drives then you're out of luck,
because you don't actually have a stored disk image.

That does require manual moving about of discs - he wants something
automatic.

Post by J. P. Gilliver
But, as you say, he hasn't said it's to a disc in the same
machine as the one being backed up - it could be to a network drive, or
even a remote one.

Post by Newyana2
There's also
the possibility of corruption or malware getting spread to backup.

True, but that's the case for any kind of backup.

Indeed.
[]

No power surge? Then you are lucky. My UPS battery needed replacement
one afternoon and that night we had an electrical storm which must have
been close because the next morning I found my NAS non-responsive and
"fried". I had a copy of the last image on a portable HDD and it was
disconnected and in a safe place.

Frank Slootweg

2024-03-04 20:12:42 UTC

[...]

Post by Zaidy036

Post by Frank Slootweg
Indeed, some of my backup (not image, but file-level) is done to my
NAS and some is done to The Cloud (Google Drive). Of course Newyana2's
example of a power surge could take out my NAS as well, but as we
haven't had any such power surges for some five decades, I think I'm not
going to worry to much about those! :-)

[...]

Post by Zaidy036
No power surge? Then you are lucky. My UPS battery needed replacement
one afternoon and that night we had an electrical storm which must have
been close because the next morning I found my NAS non-responsive and
"fried". I had a copy of the last image on a portable HDD and it was
disconnected and in a safe place.

Nope, no power surges and the five decades ago was a lightning strike
which took our most of our customer's serial interfaces.

UPSs are uncommon here (NL), except in hospitals, etc..

The grid is very stable with time between outages counted in years.

But it is probably going to get worse with all the solar panels, EVs,
electric cooking/heating, etc. making the load on the grid much higher
in a rather short timeframe. To compensate, we have a petrol/gas car and
gas heating/cooking. We're doing our bit to save others! :-)

Newyana2

2024-03-05 01:30:27 UTC

"Zaidy036" <***@air.isp.spam> wrote

| No power surge? Then you are lucky. My UPS battery needed replacement
| one afternoon and that night we had an electrical storm which must have
| been close because the next morning I found my NAS non-responsive and
| "fried". I had a copy of the last image on a portable HDD and it was
| disconnected and in a safe place.

I've had a similar experience twice. Once I think was around '99.
There was a northeast US power failure. A surge resulted. My
whole system burned out. Minor surges can actually be daily
occurences in some places, if people don't use a UPS.

The second case for me was one time when I decided to
put a CD writer into a computer. I had used that CD writer before,
but somehow something went wrong. I smelled smoke and before
I could shut it off, something blew. All components were
burned out.

g***@aol.com

2024-03-05 07:34:47 UTC

Post by Zaidy036

Huh? Of course it's disk image backup.

I agree.
[]

Post by Newyana2
If you get, for example,
a power surge that takes out your drives then you're out of luck,
because you don't actually have a stored disk image.

That does require manual moving about of discs - he wants something
automatic.

Post by J. P. Gilliver
But, as you say, he hasn't said it's to a disc in the same
machine as the one being backed up - it could be to a network drive, or
even a remote one.

Post by Newyana2
There's also
the possibility of corruption or malware getting spread to backup.

True, but that's the case for any kind of backup.

Indeed.
[]

I did lightning protection as a service from IBM in the lightning
capital of the US. I have pretty good surge protection. That doesn't
really bother me. We had a thousand customers who were not willing to
turn off their machines every afternoon and unplug them. We took our
lightning calls down from several a week to a couple a year, usually
because they did something dumb. I still keep 2 rotating offline
drives in my safe and "sneaker net" the data to them..

Newyana2

2024-03-05 01:24:48 UTC

"J. P. Gilliver" <***@255soft.uk> wrote

| >> There's also
| >> the possibility of corruption or malware getting spread to backup.
| >
| > True, but that's the case for any kind of backup.
|
| Indeed.

If you set up Windows and then image it. there's virtually no
risk of malware. You have a pristine image. If you also back up
data then you're ready to put things back to normal if necessary.
If you do an incremental backup then if you ever encounter
malware it will be added to the backup.

It's fine to do a RAID-style backup, but it shouldn't be
mistaken for a real backup. If the computer is damaged,
stolen, etc, then your incremental backup will be useless.
So you have to think of it that way: If your computer is stolen
tomorrow, do you have backup?
Incremental backup is really only good for one thing: a failed
disk. For that I use redundant disks on each computer.

The reason I brought this up is because a lot of people
think incremental backup and disk image backup are the
same. Disk image backup means you have an ISO ready to
write to disk, should you need to. That ISO shouldn't be on
the computer and it doesn't need updated data. The data
can be backed up separately.

Java Jive

2024-03-05 10:19:05 UTC

Post by Newyana2
The reason I brought this up is because a lot of people
think incremental backup and disk image backup are the
same. Disk image backup means you have an ISO ready to
write to disk, should you need to. That ISO shouldn't

... only ...

Post by Newyana2
be on
the computer and it doesn't need updated data. The data
can be backed up separately.

... with the above correction I can agree with you. It makes some sense
to have your latest disk-image backup of your system drive on your data
drive, as long as space allows, because:
+ It will be backed up automatically by your usual data backup regime;
+ Restoration is quicker than it would be over a network.

--
Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

Newyana2

2024-03-05 12:29:24 UTC

"Java Jive" <***@evij.com.invalid> wrote

| ... with the above correction I can agree with you. It makes some sense
| to have your latest disk-image backup of your system drive on your data
| drive, as long as space allows, because:
| + It will be backed up automatically by your usual data backup regime;
| + Restoration is quicker than it would be over a network.
|

I don't have an automated "usual data backup regime".
I maintain disk images. I back up timely data regularly to
DVD. Other data like photos are kept on separate partitions
and get copied to DVD/USB sticks or old hard disks very
occasionally. I also keep copies of those things in a safe
deposit box.

I have copies of my disk images on data partitions. But
I also back them up elsewhere. People have different methods.
The final test: If you lose your computer somehow, do you
still have backup? Do you have an ISO that can go onto
a repaired or replaced computer? If not then it's just a home
made RAID array.

That's an important distinction. When disk image backup
became popular, a lot of people were buying Acronis for $100
because it was no-brain backup. But it wasn't true disk image
backup. For that people need to understand at least a little of
OSs, partitions and now EFI.

But everyone's different. I have a friend who pays substantially
to a tech support person, who simply set her up with a product
called Aconite -- total backup remotely. I think it's over $100 per
year. I had another friend who called me about her computer failing.
I asked her what she'd lost that she needed back. Nothing. She
used it for gmail and to print out plane flight passes. She could
have her daughter re-send the baby pictures. For her the computer
was an access device, not a work or storage device.

I suppose that's probably increasingly true. I'm surprised at
how many people have replaced a computer with a cellphone.
Then they use gmail and retail "apps".

J. P. Gilliver

2024-03-05 12:57:58 UTC

In message <us7377$3oq82$***@dont-email.me> at Tue, 5 Mar 2024 07:29:24,
Newyana2 <***@invalid.nospam> writes
[]

Post by Newyana2
The final test: If you lose your computer somehow, do you
still have backup? Do you have an ISO that can go onto
a repaired or replaced computer? If not then it's just a home
made RAID array.

That's a very important distinction: are you concerned about restoring a
working computer, or just data.
[]

Post by Newyana2
But everyone's different. I have a friend who pays substantially
to a tech support person, who simply set her up with a product
called Aconite -- total backup remotely. I think it's over $100 per
year. I had another friend who called me about her computer failing.
I asked her what she'd lost that she needed back. Nothing. She
used it for gmail and to print out plane flight passes. She could
have her daughter re-send the baby pictures. For her the computer
was an access device, not a work or storage device.

So she's using her daughter as the backup device (-:.

Post by Newyana2
I suppose that's probably increasingly true. I'm surprised at
how many people have replaced a computer with a cellphone.
Then they use gmail and retail "apps".

That's almost entirely data (and emails). Fine, if you really are just
using the computer (or 'phone) as an access device, i. e. you wouldn't
be that bothered if you had to replace it with a different device. My
main reason for imaging is that I have much software set up how I want
it, and it takes me weeks, months, or years to get it back to that state
- and I can't remember (may never have known!) how I got some of those
setups to that condition. [I guess I'm imaging against hard disk
failure, or corruption/ransomware; if I had to replace the whole
computer with something different, I'd probably have to set up
everything again anyway.] I back up the data that represents most effort
- genealogical and emails - on a frequent basis, and all my data less
frequently, but those are just data backups, basically copying (albeit
with FreeFileSync), not images.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes

g***@aol.com

2024-03-05 13:22:11 UTC

That's a very important distinction: are you concerned about restoring a
working computer, or just data.
[]

So she's using her daughter as the backup device (-:.

Post by Newyana2
I suppose that's probably increasingly true. I'm surprised at
how many people have replaced a computer with a cellphone.
Then they use gmail and retail "apps".

Exactly. I keep my C: as small as I can by only having the OS and
installed software on it. That needs to be an image to be useful. Data
is just data and a simple copy does the trick but installed software
is more complicated to reproduce ever since the "Registry" became a
thing. (XP)
You could copy a W/98 system with XCOPY and the right switches. SHERC
as I recall but it has been a while. Even in those days I kept C: for
software and D: for data.

J. P. Gilliver

2024-03-05 13:38:42 UTC

In message <***@4ax.com> at Tue, 5 Mar
2024 08:22:11, ***@aol.com writes
[]

Post by g***@aol.com
Exactly. I keep my C: as small as I can by only having the OS and
installed software on it. That needs to be an image to be useful. Data

Me too (50G for my current 7 setup). OS, software, and that data which a
few softwares insist on putting on C (or in a few cases where it's such
a small amount it's not worth arguing with the software).

Post by g***@aol.com
is just data and a simple copy does the trick but installed software
is more complicated to reproduce ever since the "Registry" became a
thing. (XP)

I'm convinced the registry was initially _mainly_ an antipiracy measure,
where obfuscation of how it works was understandable (using keys etc. of
obscure names, putting them in unexpected places, and so on). Some
_slight_ justification across common things, like office suites, too.
Unfortunately that then allowed programmers to become lazy, and (a) use
it for everything (b) continue not to use meaningful names or care where
they put things.

I still think, for most software, .ini files are (were) superior. Yes,
they can be slower - but copies can be kept in memory while the software
is running, so that isn't that much of an argument. But we'll never get
back to them now.

Post by g***@aol.com
You could copy a W/98 system with XCOPY and the right switches. SHERC
as I recall but it has been a while. Even in those days I kept C: for
software and D: for data.

Ditto.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes

Daniel65

2024-03-08 09:45:14 UTC

On Tue, 5 Mar 2024 12:57:58 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver"

The final test: If you lose your computer somehow, do you still
have backup? Do you have an ISO that can go onto a repaired or
replaced computer? If not then it's just a home made RAID array.

That's a very important distinction: are you concerned about
restoring a working computer, or just data. []

But everyone's different. I have a friend who pays substantially
to a tech support person, who simply set her up with a product
called Aconite -- total backup remotely. I think it's over $100
per year. I had another friend who called me about her computer
failing. I asked her what she'd lost that she needed back.
Nothing. She used it for gmail and to print out plane flight
passes. She could have her daughter re-send the baby pictures.
For her the computer was an access device, not a work or storage
device.

So she's using her daughter as the backup device (-:.

I suppose that's probably increasingly true. I'm surprised at how
many people have replaced a computer with a cellphone. Then they
use gmail and retail "apps".

That's almost entirely data (and emails). Fine, if you really are
just using the computer (or 'phone) as an access device, i. e. you
wouldn't be that bothered if you had to replace it with a different
device. My main reason for imaging is that I have much software set
up how I want it, and it takes me weeks, months, or years to get it
back to that state - and I can't remember (may never have known!)
how I got some of those setups to that condition. [I guess I'm
imaging against hard disk failure, or corruption/ransomware; if I
had to replace the whole computer with something different, I'd
probably have to set up everything again anyway.] I back up the
data that represents most effort - genealogical and emails - on a
frequent basis, and all my data less frequently, but those are just
data backups, basically copying (albeit with FreeFileSync), not
images.

Exactly. I keep my C: as small as I can by only having the OS and
installed software on it. That needs to be an image to be useful.
Data is just data and a simple copy does the trick but installed
software is more complicated to reproduce ever since the "Registry"
became a thing. (XP) You could copy a W/98 system with XCOPY and the
right switches. SHERC as I recall but it has been a while. Even in
those days I kept C: for software and D: for data.

Me .... C:\ for System, D:\ for other Executables and E:\ for
Data/Music/etc.

--
Daniel

J. P. Gilliver

2024-03-08 13:34:09 UTC

In message <usemn8$1k73a$***@dont-email.me> at Fri, 8 Mar 2024 20:45:14,
Daniel65 <***@nomail.afraid.org> writes
[]

Post by Daniel65
Me .... C:\ for System, D:\ for other Executables and E:\ for
Data/Music/etc.

I often see that, or similar - people keeping software other than the OS
on a separate partition. I've never seen the point: I image C: so I can
restore my system _and_ other software to the setting(s) I'm used to,
and also think I would find it very hard to keep them separate anyway.
For example, virtually all software these days puts stuff in the
registry when you install it, and isn't that on C:?

I'm not telling anyone else how to do their images/backups, though!

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

A clean, neat and orderly desk is a sign of a sick mind. (G6JPG's mind is
clearly extremely healthy ...)

Ant

2024-03-09 06:52:39 UTC

Post by Daniel65
Me .... C:\ for System, D:\ for other Executables and E:\ for
Data/Music/etc.

I often see that, or similar - people keeping software other than the OS
on a separate partition. I've never seen the point: I image C: so I can
restore my system _and_ other software to the setting(s) I'm used to,
and also think I would find it very hard to keep them separate anyway.
For example, virtually all software these days puts stuff in the
registry when you install it, and isn't that on C:?
I'm not telling anyone else how to do their images/backups, though!

Ditto. The other drive (HDD, not SSD) are for medias, archives, etc.
that do not need to be imaged.

--
"What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. As it is written: 'There is no one righteous, not even one ...'" --Romans 3:9-10. LAX or bust?
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

Frank Slootweg

2024-03-05 19:30:27 UTC

Newyana2 <***@invalid.nospam> wrote:
[...]

Post by Newyana2
The final test: If you lose your computer somehow, do you
still have backup?

Yes, I do and AFAICT all the posters in this thread do.

Post by Newyana2
Do you have an ISO that can go onto
a repaired or replaced computer?

The disk/partition image backup files which we have are no ISOs, but
special format files (.mrimg files in the case of Macrium Reflect).

We can restore the disk/partitions by booting from 'Rescue media' (USB
memory-stick, CD/DVD, etc.), so we don't need an ISO (other than in the
corner case of a replacement computer which can't run the 'old' OS, but
in that case the replacement computer will come_with/need it's own OS).

Post by Newyana2
If not then it's just a home
made RAID array.

As I mentioned before, disk/partition image backup a RAID are two
completely different things. Nobody but you mentioned RAID.

Post by Newyana2
That's an important distinction. When disk image backup
became popular, a lot of people were buying Acronis for $100
because it was no-brain backup. But it wasn't true disk image
backup.

You keep saying that, but that doesn't make it so. Acronis, Macrium,
etc. backup *is* "true disk image backup".

Post by Newyana2
For that people need to understand at least a little of
OSs, partitions and now EFI.

Duh!

[...]

Paul

2024-03-06 07:59:26 UTC

Post by Newyana2
I have copies of my disk images on data partitions. But
I also back them up elsewhere. People have different methods.
The final test: If you lose your computer somehow, do you
still have backup? Do you have an ISO that can go onto
a repaired or replaced computer? If not then it's just a home
made RAID array.
That's an important distinction. When disk image backup
became popular, a lot of people were buying Acronis for $100
because it was no-brain backup. But it wasn't true disk image
backup. For that people need to understand at least a little of
OSs, partitions and now EFI.

An old timer like yourself, might well think of a disk image as this.
A dd.exe dump. Just a bunch of sectors. Yes, this is definitely a "snapshot in time".
This could be managed as a "cloning circus". Say, two 1TB drives, one an
exact copy of another, or, a 2TB drive with a compressed copy of big.img file
as a "collection of Full disk images". Which could be decompressed and "cloned"
to the second 1TB disk on demand (say gzip piped to dd.exe for re-constitution).
This is what we did, before we had backup software.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Big Bag of Bytes |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Some of the old timers used to back up individual partitions with dd.exe . This
requires some knowledge of the "brittleness" of the approach. dd.exe has no
"resize" capability.

*******

Most backup softwares have a basic understanding of the component parts of the disk.
For example, the Disk Management tool that comes with windows, is not complete enough
for real disk work. That's a bit dangerous, in a discussion environment like the
one we're in right now. I have to explain to people, on occasion, why the partition
numbering is fucked up in the Windows view.

[Picture] How Windows views the drawing which follows

Loading Image...

This is the level that Macrium understands it. Missing from the diagram (to avoid confusion),
are the two GPT 64KB partition tables. The secondary GPT table is up the end, no more than
one cylinder from the end of the disk drive. When you move a GPT disk between different
sized hardware, the secondary GPT serves as a "trap for the unwary". If you just dd.exe a
1TB disk to a 2TB disk, the secondary partition table is in the wrong location.

Notice how Macrium knows there is an MSR (a partition with no file system), and Macrium
makes a copy of (2) using dd.exe . Linux Gparted, refuses to touch (2), and (2) is
pure misery in terms of an item placed on disk drives (certain GParted manipulations
aren't going to work on the left side of the disk). It's nothing short of "stupid".
the person who thought of this should be fired. "Make a file system, or please be fucking off"
-- that's the rule. The GPT partition tables are bad enough as a feature, but at least
their purpose and layer in the diagram is understandable.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7
+---+-------+---------+--------+--------------+---------+----------+-------+-----------+ The two 64KB GPT
|MBR| bttrk |ESP 100MB|MSR 16MB| C: 118.7 GiB |Rec 649MB| H: 129GB |Rec 1GB| S: shared | partition tables
+---+-------+---------+--------+--------------+---------+----------+-------+-----------+ are not shown here.
|1 megabyte | Grrr^^^^

I can see some of this, in a disktype.exe dump. This records the view in both MSDOS legacy
terms, as well as GPT terms. Like a Macintosh hard drive, a Windows GPT drive has a
"get off my lawn" warning in the form of 0xEE. The 0xEE partition tells a legacy OS
that "there is no room to be adding partitions, now go away". This prevents a legacy
OS from ruining a GPT disk.

--- /dev/sda
Block device, size 3.639 TiB (4000787030016 bytes)
DOS/MBR partition map
Partition 1: 2.000 TiB (2199023255040 bytes, 4294967295 sectors from 1)
Type 0xEE (EFI GPT protective)
GPT partition map, 128 entries <=== 64KB storage used
Disk size 3.639 TiB (4000787030016 bytes, 7814037168 sectors)
Disk GUID CD4D6752-BAC8-B446-90A7-662721F0DD2D
Partition 1: 100 MiB (104857600 bytes, 204800 sectors from 2048)
Type EFI System (FAT) (GUID 28732AC1-1FF8-D211-BA4B-00A0C93EC93B)
Partition Name "EFI system partition"
Partition GUID BE145A8D-FC87-9B45-AFB1-8959CB4D727A
FAT32 file system (hints score 4 of 5)
Volume size 96 MiB (100663296 bytes, 98304 clusters of 1 KiB)
Partition 2: 16 MiB (16777216 bytes, 32768 sectors from 206848)
Type MS Reserved (GUID 16E3C9E3-5C0B-B84D-817D-F92DF00215AE)
Partition Name "Microsoft reserved partition"
Partition GUID B000A1BB-661C-7541-AF97-88BB60627F66
Partition 3: 118.7 GiB (127481675776 bytes, 248987648 sectors from 239616)
Type Basic Data (GUID A2A0D0EB-E5B9-3344-87C0-68B6B72699C7)
Partition Name "Basic data partition"
Partition GUID 6A16D60B-3608-4140-891C-792DF2C72ABD
NTFS file system
Volume size 118.7 GiB (127481675264 bytes, 248987647 sectors)
Partition 4: 649 MiB (680525824 bytes, 1329152 sectors from 249227264)
Type Unknown (GUID A4BB94DE-D106-404D-A16A-BFD50179D6AC)
Partition Name ""
Partition GUID B15ABCC3-F0C5-AE4D-838C-751EF868E237
NTFS file system
Volume size 649.0 MiB (680521728 bytes, 1329144 sectors)
Partition 5: 129.0 GiB (138510690816 bytes, 270528693 sectors from 250556416)
Type Basic Data (GUID A2A0D0EB-E5B9-3344-87C0-68B6B72699C7)
Partition Name "Basic data partition"
Partition GUID BC694DBD-BB6F-124F-B804-F32C6B9E828C
NTFS file system
Volume size 129.0 GiB (138510690304 bytes, 270528692 sectors)
Partition 6: 1.001 GiB (1074790400 bytes, 2099200 sectors from 521086976)
Type Unknown (GUID A4BB94DE-D106-404D-A16A-BFD50179D6AC)
Partition Name ""
Partition GUID CF6B38AF-C016-3F48-A84B-B310CC27C8E8
NTFS file system
Volume size 1.001 GiB (1074786304 bytes, 2099192 sectors)
Partition 7: 682.0 GiB (732331769856 bytes, 1430335488 sectors from 523186176)
Type Basic Data (GUID A2A0D0EB-E5B9-3344-87C0-68B6B72699C7)
Partition Name "Basic data partition"
Partition GUID DA97834F-DF61-974A-B913-9BD526C13C9A
NTFS file system
Volume size 682.0 GiB (732331769344 bytes, 1430335487 sectors)
Partition 8: unused

When Macrium does a restore, not only does it modify the Partition GUID (aka VolumeID),
it also edits the BCD file (has to find it first!), so that the
disk boots as it did previously. This makes the restored disk,
completely independent of any other disk in the computer (or
at least that's the design intent... YMMV).

Macrium can restore one partition at a time. During restoration,
it can change the size of a partition. I refer to this activity
(what amounts to Partition Management) as a "Drag and Drop Restore",
as it allows you to change the order of the partitions, their size,
their offset, or whatever. Or can re-lay-out the disk drive, during
restoration. I can and have used this, as time consuming as it is.
It's because some Partition Managers are particularly slow at
"doing it their way". For example, Paragon switches to using dd.exe
on some occasions, as part of partition movement. This makes me
more than a little crazy, watching this. Doing dd.exe and moving the
disk heads back and forth a million times, is not so clever.

So while in a light-handed way, this is "disk imaging" (the logical
content of the disk is captured, the boot track is stored), in other
ways it's a partition backup tool. The partitions can also be
mounted for casual examination, or pulling one file out of a 2TB MRIMG.
And, because Macrium has a tick box to "remove restrictions", when
you mount a partition, you can "see everywhere" and go places that
normally would require permissions work to get to. That's how I can
see into places that Everything.exe cannot see!

A number of other commercial products, are like this too. Acronis,
or AOMEI or Easeus, they should all be able to do stuff like this.
I just haven't had the time or inclination to test them.

Paul

Newyana2

2024-03-06 16:38:00 UTC

"Paul" <***@needed.invalid> wrote

| An old timer like yourself, might well think of a disk image as this.
| A dd.exe dump. Just a bunch of sectors. Yes, this is definitely a
"snapshot in time".

I'm an oldtimer in years for some people. I'm not really
a computer oldtimer. My first computer to speak of
was Win98. My first backup tools were Partition Magic
and Drive Image. I don't do command-line unless I absolutely
have to. Life's too short.

| So while in a light-handed way, this is "disk imaging" (the logical
| content of the disk is captured, the boot track is stored), in other
| ways it's a partition backup tool. The partitions can also be
| mounted for casual examination, or pulling one file out of a 2TB MRIMG.
| And, because Macrium has a tick box to "remove restrictions", when
| you mount a partition, you can "see everywhere" and go places that
| normally would require permissions work to get to. That's how I can
| see into places that Everything.exe cannot see!
|
| A number of other commercial products, are like this too. Acronis,
| or AOMEI or Easeus, they should all be able to do stuff like this.
| I just haven't had the time or inclination to test them.
|

I've just been recently discovering GPT and the GUID
complication. Up until now I haven't used it. I've been
using BootIt for all operations for a long time now. I don't
know how it compares to the others. I found it to be
dependable and very fast, so I didn't look further. When
they came out with the UEFI version I bought that, too.

One curiosity, though: If I understand you correctly,
BootIt hides the 64 KB partitions. But when setting up
a disk for OSs it creates the EFI as well as a 16 MB "Microsoft"
partition. You don't show any such partrition in your
listing. I haven't bothered to look into it. Do you
know the story on that partition?

Paul

2024-03-06 18:33:04 UTC

Post by Newyana2
| An old timer like yourself, might well think of a disk image as this.
| A dd.exe dump. Just a bunch of sectors. Yes, this is definitely a
"snapshot in time".
I'm an oldtimer in years for some people. I'm not really
a computer oldtimer. My first computer to speak of
was Win98. My first backup tools were Partition Magic
and Drive Image. I don't do command-line unless I absolutely
have to. Life's too short.
| So while in a light-handed way, this is "disk imaging" (the logical
| content of the disk is captured, the boot track is stored), in other
| ways it's a partition backup tool. The partitions can also be
| mounted for casual examination, or pulling one file out of a 2TB MRIMG.
| And, because Macrium has a tick box to "remove restrictions", when
| you mount a partition, you can "see everywhere" and go places that
| normally would require permissions work to get to. That's how I can
| see into places that Everything.exe cannot see!
|
| A number of other commercial products, are like this too. Acronis,
| or AOMEI or Easeus, they should all be able to do stuff like this.
| I just haven't had the time or inclination to test them.
|
I've just been recently discovering GPT and the GUID
complication. Up until now I haven't used it. I've been
using BootIt for all operations for a long time now. I don't
know how it compares to the others. I found it to be
dependable and very fast, so I didn't look further. When
they came out with the UEFI version I bought that, too.
One curiosity, though: If I understand you correctly,
BootIt hides the 64 KB partitions. But when setting up
a disk for OSs it creates the EFI as well as a 16 MB "Microsoft"
partition. You don't show any such partrition in your
listing. I haven't bothered to look into it. Do you
know the story on that partition?

[CORRECTION: GPT partition table is 128*128 = 16KB in length)

On MSDOS legacy, there was a four entry partition table inside the MBR.

On GPT disks, the 16KB GPT table (128 slots) is at either end of the disk.
I have looked at it in a hex editor, and the unused slots (9 thru 128) are
left all zeros, and this makes it hard to see the position of the top-most
slot.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7
+---+-------+---------+--------+--------------+---------+----------+-------+-----------+ The two 16KB GPT
|MBR| bttrk |ESP 100MB|MSR 16MB| C: 118.7 GiB |Rec 649MB| H: 129GB |Rec 1GB| S: shared | partition tables
+---+-------+---------+--------+--------------+---------+----------+-------+-----------+ are not shown here.
|1 megabyte | Grrr^^^^

To spot the primary GPT table, we might find the secondary GPT table on the
right, then look for a similar entry on the left. You can do that with HxD.
Turns out, it wasn't that hard to find.

[Picture] Looking at the layout with hex editor

Loading Image...

Paul

J. P. Gilliver

2024-03-06 22:39:10 UTC

In message <usa65c$gv0u$***@dont-email.me> at Wed, 6 Mar 2024 11:38:00,
Newyana2 <***@invalid.nospam> writes
[]

Post by Newyana2
I'm an oldtimer in years for some people. I'm not really
a computer oldtimer. My first computer to speak of
was Win98. My first backup tools were Partition Magic
and Drive Image. I don't do command-line unless I absolutely
have to. Life's too short.

[]
While for backup I find Macrium - with its GUI - more than adequate for
my needs, I don't reject command-line for everything. Sometimes there's
a command-line utility that's just so much better than the GUI
alternatives.

I have two conflicting examples: ffmpeg is, I am sure, a very powerful
utility, for all sorts of audio and video conversions. However, I've got
several GUI utilities that I know are based on it - at least, they
include ffmpeg.exe (or similar) among the other files that come with
them. They do most of what I want - i. e. there, I agree: life's too
short. On the other hand, yt-dlp is IMO excellent at what it does, but
the odd GUI wrapper for it that I've tried don't cut the mustard, so I
use its command-line version (mainly without any parameters). I've
mostly got muscle memory - I leave a command window open, and have got
used to copying the URL, then "y space alt-space E P" to use it (I've
renamed it from yt-dlp to just y).

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Advertising is legalized lying. - H.G. Wells

Newyana2

2024-03-07 04:00:26 UTC

"J. P. Gilliver" <***@255soft.uk> wrote

| On the other hand, yt-dlp is IMO excellent at what it does, but
| the odd GUI wrapper for it that I've tried don't cut the mustard, so I
| use its command-line version (mainly without any parameters).

I actually wrote myself an HTA utility for that; originally
for youtube-dl, but they both work the same way. I just
copy the URL from DDG and paste it into my utility's text
field. No muss, no fuss. If I'm going to type the command line
more than once -- for any reason -- then I'll automate it.
Because it becomes easier to write a script than to do it
by hand every time.

Then I found 3dyd, which has so far worked better than the
other two, has options for format conversion, and provides
a GUI. So once again -- copy, paste, click.

My desktop has maybe 30 VBScripts and 10 HTAs. They do
various things that I've found I want to do more than once.
Some are quite complicated, like my javascript de-obfuscator.
Others do things like fix carriage returns in unix files.

J. P. Gilliver

2024-03-07 11:55:21 UTC

Post by Newyana2
| On the other hand, yt-dlp is IMO excellent at what it does, but
| the odd GUI wrapper for it that I've tried don't cut the mustard, so I
| use its command-line version (mainly without any parameters).
I actually wrote myself an HTA utility for that; originally
for youtube-dl, but they both work the same way. I just
copy the URL from DDG and paste it into my utility's text
field. No muss, no fuss. If I'm going to type the command line
more than once -- for any reason -- then I'll automate it.
Because it becomes easier to write a script than to do it
by hand every time.

Presumably you keep your utility open, as I do my command window in the
yt-dlp directory. Copy, y space paste.

Post by Newyana2
Then I found 3dyd, which has so far worked better than the
other two, has options for format conversion, and provides
a GUI. So once again -- copy, paste, click.

(Again, I presume you keep it open, otherwise it's slightly more than
copy, paste, click.) Have you a link to it? I'll have a look at it. Does
it work for sites _other_ than just YT (as yt-dlp does, despite the
name), and can it _not_ do format conversion if I don't want? (I'll see
for myself if you have a link.)

Post by Newyana2
My desktop has maybe 30 VBScripts and 10 HTAs. They do
various things that I've found I want to do more than once.
Some are quite complicated, like my javascript de-obfuscator.
Others do things like fix carriage returns in unix files.

I think I've used several of your utilities in the past.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove
that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are
right. -H.L. Mencken, writer, editor, and critic (1880-1956)

Newyana2

2024-03-07 12:34:21 UTC

"J. P. Gilliver" <***@255soft.uk> wrote

| (Again, I presume you keep it open, otherwise it's slightly more than
| copy, paste, click.)

Ah, you caught me. Yes, I have to double-click first,
to open the HTA. Then I rest up, then copy and paste. :)

I haven't actually used it for quite awhile. The latest
versions don't work on XP and keep hanging on Win7.
3DYD has neither problem.

J. P. Gilliver

2024-03-07 17:03:21 UTC

Post by Newyana2
| (Again, I presume you keep it open, otherwise it's slightly more than
| copy, paste, click.)
Ah, you caught me. Yes, I have to double-click first,
to open the HTA. Then I rest up, then copy and paste. :)
I haven't actually used it for quite awhile. The latest
versions don't work on XP and keep hanging on Win7.
3DYD has neither problem.

Now having a look at 3DYD. Did you know it forbids accessing
pornographic content? (-: [https://www.3dyd.com/terms/, which you agree
to during installation!]

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Bother," said Pooh, as Windows crashed into piglet.

Newyana2

2024-03-07 23:34:39 UTC

"J. P. Gilliver" <***@255soft.uk> wrote

| Now having a look at 3DYD. Did you know it forbids accessing
| pornographic content? (-: [https://www.3dyd.com/terms/, which you agree
| to during installation!]

I don't remember installing it. There is an EULA in the folder,
but no sign of porn warnings in it.

J. P. Gilliver

2024-03-08 00:13:32 UTC

Post by Newyana2
| Now having a look at 3DYD. Did you know it forbids accessing
| pornographic content? (-: [https://www.3dyd.com/terms/, which you agree
| to during installation!]
I don't remember installing it. There is an EULA in the folder,
but no sign of porn warnings in it.

Not in the EULA itself, but one of the terms of the EULA (term 6 IIRR)
is that you'll comply with the above online EULA, and that _does_ have
that condition.

I've now installed 3dyd, and the first YT URL I tried it on - a quite
innocent one - failed.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

when people say they're perfectly happy without children, we don't have to
presume they're lying! - Paul Dolan, RT 2015/1/3-9

Newyana2

2024-03-08 11:42:21 UTC

"J. P. Gilliver" <***@255soft.uk> wrote

| I've now installed 3dyd, and the first YT URL I tried it on - a quite
| innocent one - failed.

Interesting. It works fine for me, while yt-dlp keeps
hanging. Though of course it's not unusual to find that
something has been removed due to copyright complaint,
or perhaps just housecleaning. I've never seen anything
that always works.

J. P. Gilliver

2024-03-08 13:35:01 UTC

Post by Newyana2
| I've now installed 3dyd, and the first YT URL I tried it on - a quite
| innocent one - failed.
Interesting. It works fine for me, while yt-dlp keeps
hanging. Though of course it's not unusual to find that
something has been removed due to copyright complaint,
or perhaps just housecleaning. I've never seen anything
that always works.

I tried it again today. Still failed (but yt-dlp worked fine)!

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

A clean, neat and orderly desk is a sign of a sick mind. (G6JPG's mind is
clearly extremely healthy ...)

g***@aol.com

2024-03-09 04:58:34 UTC

Not in the EULA itself, but one of the terms of the EULA (term 6 IIRR)
is that you'll comply with the above online EULA, and that _does_ have
that condition.
I've now installed 3dyd, and the first YT URL I tried it on - a quite
innocent one - failed.

I use Wonderfox HD Converter and it will let you download anything it
can read.

J. P. Gilliver

2024-03-09 06:24:30 UTC

[]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
I've now installed 3dyd, and the first YT URL I tried it on - a quite
innocent one - failed.

I use Wonderfox HD Converter and it will let you download anything it
can read.

I can't remember the last time yt-dlp didn't work for me (I think it
might have been a vimeo page).

"Converter" suggests that's its primary purpose - can Wonderfox download
_without_ doing any conversion?

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Bother," said Pooh, as he fell off the bridge with his stick.

Paul

2024-03-09 12:03:34 UTC

[]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
I've now installed 3dyd, and the first YT URL I tried it on - a quite
innocent one - failed.

I use Wonderfox HD Converter and it will let you download anything it
can read.

I can't remember the last time yt-dlp didn't work for me (I think it might have been a vimeo page).
"Converter" suggests that's its primary purpose - can Wonderfox download _without_ doing any conversion?

You would check to see if any formats offered by the server,
already have both a video and audio stream in a file. That
could be consumed without further work.

When piecing together a video stream, a separate file for audio stream, those must
be re-muxed to make a fully-capable movie file (that's a conversion, but a lossless
one). If the video stream or audio stream don't fit in the container type the tool
somehow proposes, then a conversion would be called for.

For example, say the tool is stupid and keeps trying to make .avi files.
If that were the case, both a video conversion, and audio conversion,
and a re-mux might be required.

My news site already has .mp4 files, which are ready to go, so an FFMPEG call
would not be needed. Whatever it serves when streaming, is not compatible
with my browser, and they're using Widevine DRM on the streaming option.
They play about four seconds of content, and then play one minute of advertising,
then switch back to the remainder of the content (dogs playing cards).

Paul

J. P. Gilliver

2024-03-09 21:18:00 UTC

Post by J. P. Gilliver
I've now installed 3dyd, and the first YT URL I tried it on - a quite
innocent one - failed.

I use Wonderfox HD Converter and it will let you download anything it
can read.

I can't remember the last time yt-dlp didn't work for me (I think it
might have been a vimeo page).
"Converter" suggests that's its primary purpose - can Wonderfox
download _without_ doing any conversion?

You would check to see if any formats offered by the server,
already have both a video and audio stream in a file. That
could be consumed without further work.

Nearly all of my downloads are from YouTube, which seems to have a lot
of formats, including lots that contain both. I let yt-dlp make up its
own mind, and I usually get something with 720 vertical resolution if
it's a recent clip, or 3xx if it isn't.
[]

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Chopsticks are one of the reasons the Chinese never invented custard
(Spike Milligan)

Paul

2024-03-09 23:15:52 UTC

[]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
I've now installed 3dyd, and the first YT URL I tried it on - a quite
innocent one - failed.

I use Wonderfox HD Converter and it will let you download anything it
can read.

I can't remember the last time yt-dlp didn't work for me (I think it might have been a vimeo page).
"Converter" suggests that's its primary purpose - can Wonderfox download _without_ doing any conversion?

You would check to see if any formats offered by the server,
already have both a video and audio stream in a file. That
could be consumed without further work.

Nearly all of my downloads are from YouTube, which seems to have a lot of formats, including lots that contain both. I let yt-dlp make up its own mind, and I usually get something with 720 vertical resolution if it's a recent clip, or 3xx if it isn't.
[]

That seems a rather modest choice for a "best" :-)

Maybe only the paying customers see the full list ?

Paul

J. P. Gilliver

2024-03-10 04:06:42 UTC

[]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
Nearly all of my downloads are from YouTube, which seems to have a
lot of formats, including lots that contain both. I let yt-dlp make up
its own mind, and I usually get something with 720 vertical resolution
if it's a recent clip, or 3xx if it isn't.
[]

That seems a rather modest choice for a "best" :-)

Agreed; however, since this screen (laptop) is 1366 × 768, I'm happy
with that. (In fact the processor/graphics card combination struggles to
display two sizes up from that.)

Post by Paul
Maybe only the paying customers see the full list ?
Paul

No, when I've used the -F option to see what are available, higher
resolutions _are_ available. So my believe that it defaults to the best
available is obviously wrong - but as I say, 720 (or so) suits this
screen anyway.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

... the pleasure of the mind is an amazing thing. My life has been driven by
the satisfaction of curiosity. - Jeremy Paxman (being interviewed by Anne
Widdecombe), Radio Times, 2-8 July 2011.

Newyana2

2024-03-10 13:05:25 UTC

"J. P. Gilliver" <***@255soft.uk> wrote

| >That seems a rather modest choice for a "best" :-)
|
| Agreed; however, since this screen (laptop) is 1366 × 768, I'm happy
| with that. (In fact the processor/graphics card combination struggles to
| display two sizes up from that.)
| >
| >Maybe only the paying customers see the full list ?
| >

I think that 3dyd offers options for resolution and format.
I don't pay any attention unless a download is not viewable.
Then I send 3dyd back to convert to something I can view.

We have two TVs. Both are 720p. My monitor is 900h.
Like you, I don't see an issue. If I'm downloading a lecture
or a comedy clip, I don't need porn-quality resolution.
And I wouldn't notice, anyway.

The obsession with paying thousands of dollars for 4K TVs
reminds me of high school, when the parents of rich kinds could
be convinced that $3000 worth of quadraphonic speakers
were necessary to listen to Black Sabbath.

J. P. Gilliver

2024-03-10 13:32:39 UTC

So, of course, does yt-dlp - you run it with the -F option to see what's
on offer (usually 10-20 formats from YouTube!, though that includes
audio-only and video-only options), then with the -f option to select
the one you want if other than the default.

Post by Newyana2
I don't pay any attention unless a download is not viewable.

More or less same here.

Post by Newyana2
Then I send 3dyd back to convert to something I can view.

Convert, or fetch? (I have at least two - free - utilities that'll
convert; I don't _think_ yt-dlp will do conversion [though I could be
wrong there, it's very versatile], but I can tell it to _fetch_ one of
the other formats on offer.)

(3dyd hasn't worked for me yet, but I admit I've given it very little
chance; basically, when it doesn't work, I go back to y, for which I
have muscle memory.)

Post by Newyana2
We have two TVs. Both are 720p. My monitor is 900h.
Like you, I don't see an issue. If I'm downloading a lecture
or a comedy clip, I don't need porn-quality resolution.
And I wouldn't notice, anyway.

And they eat up disc space like anything. I know plenty of people will
say that doesn't matter nowadays, and I am not really aware of running
short, but the big files do take longer to move around or - really - do
anything with.

Post by Newyana2
The obsession with paying thousands of dollars for 4K TVs
reminds me of high school, when the parents of rich kinds could
be convinced that $3000 worth of quadraphonic speakers
were necessary to listen to Black Sabbath.

Each to his own. Viewing _angle_ also needs considering: whether the
resolution of the eyes in use (which is measured in angle, not pixels)
can actually _see_ the difference. At my normal viewing _angle_, I don't
_think_ I'd see even HD on my main set (which isn't HD); I have a
smaller set which is 720, but I view it closer, so the angle is about
the same. The biggest _angle_ by far is this laptop - 1366 × 768 - which
I view from I think about one to two feet (I think it's a "fifteen inch"
screen, though it makes me laugh that we still measure the diagonal,
which dates from when they were round-bottomed flasks!). There, I
definitely _do_ see the difference between 7xx and 3xx. (And
_sometimes_, I feel material at 1xxx _looks_ better, though I'm not sure
why as I can't display those pixels!)

I don't think I've ever yet displayed downloaded material on either of
my TVs; I watch it on the laptop.

Those who pay lots for big TVs _do_ derive pleasure from them - some
just psychological, some not. Quite how much source material is
available in 4K (or above), I don't know; I don't think a lot is
_broadcast_ (terrestrial or satellite), but then I _know_ I'm
old-fashioned in considering broadcast anyway: online is I fear the way
things are going. Does Blu-Ray give you 4K, or just HD? I presume _some_
streaming material is available in 4K, though I presume you need a good
link for that!

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

They are public servants, so we will threat them rather as Flashman treats
servants. - Stephen Fry on some people's attitudo to the BBC, in Radio Times,
3-9 July 2010

Paul

2024-03-10 15:38:10 UTC

Post by Newyana2
| >That seems a rather modest choice for a "best" :-)
|
| Agreed; however, since this screen (laptop) is 1366 × 768, I'm happy
| with that. (In fact the processor/graphics card combination struggles to
| display two sizes up from that.)
| >
| >Maybe only the paying customers see the full list ?
| >
I think that 3dyd offers options for resolution and format.
I don't pay any attention unless a download is not viewable.
Then I send 3dyd back to convert to something I can view.
We have two TVs. Both are 720p. My monitor is 900h.
Like you, I don't see an issue. If I'm downloading a lecture
or a comedy clip, I don't need porn-quality resolution.
And I wouldn't notice, anyway.
The obsession with paying thousands of dollars for 4K TVs
reminds me of high school, when the parents of rich kinds could
be convinced that $3000 worth of quadraphonic speakers
were necessary to listen to Black Sabbath.

Hey, old timer, while you were asleep, the speaker-monkeys
have been busy. You're 20 speakers behind!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/22.2_surround_sound

It even has two subs.

Years ago, we used to have technical arguments about one sub
versus two subs, at work. The theory says that humans cannot
directionalize subsonic sound. Well, that system, with
its LFE1 and LFE2, is proof we were wrong. The 2sub people won!

Cool or what.

After the speakers go up the walls, you can put some on the ceiling.

Loading Image...

One thing I notice about the Speaker People, is they all have small TV sets :-)
"They spent it all on Speakers"

Paul

J. P. Gilliver

2024-03-10 18:22:41 UTC

In message <uskk53$31g1k$***@dont-email.me> at Sun, 10 Mar 2024 11:38:10,
Paul <***@needed.invalid> writes
[]

Hey, old timer, while you were asleep, the speaker-monkeys
have been busy. You're 20 speakers behind!!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/22.2_surround_sound
It even has two subs.
Years ago, we used to have technical arguments about one sub
versus two subs, at work. The theory says that humans cannot
directionalize subsonic sound. Well, that system, with
its LFE1 and LFE2, is proof we were wrong. The 2sub people won!

No, it just proves that the people who want to sell speakers (and
amplifiers) were more persuasive.

Post by Paul
Cool or what.
After the speakers go up the walls, you can put some on the ceiling.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/2017_03_31_Dolby_Atm
os_Studio_TVN_Group.jpg
One thing I notice about the Speaker People, is they all have small TV sets :-)
"They spent it all on Speakers"

[]
(-:

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

My movies rise below vulgarity. - Mel Brooks, quoted by Barry Norman in RT
2016/11/26-12/2

Newyana2

2024-03-11 02:41:58 UTC

"Paul" <***@needed.invalid> wrote

| Hey, old timer, while you were asleep, the speaker-monkeys
| have been busy. You're 20 speakers behind!!!
|

I guess I'm just not much of a connoisseur. I had a Radio
Shack casette deck on which I happily played Jethro Tull
until my parents started yelling.

Today I download old movies with the likes of Gary Cooper
or Cary Grant, in 640x480, and stream them to a 32" 720p
TV. They look great to me. Though I think the library DVD
versions probably render the B/W films better. With a good
movie I just forget to notice.

g***@aol.com

2024-03-10 06:25:41 UTC

Post by J. P. Gilliver
I've now installed 3dyd, and the first YT URL I tried it on - a quite
innocent one - failed.

I use Wonderfox HD Converter and it will let you download anything it
can read.

I can't remember the last time yt-dlp didn't work for me (I think it
might have been a vimeo page).
"Converter" suggests that's its primary purpose - can Wonderfox download
_without_ doing any conversion?

I am not sure how it works to be honest but you can select the output
format you like. The default is probably what it sees tho.
This program does way more than I ever do, make GIFs and such and you
can convert anything to anything. GIGO does apply tho and I know every
conversion loses a little something. I think you can run it in screen
capture mode and copy anything you can see for those hard to get along
with sites. I never tried it tho.

J. P. Gilliver

2024-03-10 12:43:23 UTC

[]

Post by g***@aol.com
I use Wonderfox HD Converter and it will let you download anything it
can read.

[]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
"Converter" suggests that's its primary purpose - can Wonderfox download
_without_ doing any conversion?

Another poster has said it's $35-60, which I'm afraid I wouldn't pay
when there are free things that'd do most of the above. Not that I'm
dissing it: if you want to do what it does a lot, and it does it well or
easily or whatever, that's fine.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Who can refute a sneer? - Archdeacon Paley, in his book Moral Philosophy

g***@aol.com

2024-03-10 14:55:51 UTC

On Sun, 10 Mar 2024 12:43:23 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver"

Post by g***@aol.com
I use Wonderfox HD Converter and it will let you download anything it
can read.

[]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
"Converter" suggests that's its primary purpose - can Wonderfox download
_without_ doing any conversion?

I think that sometimes you really only get what you pay for. I have a
lot of freeware but at the time the free down loaders all came with
some deficiencies or were just crippled versions of programs you pay
for.

j***@astraweb.com

2024-03-28 19:42:40 UTC

Post by J. P. Gilliver
I've now installed 3dyd, and the first YT URL I tried it on - a quite
innocent one - failed.

I use Wonderfox HD Converter and it will let you download anything it
can read.

I can't remember the last time yt-dlp didn't work for me (I think it
might have been a vimeo page).

Occasionally, i have one fail on me.
I get something akin to "ERROR - unsupported URL, yada-yada"
I have a feeling that the owner does a redirect or re-creation (of the URL) that YTL-DP can't handle
(but that is just conjecture on my part). It is often on a Paid Access file.

I must look into this 3dyd.....

.

Post by J. P. Gilliver
"Converter" suggests that's its primary purpose - can Wonderfox download
_without_ doing any conversion?

Newyana2

2024-03-09 15:48:06 UTC

<***@aol.com> wrote

|
| I use Wonderfox HD Converter and it will let you download anything it
| can read.

Sounds good, but $35-60. That's a bit steep when there
are so many free tools.

g***@aol.com

2024-03-10 06:29:32 UTC

On Sat, 9 Mar 2024 10:48:06 -0500, "Newyana2"

Post by Newyana2
|
| I use Wonderfox HD Converter and it will let you download anything it
| can read.
Sounds good, but $35-60. That's a bit steep when there
are so many free tools.

I think I was on the $35 end of that scale, many years ago when I
bought it and they still keep supporting it with the latest version. I
have no problem with the support and they are good on the phone.

j***@astraweb.com

2024-03-31 03:11:22 UTC

https://www.3dyd.com/terms/

"Accessing pornographic content or such content that infringes any right in any other way is forbidden.
In case a third party right is already violated by downloading the content, the user bears complete
responsibility for this as he started the processing of the data in question."

must have a site blacklist in the .exe because it just refused a url for xhamster.com and still having
said url on the clipboard, i stuck it into yt-dlp which happily began downloading it until i canceled
with ctrl-c. 3dyd said: "no video found on xhamster.com" or something similar.

J. P. Gilliver

2024-03-31 09:00:30 UTC

We draw your attention to clause 8 therein!

Post by J. P. Gilliver
https://www.3dyd.com/terms/
"Accessing pornographic content or such content that infringes any
right in any other way is forbidden.
In case a third party right is already violated by downloading the
content, the user bears complete
responsibility for this as he started the processing of the data in question."
must have a site blacklist in the .exe because it just refused a url
for xhamster.com and still having

Interesting! [That will cause some people to go to the .exe and examine
it for a list of interesting sites! (-: (Though it's probably encoded.)]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
said url on the clipboard, i stuck it into yt-dlp which happily began
downloading it until i canceled
with ctrl-c. 3dyd said: "no video found on xhamster.com" or something similar.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Sarcasm: Barbed ire

j***@astraweb.com

2024-03-30 15:15:41 UTC

............................... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

LOL.

Post by Newyana2
I haven't actually used it for quite awhile. The latest
versions don't work on XP and keep hanging on Win7.
3DYD has neither problem.

j***@astraweb.com

2024-03-28 19:26:48 UTC

[]
While for backup I find Macrium - with its GUI - more than adequate for
my needs, I don't reject command-line for everything. Sometimes there's
a command-line utility that's just so much better than the GUI
alternatives.
I have two conflicting examples: ffmpeg is, I am sure, a very powerful
utility, for all sorts of audio and video conversions. However, I've got
several GUI utilities that I know are based on it - at least, they
include ffmpeg.exe (or similar) among the other files that come with
them. They do most of what I want - i. e. there, I agree: life's too
short. On the other hand, yt-dlp is IMO excellent at what it does, but
the odd GUI wrapper for it that I've tried don't cut the mustard, so I
use its command-line version (mainly without any parameters). I've
mostly got muscle memory - I leave a command window open, and have got
used to copying the URL, then "y space alt-space E P" to use it (I've
renamed it from yt-dlp to just y).

Using alt-space + E to activate the Window edit menu = clever

(I wrote an Autohotkey script that loads on startup to do the CTRL-V function on the command line when
called)

jim

J. P. Gilliver

2024-03-28 19:53:32 UTC

[]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
them. They do most of what I want - i. e. there, I agree: life's too
short. On the other hand, yt-dlp is IMO excellent at what it does, but
the odd GUI wrapper for it that I've tried don't cut the mustard, so I
use its command-line version (mainly without any parameters). I've
mostly got muscle memory - I leave a command window open, and have got
used to copying the URL, then "y space alt-space E P" to use it (I've
renamed it from yt-dlp to just y).

Using alt-space + E to activate the Window edit menu = clever

(Maybe being left-handed [I'm in UK, so don't have right-Alt] makes it
easier.)

Post by j***@astraweb.com
(I wrote an Autohotkey script that loads on startup to do the CTRL-V
function on the command line when
called)

Ctrl-V for paste doesn't work in the command window under 7, so I'd got
used to using the above method. (The Alt-Space menu has been there since
at least Windows 3.1, but few know about it these days!) I was
continuing to use it under W10 (where it still works) on someone else's
machine, though discovered that ^V _does_ work in the command window
under 10.

Post by j***@astraweb.com
jim

John

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Find out what works. Then do it. That's my system. I'm always surprised it
isn't more popular. - Scott Adams, 2015

j***@astraweb.com

2024-03-28 20:42:18 UTC

Post by j***@astraweb.com
(I wrote an Autohotkey script that loads on startup to do the CTRL-V
function on the command line when
called)

Ctrl-V for paste doesn't work in the command window under 7,

It does with

1. The autohotkey.exe
and
2. this script in startup

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FILE: C:\!rootstuff\ahk_scripts\cntrlv_cmd.ahk
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#IfWinActive ahk_class ConsoleWindowClass
^V::
SendInput {Raw}%clipboard%
return
#IfWinActive

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

jim

J. P. Gilliver

2024-03-28 20:52:57 UTC

Post by j***@astraweb.com
(I wrote an Autohotkey script that loads on startup to do the CTRL-V
function on the command line when
called)

Ctrl-V for paste doesn't work in the command window under 7,

It does with
1. The autohotkey.exe
and

[]
I don't have that file anywhere on my system.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

* SLMR 2.1a #113 * Tits like watermelons, sparrows like bacon rind.
- 03-22-97 Dave Beecham <***@pandbox.demon.co.uk> (quoted by
Gene Wirchenko, in alt.windows7.general, 2012-10-16.)

j***@astraweb.com

2024-03-29 18:32:53 UTC

Post by j***@astraweb.com
(I wrote an Autohotkey script that loads on startup to do the CTRL-V
function on the command line when
called)

Ctrl-V for paste doesn't work in the command window under 7,

It does with
1. The autohotkey.exe
and

[]
I don't have that file anywhere on my system.

https://www.autohotkey.com
AutoHotkey
AutoHotkey is a free, open-source scripting language for Windows that allows users to easily create
small to complex scripts for all kinds of tasks such as: form fillers, auto-clicking, macros, etc. LEARN
MORE.

J. P. Gilliver

2024-03-29 19:53:44 UTC

On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 19:53:32 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver"

[]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
Ctrl-V for paste doesn't work in the command window under 7,

It does with
1. The autohotkey.exe
and

[]
I don't have that file anywhere on my system.

https://www.autohotkey.com
AutoHotkey
AutoHotkey is a free, open-source scripting language for Windows that
allows users to easily create
small to complex scripts for all kinds of tasks such as: form fillers,
auto-clicking, macros, etc. LEARN
MORE.

Thanks. I downloaded and ran it, and copied the script from your earlier
post into a .ahk in my Startup folder. (Rather than restart, )I just
clicked on it, and got

It looks like the script you are trying to run requires
AutoHotkey v1, which is not installed.
If the version has been misidentified, please add a #Requires
directive to your script file.

Script: cntrlv_cmd.ahk
Rule: v1-dir v1-hk v1-send

which is all Greek to me.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

While no one was paying attention, weather reports became accurate and the
news became fiction. Did not see that coming. - Scott Adams, 2015

j***@astraweb.com

2024-03-30 16:00:50 UTC

On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 19:53:32 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver"

[]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
Ctrl-V for paste doesn't work in the command window under 7,

It does with
1. The autohotkey.exe
and

[]
I don't have that file anywhere on my system.

https://www.autohotkey.com
AutoHotkey
AutoHotkey is a free, open-source scripting language for Windows that
allows users to easily create
small to complex scripts for all kinds of tasks such as: form fillers,
auto-clicking, macros, etc. LEARN
MORE.

Thanks. I downloaded and ran it, and copied the script from your earlier
post into a .ahk in my Startup folder. (Rather than restart, )I just
clicked on it, and got
It looks like the script you are trying to run requires
AutoHotkey v1, which is not installed.
If the version has been misidentified, please add a #Requires
directive to your script file.
Script: cntrlv_cmd.ahk
Rule: v1-dir v1-hk v1-send
which is all Greek to me.

It's more of a cyrillic language to me. I must have lucked out and gotten the right software mix so
that it worked.

I suppose you have rebooted so that it is now running........

My task manager shows AutoHotKey.exe running

Also, 3dyd worked out of the box. I did some informal testing this morning and believe I will stick
with ytl-dp for the most part.

J. P. Gilliver

2024-03-30 17:00:43 UTC

On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 20:52:57 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver"

On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 19:53:32 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver"

[]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
Ctrl-V for paste doesn't work in the command window under 7,

It does with
1. The autohotkey.exe
and

[]
I don't have that file anywhere on my system.

https://www.autohotkey.com
AutoHotkey
AutoHotkey is a free, open-source scripting language for Windows that
allows users to easily create
small to complex scripts for all kinds of tasks such as: form fillers,
auto-clicking, macros, etc. LEARN
MORE.

Thanks. I downloaded and ran it, and copied the script from your earlier
post into a .ahk in my Startup folder. (Rather than restart, )I just
clicked on it, and got
It looks like the script you are trying to run requires
AutoHotkey v1, which is not installed.
If the version has been misidentified, please add a #Requires
directive to your script file.
Script: cntrlv_cmd.ahk
Rule: v1-dir v1-hk v1-send
which is all Greek to me.

It's more of a cyrillic language to me. I must have lucked out and
gotten the right software mix so
that it worked.
I suppose you have rebooted so that it is now running........

No. I reboot once in a blue moon.

Post by j***@astraweb.com
My task manager shows AutoHotKey.exe running

Mine doesn't, presumably because of the above error (I'm assuming if the
.ahk file had "run" without error, I'd find AHK.exe running).

Post by j***@astraweb.com
Also, 3dyd worked out of the box. I did some informal testing this
morning and believe I will stick
with ytl-dp for the most part.

the
audio and video resolutions are the same, so I can't tell what I'm
getting for the extra 6M. I think I too will stick with y, but useful to
know 3 does work sometimes: I'll keep it to try when y doesn't. Or maybe
for very big files, as I think y may operate fewer streams at once.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

you can't blame boomers for everything. - Joe Queenan, RT 2023/6/24-30

j***@astraweb.com

2024-03-31 02:49:39 UTC

On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 20:52:57 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver"

On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 19:53:32 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver"

[]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
Ctrl-V for paste doesn't work in the command window under 7,

It does with
1. The autohotkey.exe
and

[]
I don't have that file anywhere on my system.

https://www.autohotkey.com
AutoHotkey
AutoHotkey is a free, open-source scripting language for Windows that
allows users to easily create
small to complex scripts for all kinds of tasks such as: form fillers,
auto-clicking, macros, etc. LEARN
MORE.

Thanks. I downloaded and ran it, and copied the script from your earlier
post into a .ahk in my Startup folder. (Rather than restart, )I just
clicked on it, and got
It looks like the script you are trying to run requires
AutoHotkey v1, which is not installed.
If the version has been misidentified, please add a #Requires
directive to your script file.
Script: cntrlv_cmd.ahk
Rule: v1-dir v1-hk v1-send
which is all Greek to me.

It's more of a cyrillic language to me. I must have lucked out and
gotten the right software mix so
that it worked.
I suppose you have rebooted so that it is now running........

No. I reboot once in a blue moon.

Post by j***@astraweb.com
My task manager shows AutoHotKey.exe running

Mine doesn't, presumably because of the above error (I'm assuming if the
.ahk file had "run" without error, I'd find AHK.exe running).

Post by j***@astraweb.com
Also, 3dyd worked out of the box. I did some informal testing this
morning and believe I will stick
with ytl-dp for the most part.

Just trying again - it failed with a twitter page, but this time
succeeded with a YouTube one! Didn't put it where I wanted, and I can't
see anywhere to set that (only where to put temporary files). It has
created a 17M file whereas last time (presumably I used yt-dlp) was an
11M file (from http://youtu.be/rnLnwWjrIyk the
audio and video resolutions are the same, so I can't tell what I'm
getting for the extra 6M. I think I too will stick with y, but useful to
know 3 does work sometimes: I'll keep it to try when y doesn't. Or maybe
for very big files, as I think y may operate fewer streams at once.

At startup i load 2 .ahk files, but the native taskmngr application shows two instances of
autohotkey.exe running as processes -- not the scripts. (I also use the startup folder.)
Autohotkey.exe is where it was originally installed in C:\PROGRAM FILES

---

I also had size differences on youtube downloads between 3dyd and yt-dlp

J. P. Gilliver

2024-03-31 08:25:17 UTC

In message <***@4ax.com> at Sat, 30 Mar
2024 22:49:39, ***@astraweb.com writes
[]

Post by j***@astraweb.com
At startup i load 2 .ahk files, but the native taskmngr application shows two instances of
autohotkey.exe running as processes -- not the scripts. (I also use the startup folder.)

(Yes, it seemed the obvious place for it.) I guess if it had run without
the error, I _would_ have AHK.exe as a running process. I guess I could
go back to the AHK website and get version 1, but I think I'll just
stick with alt-space E P - I do that by muscle memory now.

Post by j***@astraweb.com
Autohotkey.exe is where it was originally installed in C:\PROGRAM FILES

Mine's in C:\Program Files\AutoHotkey\v2\AutoHotkey.exe - where I
presume it installed itself.

Post by j***@astraweb.com
---
I also had size differences on youtube downloads between 3dyd and yt-dlp

Interesting!
I've left 3dyd installed as a reserve downloader.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Sarcasm: Barbed ire

j***@astraweb.com

2024-03-31 11:03:16 UTC

Post by J. P. Gilliver
I think I'll just
stick with alt-space E P - I do that by muscle memory now.

nice term for what I call "instilled instinct" and I most often apply that term to driving: braking or
obstacle avoidance. That is, a description of something that bypasses conscious thought and decision
making and simply "happens" when presented with the stimulus.

J. P. Gilliver

2024-03-31 20:43:35 UTC

Post by J. P. Gilliver
I think I'll just
stick with alt-space E P - I do that by muscle memory now.

nice term for what I call "instilled instinct" and I most often apply
that term to driving: braking or
obstacle avoidance. That is, a description of something that bypasses
conscious thought and decision
making and simply "happens" when presented with the stimulus.

Yes, and a lot of driving with a manual gearbox (transmission) too. I
didn't invent the term: it's one I've seen a lot in the context of
computer stuff, for things that one has done for a long time. Walking is
another one (if you actually try to describe walking, you'll fall over).

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

It's a beta orgy, not a product. - Mayayana in alt.windows7.general, 2018-3-8

Frank Slootweg

2024-03-29 15:38:45 UTC

Using alt-space + E to activate the Window edit menu = clever

(Maybe being left-handed [I'm in UK, so don't have right-Alt] makes it
easier.)

Post by j***@astraweb.com
(I wrote an Autohotkey script that loads on startup to do the CTRL-V
function on the command line when
called)

I don't know what exactly you are doing, but if it's about pasting in
a Command Prompt window, that's also possible with a right-click. I.e.
copy some text from somewhere and paste it with a right-click.

For that to work, you have to set 'QuickEdit Mode' in the Properties
of the Command Prompt window (and make it stick).

Windows 10 has indeed a setting to enable Ctrl+Shift+V (note Shift)
pasting, but right-click pasting has been there since Vista and perhaps
XP.

N.B. Copying in QuickEdit Mode works by highlighting (I use the
'mouse' for that) and then pressing the 'enter' key.

J. P. Gilliver

2024-03-29 19:31:17 UTC

In message <***@ID-201911.user.individual.net> at Fri, 29 Mar
2024 15:38:45, Frank Slootweg <***@ddress.is.invalid> writes
[]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
Ctrl-V for paste doesn't work in the command window under 7, so I'd got
used to using the above method. (The Alt-Space menu has been there since
at least Windows 3.1, but few know about it these days!) I was
continuing to use it under W10 (where it still works) on someone else's
machine, though discovered that ^V _does_ work in the command window
under 10.

I had that mode set, and sure enough, right-click does work! I'll try to
remember that. Though may try the autohotkey method too, as if I'm using
the keyboard anyway, I don't want to switch to the "mouse".
[]

Post by Frank Slootweg
N.B. Copying in QuickEdit Mode works by highlighting (I use the
'mouse' for that) and then pressing the 'enter' key.

Yes. I do use that sometimes, but find it very non-intuitive!

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

what - recession? Up north? What we gonna have - more nowt?
(News Quiz 2013-7-26)

Frank Slootweg

2024-03-29 20:27:52 UTC

Yes, depending on the situation, I use the keyboard or keyboard+mouse.

For example both my newsreader (tin) and editor (vim) are keyboard
driven, so when reading/posting news, I mostly use the keyboard, not the
mouse. The only mousing is for selecting/'highlighting' some text, but
even that can often be done with the keyboard.

Post by Frank Slootweg
N.B. Copying in QuickEdit Mode works by highlighting (I use the
'mouse' for that) and then pressing the 'enter' key.

Yes. I do use that sometimes, but find it very non-intuitive!

You can say that again, very, very, non-intuitive! But if Newyana2
isn't watching, we get away with it! :-)

j***@astraweb.com

2024-03-31 12:31:49 UTC

Using alt-space + E to activate the Window edit menu = clever

(Maybe being left-handed [I'm in UK, so don't have right-Alt] makes it
easier.)

Post by j***@astraweb.com
(I wrote an Autohotkey script that loads on startup to do the CTRL-V
function on the command line when
called)

I don't know what exactly you are doing, but if it's about pasting in
a Command Prompt window, that's also possible with a right-click. I.e.
copy some text from somewhere and paste it with a right-click.
For that to work, you have to set 'QuickEdit Mode' in the Properties
of the Command Prompt window (and make it stick).
Windows 10 has indeed a setting to enable Ctrl+Shift+V (note Shift)
pasting, but right-click pasting has been there since Vista and perhaps
XP.
N.B. Copying in QuickEdit Mode works by highlighting (I use the
'mouse' for that) and then pressing the 'enter' key.

Interesting. It works just as you said. I was previously unaware of that.

cmd-window --> properties --> Options -->
check box next to "Quikedit Mode"

g***@aol.com

2024-03-05 13:14:13 UTC

Post by Java Jive

... only ...

Post by Newyana2
be on
the computer and it doesn't need updated data. The data
can be backed up separately.

... with the above correction I can agree with you. It makes some sense
to have your latest disk-image backup of your system drive on your data
+ It will be backed up automatically by your usual data backup regime;
+ Restoration is quicker than it would be over a network.

I have a "backup" mirrored set on both of my production machines that
gets synched with the offline backup regularly. It is a pair of
separate drives but I also understand an encryption pirate would
encrypt them too so I keep copies offline.

g***@aol.com

2024-03-05 07:27:19 UTC

On Mon, 4 Mar 2024 08:14:17 -0500, "Newyana2"

Post by Newyana2
| Ah, "I like it automatic" explains why Acronis "stopped working" for
| you: I presume by "automatic", you mean it runs under Windows. (Macrium
| will indeed do that for you too, including - as I think most of them
| will, even the free versions - deleting the oldest image when necessary
| to make space for the newest).
|
| The trouble with relying on automatic is that unless you check, you
| don't know if it has stopped working.
Another issue is that that approach is not really disk image backup.
It's just backup, like the idea of a RAID array. If you get, for example,
a power surge that takes out your drives then you're out of luck,
because you don't actually have a stored disk image. There's also
the possibility of corruption or malware getting spread to backup.
There's nothing wrong with RAID approach, but people shouldn't
mistake that for disk image backup.

I frequently copy my images and other stuff I care about to an offline
drive (rotating 2 drives)

Frank Slootweg

2024-03-04 13:48:04 UTC

Ah, "I like it automatic" explains why Acronis "stopped working" for
you: I presume by "automatic", you mean it runs under Windows. (Macrium
will indeed do that for you too, including - as I think most of them
will, even the free versions - deleting the oldest image when necessary
to make space for the newest).
The trouble with relying on automatic is that unless you check, you
don't know if it has stopped working. If you're good at doing that sort
of checking, fine; automatic (assuming it actually makes a valid image
when running under Windows) certainly is less bother, as you can
schedule it to run when you're not using the machine, such as (for most
people) in the small hours. You're at the mercy of Windows updates, i.
e. the possibility that one of them will stop it working; this thread is
in the W7 newsgroup so that won't bother us, but 10 (and 11 and ...) may
be different.

'automatic' is probably Scheduled Backups and for Scheduled Backups,
Macrium Reflect can send e-mail on Failure, Warning and Success, so I
don't see how that can result in "unless you check, you don't know if it
has stopped working". So unless Macrium Reflect stops working
alltogether, without any errors, I see no problem with 'automatic'.

[...]

J. P. Gilliver

2024-03-04 18:30:29 UTC

Ah, "I like it automatic" explains why Acronis "stopped working" for

[]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
The trouble with relying on automatic is that unless you check, you
don't know if it has stopped working. If you're good at doing that sort

[]

Post by Frank Slootweg
'automatic' is probably Scheduled Backups and for Scheduled Backups,
Macrium Reflect can send e-mail on Failure, Warning and Success, so I
don't see how that can result in "unless you check, you don't know if it
has stopped working". So unless Macrium Reflect stops working
alltogether, without any errors, I see no problem with 'automatic'.

I didn't know about its emailing abilities (or rather I'd forgotten
about them), but such an arrangement does still rely on you checking -
for the emails. I would also be concerned about the possibility of it
(or whatever's scheduling it) stopping as you describe.

But we are all different. What works for me, you, the OP, etc., will all
be different in one way or another.

Frank Slootweg

2024-03-04 19:28:22 UTC

Ah, "I like it automatic" explains why Acronis "stopped working" for

[]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
The trouble with relying on automatic is that unless you check, you
don't know if it has stopped working. If you're good at doing that sort

[]

I didn't know about its emailing abilities (or rather I'd forgotten
about them), but such an arrangement does still rely on you checking -
for the emails.

The emails will arrive in your Inbox. You *do* check your Inbox once
in a while, don't you!? :-) With something like Thunderbird, you can Tag
them with a colour, like nice flashy red. If that's not enough
notification, you might as well throw the whole thing out of the window!
:-)

Post by J. P. Gilliver
I would also be concerned about the possibility of it
(or whatever's scheduling it) stopping as you describe.

For those kinds of things, you can make a 'watchdog' (for example a
.bat script). I have such a thing for a service which sometimes refuses/
refuses to start at startup.

But we are all different. What works for me, you, the OP, etc., will all
be different in one way or another.

Very true. You feel comfortable with your offline method. Good on you.

J. P. Gilliver

2024-03-04 20:12:52 UTC

Ah, "I like it automatic" explains why Acronis "stopped working" for

[]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
The trouble with relying on automatic is that unless you check, you
don't know if it has stopped working. If you're good at doing that sort

[]

I didn't know about its emailing abilities (or rather I'd forgotten
about them), but such an arrangement does still rely on you checking -
for the emails.

Presumably you're talking about setting it to send "failed" emails. If
it just stops altogether, you won't get them.

Post by J. P. Gilliver
I would also be concerned about the possibility of it
(or whatever's scheduling it) stopping as you describe.

For those kinds of things, you can make a 'watchdog' (for example a
.bat script). I have such a thing for a service which sometimes refuses/
refuses to start at startup.

So you're relying on your watchdog running ... (-:

(Aside:) a colleague once included the programming of a watchdog into
something he was working on; the comments in his code included, IIRR,
"feed dog", "empty dish", and similar! (But then he had a fine sense of
humour; I think he once contrived to have a line of code similar to "if
overflow, go to loo, else go to bed".)

But we are all different. What works for me, you, the OP, etc., will all
be different in one way or another.

Very true. You feel comfortable with your offline method. Good on you.

Not _entirely_, as my portable drive is often in the same premises as
the computer. As for remembering to do it, I use a reminder software
with a snooze button, so I _am_ reminded to do it, but if I put it off,
I get nagged after the (selectable) snooze interval. (The software is
https://www.splinterware.com/products/scheduler.html - I know there's
something built in to Windows 7 and later [though I don't know if it has
a snooze function], but I'd got used to that from XP, and find it easy
to use. I have it for all sorts of reminders, such as dental
appointments.)

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Actors are fairly modest...A lot of us have quite a lot to be modest about. -
Simon Greenall (voice of Aleksandr the "Simples!" Meerkat), RT 11-17 Dec 2010

Frank Slootweg

2024-03-04 20:41:15 UTC

Ah, "I like it automatic" explains why Acronis "stopped working" for

[]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
The trouble with relying on automatic is that unless you check, you
don't know if it has stopped working. If you're good at doing that sort

[]

I didn't know about its emailing abilities (or rather I'd forgotten
about them), but such an arrangement does still rely on you checking -
for the emails.

Presumably you're talking about setting it to send "failed" emails. If
it just stops altogether, you won't get them.

Yes.

Post by J. P. Gilliver
I would also be concerned about the possibility of it
(or whatever's scheduling it) stopping as you describe.

For those kinds of things, you can make a 'watchdog' (for example a
.bat script). I have such a thing for a service which sometimes refuses/
refuses to start at startup.

Yes, Macrium Reflect (totally) failing *and* my watchdog failing at
the same time, is a risk I'm quite willing to take. :-)

FWIW, my service-watchdog has not yet failed in years (a decade?).
<knocks on head>.

[...]

But we are all different. What works for me, you, the OP, etc., will all
be different in one way or another.

Very true. You feel comfortable with your offline method. Good on you.

Yes, I've a similar thing, 'Desktop-Reminder 2'. Coming to think of
it, I probably should write a watchdog for it, because if it fails, I'm
in deep <excrements>! :-)

BTW, one of my reminders (called 'tasks' in Desktop-Reminder 2) is
labeled 'Switch offsite backups'. You can probably guess what that's
for.

Char Jackson

2024-03-05 00:27:36 UTC

Post by J. P. Gilliver
I didn't know about its emailing abilities (or rather I'd forgotten
about them), but such an arrangement does still rely on you checking -
for the emails.

Presumably you're talking about setting it to send "failed" emails. If
it just stops altogether, you won't get them.

I always configure Macrium Reflect to send emails for each of its 3 statuses,
Success, Warning, and Failure. Further, I configure it to attach its two log
files to the Warning and Failure emails so I can see what's going on.

In addition to a desktop PC and two laptops in my house, I'm responsible for two
of my sisters, or rather their laptops. I configured each of them to store
their backups on my disk pool, if it's available (via the Internet), with
fallback to local storage. It's been a couple of years with no problems so far.
One of my favorite features is that storage capability where you specify a
primary location, and a secondary to be used only if the primary is unavailable.

g***@aol.com

2024-03-05 07:20:32 UTC

Ah, "I like it automatic" explains why Acronis "stopped working" for
you: I presume by "automatic", you mean it runs under Windows. (Macrium
will indeed do that for you too, including - as I think most of them
will, even the free versions - deleting the oldest image when necessary
to make space for the newest).
The trouble with relying on automatic is that unless you check, you
don't know if it has stopped working. If you're good at doing that sort
of checking, fine; automatic (assuming it actually makes a valid image
when running under Windows) certainly is less bother, as you can
schedule it to run when you're not using the machine, such as (for most
people) in the small hours. You're at the mercy of Windows updates, i.
e. the possibility that one of them will stop it working; this thread is
in the W7 newsgroup so that won't bother us, but 10 (and 11 and ...) may
be different.

Post by Paul in Houston TX
also clone. Especially on the work comps. If something goes wrong
with a drive I can swap to the clone and be back in operation in just a
few minutes.

That does require you to have multiple drives. If some of your computers
are for your work, then that's reasonable.

Post by Paul in Houston TX
I also use FreeFileSync for the data files. IMO, it's a great program, too.

I have a cabinet full of drives so that is not an issue. I used to use
the Maxtor disk wizard, a stand alone program and it would work if any
Maxtor drive reported, even if it wouldn't come ready. Back in the
IDE days that was easy if you had a spare address. (1 of 4).
I do look at my archive occasionally just to see how I am doing. So
far the Acronis always worked for me. I also have several old C:
drives with whatever was on them when I took them out so as long as I
still have that machine (driver stuff) they are hot spares, even if I
am setting the Wayback machine.
I did find one interesting thing. Running the OEM W/7 load, I had a
couple of identical Dells and I just built one up, cloned the drive
and put it in the other one, it worked fine.
The same deal worked on identical HP laptops with W/10, upgraded to 11
and that shocked me. I thought there was some kind of hardware
verification. Both machines did have valid COAs tho. It may have had
something to do with having the MS account set up. It is all a
mystery to me.
I know W/7 and XP are both in "We don't care anymore" category at MS.
They seem to authorize anything with a good 25 digit hash, even if you
use the same one on different machines.

Paul

2024-03-05 13:56:14 UTC

Post by g***@aol.com
I have a cabinet full of drives so that is not an issue. I used to use
the Maxtor disk wizard, a stand alone program and it would work if any
Maxtor drive reported, even if it wouldn't come ready. Back in the
IDE days that was easy if you had a spare address. (1 of 4).
I do look at my archive occasionally just to see how I am doing. So
drives with whatever was on them when I took them out so as long as I
still have that machine (driver stuff) they are hot spares, even if I
am setting the Wayback machine.
I did find one interesting thing. Running the OEM W/7 load, I had a
couple of identical Dells and I just built one up, cloned the drive
and put it in the other one, it worked fine.
The same deal worked on identical HP laptops with W/10, upgraded to 11
and that shocked me. I thought there was some kind of hardware
verification. Both machines did have valid COAs tho. It may have had
something to do with having the MS account set up. It is all a
mystery to me.
I know W/7 and XP are both in "We don't care anymore" category at MS.
They seem to authorize anything with a good 25 digit hash, even if you
use the same one on different machines.

I occasionally run a Verify on my MRIMG files here, and
this activity *did* detect a problem. I was able to determine
the WinXP machine had bad RAM on it, just by using Macrium Verify.
After the RAM was changed out, the MRIMG files "became good again"
when I tested by making brand new ones and immediately doing Verify.

Running a Verify on any fresh ones at that point, they were good.

Verify is like Restore, only without Restoring. It's like
allowing the writes from the Restore, to go to /dev/null.

*******

Even if you did backups by using "dd" and you transferred
every stinking sector, you could do

sha1sum tuesday.bin

and generate a checksum when the backup was made. Then, a year
from now

sha1sum tuesday.bin

If the value has changed, the backup is now "bad".

If you were using a dumbass method like that, you can add
PAR2 blocks to "make a champ out of it". The situation
of the 1TB tuesday.bin file, is not hopeless. You can
design schemes to fix it.

An example of another dumb method

sha1sum tuesday-01.bin \___ Do two backups, record both checksums.
sha1sum tuesday-02.bin / if one copy goes bad, as long as the checksum
is good on the second one, you could use it.
Of course everyone keeps various variations on
this theme, and they don't rely on just one backup drive.

That's called redundancy, 1:1 redundancy. Whereas PAR2
is closer to a 1 for N strategy.

*******

When someone mentioned RAID here, you should not RAID SSD drives
without thinking carefully about what you're doing. Normal HDD
do not correlate on failure behavior. I can have one HDD drive
failing at 5000 hours, another HDD drive failing at 50000 hours.
If I do a RAID1 mirror, there's no chance both drives will fail
on the same day.

Whereas with two brand new SSDs which are otherwise identical,
everything they do tends to correlate with their brother. And
if the write life of drive 1 blew out on Tuesday, the write life
of drive 2 could happen on Tuesday evening (now I'm screwed).

RAID was never intended as a backup. Not even close. On SSDs,
without mixing models and brands, the situation is very bad.
Whereas with HDD, the Markov chain analysis is "normal".
Things follow normal statistics with two HDD, even if they
are identical models.

Paul

Charlie+

2024-03-03 07:21:52 UTC

Safest way if you want to continue with Acronis is to use the boot disk
iso, either on CD or make a usb. The modern Acronis versions get into
eveything (like AV) and you take a performance hit, difficult to clean
out too!. Macrium works but I found it a little easier to make mistakes
with and some USB backup/restores it cant do YVMD.. C+

Java Jive

2024-03-03 12:44:50 UTC

With both Linux & Windows, I split storage into two partitions, one for
the system and one for data, and the system partitions are backed up by
imaging software onto the data partitions, and the data partitions are
backed up by rsync or derivatives thereof onto the NAS, including any
new system partition images thereon.

With Linux, the system partitions are backed up by Clonezilla onto the
data partitions, which are then backed up by rsync onto the NAS.

Similarly, the Windows partitions are backed up by various versions of
Ghost onto the Data partitions, and thence by DeltaCopy - a cygwin
implementation of rsync - onto the NAS.

My earliest legacy Windows machines are running XP, and for those I use
Ghost v2003 on various USB sticks which boot into DOS-mode W98. The
process I created is entirely automated after some initial choices are
made during the boot menu, which allow imaging or cloning disks either
locally or over the network.

For Win7, I used to use the above XP system quite happily, but started
to encounter problems when either a new disk greater than 1TB was
installed, or a system partition was upgraded to Win10, and now I use
the Win10 variant below for Win7 system partitions as well.

For Win10 I've copied the 64-bit version of Ghost v11.5 and its
associated files into a folder on the Win10 installation media, and I
boot into the installation environment, choose 'R' for repair, and
thence into a command prompt to run Ghost from there. It's not as
conveniently automated, but works more reliably than the XP system for
disks greater than 1TB and for Win10, particularly in relation to the
problem outlined in the next paragraph.

WARNING 1: Windows 10 - I think, but it might have been one of the
versions intermediate between 7 & 10 - introduced a boot-time saving
feature whereby part of the system is cached, even when the PC is shut
down rather than hibernated. If you don't disable this, when you next
try to use Ghost, and maybe other imaging software, it complains that
the check flag is set on the NTFS system partition and advises you to
check the disk before imaging, but doing so might confuse Win10 on is
next boot, it might attempt to 'fix' the problem and break the boot
process. To backup reliably using Ghost and probably other imaging
software, you MUST disable this feature. I'm sorry that, having done
this for all my W10 builds some time ago, I can't remember further
details about how to do this, but, AFAICR it was from the older version
power-settings pages reached via Control Panel, not via Win 10s
new-fangled Settings option. I found the solution on the web though, so
others should be able to find it also.

WARNING 2: Also, if, like me, you back up onto the data partition, you
must NOT back up a hibernated Windows build, because when the normal
system boots back up, it will think the new image file is some sort of
corruption to the data partition, and try to 'fix' the problem. Even if
you don't backup to a data partition, I would advise always fully
shutting down a PC before imaging it, and never to use an image from a
hibernated PC unless extreme circumstances makes it necessary.

--
Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

Newyana2

2024-03-03 13:05:51 UTC

<***@aol.com> wrote

|I have been using Acronis 2015 for years but they seemed have just
| abandoned it. I am trying to reinstall and it just sits there with the
| activate button grayed out. There is no support and it is just a
| coaster now.
| They don't even sell a product to replace it other than some $50 a
| year subscription with a lot of stuff I don't want. What is everyone
| using these days?

I've used BootIt for many years. A long time ago I used
Partition Magic and Drive Image. Then Powerquest sold out to
Symantec and Symantec ruined it, as usual, turning Drive Image
into a .Net-based backup tool.

So at that point I went hunting. People don't pay much notice
to BootIt because it's $40, and most people refuse to pay for
software. But for something this important, I'm happy to pay.

BootIt does imaging, partitioning, BCD edit, on-disk file editing
from EFI partitions or for boot.ini in XP, and multi-booting. I
recently set up a new computer that I'm putting Win10 and
Suse Leap onto, dual booting.

Suse was a mess, first breaking secure boot with a faulty shim
file, then failing to install the boot files, saying it was unable to
find the EFI partition during install! But aside from that it worked
out fine. In fact, the BootIt developer made a video with exact
instructions on how to set it up. I also installed Xubuntu, but didn't
like it. Nevertheless, BootIt can boot it for me if I just add it to the
boot menu.

BootIt is very solid and the docs are good, if you need them, but
there's no handholding. You need to understand the basics. Most
other products, like Acronis, are designed to be incremental backup
utilities for people who don't and won't understand disk imaging.

I keep disk images on DVDs and USB sticks with all the software
installed and the system configured. I also keep copies on data
partitions. I do that for every computer, so that even sudden
death of both hard disks won't lose the system. And BootIt can be
booted from a CD or USB stick. Anything not happening to the BootIt
install partition can be done from the boot menu.

Most people seem to like Macrium free. That may work just as
well. I don't know. I've never tried it.

J. P. Gilliver

2024-03-03 18:26:16 UTC

In message <us1sji$2gjd7$***@dont-email.me> at Sun, 3 Mar 2024 08:05:51,
Newyana2 <***@invalid.nospam> writes
[]

Post by Newyana2
Most people seem to like Macrium free. That may work just as
well. I don't know. I've never tried it.

I'd agree with that endorsement - but I suspect like most of the others
on here I've never given Acronis, EaseUS ToDo, or any of the others a
real go.

I have my drive partitioned into C: - which I leave for the OS and most
software - and D:, where I store all my data (except that created by the
few softwares that insist on using C:). My C: is 50.0 GB, of which 12.4
GB is still free. I have my external drive also partitioned into two -
on one of which I image C: (there's room for two or three such images)
with Macrium, the other I just copy-backup (alternating between two
folders) my D:. (I use FreeFileSync to do the copying, to save time.)

One thing I think none of the imagers - free or paid - have, is a sound
driver. Why would I want one? Well, for my blind friends (and many
others around the world), to give some speech output. The couple of
times they've needed to restore an image when I've not been with them,
have been for me a "good game", an expression those who know a certain
UK light entertainment TV prog. would recognise: using Skype via an
iPhone, with the iPhone propped up so that I could see the little
monitor they have (for the benefit of visiting sighted friends like me).
The 'phone was sideways on, and kept slipping ... and with her using a
mouse for the first time. (Yes, I think Macrium can be used entirely
from the keyboard - tabbing round etcetera - but.)

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

We're not poor, we just don't have any money.
- Brenda Blethyn's mother quoted in RT 2021/8/28-9/3

croy

2024-03-03 17:08:48 UTC

I've been using DriveSnapshot for several years, and it has saved my bacon a number of times.

--
croy

Paul

2024-03-04 09:25:34 UTC

AOMEI Backupper
EaseUs Todo Backup
Paragon Backup & Recovery (in business?)

Macrium (paid) has Incremental Forever. That's where it does Incremental
like others would do it, and it does some sort of Synthetic Full at
some point, to "restart the incremental sequence". That's so not
too many incrementals are stacked on top of one another. Personally,
I still like the idea of the occasional "real" Full, so I know I have
integrity at some point. I expect they do have that built into the
sequence at some point.

I just do the occasional full myself, as that's something I can do when
nothing else is going on.

The comparison article, likely uses hard drives, and may not be
indicative of what using a room full of SSDs could sustain. For example,
Macrium upper speed limit comes from whatever it uses for a checksum,
and the checksum process may not be running on a separate CPU core.
Same goes for compression processes. Tools which run their compressor
on other cores, may go faster (if you choose to compress your backups).

While the tables are arranged as if it's some sort of race, the way
the test is conducted, is not really emphasizing speed over everything
else, as you'd have to take I/O speed out of the picture, to see what
they're really capable of. The main purpose of those tables, is to
spot softwares which are "egregiously" slow, programs that don't have an
excuse for being that bad. DriveImage XML was originally a kind of "demo"
program, and it was unclear whether the author of it was serious
about going commercial, or in improving the program.

And no matter what you use, you need to test it. That means
having some scratch drives for test backup and test restore.
And seeing what has gone missing.

Paul

g***@aol.com

2024-03-05 07:25:32 UTC

There is some dribble here, but I presume you're stuck at some step in all this.
https://kb.acronis.com/ati2015/moveactivation
*******
The raymondcc site is gone. The backup comparison article, does not
compare the latest and greatest version of each (especially as Acronis
has gone off-track in terms of backups).
https://whatsoftware.com/10-commercial-disk-imaging-software-features-and-backuprestore-speed-comparison/
# There is a separate table of "free" programs. Three have incremental.
https://whatsoftware.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/free_image_backup_results.png
AOMEI Backupper
EaseUs Todo Backup
Paragon Backup & Recovery (in business?)
Macrium (paid) has Incremental Forever. That's where it does Incremental
like others would do it, and it does some sort of Synthetic Full at
some point, to "restart the incremental sequence". That's so not
too many incrementals are stacked on top of one another. Personally,
I still like the idea of the occasional "real" Full, so I know I have
integrity at some point. I expect they do have that built into the
sequence at some point.
I just do the occasional full myself, as that's something I can do when
nothing else is going on.
The comparison article, likely uses hard drives, and may not be
indicative of what using a room full of SSDs could sustain. For example,
Macrium upper speed limit comes from whatever it uses for a checksum,
and the checksum process may not be running on a separate CPU core.
Same goes for compression processes. Tools which run their compressor
on other cores, may go faster (if you choose to compress your backups).
While the tables are arranged as if it's some sort of race, the way
the test is conducted, is not really emphasizing speed over everything
else, as you'd have to take I/O speed out of the picture, to see what
they're really capable of. The main purpose of those tables, is to
spot softwares which are "egregiously" slow, programs that don't have an
excuse for being that bad. DriveImage XML was originally a kind of "demo"
program, and it was unclear whether the author of it was serious
about going commercial, or in improving the program.
And no matter what you use, you need to test it. That means
having some scratch drives for test backup and test restore.
And seeing what has gone missing.
Paul

I saw that but it is not the message I get. This just says it can't
write the value (a bunch of them) and I can't even get Regedit to open
the Acronis fields. I am administrator.
I think this might work if it would just load the software from the
disk but it down;loads the one from the host.
Maybe I will try it again after a cleanup with the cable unplugged so
it can't see the internet.

Ant

2024-03-10 19:57:43 UTC

What about System Image that is included in W7?

--
"All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: 'Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.' Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, 'The righteous will live by faith.'" ???Galatians 3:10-11. Can we pls keep PDT 4eva? Still achy. :) Mar10 day!
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Paul

2024-03-10 22:34:20 UTC