Change a windows caption doubleclick to minimizing ?

[R.Wieser]

Hello all,

First off, I'm (stil) using XP, but as that newsgroup seems to be
pretty-much dead ...

I just realized that I /way/ more often minimize a window than that I
maximize it. As such a am wondering if there is setting which will globally
change a double-click on a windows caption to minimizing the window.

Yep, thats all. Probably doesn't exist, but you/I never know ... :-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[J. P. Gilliver]

Post by R.Wieser
Hello all,
First off, I'm (stil) using XP, but as that newsgroup seems to be
pretty-much dead ...
I just realized that I /way/ more often minimize a window than that I
maximize it. As such a am wondering if there is setting which will globally
change a double-click on a windows caption to minimizing the window.
Yep, thats all. Probably doesn't exist, but you/I never know ... :-)
Regards,
Rudy Wieser

(7 here, but this has probably been there since Windows 3.x ...)

Alt-space n, or if you're mouse-obsessed, click top-left then n - _may_
be quicker than what you're doing. (_Don't_ double-click top left: that
seems to close!)

[R.Wieser]

J. P. Gilliver,

Post by J. P. Gilliver
Alt-space n,

Hmmm... I always forget about that menu. Might be usefull when already
having my hands on the keyboard (which, when on the desktop, doesn't happen
all that often).

... though I'm quite bad at remembering "secret" incantations like that. :-\

Post by J. P. Gilliver
or if you're mouse-obsessed, click top-left then n - _may_ be quicker than
what you're doing.

I doubt it, regardless of using the standard "minimize" button or my
intended "almost anywhere on the caption bar". Having to shift (eye) focus
from the mouse/desktop to the keyboard (or vice verse) puts you at a severe
disadvantage.

Post by J. P. Gilliver
(_Don't_ double-click top left: that seems to close!)

Don't (double-)click the top right area either, as that seems to do the same
:-)

Or, for keyboard-obsessed people, hitting ALT-F4. :-p


But I take it you are not aware of any setting to do what I asked about.
Bummer.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[J. P. Gilliver]

Post by R.Wieser
J. P. Gilliver,

Post by J. P. Gilliver
Alt-space n,

Hmmm... I always forget about that menu. Might be usefull when already
having my hands on the keyboard (which, when on the desktop, doesn't happen
all that often).

I was going to say I find it easier than the minimise button, perhaps
because I'm using a laptop with touchpad. But thinking about it,
actually I think I just rarely minimise anything! Of the dozen or so
things I have open at the moment, I don't think any are minimised -
they're just under other things. I use alt-tab a lot, or the taskbar
buttons.

Post by R.Wieser
... though I'm quite bad at remembering "secret" incantations like that. :-\

Yes, it's hardly documented anywhere.

Post by R.Wieser

Post by J. P. Gilliver
or if you're mouse-obsessed, click top-left then n - _may_ be quicker than
what you're doing.

I doubt it, regardless of using the standard "minimize" button or my
intended "almost anywhere on the caption bar". Having to shift (eye) focus
from the mouse/desktop to the keyboard (or vice verse) puts you at a severe
disadvantage.

True, though alt-space - especially on a proper keyboard - I think I can
do without looking. (Maybe helps that I'm left-handed [don't know if
alt-space works with the right alt key on a US layout: I'm used to the
right alt key having a different function anyway].)

Post by R.Wieser

Post by J. P. Gilliver
(_Don't_ double-click top left: that seems to close!)

Don't (double-)click the top right area either, as that seems to do the same
:-)

True, but the X might suggest that that will happen, whereas there isn't
anything similar top left!

Post by R.Wieser
Or, for keyboard-obsessed people, hitting ALT-F4. :-p

I've always found alt-F4 awkward, though I do use it sometimes.

Post by R.Wieser
But I take it you are not aware of any setting to do what I asked about.
Bummer.

Sorry, no. I don't even use the double-click-in-title-bar much if at all
- I think I more do it by mistake (and wonder why my screen layout has
changed) than deliberately.

Post by R.Wieser
Regards,
Rudy Wieser

me

[R.Wieser]

J. P. Gilliver,

Of the dozen or so things I have open at the moment, I don't think any are
minimised - they're just under other things.

To me multiple open windows are distracting, so I normally only have open
what I actually need for my current task. And from those I often minimize
the ones I'm not activly use.

Althoug I sometimes hear of people who have tens of windows open for weeks
on end I cannot imagine myself doing such a thing.

True, but the X might suggest that that will happen, whereas there isn't
anything similar top left!

The "close" option in that menu is displayed in bold, which doesn't have any
meaning in normal use of the menu. But it could well be the "default
action" indicator, preformed on a double-click.

I've always found alt-F4 awkward, though I do use it sometimes.

For me it depends. The nice thing is that those keys are always at the same
place, and I do not have to hunt (with the mouse) for a dialogs close
button.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[Ken Blake]

Post by R.Wieser
J. P. Gilliver,

Of the dozen or so things I have open at the moment, I don't think any are
minimised - they're just under other things.

To me multiple open windows are distracting, so I normally only have open
what I actually need for my current task. And from those I often minimize
the ones I'm not activly use.
Althoug I sometimes hear of people who have tens of windows open for weeks
on end I cannot imagine myself doing such a thing.

I always have six Windows open, and sometimes one or two more.

But I have a 34" wide-screen monitor.

[Frank Slootweg]

Post by R.Wieser
Hello all,
First off, I'm (stil) using XP, but as that newsgroup seems to be
pretty-much dead ...

<OT>

FWIW, I never unsubscribe from quiet/'dead' groups.

For example at the moment, 'even' while I'm using Windows 11 (and
'managing' SWMBO's Windows 10), I'm still subscribed to anything from XP
to 11.

Of course I don't know what others do, so YMMV/YMWV.

</OT>

Post by R.Wieser
I just realized that I /way/ more often minimize a window than that I
maximize it. As such a am wondering if there is setting which will globally
change a double-click on a windows caption to minimizing the window.

Count your blessings! On 11 (and 10? and 8[1]?), for some programs
(mainly 'apps'?), you don't even get to *see* a '-' on the top bar,
unless you hover over it!

"Just click on the invisible '-' (or '[ ]' or 'X')!" Microsoft UI
'design' in action! :-(

Post by R.Wieser
Yep, thats all. Probably doesn't exist, but you/I never know ... :-)

[Ammammata]

Post by Frank Slootweg
I'm still subscribed to anything from XP
to 11.

on my side also 9x and DOS :)
Loading Image...

[VanguardLH]

Post by R.Wieser
First off, I'm (stil) using XP, but as that newsgroup seems to be
pretty-much dead ...

Lack of volume does not necessitate death. Did you try posting there to
see if you got a response in a couple days? I and others still monitor
the XP newsgroup, but that doesn't mean we respond unless we think we
can help.

Post by R.Wieser
I just realized that I /way/ more often minimize a window than that I
maximize it. As such a am wondering if there is setting which will
globally change a double-click on a windows caption to minimizing the
window.

A hotkey sequence you can use on the focused window is to press
Winkey+downarrow to reduce size. If the window is maximized,
Winkey+downarrow changes to normal sized window. If the window is
normal sized, Winkey+downarrow minimizes the window. Same for the
Winkey+uparrow hotkey combo. This only works on the active window (the
one with focus).

Winkey+M minimizes all windows. Winkey+Shift+M restores them.

Although the trend has been to hide the Control menu of a window, often
Alt+Space will show it. N will minimize, and x will maximize, so you
can use Alt+Space N or Alt+Space X.

There is probably 3rd-party software that will alter windows behavior.
I hear (never used) Actual Window Manager has an option for what you
want: https://www.actualtools.com/windowmanager/. Looks like it is
shareware.

I've read where you can do a registry edit in Win7/8/10/11, but don't
know if it was available back in WinXP. Run regedit, and edit:

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Desktop
Create a string valued item named SnapSizing.
Set to 1 (enable) or 0 (disable)

Mine is set to 1 which means double-clicking on the titlebar will
maximize that window. I have not tested with it set to 0 (disable) to
see what double-clicking will do on the titlebar. Just because a
registry setting exists for a later version of Windows doesn't mean it
is recognized in an earlier version of Windows. Likewise, registry
settings may get dropped, and creating them in a later version of
Windows may not get them recognized and honored. I don't know that
disabling double-click on the titlebar changes the maximize action to
the minimize action, or if nothing then happens when double-clicking the
titlebar.

Of course, you're not saving any mouse clicks. You'll either
double-click to minimize, or you'll single-click on the dash ("-") icon
to minimize the window.

If the app's code controls the action of double-clicking on the
titlebar, the Windows setting is overridden.

[R.Wieser]

VanguardLH,

Post by VanguardLH
A hotkey sequence you can use on the focused window is to
press Winkey+downarrow to reduce size.

Doesn't work here. I get the normal arrow-down key response.

Post by VanguardLH
Winkey+M minimizes all windows.

Same as the "show desktop" next to my "start" button. But I need to be able
to do that for one window, not all at the same time.

Post by VanguardLH
you can use Alt+Space N

J. P. Gilliver mentioned the same.

I don't like "magical" keystrokes though, I forget them too easily. That,
and I would than need to switch from the mouse to keyboard. IOW, just
clicking the dialogs "minimize" button would probably/likely be
easier/quicker.

Post by VanguardLH
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Desktop
Create a string valued item named SnapSizing.
Set to 1 (enable) or 0 (disable)

Thank you for that. Alas, the below only says, for that registry edit, that
that will disable the vertical sizing, and nothing about minimizing.

https://www.elevenforum.com/t/enable-or-disable-double-click-to-maximize-windows-vertically-in-windows.3225/

Post by VanguardLH
Of course, you're not saving any mouse clicks. You'll either
double-click to minimize, or you'll single-click on the dash ("-")
icon to minimize the window.

:-) clicking the caption bar on its middle-ish now maximizes the window,
even if there is a "maximize" button right there next to it.

IOW, it already duplicates an already available button method, and I just
want it to duplicate /the other/ already available button method.

Post by VanguardLH
There is probably 3rd-party software that will alter windows behavior.

I was already thinking of trying to build something for it myself. But I'd
rather use a(n already available) setting. Thru registry editing or a
windows configuration screen.

Post by VanguardLH
If the app's code controls the action of double-clicking on the
titlebar, the Windows setting is overridden.

I did not override it, but just noticed that I seem to have a dialog window
which doesn't minimize using the winkey-M method. It however does using the
earlier mentioned "Show desktop" button.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[VanguardLH]

Post by R.Wieser
VanguardLH,

Post by VanguardLH
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Desktop
Create a string valued item named SnapSizing.
Set to 1 (enable) or 0 (disable)

Thank you for that. Alas, the below only says, for that registry edit, that
that will disable the vertical sizing, and nothing about minimizing.
https://www.elevenforum.com/t/enable-or-disable-double-click-to-maximize-windows-vertically-in-windows.3225/

Isn't vertical sizing the same as minimize, normal, and maximize?

Also, that article says to use Winkey+Shift+down/up for resizing the
window. On my Win10 setup, I don't need the Shift key. Maybe you do
back in WinXP.

Post by R.Wieser
clicking the caption bar on its middle-ish now maximizes the window,
even if there is a "maximize" button right there next to it.

Hmm, seems odd that both the "-" and max icons do the same thing. Could
be a prior tweak, or some tool you run in the background to effect
behavior on windows.

[R.Wieser]

VanguardLH,

Post by VanguardLH
Hmm, seems odd that both the "-" and max icons do the same thing.

You're the only one here asserting that I'm afraid, and I've got no idea
where you got it from. Sorry.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[Ken Blake]

Post by R.Wieser
VanguardLH,

Post by VanguardLH
Hmm, seems odd that both the "-" and max icons do the same thing.

You're the only one here asserting that I'm afraid, and I've got no idea
where you got it from. Sorry.

It seems very odd to me too.

[VanguardLH]

Post by R.Wieser
VanguardLH,

Post by VanguardLH
Hmm, seems odd that both the "-" and max icons do the same thing.

You're the only one here asserting that I'm afraid, and I've got no idea
where you got it from. Sorry.

Huh? Just which words have me asserting you are afraid, and of what? I
merely commented that it seems odd the "-" and max icons on the titlebar
perform the same action of maximizing the window when the "-" should
minimize the window. I've never seen the behavior you describe. That's
why what you describe seems odd to me. Something is odd when it never
or rarely happens.

[R.Wieser]

VanguardLH,

Post by VanguardLH
Huh? Just which words have me asserting you are afraid, and of what?

Oh well.

Thank you for making it clear that went back to trolling. To be honest,
your previous post made me already wonder, but I wanted to give you the
benefit of the doubt.

Back into my "lets ignore him." list I'm afraid.

And FWI, even if you really have no clue to what I ment (but I doubt that
very much) than I have no desire to struggle/fight with you, effectivily
trying to teach you basic English conversation.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[VanguardLH]

Post by R.Wieser
VanguardLH,

Post by VanguardLH
Huh? Just which words have me asserting you are afraid, and of what?

Oh well.
Thank you for making it clear that went back to trolling. To be honest,
your previous post made me already wonder, but I wanted to give you the
benefit of the doubt.
Back into my "lets ignore him." list I'm afraid.
And FWI, even if you really have no clue to what I ment (but I doubt that
very much) than I have no desire to struggle/fight with you, effectivily
trying to teach you basic English conversation.
Regards,
Rudy Wieser

Does ANYONE have a clue why Reiser chose to become animous to me? Where
did I say he was afraid of anything? I give him several possible
resolutions, he figures perhaps I didn't assualt/insult him, but then he
accuses me of trolling. Something odd about Reiser himself.

[Frank Slootweg]

Post by VanguardLH

Post by R.Wieser
VanguardLH,

Post by VanguardLH
Huh? Just which words have me asserting you are afraid, and of what?

Oh well.
Thank you for making it clear that went back to trolling. To be honest,
your previous post made me already wonder, but I wanted to give you the
benefit of the doubt.
Back into my "lets ignore him." list I'm afraid.
And FWI, even if you really have no clue to what I ment (but I doubt that
very much) than I have no desire to struggle/fight with you, effectivily
trying to teach you basic English conversation.
Regards,
Rudy Wieser

Does ANYONE have a clue why Reiser chose to become animous to me? Where
did I say he was afraid of anything? I give him several possible
resolutions, he figures perhaps I didn't assualt/insult him, but then he
accuses me of trolling. Something odd about Reiser himself.

Well, calling him "Reiser" might not be the best way going forward
:-), but...

About the 'afraid' issue: (IMO) "The Case Of The Missing Comma:

<RW>

Post by VanguardLH
Hmm, seems odd that both the "-" and max icons do the same thing.

You're the only one here asserting that I'm afraid, and I've got no idea
where you got it from. Sorry.

</RW>

Which should be (read as):

<RW>

Post by VanguardLH
Hmm, seems odd that both the "-" and max icons do the same thing.

You're the only one here asserting that, I'm afraid, and I've got no idea
^
where you got it from. Sorry.

</RW>

[VanguardLH]

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by VanguardLH
Does ANYONE have a clue why Reiser chose to become animous to me?
Where did I say he was afraid of anything? I give him several
possible resolutions, he figures perhaps I didn't assualt/insult
him, but then he accuses me of trolling. Something odd about Reiser
himself.

Well, calling him "Reiser" might not be the best way going forward
:-), but...

Oops, my bad.

Post by Frank Slootweg
You're the only one here asserting that I'm afraid, and I've got no
idea where you got it from. Sorry.
You're the only one here asserting that, I'm afraid, and I've got no
idea where you got it from. Sorry.

Ah, perhaps that's it. He's not afraid of something, but interjecting a
doubt regarding my experience of never seeing the behavior he claims for
the "-" titlebar icon. Okay, missing punctuation led to confusion.
Wieser also neglected the comma in his statement:

Back into my "lets ignore him." list I'm afraid.

which he probably meant to be:

Back into my "lets ignore him" list, I'm afraid.
no period ---' '--- missing comma

Getting back to the titlebar icons, have you ever had the "-" titlebar
icon maximize the window as does the square (maximize) titlebar icon?
In my experience, the "-" titlebar icon /minimizes/ the window.

However, again with having to interpret, I had to guess Wieser's
"middle-ish" meant the "-" titlebar icon, and "now maximizes the window"
is newly changed behavior. That is, "-" used to minimize (which is what
I've always seen it do), but recently it changed to maximize. With that
change in windowing behavior, I'd investigate what causes the behavior
change since other oddities may be effected by the same cause. Without
being there to look at his setup, and lacking details, I'd suggest to
first start Windows in its safe mode to eliminate any startup programs
he added, and eliminate non-essential services. In safe mode, test if
"-" still maximizes instead of minimizes. Trying to attain an
alternative to minimizing the window ignores the problem, like masking
the symptom instead of resolving the cause.

[J. P. Gilliver]

In message <***@v.nguard.lh> at Fri, 1 Sep 2023 11:49:48,
VanguardLH <***@nguard.LH> writes
[]

Post by VanguardLH
However, again with having to interpret, I had to guess Wieser's
"middle-ish" meant the "-" titlebar icon, and "now maximizes the window"

No, he meant double-clicking on "about the middle" of the title bar.
(The "-" icon is well over to the right.) Double-clicking in the middle
of the title bar does more or less what the icon to the _right_ of the
"-" one does - i. e. maximises when not maximised, returns to that when
maximised. He wondered if there was a way of changing what happens when
you double-click on the unoccupied part of the title bar.

Post by VanguardLH
is newly changed behavior. That is, "-" used to minimize (which is what
I've always seen it do), but recently it changed to maximize. With that

(Never has for me!)
[]

[VanguardLH]

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by VanguardLH
However, again with having to interpret, I had to guess Wieser's
"middle-ish" meant the "-" titlebar icon, and "now maximizes the window"

No, he meant double-clicking on "about the middle" of the title bar.
(The "-" icon is well over to the right.) Double-clicking in the middle
of the title bar does more or less what the icon to the _right_ of the
"-" one does - i. e. maximises when not maximised, returns to that when
maximised. He wondered if there was a way of changing what happens when
you double-click on the unoccupied part of the title bar.

The first discussion was how to minimize the window, and he already
mentioned double-clicking on the titlebar (anywhere on the titlebar)
would maximize the window. That action was already stated. The part
that got confusing/misleading was when the discussion focused on using
the "-" minimize titlebar icon.

Also, he said "clicking the caption bar on its middle-ish". He didn't
say double-clicking, so you can assume he meant double-click, or you can
assume he single clicked on something "middle-ish". Him saying click
meant I didn't have to assume he meant double-click. I went with what
he said, not what he meant to say.

I had forgotten about using the taskbar button method that MR mentioned
to toggle between minimized and restore window. That should work for
the OP. Even if he auto-hides the Taskbar, it should scroll up when he
moves the mouse pointer to the bottom of the screen, but I've seen users
complain the Taskbar didn't appear (scroll up) when they moved the mouse
pointer to the bottom of the screen. Too many apps don't resize when
the auto-hide Taskbar scrolls up, so I stopped using auto-hide a long
time ago.

[J. P. Gilliver]

In message <***@v.nguard.lh> at Fri, 1 Sep 2023 15:01:50,
VanguardLH <***@nguard.LH> writes
[]

Post by VanguardLH
The first discussion was how to minimize the window, and he already
mentioned double-clicking on the titlebar (anywhere on the titlebar)
would maximize the window. That action was already stated. The part

Good, we agree so far.

Post by VanguardLH
that got confusing/misleading was when the discussion focused on using
the "-" minimize titlebar icon.

(It didn't for me, but I may not have been paying attention. [_Don't_
give me chapter and verse on where it did. I'm not _denying_ it.])

Post by VanguardLH
Also, he said "clicking the caption bar on its middle-ish". He didn't
say double-clicking, so you can assume he meant double-click, or you can
assume he single clicked on something "middle-ish". Him saying click
meant I didn't have to assume he meant double-click. I went with what
he said, not what he meant to say.

Well, _single_-clicking somewhere in the title bar doesn't do a lot. (It
makes the window the current focus if it isn't already, but clicking
_anywhere_ in it does that.)

Post by VanguardLH
I had forgotten about using the taskbar button method that MR mentioned
to toggle between minimized and restore window. That should work for
the OP. Even if he auto-hides the Taskbar, it should scroll up when he
moves the mouse pointer to the bottom of the screen, but I've seen users
complain the Taskbar didn't appear (scroll up) when they moved the mouse
pointer to the bottom of the screen. Too many apps don't resize when
the auto-hide Taskbar scrolls up, so I stopped using auto-hide a long
time ago.

Agreed. I just found it disconcerting. I also use a double-height
taskbar (two rows of buttons), and quite a few app.s don't "play nice"
with that either. (None of which helps the OP in his desire to change
the result of [double] clicking the title bar.)

[VanguardLH]

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Too many apps don't resize when the auto-hide Taskbar scrolls up, so
I stopped using auto-hide a long time ago.

Agreed. I just found it disconcerting. I also use a double-height
taskbar (two rows of buttons), and quite a few app.s don't "play nice"
with that either.

I also use a double-row taskbar. Bottom taskbar row is for toolbars of
shortcuts. The toolbars group the shortcuts. I can squash a toolbar to
show the most-used shortcuts, and click the chevron to view the rest as
a popup list. Top row is for icons of open apps. Pinned apps would
also show their icons in the top row, but I've never found pinning a
desirable feature. The double-row taskbar also makes the system tray
big enough to show more info: time (with seconds), day of week, and
date. 2 rows for non-hidden systray icons, too. Not sure this layout
would translate well if the taskbar were pinned to the top or sides of
the screen.

[J. P. Gilliver]

In message <***@v.nguard.lh> at Fri, 1 Sep 2023 17:27:37,
VanguardLH <***@nguard.LH> writes
[]

Post by VanguardLH
I also use a double-row taskbar. Bottom taskbar row is for toolbars of
shortcuts. The toolbars group the shortcuts. I can squash a toolbar to
show the most-used shortcuts, and click the chevron to view the rest as
a popup list. Top row is for icons of open apps. Pinned apps would
also show their icons in the top row, but I've never found pinning a
desirable feature. The double-row taskbar also makes the system tray

Since my desktop is usually mostly obscured by assorted open windows, I
_do_ find pinning useful. But each to his own.

Post by VanguardLH
big enough to show more info: time (with seconds), day of week, and

Yes. I also use TClockEx which gives me more control of the layout of
those.

Post by VanguardLH
date. 2 rows for non-hidden systray icons, too. Not sure this layout

Yes - I don't like hidden ones.

Post by VanguardLH
would translate well if the taskbar were pinned to the top or sides of
the screen.

Presumably top would be similar, other than the app.s which don't work
with that properly. (But I have it at the bottom anyway.)

[VanguardLH]

Post by J. P. Gilliver

The double-row taskbar also makes the system tray big enough to show
more info: time (with seconds), day of week, and date.

Yes. I also use TClockEx which gives me more control of the layout of
those.

I remember looking at TClockEx, but decided I didn't need all the fluff:
font, font style, color, size, and background color. I also did NOT
want a longer horizontal blob showing the time/date info, but a 3-line
display to minimize how fat was the clock blob. All I wanted was to add
the seconds to the time, and that was via a registry edit.

Key: HKCU\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Advanced
Data: ShowSecondsInSystemClock (REG_WORD)
Value: 1 to show, 0 to hide

The others (day of week and date) were a consequence of increasing the
height of the systray, so I see:

hh:mm:ss AM/PM
day-of-week
mm/dd/yyyy

3 lines of the clock blob are shown within the height of 2 taskbar rows.

[J. P. Gilliver]

In message <***@v.nguard.lh> at Sat, 2 Sep 2023 00:06:46,
VanguardLH <***@nguard.LH> writes
[]

Post by VanguardLH
font, font style, color, size, and background color. I also did NOT
want a longer horizontal blob showing the time/date info, but a 3-line
display to minimize how fat was the clock blob. All I wanted was to add
the seconds to the time, and that was via a registry edit.

I agree, TClockEx (and there's another similarly-named one) offers more
than I want; also, like various other things, its colour settings don't
"play nice" with an Aero theme. I just find it easier to tweak the
layout in it.

Post by VanguardLH
Key: HKCU\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Advanced
Data: ShowSecondsInSystemClock (REG_WORD)
Value: 1 to show, 0 to hide

Noted, thanks.

Post by VanguardLH
The others (day of week and date) were a consequence of increasing the
hh:mm:ss AM/PM
day-of-week
mm/dd/yyyy
3 lines of the clock blob are shown within the height of 2 taskbar rows.

Yes, having a two-button-row taskbar does indeed give you a three-row
clock, even without any add-on. I have (presumably I must have set a
smaller font) four lines (centred):
day-of-week
yyyy month d
H:m:s
timezone +0x00

Each to his own.

[R.Wieser]

J. P. Gilliver,

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by VanguardLH
However, again with having to interpret, I had to guess Wieser's
"middle-ish" meant the "-" titlebar icon, and "now maximizes the window"

...

Post by J. P. Gilliver
No, he meant double-clicking on "about the middle" of the title bar.

Worse, I even SAID it that way :

[quote=me]
:-) clicking the caption bar on its middle-ish
[/quote]

Notice the "caption bar" usage there. No idea how he "interpreted" that to
being the minimize button.

The same (window) caption I've been mentioning in both my initial post as
well as in several replies thruout this thread.

No, someone here is *very* bad at guessing. *Way* to bad for my comfort.

@Vanguard:
If you want to know why I "chose to become animous to" you ? That happens
when I see someone "guess" stupid things (that make no sense *at all*) and
than, from such guesses, tries to put words into my mouth.

Never *EVER* do that. Not to me, not to others either.

If you are unsure what was ment *ASK*.


... the above in the case you're /not/ just trolling around .

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[VanguardLH]

Post by R.Wieser
J. P. Gilliver,

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by VanguardLH
However, again with having to interpret, I had to guess Wieser's
"middle-ish" meant the "-" titlebar icon, and "now maximizes the window"

...

Post by J. P. Gilliver
No, he meant double-clicking on "about the middle" of the title bar.

[quote=me]
:-) clicking the caption bar on its middle-ish
[/quote]
Notice the "caption bar" usage there. No idea how he "interpreted" that to
being the minimize button.
The same (window) caption I've been mentioning in both my initial post as
well as in several replies thruout this thread.
No, someone here is *very* bad at guessing. *Way* to bad for my comfort.
If you want to know why I "chose to become animous to" you ? That happens
when I see someone "guess" stupid things (that make no sense *at all*) and
than, from such guesses, tries to put words into my mouth.
Never *EVER* do that. Not to me, not to others either.
If you are unsure what was ment *ASK*.
... the above in the case you're /not/ just trolling around .
Regards,
Rudy Wieser

I interpreted what you actually said instead of what you meant.

[J. P. Gilliver]

In message <***@v.nguard.lh> at Fri, 1 Sep 2023 17:28:31,
VanguardLH <***@nguard.LH> writes
[]

Post by VanguardLH
I interpreted what you actually said instead of what you meant.

"Oh how I hate this damn machine -
oh how I wish they'd sell it;
it never does quite what I want,
but only what I tell it."

(I forget where I picked that up - many decades ago, though.)

[JJ]

Post by R.Wieser
Hello all,
First off, I'm (stil) using XP, but as that newsgroup seems to be
pretty-much dead ...
I just realized that I /way/ more often minimize a window than that I
maximize it. As such a am wondering if there is setting which will globally
change a double-click on a windows caption to minimizing the window.
Yep, thats all. Probably doesn't exist, but you/I never know ... :-)
Regards,
Rudy Wieser

It'll be a lot faster to use e.g. AutoHotkey to set up a keyboard shortcut
to maximize the active window. Preferrably, a shortcut which is quickly
accessible by the left or the other hand which isn't holding the mouse. Two
hands makes things done faster than only one.

[J. P. Gilliver]

Post by JJ

Post by R.Wieser
Hello all,
First off, I'm (stil) using XP, but as that newsgroup seems to be
pretty-much dead ...
I just realized that I /way/ more often minimize a window than that I
maximize it. As such a am wondering if there is setting which will globally
change a double-click on a windows caption to minimizing the window.
Yep, thats all. Probably doesn't exist, but you/I never know ... :-)
Regards,
Rudy Wieser

It'll be a lot faster to use e.g. AutoHotkey to set up a keyboard shortcut
to maximize the active window. Preferrably, a shortcut which is quickly
accessible by the left or the other hand which isn't holding the mouse. Two
hands makes things done faster than only one.

I think he wants something he can do with the mouse. From the keyboard,
the old (since Windows 3.x!) Alt-space menu still works - Alt-space x to
maximise, Alt-space n to minimise: no need for macros.

[R.Wieser]

JJ,

Preferrably, a shortcut which is quickly accessible by the left or the
other hand which isn't holding the mouse.

Duplicating the already present alt-space, "n" sequence ...

Thank you, but no thank you.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[Newyana2]

"R.Wieser" <***@is.invalid> wrote

| > Preferrably, a shortcut which is quickly accessible by the left or the
| > other hand which isn't holding the mouse.
|
| Duplicating the already present alt-space, "n" sequence ...
|
| Thank you, but no thank you.
|

I'm afraid this is a lost cause. 90% of people on usenet
never got used to using a mouse, so they're not likely to
know about obscure tweaks, and they can't understand
why you're so stubborn about wanting to click when you
could use a 3-key combination and put a sticky note on
your keyboard to remember it. Isn't that easier than
hunting in your closet for the mouse? :)

I actually thought that you were nuts, as usual. But I
tried the double-click on the title bar and... sure enough...
it maximized! I never knew that. So a minimize click option
does seem like a reasonable thing to ask for.

[Paul]

But I tried the double-click on the title bar and... sure enough...
it maximized!

Hey, I use that :-)

It might even be cross platform.

Did you know, that if you grab a window by the title
bar with your mouse, and "shake it", that's a gesture
and your DE can respond ?

Well, don't do that, because you might not be able to figure out what happened :-)

After WinXP, slapping windows against the side of the screen can do something.
It's possible to resize a window, so all the decorations disappear.

And on Windows 11, you can "push" a window high enough, that the three
decorations in the upper-right corner cannot be seen.

*******

Don't forget that alt-F4 still works, and for a lot of these
"miserable situations" that happen above, that might be a
good choice to kill the program and try again.

Paul

[J. P. Gilliver]

Post by Paul

But I tried the double-click on the title bar and... sure enough...
it maximized!

Hey, I use that :-)
It might even be cross platform.
Did you know, that if you grab a window by the title
bar with your mouse, and "shake it", that's a gesture
and your DE can respond ?
Well, don't do that, because you might not be able to figure out what happened :-)
After WinXP, slapping windows against the side of the screen can do something.

One of the things is "resize to left [or right] half of screen". When I
first came across that I thought it was rather neat, but turned it off
as I found I was doing it when I didn't want to. (And/or, returning
window to where-and-size it was before either wasn't possible or wasn't
obvious, and I don't like things that lose existing settings
irretrievably.)

Post by Paul
It's possible to resize a window, so all the decorations disappear.
And on Windows 11, you can "push" a window high enough, that the three
decorations in the upper-right corner cannot be seen.

That's been possible with the "Move" function in the top-left menu since
(I think) W3.x [ACHTUNG - involves keyboard use!]; in fact I'm pretty
sure you can use that to move a window off the screen/desktop
altogether. (It's a way to try getting back such a window, but as you
don't know which way to move it, it's not as useful as it at first
seems.)
[]

[Newyana2]

"Paul" <***@needed.invalid> wrote

| Did you know, that if you grab a window by the title
| bar with your mouse, and "shake it", that's a gesture
| and your DE can respond ?
|
I don't think I want to know any more about your
kinky pastimes.

[Paul]

Post by Newyana2
| Did you know, that if you grab a window by the title
| bar with your mouse, and "shake it", that's a gesture
| and your DE can respond ?
|
I don't think I want to know any more about your
kinky pastimes.

Well, you discover that one, when you've grabbed a window,
and you can't figure out what to do next (and you're concentrating
on the task and not the Desktop Environment). Then, your window
disappears on you, and you can't figure out what happened.

Paul

[R.Wieser]

Paul,

Post by Paul
Well, you discover that one, when you've grabbed a window,
and you can't figure out what to do next (and you're concentrating
on the task and not the Desktop Environment). Then, your window
disappears on you, and you can't figure out what happened.

In that "windows just does something" realm, did you know that if you have a
"{filename}_folders" folder and a "{filename}.htm" file in the same folder
(a result of saving a webpage) and you delete one the other one also gets
deleted ?

I often save webpages and clean them up (renaming resource files and putting
them next to the HTML file), after which I deleted the folder those files
came from.. It took me quite a while to a) figure out why I had resource
files but without any HTML file using them b) finding a webpage mentioning
that behaviour and showing registry edit which disables that behaviour.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[Paul]

Post by R.Wieser
Paul,

Post by Paul
Well, you discover that one, when you've grabbed a window,
and you can't figure out what to do next (and you're concentrating
on the task and not the Desktop Environment). Then, your window
disappears on you, and you can't figure out what happened.

In that "windows just does something" realm, did you know that if you have a
"{filename}_folders" folder and a "{filename}.htm" file in the same folder
(a result of saving a webpage) and you delete one the other one also gets
deleted ?
I often save webpages and clean them up (renaming resource files and putting
them next to the HTML file), after which I deleted the folder those files
came from.. It took me quite a while to a) figure out why I had resource
files but without any HTML file using them b) finding a webpage mentioning
that behaviour and showing registry edit which disables that behaviour.
Regards,
Rudy Wieser

Yes, that was a fun mystery :-)

Noticed that as well, that saving a "Web Page Complete", the main HTML file
and the folder with the associated files, are "joined" together somehow.
Throwing out one, throws out the other.

Paul

[R.Wieser]

Paul,

Post by Paul
Noticed that as well, that saving a "Web Page Complete", the main HTML file
and the folder with the associated files, are "joined" together somehow.

It seems to be name based only (IOW, a browser doesn't play a role in it).
A folder with a name ending on "_files" (I mistakingly said "_folders"
earlier) and a same-named file with an ".htm" extension are considered to be
part of the same group - even when created manually and (thus) with
different creation times.

Post by Paul
Throwing out one, throws out the other.

On the other hand, it also happens, according to the docs, when copying or
moving files. Which *might* be of some use for someone...

Its the "magical stuff happens" that irks me. :-\

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[VanguardLH]

Post by R.Wieser
Paul,

Post by Paul
Noticed that as well, that saving a "Web Page Complete", the main
HTML file and the folder with the associated files, are "joined"
together somehow.

It seems to be name based only (IOW, a browser doesn't play a role in
it). A folder with a name ending on "_files" (I mistakingly said
"_folders" earlier) and a same-named file with an ".htm" extension
are considered to be part of the same group - even when created
manually and (thus) with different creation times.

Post by Paul
Throwing out one, throws out the other.

On the other hand, it also happens, according to the docs, when
copying or moving files. Which *might* be of some use for someone...
Its the "magical stuff happens" that irks me. :-\

It's a "feature" called Connected Files. To uncouple, rename the
folder, like change from "name_files" to "name" or "othername". Get rid
of the "_files" suffix in the folder name. The coupling is effected on,
at least, the move, copy, cut, delete, paste, and Send To actions, and
apparently hails back to Windows 2000.

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/34717448/reason-why-folder-associated-with-saved-webpage-gets-deleted-when-we-delete-save

No mention of the citation source. It mentions "connected files" as a
feature of Windows 2000. A search on that found:

https://www.komodosec.com/post/playing-with-connected-files-a-story-of-mysterious-behavior-in-windows-file-system

Eventually some further searching found:

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/shell/manage#connected-files

That article mentions a registry setting, NoFileFolderConnection, you
can change to disable the coupling behavior. Normally it is not defined
which means the default is used (file.htm and file_files are coupled).
You have to define the registry entry, and set it to 1, to disable the
coupling. You would have to test if the registry setting works for you.

Unclear is if the coupling is a "feature" in Windows/File Explorer, or
file management within the OS itself. Using a different file manager
might reveal if the coupling is dependent on Windows file manager.

[R.Wieser]

Newyana2,

Post by Newyana2
I'm afraid this is a lost cause. 90% of people on usenet
never got used to using a mouse,

Really ? I would never have thought that. I though that GUI oriented OSes
are nowerdays quite dominant in the user market.

Post by Newyana2
so they're not likely to know about obscure tweaks,

CLI loving oldies, not being aware of obscure stuff ? Hmm... :-)

Post by Newyana2
and they can't understand why you're so stubborn about wanting to
click when you could use a 3-key combination

If that is what they truly think that than they aren't all that bright :
just clicking the "_" button at the top-right of the dialog already does
what I want, and I do not even need to lift my hand off the mouse and move
it to the keyboard - and back.

Post by Newyana2
Isn't that easier than hunting in your closet for the mouse? :)

Whut ? If not for those pesky ancient newsgroups which require text input
I would probably have to check my closet for a keyboard! :-p (damn, why
haven't they added a "create awsome reply" button to my newsgroup reader
yet!)

Post by Newyana2
I actually thought that you were nuts, as usual.

At least thats something you can depend on.

Post by Newyana2
But I tried the double-click on the title bar and... sure enough...
it maximized! I never knew that.

And I never knew that double-clicking the "system menu" at the top-left
would close the window. We both learned something new. :-)

Post by Newyana2
So a minimize click option does seem like a reasonable thing to ask for.

Phew! :-D

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[MR]

Post by R.Wieser
Yep, thats all. Probably doesn't exist, but you/I never know ... :-)

Click on the taskbar icon and it will minimise. Click again and it will
maximize. This works on all open applications. No need to remember key
stokes if you can remember to click on the taskbar, of course, it goes
without saying.

[R.Wieser]

MR,

Post by MR
Click on the taskbar icon and it will minimise. Click again and it
will maximize.

what is that saying again?... Oh yes : O.M.G.!

The simplest solution to what I was looking for (minimizing a window without
having to aim for a small button) and I missed it completely. And that when
I (ofcourse) already use it to un-minimize the window ...

IOW, thank you. That one will definitily do. Nicely big and on a rather
steady location - usable even when the window (and its minimize button) is
partly hidden.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[J. P. Gilliver]

Post by R.Wieser
MR,

Post by MR
Click on the taskbar icon and it will minimise. Click again and it
will maximize.

what is that saying again?... Oh yes : O.M.G.!

(-:

Actually, the second one will restore, rather than maximise, at least if
the window wasn't maximised when minimised. (At least, that's the case
under 7 - oh, I see, we're only posting to the '7 'group. Good.)
[]

Post by R.Wieser
IOW, thank you. That one will definitily do. Nicely big and on a rather

[]

[R.Wieser]

J. P. Gilliver,

Post by J. P. Gilliver
Actually, the second one will restore, rather than maximise

I noticed, but as I un-minimize windows regulary and see the windows/dialogs
restored to their former position and and size I took it that that is what
he ment.

Post by J. P. Gilliver
(At least, that's the case under 7 - oh, I see, we're only posting to the
'7 'group. Good.)

I did consider to cross-post into XP too, but as that one is rather dead /
ammount of spam messages rivals the number of regular ones ...

Regards,
Rudy Wieser