thought I burned out my usb ports and likely my motherboard, answers?

Post by c***@verizon.net
This is long. Gotta let me tell it my way. I'm scheming to put
Windows10 on my boot drive. I am presently dual booting Winxp and Win7
under control of a bcd boot. I purchased a dvd from Shop Software Keys
containing Win10Pro and product activation key. And a few paragraphs
of instructions that didn't leave me confident. I figured to try and
play it by ear.

[Long story of problems deleted.]

Post by c***@verizon.net
I'm thinking the next time I attempt Windows10 install I will unplug
my hard drives and try to get a glimpse of what that mystery install
dvd intends to do. In my log I note that back in 2016 Win7 install
gave me a choice of partition to install to. I also noted that the
next boot showed me a dual boot menu, I don't remember creating it
myself.

If you don't really trust the "mystery install dvd", since you have a
product activation key, why don't you just download the Windows 10
installation media from the horse's mouth?

'Download Windows 10'
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10>

As far as I know this method still works, provided you have a product
activation key, which you have. (I'm sure Winston, Paul, etc. will
correct me if I'm wrong about this. I'm not sure if Winston follows
this group. Would probably have been better if you'd crossposted to the
Windows 10 group (alt.comp.os.windows-10).)

If a DVD is not big enough or don't want to burn a DVD, you can use a
USB memory stick ('flash drive') or ISO file.

[...]

g***@aol.com

2024-01-12 20:35:35 UTC

[Long story of problems deleted.]

If you don't really trust the "mystery install dvd", since you have a
product activation key, why don't you just download the Windows 10
installation media from the horse's mouth?
'Download Windows 10'
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10>
As far as I know this method still works, provided you have a product
activation key, which you have. (I'm sure Winston, Paul, etc. will
correct me if I'm wrong about this. I'm not sure if Winston follows
this group. Would probably have been better if you'd crossposted to the
Windows 10 group (alt.comp.os.windows-10).)
If a DVD is not big enough or don't want to burn a DVD, you can use a
USB memory stick ('flash drive') or ISO file.
[...]

I had to use a USB stick and in spite of them saying 8g was big
enough, it wasn't. A 32g stick worked OK tho.

Paul

2024-01-13 01:21:55 UTC

Post by g***@aol.com

[Long story of problems deleted.]

If you don't really trust the "mystery install dvd", since you have a
product activation key, why don't you just download the Windows 10
installation media from the horse's mouth?
'Download Windows 10'
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10>
As far as I know this method still works, provided you have a product
activation key, which you have. (I'm sure Winston, Paul, etc. will
correct me if I'm wrong about this. I'm not sure if Winston follows
this group. Would probably have been better if you'd crossposted to the
Windows 10 group (alt.comp.os.windows-10).)
If a DVD is not big enough or don't want to burn a DVD, you can use a
USB memory stick ('flash drive') or ISO file.
[...]

I had to use a USB stick and in spite of them saying 8g was big
enough, it wasn't. A 32g stick worked OK tho.

The file comes in two sizes.

Name: Win10_22H2_English_x64v1.iso (Direct download link)
Size: 6,140,975,104 bytes (5856 MiB)
SHA1: BBB1B234EA7F5397A1906EE59187087C78374F35

Name: Windows10-x64-22H2.iso MediaCreationTool22H2.exe formulation
Size: 4,783,996,928 bytes (4562 MiB)
SHA1: A516A7BF07AF9C762A9D9F46E0D2C40CEACB4F4C

One of them has the Educational version, the other does not.
The discs differ in the number of SKUs on the disc. Both
setups use decent compression.

If your tool-age uses FAT32 for a storage partition type,
the ESD or WIM file might be too large for FAT32,
and you'd have to check that. Many of the other files
are not large enough to endanger a FAT32 packaging.

As far as I know, there are also ways to split a WIM
into WIM-chunks, and the mounter still knows how to handle
such a thing. It might be possible for Microsoft to reformulate
so that packaging as FAT32 partition on an 8GB stick would work.

Other packaging methods may use NTFS, which has no 4GB size limit
for files, and the files can be larger.

There are also recipes for reducing the number of SKUs on
the disc to just one. For example, I have made Win10Pro installer
discs from the generic discs above. And that saves a bit of space.
It's possible if you have a Macrium rescue preparation kit, that
you had the missing file to do that. Otherwise, you might have
to download an entire WADK to get it.

(After messing around with an ISO, this is how you re-pack it.
F:\WORK is the directory I was preparing the materials.)

oscdimg -m -o -u2 -udfver102 -bootdata:2#p0,e,bF:\WORK\boot\etfsboot.com#pEF,e,bF:\WORK\efi\Microsoft\boot\efisys.bin F:\WORK F:\W190364.iso

(from https://www.intowindows.com/how-to-add-files-to-bootable-iso-in-windows/ )

And this is how you edit a WIM. That changes the payload of the installer
DVD, from seven OS versions to only one. And then you have to check and
make sure that "6" is really the flavor you were after. There is an index file
with the information, inside the WIM. The WIM can be opened by 7ZIP.

Dism /Export-Image /SourceImageFile:install.wim /SourceIndex:6 /DestinationImageFile:newinstall.wim

There is room for plenty of fun. This is what the OP lives for, this kind of fun.

Well, compare to what you'd have to do on other platforms.
Every platform has a surprise or two... Not even an Apple
installer DVD is easy to use. You have to know what you are
doing, and have crib notes in front of you. You'll never figure it
out from the prompts.

On tenforums.com, you should see the size of the crib notes for Windows 10 :-)

One of the traps on a Linux disc (like a Debian), is accidentally
selecting the function to "erase disk and install my OS". And
strangely, some of the users have stuff they actually wanted to keep.
I had an entire disk drive of selected Linux OSes, get wiped out that way.
And I swear to you, I did NOT click the button to do that, but
that's what happened anyway.

Paul

g***@aol.com

2024-01-13 07:23:44 UTC

Post by Paul

Post by g***@aol.com

[Long story of problems deleted.]

If you don't really trust the "mystery install dvd", since you have a
product activation key, why don't you just download the Windows 10
installation media from the horse's mouth?
'Download Windows 10'
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10>
As far as I know this method still works, provided you have a product
activation key, which you have. (I'm sure Winston, Paul, etc. will
correct me if I'm wrong about this. I'm not sure if Winston follows
this group. Would probably have been better if you'd crossposted to the
Windows 10 group (alt.comp.os.windows-10).)
If a DVD is not big enough or don't want to burn a DVD, you can use a
USB memory stick ('flash drive') or ISO file.
[...]

I had to use a USB stick and in spite of them saying 8g was big
enough, it wasn't. A 32g stick worked OK tho.

The file comes in two sizes.
Name: Win10_22H2_English_x64v1.iso (Direct download link)
Size: 6,140,975,104 bytes (5856 MiB)
SHA1: BBB1B234EA7F5397A1906EE59187087C78374F35
Name: Windows10-x64-22H2.iso MediaCreationTool22H2.exe formulation
Size: 4,783,996,928 bytes (4562 MiB)
SHA1: A516A7BF07AF9C762A9D9F46E0D2C40CEACB4F4C
One of them has the Educational version, the other does not.
The discs differ in the number of SKUs on the disc. Both
setups use decent compression.
If your tool-age uses FAT32 for a storage partition type,
the ESD or WIM file might be too large for FAT32,
and you'd have to check that. Many of the other files
are not large enough to endanger a FAT32 packaging.
As far as I know, there are also ways to split a WIM
into WIM-chunks, and the mounter still knows how to handle
such a thing. It might be possible for Microsoft to reformulate
so that packaging as FAT32 partition on an 8GB stick would work.
Other packaging methods may use NTFS, which has no 4GB size limit
for files, and the files can be larger.
There are also recipes for reducing the number of SKUs on
the disc to just one. For example, I have made Win10Pro installer
discs from the generic discs above. And that saves a bit of space.
It's possible if you have a Macrium rescue preparation kit, that
you had the missing file to do that. Otherwise, you might have
to download an entire WADK to get it.
(After messing around with an ISO, this is how you re-pack it.
F:\WORK is the directory I was preparing the materials.)
oscdimg -m -o -u2 -udfver102 -bootdata:2#p0,e,bF:\WORK\boot\etfsboot.com#pEF,e,bF:\WORK\efi\Microsoft\boot\efisys.bin F:\WORK F:\W190364.iso
(from https://www.intowindows.com/how-to-add-files-to-bootable-iso-in-windows/ )
And this is how you edit a WIM. That changes the payload of the installer
DVD, from seven OS versions to only one. And then you have to check and
make sure that "6" is really the flavor you were after. There is an index file
with the information, inside the WIM. The WIM can be opened by 7ZIP.
Dism /Export-Image /SourceImageFile:install.wim /SourceIndex:6 /DestinationImageFile:newinstall.wim
There is room for plenty of fun. This is what the OP lives for, this kind of fun.
Well, compare to what you'd have to do on other platforms.
Every platform has a surprise or two... Not even an Apple
installer DVD is easy to use. You have to know what you are
doing, and have crib notes in front of you. You'll never figure it
out from the prompts.
On tenforums.com, you should see the size of the crib notes for Windows 10 :-)
One of the traps on a Linux disc (like a Debian), is accidentally
selecting the function to "erase disk and install my OS". And
strangely, some of the users have stuff they actually wanted to keep.
I had an entire disk drive of selected Linux OSes, get wiped out that way.
And I swear to you, I did NOT click the button to do that, but
that's what happened anyway.
Paul

I seem to remember some prompting to get me through a command line re
partitioning in NTFS. Dunno It was when I was screwing with those $40
Dell laptops and one needed to be rebuilt. (password missing). I
couldn't find 7 drivers or it would be 7.

J. P. Gilliver

2024-01-14 01:23:38 UTC

(Three times!)
[]

Actually I wanted to get you guy's guesstimations (see my original
post) of why my sick usb ports miraculous self-healing overnight. They
only messed up on the boot (if I left a flash drive plugged in).

Can't comment on your "miraculous self-healing", but I do agree it's
best not to leave USB drives plugged in while closing down or booting.
I've not encountered problems often enough to say anything definitive
(different makes/models, what's on the drive), but I have had it either
make the process much longer, or stop it altogether.
[]

It looks to me like the only thing I can download from that site is an
18meg MediaCreationTool, which when clicked on does nothing.

It might just be being very slow. Including possibly just trying to
access a busy server at long intervals. (Does a relevant entry remain in
Task Manager?)
[]

My Windows10 install is on back-burner till after the weekend. I'll
keep you posted about my travails.

As others have said, you almost certainly should include a W10 'group in
your posting.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"The wish of the lazy to allow unsupervised access [to the internet] to their
children should not reduce all adults browsing to the level of suitability for a
five-year-old." Yaman Akdeniz, quoted in Inter//face (The Times, 1999-2-10): p12

Paul

2024-01-14 08:08:00 UTC

[Long story of problems deleted.]

Actually I was hoping to get you guy's guesstimates of of the why's of
my miraculous usb ports overnight self-healing.(see my original post)
They would only mess up on the boot if I left a drive plugged in to
the port when booting. Up in and OS they worked ok.

USB ports are protected on desktops, with a Polyfuse. It
is a type of fuse that resets itself. It is based on
a chemical which exists in crystal form. One state of the
chemical conducts, the other state does not. When the
fuse cools off, it re-crystallizes.

The value on the fuse, is for more than the typically-quoted
value for a USB port. A USB2 port is 500mA, but the fuse allows
more than that. A USB3 port is 900mA, and again, the fuse
is for more than 900mA. It takes a decent insult to open the fuse.
For example, plugging in two 2.5" HDD on USB2 ports (one above
the other), will pop the fuse. Only one HDD should sit in a
stack-of-two configuration. If there are two stacks, you put
one drive on one stack, the second drive on the second stack.

+--------+ +--------+
| 2.5HDD |USB2 | 2.5HDD |USB2 For HDD with 1.0A spinup
+--------+ +--------+ current on VBUS, you put
+--------+ +--------+ only one HDD per USB2 stack.
| |USB2 | |USB2 USB2 fuse is 1.1 amperes.
+--------+ +--------+ 2.5" HDD spinup current is 1.0 amperes

USB3 ports generally have larger fusing and
are not as much of a problem when used this way.

The ATX power supply has a label on it, and a rating for +5VSB.
Modern motherboards power USB ports from +5VSB. If the power supply
only has 2.5A or 3.0A rating, you can potentially run out of +5VSB
power. If you draw too much current, and it does not pop any fuses,
the ATX supply can current limit, and the PC would shut off. Perhaps
charging an iPhone on a specially marked charging port and "doing
one other thing" would cause the PC to shut off. But there are not
a lot of reports of anything matching those symptoms, so you
don't have to worry too much about this. But opening a fuse,
by putting two WD Passport external drives onto the same stack,
that has happened.

3.5" HDD have their own power brick for the wall outlet, and so you can
place them without having to worry about popping a fuse. Such drives
mainly use the port for its data signals, and don't draw appreciable
current from the port hole.

Paul

John B. Smith

2024-01-17 15:39:02 UTC

Post by Paul

[Long story of problems deleted.]

USB ports are protected on desktops, with a Polyfuse. It
is a type of fuse that resets itself. It is based on
a chemical which exists in crystal form. One state of the
chemical conducts, the other state does not. When the
fuse cools off, it re-crystallizes.
The value on the fuse, is for more than the typically-quoted
value for a USB port. A USB2 port is 500mA, but the fuse allows
more than that. A USB3 port is 900mA, and again, the fuse
is for more than 900mA. It takes a decent insult to open the fuse.
For example, plugging in two 2.5" HDD on USB2 ports (one above
the other), will pop the fuse. Only one HDD should sit in a
stack-of-two configuration. If there are two stacks, you put
one drive on one stack, the second drive on the second stack.
+--------+ +--------+
| 2.5HDD |USB2 | 2.5HDD |USB2 For HDD with 1.0A spinup
+--------+ +--------+ current on VBUS, you put
+--------+ +--------+ only one HDD per USB2 stack.
| |USB2 | |USB2 USB2 fuse is 1.1 amperes.
+--------+ +--------+ 2.5" HDD spinup current is 1.0 amperes
USB3 ports generally have larger fusing and
are not as much of a problem when used this way.
The ATX power supply has a label on it, and a rating for +5VSB.
Modern motherboards power USB ports from +5VSB. If the power supply
only has 2.5A or 3.0A rating, you can potentially run out of +5VSB
power. If you draw too much current, and it does not pop any fuses,
the ATX supply can current limit, and the PC would shut off. Perhaps
charging an iPhone on a specially marked charging port and "doing
one other thing" would cause the PC to shut off. But there are not
a lot of reports of anything matching those symptoms, so you
don't have to worry too much about this. But opening a fuse,
by putting two WD Passport external drives onto the same stack,
that has happened.
3.5" HDD have their own power brick for the wall outlet, and so you can
place them without having to worry about popping a fuse. Such drives
mainly use the port for its data signals, and don't draw appreciable
current from the port hole.
Paul

Don't know if this will post or not, haven't been able to post for
days. Suspect my ISP but it's a great mystery. Good to get the info
about the poly fuse, Paul, that's a mystery cleared up. Regarding the
Windows10 installation I did go ahead with the dvd I bought.
Inadequate instructions (written by salesman? lazy technician?) I
backed up everything on my boot drive, booted their dvd with only my
storage drive connected first time, scouting out the land. It
presented me with a pic of the drive and opportunity to choose the
partition where I wanted to install. I then booted the dvd with two
drives connected (BIG NO-NO). Fortunately for me the dvd refused to
install on the partition I chose, god knows what it might have
destroyed. The biggest tip I have is: ONLY HANG ONE HARD DRIVE WHEN
INSTALLING! Been nice if they could have told me that in the
directions. Eventually Win10 wrote itself into my chosen partition
(the third primary on my boot drive). On reboot (after taking the
CDROM off the boot sequence in the BIOS) the Win10 selection showed in
my boot menu. And it even booted! There remained an hour's worth of
bullshit to answer before I actually got into Win10 itself.

Brian Gregory

2024-01-13 00:47:14 UTC

Post by c***@verizon.net
I had tested my new Travelers usb drive sloppily, can't remember how,
I thought it worked. I decided to boot XP to see if I'd already
screwed that partition up with the Win10 dvd. Instead it hung up
solidly with a '50' on motherboard display, which decoded to usb
failed. Removed the offending Travelers usb drive and it booted to XP.
Tried to test the Travelers and XP could not use it at all.
The Travelers flash drive is
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CHNYDFYZ?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1
I believe my usb ports are 2.0
I'm grateful my problem healed itself but would like to understand
what was happening???

Some of the reviews on Amazon indicate they are fake and are not 1TB and
also not as fast as claimed.

People in general are so ignorant that fake drives often get 95% or more
positive reviews. Always check the worst (1 star) reviews.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

John B. Smith

2024-01-17 14:02:19 UTC

On Sat, 13 Jan 2024 00:47:14 +0000, Brian Gregory

Some of the reviews on Amazon indicate they are fake and are not 1TB and
also not as fast as claimed.
People in general are so ignorant that fake drives often get 95% or more
positive reviews. Always check the worst (1 star) reviews.

test. haven't been able to post for days.

Brian Gregory

2024-01-17 16:42:38 UTC

Post by John B. Smith
test. haven't been able to post for days.

You've posted a lot of annoying test messages which did come through.

Perhaps you weren't able to see them.

Maybe the news service you use (Giganews?) banned you for posting a link
to a fake USB thumb drive on Amazon?

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

c***@nycap.rr.com

2024-01-17 21:56:31 UTC

On Wed, 17 Jan 2024 16:42:38 +0000, Brian Gregory

Post by John B. Smith
test. haven't been able to post for days.

You've posted a lot of annoying test messages which did come through.
Perhaps you weren't able to see them.
Maybe the news service you use (Giganews?) banned you for posting a link
to a fake USB thumb drive on Amazon?

Interesting, I received no notice from them about it. And, come to
find out my 'test' messages DID come through, as you say, just not in
the place I expected to find them.

Paul

2024-01-17 23:22:20 UTC

Post by c***@nycap.rr.com
On Wed, 17 Jan 2024 16:42:38 +0000, Brian Gregory

Post by John B. Smith
test. haven't been able to post for days.

You've posted a lot of annoying test messages which did come through.
Perhaps you weren't able to see them.
Maybe the news service you use (Giganews?) banned you for posting a link
to a fake USB thumb drive on Amazon?

Interesting, I received no notice from them about it. And, come to
find out my 'test' messages DID come through, as you say, just not in
the place I expected to find them.

It helps to give your messages "unique" Subject text.

That's because, in a vacuum, the software will "thread"
a post by the Subject only, and join it onto the end
of a Test post from some other person.

It is possible there is some setting for the "view" in your
reader, such as hiding messages that have already been read,
not having threading engaged (so all the messages in a thread
are together). These are things we cannot imagine on our end,
to debug just by your descriptions of the odd thing.

[Picture]

Loading Image...

Normally, body text should be a minimum of a small finite amount.
On some servers, a small body or zero body, could result in the message being
thrown away entirely (hash check).

Paul

c***@nycap.rr.com

2024-01-18 02:47:54 UTC

Post by Paul

Post by c***@nycap.rr.com
On Wed, 17 Jan 2024 16:42:38 +0000, Brian Gregory