Anti-virus for Windows 8.1?

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Nil

2024-12-09 21:08:16 UTC

Since there's no activity in the Win8 group and the question also
applies to Win7, I'll ask here:

Can anyone recommend a free anti-virus program for Windows 8.1? My
friend has been using Avast Free, but it nags to upgrade to the pay
version so frequently and misleadingly, he keeps signing up for it. I'm
not there when it happens to guide him.

David E. Ross

2024-12-09 21:32:00 UTC

Permalink

Post by Nil
Since there's no activity in the Win8 group and the question also
Can anyone recommend a free anti-virus program for Windows 8.1? My
friend has been using Avast Free, but it nags to upgrade to the pay
version so frequently and misleadingly, he keeps signing up for it. I'm
not there when it happens to guide him.

I use Avast's AVG AntiVirus free. It nags me only for a limited time.
It resumes nagging when I update it to a newer version, again only for a
limited time.

I very much prefer installing new applications and updating old ones
from full installers instead of stub installers. With anti-virus
applications, this is important since I suspect I have no protection
while installing. I get a full installer for a newer version of AVG at
<https://www.avg.com/download-thank-you.php?product=FREEGSR-OFFLINE>. I
then disable my Internet connection, remove the existing version,
install the newer version, and then enable my Internet connection.

Removing the older version of AVG before installing a newer version
sometimes works only if I indeed do this removal. I use AVGClear from
<https://www.avg.com/download-thank-you.php?product=REM>.

--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rosde.com/>

Paris mayor quits X platform, calling it a 'gigantic global sewer'.
Others characterize X (previously known as Twitter) as the place
where truth goes to die.

Jeff Barnett

2024-12-10 02:19:57 UTC

Permalink

Post by David E. Ross

I use Avast's AVG AntiVirus free. It nags me only for a limited time.
It resumes nagging when I update it to a newer version, again only for a
limited time.
I very much prefer installing new applications and updating old ones
from full installers instead of stub installers. With anti-virus
applications, this is important since I suspect I have no protection
while installing. I get a full installer for a newer version of AVG at
<https://www.avg.com/download-thank-you.php?product=FREEGSR-OFFLINE>. I
then disable my Internet connection, remove the existing version,
install the newer version, and then enable my Internet connection.
Removing the older version of AVG before installing a newer version
sometimes works only if I indeed do this removal. I use AVGClear from
<https://www.avg.com/download-thank-you.php?product=REM>.

A few months ago I asked a similar question about protection for my
older machines. The only recommendations I received from this newsgroup
was AVG. I tried it and found its approach to user interactions
offensive in addition to technically incomprehensibly bad. There where
no redeeming features or technical virtues to be found. I reported my
experiences with the following. You may find it interesting. If you have
or do try it, I would be fascinated to know whether you agree with my
assessment and if not, in what particulars you disagree.

----------------- Original Message Follows ------------------------
A while ago I inquired, in this forum, for an anti-virus solution for
machines still running Windows 7. I was motivated to do so because ESET,
my then AV solution, said they would no longer support Win7. Several of
you were kind enough to recommend AVG which I downloaded and installed
after excising ESET. The purpose of this email is to pass on my
evaluation of AVG. I am now running paid copies on one Windows 10 laptop
and two Windows 7 desktops. Since this is not a mystery story I will
give you my conclusion upfront: AVG stinks.

AD SPAMMING
-----------
AVG has a free version that I tried first. It was so infested with ads
to purchase various versions of AVG that using it was like wading
through molasses. Well you can't blame someone giving you a freebie from
trying to sell something can you? So I bought a 10-license deal for what
is called "AVG Internet Security". However that did not stop mixing spam
and sales pitches into every interaction with the product. This is bad
enough to drop star ratings to three even if every other aspect of AVG
was perfect.

NETWORK TRUST
-------------
On the Windows 10 and only one of 2 Windows 7 machine installations was
I ask if the network (my LAN) should be trusted. I answered yes when
asked. (Wired network with wireless mesh components in through router.
Wireless demands password. Guest network not enabled.) On third machine
poked around and found a place to set network as trusted. Found "Network
Inspector" in interface that proclaimed network was Public and not
trusted, i.e., ignoring the setting. Incessant email back and forth with
Support and usual unhelpful suggestions, e.g., uninstall and completely
reinstall, etc. No help. Promise to escalate, etc., about a week ago.
Haven't heard from them. Yesterday, a popup that pronounced network
trusted. Presume there was a bug fix included in regular update. So why
not tell me that were working on it and save me the torture of following
their useless instructions??

CONNECTION TRUST
----------------
One of AVG's most popular and frequent popups is the one that asks you
if you want to block or allow a connection and whether this
specification is temporary, one time, or forever. Unfortunately the
question says something like "app.exe is attempting to connect to URL
x.y.z.w". Examples of app are node and svchost. The problem with node is
there is a half dozen of them on my C disk and I am not told which one
it is talking about. An additional problem with svchost is that there
are approximately 20 active processes that are supervised by svchost on
my computer and I'm not told its arguments. So asking such questions is
a shifting of responsibility from AVG to the user: if you don't answer
or answer incorrectly it is your fault if a danger survives or a vital
computation is denied resources. If some net traffic is blocked because
you have answered an AVG query improperly, there is no reasonable way to
find out what the block is and reconsider your (not AVG's) decision. So
some computation is now stuck in the mud and no inspection tools are
available.

PERIODIC SCANS
--------------
During installation you will be encouraged to set up a periodic malware
scan. If you don't do it then, you will be occasionally nagged until you
do. There is a note in small type where you set the periodicity and
start date of the scan that says approximately "Scan will not be run
unless your computer is on." but I think "is on" might mean "is awake".
Further, there is no offer to run scan at earliest available time if
computer is "off = asleep" at scheduled time. No log is made unless you
check the last option in a very long list of options and if you do
select logging, the logs are left in "Program Data" on the system disk
so users can play around in that directory! Though it isn't quite enough
I do have some control over what will be scanned. Example, I have a
choice (among hard disks) to scan system disk or all disks. It so
happens that besides my system disk (an SSD) I have two 4TB spinners:
one to hold backup files and the other is my main data repository. I'm
not able to schedule a scan of the system and data disks without
including the terabytes on the backup disk. Ridiculous.

FREEBIE SERVICES
----------------
Occasional during installation or after scans you will be informed that
there are myriad problems but you will not be told enough to decide if
you care. For examples: You have a whole bunch of backups (restore
points), would like them deleted? Since you are not shown a list with
dates and given options as to what will be deleted, this is utter
nonsense. There are other let Papa AVG decide what's important to you
without any visibility to user of what will be done or user controlled
selections. There is an app that scans for sensitive documents that
might contain passwords, etc., and you are ask if you want to protect
all of them. I got tired of looking through the list but I think it
mostly consisted of every pdf document on the computer. There was no
attempt to find the few documents that might actually benefit from some
sort of protection.

BLING IS THE THING
------------------
An examination of the above list should show two trends: The first is to
assume the user is an idiot and will be impressed by copious amounts of
GUI bling with no substance whatsoever behind it. The second is that
they ask users questions that they can't possibly answer with the
information provided, probably so that if anything goes wrong the user
can be blamed.

QUESTION
--------
Any suggestions of a reasonable AV product for a couple of Windows 7
machines?

--
Jeff Barnett

Paul

2024-12-10 02:44:57 UTC

Permalink

I use Avast's AVG AntiVirus free. It nags me only for a limited time.
It resumes nagging when I update it to a newer version, again only for a
limited time.
I very much prefer installing new applications and updating old ones
from full installers instead of stub installers. With anti-virus
applications, this is important since I suspect I have no protection
while installing. I get a full installer for a newer version of AVG at
<https://www.avg.com/download-thank-you.php?product=FREEGSR-OFFLINE>. I
then disable my Internet connection, remove the existing version,
install the newer version, and then enable my Internet connection.
Removing the older version of AVG before installing a newer version
sometimes works only if I indeed do this removal. I use AVGClear from
<https://www.avg.com/download-thank-you.php?product=REM>.

I hope none of us gave you the impression, that the AV companies were your friend :-)

You will notice there has been some consolidation in the AV industry,
and your conclusion might be, less of a need for the remaining
companies to care what you think of them.

You might track down AVComparatives, and read a few articles there,
to see what is left of the industry and where to turn. The answer
won't necessarily be affirmative.

Any company can start with the ClamAV signature database (Cisco Talos does the maintenance).
And from there, it's skillz all the way up. Without heuristic detection,
a product would be mostly useless. Even the Firefox browser, has a small
amount of code that is a heuristic detection (stack smashing detection).
Even applications have resorted to trying to protect you. Whether this
is a good idea, who knows.

If you look at the scan results of Virustotal, you might notice that
around roughly 1/3rd of the inferior products, can't even *unpack* all
the materials, to scan them! Yikes. They don't have the thirty plus
unpackers. Some unscrupulous code, is obfuscated with two packers.
You need two tools then, to undo the packing and expose the goods
needing a scan. The tools named in groups like this, are likely
to pass such a test.

Summary:
1) ClamAV database at a minimum.
2) Equipped with the thirty plus unpackers, to properly scan goods.
3) The value added is heuristic detection, and this is provided
by the two actual experts at a company, who work alongside the
other 998 employees. Surprisingly few AV companies have
heuristic detection (can detect new or novel malwares, which are
the real enemy).

AVComparatives attempts to measure some of these properties, but not all.

Most reviews, tend to ignore the snake oil aspect of the tools. Such
as the "we found 8000 errors" notification on the screen at startup.
Who does not like a joke ? I know I'm in good hands, when I see
the same "8000 errors" every day when I boot up.

Paul

Win 11 User

2024-12-09 23:34:50 UTC

Permalink

Tell your friend to upgrade the operating system to windows 10 to get
free anti-virus program from Microsoft.

Get license here: use COUPON CODE: CAREY

<https://www.scdkey.com/key/201609081840431227.html?urd=carey1>

Cost: $14.71 after 30% discount.

Frank Slootweg

2024-12-10 11:10:28 UTC

Permalink

If your friend is tempted to upgrade to the pay version of Avast,
(s)he probably shouldn't be running an unsupported operating system,
because it's doubtful that (s)he can practice safe hex, etc..

That said, I used to use Avast Free on Windows 8.1 (and before on
Vista and XP) and don't consider the nagging all that bad, especially
if, as another poster mentioned, you don't update the program unless
required (of course you *do* (automatically) update the virus
definitions).

Also I thought that there was a free anti-virus product from
Microsoft for Windows 8.1 (and perhaps even Windows 7). (Windows
Security Essentials or some such?) If so, perhaps others can give some
pointers on those.

Paul

2024-12-10 11:45:50 UTC

Permalink

Post by Frank Slootweg

If your friend is tempted to upgrade to the pay version of Avast,
(s)he probably shouldn't be running an unsupported operating system,
because it's doubtful that (s)he can practice safe hex, etc..
That said, I used to use Avast Free on Windows 8.1 (and before on
Vista and XP) and don't consider the nagging all that bad, especially
if, as another poster mentioned, you don't update the program unless
required (of course you *do* (automatically) update the virus
definitions).
Also I thought that there was a free anti-virus product from
Microsoft for Windows 8.1 (and perhaps even Windows 7). (Windows
Security Essentials or some such?) If so, perhaps others can give some
pointers on those.

You can use the definitions download page, for some pointers at versions of things.
You'll need wiki, to "decode" these names and the history.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wdsi/defenderupdates

Microsoft Defender Antivirus for Windows 11, Windows 10, Windows 8.1, and Windows Server 32-bit | 64-bit | ARM

Microsoft Security Essentials 32-bit | 64-bit

Windows Defender in Windows 7 and Windows Vista 32-bit | 64-bit

Microsoft Diagnostics and Recovery Toolset (DaRT) 32-bit | 64-bit
System Center 2012 Configuration Manager 32-bit | 64-bit
System Center 2012 Endpoint Protection 32-bit | 64-bit
Windows Intune

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Security_Essentials

"MSE provided real-time protection, constantly monitoring activities on the computer,
scanning new files as they are created or downloaded from the Internet.
"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Defender_Antivirus

"Windows Defender was released with Windows Vista and Windows 7,
serving as their built-in anti-spyware component.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Suspected weak sauce

In Windows Vista and Windows 7, Windows Defender was superseded by
Microsoft Security Essentials, an antivirus product from Microsoft which
provided protection against a wider range of malware. Upon installation,
Microsoft Security Essentials disabled and replaced Windows Defender.[41][42]

In Windows 8, Microsoft upgraded Windows Defender into an antivirus program
very similar to Microsoft Security Essentials for Windows 7,[4] and it also
uses the same anti-malware engine and virus definitions from MSE.

Microsoft Security Essentials itself does not run on Windows versions beyond 7.[41]

In Windows 8 or later, Microsoft Defender Antivirus is on by default. It switches
itself off upon installation of a third-party anti-virus package.
"

The marketing naming conventions leave a bit to be desired.

You would need to check the installed applications, to get some idea what is on a machine.

Paul

Ammammata

2024-12-10 11:50:25 UTC

Permalink

Post by Frank Slootweg
Also I thought that there was a free anti-virus product from
Microsoft for Windows 8.1 (and perhaps even Windows 7). (Windows
Security Essentials or some such?) If so, perhaps others can give some
pointers on those.

last time I had a win8.1 in my hands, a few months ago, I saw the MS
antivirus was still running and updated

it's since w7 that I don't use other than MS antivirus (or
wheteverthehell they call it)

actually, there's a windows 7 running on an old pc in the other room,
and its MSE has been updated yesterday afternoon

virus/spyware definition 1.421.696.0

--
/-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ T /-\
-=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- - -=-
........... [ al lavoro ] ...........

Frank Slootweg

2024-12-10 15:33:31 UTC

Permalink

Post by Frank Slootweg

[...]

See Paul's post on Microsoft Security Essentials (for Windows 7) and
Microsoft Windows Defender (for Windows 8.1).

For Windows 8.1, Microsoft Windows Defender is apparently built-in and
you only have to enable it (and disable and probably uninstall Avast
Free).

Not sure if this still works after Windows 8.1 went out of support in
early 2023, but it's worth a try.

As to how to enable Microsoft Windows Defender on Windows 8.1, see for
example this document:

'How to enable the Windows Defender in Windows 8 and 8.1.'
<https://www.sony-asia.com/electronics/support/articles/00047392>

A quick Google search on "Microsoft Security Essentials for Windows 7"
indicates that Microsoft Security Essentials is no longer available from
Microsoft for new installs and that signature updates have probably
ceased in 2023 or so. So Microsoft Security Essentials is no longer an
option for Windows 7.

dillinger

2024-12-10 19:36:06 UTC

Permalink

Post by Frank Slootweg
For Windows 8.1, Microsoft Windows Defender is apparently built-in and
you only have to enable it (and disable and probably uninstall Avast
Free).
Not sure if this still works after Windows 8.1 went out of support in
early 2023, but it's worth a try.
As to how to enable Microsoft Windows Defender on Windows 8.1, see for
'How to enable the Windows Defender in Windows 8 and 8.1.'
<https://www.sony-asia.com/electronics/support/articles/00047392>
A quick Google search on "Microsoft Security Essentials for Windows 7"
indicates that Microsoft Security Essentials is no longer available from
Microsoft for new installs and that signature updates have probably
ceased in 2023 or so. So Microsoft Security Essentials is no longer an
option for Windows 7.

Although officially not supported anymore, Windows Defender sill runs
and updates on Windows 8.1.

Last update details:

Security Intelligence Update for Microsoft Defender Antivirus -
KB2267602 (Version 1.421.707.0) - Current Channel (Broad)

Installation date: ‎12/‎10/‎2024 5:44 AM

Installation status: Succeeded

Update type: Important

Install this update to revise the files that are used to detect viruses,
spyware, and other potentially unwanted software. Once you have
installed this item, it cannot be removed.

More information:
https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=2007160

Help and Support:
https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?

Spalls Hurgenson

2024-12-10 15:48:18 UTC

Permalink

Post by Frank Slootweg

If your friend is tempted to upgrade to the pay version of Avast,
(s)he probably shouldn't be running an unsupported operating system,
because it's doubtful that (s)he can practice safe hex, etc..
That said, I used to use Avast Free on Windows 8.1 (and before on
Vista and XP) and don't consider the nagging all that bad, especially
if, as another poster mentioned, you don't update the program unless
required (of course you *do* (automatically) update the virus
definitions).
Also I thought that there was a free anti-virus product from
Microsoft for Windows 8.1 (and perhaps even Windows 7). (Windows
Security Essentials or some such?) If so, perhaps others can give some
pointers on those.

I never thought the nagging so bad with Avast, but boy-oh-boy is there
a definite and noticable slow-down when using it. Its most notable at
boot-up (especially if its been several days since last time the PC
started as Avast does its update invisibly in the background) but even
for normal writes and reads there's a hit.

I recently 'decommissioned' one of my old Win7 PCs, and one of the
things I did was uninstall the antivirus (the system isn't connected
to the net and any programs installed get passed through antivirus on
other machines first so I'm not too worried about the lack of
protection). I'd still rank the machine itself as being quite capable
(3rd gen I7, 8GB; it can play games fairly well ;-) but even so there
was a noticable improvement in performance after I removed Avast.

My conclusion: Avast has gotten bloated past usefulness, especially on
older machines.

The scary thing is... it's STILL better than Symantec's shit. ;-)

s|b

2024-12-10 21:30:41 UTC

Permalink

Post by Frank Slootweg
That said, I used to use Avast Free on Windows 8.1 (and before on
Vista and XP) and don't consider the nagging all that bad, especially
if, as another poster mentioned, you don't update the program unless
required (of course you *do* (automatically) update the virus
definitions).

I used to install Avast, but that ended quickly when they were convicted
of selling data.

<https://www.reuters.com/technology/us-ftc-proposes-order-banning-avast-selling-browsing-data-ads-2024-02-22/>

Defender, but I believe support will end at January 2025, with the
exception of W11.

--
s|b

Mr. Man-wai Chang

2024-12-11 10:40:32 UTC

Permalink

BitDefender Free???

Nil

2024-12-12 02:23:46 UTC

Permalink

Post by Mr. Man-wai Chang

Post by Nil
Since there's no activity in the Win8 group and the question also
Can anyone recommend a free anti-virus program for Windows 8.1?
My friend has been using Avast Free, but it nags to upgrade to
the pay version so frequently and misleadingly, he keeps signing
up for it. I'm not there when it happens to guide him.

BitDefender Free???

I'll check it out. Looks promising at first glance. Thanks!