Somebody smarten me up. What the hell is this PIN nonsense?

Post by Vic
What happened to serial numbers or passwords?
What is this damn complicated PIN crap?
What is so magic about a PIN - whatever the hell that is - over a
password or a serial number?
All of a sudden you have to be a tech to god damn buy a comp and get
it working?
I'm stupid. I'm still using Windows 7. What the hell is this PIN
thing?

The distinction they draw here, is for Enterprise users on a domain.
On a domain, the password is the same everywhere. Which means once
you know the password, you can get in anywhere.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/identity-protection/hello-for-business/hello-why-pin-is-better-than-password

For a home user (one not using a domain server), the password
for an account, could be different on every machine.

Vic Machine1 Password = Aardvark Pin = 1234 Not much difference really...
Vic Machine2 Password = Xylophone Pin = 4321 Each scheme has the same security
(you can make PINs longer if you want)

On the Enterprise case

Vic Machine1 Password = 12345Sept Pin = 1234 Now, the authentication is machine dependent
Vic Machine2 Password = 12345Sept Pin = 4321 by using the PIN, and the user has to remember these too.
And real people, won't use different pins on every machine.
That would be nuts.

You're not missing much here. This isn't a cure for cancer.

Paul

Vic

2023-09-15 03:59:14 UTC

Post by Paul

It ain't a cure for anything. It's a cause for more aggravation. A
Redmond speciality.

Absolutely flipp'ng ridiculous.

Thanks for answering with the link, but I'm staying with 7 until the
damn machine melts on the table. Screw Redmond and Gate's already
overly fat wallet.

Newyana2

2023-09-15 12:16:53 UTC

"Vic" <***@smurfing.com> wrote

| Thanks for answering with the link, but I'm staying with 7 until the
| damn machine melts on the table. Screw Redmond and Gate's already
| overly fat wallet.

The undeclared purpose here is that PIN stands for
personal ID -- like you use at an ATM. It's all part of
MS getting you accustomed to renting your computer
functionality from them.

In the case above it was a used machine, probably
from a business. They seller neglected to remove the
restriction. I have Win10 and 11 and neither has any
password. A password has always been optional. If
you get a screen to enter one you just leave it blank.
I set up a BIOS password on some machines. The reason
for that is that I trust the woman I live with, but if
someone breaks in and steals computers then I want to
have time to go online and change passwords before
the crook finds them on the stolen hard disk.

I also heard that Win11 would require me to create a
Microsoft account. But that seems to be a lie. It's
like cellphone companies who tell you that you have to
have a gmail address for an Android phone. You only
need that if you want to buy crap apps at the "Windows
Store". When I updated 10 to 11 I unplugged the network
cable while the "offline updater" ran. Afterward it activated
with no problems and never bugged me about setting up
an account.

Which is not to say you should get 10/11. It's a broken
spyware system that requires a pile of tweaking tools and
arcane adjustments to achieve reasonable civility. Win7
is also a bit of a mess, but not as bad as 10/11. Microsoft
have very gradually been imposing restrictions and claiming
ownership. They're trying to sell Windows as a "bring-
your-own-hardware service". They now even describe
Windows as a service, justifying spying on you. At the
same time, the system has become increasingly bloated over
the years, with no housecleaning. So at this point a system
that used to require 1 GB of space is likely to require more
like 20+. My compressed disk images are about 17GB. Just
the updater from 10 to 11, with little noticeable difference
between the two, is over 5 GB compresed!

So stick with Win7 as long as you can. If you want to
have a better chance of waiting, clone and replace the
hard disk. Any original hard disk running Win7 would be
up to 13 years old now -- due for a crash.

J. P. Gilliver

2023-09-15 12:54:35 UTC

In message <ue1i18$37tmt$***@dont-email.me> at Fri, 15 Sep 2023 08:16:53,
Newyana2 <***@invalid.nospam> writes
[]

Post by Newyana2
So stick with Win7 as long as you can. If you want to
have a better chance of waiting, clone and replace the
hard disk. Any original hard disk running Win7 would be
up to 13 years old now -- due for a crash.

Or at least image it frequently. (Macrium 5 or 6 are fine with W7,
though I'm not sure there's any advantage in not using a later version -
I've just got Macrium on a CD against the time I need to use it, and
haven't made a new one. [5 and 6 actually fit on a mini-CD, which I
like.]

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If a cluttered desk is characteristic of a cluttered mind, what does an empty
desk mean ?

Newyana2

2023-09-15 17:08:55 UTC

"J. P. Gilliver" <***@255soft.uk> wrote

| > So stick with Win7 as long as you can. If you want to
| >have a better chance of waiting, clone and replace the
| >hard disk. Any original hard disk running Win7 would be
| >up to 13 years old now -- due for a crash.
| >
| Or at least image it frequently.

That. too. But I see no reason to take chances. I bought
a 500 GB Samsung SSD last week for $40. At that price,
you can't afford not to buy them. :)

Vic

2023-09-15 13:26:06 UTC

Yeah, I read about that nonsense a while back. I think there will be a
way around that thanks to the hacker community. If this garbage ever
comes to fruition, I absolutely will change over to another OS if
necessary.

Post by Newyana2
In the case above it was a used machine, probably
from a business. They seller neglected to remove the
restriction. I have Win10 and 11 and neither has any
password. A password has always been optional. If
you get a screen to enter one you just leave it blank.
I set up a BIOS password on some machines. The reason
for that is that I trust the woman I live with, but if
someone breaks in and steals computers then I want to
have time to go online and change passwords before
the crook finds them on the stolen hard disk.

I tried full disk encryption on my XP comp a while back. It was too
big a problem for my way of doing things. Besides, I really don't
keep important info on any of my drives. I have five externals. They
are full of movies, vids and music. I keep personal info on TrueCrypt
volumes - containing looong and involved passphrases.

Post by Newyana2
I also heard that Win11 would require me to create a
Microsoft account. But that seems to be a lie. It's
like cellphone companies who tell you that you have to
have a gmail address for an Android phone. You only
need that if you want to buy crap apps at the "Windows
Store". When I updated 10 to 11 I unplugged the network
cable while the "offline updater" ran. Afterward it activated
with no problems and never bugged me about setting up
an account.
Which is not to say you should get 10/11. It's a broken
spyware system that requires a pile of tweaking tools and
arcane adjustments to achieve reasonable civility. Win7
is also a bit of a mess, but not as bad as 10/11.

Win 7 is a pain in the arse. The XP menu system is so simple and
direct to use. With 7, you have to dig through layers of menus to find
what is right in front of you in XP.

Post by Newyana2
Microsoft
have very gradually been imposing restrictions and claiming
ownership. They're trying to sell Windows as a "bring-
your-own-hardware service". They now even describe
Windows as a service, justifying spying on you. At the
same time, the system has become increasingly bloated over
the years, with no housecleaning. So at this point a system
that used to require 1 GB of space is likely to require more
like 20+. My compressed disk images are about 17GB. Just
the updater from 10 to 11, with little noticeable difference
between the two, is over 5 GB compresed!

Yeah, that's insane. As far as spyware goes, I operate in a type of
sandbox which keeps the C: clear of any downloaded crapola. When
using my browser, I constantly keep the cookie menu open and remove
them when changing sites. I keep a software firewall blocking the Web
from programs who have no business trying to access it. Ain't no tech,
I just do the simple stuff. I think I'm doing good because I haven't
had a single spam message sent to my e-mail account in years or popup
crap showing on my comp.

My 2 XP machines are older than that and still going. I use Hard Disk
Sentinel to keep watch on the health of my drives.

It's sad what the greedy bastards like MS, Google and others of that
ilk have done with the Internet. It's even more scary what they're
trying to do politically to America.

That's about it. I get headaches and a bleeding nose when I think this
much. :o)

J. P. Gilliver

2023-09-15 13:57:42 UTC

In message <***@40tude.net> at Fri, 15 Sep
2023 08:26:06, Vic <***@smurfing.com> writes
[]

Post by Vic
Win 7 is a pain in the arse. The XP menu system is so simple and
direct to use. With 7, you have to dig through layers of menus to find
what is right in front of you in XP.

Care to give an example? I too have found each change - 98SElite to XP,
XP to 7 (and 7 to 10 when I had to use 10), tedious, but I'm mostly used
to 7 now, and I _think_ there might be things in 7 that are easier than
they were in XP (though it's sufficiently long since I was on XP that
I'd probably be hard pressed to think of a specific). [Remember we're in
the 7 'group.]
[]

Post by Vic
Yeah, that's insane. As far as spyware goes, I operate in a type of
sandbox which keeps the C: clear of any downloaded crapola. When
using my browser, I constantly keep the cookie menu open and remove
them when changing sites. I keep a software firewall blocking the Web

Sounds a good policy, though a lot of work (and presumably you don't
ever have more than one site open, i. e. you don't use tabs).

Post by Vic
from programs who have no business trying to access it. Ain't no tech,
I just do the simple stuff. I think I'm doing good because I haven't
had a single spam message sent to my e-mail account in years or popup
crap showing on my comp.

Can't remember getting any spam messages this year - if I have, it's
less than 5, and they're obvious. (On my landline, I've sometimes had
more than 5 in a day of the "this is bank [or Visa] security" type!)

My 2 XP machines are older than that and still going. I use Hard Disk
Sentinel to keep watch on the health of my drives.

HDs are strange things; some seem to run for ever. (I use HD Tune if I'm
ever concerned.)

Post by Vic
It's sad what the greedy bastards like MS, Google and others of that
ilk have done with the Internet. It's even more scary what they're

Agreed. I guess it was inevitable, but indeed sad.

Post by Vic
trying to do politically to America.

And of course washing over to UK.

Post by Vic
That's about it. I get headaches and a bleeding nose when I think this
much. :o)

(-:

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Who's General Failure & why's he reading my disk? (Stolen from another .sig)

John B. Smith

2023-09-16 18:49:59 UTC

Post by Newyana2
| Thanks for answering with the link, but I'm staying with 7 until the

Win 7 is a pain in the arse. The XP menu system is so simple and
direct to use. With 7, you have to dig through layers of menus to find
what is right in front of you in XP.

But you don't understand. If it wasn't f--king you up you wouldn't
realize you had a BRAND NEW AND DIFFERENT OS! uSoft keeping you
informed.

Vic

2023-09-16 22:53:24 UTC

Post by John B. Smith

Post by Newyana2
| Thanks for answering with the link, but I'm staying with 7 until the

Win 7 is a pain in the arse. The XP menu system is so simple and
direct to use. With 7, you have to dig through layers of menus to find
what is right in front of you in XP.

But you don't understand. If it wasn't f--king you up you wouldn't
realize you had a BRAND NEW AND DIFFERENT OS! uSoft keeping you
informed.

I truly believe that Win 7 is no more than a deliberately f'kd up
version of XP made for the new billion $$$ it would bring in.

If the politicians of the past could break up AT&T, the ones around
today could certainly break up MS and make tons of other OS's
available. But they won't. MS keeps sharing those extra $$$ with the
present day politicos. America is no longer the main - or the
secondary interest of the present day corrupt, evil politicians. Self
gain is all they think about, and that is why America is on life
support. The rest of the world who thinks they can survive without a
free America are so wrong. If we go down the drain, the entire world
follows us. Only we have kept China and Russia's billion or so from
overrunning us. And there are some idiots who think the world can
exist without nuclear weapons? Ha!

VanguardLH

2023-09-16 22:59:29 UTC

Post by John B. Smith

Post by Newyana2
| Thanks for answering with the link, but I'm staying with 7 until the

Win 7 is a pain in the arse. The XP menu system is so simple and
direct to use. With 7, you have to dig through layers of menus to find
what is right in front of you in XP.

But you don't understand. If it wasn't f--king you up you wouldn't
realize you had a BRAND NEW AND DIFFERENT OS! uSoft keeping you
informed.

I truly believe that Win 7 is no more than a deliberately f'kd up
version of XP made for the new billion $$$ it would bring in.
If the politicians of the past could break up AT&T, the ones around
today could certainly break up MS and make tons of other OS's
available. But they won't. MS keeps sharing those extra $$$ with the
present day politicos. America is no longer the main - or the
secondary interest of the present day corrupt, evil politicians. Self
gain is all they think about, and that is why America is on life
support. The rest of the world who thinks they can survive without a
free America are so wrong. If we go down the drain, the entire world
follows us. Only we have kept China and Russia's billion or so from
overrunning us. And there are some idiots who think the world can
exist without nuclear weapons? Ha!

Oy vey. Vic didn't come here to get help or educated. He's here to
vent.

Paul

2023-09-15 17:06:29 UTC

Post by Newyana2
| Thanks for answering with the link, but I'm staying with 7 until the
| damn machine melts on the table. Screw Redmond and Gate's already
| overly fat wallet.
The undeclared purpose here is that PIN stands for
personal ID -- like you use at an ATM. It's all part of
MS getting you accustomed to renting your computer
functionality from them.
In the case above it was a used machine, probably
from a business. They seller neglected to remove the
restriction. I have Win10 and 11 and neither has any
password. A password has always been optional. If
you get a screen to enter one you just leave it blank.
I set up a BIOS password on some machines. The reason
for that is that I trust the woman I live with, but if
someone breaks in and steals computers then I want to
have time to go online and change passwords before
the crook finds them on the stolen hard disk.
I also heard that Win11 would require me to create a
Microsoft account. But that seems to be a lie. It's
like cellphone companies who tell you that you have to
have a gmail address for an Android phone. You only
need that if you want to buy crap apps at the "Windows
Store". When I updated 10 to 11 I unplugged the network
cable while the "offline updater" ran. Afterward it activated
with no problems and never bugged me about setting up
an account.
Which is not to say you should get 10/11. It's a broken
spyware system that requires a pile of tweaking tools and
arcane adjustments to achieve reasonable civility. Win7
is also a bit of a mess, but not as bad as 10/11. Microsoft
have very gradually been imposing restrictions and claiming
ownership. They're trying to sell Windows as a "bring-
your-own-hardware service". They now even describe
Windows as a service, justifying spying on you. At the
same time, the system has become increasingly bloated over
the years, with no housecleaning. So at this point a system
that used to require 1 GB of space is likely to require more
like 20+. My compressed disk images are about 17GB. Just
the updater from 10 to 11, with little noticeable difference
between the two, is over 5 GB compresed!
So stick with Win7 as long as you can. If you want to
have a better chance of waiting, clone and replace the
hard disk. Any original hard disk running Win7 would be
up to 13 years old now -- due for a crash.

On one occasion, I was blocked from forward progress
in an install, until entering an email address for an MSA.

A trick listed in the group a while back, was the usage of

a @ a.a # remove the space characters to use this...
# This is a "well-worn, fake" email address.

as that email ID has been presented to Microsoft thousands
of times, and the logic on the server rejects such an email
address and you are allowed to define a local one in its place.

There are other, more complicated schemes, for dropping to
a shell and using auxiliary control to defeat the feature.

My point in mentioning this, is the "pull the cable out" used
to work, but really, if they want an email address, they can
"just sit there and give you the finger". I've only seen that
the one time.

Paul

Newyana2

2023-09-15 17:14:17 UTC

"Paul" <***@needed.invalid> wrote

| On one occasion, I was blocked from forward progress
| in an install, until entering an email address for an MSA.
|
| A trick listed in the group a while back, was the usage of
|
| a @ a.a # remove the space characters to use this...
| # This is a "well-worn, fake" email address.
|
| as that email ID has been presented to Microsoft thousands
| of times, and the logic on the server rejects such an email
| address and you are allowed to define a local one in its place.
|

I wonder what makes the difference. I would have expected
it to be standardized. The Win11 was updating a Win10
pre-installed on an Asus laptop. I haven't had to deal with MS
at all, except a very quick activation for 11.

I also have a favorite email address, which doesn't require
me to lie: ***@rovided.com :)

Frank Slootweg

2023-09-15 18:19:13 UTC

Vic <***@smurfing.com> wrote:

[About logging in with a PIN in Windows 10 and 11:]

Post by Vic
It ain't a cure for anything. It's a cause for more aggravation. A
Redmond speciality.
Absolutely flipp'ng ridiculous.
Thanks for answering with the link, but I'm staying with 7 until the
damn machine melts on the table. Screw Redmond and Gate's already
overly fat wallet.

Relax! As Newyana2 and others mentioned, it's just *a* way to login
and it's optional.

As Newyana2 mentioned, you don't have to set *any* login security if
you don't want to. An 'empty'/null password is perfectly fine.

And that other knickers-in-a-twist issue: No, you don't need a
Microsoft Account either. A local account still works perfectly fine.

Vic

2023-09-15 20:05:39 UTC

Post by Frank Slootweg
[About logging in with a PIN in Windows 10 and 11:]

Relax! As Newyana2 and others mentioned, it's just *a* way to login
and it's optional.
As Newyana2 mentioned, you don't have to set *any* login security if
you don't want to. An 'empty'/null password is perfectly fine.
And that other knickers-in-a-twist issue: No, you don't need a
Microsoft Account either. A local account still works perfectly fine.

I guess I'm dumb, but what the bleep is this"local account" I need and
why do I need any account to sign into Windows? In XP and Win 7 I
just turn on the machine and everything loads up without having this
"account" nonsense.

J. P. Gilliver

2023-09-15 23:10:48 UTC

In message <hayw9p1jc5gj$***@40tude.net> at Fri, 15 Sep
2023 15:05:39, Vic <***@smurfing.com> writes
[]

Post by Vic
why do I need any account to sign into Windows? In XP and Win 7 I
just turn on the machine and everything loads up without having this
"account" nonsense.

At some point, you've set them not to prompt - that may even be the
default, I can't remember.

If you Start | Shutdown | Sleep or Hibernate, you may get to see what
your account is (though you can click on it when you come back without
needing a password): that's the only time I (on W7-32) see my account
name.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

a joke doesn't become a dad joke until it's full groan

Vic

2023-09-16 01:02:22 UTC

Post by Vic
why do I need any account to sign into Windows? In XP and Win 7 I
just turn on the machine and everything loads up without having this
"account" nonsense.

At some point, you've set them not to prompt - that may even be the
default, I can't remember.
If you Start | Shutdown | Sleep or Hibernate, you may get to see what
your account is (though you can click on it when you come back without
needing a password): that's the only time I (on W7-32) see my account
name.

I still have no flipp'ng idea what you people are talking about with
this account stuff. I had both my XP and 7 machine built at a a local
shop. There is no password or "pin" I need to get into 7. Although I
do know I have a choice with 7 of having the thing locked with a
password, which I choose not to do.

I do know about Admin accounts - which are a frek'ng pain in the arse
with 7, but somehow my 7 box is set up so even though I sometimes get
the message it cannot do something because it needs admin rights, if I
click OK, it still does it without me going into the Admin setup. I
guess the store who set it up eliminated a bunch of Admin problems for
me.

This Admin crap may be a helpful and protective thingy for techs and
wannabe tekkies, but for the average dummy who only wants to turn
things on and click on the mouse to make things work, all this
"security" crap is a p.i.a. Let us lusers pick our own security
measures that we can understand and easily use.

Does anyone know what the hull I'm talking about, because I certainly
don't know what the hull all of you are talking about.

And on top of that, I got the gdmn headache back again because of this
"account" stuff - and I don't wanna heear anymore about PINS, dammitt!

Newyana2

2023-09-16 12:56:23 UTC

"Vic" <***@smurfing.com> wrote

| I still have no flipp'ng idea what you people are talking about with
| this account stuff. I had both my XP and 7 machine built at a a local
| shop. There is no password or "pin" I need to get into 7. Although I
| do know I have a choice with 7 of having the thing locked with a
| password, which I choose not to do.
|

This is actually a very insidious strategy on the part
of MS. By locking down the system and calling you a "user",
MS are further preparing the ground to force Windows
customers into being service users. They're stealing your
car and putting a taxi in the driveway.

For corporate employees it's always been this way. They
don't have a right -- or ability -- to access anything on their
computer beyond writing MSWord DOCs and such. Over the
years, MS have been spreading that to non-corporate
systems. Home and Pro are now zombie beta test machines
for Microsoft.

The logic makes some sense. They're locking down for
better security and providing user options for families where
Dad might not want Disney Frozen characters on his Desktop.
But the real scheme is that MS essentially becomes your
corporate boss.

In Win9x there was no security, and none possible. On
XP there's some control, such as files you can't delete without
special incantations. But mostly XP was just like the old days:
You install software into Program Files. The settings are in
Program Files. No one knows what My Documents is. No one's
ever seen Application Data folders. It's your car and there's no
acceleration limiter. Everyone was an Administrator and an
Admin really was an Admin.

That changed with Vista/7. Notably, it had to be on an NTFS
file system, allowing for the whole permissions thing that's really
designed for corporate lackey computers. Program Files became
restricted, so software had to be installed as for corporate
"seats" rather than SOHo PCs. The only way to be an admin now
is to activate the account named "Administrator". Along with that
have come various basic changes, such as the almost complete
inability to stop Windows from updating willy nilly. Gradually MS
plan to show ads, and already have to some extent. But they seem
to be waiting until the majority of people who expect to own what
they buy have died off.

Vic

2023-09-16 14:20:06 UTC

Post by Newyana2
| I still have no flipp'ng idea what you people are talking about with
| this account stuff. I had both my XP and 7 machine built at a a local
| shop. There is no password or "pin" I need to get into 7. Although I
| do know I have a choice with 7 of having the thing locked with a
| password, which I choose not to do.
|
This is actually a very insidious strategy on the part
of MS. By locking down the system and calling you a "user",
MS are further preparing the ground to force Windows
customers into being service users. They're stealing your
car and putting a taxi in the driveway.

From what I've read on the Web, the car manufacturers have already
turned new cars into spyware. And some features are by subscription
only.

Post by Newyana2
For corporate employees it's always been this way. They
don't have a right -- or ability -- to access anything on their
computer beyond writing MSWord DOCs and such. Over the
years, MS have been spreading that to non-corporate
systems. Home and Pro are now zombie beta test machines
for Microsoft.

I'd go back to Command Line DOS and Gopher before I let that happen to
me. I'm just a Home user. Screw them with their "corporate" takeover
stunt.

Post by Newyana2
The logic makes some sense. They're locking down for
better security and providing user options for families where
Dad might not want Disney Frozen characters on his Desktop.
But the real scheme is that MS essentially becomes your
corporate boss.

See my line above about DOS and Gopher.

Post by Newyana2
In Win9x there was no security, and none possible. On
XP there's some control, such as files you can't delete without
You install software into Program Files. The settings are in
Program Files. No one knows what My Documents is. No one's
ever seen Application Data folders. It's your car and there's no
acceleration limiter. Everyone was an Administrator and an
Admin really was an Admin.

Well, it seems as ignorant as I am on the subject, I was right about
XP. It was the last attempt by Redmond at commonsense and priority of
ownership regarding the user/buyer.

Post by Newyana2
That changed with Vista/7. Notably, it had to be on an NTFS
file system, allowing for the whole permissions thing that's really
designed for corporate lackey computers. Program Files became
restricted, so software had to be installed as for corporate
"seats" rather than SOHo PCs. The only way to be an admin now
is to activate the account named "Administrator". Along with that
have come various basic changes, such as the almost complete
inability to stop Windows from updating willy nilly. Gradually MS
plan to show ads, and already have to some extent. But they seem
to be waiting until the majority of people who expect to own what
they buy have died off.

I used Gibson's No Update proggie from his GRC site to stop any Win 10
updating nonsense. Matter of fact, I have updates turned off on about
all programs. FFX is an example of what a horrific mess an update can
turn into. (I still long for the never-to-be return of simple
Netscape. Ahh, there was simplicity.)

Newyana2

2023-09-16 14:51:36 UTC

"Vic" <***@smurfing.com> wrote

| From what I've read on the Web, the car manufacturers have already
| turned new cars into spyware. And some features are by subscription
| only.
|

Yes. Mozilla recently came out with a report:

https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/categories/cars/

The woman I live with has a new VW. I'm thinking
of looking into how to clean it, but it'ds hard to find
specific repair-type info. According to Mozilla they
even claim the right to film and record voice in the
car. What is a camera doing in the car? I don't know.
I've only begun to look into all this.

| I used Gibson's No Update proggie from his GRC site to stop any Win 10
| updating nonsense.

This seems to work (in addition to disabling services):
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate]
"ProductVersion"="Windows 10"
"TargetReleaseVersion"=dword:00000001
"TargetReleaseVersionInfo"="20H2"

That entry has prevented my 20H2 from being updated
beyond that version.

Vic

2023-09-16 15:40:29 UTC

Post by Newyana2
| From what I've read on the Web, the car manufacturers have already
| turned new cars into spyware. And some features are by subscription
| only.
|
https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/categories/cars/
The woman I live with has a new VW. I'm thinking
of looking into how to clean it, but it'ds hard to find
specific repair-type info. According to Mozilla they
even claim the right to film and record voice in the
car. What is a camera doing in the car? I don't know.
I've only begun to look into all this.

I'd find some way or some mechanic to turn that crap off.

This privacy intrusion now has gone over the line and has become the
ability for all companies to threaten our very right of free choice.
They can/will know where you go, what you say ,and any accidental
breach of some law or other by you which could lead to your arrest or
blackmail by the company. Even Orwell's 1984 didn't have a clue as to
the full scope of the possible tyranny we face from all directions,
corporations, government and gawd knows what other sources.

Post by Newyana2
| I used Gibson's No Update proggie from his GRC site to stop any Win 10
| updating nonsense.
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate]
"ProductVersion"="Windows 10"
"TargetReleaseVersion"=dword:00000001
"TargetReleaseVersionInfo"="20H2"
That entry has prevented my 20H2 from being updated
beyond that version.

All those tiny and useful utility proggies are meant to keep dummies
like myself from committing OS suicide by screwing with the registry.

Newyana2

2023-09-16 21:38:23 UTC

"Vic" <***@smurfing.com> wrote

| Even Orwell's 1984 didn't have a clue as to
| the full scope of the possible tyranny we face from all directions,
| corporations, government and gawd knows what other sources.

It's interesting. Orwell foreaws excessive gov't surveillance.
Fanatical Christian extremits saw the government imposing
the mark of the beast. But no one foresaw commercial control.
The other day I was reading that AirBnB approves of a
device for landlords to measure the number of cellphone
signal coming from a property, so they can monitor the
number of people using a rental. If that's not mark of the
beast, what is? It's now assumed that all citizens are
broadcasting their ID and location, as well as keeping personal
data for police to search. People could spoof AirBnB by turning
off their cellphones, but what cellphone addict would even imagine
that possibility? :)

😉 Good Guy 😉

2023-09-16 23:01:00 UTC

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https://www.temu.com/us
https://www.rshtech.com/
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https://odysee.com/
https://b4ukraine.org/
https://www.eff.org/

J. P. Gilliver

2023-09-16 14:38:58 UTC

[]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
If you Start | Shutdown | Sleep or Hibernate, you may get to see what
your account is (though you can click on it when you come back without
needing a password): that's the only time I (on W7-32) see my account
name.

I still have no flipp'ng idea what you people are talking about with
this account stuff. I had both my XP and 7 machine built at a a local

[]
(As someone else pointed out, whoami will also tell you.) You have - and
are using - an account, you have just chosen to never see its name. (On
recovering from sleep/hibernate you may have to click on it - it'll be
the only one there.) from what you say, it's your machine/user name. (On
here - I'm the same as you, I never see it - whois tells me it's
stone-pc\stone.)

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"I'm a paranoid agnostic. I doubt the existence of God, but I'm sure there is
some force, somewhere, working against me." - Marc Maron

Char Jackson

2023-09-16 02:46:45 UTC

Post by Vic
why do I need any account to sign into Windows? In XP and Win 7 I
just turn on the machine and everything loads up without having this
"account" nonsense.

At some point, you've set them not to prompt - that may even be the
default, I can't remember.
If you Start | Shutdown | Sleep or Hibernate, you may get to see what
your account is (though you can click on it when you come back without
needing a password): that's the only time I (on W7-32) see my account
name.

You can also see your account name at any time by running "whoami" in a Command
Prompt. (no quotes)

Paul

2023-09-16 03:27:32 UTC

Post by Char Jackson

Post by Vic
why do I need any account to sign into Windows? In XP and Win 7 I
just turn on the machine and everything loads up without having this
"account" nonsense.

At some point, you've set them not to prompt - that may even be the
default, I can't remember.
If you Start | Shutdown | Sleep or Hibernate, you may get to see what
your account is (though you can click on it when you come back without
needing a password): that's the only time I (on W7-32) see my account
name.

You can also see your account name at any time by running "whoami" in a Command
Prompt. (no quotes)

You can also use the command, to tell if you're elevated.

whoami /user /priv

If the privilege section contains around 24 items, you're elevated.
If the privilege section contains around 5 items, you're not elevated.

It may not be intended for that purpose, but that's what
I notice is different.

If you enable the administrator account, and log in as "real administrator",
it should be similar to the elevated version of a user (a user
belonging to the administrator group).

Paul

g***@aol.com

2023-09-16 04:10:05 UTC

Post by Char Jackson

Post by Vic
why do I need any account to sign into Windows? In XP and Win 7 I
just turn on the machine and everything loads up without having this
"account" nonsense.

At some point, you've set them not to prompt - that may even be the
default, I can't remember.
If you Start | Shutdown | Sleep or Hibernate, you may get to see what
your account is (though you can click on it when you come back without
needing a password): that's the only time I (on W7-32) see my account
name.

You can also see your account name at any time by running "whoami" in a Command
Prompt. (no quotes)

That just seems to pop up the name of the computer and the user name I
set up. My dog is on the MSA account. Back when I was buying AOL you
could set up Email IDs with no real verification (phone number etc)
and I set one up for my dog when he got his facebook page. I just used
that. Once you are a "person" Facebook, you can log onto all sorts of
stuff tho. (hop over pay walls etc) My dog's mailbox is always packed
tho.

Frank Slootweg

2023-09-16 17:37:55 UTC

Post by Frank Slootweg
[About logging in with a PIN in Windows 10 and 11:]

Relax! As Newyana2 and others mentioned, it's just *a* way to login
and it's optional.
As Newyana2 mentioned, you don't have to set *any* login security if
you don't want to. An 'empty'/null password is perfectly fine.
And that other knickers-in-a-twist issue: No, you don't need a
Microsoft Account either. A local account still works perfectly fine.

Again: Relax! You do have a local account, whether you realize it or
not. You may know it as your username and perhaps even not that. But
it's there. See the explanations by others and Paul's explanation for
the full story of the different account types. A local account is the
simplest form and every Windows version from NT on has had them.

Paul

2023-09-16 20:00:42 UTC

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Frank Slootweg
[About logging in with a PIN in Windows 10 and 11:]

Relax! As Newyana2 and others mentioned, it's just *a* way to login
and it's optional.
As Newyana2 mentioned, you don't have to set *any* login security if
you don't want to. An 'empty'/null password is perfectly fine.
And that other knickers-in-a-twist issue: No, you don't need a
Microsoft Account either. A local account still works perfectly fine.

Here, you can see some Windows passwords in a standard format.

Loading Image...

You can't really tell what's in those, but determining a password
is empty, should not take the cracker program long. One try maybe.

https://www.techtarget.com/searchsecurity/tutorial/How-to-use-the-John-the-Ripper-password-cracker

You can see the effort has kinda gone underground, and perhaps that
is fear of DMCA charges and legal advice. Rather than a mean spirited attempt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pwdump

SAM isn't in Regedit

C:\Windows\System32\config\SAM 128KB

You would shut down the OS (so SAM is at rest and ready to copy),
and then a copy of SAM, fed to pwdump8, would be the start of your adventure.

It's because the entries are protected by crypto, that you cannot tell
from the outside, whether they are empty or not.

Paul

Newyana2

2023-09-15 22:37:09 UTC

"Frank Slootweg" <***@ddress.is.invalid> wrote

| And that other knickers-in-a-twist issue: No, you don't need a
| Microsoft Account either. A local account still works perfectly fine.

Yes, what the bleep is a local account. I'm officially
a user, if that's what you mean. It means nothing.

Paul

2023-09-16 01:18:09 UTC

Post by Newyana2
| And that other knickers-in-a-twist issue: No, you don't need a
| Microsoft Account either. A local account still works perfectly fine.
Yes, what the bleep is a local account. I'm officially
a user, if that's what you mean. It means nothing.

A local account is not a domain account.

If you were at work, you could sit at any PC, log in as
Maya and the same password would work everywhere. The
"Roaming" section of your profile, would be staged on a
departmental server. This provides a uniform environment,
and might even make file sharing work better.

when you're at home, without a server, without a defined
Domain to log into (server-verified password), then
each PC keeps the local password.

Machine1 Maya 12345678
Machine2 Maya 87654321

The SID (Security ID) on each Maya account is different.
They aren't really the same account after all. That's
why you may notice some peculiar things happen, when
dealing with an NTFS drive from a second PC, on your
primary machine. The File Explorer may do an Implicit TakeOwn
(File Explorer shows an advancing green bar while it runs),
and add a SID to each file in your home directory, allowing
two machine OSes to have authority to view the profile folder
of your account.

So yes, there are local accounts. They're local accounts,
because you don't have a Domain.

Microsoft tried to shoehorn "fake Domain" behavior into
your home computer room. But there are some rough edges,
and it may take a user a while to figure out exactly
what those rough edges are.

An MSA account, is similar to a Domain account, in the
sense that the password is the same everywhere, and it's
a "long and strong" password, to prevent Internet hijinks.
You definitely do not use a "12345" password on an MSA.
Because you may be logging into the Microsoft server, and
getting your Bitlocker recovery key from it.

Paul

Newyana2

2023-09-16 12:35:26 UTC

"Paul" <***@needed.invalid> wrote

|
| So yes, there are local accounts. They're local accounts,
| because you don't have a Domain.
|
| Microsoft tried to shoehorn "fake Domain" behavior into
| your home computer room. But there are some rough edges,
| and it may take a user a while to figure out exactly
| what those rough edges are.
|
| An MSA account, is similar to a Domain account, in the
| sense that the password is the same everywhere, and it's
| a "long and strong" password, to prevent Internet hijinks.
| You definitely do not use a "12345" password on an MSA.
| Because you may be logging into the Microsoft server, and
| getting your Bitlocker recovery key from it.
|

I see. Thanks. I'd never heard that jargon before, I guess
because I've never paid much attention to the requirement
that I choose a "user name" on a standalone computer. So
I've thought in terms of "users" rather than "accounts".

I did know about the Roaming folder, though again, it's
never been anything more than a nuisance for me because
I've never worked at a corporate job and the Roaming design
is post-XP. Even when designing software installers I don't
need to know the details because I just ask the system for
the paths to the personal app data folder and the all users
app data folder.

Interesting about MSA. I'd assumed it was only a shopping
account for apps. But I suppose the Microsoft Club must have
a wider definition, including OneDrive and "conveniences", like
getting activation help easier. In the computer age, impersonal
IDs have become the way to feel personally known, as computer
voices enthusiastically tell us, "Welcome back" when we try to
reach human tech support.

Poor Microsoft never seems to get the hang of these things.
I don't know how many people use OneDrive vs GoogleDrive,
or MSAs vs gmail accounts, but I do know that people expecting
me to access their files on GD are common and I don't remember
more than once or twice seeing a link to OneDrive.

I decided to check out their presentation out of curiosity,
but MS websites are so broken these days without javascript
that the only information available was the blurbs on DuckDuckGo.
It looks like I could have a TB of storage free, just for joining
the Microsoft Family (R). That's very nice of them. Though the
info that I found only says "sign up for free". That sounds like
the software sites that say "download free" but the product
is actually crippleware.

MS never seem to quite get the idea with these things. Google
have been very cleverly evil in getting 90% of the population
to be completely hooked on gmail, Google search, Google maps,
and so on. If Google refused to handle non-gmail tomorrow,
people would call me without a second thought to tell me I'll
need a gmail account so that they can reach me. No one even
knows what a Microsoft account is. ***@Microsoft.com?
***@outlook.com? ***@live.com? ***@passport.com?
***@hailstorm.com? ***@kin.com?
***@surface.com? ***@onedrive.com? Can I still
get an address at ActiveDesktop.com to add to my antique
collection of Mindspring and AOL addresses?

J. P. Gilliver

2023-09-16 14:41:41 UTC

In message <ue47g1$3qp32$***@dont-email.me> at Sat, 16 Sep 2023 08:35:26,
Newyana2 <***@invalid.nospam> writes
[]

Post by Newyana2
a wider definition, including OneDrive and "conveniences", like

[]
In UK, public conveniences are what in US would be called public
bathrooms. (You know, those places with no bath in them.)

Frank Slootweg

2023-09-16 17:55:32 UTC

Newyana2 <***@invalid.nospam> wrote:

[Restoring part of the context:]

Post by Newyana2

Post by Newyana2
Yes, what the bleep is a local account. I'm officially
a user, if that's what you mean. It means nothing.

|
| So yes, there are local accounts. They're local accounts,
| because you don't have a Domain.
|
| Microsoft tried to shoehorn "fake Domain" behavior into
| your home computer room. But there are some rough edges,
| and it may take a user a while to figure out exactly
| what those rough edges are.
|
| An MSA account, is similar to a Domain account, in the
| sense that the password is the same everywhere, and it's
| a "long and strong" password, to prevent Internet hijinks.
| You definitely do not use a "12345" password on an MSA.
| Because you may be logging into the Microsoft server, and
| getting your Bitlocker recovery key from it.
|
I see. Thanks. I'd never heard that jargon before, I guess
because I've never paid much attention to the requirement
that I choose a "user name" on a standalone computer. So
I've thought in terms of "users" rather than "accounts".

Strange! The term has come up umpteen times in the context of a local
account versus a Microsoft Account (MSA), especially when installing
Windows.

Anyway: Control Panel -> User Accounts -> User Accounts will list your
account as a "Local Account" (and probably with Account Type
Administrator). At least that's what it is on your Windows 10 system,
but probably also on your XP system.

As I said elsewhere, Windows has always had accounts and local ones at
that, from NT till now, so high time to get with the program! :-)

[...]

VanguardLH

2023-09-15 15:56:39 UTC