Discussion:
So now that Windows 7 is no longer supported?
(too old to reply)
Yousuf Khan
2020-05-03 16:16:36 UTC
Permalink
What are all of you guys doing to keep the system secure? I'm just
keeping the AV uptodate, leaving the Windows Firewall up.

Yousuf Khan
pjp
2020-05-03 16:36:50 UTC
Permalink
In article <uLWdndJcnaP-czPDnZ2dnUU7-***@giganews.com>, bbbl67
@spammenot.yahoo.com says...
Post by Yousuf Khan
What are all of you guys doing to keep the system secure? I'm just
keeping the AV uptodate, leaving the Windows Firewall up.
Yousuf Khan
And I have an image to restore from if things really go belly up. Mind
you I keep nothing on my Win7 pcs that's of any personal value and can't
be replaced from backups going back over decades now. Also there's no
sites require a password etc. e.g banks and the like I do not do online.
JJ
2020-05-03 19:06:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yousuf Khan
What are all of you guys doing to keep the system secure? I'm just
keeping the AV uptodate, leaving the Windows Firewall up.
Always think twice before I click.
Doesn't matter whether Windows is no longer supported or still is;
or whether Windows has updates or not.
If you blindly relies on AVs, you'll get malware eventually.
MARKFUKERBERG_THIEFFATCHARGE
2020-05-06 22:53:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yousuf Khan
What are all of you guys doing to keep the system secure? I'm just
keeping the AV uptodate, leaving the Windows Firewall up.
Yousuf Khan
You keep it secure by not using microshit software thats how
T
2020-05-13 23:22:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yousuf Khan
What are all of you guys doing to keep the system secure? I'm just
keeping the AV uptodate, leaving the Windows Firewall up.
    Yousuf Khan
Hi Yousuf,

I do the same thing.

I also use Brave and Firefox and not M$ browsers or
Googlized Blink (chromium) browsers.

I also only do private stuff through Fedora.

And I might add that W-Nein (W10) being supported
and W7 not, is a false sense of security. M$'s
security is abysmal and you are still under threat
with W-Nein, EVEN with it being supported.

Plus, no updates to W7 mean IT WILL WORK WHEN YOU
TURN IT ON! A lot of folks are not so lucky after
a W-Nein build update.

I do have several customers that have had such
problems with W-Nein updates that they have requested
that I disable W-Nein updates. And, yes, I do give
them the standard warnings to keep their AV and
firewall updated. They can not see how a virus would
do any more damage that what they have experienced
with a W-Nein update.

Me personally, on my W-Nein virtual machine, it is
completely frozen. I only do build updates when
they come out and only from ISO.

-T
Lucifer
2020-05-23 04:47:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by T
Post by Yousuf Khan
What are all of you guys doing to keep the system secure? I'm just
keeping the AV uptodate, leaving the Windows Firewall up.
    Yousuf Khan
Hi Yousuf,
I do the same thing.
I also use Brave and Firefox and not M$ browsers or
Googlized Blink (chromium) browsers.
I also only do private stuff through Fedora.
And I might add that W-Nein (W10) being supported
and W7 not, is a false sense of security. M$'s
security is abysmal and you are still under threat
with W-Nein, EVEN with it being supported.
Plus, no updates to W7 mean IT WILL WORK WHEN YOU
TURN IT ON! A lot of folks are not so lucky after
a W-Nein build update.
I do have several customers that have had such
problems with W-Nein updates that they have requested
that I disable W-Nein updates. And, yes, I do give
them the standard warnings to keep their AV and
firewall updated. They can not see how a virus would
do any more damage that what they have experienced
with a W-Nein update.
Me personally, on my W-Nein virtual machine, it is
completely frozen. I only do build updates when
they come out and only from ISO.
What is W-Nein? I've never heard of that.
You should use Windows 10.
Post by T
-T
T
2020-05-23 20:06:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lucifer
Post by T
Post by Yousuf Khan
What are all of you guys doing to keep the system secure? I'm just
keeping the AV uptodate, leaving the Windows Firewall up.
    Yousuf Khan
Hi Yousuf,
I do the same thing.
I also use Brave and Firefox and not M$ browsers or
Googlized Blink (chromium) browsers.
I also only do private stuff through Fedora.
And I might add that W-Nein (W10) being supported
and W7 not, is a false sense of security. M$'s
security is abysmal and you are still under threat
with W-Nein, EVEN with it being supported.
Plus, no updates to W7 mean IT WILL WORK WHEN YOU
TURN IT ON! A lot of folks are not so lucky after
a W-Nein build update.
I do have several customers that have had such
problems with W-Nein updates that they have requested
that I disable W-Nein updates. And, yes, I do give
them the standard warnings to keep their AV and
firewall updated. They can not see how a virus would
do any more damage that what they have experienced
with a W-Nein update.
Me personally, on my W-Nein virtual machine, it is
completely frozen. I only do build updates when
they come out and only from ISO.
What is W-Nein? I've never heard of that.
You should use Windows 10.
Read up four paragraphs. I define W-Nein:
"W-Nein (W10)"
Rene Lamontagne
2020-05-23 20:44:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by T
Post by Lucifer
Post by T
Post by Yousuf Khan
What are all of you guys doing to keep the system secure? I'm just
keeping the AV uptodate, leaving the Windows Firewall up.
      Yousuf Khan
Hi Yousuf,
I do the same thing.
I also use Brave and Firefox and not M$ browsers or
Googlized Blink (chromium) browsers.
I also only do private stuff through Fedora.
And I might add that W-Nein (W10) being supported
and W7 not, is a false sense of security.  M$'s
security is abysmal and you are still under threat
with W-Nein, EVEN with it being supported.
Plus, no updates to W7 mean IT WILL WORK WHEN YOU
TURN IT ON!   A lot of folks are not so lucky after
a W-Nein build update.
I do have several customers that have had such
problems with W-Nein updates that they have requested
that I disable W-Nein updates.  And, yes, I do give
them the standard warnings to keep their AV and
firewall updated.  They can not see how a virus would
do any more damage that what they have experienced
with a W-Nein update.
Me personally, on my W-Nein virtual machine, it is
completely frozen.  I only do build updates when
they come out and only from ISO.
What is W-Nein? I've never heard of that.
You should use Windows 10.
"W-Nein (W10)"
Your take on Windows 10 which you call W-Nein,which translates to' W-No'
which doesn't make very much sense.

Rene
T
2020-05-23 23:24:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rene Lamontagne
Post by T
Post by Lucifer
Post by T
Post by Yousuf Khan
What are all of you guys doing to keep the system secure? I'm just
keeping the AV uptodate, leaving the Windows Firewall up.
      Yousuf Khan
Hi Yousuf,
I do the same thing.
I also use Brave and Firefox and not M$ browsers or
Googlized Blink (chromium) browsers.
I also only do private stuff through Fedora.
And I might add that W-Nein (W10) being supported
and W7 not, is a false sense of security.  M$'s
security is abysmal and you are still under threat
with W-Nein, EVEN with it being supported.
Plus, no updates to W7 mean IT WILL WORK WHEN YOU
TURN IT ON!   A lot of folks are not so lucky after
a W-Nein build update.
I do have several customers that have had such
problems with W-Nein updates that they have requested
that I disable W-Nein updates.  And, yes, I do give
them the standard warnings to keep their AV and
firewall updated.  They can not see how a virus would
do any more damage that what they have experienced
with a W-Nein update.
Me personally, on my W-Nein virtual machine, it is
completely frozen.  I only do build updates when
they come out and only from ISO.
What is W-Nein? I've never heard of that.
You should use Windows 10.
"W-Nein (W10)"
Your take on Windows 10 which you call W-Nein,which translates to' W-No'
 which doesn't make very much sense.
Rene
Hi Rene,

Learn to count in Germany. Then it will make sense.

M$ deliberately skipped Windows Nine as "nine"
in English sound identical to "Nein" (no) in Germany.
Then they lied and lied and lied their asses off
about it. Not a single programmer had any trouble
telling Windows Nein apart from Windows 98.

Had M$ just been honest, I would have had to just stick
with calling Windows Nein "Son of Frankenstein".

Frankenstein the Elder => Windows Eight
Frankenstein the Younger => Windows Nein

But where would be the fun in that?

Are you following?

-T


I personally would like to see a true Windows Nein:

Windows NO:
no spying
no junkware preloaded
no bloat ware preloaded
no idiot tiles
no web account
no extraneous services
no forced updates
Just a simple, straight forward working version of Windows!

The MOST most sensible version of Windows YET! Just say NO!


Think I will get my wish? Don't hold my breath?
Rene Lamontagne
2020-05-24 01:45:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by T
Post by Rene Lamontagne
Post by T
Post by Lucifer
Post by T
Post by Yousuf Khan
What are all of you guys doing to keep the system secure? I'm just
keeping the AV uptodate, leaving the Windows Firewall up.
      Yousuf Khan
Hi Yousuf,
I do the same thing.
I also use Brave and Firefox and not M$ browsers or
Googlized Blink (chromium) browsers.
I also only do private stuff through Fedora.
And I might add that W-Nein (W10) being supported
and W7 not, is a false sense of security.  M$'s
security is abysmal and you are still under threat
with W-Nein, EVEN with it being supported.
Plus, no updates to W7 mean IT WILL WORK WHEN YOU
TURN IT ON!   A lot of folks are not so lucky after
a W-Nein build update.
I do have several customers that have had such
problems with W-Nein updates that they have requested
that I disable W-Nein updates.  And, yes, I do give
them the standard warnings to keep their AV and
firewall updated.  They can not see how a virus would
do any more damage that what they have experienced
with a W-Nein update.
Me personally, on my W-Nein virtual machine, it is
completely frozen.  I only do build updates when
they come out and only from ISO.
What is W-Nein? I've never heard of that.
You should use Windows 10.
"W-Nein (W10)"
Your take on Windows 10 which you call W-Nein,which translates to'
W-No'   which doesn't make very much sense.
Rene
Hi Rene,
Learn to count in Germany.  Then it will make sense.
M$ deliberately skipped Windows Nine as "nine"
in English sound identical to "Nein" (no) in Germany.
Then they lied and lied and lied their asses off
about it.  Not a single programmer had any trouble
telling Windows Nein apart from Windows 98.
Had M$ just been honest, I would have had to just stick
with calling Windows Nein "Son of Frankenstein".
   Frankenstein the Elder   => Windows Eight
   Frankenstein the Younger => Windows Nein
But where would be the fun in that?
Are you following?
-T
     no spying
     no junkware preloaded
     no bloat ware preloaded
     no idiot tiles
     no web account
     no extraneous services
     no forced updates
     Just a simple, straight forward working version of Windows!
   The MOST most sensible version of Windows YET!  Just say NO!
Think I will get my wish?  Don't hold my breath?
Better *you* learn to count and spell in German!!

check this site and many others, the tell me if there is an i in Neun

https://blogs.transparent.com/german/german-numbers-1-20/

Rene
T
2020-05-24 02:40:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by T
Post by Rene Lamontagne
Post by T
Post by Lucifer
Post by T
Post by Yousuf Khan
What are all of you guys doing to keep the system secure? I'm just
keeping the AV uptodate, leaving the Windows Firewall up.
      Yousuf Khan
Hi Yousuf,
I do the same thing.
I also use Brave and Firefox and not M$ browsers or
Googlized Blink (chromium) browsers.
I also only do private stuff through Fedora.
And I might add that W-Nein (W10) being supported
and W7 not, is a false sense of security.  M$'s
security is abysmal and you are still under threat
with W-Nein, EVEN with it being supported.
Plus, no updates to W7 mean IT WILL WORK WHEN YOU
TURN IT ON!   A lot of folks are not so lucky after
a W-Nein build update.
I do have several customers that have had such
problems with W-Nein updates that they have requested
that I disable W-Nein updates.  And, yes, I do give
them the standard warnings to keep their AV and
firewall updated.  They can not see how a virus would
do any more damage that what they have experienced
with a W-Nein update.
Me personally, on my W-Nein virtual machine, it is
completely frozen.  I only do build updates when
they come out and only from ISO.
What is W-Nein? I've never heard of that.
You should use Windows 10.
"W-Nein (W10)"
Your take on Windows 10 which you call W-Nein,which translates to'
W-No'   which doesn't make very much sense.
Rene
Hi Rene,
Learn to count in Germany.  Then it will make sense.
M$ deliberately skipped Windows Nine as "nine"
in English sound identical to "Nein" (no) in Germany.
Then they lied and lied and lied their asses off
about it.  Not a single programmer had any trouble
telling Windows Nein apart from Windows 98.
Had M$ just been honest, I would have had to just stick
with calling Windows Nein "Son of Frankenstein".
    Frankenstein the Elder   => Windows Eight
    Frankenstein the Younger => Windows Nein
But where would be the fun in that?
Are you following?
-T
      no spying
      no junkware preloaded
      no bloat ware preloaded
      no idiot tiles
      no web account
      no extraneous services
      no forced updates
      Just a simple, straight forward working version of Windows!
    The MOST most sensible version of Windows YET!  Just say NO!
Think I will get my wish?  Don't hold my breath?
Better *you*  learn to count and spell in German!!
check this site and many others, the tell me if there is an i in Neun
https://blogs.transparent.com/german/german-numbers-1-20/
Rene
Hi Rene,

"No" in German is spelled "Nein"

You get a C-

:-)

-T
Rene Lamontagne
2020-05-24 02:59:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by T
Post by T
Post by Rene Lamontagne
Post by T
Post by Lucifer
Post by T
Post by Yousuf Khan
What are all of you guys doing to keep the system secure? I'm just
keeping the AV uptodate, leaving the Windows Firewall up.
      Yousuf Khan
Hi Yousuf,
I do the same thing.
I also use Brave and Firefox and not M$ browsers or
Googlized Blink (chromium) browsers.
I also only do private stuff through Fedora.
And I might add that W-Nein (W10) being supported
and W7 not, is a false sense of security.  M$'s
security is abysmal and you are still under threat
with W-Nein, EVEN with it being supported.
Plus, no updates to W7 mean IT WILL WORK WHEN YOU
TURN IT ON!   A lot of folks are not so lucky after
a W-Nein build update.
I do have several customers that have had such
problems with W-Nein updates that they have requested
that I disable W-Nein updates.  And, yes, I do give
them the standard warnings to keep their AV and
firewall updated.  They can not see how a virus would
do any more damage that what they have experienced
with a W-Nein update.
Me personally, on my W-Nein virtual machine, it is
completely frozen.  I only do build updates when
they come out and only from ISO.
What is W-Nein? I've never heard of that.
You should use Windows 10.
"W-Nein (W10)"
Your take on Windows 10 which you call W-Nein,which translates to'
W-No'   which doesn't make very much sense.
Rene
Hi Rene,
Learn to count in Germany.  Then it will make sense.
M$ deliberately skipped Windows Nine as "nine"
in English sound identical to "Nein" (no) in Germany.
Then they lied and lied and lied their asses off
about it.  Not a single programmer had any trouble
telling Windows Nein apart from Windows 98.
Had M$ just been honest, I would have had to just stick
with calling Windows Nein "Son of Frankenstein".
    Frankenstein the Elder   => Windows Eight
    Frankenstein the Younger => Windows Nein
But where would be the fun in that?
Are you following?
-T
      no spying
      no junkware preloaded
      no bloat ware preloaded
      no idiot tiles
      no web account
      no extraneous services
      no forced updates
      Just a simple, straight forward working version of Windows!
    The MOST most sensible version of Windows YET!  Just say NO!
Think I will get my wish?  Don't hold my breath?
Better *you*  learn to count and spell in German!!
check this site and many others, the tell me if there is an i in Neun
https://blogs.transparent.com/german/german-numbers-1-20/
Rene
Hi Rene,
"No" in German is spelled "Nein"
You get a C-
:-)
-T
And nine in German is spelled "Neun"

But! If there was no Windows Nien, No or 10, however you spell it you
would probably be eating a lot of "Mac & Cheese" :-)

Rene
.
Paul
2020-05-24 04:52:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rene Lamontagne
Post by T
Post by Rene Lamontagne
Post by T
Post by Rene Lamontagne
Post by T
Post by Lucifer
Post by T
Post by Yousuf Khan
What are all of you guys doing to keep the system secure? I'm just
keeping the AV uptodate, leaving the Windows Firewall up.
Yousuf Khan
Hi Yousuf,
I do the same thing.
I also use Brave and Firefox and not M$ browsers or
Googlized Blink (chromium) browsers.
I also only do private stuff through Fedora.
And I might add that W-Nein (W10) being supported
and W7 not, is a false sense of security. M$'s
security is abysmal and you are still under threat
with W-Nein, EVEN with it being supported.
Plus, no updates to W7 mean IT WILL WORK WHEN YOU
TURN IT ON! A lot of folks are not so lucky after
a W-Nein build update.
I do have several customers that have had such
problems with W-Nein updates that they have requested
that I disable W-Nein updates. And, yes, I do give
them the standard warnings to keep their AV and
firewall updated. They can not see how a virus would
do any more damage that what they have experienced
with a W-Nein update.
Me personally, on my W-Nein virtual machine, it is
completely frozen. I only do build updates when
they come out and only from ISO.
What is W-Nein? I've never heard of that.
You should use Windows 10.
"W-Nein (W10)"
Your take on Windows 10 which you call W-Nein,which translates to'
W-No' which doesn't make very much sense.
Rene
Hi Rene,
Learn to count in Germany. Then it will make sense.
M$ deliberately skipped Windows Nine as "nine"
in English sound identical to "Nein" (no) in Germany.
Then they lied and lied and lied their asses off
about it. Not a single programmer had any trouble
telling Windows Nein apart from Windows 98.
Had M$ just been honest, I would have had to just stick
with calling Windows Nein "Son of Frankenstein".
Frankenstein the Elder => Windows Eight
Frankenstein the Younger => Windows Nein
But where would be the fun in that?
Are you following?
-T
no spying
no junkware preloaded
no bloat ware preloaded
no idiot tiles
no web account
no extraneous services
no forced updates
Just a simple, straight forward working version of Windows!
The MOST most sensible version of Windows YET! Just say NO!
Think I will get my wish? Don't hold my breath?
Better *you* learn to count and spell in German!!
check this site and many others, the tell me if there is an i in Neun
https://blogs.transparent.com/german/german-numbers-1-20/
Rene
Hi Rene,
"No" in German is spelled "Nein"
You get a C-
:-)
-T
And nine in German is spelled "Neun"
But! If there was no Windows Nien, No or 10, however you spell it you
would probably be eating a lot of "Mac & Cheese" :-)
Rene
.
https://learn-german-easily.com/counting-in-german

Counting in German 1 to 10.

1 = eins
2 = zwei
3 = drei
4 = vier
5 = fünf
6 = sechs
7 = sieben
8 = acht
9 = neun
10 = zehn

achtundzwanzig 28

"an, auf, hinter, in, neben, uber, unter, vor, und zwischen"

I can still hear my German teachers voice. Even after all these years.

She could kick your ass, and take your name... auf Deutsch.
She was a German teacher, but also the Vice Principal.

Paul
T
2020-05-24 06:21:46 UTC
Permalink
I can still hear my German teachers voice. Even after all these years.
She could kick your ass, and take your name... auf Deutsch.
She was a German teacher, but also the Vice Principal.
   Paul
Stuff of nightmares!
T
2020-05-24 06:22:24 UTC
Permalink
"Mac & Cheese"
Chuckle!
Frank Slootweg
2020-05-24 12:34:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rene Lamontagne
Post by T
Post by Rene Lamontagne
Post by T
Post by Lucifer
Post by T
Post by Yousuf Khan
What are all of you guys doing to keep the system secure? I'm just
keeping the AV uptodate, leaving the Windows Firewall up.
      Yousuf Khan
Hi Yousuf,
I do the same thing.
I also use Brave and Firefox and not M$ browsers or
Googlized Blink (chromium) browsers.
I also only do private stuff through Fedora.
And I might add that W-Nein (W10) being supported
and W7 not, is a false sense of security.  M$'s
security is abysmal and you are still under threat
with W-Nein, EVEN with it being supported.
Plus, no updates to W7 mean IT WILL WORK WHEN YOU
TURN IT ON!   A lot of folks are not so lucky after
a W-Nein build update.
I do have several customers that have had such
problems with W-Nein updates that they have requested
that I disable W-Nein updates.  And, yes, I do give
them the standard warnings to keep their AV and
firewall updated.  They can not see how a virus would
do any more damage that what they have experienced
with a W-Nein update.
Me personally, on my W-Nein virtual machine, it is
completely frozen.  I only do build updates when
they come out and only from ISO.
What is W-Nein? I've never heard of that.
You should use Windows 10.
"W-Nein (W10)"
Your take on Windows 10 which you call W-Nein,which translates to'
W-No'   which doesn't make very much sense.
Rene
Hi Rene,
Learn to count in Germany.  Then it will make sense.
M$ deliberately skipped Windows Nine as "nine"
in English sound identical to "Nein" (no) in Germany.
Then they lied and lied and lied their asses off
about it.  Not a single programmer had any trouble
telling Windows Nein apart from Windows 98.
Had M$ just been honest, I would have had to just stick
with calling Windows Nein "Son of Frankenstein".
   Frankenstein the Elder   => Windows Eight
   Frankenstein the Younger => Windows Nein
But where would be the fun in that?
Are you following?
-T
     no spying
     no junkware preloaded
     no bloat ware preloaded
     no idiot tiles
     no web account
     no extraneous services
     no forced updates
     Just a simple, straight forward working version of Windows!
   The MOST most sensible version of Windows YET!  Just say NO!
Think I will get my wish?  Don't hold my breath?
Better *you* learn to count and spell in German!!
check this site and many others, the tell me if there is an i in Neun
https://blogs.transparent.com/german/german-numbers-1-20/
T's explanation for his fairy tale is not very clear.

I think what he means is:

After Windows 8[.1], the next would be Windows 9, which would be
pronounced as 'windows nine' in English. If - note *if* - a German would
say that, it would sound somewhat like 'windows nein' in German, which
would indeed be equivalent to 'windows no' in English.

However, the blatant flaw in this fairy tale is that a German would
not say 'windows nein', but - as you say - would say 'windows neun'. So
in the real world, the language 'pun' wouldn't/doesn't work.

If the fairy tale isn't of T's own making, it's probably from someone
else who thinks (s)he understands German, but doesn't.
T
2020-05-25 00:41:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Slootweg
Post by Rene Lamontagne
Post by T
Post by Rene Lamontagne
Post by T
Post by Lucifer
Post by T
Post by Yousuf Khan
What are all of you guys doing to keep the system secure? I'm just
keeping the AV uptodate, leaving the Windows Firewall up.
      Yousuf Khan
Hi Yousuf,
I do the same thing.
I also use Brave and Firefox and not M$ browsers or
Googlized Blink (chromium) browsers.
I also only do private stuff through Fedora.
And I might add that W-Nein (W10) being supported
and W7 not, is a false sense of security.  M$'s
security is abysmal and you are still under threat
with W-Nein, EVEN with it being supported.
Plus, no updates to W7 mean IT WILL WORK WHEN YOU
TURN IT ON!   A lot of folks are not so lucky after
a W-Nein build update.
I do have several customers that have had such
problems with W-Nein updates that they have requested
that I disable W-Nein updates.  And, yes, I do give
them the standard warnings to keep their AV and
firewall updated.  They can not see how a virus would
do any more damage that what they have experienced
with a W-Nein update.
Me personally, on my W-Nein virtual machine, it is
completely frozen.  I only do build updates when
they come out and only from ISO.
What is W-Nein? I've never heard of that.
You should use Windows 10.
"W-Nein (W10)"
Your take on Windows 10 which you call W-Nein,which translates to'
W-No'   which doesn't make very much sense.
Rene
Hi Rene,
Learn to count in Germany.  Then it will make sense.
M$ deliberately skipped Windows Nine as "nine"
in English sound identical to "Nein" (no) in Germany.
Then they lied and lied and lied their asses off
about it.  Not a single programmer had any trouble
telling Windows Nein apart from Windows 98.
Had M$ just been honest, I would have had to just stick
with calling Windows Nein "Son of Frankenstein".
   Frankenstein the Elder   => Windows Eight
   Frankenstein the Younger => Windows Nein
But where would be the fun in that?
Are you following?
-T
     no spying
     no junkware preloaded
     no bloat ware preloaded
     no idiot tiles
     no web account
     no extraneous services
     no forced updates
     Just a simple, straight forward working version of Windows!
   The MOST most sensible version of Windows YET!  Just say NO!
Think I will get my wish?  Don't hold my breath?
Better *you* learn to count and spell in German!!
check this site and many others, the tell me if there is an i in Neun
https://blogs.transparent.com/german/german-numbers-1-20/
T's explanation for his fairy tale is not very clear.
After Windows 8[.1], the next would be Windows 9, which would be
pronounced as 'windows nine' in English. If - note *if* - a German would
say that, it would sound somewhat like 'windows nein' in German, which
would indeed be equivalent to 'windows no' in English.
However, the blatant flaw in this fairy tale is that a German would
not say 'windows nein', but - as you say - would say 'windows neun'. So
in the real world, the language 'pun' wouldn't/doesn't work.
If the fairy tale isn't of T's own making, it's probably from someone
else who thinks (s)he understands German, but doesn't.
Hi Frank,

You are looking at this joke from the wrong perspective.
I double any German listening to an English speaker would
notice if Nine sounded like Nein. Most Germans I knew
spoke three languages and highly doubt they would even care.

The things (are they still considered human?) that
freaked out over this are the genetically modified human,
weasel, cock roach hybrids working in M$'s marketing
department. NOTHING THAT EVEN REMOTELY SOUNDS LIKE
"WINDOWS NO" IN ANY LANGUAGE WOULD BE ALLOWED. NEVER!!!

So these genetically modified organisms skipped Nein and
jumped to Ten. Then release a ton of Bovine Excrement
about programmers not being able to tell Windows 98 apart
from Windows Nine.

This is where the joke comes from. Not from what German
speakers hear.

And I would posit that the marketing weasels would have had
to deal with a lot less fall out over the matter if they had just come
clean.

And those that find such things funny would go be back to
trying to trick their Canadian friends into saying "about"
(they say "a-boot"). If you are really lucky, you can even trick them
into singing the In-And-Out Burger song

-T

Here is some of the fall out the GMO Weasels could
have avoided.

Do not listen to this if you have no sense of humor.
No bitching if your listen and get offended. You
were warmed:

Windows Nein?

Frank Slootweg
2020-05-25 12:52:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by T
Post by Frank Slootweg
Post by Rene Lamontagne
Post by T
Post by Rene Lamontagne
Post by T
Post by Lucifer
Post by T
Post by Yousuf Khan
What are all of you guys doing to keep the system secure? I'm just
keeping the AV uptodate, leaving the Windows Firewall up.
      Yousuf Khan
Hi Yousuf,
I do the same thing.
I also use Brave and Firefox and not M$ browsers or
Googlized Blink (chromium) browsers.
I also only do private stuff through Fedora.
And I might add that W-Nein (W10) being supported
and W7 not, is a false sense of security.  M$'s
security is abysmal and you are still under threat
with W-Nein, EVEN with it being supported.
Plus, no updates to W7 mean IT WILL WORK WHEN YOU
TURN IT ON!   A lot of folks are not so lucky after
a W-Nein build update.
I do have several customers that have had such
problems with W-Nein updates that they have requested
that I disable W-Nein updates.  And, yes, I do give
them the standard warnings to keep their AV and
firewall updated.  They can not see how a virus would
do any more damage that what they have experienced
with a W-Nein update.
Me personally, on my W-Nein virtual machine, it is
completely frozen.  I only do build updates when
they come out and only from ISO.
What is W-Nein? I've never heard of that.
You should use Windows 10.
"W-Nein (W10)"
Your take on Windows 10 which you call W-Nein,which translates to'
W-No'   which doesn't make very much sense.
Rene
Hi Rene,
Learn to count in Germany.  Then it will make sense.
M$ deliberately skipped Windows Nine as "nine"
in English sound identical to "Nein" (no) in Germany.
Then they lied and lied and lied their asses off
about it.  Not a single programmer had any trouble
telling Windows Nein apart from Windows 98.
Had M$ just been honest, I would have had to just stick
with calling Windows Nein "Son of Frankenstein".
   Frankenstein the Elder   => Windows Eight
   Frankenstein the Younger => Windows Nein
But where would be the fun in that?
Are you following?
-T
     no spying
     no junkware preloaded
     no bloat ware preloaded
     no idiot tiles
     no web account
     no extraneous services
     no forced updates
     Just a simple, straight forward working version of Windows!
   The MOST most sensible version of Windows YET!  Just say NO!
Think I will get my wish?  Don't hold my breath?
Better *you* learn to count and spell in German!!
check this site and many others, the tell me if there is an i in Neun
https://blogs.transparent.com/german/german-numbers-1-20/
T's explanation for his fairy tale is not very clear.
After Windows 8[.1], the next would be Windows 9, which would be
pronounced as 'windows nine' in English. If - note *if* - a German would
say that, it would sound somewhat like 'windows nein' in German, which
would indeed be equivalent to 'windows no' in English.
However, the blatant flaw in this fairy tale is that a German would
not say 'windows nein', but - as you say - would say 'windows neun'. So
in the real world, the language 'pun' wouldn't/doesn't work.
If the fairy tale isn't of T's own making, it's probably from someone
else who thinks (s)he understands German, but doesn't.
Hi Frank,
You are looking at this joke from the wrong perspective.
No, I don't. I perfectly understood/understand what you meant, I just
don't buy your 'explanation' and I doubt if anyone does.
Post by T
I double any German listening to an English speaker would
notice if Nine sounded like Nein. Most Germans I knew
spoke three languages and highly doubt they would even care.
The things (are they still considered human?) that
freaked out over this are the genetically modified human,
weasel, cock roach hybrids working in M$'s marketing
department. NOTHING THAT EVEN REMOTELY SOUNDS LIKE
"WINDOWS NO" IN ANY LANGUAGE WOULD BE ALLOWED. NEVER!!!
So these genetically modified organisms skipped Nein and
jumped to Ten. Then release a ton of Bovine Excrement
about programmers not being able to tell Windows 98 apart
from Windows Nine.
Instead of more of your tantrums, you might want to present some
actual - credible - evidence of your fairy tale.

Sofar, only your bashing/dislike/hatred of anything Microsoft is
talking and it's both childish and boring.

I'm no Microsoft (or Google, or ...) fan, but while 'jokes' like this
might be somewhat funny the first time, after a few hundred/thousand
times, they become rather thin.
Post by T
This is where the joke comes from. Not from what German
speakers hear.
And I would posit that the marketing weasels would have had
to deal with a lot less fall out over the matter if they had just come
clean.
[...]
T
2020-05-25 18:00:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Slootweg
I'm no Microsoft (or Google, or ...) fan, but while 'jokes' like this
might be somewhat funny the first time, after a few hundred/thousand
times, they become rather thin.
Me thinks the lady doth protect too much, fanboi
Frank Slootweg
2020-05-25 18:38:18 UTC
Permalink
Pathetic silent snipping duly noted.
Post by T
Post by Frank Slootweg
I'm no Microsoft (or Google, or ...) fan, but while 'jokes' like this
might be somewhat funny the first time, after a few hundred/thousand
times, they become rather thin.
Me thinks the lady doth protect too much, fanboi
Still having problems with the 'no' word, I see!

Anyway, you obviously can't deliver and hence your 'explanation' is
indeed a fairy tale of your own making. Thanks for the - totally
superfluous, mind you - confirmation.

Please put me back in your - apparently imaginary/non-functioning -
killfile.
T
2020-05-25 19:50:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Slootweg
Pathetic silent snipping duly noted.
Post by T
Post by Frank Slootweg
I'm no Microsoft (or Google, or ...) fan, but while 'jokes' like this
might be somewhat funny the first time, after a few hundred/thousand
times, they become rather thin.
Me thinks the lady doth protect too much, fanboi
Still having problems with the 'no' word, I see!
Anyway, you obviously can't deliver and hence your 'explanation' is
indeed a fairy tale of your own making. Thanks for the - totally
superfluous, mind you - confirmation.
Please put me back in your - apparently imaginary/non-functioning -
killfile.
First off fanboi, I am going to look around and see
if you actually help anyone or are just a troll
T
2020-05-25 21:46:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by T
   Pathetic silent snipping duly noted.
Post by T
Post by Frank Slootweg
I'm no Microsoft (or Google, or ...) fan, but while 'jokes' like this
might be somewhat funny the first time, after a few hundred/thousand
times, they become rather thin.
Me thinks the lady doth protect too much, fanboi
   Still having problems with the 'no' word, I see!
   Anyway, you obviously can't deliver and hence your 'explanation' is
indeed a fairy tale of your own making. Thanks for the - totally
superfluous, mind you - confirmation.
   Please put me back in your - apparently imaginary/non-functioning -
killfile.
First off fanboi, I am going to look around and see
if you actually help anyone or are just a troll
Only found one "sort of" an answer. And since you have been
in my "ass holes" filter before, you are a nym shifter too.

By the way, it only takes me five easy mouse clicks and
you are back in ass holes. It is a lot more work for
you to keep coming up with new addresses.

Thank you for helping me updates my filter.
Sam E
2020-05-24 17:58:57 UTC
Permalink
[snip]
Post by T
Had M$ just been honest, I would have had to just stick
with calling Windows Nein "Son of Frankenstein".
   Frankenstein the Elder   => Windows Eight
   Frankenstein the Younger => Windows Nein
But where would be the fun in that?
Are you following?
"Frankenstein" is NOT the name of the monster. Otherwise, this makes sense.


[snip]
--
"Even a religion like Christianity purportedly created to champion the
poor and downtrodden was later taken over by the rich and powerful for
their own benefit." --C. W. Dalton
T
2020-05-25 00:18:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by notX
[snip]
Post by T
Had M$ just been honest, I would have had to just stick
with calling Windows Nein "Son of Frankenstein".
    Frankenstein the Elder   => Windows Eight
    Frankenstein the Younger => Windows Nein
But where would be the fun in that?
Are you following?
"Frankenstein" is NOT the name of the monster. Otherwise, this makes sense.
[snip]
Poor Dr. Frankenstein. His monster has been called Frankenstein so many
times it has taken his monster's
meaning

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Frankenstein
2: : a monstrous creation

But if you wanted to be really technical, Frankenstein
would be the genetically modified human, weasel, cock roach
hybrids working in M$'s marketing department that decided
it would be a good idea to graft a frog on to a goat on
to a desktop on to a table.
tesla sTinker
2020-05-17 20:43:10 UTC
Permalink
first thing you do, is get rid of the firewall. Get a private firewall.
MS is a crook, and they left their firewall, unable to manipulate it.
Yes, for perverse reasons. Then go thru your services, remove what is
not wanted. You do that thru the administrative tools then services.
I suggest you close any ms services, so they cannot sneak thru the
firewall to damage your machine.

Because of several locks in place, you may not be able to remove the
firewall, but you can certainly turn it off.
Post by Yousuf Khan
What are all of you guys doing to keep the system secure? I'm just
keeping the AV uptodate, leaving the Windows Firewall up.
Yousuf Khan
Yousuf Khan
2020-05-18 03:55:54 UTC
Permalink
first thing you do, is get rid of the firewall.  Get a private firewall.
MS is a crook, and they left their firewall, unable to manipulate it.
Yes, for perverse reasons.  Then go thru your services, remove what is
not wanted.  You do that thru the administrative tools then services.
I suggest you close any ms services, so they cannot sneak thru the
firewall to damage your machine.
Do you know of any documented weaknesses with the Windows Firewall?
Microsoft being given permission to go through the Firewall doesn't
sound any worse than any other program that you're running that you've
given it permission to penetrate the firewall, that's just standard
practice.

Yousuf Khan
Stan Brown
2020-05-18 21:35:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yousuf Khan
[quoted text muted]
Yes, for perverse reasons.  Then go thru your services, remove what is
not wanted.  You do that thru the administrative tools then services.
I suggest you close any ms services, so they cannot sneak thru the
firewall to damage your machine.
Do you know of any documented weaknesses with the Windows Firewall?
Microsoft being given permission to go through the Firewall doesn't
sound any worse than any other program that you're running that you've
given it permission to penetrate the firewall, that's just standard
practice.
Yousuf Khan
There you go again, using logic!
--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA
https://BrownMath.com/
https://OakRoadSystems.com/
Shikata ga nai...
Lucifer
2020-05-23 04:52:18 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 17 May 2020 23:55:54 -0400, Yousuf Khan
Post by Yousuf Khan
first thing you do, is get rid of the firewall.  Get a private firewall.
MS is a crook, and they left their firewall, unable to manipulate it.
Yes, for perverse reasons.  Then go thru your services, remove what is
not wanted.  You do that thru the administrative tools then services.
I suggest you close any ms services, so they cannot sneak thru the
firewall to damage your machine.
Do you know of any documented weaknesses with the Windows Firewall?
Microsoft being given permission to go through the Firewall doesn't
sound any worse than any other program that you're running that you've
given it permission to penetrate the firewall, that's just standard
practice.
Yousuf Khan
First fix your date. There is no 17th month.
notX
2020-05-23 18:07:08 UTC
Permalink
On 5/22/20 11:52 PM, Lucifer wrote:

[snip]
Post by Lucifer
First fix your date. There is no 17th month.
I wish people would stop using middle-endian date format. At least
5/17/2020 isn't ambiguous like 5/17/20 or 5/6/20.
Ed Cryer
2020-05-23 18:15:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by notX
[snip]
Post by Lucifer
First fix your date. There is no 17th month.
I wish people would stop using middle-endian date format. At least
5/17/2020 isn't ambiguous like 5/17/20 or 5/6/20.
I wish people would use date formats that are used in my daily discourse.
Today , eg, is 23.05.20

Ed
Brian Gregory
2020-05-23 18:17:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by notX
[snip]
Post by Lucifer
First fix your date. There is no 17th month.
I wish people would stop using middle-endian date format. At least
5/17/2020 isn't ambiguous like 5/17/20 or 5/6/20.
AFAIK what you call middle-endian is a weird North American thing and
the rest of the world uses big-endian or little-endian.
--
Brian Gregory (in England).
Ed Cryer
2020-05-23 18:20:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Gregory
Post by notX
[snip]
Post by Lucifer
First fix your date. There is no 17th month.
I wish people would stop using middle-endian date format. At least
5/17/2020 isn't ambiguous like 5/17/20 or 5/6/20.
AFAIK what you call middle-endian is a weird North American thing and
the rest of the world uses big-endian or little-endian.
Gulliver never had such problems!

Ed
Frank Slootweg
2020-05-23 19:50:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Gregory
Post by notX
[snip]
Post by Lucifer
First fix your date. There is no 17th month.
I wish people would stop using middle-endian date format. At least
5/17/2020 isn't ambiguous like 5/17/20 or 5/6/20.
AFAIK what you call middle-endian is a weird North American thing and
the rest of the world uses big-endian or little-endian.
--
Brian Gregory (in England).
Why did you say "weird North American thing"? Isn't "North American
thing" descriptive enough?
Brian Gregory
2020-05-23 21:22:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Slootweg
Post by Brian Gregory
Post by notX
[snip]
Post by Lucifer
First fix your date. There is no 17th month.
I wish people would stop using middle-endian date format. At least
5/17/2020 isn't ambiguous like 5/17/20 or 5/6/20.
AFAIK what you call middle-endian is a weird North American thing and
the rest of the world uses big-endian or little-endian.
--
Brian Gregory (in England).
Why did you say "weird North American thing"? Isn't "North American
thing" descriptive enough?
Because WTF would anyone think middle first then least significant then
most significant made ANY sense at all for any possible use?
--
Brian Gregory (in England).
Frank Slootweg
2020-05-24 10:37:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Gregory
Post by Frank Slootweg
Post by Brian Gregory
Post by notX
[snip]
Post by Lucifer
First fix your date. There is no 17th month.
I wish people would stop using middle-endian date format. At least
5/17/2020 isn't ambiguous like 5/17/20 or 5/6/20.
AFAIK what you call middle-endian is a weird North American thing and
the rest of the world uses big-endian or little-endian.
--
Brian Gregory (in England).
Why did you say "weird North American thing"? Isn't "North American
thing" descriptive enough?
Because WTF would anyone think middle first then least significant then
most significant made ANY sense at all for any possible use?
Sorry, case of sarchasm.

What I meant: When you say "weird North American thing" that implies
that there are also North American things which are *not* weird! Are
there!? :-)
Post by Brian Gregory
--
Brian Gregory (in England).
Brian Gregory
2020-05-24 21:25:52 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Frank Slootweg
Post by Brian Gregory
Post by Frank Slootweg
Why did you say "weird North American thing"? Isn't "North American
thing" descriptive enough?
Because WTF would anyone think middle first then least significant then
most significant made ANY sense at all for any possible use?
Sorry, case of sarchasm.
What I meant: When you say "weird North American thing" that implies
that there are also North American things which are *not* weird! Are
there!? :-)
Ah.
Yeah often I'm well below average at spotting intended meanings.
Autism?

You're more right than ever, about the US anyway, got a bit of a soft
spot for Canada.
--
Brian Gregory (in England).
Frank Slootweg
2020-05-25 12:25:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Gregory
<snip>
Post by Frank Slootweg
Post by Brian Gregory
Post by Frank Slootweg
Why did you say "weird North American thing"? Isn't "North American
thing" descriptive enough?
Because WTF would anyone think middle first then least significant then
most significant made ANY sense at all for any possible use?
Sorry, case of sarchasm.
What I meant: When you say "weird North American thing" that implies
that there are also North American things which are *not* weird! Are
there!? :-)
Ah.
Yeah often I'm well below average at spotting intended meanings.
Autism?
Nah! My comment was way too much tongue-in-cheek and your interpetation
was the most logical.
Post by Brian Gregory
You're more right than ever, about the US anyway, got a bit of a soft
spot for Canada.
Yes, oops! I hope no Canucks were hurt/offended. [1]

[1] Probably not. AFAIK, they're not that thin-skinned.
Mark Lloyd
2020-05-24 17:45:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Gregory
Post by notX
[snip]
Post by Lucifer
First fix your date. There is no 17th month.
I wish people would stop using middle-endian date format. At least
5/17/2020 isn't ambiguous like 5/17/20 or 5/6/20.
AFAIK what you call middle-endian
Don't blame me for that
Post by Brian Gregory
is a weird North American thing and
the rest of the world uses big-endian or little-endian.
I prefer big-endian such as 2020-05-24.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"There must be a Silicon Heaven. Where do all the calculators go?"
[Kryten, "Red Dwarf"]
John Hall
2020-05-24 19:18:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Lloyd
Post by Brian Gregory
Post by notX
[snip]
Post by Lucifer
First fix your date. There is no 17th month.
I wish people would stop using middle-endian date format. At least
5/17/2020 isn't ambiguous like 5/17/20 or 5/6/20.
AFAIK what you call middle-endian
Don't blame me for that
Post by Brian Gregory
is a weird North American thing and the rest of the world uses
big-endian or little-endian.
I prefer big-endian such as 2020-05-24.
It would at least be consistent with our recording the time of day as
hours, minutes and seconds. (And imagine the scope for confusion if
countries didn't all put the components in the same order!)
--
John Hall
"It is a very sad thing that nowadays there is so little useless
information."
Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)
Brian Gregory
2020-05-24 21:26:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Lloyd
Post by Brian Gregory
Post by notX
[snip]
Post by Lucifer
First fix your date. There is no 17th month.
I wish people would stop using middle-endian date format. At least
5/17/2020 isn't ambiguous like 5/17/20 or 5/6/20.
AFAIK what you call middle-endian
Don't blame me for that
Post by Brian Gregory
is a weird North American thing and the rest of the world uses
big-endian or little-endian.
I prefer big-endian such as 2020-05-24.
Me too. I rename all my dated files that way.
--
Brian Gregory (in England).
Mark Lloyd
2020-05-24 17:48:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Gregory
Post by notX
[snip]
Post by Lucifer
First fix your date. There is no 17th month.
I wish people would stop using middle-endian date format. At least
5/17/2020 isn't ambiguous like 5/17/20 or 5/6/20.
AFAIK what you call middle-endian is a weird North American thing and
the rest of the world uses big-endian or little-endian.
When I get a choice I use big-endian, as in 2020-5-24 (or sometimes
20200524).
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"There must be a Silicon Heaven. Where do all the calculators go?"
[Kryten, "Red Dwarf"]
Brian Gregory
2020-05-24 21:28:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Lloyd
Post by Brian Gregory
Post by notX
[snip]
Post by Lucifer
First fix your date. There is no 17th month.
I wish people would stop using middle-endian date format. At least
5/17/2020 isn't ambiguous like 5/17/20 or 5/6/20.
AFAIK what you call middle-endian is a weird North American thing and
the rest of the world uses big-endian or little-endian.
When I get a choice I use big-endian, as in 2020-5-24 (or sometimes
20200524).
+1
--
Brian Gregory (in England).
Mike Easter
2020-05-23 18:29:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by notX
Post by Lucifer
First fix your date. There is no 17th month.
I wish people would stop using middle-endian date format. At least
5/17/2020 isn't ambiguous like 5/17/20 or 5/6/20.
Slashed dates are 'non-standard', so localities do it however they like.

Logically the 'best' date format would be big-endian, which is the way
ISO 8601 does it, but not w/ slashes but w/ dashes. We also see some
publications which use dots as dividers choose an ambiguous order like
the slashers do.

In 'mixed company' which is using a mixed-endian order, I believe that
the month should be spelled out in some multilingually distinguishable
way, which would probably require at least 3 letters. Most suggestions
for 2-letter month abbreviations contain some kind of 'controversy' in
the scheme, just like standards for 2-letter abbreviations for US states
contain controversial choices or ambiguity instead of a consistent
syntax formula or order to eliminate ambiguity.
--
Mike Easter
tesla sTinker
2020-06-03 20:05:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yousuf Khan
Post by tesla sTinker
first thing you do, is get rid of the firewall. Get a private firewall.
MS is a crook, and they left their firewall, unable to manipulate it.
Yes, for perverse reasons. Then go thru your services, remove what is
not wanted. You do that thru the administrative tools then services.
I suggest you close any ms services, so they cannot sneak thru the
firewall to damage your machine.
Do you know of any documented weaknesses with the Windows Firewall?
Microsoft being given permission to go through the Firewall doesn't
sound any worse than any other program that you're running that you've
given it permission to penetrate the firewall, that's just standard
practice.
Yousuf Khan
The ports being open. if you open a port, anyone can go thru it, unless
you give it a wall of a real firewall. Which means, you stipulate the
port. Let me see you do that with Windows Firewall, you cannot...
Bill Gates, did not permit this. Not in his firewall. Not for his
services. He is like the largest murderer on the planet. Do you think,
he is going
to give you a break?

if you give a program permission, than its up to the operator to watch
what information is being exchanged. This is one of the reasons Gates
made the svc host, so that no one could tell what is really happening,
unless you get to real extensive watching with the resource monitor, and
even it, does not tell you everything.??? Which is why some use a third
party software to see what the svc host program is using and running on
and of.

A real firewall, you can stipulate the reasons you let it go past. On
any port. Why would anyone want a vaccine for microsoft op systems.
Cause they do not work. And he knows, in time, the world will see what
he has done. So now, he is trying to rip off the world with a phony
virus for people. You can believe, he is an ass hole. Which is why,
you would change the firewall pronto, amongst many other things.

Lucifer
2020-05-23 04:50:45 UTC
Permalink
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style




On Sun, 17 May 2020 13:43:10 -0700, tesla sTinker
Post by tesla sTinker
first thing you do, is get rid of the firewall. Get a private firewall.
MS is a crook, and they left their firewall, unable to manipulate it.
Yes, for perverse reasons. Then go thru your services, remove what is
not wanted. You do that thru the administrative tools then services.
I suggest you close any ms services, so they cannot sneak thru the
firewall to damage your machine.
Because of several locks in place, you may not be able to remove the
firewall, but you can certainly turn it off.
Post by Yousuf Khan
What are all of you guys doing to keep the system secure? I'm just
keeping the AV uptodate, leaving the Windows Firewall up.
Yousuf Khan
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