How to refresh web page with FFx 115 w/Win 7?

[k***@nowhere.com]

Need to refresh page after clearing history, etc. Tired of killing
FFx and reloading it.

[Java Jive]

Post by k***@nowhere.com
Need to refresh page after clearing history, etc. Tired of killing
FFx and reloading it.

It depends on such things as caching, but usually holding down the
<Shift> key while you click the Reload button is sufficient.

[k***@nowhere.com]

Post by Java Jive

Post by k***@nowhere.com
Need to refresh page after clearing history, etc. Tired of killing
FFx and reloading it.

It depends on such things as caching, but usually holding down the
<Shift> key while you click the Reload button is sufficient.

There ain't no Reload button on my Win 7 screen, not even when Right
clicking on the screen. Used to be that way in XP.

Besides, Revv solved it with Ctrl-Shift-R.

[Zaidy036]

Post by Java Jive

Need to refresh page after clearing history, etc.  Tired of killing
FFx and reloading it.

It depends on such things as caching, but usually holding down the
<Shift> key while you click the Reload button is sufficient.

Another helpful add-on is "Clear Site Cookies" which is especially
useful when searching for an acceptable airfare and then returning to
the site where you want to buy.

[k***@nowhere.com]

Post by Zaidy036

Post by Java Jive

Need to refresh page after clearing history, etc.  Tired of killing
FFx and reloading it.

It depends on such things as caching, but usually holding down the
<Shift> key while you click the Reload button is sufficient.

Another helpful add-on is "Clear Site Cookies" which is especially
useful when searching for an acceptable airfare and then returning to
the site where you want to buy.

Post by Java Jive
Need to refresh page after clearing history, etc. Tired of killing
FFx and reloading it.

So, it was after clearing the data that I wanted the refresh page
thingy. Some people didn't read my post properly.

Whatever, it's done. Bye-bye.

[Revvie Quar]

Post by k***@nowhere.com
Need to refresh page after clearing history, etc. Tired of killing
FFx and reloading it.

I believe Ctrl+Shift+R ought to do the trick.

[k***@nowhere.com]

Post by Revvie Quar

Post by k***@nowhere.com
Need to refresh page after clearing history, etc. Tired of killing
FFx and reloading it.

I believe Ctrl+Shift+R ought to do the trick.

That did it.

Why do they change such simple choices? In XP, a right click on the
screen does it by choosing Reload.

Why do these idiot programmers keep changing menus wherein it takes
double or triple clicks to do what one used to do? And I should not
have to learn a new menu of clicks each time to do simple and frequent
stuff.

I think these software "geniuses" are totally out of the reality of
the users world.

[Revvie Quar]

Post by k***@nowhere.com

Post by Revvie Quar

Post by k***@nowhere.com
Need to refresh page after clearing history, etc. Tired of killing
FFx and reloading it.

I believe Ctrl+Shift+R ought to do the trick.

That did it.
Why do they change such simple choices? In XP, a right click on the
screen does it by choosing Reload.
Why do these idiot programmers keep changing menus wherein it takes
double or triple clicks to do what one used to do? And I should not
have to learn a new menu of clicks each time to do simple and frequent
stuff.
I think these software "geniuses" are totally out of the reality of
the users world.

Cool. Pleased to know that helped you.

[VanguardLH]

Post by k***@nowhere.com
Need to refresh page after clearing history, etc. Tired of killing
FFx and reloading it.

Firefox shortcut keys are mentioned at:

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/keyboard-shortcuts-perform-firefox-tasks-quickly

F5, or Ctrl+R = reload (but can use cached copy)
Ctrl+F5, or Ctrl+Shift+R = reload (override cache)

[VanguardLH]

Post by VanguardLH

Post by k***@nowhere.com
Need to refresh page after clearing history, etc. Tired of killing
FFx and reloading it.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/keyboard-shortcuts-perform-firefox-tasks-quickly
F5, or Ctrl+R = reload (but can use cached copy)
Ctrl+F5, or Ctrl+Shift+R = reload (override cache)

Oops, see Kerman beat me by 9 minutes.

[Jörg Lorenz]

Post by k***@nowhere.com
Need to refresh page after clearing history, etc. Tired of killing
FFx and reloading it.

Do what the others recommend and then customize the toolbar and include
the reload-button.

HTH, Jörg

[Newyana2]

Post by k***@nowhere.com
Need to refresh page after clearing history, etc. Tired of killing
FFx and reloading it.

Circular arrow icon on the toolbar. If it's not there
then go to View -> Toolbars -> Customize
Toolbar and drag that icon to the toolbar.

I can't imagine how you've gone without that icon.
It's also handy because it turns into an X when a page is
loading, so if a page gets stuck you can stop the load.
Once it shows as the circle arrow you know the page
is done loading.

[John K.Eason]

*Date:* Sat, 03 Aug 2024 10:30:25 -0500
Need to refresh page after clearing history, etc. Tired of killing
FFx and reloading it.

The same as it's always been (and still is in W10). Hit F5.

[Stan Brown]

Post by k***@nowhere.com
Need to refresh page after clearing history, etc. Tired of killing
FFx and reloading it.

Have F5 and Ctrl+R stopped working?

[k***@nowhere.com]

On Sat, 3 Aug 2024 11:22:49 -0700, Stan Brown

Post by Stan Brown

Post by k***@nowhere.com
Need to refresh page after clearing history, etc. Tired of killing
FFx and reloading it.

Have F5 and Ctrl+R stopped working?

Nope. They work, too. I shouldn't have to use keys. Right Click in
XP was easier and quicker.

I didn't know 'bout these last two, either. I shouldn't have to
relearn new menus to do simple stuff. No damn reason for them taking
the Reload off of the Right click bit. They've done even worse with
their idiotic "progressive" updates. I have little respect for these
programmers who keep screwing up a once simple browser. (Ah, musings
of easy, simple Netscape Navigator.)

[VanguardLH]

... I shouldn't have to relearn new menus to do simple stuff. No damn
reason for them taking the Reload off of the Right click bit. ...

The right-click on a web page to reload it (from cache if a copy of the
web page is there) is still available. Load a web page, right-click on
it, and look in the context dialog. At the top in the context menu's is
its toolbar, and included is the clockwise circle icon for reload.

To see an example of the right-click context menu, and its toolbar that
includes the Reload icon, see:

Loading Image...

There's a reload icon in the main toolbar, too, at the left of the
address bar unless you customized the toolbar to remove it. However,
you need to add modifier key(s) to override the default behavior of
reloading a web page from cache which is much faster, but may not have
the latest copy of the web page.

[Newyana2]

Post by k***@nowhere.com
No damn reason for them taking
the Reload off of the Right click bit.

It's on my context menu, as the circling arrow icon. you might
be able to get a text item "Refresh" through userChrome.css but
it will likely take some hunting to figure it out. I was able to remove
"Open in New Tab" (when right-clicking a link) and various other things.

[k***@nowhere.com]

Post by Newyana2

Post by k***@nowhere.com
No damn reason for them taking
the Reload off of the Right click bit.

It's on my context menu, as the circling arrow icon.

That is it! Why in the hell do they play these ridiculous games
transforming simple and often used menu items? That's hardly
"progress". It's a pain in the arse.

[Newyana2]

Post by k***@nowhere.com

Post by Newyana2

Post by k***@nowhere.com
No damn reason for them taking
the Reload off of the Right click bit.

It's on my context menu, as the circling arrow icon.

That is it! Why in the hell do they play these ridiculous games
transforming simple and often used menu items? That's hardly
"progress". It's a pain in the arse.

Near as I can tell, most of their staff are college kids hopped
up on soda and candy. I think the problem is that for many of
these kids the attraction is the cameraderie. You can see it in
Linux discussions and in the endless bug discussions. Their social
life is fiddling with the software project of the day. So they need
things to work on.

There was a topic recently about the problem of crossposted
usenet posts showing up as new in each group. Even my Outlook
Express from '98 had no trouble recognizing that I'd already read
one copy and "de-bolding" the same post in the next group. Yet
the Mozillians seem to think it's as challenging as perpetual
motion. There was a discussion thread online that spanned more
that 25 years! This numbered bug discussion is just one of many
bug numbers assigned to the bug:

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43278

Every once in awhile someone would ask if anyone
was working on it. The bug still isn't fixed! But they find something
to change every month so that they can kick out scheduled releases.
It's pure madness.

It seems to be similar with many of the minor adjustments. Some
kid high on skittles decides to change something, and maybe he
tells a friend. It doesn't make it into docs. The first case of that
I remember was the old option to block 3rd-party images. It was
in the settings. The pref was network.image.imageBehavior. Suddenly
they removed the GUI setting, but they also changed the pref to
permissions.default.image, creating an entirely new category of pref.
No other setting started with "permissions". Not only that... the values
of the possible settings were also changed!

Another factor that seems to be widely underestimated is that most
programmers these days are cellphone addicts. They don't often use
computers. That's why websites and browsers often have "hamburger
menus", for example. It's a terrible design on a desktop, but the only
design that works well on cellphones where only one window can show
at a time. The programmers are all using browsers on cellphones,
so they decide to remove desktop menus and put hamburger icons
everywhere. There seems to be no design and usability staff.

But it could be worse. We could have no Firefox at all. Then we'd
have to use Chromium in some form.

[Paul]

  > No damn reason for them taking

Post by k***@nowhere.com
the Reload off of the Right click bit.

   It's on my context menu, as the circling arrow icon.

That is it!  Why in  the hell do they play these ridiculous games
transforming simple and often used menu items?  That's hardly
"progress".  It's a pain in the arse.

  Near as I can tell, most of their staff are college kids hopped
up on soda and candy. I think the problem is that for many of
these kids the attraction is the cameraderie. You can see it in
Linux discussions and in the endless bug discussions. Their social
life is fiddling with the software project of the day. So they need
things to work on.
  There was a topic recently about the problem of crossposted
usenet posts showing up as new in each group. Even my Outlook
Express from '98 had no trouble recognizing that I'd already read
one copy and "de-bolding" the same post in the next group. Yet
the Mozillians seem to think it's as challenging as perpetual
motion. There was a discussion thread online that spanned more
that 25 years! This numbered bug discussion is just one of many
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43278
   Every once in awhile someone would ask if anyone
was working on it. The bug still isn't fixed! But they find something
to change every month so that they can kick out scheduled releases.
It's pure madness.
  It seems to be similar with many of the minor adjustments. Some
kid high on skittles decides to change something, and maybe he
tells a friend. It doesn't make it into docs. The first case of that
I remember was the old option to block 3rd-party images. It was
in the settings. The pref was network.image.imageBehavior. Suddenly
they removed the GUI setting, but they also changed the pref to
permissions.default.image, creating an entirely new category of pref.
No other setting started with "permissions". Not only that... the values
of the possible settings were also changed!
  Another factor that seems to be widely underestimated is that most
programmers these days are cellphone addicts. They don't often use
computers. That's why websites and browsers often have "hamburger
menus", for example. It's a terrible design on a desktop, but the only
design that works well on cellphones where only one window can show
at a time. The programmers are all using browsers on cellphones,
so they decide to remove desktop menus and put hamburger icons
everywhere. There seems to be no design and usability staff.
  But it could be worse. We could have no Firefox at all. Then we'd
have to use Chromium in some form.

There seems to be quite a bit of interest in smartphone-oriented Thunderbird here.

https://planet.mozilla.org/thunderbird/

Hmmmm.

Paul

[Newyana2]

Post by Paul
There seems to be quite a bit of interest in smartphone-oriented Thunderbird here.
https://planet.mozilla.org/thunderbird/
Hmmmm.

As K-9 mail? My ladyfriend uses Nine. I thought I
remembered K-9 going out of businness and Nine being
what remained. I must have something mixed up.

They fixed 1400 bugs and hope to integrate TB into
the system with a systray icon? What's the matter with
these people?! I think I don't want to know any more
about what they're planning. I'm just going to stick with
FF78.

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Sun, 4 Aug 2024 08:32:01 -0400

Post by Newyana2

Post by Paul
There seems to be quite a bit of interest in smartphone-oriented Thunderbird here.
https://planet.mozilla.org/thunderbird/
Hmmmm.

As K-9 mail? My ladyfriend uses Nine. I thought I
remembered K-9 going out of businness and Nine being
what remained. I must have something mixed up.
They fixed 1400 bugs and hope to integrate TB into
the system with a systray icon? What's the matter with
these people?! I think I don't want to know any more
about what they're planning. I'm just going to stick with
FF78.

I can remember back when version numbers went as far as 3 or 4!

[Newyana2]

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John

Post by Newyana2
They fixed 1400 bugs and hope to integrate TB into
the system with a systray icon? What's the matter with
these people?! I think I don't want to know any more
about what they're planning. I'm just going to stick with
FF78.

I can remember back when version numbers went as far as 3 or 4!

Sure, but that was last month.

[Java Jive]

  Another factor that seems to be widely underestimated is that most
programmers these days are cellphone addicts. They don't often use
computers. That's why websites and browsers often have "hamburger
menus", for example. It's a terrible design on a desktop, but the only
design that works well on cellphones where only one window can show
at a time. The programmers are all using browsers on cellphones,
so they decide to remove desktop menus and put hamburger icons
everywhere. There seems to be no design and usability staff.

Another factor that seems to be widely underestimated is that most of
those programmers know SFA, because they've never been trained properly,
about how to design formally anything with usability, let alone
accessibility in mind. I've already told the beginning of this story in
uk.telecom.mobile [in what follows, that was abbreviated and paraphrased
from the original thread into a complaint below to Three UK], so here's
how it ended. First, my complaint to Three UK:

"""SNAFU #1: Last October I enabled mobile data on my Samsung SM-T719
tablet, so thought I'd better check whether my PAYG needed topping up.
On launching the [Three] app on the tablet, a message came-up saying
that it was discontinued, I should uninstall it, and install its
replacement, but the new app wouldn't install, probably because it's an
old version of Android.

SNAFU #2: Your site is dire, but having no choice I moved to my PC:
"We've been updating our systems. My3 is now better than ever, but you
must re-register to access your account." I went through the tedious
process twice, in PM & Firefox when the first failed. When finally I
accessed my account details, the DoB was wrong and still is because I
can't change it.

SNAFU #3: I have two phone numbers with Three which historically were
given two different account numbers, the other being for a data SIM in
my router. When I try to re-register that account, I cannot because I
already have an account registered with the same details."""

This is the relevant excerpt of what I got in reply from Three UK:

"""Thank you for contacting Three.

I’m sorry to hear that you’re unhappy with your recent experience
related to the issue with My3 app registration issue.

I have reviewed your account with number ending 0175 and see the PAY G
account is active.

However, if you have issues with the MY3 app registration, we request
you to contact us so we can check the details on real time basis.

You can live chat with us here
https://www.three.co.uk/support/contact-us
so we can rectify the issue quickly.

If you’re happy to accept the above as full and final resolution to
your complaint, please confirm by reply to this email. If we don’t"""

To which I replied as follows:

"""First, as no-one appears to have bothered to read it properly, let me
remind you of the original text of my complaint:

[Repeated list of SNAFUs]

So ... The DoB on my account is STILL wrong - do you *REALLY* think I'm
124 years old? I have STILL not been able to re-register my contract
data SIM as explained above, and your damned-fool inadequately tested
site software changes have already wasted a considerable amount of my
time. Given all that, in what way do you think the hopeless response
above [orig: 'below'] is in ANY WAY an adequate answer to my complaint?"""

To which they replied as follows:

"""Thanks for your response.

I understand how important it is to access the account online and
correct the date of birth. Be rest assured Charles, I'll help you.

About Three app / online My3 login:

[Anonymised], if you've two different accounts the same email id cannot
be used to register to the Three app. You can update different email
address on your account and then register second account to access it.

[Note the above point particularly, because it tells us something in
relation to this subthread]

After using a different email id if you're still facing issue with
online login, please call us as being a technical issue it's advised to
sort over the call.

About date of birth:

To update your date of birth, please send us a copy of one of the following:

Birth Certificate
Passport
Photographic Driving Licence.

Please email a copy of the proof to ***@contact.three.co.uk, with
the following details:

Name (as registered on the account)
Date of birth
Postcode registered on the account
Three phone number
Three account number (this usually starts with a 9 or 1)
Registered email address
Details of the request

Once we've received your email, we'll update your account and reply by
email in 5 working days

[Anonymised], I'm sorry for the inconvenience caused to you.

If you’re happy to accept the above as full and final resolution to your
complaint, please confirm by reply to this email. If we don’t hear from
you within 28 days, we’ll take no further action."""

I have not bothered to reply to the above ignorant garbage, instead I
jumped ship. I now have an alternative data SIM deal for £10pm less
than I was paying Three UK, and a Pay Monthly SIM deal for my mobile
that works out at about the same as I was paying Three UK on PAYG.

But the point at issue here is this: The above story tells us that:

:-( Three UK care so little about their existing customers and their
time that they are prepared to turf them out of their databases and
force them to re-register everything from scratch.

:-( However they won't let them be trusted to change important
details such as DoB, from what seemingly was just a system default.

:-( And also they arbitrarily discontinue stuff that people are
still using.

:-( But, perhaps most importantly of all, their programmers know SFA
about data programming, because it's obvious that if you can't have two
accounts using the same email address or, as an alternative, cannot
merge details from two contracts into one account under one email
address, then their data is not held in Third Normal Form* as industry
standards would dictate should be the case.

* A system of removing duplication and interdependence of data by
structuring all data that is mutually dependent in separate tables and
using indexes as cross-links between related data.

To simplify things too much in the pursuit of an understandable example,
I am a 'Customer', so my data - email and postal addresses, age, etc
- should be kept as one entry in a table of 'Customers'. Likewise
details of each 'Contract' I have with Three UK each should be a
separate table entry in a table of 'Contracts', each of which contains
an index or link back to my relevant 'Customer' data in the 'Customers'
table. Clearly, from their explanation above, my 'Customer' data is
being held in the same table as my 'Contract' data, so their data cannot
be in 3NF, a very basic error of data programming.

Yet again I cry: "Just *WHO* programs this shit?"

[Newyana2]

  :-(  But, perhaps most importantly of all, their programmers know SFA
about data programming, because it's obvious that if you can't have two
accounts using the same email address or, as an alternative, cannot
merge details from two contracts into one account under one email
address, then their data is not held in Third Normal Form* as industry
standards would dictate should be the case.

And maybe there's no one minding the store. It sounds like you have
two problems. One is badly designed website and/or software. The other
is that either automated software or a child in India is the tech support.

I ran into this kind of thing recently with a VOIP phone plan from
AxVoice.
The hardware failed after a year. I couldn't get a sensible response from
them. no phone number. Their only responses would come between 5 and
7 PM the day after I wrote to them. It might have been automated software.
Or it might be some kid in India wo works 2 hours per day answering email.

I gave up and signed with Vonage. They has a phone number. Very different
experience. AxVoice demanded that I send back all the free hardware and
debited my cerdit card in the meantime. I carefully packed up the broken
device and the used ethernet cable. To their credit, AxVoice did at least
deal with that and refund their credit card theft that I never authorized.

I think a lot of this kind of thing happens *because* of tech. It's
become
easy to just take the money and then avoid customers. I saw an article
recently about how common it is now to prevent people quitting
accounts. The Feds are cracking down on Adobe, for instance. Adobe have
made it nearly impossible to quit a Photoshop rental, then charge a steep
penalty for quitting early.

https://consumer.ftc.gov/consumer-alerts/2024/05/adobe-used-hidden-fee-trap-people-paying-subscription-plans-ftc-says

I can see how they could find it hard to resist these scams. There's
often
no obvious crime or misbehavior. They can always just say, "Oh, my... Did we
forget to put a cancel button on the webpage? I'll get right on it."

* A system of removing duplication and interdependence of data by
structuring all data that is mutually dependent in separate tables and
using indexes as cross-links between related data.
To simplify things too much in the pursuit of an understandable example,
I am a 'Customer', so my data  -  email and postal addresses, age, etc
-  should be kept as one entry in a table of 'Customers'.  Likewise
details of each 'Contract' I have with Three UK each should be a
separate table entry in a table of 'Contracts', each of which contains
an index or link back to my relevant 'Customer' data in the 'Customers'
table.  Clearly, from their explanation above, my 'Customer' data is
being held in the same table as my 'Contract' data, so their data cannot
be in 3NF, a very basic error of data programming.
Yet again I cry: "Just *WHO* programs this shit?"

[Adam H. Kerman]

This crosspost is stupid and I'm cutting it back. We aren't discussing
mobile telephony. Stop playing crossposting games. Just because the
thread drifted doesn't mean you add an irrelevant newsgroup to the
crosspost. That's not nice.

Post by Newyana2
. . .
I ran into this kind of thing recently with a VOIP phone plan from
AxVoice.
The hardware failed after a year. I couldn't get a sensible response from
them. no phone number. Their only responses would come between 5 and
7 PM the day after I wrote to them. It might have been automated software.
Or it might be some kid in India wo works 2 hours per day answering email.
I gave up and signed with Vonage. They has a phone number. Very different
experience. AxVoice demanded that I send back all the free hardware and
debited my cerdit card in the meantime. I carefully packed up the broken
device and the used ethernet cable. To their credit, AxVoice did at least
deal with that and refund their credit card theft that I never authorized.

Uh, wow. Don't do that. With VoIP, you buy your own equipment that does
SIP and you DON'T use a VoIP service provider that requires proprietary
hardward and communications protocols. You need ATAs to do SIP with your
old telephone sets, which are very inexpensive, or new telephone sets
with SIP built in, which are more expensive.

Thanks to number portability, you can keep the same number from one
provider to the next. A VoIP provider is an intermediary between the
subscriber and the CLEC. If you obtain a new telephone number, that
comes from the CLEC, often a company called Bandwidth that owns fiber
lines.

My ATAs are 200 series from OBi. I use two of them. The Web interface
gives access to hundreds of options, but mainly, I followed well-written
guidance from the VoIP provider. I also have a Grandstream conference
phone that offers SIP on six lines. I've got 9 lines all together. If I
need a phone number for public contact, I just get another one.

The VoIP provider is inexpensive. I prepay $25 several times a year and
pay a fraction of a cent per minute, incoming and outgoing. It's VoIP.ms
based in Montreal. Subscriber service is excellent.

The previous administrator had prepaid magicJack for five years as
that's what he had used at home. magicJack is proprietary VoIP, doesn't
do SIP. The subscriber needs their device. Service was lousy and the
price was higher than if one shopped around. They did not follow through
on inbound porting (although the previous administrator wasn't
persistent enough) and we lost the phone number for a few years, using
the "temporary" phone number they provided.

Before the prepaid period expired, I already knew we weren't going to
renew. The old phone number from the ILEC had not been given to a new
subscriber (likely deliberate as there's no shortage of phone numbers these
days) and I paid to have it reactivated, then ported it out to VoIP.ms.

It was major hassle to port the "temporary" phone number out from
magicJack as they weren't following through. After porting out, they
failed to mark the number unavailable for assignment in their system and
gave it to a new subscriber, which meant he couldn't receive any inbound
calls (except within magicJack's network). It took contacting FCC's
consumer affairs bureau multiple times to reach the one woman at
magicJack properly trained in all necessary procedures.

The whole point of SIP and number portability is the telephone
subscriber is no longer tied to any provider. Buy your own equipment.
Make sure it's generic SIP and subscribe to a service that offers
generic SIP. Port your phone numbers -- at least the number you use for
public contact -- from one provider to the next.

Post by Newyana2
I think a lot of this kind of thing happens *because* of tech. It's become
easy to just take the money and then avoid customers.

No. It's because consumers put up with shit instead of demanding service
and making sure to take their business to companies that provide the
service that they need. The consumer has all the power in the
transaction and has to be willing to take his business elsewhere.

Post by Newyana2
. . .

[k***@nowhere.com]

On Sun, 4 Aug 2024 17:49:09 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"

Post by Adam H. Kerman
This crosspost is stupid and I'm cutting it back. We aren't discussing
mobile telephony. Stop playing crossposting games. Just because the
thread drifted doesn't mean you add an irrelevant newsgroup to the
crosspost. That's not nice.

Post by Newyana2
. . .
I ran into this kind of thing recently with a VOIP phone plan from
AxVoice.

DEL

Post by Adam H. Kerman
No. It's because consumers put up with shit instead of demanding service
and making sure to take their business to companies that provide the
service that they need.

Not only am I simple minded in regard to backward stuff like Win 7,
FFx 115.13 - last Win 7 version - but I use a simple old style flip
phone. All I need my phone to do is to make phone calls. (Anybody
else remember what a "phone call" is wherein you actually *speak* to
someone?)

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by k***@nowhere.com

. . .

Not only am I simple minded in regard to backward stuff like Win 7,
FFx 115.13 - last Win 7 version - but I use a simple old style flip
phone. All I need my phone to do is to make phone calls. (Anybody
else remember what a "phone call" is wherein you actually *speak* to
someone?)

I had a Motorola flip phone that could be used on all four GSM network
frequencies world wide, in case I ever did any travelling. It was a
great phone.

Alas, I washed it in the laundry machine. It did not survive.

I reluctantly got a smart phone.

[k***@nowhere.com]

On Sun, 4 Aug 2024 18:39:47 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by k***@nowhere.com

. . .

Not only am I simple minded in regard to backward stuff like Win 7,
FFx 115.13 - last Win 7 version - but I use a simple old style flip
phone. All I need my phone to do is to make phone calls. (Anybody
else remember what a "phone call" is wherein you actually *speak* to
someone?)

I had a Motorola flip phone that could be used on all four GSM network
frequencies world wide, in case I ever did any travelling. It was a
great phone.
Alas, I washed it in the laundry machine. It did not survive.
I reluctantly got a smart phone.

What happened to me was that Verizon moved up to 5G, whatever the hell
that is, and disconnected my fine old flip jobber that had worked for
years. Those B******s sent me an E Talk replacement p.o.c. that had to
be a return. I'm not even begin to tell you all the futzin' problems
the damn thing has. I'm looking for another better quality flip that
Verizon can plug into their system.

[Mark Lloyd]

On Sun, 4 Aug 2024 18:39:47 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman wrote:


[snip]

Post by Adam H. Kerman
I had a Motorola flip phone that could be used on all four GSM network
frequencies world wide, in case I ever did any travelling. It was a
great phone.
Alas, I washed it in the laundry machine. It did not survive.
I reluctantly got a smart phone.

I have a sign up above my washing machine, saying "Where is your cell
phone?".

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by Mark Lloyd
[snip]

Post by Adam H. Kerman
I had a Motorola flip phone that could be used on all four GSM network
frequencies world wide, in case I ever did any travelling. It was a
great phone.
Alas, I washed it in the laundry machine. It did not survive.
I reluctantly got a smart phone.

I have a sign up above my washing machine, saying "Where is your cell
phone?".

Hehehehehe

[Java Jive]

Post by Adam H. Kerman
This crosspost is stupid and I'm cutting it back. We aren't discussing
mobile telephony. Stop playing crossposting games. Just because the
thread drifted doesn't mean you add an irrelevant newsgroup to the
crosspost. That's not nice.

Except that the particular ng was relevant to the particular example I
gave, which I had previously posted about in that same ng.

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Newyana2
. . .
I ran into this kind of thing recently with a VOIP phone plan from
AxVoice.
The hardware failed after a year. I couldn't get a sensible response from
them. no phone number. Their only responses would come between 5 and
7 PM the day after I wrote to them. It might have been automated software.
Or it might be some kid in India wo works 2 hours per day answering email.
I gave up and signed with Vonage. They has a phone number. Very different
experience. AxVoice demanded that I send back all the free hardware and
debited my cerdit card in the meantime. I carefully packed up the broken
device and the used ethernet cable. To their credit, AxVoice did at least
deal with that and refund their credit card theft that I never authorized.

[snip smartarse tale]

So who now is talking about telephony in a Firefox and a Windows ng?

What your 'rules' seem to boil down to is this: your smartarse stories
are always On Topic, those of others' are not.

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Newyana2
I think a lot of this kind of thing happens *because* of tech. It's become
easy to just take the money and then avoid customers.

No. It's because consumers put up with shit instead of demanding service
and making sure to take their business to companies that provide the
service that they need. The consumer has all the power in the
transaction and has to be willing to take his business elsewhere.

Yes but also no ... people get locked in by various mechanisms, for
example losing your email address if you change ISPs. Not everyone has
the knowledge to circumvent such locking-in mechanisms.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by Java Jive

Post by Adam H. Kerman
This crosspost is stupid and I'm cutting it back. We aren't discussing
mobile telephony. Stop playing crossposting games. Just because the
thread drifted doesn't mean you add an irrelevant newsgroup to the
crosspost. That's not nice.

Except that the particular ng was relevant to the particular example I
gave, which I had previously posted about in that same ng.

We're just yakking. Topic drift is a Usenet feature. It doesn't require
adding a newsgroup to the crosspost.

Post by Java Jive

Post by Adam H. Kerman

. . .

[snip smartarse tale]

So who now is talking about telephony in a Firefox and a Windows ng?

I wasn't discussing telephony. It was an unimportant story that an
electronic device failed when it went through a laundry cycle.

Again: We were just yakking. Topic drift is a Usenet feature.

Post by Java Jive
What your 'rules' seem to boil down to is this: your smartarse stories
are always On Topic, those of others' are not.

Your story wasn't on topic and didn't require adding another group to
the crosspost. I don't need to expand the crosspost to a group for those
with reading comprehension problems.

Post by Java Jive

Post by Adam H. Kerman

. . .

[Java Jive]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Java Jive

Post by Adam H. Kerman
This crosspost is stupid and I'm cutting it back. We aren't discussing
mobile telephony. Stop playing crossposting games. Just because the
thread drifted doesn't mean you add an irrelevant newsgroup to the
crosspost. That's not nice.

Except that the particular ng was relevant to the particular example I
gave, which I had previously posted about in that same ng.

We're just yakking.

Again, speak for yourself, not me.

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Topic drift is a Usenet feature. It doesn't require
adding a newsgroup to the crosspost.

Except that in this case it was both relevant to that ng and brought it
up-to-date on the end of that particular story. If you don't like it,
just don't reply and stay out of the subthread.

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Java Jive
So who now is talking about telephony in a Firefox and a Windows ng?

I wasn't discussing telephony. It was an unimportant story that an
electronic device failed when it went through a laundry cycle.

Don't lie, it was a long OT tale all about telephony.

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Again: We were just yakking. Topic drift is a Usenet feature.

So sometimes is cross-posting, so if you don't like it, just don't reply
and stay out of the subthread.

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Java Jive
What your 'rules' seem to boil down to is this: your smartarse stories
are always On Topic, those of others' are not.

Your story wasn't on topic and didn't require adding another group to
the crosspost. I don't need to expand the crosspost to a group for those
with reading comprehension problems.

Again, speak only for yourself, don't state unrealistic assumptions
about others which reveal more about your mental shortcomings than it
does about others.

[Java Jive]

Post by Java Jive

   Another factor that seems to be widely underestimated is that most
programmers these days are cellphone addicts. They don't often use
computers. That's why websites and browsers often have "hamburger
menus", for example. It's a terrible design on a desktop, but the only
design that works well on cellphones where only one window can show
at a time. The programmers are all using browsers on cellphones,
so they decide to remove desktop menus and put hamburger icons
everywhere. There seems to be no design and usability staff.

Another factor that seems to be widely underestimated is that most of
those programmers know SFA, because they've never been trained properly,
about how to design formally anything with usability, let alone
accessibility in mind.

And here's a classic example from Ionos, another firm notorious in this
household for breaking their website when previously it had been
functioning entirely correctly. This contains all the faults we both,
and others, have mentioned:
:-( Designed for smartphone;
:-( Almost certainly only tested on a smartphone;
:-( Page won't even load (!) in latest version of FF

www.macfh.co.uk/Temp/Ionos_Latest_FU.jpg

Just HTF am I supposed to add ***@yu-estate.co.jp (who are pretending
to be Evri)_ to my Blocked Senders list using this webpage? I can't
change the dimensions of the settings popup at all! The only way I
could manage it was on my tablet.

[Jörg Lorenz]

Post by k***@nowhere.com

Post by Newyana2

Post by k***@nowhere.com
No damn reason for them taking
the Reload off of the Right click bit.

It's on my context menu, as the circling arrow icon.

That is it! Why in the hell do they play these ridiculous games
transforming simple and often used menu items? That's hardly
"progress". It's a pain in the arse.

Nonsense. *You* are not able to learn anything new anymore.
You are stuck in the past.

[Java Jive]

Post by Jörg Lorenz

That is it!  Why in  the hell do they play these ridiculous games
transforming simple and often used menu items?  That's hardly
"progress".  It's a pain in the arse.

Nonsense. *You* are not able to learn anything new anymore.
You are stuck in the past.

Nonsense, *You* are not seeing the point here! To do so, imagine the
bloodbath that would result on our roads if the controls of a car were
changed as often and as pointlessly as the controls of a computer
operating system or program!

[Jörg Lorenz]

Post by Java Jive

Post by Jörg Lorenz

That is it!  Why in  the hell do they play these ridiculous games
transforming simple and often used menu items?  That's hardly
"progress".  It's a pain in the arse.

Nonsense. *You* are not able to learn anything new anymore.
You are stuck in the past.

Nonsense, *You* are not seeing the point here! To do so, imagine the
bloodbath that would result on our roads if the controls of a car were
changed as often and as pointlessly as the controls of a computer
operating system or program!

Bullshit: You obviously did not switch from a traditional car to one of
these smartcars like a Tesla or others. Nothing is like it was. I did
this year and I tell you that you have absolutely no clue. You tripped
yourself.

[Java Jive]

Post by Jörg Lorenz

Post by Jörg Lorenz

That is it!  Why in  the hell do they play these ridiculous games
transforming simple and often used menu items?  That's hardly
"progress".  It's a pain in the arse.

Nonsense. *You* are not able to learn anything new anymore.
You are stuck in the past.

Nonsense, *You* are not seeing the point here!  To do so, imagine the
bloodbath that would result on our roads if the controls of a car were
changed as often and as pointlessly as the controls of a computer
operating system or program!

Bullshit: You obviously did not switch from a traditional car to one of
these smartcars like a Tesla or others. Nothing is like it was. I did
this year and I tell you that you have absolutely no clue. You tripped
yourself.

No, everything you've said is bullshit. Those are merely incidental
details, I'm betting that the steering wheel, the clutch, brake, and
accelerator pedals, the indicators, and windscreen wiper controls were
all in the same place, though possibly the latter may be on different
side of the steering column, which is quite bad enough.

Now imagine what would happen if, suddenly and arbitrarily at the whim
of some engineer at the car factory, the brake pedal was replaced by a
lever on the dashboard, the clutch pedal by a lever under the driver's
legs, and the steering wheel replaced by a tiller arrangement! Or,
perhaps more likely in actual fact, the entirety of them were replaced
by a games console control, because some engineer in the car
manufacturer thought it would be 'cool' to control a car like it were in
a racing game? THOSE are the driving equivalent of the pointless
changes that are commonly made to OSs & programs. The point I'm trying
to make is that one programmer's 'cool' idea is just a PITA to many,
perhaps even most, of the people who will actually have to use it,
because it fucks up all the things that they've been doing through,
originally learned but now entirely subconscious, habit.

[Jörg Lorenz]

Post by Java Jive

Post by Jörg Lorenz

That is it!  Why in  the hell do they play these ridiculous games
transforming simple and often used menu items?  That's hardly
"progress".  It's a pain in the arse.

Nonsense. *You* are not able to learn anything new anymore.
You are stuck in the past.

Nonsense, *You* are not seeing the point here! To do so, imagine the
bloodbath that would result on our roads if the controls of a car were
changed as often and as pointlessly as the controls of a computer
operating system or program!

... and btw our super flexible friend kelly is still using the latest in
technology: Windows 7. Out of support for over then years. My goodness!

This thread is a geriatric meltdown! *SCNR*

[Java Jive]

Post by Jörg Lorenz

Post by Jörg Lorenz

That is it!  Why in  the hell do they play these ridiculous games
transforming simple and often used menu items?  That's hardly
"progress".  It's a pain in the arse.

Nonsense. *You* are not able to learn anything new anymore.
You are stuck in the past.

Nonsense, *You* are not seeing the point here!  To do so, imagine the
bloodbath that would result on our roads if the controls of a car were
changed as often and as pointlessly as the controls of a computer
operating system or program!

... and btw our super flexible friend kelly is still using the latest in
technology: Windows 7. Out of support for over then years. My goodness!

As am I! Why? Because it's so much easier to use than later versions
of Windows, is still receiving security updates, and doesn't bring my PC
to its knees.

Post by Jörg Lorenz
This thread is a geriatric meltdown! *SCNR*

Speak for yourself.

[Jörg Lorenz]

Post by Java Jive

Post by Jörg Lorenz
... and btw our super flexible friend kelly is still using the latest in
technology: Windows 7. Out of support for over then years. My goodness!

As am I! Why? Because it's so much easier to use than later versions
of Windows, is still receiving security updates, and doesn't bring my PC
to its knees.

Bullshit. You do not get security updates for Windows 7 for over
10years. It is antisocial to log into the internet with such insecure crap.

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Sun, 4 Aug 2024 16:29:02 +0200

Post by Jörg Lorenz

Post by Java Jive

Post by Jörg Lorenz
... and btw our super flexible friend kelly is still using the latest in
technology: Windows 7. Out of support for over then years. My goodness!

As am I! Why? Because it's so much easier to use than later versions
of Windows, is still receiving security updates, and doesn't bring my PC
to its knees.

Bullshit. You do not get security updates for Windows 7 for over
10years. It is antisocial to log into the internet with such insecure crap.

Good job you didn't xpost this to an XP NG! - but there's no recent
firefox for XP - MyPal is just about the only recentish browser.

[Jörg Lorenz]

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Sun, 4 Aug 2024 16:29:02 +0200

Post by Jörg Lorenz

Post by Java Jive

Post by Jörg Lorenz
... and btw our super flexible friend kelly is still using the latest in
technology: Windows 7. Out of support for over then years. My goodness!

As am I! Why? Because it's so much easier to use than later versions
of Windows, is still receiving security updates, and doesn't bring my PC
to its knees.

Bullshit. You do not get security updates for Windows 7 for over
10years. It is antisocial to log into the internet with such insecure crap.

Good job you didn't xpost this to an XP NG! - but there's no recent
firefox for XP - MyPal is just about the only recentish browser.

The problem being the x-posting to this Windows-group down in the darkness.

Windows XP- to Windows 8.1-users or better Windows-users in general are
brain dead antisocial Trolls and to a very large part they are
responsible for the security issues in the digital world.

[k***@nowhere.com]

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Sun, 4 Aug 2024 16:29:02 +0200

Post by Jörg Lorenz

Post by Java Jive

Post by Jörg Lorenz
... and btw our super flexible friend kelly is still using the latest in
technology: Windows 7. Out of support for over then years. My goodness!

As am I! Why? Because it's so much easier to use than later versions
of Windows, is still receiving security updates, and doesn't bring my PC
to its knees.

Bullshit. You do not get security updates for Windows 7 for over
10years. It is antisocial to log into the internet with such insecure crap.

Good job you didn't xpost this to an XP NG! - but there's no recent
firefox for XP - MyPal is just about the only recentish browser.

I use FFx 115.13.0 esr for Windows 7 Ultimate.

I use MyPal for my XP machine.

The above combo is all need for what I do online. I don't need
updated crapola for my simple needs. As I posted earlier, I'm well
protected by the security options I'm using.

[Java Jive]

Post by Jörg Lorenz

Post by Java Jive

Post by Jörg Lorenz
... and btw our super flexible friend kelly is still using the latest in
technology: Windows 7. Out of support for over then years. My goodness!

As am I! Why? Because it's so much easier to use than later versions
of Windows, is still receiving security updates, and doesn't bring my PC
to its knees.

Bullshit. You do not get security updates for Windows 7 for over
10years. It is antisocial to log into the internet with such insecure crap.

WRONG! Had some yesterday on both 64-bit & 32-bit builds.

[Jörg Lorenz]

Post by Java Jive

Post by Jörg Lorenz

Post by Java Jive

Post by Jörg Lorenz
... and btw our super flexible friend kelly is still using the latest in
technology: Windows 7. Out of support for over then years. My goodness!

As am I! Why? Because it's so much easier to use than later versions
of Windows, is still receiving security updates, and doesn't bring my PC
to its knees.

Bullshit. You do not get security updates for Windows 7 for over
10years. It is antisocial to log into the internet with such insecure crap.

WRONG! Had some yesterday on both 64-bit & 32-bit builds.

That is a blunt lie.
Microsoft does not distribute new patches for Win 7.

[Java Jive]

Post by Jörg Lorenz

Post by Jörg Lorenz

Post by Jörg Lorenz
... and btw our super flexible friend kelly is still using the latest in
technology: Windows 7. Out of support for over then years. My goodness!

As am I!  Why?  Because it's so much easier to use than later versions
of Windows, is still receiving security updates, and doesn't bring my PC
to its knees.

Bullshit. You do not get security updates for Windows 7 for over
10years. It is antisocial to log into the internet with such insecure crap.

WRONG!  Had some yesterday on both 64-bit & 32-bit builds.

That is a blunt lie.
Microsoft does not distribute new patches for Win 7.

Now you've realised that you are losing this argument and so are trying
to move the goalposts - that is *NOT* what I said, I said I was still
receiving security updates, and I am.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by Java Jive

Post by Jörg Lorenz

Post by Jörg Lorenz

That is it!  Why in  the hell do they play these ridiculous games
transforming simple and often used menu items?  That's hardly
"progress".  It's a pain in the arse.

Nonsense. *You* are not able to learn anything new anymore.
You are stuck in the past.

Nonsense, *You* are not seeing the point here!  To do so, imagine the
bloodbath that would result on our roads if the controls of a car were
changed as often and as pointlessly as the controls of a computer
operating system or program!

... and btw our super flexible friend kelly is still using the latest in
technology: Windows 7. Out of support for over then years. My goodness!

As am I! Why? Because it's so much easier to use than later versions
of Windows, is still receiving security updates, and doesn't bring my PC
to its knees.

Post by Jörg Lorenz
This thread is a geriatric meltdown! *SCNR*

Speak for yourself.

Dude! You are no spring chicken. Kids today ain't using Usenet, the Old
Farts network. Where did I leave my walker?

[Java Jive]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Java Jive

Post by Jörg Lorenz

Post by Jörg Lorenz

That is it!  Why in  the hell do they play these ridiculous games
transforming simple and often used menu items?  That's hardly
"progress".  It's a pain in the arse.

Nonsense. *You* are not able to learn anything new anymore.
You are stuck in the past.

Nonsense, *You* are not seeing the point here!  To do so, imagine the
bloodbath that would result on our roads if the controls of a car were
changed as often and as pointlessly as the controls of a computer
operating system or program!

... and btw our super flexible friend kelly is still using the latest in
technology: Windows 7. Out of support for over then years. My goodness!

As am I! Why? Because it's so much easier to use than later versions
of Windows, is still receiving security updates, and doesn't bring my PC
to its knees.

Post by Jörg Lorenz
This thread is a geriatric meltdown! *SCNR*

Speak for yourself.

Dude! You are no spring chicken. Kids today ain't using Usenet, the Old
Farts network. Where did I leave my walker?

Again, speak for yourself.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by Java Jive

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Java Jive

Post by Jörg Lorenz

Post by Jörg Lorenz

That is it!  Why in  the hell do they play these ridiculous games
transforming simple and often used menu items?  That's hardly
"progress".  It's a pain in the arse.

Nonsense. *You* are not able to learn anything new anymore.
You are stuck in the past.

Nonsense, *You* are not seeing the point here!  To do so, imagine the
bloodbath that would result on our roads if the controls of a car were
changed as often and as pointlessly as the controls of a computer
operating system or program!

... and btw our super flexible friend kelly is still using the latest in
technology: Windows 7. Out of support for over then years. My goodness!

As am I! Why? Because it's so much easier to use than later versions
of Windows, is still receiving security updates, and doesn't bring my PC
to its knees.

Post by Jörg Lorenz
This thread is a geriatric meltdown! *SCNR*

Speak for yourself.

Dude! You are no spring chicken. Kids today ain't using Usenet, the Old
Farts network. Where did I leave my walker?

Again, speak for yourself.

If you are pretending to be a 20 year old, you are fooling no one but
yourself.

[Java Jive]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Java Jive

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Java Jive

Post by Jörg Lorenz

Post by Jörg Lorenz

That is it!  Why in  the hell do they play these ridiculous games
transforming simple and often used menu items?  That's hardly
"progress".  It's a pain in the arse.

Nonsense. *You* are not able to learn anything new anymore.
You are stuck in the past.

Nonsense, *You* are not seeing the point here!  To do so, imagine the
bloodbath that would result on our roads if the controls of a car were
changed as often and as pointlessly as the controls of a computer
operating system or program!

... and btw our super flexible friend kelly is still using the latest in
technology: Windows 7. Out of support for over then years. My goodness!

As am I! Why? Because it's so much easier to use than later versions
of Windows, is still receiving security updates, and doesn't bring my PC
to its knees.

Post by Jörg Lorenz
This thread is a geriatric meltdown! *SCNR*

Speak for yourself.

Dude! You are no spring chicken. Kids today ain't using Usenet, the Old
Farts network. Where did I leave my walker?

Again, speak for yourself.

If you are pretending to be a 20 year old, you are fooling no one but
yourself.

I'm not pretending to be anyone in particular, I'm just advising you to
stop trying to speak for me and others because we don't need or want you
to, and to speak only for yourself.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by Java Jive

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Java Jive

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Java Jive

Post by Jörg Lorenz

Post by Jörg Lorenz

That is it!  Why in  the hell do they play these ridiculous games
transforming simple and often used menu items?  That's hardly
"progress".  It's a pain in the arse.

Nonsense. *You* are not able to learn anything new anymore.
You are stuck in the past.

Nonsense, *You* are not seeing the point here!  To do so, imagine the
bloodbath that would result on our roads if the controls of a car were
changed as often and as pointlessly as the controls of a computer
operating system or program!

... and btw our super flexible friend kelly is still using the latest in
technology: Windows 7. Out of support for over then years. My goodness!

As am I! Why? Because it's so much easier to use than later versions
of Windows, is still receiving security updates, and doesn't bring my PC
to its knees.

Post by Jörg Lorenz
This thread is a geriatric meltdown! *SCNR*

Speak for yourself.

Dude! You are no spring chicken. Kids today ain't using Usenet, the Old
Farts network. Where did I leave my walker?

Again, speak for yourself.

If you are pretending to be a 20 year old, you are fooling no one but
yourself.

I'm not pretending to be anyone in particular, I'm just advising you to
stop trying to speak for me and others because we don't need or want you
to, and to speak only for yourself.

You have absolutely no sense of humor. The geriatric meltdown comment
amusing. That you couldn't appreciate it is still more evidence of your
old fartedness.

[Java Jive]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Java Jive
I'm not pretending to be anyone in particular, I'm just advising you to
stop trying to speak for me and others because we don't need or want you
to, and to speak only for yourself.

You have absolutely no sense of humor. The geriatric meltdown comment
amusing. That you couldn't appreciate it is still more evidence of your
old fartedness.

You have absolutely no sense of common civility and politeness. Enjoy
insulting the other idiots in my kill-file, I've got better things to do
than listen to you.

Plonk!

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by Java Jive

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Java Jive
I'm not pretending to be anyone in particular, I'm just advising you to
stop trying to speak for me and others because we don't need or want you
to, and to speak only for yourself.

You have absolutely no sense of humor. The geriatric meltdown comment
amusing. That you couldn't appreciate it is still more evidence of your
old fartedness.

You have absolutely no sense of common civility and politeness. Enjoy
insulting the other idiots in my kill-file, I've got better things to do
than listen to you.
Plonk!

Oh my.

[k***@nowhere.com]

Post by Java Jive

Post by Jörg Lorenz

That is it!  Why in  the hell do they play these ridiculous games
transforming simple and often used menu items?  That's hardly
"progress".  It's a pain in the arse.

Nonsense. *You* are not able to learn anything new anymore.
You are stuck in the past.

Nonsense, *You* are not seeing the point here! To do so, imagine the
bloodbath that would result on our roads if the controls of a car were
changed as often and as pointlessly as the controls of a computer
operating system or program!

Exactly!

Constantly changing the menu for a given software is ridiculous. The
average comp user is not here for constant learning. That's the
requirement for techs and programmers. Users just want to use, and
that usage should be aimed for the lowest denominator of users.

Remember when autos went from shifting gears to full
auto? Simple is always more useful than complex.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by k***@nowhere.com
. . .
Remember when autos went from shifting gears to full
auto? Simple is always more useful than complex.

No, because even when I was a kid, manual transmission was an option
on fewer and fewer vehicles and had already become the less popular
preference. I did not have the option to learn to drive a car with a
manual transmission, although a friend let me drive his manual car with
the shift on the steering column once. I did learn to drive a school bus
with a manual transmission.

However, given how rampant vehicle theft is, the joke is to buy a car
with a manual transmission to discourage your typical car thief.