Discussion:
What free Android emulator do YOU use on Windows for running F-Droid APKs?
(too old to reply)
Joe Scotch
2018-01-01 20:11:46 UTC
Permalink
What free Android emulator do *YOU* use on Windows for running F-Droid APKs?

In another thread, we found that nobody has ported a useful Android
open-source tool to Windows, where Andy Burns <***@andyburns.uk>
suggested that Android emulation on Windows might work.
Is there an ad-free YouTube clone for Windows like NewPipe is for Android?
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/fLmXv99riaY

As many of us are ancient octogenarians, we've already tried almost every
emulator that ever existed by now - so - I simply ask one question here of
the people who *ALREADY* use Android emulation on Windows.

If you don't already use Android emulation, you probably won't be able to
answer the question I don't think.

However ...

If you do use Android emulation on Windows, what free emulator do you
recommend for running an F-Droid open-source tool such as New Pipe is?
https://f-droid.org/packages/org.schabi.newpipe/

(I will post the results of a RTFM in a followup but the question is not
what free emulators "exist" nor which are in the "top 10" lists - but which
free emulator *you* use that you like - and why).

The topic is:
What free Android emulator do *YOU* use on Windows for running F-Droid APKs?
Joe Scotch
2018-01-01 20:17:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
(I will post the results of a RTFM in a followup but the question is not
what free emulators "exist" nor which are in the "top 10" lists - but which
free emulator *you* use that you like - and why).
What free Android emulator do *YOU* use on Windows for running F-Droid APKs?
This is just the result of a Google search, which shows, as always, that
there is no consensus as to what free emulator is best for running F-Droid
APKs such as New Pipe.

If nobody uses Android emulation on Windows, then this thread will be
(thankfully) short in that I will likely (almost blindly) choose one of the
emulators listed below.

A very quick skim seems to show Nox as a good starting point, where, as
always, the immense cost of freeware is in all the work finding the good
ones.

Top 7 Free Android Emulators for PC Windows 7/8/8.1/10 | Run Android apps
on Computer PC/Windows 7/8.1/10
http://techapple.net/2014/12/top-7-free-android-emulators-windows-788-110-pccomputer-run-android-appsgames-windows-78-110/

1. Nox App Player
http://digitalmid.com/nox_setup_v5.0.0.1_full.exe
2. BlueStacks
https://goo.gl/boz823
3. KO Player
http://down1.koplayer.com/Emulator/nichole/koplayer-1.4.1052-co020.exe
4. Andyroid Andy OS
https://goo.gl/AktCGi
5. Droid4X
http://droid4x.com
6. Windroy - The Android emulator with a Windows Kernel!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B728YkPxkCL8Wlh5dGdiVXdIS0k/edit?usp=sharing
7. GenyMotion
https://www.genymotion.com

8 Best Android Emulators for Windows 10 to Run Android Games & Apps
http://windowsreport.com/best-android-emulators-windows-10/

1. Andy
http://www.andyroid.net/test/getandy.php?partner=winreport
2. Droid4X
http://www.droid4x.com/
3. BlueStacks
http://www.bluestacks.com/
4. AMIDuOS
http://www.amiduos.com/
5. Windroy
http://windroy.en.softonic.com/
6. Genymotion
https://www.genymotion.com/#!/
7. Nox
http://en.bignox.com/
8. Xamarin Android Player
https://xamarin-android-player.s3.amazonaws.com/installer/Windows/Xamarin%20Android%20Player%20x64.exe

7 Best Android Emulators for Windows You Can Use
https://beebom.com/best-android-emulators-windows/

1. Remix OS Player
http://cn.jide.com/remixos-player#download
2. MEmu
http://www.memuplay.com/
3. Nox Player
https://www.bignox.com/#p1
4. BlueStacks
http://www.bluestacks.com/#gref
5. AMIDuOS
http://www.amiduos.com/ (30-day trial)
6. LeapDroid
https://leapdroid.en.softonic.com/
7. Genymotion
https://www.genymotion.com/
8. AndyOS (the author couldn't get this to work on his machine)
http://www.andyroid.net/
9. KoPlayer (the author couldn't get this to work on his machine)
http://www.koplayer.com/
10. Droid4X (the author couldn't get this to work on his machine)
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Mobile-Phone-Tools/Others/Droid4X.shtml
11. Android Studio (official Android emulator bundled with the dev env)
https://developer.android.com/studio/index.html

12+- Best Android Emulators For Windows PC & Mac 2018
http://www.androidcrush.com/best-android-emulator-for-pc-windows/

1. Nox App Player
https://www.bignox.com/
2. Remix OS Player
http://cn.jide.com/remixos-player#download
3. BlueStacks
http://www.bluestacks.com/
4. GenyMotion
https://www.genymotion.com/
5. MEmu
http://www.memuplay.com/download.php?file_name=Memu-Setup&from=home_en
6. Andyroid
http://filehippo.com/download_andy/
7. Ko Player
http://www.koplayer.com/
8. Youwave
https://youwave.com/download/
9. VirtualBox with Android ISO
https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads
http://www.android-x86.org/download
10. Android Studio+IBk-s Emulator
https://developer.android.com/studio/index.html
11. Xamarin Android Player
https://developer.xamarin.com/releases/android/android-player/
12. LeapDroid
(no longer available)

As always, all my threads are opened to advance our immense combined tribal
knowledge.

In summary, the topic of this thread is:
What free Android emulator do *YOU* use on Windows for running F-Droid APKs?
Ralph Fox
2018-01-01 21:03:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
If nobody uses Android emulation on Windows, then this thread will be
(thankfully) short in that I will likely (almost blindly) choose one of the
emulators listed below.
I run Android-x86 inside VMware Player on Windows.

Android-x86 http://www.android-x86.org/ or https://www.osboxes.org/android-x86/

I used the ISOs from android-x86.org, rather than the VM image from osboxes.org.


I am not using any APKs from F-Droid, so I can't advise on F-Droid compatibility.
Other APKs have worked fine.
--
Kind regards
Ralph

Simple Simon met a pieman, going to the fair;
Says Simple Simon to the pieman, "Let me taste your ware."
Says the pieman to Simple Simon, "Show me first your penny";
Says Simple Simon to the pieman, "Indeed I have not any."
Joe Scotch
2018-01-01 21:29:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ralph Fox
I run Android-x86 inside VMware Player on Windows.
Android-x86 http://www.android-x86.org/ or https://www.osboxes.org/android-x86/
I used the ISOs from android-x86.org, rather than the VM image from osboxes.org.
I am not using any APKs from F-Droid, so I can't advise on F-Droid compatibility.
Other APKs have worked fine.
Thanks for this suggestion, borne of your experience, which I appreciate.

I don't think the APK source matters all that much - but I listed it
because that F-Droid New Pipe APK is what's going to be the testcase.

Since I am running VirtualBox already, I would likely use the Android ISO
you suggest with VirtualBox (because that would be more efficient for me).
https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads
http://www.android-x86.org/download

The web "android-x86.org" web page is confusing because it lists two
different links for the latest 32-bit and 64-bit ISO but each page seems to
have similarly 32-bit and 64-bit links so it's hard to tell which one to
use for a 64-bit Windows 10 test machine.

android-x86.org 32-bit link (but it has 64-bit ISOs):
https://www.fosshub.com/Android-x86.html/android-x86-6.0-r3.iso
android-x86.org 64-bit link (but it has 32-bit ISOs):
https://www.fosshub.com/Android-x86.html/android-x86_64-6.0-r3.iso

Other than the confusing array of ISOs to choose from, this seems like a
nice way to run Android APKs on Windows.

Is this the basic process?

1. Install & configure a virtual machine on the host OS
2. Download & save the Android ISO as the guest OS
3. Boot the Android ISO guest OS inside that virtual machine
4. Run the desired Android software inside that guest OS

If it's that simple, then that is likely the best way to go.
But if it's that simple - why do so many Android emulators even exist?
Joe Scotch
2018-01-01 22:41:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
Is this the basic process?
1. Install & configure a virtual machine on the host OS
2. Download & save the Android ISO as the guest OS
3. Boot the Android ISO guest OS inside that virtual machine
4. Run the desired Android software inside that guest OS
If it's that simple, then that is likely the best way to go.
But if it's that simple - why do so many Android emulators even exist?
Here's what I tried first, but Windows 10 hung when I tried it.

1. Download, install & configure VirtualBox (mine was already configured).
a. Find the latest stable version:
http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/LATEST-STABLE.TXT
(5.1.30)
http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/5.1.30/
b. Download the latest stable ISO:
http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/5.1.30/VirtualBox-5.1.30-118389-Win.exe
c. Download the latest stable guest additions:
http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/5.1.30/VBoxGuestAdditions_5.1.30.iso

2. Download the latest Android X86 32-bit ISO file (usually less than 1GB)
https://www.fosshub.com/Android-x86.html/android-x86-7.1-rc2.iso

3. Setting up the VirtualBox VM may be tricky - here's what I tried:
Name: Android32b
Type: Other
Version: Other/Unknown
Memory size: 64MB
Create a virtual hard disk now.
VDI (VirtualBox Disk Image)
Dynamically allocated
Virtual hard disk size: 2.00GB
Start
Select startup disk: android-x86-7.1-rc2.iso (681.00MB)
Start
Selection choice:
Live CD - Run Android-X86 without installation <== I chose this option
Live CD - VESA mode
Live CD - Debug mode
Installation - Install Android-X86 to harddisk

The Windows-10 64-bit machine hung.
I had to kill VirtualBox to get my Windows mouse back.

Everything else was fine on Windows when I killed VirtualBox.
So, the Android ISO didn't work on the first pass.
Paul
2018-01-01 23:54:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
Post by Joe Scotch
Is this the basic process?
1. Install & configure a virtual machine on the host OS
2. Download & save the Android ISO as the guest OS
3. Boot the Android ISO guest OS inside that virtual machine
4. Run the desired Android software inside that guest OS
If it's that simple, then that is likely the best way to go.
But if it's that simple - why do so many Android emulators even exist?
Here's what I tried first, but Windows 10 hung when I tried it.
1. Download, install & configure VirtualBox (mine was already configured).
http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/LATEST-STABLE.TXT
(5.1.30)
http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/5.1.30/
http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/5.1.30/VirtualBox-5.1.30-118389-Win.exe
http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/5.1.30/VBoxGuestAdditions_5.1.30.iso
2. Download the latest Android X86 32-bit ISO file (usually less than 1GB)
https://www.fosshub.com/Android-x86.html/android-x86-7.1-rc2.iso
Name: Android32b
Type: Other
Version: Other/Unknown
Memory size: 64MB
Create a virtual hard disk now.
VDI (VirtualBox Disk Image)
Dynamically allocated
Virtual hard disk size: 2.00GB
Start
Select startup disk: android-x86-7.1-rc2.iso (681.00MB)
Start
Live CD - Run Android-X86 without installation <=I chose this option
Live CD - VESA mode
Live CD - Debug mode
Installation - Install Android-X86 to harddisk
The Windows-10 64-bit machine hung. I had to kill VirtualBox to
get my Windows mouse back.
Everything else was fine on Windows when I killed VirtualBox.
So, the Android ISO didn't work on the first pass.
"Memory size: 64MB" <===

How many smart phones do you know, that are this small ?

You might want to check what the typical size
setting is for that. I don't know what a good value
would be, but you'd better try another value.

Paul
Joe Scotch
2018-01-02 01:21:49 UTC
Permalink
"Memory size: 64MB" <==>
How many smart phones do you know, that are this small ?
You might want to check what the typical size
setting is for that. I don't know what a good value
would be, but you'd better try another value.
Thanks for that advice.
Normally there are default settings already set for things like Ubuntu and
Windows guest operating systems.
So I simply took the defaults (but for "other").

I'm surprised Android wasn't listed - but what I'll do is seek a tutorial
for how to get that Android ISO running inside of VirtualBox.

The support forum for VirtualBox is pretty good so I'll look there first.
Ralph Fox
2018-01-02 04:32:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
Post by Joe Scotch
Is this the basic process?
1. Install & configure a virtual machine on the host OS
2. Download & save the Android ISO as the guest OS
3. Boot the Android ISO guest OS inside that virtual machine
4. Run the desired Android software inside that guest OS
If it's that simple, then that is likely the best way to go.
But if it's that simple - why do so many Android emulators even exist?
Here is what I did with VMware Player

1. Download the Android X86 32-bit ISO file.
2. Configure a new virtual machine in VMware Player
Installer ISO: set to the Android X86 ISO
OS: "Other Linux 3.x kernel" (change; VMware wanted to default to BSD)
2GB RAM
32GB HDD
3. Start the new virtual machine, which then boots from the ISO as a virtual CD drive
4. The ISO asks if I want to
(a) Run Android from the CD without installation
(b) Install Android to the hard disk (virtual hard disk, that is).
If I choose (a) to run from the CD, there is no permanent storage.
Anything I download, any APKs I install, are gone when I next boot from the CD.
5. I choose (b) to install Android on the (virtual) HDD.
6. The ISO asks a few more questions
* Do I want to install GRUB -- yes
* How to format the file system -- ext4
7. The ISO then installs Android on the virtual HDD.
8. The ISO asks permission to reboot the VM.
9. I agree to reboot.
10. I disconnect the virtual CD to ensure that the VM boots
from the virtual HDD and not from the "Live CD" ISO.


FWIW here are a couple of articles about running Android-x86 in VMware.
They are now a few years old and refer to older versions of Android, but
they may be useful.
* https://blogs.vmware.com/workstation/2014/02/experience-android-kitkat-vmware-workstation.html
* http://xmodulo.com/how-to-install-and-run-android-vm-on-vmware-player.html
Post by Joe Scotch
Here's what I tried first, but Windows 10 hung when I tried it.
1. Download, install & configure VirtualBox (mine was already configured).
http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/LATEST-STABLE.TXT
(5.1.30)
http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/5.1.30/
http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/5.1.30/VirtualBox-5.1.30-118389-Win.exe
http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/5.1.30/VBoxGuestAdditions_5.1.30.iso
I don't know about VirtualBox, but VMware does not have guest additions for Android.
The VMware guest additions for Linux do not install on Android.
Post by Joe Scotch
2. Download the latest Android X86 32-bit ISO file (usually less than 1GB)
https://www.fosshub.com/Android-x86.html/android-x86-7.1-rc2.iso
Name: Android32b
Type: Other
Version: Other/Unknown
Memory size: 64MB
Your typical Android device today has 2GB or 3GB RAM, so that is what I would use
for memory here. I expect 64MB is not enough for modern versions of Android.

If you are running from "Live CD" (ISO) without installation, I believe it uses
part of this virtual RAM to simulate storage. So you don't want to make this too
small.
Post by Joe Scotch
Create a virtual hard disk now.
VDI (VirtualBox Disk Image)
Dynamically allocated
Virtual hard disk size: 2.00GB
Your typical Android device today has 16GB or 32GB of storage, so that is what I
would use for HDD size here. 2GB is probably not enough for the Android system.
Post by Joe Scotch
Start
Select startup disk: android-x86-7.1-rc2.iso (681.00MB)
Start
Live CD - Run Android-X86 without installation <== I chose this option
That may be OK for an initial look-see.

The catch with running without installation is that there is no permanent storage.
Anything you download, any APKs you install, are gone when you next run Android
from the Live CD (ISO).
Post by Joe Scotch
Live CD - VESA mode
Live CD - Debug mode
Installation - Install Android-X86 to harddisk
The Windows-10 64-bit machine hung.
I had to kill VirtualBox to get my Windows mouse back.
Your virtual machine's RAM setting (64MB) looks way too low. Try 2GB or 3GB.

If you still can't get it working, try one of the preconfigured VM images
from osboxes.org.
Post by Joe Scotch
Everything else was fine on Windows when I killed VirtualBox.
So, the Android ISO didn't work on the first pass.
--
Kind regards
Ralph
Joe Scotch
2018-01-03 22:20:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ralph Fox
Here is what I did with VMware Player
FWIW here are a couple of articles about running Android-x86 in VMware.
They are now a few years old and refer to older versions of Android, but
they may be useful.
* https://blogs.vmware.com/workstation/2014/02/experience-android-kitkat-vmware-workstation.html
* http://xmodulo.com/how-to-install-and-run-android-vm-on-vmware-player.html
Thanks for that help on your VMWare settings.
They seem echoed in the tutorials below that I will try next.

How to install Android inside of VirtualBox in Windows
https://www.howtogeek.com/164570/HOW-TO-INSTALL-ANDROID-IN-VIRTUALBOX/

This is an Android 5.0 lollipop specific tutorial
http://www.fixedbyvonnie.com/2015/03/how-to-install-android-5-0-lollipop-in-virtualbox-windows/

This is an Android 6.0 marshmallow specific tutorial
http://www.tactig.com/install-android-6-0-marshmallow-virtualbox-pc/

This is an Android 7.0 nougat specific tutorial
http://www.wikigain.com/install-android-7-0-nougat-on-virtualbox/
Joe Scotch
2018-01-03 23:23:07 UTC
Permalink
Joe Scotch
2018-01-04 02:20:27 UTC
Permalink
At this point, I get a blue Android setup screen asking me to choose the
language, but the Windows mouse doesn't yet put a cursor inside the Android
window except for the menus on the VM window.
So that's all I need to debug now.
The mouse is strange.

And, for some reason, the Guest Additions ISO won't work either.
C:\Program Files\Oracle\VirtualBox\VBoxGuestAdditions.iso

But Android is up, a Google Play account was created, and I ran Android
software on Windows following these tutorials for installing Android 7
Nougat on Windows
http://www.wikigain.com/install-android-7-0-nougat-on-pc/
http://www.wikigain.com/install-android-7-0-nougat-on-virtualbox/

Using those articles, I now have Android 7.1 running inside of Windows.
Loading Image...

I've used Google Play to install Android software in the virtual machine,
and it seems to work.
Loading Image...

The mouse is quirky, and I can't get the Guest Additions ISO to work but so
far those are the only glitches.
Loading Image...
Ralph Fox
2018-01-06 07:55:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
At this point, I get a blue Android setup screen asking me to choose the
language, but the Windows mouse doesn't yet put a cursor inside the Android
window except for the menus on the VM window.
So that's all I need to debug now.
The mouse is strange.
And, for some reason, the Guest Additions ISO won't work either.
C:\Program Files\Oracle\VirtualBox\VBoxGuestAdditions.iso
But Android is up, a Google Play account was created, and I ran Android
software on Windows following these tutorials for installing Android 7
Nougat on Windows
http://www.wikigain.com/install-android-7-0-nougat-on-pc/
http://www.wikigain.com/install-android-7-0-nougat-on-virtualbox/
Using those articles, I now have Android 7.1 running inside of Windows.
http://i.cubeupload.com/hb3lIb.jpg
I've used Google Play to install Android software in the virtual machine,
and it seems to work.
http://i.cubeupload.com/LhQbwD.jpg
The mouse is quirky, and I can't get the Guest Additions ISO to work but so
far those are the only glitches.
http://i.cubeupload.com/pXkXrr.png
For VMware it is like this. VirtualBox sounds similar.

1. There are no Guest Additions for Android. (The ISO does not
have an Android version of the Guest Additions.)

1.1 One cannot install the Guest Additions in Android.

1.2 One gets the VM fallback mouse behaviour for when guest
additions are not installed.

2. Mouse integration is not quite as seamless without guest
additions.

2.1 One clicks inside the virtual machine (VM client window
area), and the mouse now belongs to the guest. Moving the
mouse now moves the guest's mouse pointer. At this point
all mouse pointer movement is confined to inside the virtual
machine.

2.2 One then presses Ctrl+Alt together, and the VM releases the
mouse back to the host. Moving the mouse now moves the
host's mouse pointer. One can now move the mouse pointer
outside the VM and click on things in the host. One might
see a frozen guest mouse pointer, which does not move with
the mouse (until one goes back to 2.1).
--
Kind regards
Ralph
VanguardLH
2018-01-06 08:45:56 UTC
Permalink
For VMWare, guest additions are called VMWare Tools.

https://kb.vmware.com/s/article/340

For Linux (which Android is a variant), they give instructions on how to
install VMware Tools at:

https://kb.vmware.com/s/article/1018414

The pisser is that for Windows a driver gets installed which is easy but
for Linux you have to "install" their VMware Tools and then compile them
(see Notes under step 10). They mention having to run VMWare Tools in
the background which would be a pain on every boot of the guest OS. You
would have to schedule the program to load on startup or login or make
it a startup program.

For VirtualBox, they describe how to install their Guest Additions at:

https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E36500_01/E36502/html/qs-guest-additions.html

Obviously per their description, that is for installing a driver in a
guest running Windows. Then I found:

https://www.virtualbox.org/manual/ch04.html

The Linux section doesn't mention having to compile anything; however,
it also does not list Android as a supported Linux OS. From:

https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=42240
"Android is not a supported Guest OS, so there are no GA. Also, it
doesn't meet the requirements for guest addition support: you can't
install support packages for the kernel to make kernel modules."
(dated 2011 - so don't know if there's been a change)

Later posts, like:

https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=83722

reinforce that there are no Virtualbox Guest Additions for Android.
Android was open source in the past; see:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/debunking-four-myths-about-android-google-and-open-source/

Well, do an online search on "Google Android closed source" and you'll
find plenty of article warning that Google is going proprietary (closed
source), like:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/08/google_is_taking_android_proprietary_heres_how/

So there's even less chance of Oracle or someone else spending time to
figure out how to write OS interfaces to drivers in the VMM (virtual
machine manager) or pass-through drivers.
Joe Scotch
2018-01-06 17:03:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ralph Fox
For VMware it is like this. VirtualBox sounds similar.
1. There are no Guest Additions for Android. (The ISO does not
have an Android version of the Guest Additions.)
1.1 One cannot install the Guest Additions in Android.
1.2 One gets the VM fallback mouse behaviour for when guest
additions are not installed.
2. Mouse integration is not quite as seamless without guest
additions.
2.1 One clicks inside the virtual machine (VM client window
area), and the mouse now belongs to the guest. Moving the
mouse now moves the guest's mouse pointer. At this point
all mouse pointer movement is confined to inside the virtual
machine.
2.2 One then presses Ctrl+Alt together, and the VM releases the
mouse back to the host. Moving the mouse now moves the
host's mouse pointer. One can now move the mouse pointer
outside the VM and click on things in the host. One might
see a frozen guest mouse pointer, which does not move with
the mouse (until one goes back to 2.1).
It seems the quirks are similar between VirtualBox and VMWare.

In VirtualBox, the mouse is so hellish that it's the *major* flaw in the
setup, unless there's a trick to get the mouse to behave.

It takes *dozens* of steps to get past a multiple-click screen, such as the
Android setup screens are. It just does. It defies comprehension, and it
certainly defies an easy description.

The hellish mouse cursor works, but it's quirky as all hell. It will select
the wrong things so many times that it's not funny. You have to hold down
the left mouse button but the range of motion of the cursor is only one
small area on the Android screen - maybe 1/5th or 1/6th of the screen. So
you're constantly moving the mouse and then lifting up and then moving it.

That wouldn't be so bad if the cursor would start the second time where you
put it, but it doesn't. It's only sort of kind of in that spot you last
left it.

That too wouldn't be so bad if a scroll screen didn't occur - but when they
do, you end up constantly scrolling incorrectly, and selection buttons go
on and off because the mouse seems to start pseudo randomly on the screen.

So you move the mouse cursor constantly, where a multi-click screen takes
at least ten times the minimum clicks, and often twenty times that,
depending on the complexity of the screen.

There *must* be a trick to this mouse inside the Android window inside of
VirtualBox on Windows, because it's completely unusable as it stands.

Certainly the VirtualBox mouse additions is not the trick.

Maybe the guest additions ISO will solve it - but I can't get it to
install.
Ralph Fox
2018-01-10 11:20:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
It seems the quirks are similar between VirtualBox and VMWare.
In VirtualBox, the mouse is so hellish that it's the *major* flaw in the
setup, unless there's a trick to get the mouse to behave.
It takes *dozens* of steps to get past a multiple-click screen, such as the
Android setup screens are. It just does. It defies comprehension, and it
certainly defies an easy description.
The hellish mouse cursor works, but it's quirky as all hell. It will select
the wrong things so many times that it's not funny. You have to hold down
the left mouse button but the range of motion of the cursor is only one
small area on the Android screen - maybe 1/5th or 1/6th of the screen. So
you're constantly moving the mouse and then lifting up and then moving it.
That wouldn't be so bad if the cursor would start the second time where you
put it, but it doesn't. It's only sort of kind of in that spot you last
left it.
That too wouldn't be so bad if a scroll screen didn't occur - but when they
do, you end up constantly scrolling incorrectly, and selection buttons go
on and off because the mouse seems to start pseudo randomly on the screen.
So you move the mouse cursor constantly, where a multi-click screen takes
at least ten times the minimum clicks, and often twenty times that,
depending on the complexity of the screen.
There *must* be a trick to this mouse inside the Android window inside of
VirtualBox on Windows, because it's completely unusable as it stands.
Certainly the VirtualBox mouse additions is not the trick.
Maybe the guest additions ISO will solve it - but I can't get it to
install.
In VMware it is still quite usable without mouse guest additions.
Your experience with VirtualBox sounds far worse than mine with VMware.

In VMware you just have to remember that, without mouse guest additions,
the mouse operates in two different modes:
(1) The mouse is owned by the host.
(2) The mouse is owned by the guest.

If the mouse is owned by the host and you want to click on something
in the guest, it takes two clicks like so

1. You click the _host's_ mouse pointer in the VM client window.
2. Then you move the _guest's_ mouse pointer to the guest thing
you want to click on, ands click.

The Windows (host) mouse pointer is white with a black border, while
the Android (guest) mouse pointer is black with a white border.
So it is easy to see which mouse pointer you are working with.
--
Kind regards
Ralph
VanguardLH
2018-01-01 22:21:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
What free Android emulator do *YOU* use on Windows for running F-Droid APKs?
https://appzy9.com/download-f-droid-apk-android-ios-pc/

Me (as in "you" in which do "you" use)? Nope, don't use any Android
apps on my Windows desktop PC so I don't need an Android emulator. The
above is how that person got F-Droid working for them under Windows.

Bluestacks
https://www.bluestacks.com/
(free)

From the appzy9 site:
Is F-droid Safe To Use?
F-droid is the best app for download applications and also update the
pre installed apps.

Comical response. Never addresses the question. Like most software
authors and content providers, they idemnify themselves; see
https://f-droid.org/en/about/ ("use it at your own risk").

From https://f-droid.org/en/docs/:
It is a community-run free software project developed by a wide range
of contributors.

From https://f-droid.org/wiki/page/Known_Repositories and
https://forum.f-droid.org/t/known-repositories/721, there are a couple
of official F-droid repositories. They do set some flags on some apps
(https://f-droid.org/wiki/page/AntiFeatures). 1464 apps have one, or
more, flags on them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-Droid says "The
F-Droid repository contains a growing number of more than 2,300 apps",
so either only about 64% have been analyzed or only 64% qualify for
having flag(s) set on them or some percentage of some analyzed apps have
gotten flagged. Impossible to tell how many apps have been analyzed.
Joe Scotch
2018-01-01 22:45:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by VanguardLH
It is a community-run free software project developed by a wide range
of contributors.
Just to clarify ...

My only concern at this point in time is *how* to run an Android APK on
Windows - which is a valid technical question.

Seems to me anyone who runs Windows who has an Android smart phone "might"
want to know how to run those apps on Windows - just because they may also
have an app they like that is only on Android.

In my case, as I said in the OP, the only Android app I care to run on
Windows is New Pipe because it has functionality that isn't known to be
available on Windows in a single executable.

<https://f-droid.org/wiki/page/org.schabi.newpipe>
Ken Blake
2018-01-01 23:56:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
Seems to me anyone who runs Windows who has an Android smart phone "might"
want to know how to run those apps on Windows - just because they may also
have an app they like that is only on Android.
Joe Scotch
2018-01-02 03:33:57 UTC
Permalink
Maybe some such people do, but not me.
Ummm.... OK.

I have no desire to wear a dress and frilly panties either ... but I don't
muddle a technical thread just to tell the world I'm not interested in
doing so like you just did.
John Doe
2018-01-02 03:44:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
I have no desire to wear a dress and frilly panties
Something tells me you do.
John Doe
2018-01-02 03:43:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
Seems to me anyone who runs Windows who has an Android
smart phone "might" want to know how to run those apps on
Windows - just because they may also have an app they like
that is only on Android.
Maybe some such people do, but not me.
Not me. The only thing that matters is the ability to transfer
files between various devices and my PC.

The idea of looking for an Android app that works on Windows
sounds silly to me, considering the excess of Windows' apps that
has existed for decades.
Joe Scotch
2018-01-02 04:31:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Doe
Not me. The only thing that matters is the ability to transfer
files between various devices and my PC.
This is trivial to transfer files over the local LAN from Android to
Windows and vice versa.

I've been doing it for years using zero software on Windows and just the
one "FTP Server (Free)" open-source software on Android.

Windows file explorer works fine, as does FileZilla or WinSCP freeware to
transfer *anything* from or to Android and Windows over the LAN.

You can even use rsync-like tools to sync your Android memory with your
Windows hard disk.
Post by John Doe
The idea of looking for an Android app that works on Windows
sounds silly to me, considering the excess of Windows' apps that
has existed for decades.
VanguardLH kindly wrote up an extensive analysis of his Android tools with
respect to their need on Windows, as did I in response.

Other than the really free nice hourglass timers on Android, and the very
easy to use free photo manipulation tools, Wi-Fi debuggers (particularly
for laptops), Bluetooth OBD Scanners (for laptops), SMS/Visual Voicemail
apps, police/fire scanners, and calculator widgets, I think most of the
rest of the tools on my Android phone have better Windows counterparts.
VanguardLH
2018-01-04 20:28:38 UTC
Permalink
John Doe is a known troll: nymshifter, starts bait threads, insulting or
flippant replies, attacks respondents that don't agree, feeds other
trolls, cross-posts into dump/garbage/unrelated groups.
BurfordTJustice
2018-01-04 20:45:11 UTC
Permalink
That is what you excel at....

"VanguardLH" <***@nguard.LH> wrote in message news:***@v.nguard.lh...

:: flippant replies,
Joe Scotch
2018-01-05 03:08:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by VanguardLH
John Doe is a known troll: nymshifter, starts bait threads, insulting or
flippant replies, attacks respondents that don't agree, feeds other
trolls, cross-posts into dump/garbage/unrelated groups.
Oh. OK. I'll plonk him then. I thought he was serious at first, but then he
went off the edge pretty quickly. I'll stop responding to him.

Thanks for responding to my list of Android apps, where, I hadn't thought
about it much before you responded, but you proved to me that there's
really not a whole lot on Android that isn't already on Windows.

The one thing, I think, Android has over Windows, is the *simplicity* of
some apps, such as the sandtimer hourglass egg timer apps.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.alaskalinuxuser.hourglass>

I have never found that simplicity on Windows yet.
VanguardLH
2018-01-05 05:58:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
Post by VanguardLH
John Doe is a known troll: nymshifter, starts bait threads, insulting or
flippant replies, attacks respondents that don't agree, feeds other
trolls, cross-posts into dump/garbage/unrelated groups.
Oh. OK. I'll plonk him then. I thought he was serious at first, but then he
went off the edge pretty quickly. I'll stop responding to him.
I don't delete unwanted posts. I flag them as Ignored and then use a
Hide Ignored default view that hides ignore-flagged posts (and their
subthreads - if I don't care to see some posters then I also don't want
to see replies to them). If someone mentions something in a hidden
post, I can simply switch to the All Messages view. Sometimes I also
switch to the All Messages view to check my filters are working without
false positives. My client lets me test on all headers (overview and
non-overview) versus other clients that only let you test on the
overview headers, plus I get to use regex (regular expressions) to
better focus my filters on the targets to reduce false positives;
however, false positives do happen so I may have to tweak my regex
filters, plus trolls will nymshift or sockpuppet so I need to see all
messages to make sure the regex is more accurate.

I was checking my filters for false positives by using the All Messages
view when I saw you started to get snagged by John Doe. As with all
trolls, sometimes they forget to troll or decide to nice for an hour or
two. That is, even trolls might [accidentally] help. Hard to be nasty
all the time. Someone wanted to nominate me as a MVP (Microsoft
Valuable Professional) for my contributions in Usenet for almost 20
years. Nah, sometimes I decide not to be nice and didn't want to
tarnish the MVP community. I declined but appreciated the offer.

As you can see, there is no dearth of trolls as evidenced by Burford
exposing himself in his reply to me. He took his nym (but [overtly]
mispelled the first name) from the the idiot sheriff in "Smokey and the
Bandit"; see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buford_T._Justice and
His nym is appropriate and
self-condemning. My filter's comment on him:

# BurfordTJustice: Floods with drivel/political/racist/flame posts,
cross-posts to garbage groups, feeds other trolls, picked a nym to
exhibit his deliberate moronity.
Post by Joe Scotch
Thanks for responding to my list of Android apps, where, I hadn't thought
about it much before you responded, but you proved to me that there's
really not a whole lot on Android that isn't already on Windows.
The one thing, I think, Android has over Windows, is the *simplicity* of
some apps, such as the sandtimer hourglass egg timer apps.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id m.alaskalinuxuser.hourglass>
I have never found that simplicity on Windows yet.
While not a robust timer (i.e., a simple one with a basic digital
display, no fansy cutsy graphics), I've used FreeWatch for a long time,
especially during online tech chats or tech calls to time how long they
put me on hold.

http://www2.whidbey.net/gordonf/FreeWatch/

It doesn't do much but then I've not needed a timer to do much. I've
seen stopwatch programs that let you have multiple timers going. There
should be loads of timer and/or alarm programs (some have portable
versions so you don't have to install to test the programs).

http://www.softpedia.com/dyn-search.php?search_term=timer
http://www.softpedia.com/dyn-search.php?search_term=alarm

You might want to see my reply about using AirDroid. That eliminates
using an Android emulator and instead runs the Android app on its native
platform but lets you view it on your Windows PC. You run the Android
app on the smartphone. You can view it on Windows (or any platform and
anywhere by using a web browser using their web access method).
Joe Scotch
2018-01-06 05:00:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by VanguardLH
I don't delete unwanted posts.
My Usenet interface is comprised of three things:
1. A telnet backend
2. A vi frontend
3. Scripts galore ported over the years from platform to platform

I have to manually put someone in my killfile, which is literally a
dictionary lookup file (like everything else), so, once I plonk someone
(which I rarely do), they're gonna be in there forever.

As an aside, you'll understand that a telnet approach to Usenet doesn't
care about nntp-related "headers"; headers are just a complication that is
randomly pulled out of a dictionary lookup.

The dictionary itself is not random, as I have to create those files by
hand, but they are simply lines inside of one of the many feeder files:

Here's a tiny snippet of the user-agent dictionary lookup, for example:
flnews/0.14 (for AIX)
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.5.1
slrn/0.9.8.1 (FreeBSD)
tin/1.4.5-20010409 ("One More Nightmare") (UNIX) (SunOS/5.10 (i86pc))
Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American)
Xnews/2009.05.01
MicroPlanet-Gravity/3.0.4
XPN/1.2.6 (Street Spirit ; Linux)
Thoth/1.9.0 (Mac OS X)
Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.1830
etc.

Come to think of it, I probably should update that list as they're getting
old and that will hurt my anonymity from the aggregator bots. :)
Post by VanguardLH
http://www2.whidbey.net/gordonf/FreeWatch/
Nice and simple, I agree. It's a stopwatch, not an alarm timer, but I
wasn't clear so that's understandable. I like that it runs on any Windows
and that the user interface is fast and clean. At first I wondered why
there was a "description" field but then I realized it runs as many as you
want concurrently so that's how to tell them apart.

It's a keeper for a stopwatch - but not a 10-minute type alarm timer.
Post by VanguardLH
http://www.softpedia.com/dyn-search.php?search_term=timer
http://www.softpedia.com/dyn-search.php?search_term=alarm
Aaauuurrrgggghhh! Lists of lists of lists of lists of lists of lists.
The high expense of freeware is in all the mistakes in those lists! :)
Post by VanguardLH
You might want to see my reply about using AirDroid. That eliminates
using an Android emulator and instead runs the Android app on its native
platform but lets you view it on your Windows PC.
I saw that, and I appreciate the level of care, concern, and detail you put
into your very factual answers. I deplore these types of solutions, where,
really, all I really ever wanted was a New Pipe port to Windows. :)

I didn't really "want" to use an emulator - it just happened to be the only
solution that would run all of which New Pipe does, in a single app, on
Windows.

BTW, to prove that I can "learn", I did put AdBlock in my Windows browser
and I was amazed at how simple it was to do a before and after of YouTube
where those little yellow advertisement bars disappeared!

So AdBlock has its place - but I don't generally watch YouTube in a
browser, and I generally deplore browser-specific solutions.

But it does work. And it is simple. So kudos to AdBlock for that!
Post by VanguardLH
You run the Android
app on the smartphone. You can view it on Windows (or any platform and
anywhere by using a web browser using their web access method).
I think I used to do that with stuff like Kies and some Samsung Play apps
and my Motorola did that long ago (Motorola RAZR - that's how long ago it
was), but I deplore that approach philosophically.
VanguardLH
2018-01-02 03:40:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
Seems to me anyone who runs Windows who has an Android smart phone "might"
want to know how to run those apps on Windows - just because they may also
have an app they like that is only on Android.
Maybe for some Android games. All the apps on my Android phone either
have a far more robust counterpart on my desktop PC under Windows 7 or
the Android apps are not applicable for use on my desktop PC.

- A compass app makes no sense on a desktop PC that never moves atop a
desk that doesn't move in a house that doesn't move.
- An app to detail the cellular signal and tower is not applicable on a
desktop PC without cellular components.
- Although I could use wifi to connect a desktop PC to the wifi
router/cable modem, I prefer wired Ethernet connections for security
and simplicity and highest bandwidth, so I don't need an Android app
emulated on my PC telling me the wifi details. Some users do use wifi
between their desktop PCs and their wifi router but there are are
Windows programs for that rather than using an Android emulator to run
an Android app.
- There are Android apps for MS Word, Excel, Powerpoint, OneNote, and
Outlook. I prefer the far more robust desktop versions of those
programs. If I wanted free equivalents, I'd use LibreOffice for the
office suite, emClient for e-mail/calendar/tasks/contacts (I trialed
Thunderbird for 6 months but discarded it), and OneNote (which is free
to everyone under every supported OS, including Android and Windows).
- My desktop PC is not going with me on drives so none of the navigation
apps are applicable on it: Google Maps, Here WeGo, Waze, Gas Guru,
ParKING. I don't need Android nav apps on my desktop PC where I can
use a web browser to access the more robust web interface to those
services.
For example, I cannot report in the Android Google Maps app via
feedback an error or correction in a proposed route by Google Maps
but I can using a web browser on my desktop PC.
- I don't need any of the Android apps for shopping (Walmart, Target,
Home Depot, Menards, Cub, eBay, Amazon, Newegg) since using the web
browser on a desktop PC gives me all the functions of their web sites
instead of some limited subset of features through their Android apps.
- While the Adobe Reader app is on my phone, I wouldn't bother using
an Android emulator to run that on my desktop PC since there is a
desktop PC version of that program. In addition, I use PDF-Xchange
Editor on my desktop PC.
- I don't need a Speedtest app on my desktop PC where the web browser is
a better interface to their site.
- I have the Droid Optimizer app on my phone but it inapplicable on any
OS other than Android. Under other [desktop] OSes, I can actually
exit a program to have it actually and immediately unload from system
memory, not linger around in limbo awaiting another app squeezing it
out of memory.
- I have an Amcrest app for an IP camera on the phone but the web
interface on a desktop PC provides far more features than does their
Android app.

I could run wifi dialers on my desktop PC to make and receive calls
using my desktop PC but I don't have the need. While I have Skype on
the phone, I don't bother with it on my desktop PC. Otherwise, I find
Android apps to be poor cousins of far more robust software I can use on
the desktop PC under Windows.

Sorry, I don't waste my time on inane games designed to addict boobs
with endorphin stimulation, like Candy Crush. Personally I cannot see
the draw to those stupid games; however, I also find slot machines at
the casinos and the whole environ there to be visually and audibly
irritating, not pleasure stimulating. Instead of luring me in, they
make me want to get out.

I see no point in installing an Android emulator to run [more slowly
than on native hardware] an Android app (NewPipe) to supplant using a
web browser on my desktop PC to use YouTube. Maybe there are Android
apps for which there is no Windows counterpart to run on a desktop PC
but I haven't run across any of those that interest me. If I'm using a
desktop PC, I want more robust features and functionality than found in
Android apps, or use Windows software designed for that OS rather than
trying to intercede an emulator for lesser functionality in an app coded
for a different OS.

Just what do you get in the NewPipe app for Android that isn't usable
through a richer desktop web browser running on a desktop PC to use the
Youtube site?
Post by Joe Scotch
In my case, as I said in the OP, the only Android app I care to run on
Windows is New Pipe because it has functionality that isn't known to be
available on Windows in a single executable.
<https://f-droid.org/wiki/page/org.schabi.newpipe>
Bluestacks is one choice already mentioned by me in my prior reply
(snipped in the quoted content in your reply to my reply).

Another that comes to mind is the Android SDK that includes an emulator.
It's part of Android Studio used by developers to use their Windows
hosts to do Android programming plus it allows testing under different
Android scenarios. Since you aren't doing programming but just want to
run an Android app, it's likely an emulator bundled in a programming IDE
is overkill for your needs so I didn't suggest it before. See
https://developer.android.com/studio/index.html.

Another is to use an image of the Android OS ran as a guest OS inside of
a virtual machine. Fox already mentioned that solution.

Now it's up to *YOU* to decide which environ under which to run an
Android app that really has no use on a desktop PC. There is better
software for PCs designed to run natively on that hardware+OS platform
than to emulate Android apps on an alien platform. For your example of
NewPipe, I don't see it is better to emulate it on a PC versus software
meant to run under an OS on the PC.
Joe Scotch
2018-01-02 04:20:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by VanguardLH
Post by Joe Scotch
Seems to me anyone who runs Windows who has an Android smart phone "might"
want to know how to run those apps on Windows - just because they may also
have an app they like that is only on Android.
Maybe for some Android games. All the apps on my Android phone either
have a far more robust counterpart on my desktop PC under Windows 7 or
the Android apps are not applicable for use on my desktop PC.
Thank you for your detailed post which adds to our group tribal knowledge.

It's a good question to ask if there is major value in any Android app that
isn't yet on a single app on Windows.

Clearly the New Pipe app is one of those major apps, since many people
search and watch YouTube without paying the $10 per month (or whatever the
current subscription cost is) for YouTube Red.
Post by VanguardLH
- A compass app makes no sense on a desktop PC that never moves atop a
desk that doesn't move in a house that doesn't move.
This is true, as are many of the very nice mapping apps on Android like
OSMAnd~ or MapFactor Navigator, although some of them (particularly the
topographic mapping apps) might be useful on Windows ... although I do very
well with Caltopo, which I highly recommend for Windows backcountry
mapping. https://caltopo.com/map.html
Post by VanguardLH
- An app to detail the cellular signal and tower is not applicable on a
desktop PC without cellular components.
This is a good point, so, I agree in that I don't think the cellular wi-fi
signal such as that which we get out of the Android, such as Network Cell
Info Lite, or Netmonitor, or GSM Signal Monitoring, or MIT Cell Tracker, or
Cell Spy Catcher, etc.
Post by VanguardLH
- Although I could use wifi to connect a desktop PC to the wifi
router/cable modem, I prefer wired Ethernet connections for security
and simplicity and highest bandwidth, so I don't need an Android app
emulated on my PC telling me the wifi details. Some users do use wifi
between their desktop PCs and their wifi router but there are are
Windows programs for that rather than using an Android emulator to run
an Android app.
The main Windows program for that, I think, is inSSIDer, but the Android
apps do a nice job also, such as Fritz! WLAN (my favorite).
Post by VanguardLH
- There are Android apps for MS Word, Excel, Powerpoint, OneNote, and
Outlook. I prefer the far more robust desktop versions of those
programs. If I wanted free equivalents, I'd use LibreOffice for the
office suite, emClient for e-mail/calendar/tasks/contacts (I trialed
Thunderbird for 6 months but discarded it), and OneNote (which is free
to everyone under every supported OS, including Android and Windows).
- My desktop PC is not going with me on drives so none of the navigation
apps are applicable on it: Google Maps, Here WeGo, Waze, Gas Guru,
ParKING. I don't need Android nav apps on my desktop PC where I can
use a web browser to access the more robust web interface to those
services.
I agree with you that almost any "editor" on Android would be best using
the Windows version anyway.
Post by VanguardLH
- I don't need any of the Android apps for shopping (Walmart, Target,
Home Depot, Menards, Cub, eBay, Amazon, Newegg) since using the web
browser on a desktop PC gives me all the functions of their web sites
instead of some limited subset of features through their Android apps.
This is also true, where the desktop browser suffices for most stores.
Post by VanguardLH
- While the Adobe Reader app is on my phone, I wouldn't bother using
an Android emulator to run that on my desktop PC since there is a
desktop PC version of that program. In addition, I use PDF-Xchange
Editor on my desktop PC.
Yup. The PDF stuff is best on a desktop.
Post by VanguardLH
- I don't need a Speedtest app on my desktop PC where the web browser is
a better interface to their site.
Yup. Speedtest is easily done on a desktop.
Post by VanguardLH
Otherwise, I find
Android apps to be poor cousins of far more robust software I can use on
the desktop PC under Windows.
You make a good case that it's the rare Android app that does something
"better" than a Windows equivalent.

I think New Pipe is the only one I can think of although I think some of
the sand timers are pretty good on Android compared to Windows
counterparts.

I think the Android app drawer apps don't have a viable Windows
counterpart, but I can't imagine how they would work on Windows anyway.

The SMS and visual voicemail interfaces on Android might be nice on Windows
though, don't you think?
Post by VanguardLH
Sorry, I don't waste my time on inane games designed to addict boobs
with endorphin stimulation, like Candy Crush.
Every day I try to solve a dozen technical problems.
Who needs games. Not me either.
I don't even do crossword puzzles.
Just fixing my car is a crossword puzzle alone.
Post by VanguardLH
Personally I cannot see
the draw to those stupid games; however, I also find slot machines at
the casinos and the whole environ there to be visually and audibly
irritating, not pleasure stimulating. Instead of luring me in, they
make me want to get out.
When I see a secretary (admin) playing solitaire, it makes me wonder whose
life can be so boring that they play games with themselves?
Post by VanguardLH
I see no point in installing an Android emulator to run [more slowly
than on native hardware] an Android app (NewPipe) to supplant using a
web browser on my desktop PC to use YouTube.
The main draw of New Pipe is the lack of in-video ads, but the other draw
is the lack of needing to log in, and the next main draw is the ability to
download and extract, and a further draw is the ability to play on any
player, where that player would have additional features.

All this can be done on Windows - but with separate tools and actions.

So the main draw of New Pipe is an all-in-one GUI that does what YouTube
Red offers, for $10/month or whatever it costs.
Post by VanguardLH
Maybe there are Android
apps for which there is no Windows counterpart to run on a desktop PC
but I haven't run across any of those that interest me.
Do you use K9 Mail? Lots of people on Android do.
How about Snapseed or Deep Art Effects?

I find the photo-manipulation software on Android incredibly easy to use
compared to, say, The GIMP or Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro, etc.
Post by VanguardLH
If I'm using a
desktop PC, I want more robust features and functionality than found in
Android apps, or use Windows software designed for that OS rather than
trying to intercede an emulator for lesser functionality in an app coded
for a different OS.
I think the WiFi debugging and photo manipulation freeware on Android are
quite useful where it would be nice to find similar counterparts on Windows
that are better than Irfanview, Paint.NET, ImageMagick, Pinta, Sketcher,
etc.
Post by VanguardLH
Just what do you get in the NewPipe app for Android that isn't usable
through a richer desktop web browser running on a desktop PC to use the
Youtube site?
I think we can surmise that New Pipe is worth about $10/month to many
people since it's essentially what YouTube Red is (or thereabouts).
Post by VanguardLH
Post by Joe Scotch
In my case, as I said in the OP, the only Android app I care to run on
Windows is New Pipe because it has functionality that isn't known to be
available on Windows in a single executable.
<https://f-droid.org/wiki/page/org.schabi.newpipe>
Bluestacks is one choice already mentioned by me in my prior reply
(snipped in the quoted content in your reply to my reply).
I'm currently testing the Android ISO inside of a virtual machine.
That seems to be the most direct method - although I've been failing but
probably only because I didn't follow (or create) a tutorial yet.

I'm sure I'll get it running though as there is no technical reason Android
shouldn't run inside of Windows.
Post by VanguardLH
Another that comes to mind is the Android SDK that includes an emulator.
It's part of Android Studio used by developers to use their Windows
hosts to do Android programming plus it allows testing under different
Android scenarios. Since you aren't doing programming but just want to
run an Android app, it's likely an emulator bundled in a programming IDE
is overkill for your needs so I didn't suggest it before. See
https://developer.android.com/studio/index.html.
Yup. That was one of the suggestions I found when I searched.
My plan is simple (and always is simple).
1. I'll try VirtualBox with an Android ISO
2. If that fails, I'll try Nox (which was often recommended)
3. If that fails, I'll try another one on the list.
Post by VanguardLH
Another is to use an image of the Android OS ran as a guest OS inside of
a virtual machine. Fox already mentioned that solution.
Yes. What I like about this solution is that I already run a bevy of
operating systems inside of the virtual machine so this would be just one
more.

I like the simplicity and directness of this solution.
KISS is good.
Post by VanguardLH
Now it's up to *YOU* to decide which environ under which to run an
Android app that really has no use on a desktop PC. There is better
software for PCs designed to run natively on that hardware+OS platform
than to emulate Android apps on an alien platform. For your example of
NewPipe, I don't see it is better to emulate it on a PC versus software
meant to run under an OS on the PC.
You bring up a good point that the software we run on Android "mostly"
already exists (in better form) on Windows.

This is a long post so I'll post separately the list of Android APKs I have
stored on my phone (they're automatically created and stored and archived
to Windows) where I think mainly the photo manipulators and calculators and
sand timers and some of the wifi debuggers and police scanners may be
better than those on Windows (along with New Pipe) - but not much else
offhand.
M.L.
2018-01-02 09:45:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
I find the photo-manipulation software on Android incredibly easy to use
compared to, say, The GIMP or Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro, etc.
Apples and oranges. There's no way any Android phone GUI can handle
the breadth of surgical photo manipulation tasks that Photoshop is
designed to handle.
Joe Scotch
2018-01-03 19:11:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by M.L.
Post by Joe Scotch
I find the photo-manipulation software on Android incredibly easy to use
compared to, say, The GIMP or Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro, etc.
Apples and oranges. There's no way any Android phone GUI can handle
the breadth of surgical photo manipulation tasks that Photoshop is
designed to handle.
I think that's the whole point.

Take my Hourglass APK as an example:
Hourglass-com.alaskalinuxuser.hourglass-6-v1.6.apk

For example, the Android "hourglass" app is fantastically simple.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.alaskalinuxuser.hourglass>

Does something that powerfully simple app does exist for Windows?

The power is in the UI.
1. You bring up the app
2. You slide the slider for the time
3. And that's it.

Does something that simple exist on Windows for an hourglass timer?

Same with the no-longer-free "Paper Artist" tool that I use on Android:
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dama.paperartistgp>

It's so ridiculously simple that I would love to see an equivalently simple
and yet powerful Windows clone.

1. You bring up the photo in the app
2. You press a button which manipulates it
3. And the power is you "swish" your finger over it to modify beautifully

Does something that powerfully simple even exist on Windows?
VanguardLH
2018-01-04 04:09:26 UTC
Permalink
321 Payer-my.bhul.video.player-1303-v1.3.3.apk
Adware
Windows: VideoLAN VLC (adfree)
3C Toolbox-ccc71.at.free-19232-v1.9.2.3.apk
Adware, superfluous on Windows
AdAway-org.adaway-60-v3.2.apk
Adware
Windows: uBlock Origin, AdBlock Plus for web browser, superfluous in
other Windows software
Adobe Photoshop Sketch-com.adobe.creativeapps.sketch-20200001-v2.0.162.apk
Windows: Krita, MyPaint ... lots of choices.
AFWall+--dev.ukanth.ufirewall-15902-v2.9.1.apk
Oh puh-leaze, you already know there are robust Windows firewalls.
AirDroid-com.sand.airdroid-30203-v4.1.0.4.apk
Windows: Brings phone screen to Windows. Not applicable on Windows.
Alarm Klock-com.angrydoughnuts.android.alarmclock-15-v2.3.apk
Windows: https://www.google.com/search?q=windows+alarm+clock+freeware
(I'll let you research what features you actually use in Alarm Klock
to have in a Windows program).
All-In-One Toolbox-imoblife.toolbox.full-150155-v7.2.4.apk
Adware
Windows: TONS of these all-in-one programs, typically with weak
components (better to get single-purpose more robust tools).
All video player-com.sva.mediaplayer.hdvideoplayer-4-v4.0.apk
Not found at Google Play Store. How many video players do you need?
Windows: VideoLAN, MPC-HC, and lots of other choices.
Allo-com.google.android.apps.fireball-20070018-v8.0.035_RC09 (armeabi-v7a_xhdpi).apk
Oh, yes, there are no Windows chat apps, uh huh.
Android Explorer-com.iamtrk.androidexplorer-1-v1.0.apk
Windows: Use Windows/File Explorer or many alternatives.
Androsens 2-com.tritop.androsense2-13-v1.93.apk
Not applicable to a PC.
AndSMB-lysesoft.andsmb-31-v3.4.apk
Windows: Don't need a Samba client on Windows. Need one on Linux (and
Android is a Linux variant).
Angulo-eu.domob.angulo-20000-v2.0.apk
Not found on Google Play Store.
AnySoftKeyboard-com.menny.android.anysoftkeyboard-1726-v1.8.401.apk
PCs have real keyboards, not onscreen touchpads.

I didn't bother to analyze the rest of your very long list as it is
evident you have not inspected those Android apps to see if there are
Windows equivalents or even a need on a PC for Android functions related
to hardware features of THAT platform (smartphones).
Joe Scotch
2018-01-04 14:31:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by VanguardLH
I didn't bother to analyze the rest of your very long list as it is
evident you have not inspected those Android apps to see if there are
Windows equivalents or even a need on a PC for Android functions related
to hardware features of THAT platform (smartphones).
It would take too long to go through that list.

I went through the installed apps and already characterized that the main
things that are on Android but not on Windows on my phone are
a. Simple sand timer style quick 10-minute timer apps
b. Simple photo manipulation where you swish your finger over the photo
c. Powerful Wi-Fi signal strength debugging tools (better than inSSIDer)

All in all, I would agree now that I've done the same kind of survey you've
done, that the software on Android doesn't have a lot over the software on
Windows.

The only two that I can think of that I want to port are the sand timers
and the New Pipe YouTube Red clone.

Maybe a few calculators - but that's about it.
VanguardLH
2018-01-04 20:08:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
Post by VanguardLH
I didn't bother to analyze the rest of your very long list as it is
evident you have not inspected those Android apps to see if there are
Windows equivalents or even a need on a PC for Android functions related
to hardware features of THAT platform (smartphones).
It would take too long to go through that list.
I went through the installed apps and already characterized that the main
things that are on Android but not on Windows on my phone are
a. Simple sand timer style quick 10-minute timer apps
b. Simple photo manipulation where you swish your finger over the photo
c. Powerful Wi-Fi signal strength debugging tools (better than inSSIDer)
All in all, I would agree now that I've done the same kind of survey you've
done, that the software on Android doesn't have a lot over the software on
Windows.
The only two that I can think of that I want to port are the sand timers
and the New Pipe YouTube Red clone.
Maybe a few calculators - but that's about it.
You mentioned AirDroid but that doesn't need an Android emulator to run
on Windows. In fact, the point of using Airdroid on Windows is to bring
over the phone's screen. That lets you manipulate your phone using your
PC, like taking call on your PC. It's also easier texting on a real
keyboard on the PC.

For NewPipe, "Lightweight YouTube frontend that's supposed to be used
without the proprietary YouTube-API or any of Google's (proprietary)
play-services. NewPipe only parses the YouTube website in order to gain
the information it needs". Screen scraping or element parsing is an
iffy method to interface to a web site. It requires the underlying
program or site to not change. Google will keep changing their services
which means NewPipe has to catch up. I ran into the same situation with
other screen scraper or element parsing software: the moment the source
changes, users are dead until the author gets around to making a fix
which could be hours or many days or weeks. When something changes at
YouTube, I've read where NewPipe users start complaining ""failed to
decrypt video URL signature" or other problems. The same user
complaints appear when Google changes YouTube and then programs that use
youtube-dl (https://rg3.github.io/youtube-dl/) starts failing.

At one time, I used YPOPs (YahooPOPs) to gain access to Yahoo Mail (in
the USA, they discontinued POP access unless you paid). YPOPs worked as
a local proxy: your e-mail client connected to the YPOPs proxy as though
it were the mail server and YPOPs connected to the real server
pretending to be the client. When Yahoo changed their web page layout
(so screen scraping failed) or changed the definition of the object
(elements) within their web pages (so element parsing failed) then YPOPs
stopped working. All the YPOPs users had to wait until the author had
some free time to work on his program to determine why it started
failing and how to fix it. I've QA'd enterprise screen scraping sofware
(to merge medical databases from different HMOs) and the requirement was
the screens couldn't change on for the underlying programs that were
getting merged. If the screens changed, it was pretty easy to redefine
the new UI change but a change did have to get registered to get the
screen scraping to work again.

How big is the development team for NewPipe? Just one guy or a
multi-member team that is worldwide (different timezones so different
waking periods)? "Built by F-Droid" doesn't really say how many dev(s)
are assigned to working on this project. F-Droid is a repository, not a
software dev. Volunteers come and go. https://newpipe.schabi.org/
mentions "Team NewPipe". Well, we all know Internet lets entities bloat
themselves. So just how many are on this "team"? From what I found in
their blog, "Christian Schabesberger, initiator and maintainer of
NewPipe". So it's just one guy. Well, he works, eats, and sleeps so he
won't be available at all times to work on his app and being just one
guy means it'll take longer to analyze the change that makes his app
fail and time to implement a fix. Since his app is not distributed via
the Google Play Store, you won't be getting an automatic update if and
when a fixed version is available.

Google's service APIs are free. Don't know why the author didn't design
a different UI to YouTube but continue to use the API interface which is
stable and well defined. No site publishes documentation on the
construction on their web pages (because the web page is the document).
Seems the author doesn't want to rely on local libs nor write his own
own code to issue the commands to the service API. The YPOPs author had
to use screen scraping because Yahoo didn't have a service API for mail.
He got stuck having to scrape Yahoo's webmail client to deliver and send
the e-mails to/from a local e-mail client. With a service API
available, that seems the more stable method to access the service while
providing whatever custom UI you want for your client. Parsing a web
site is not the most reliable method to access that site.

"NewPipe is a YouTube player that does not use Google Play Services or
YouTube API". Hmm, so the author thinks they need to use the
client-side library to issue commands to the service API? Since Windows
programs can issue commands to the YouTube API, and since neither Google
Play Services or the YouTube app are on Windows, the service API gets
used by the Windows software. Not only can Windows programs access the
service API, so can web sites (so they can present YouTube videos at
their site). See https://developers.google.com/youtube/v3/. Present
whatever UI you want for your custom player while accessing content from
YouTube using the service API.

I've seen several times where NewPipe is listed as ad-free. That might
only apply to the app itself. At one time, if you use a video stream
capture tool (e.g., Jaksta or Applian Replay Media Capture), it would
recognize separate video streams: the movie stream would get halted to
play another stream for the in-movie ads. A stream capture tool would
snag the streams separately so you could capture the movie without any
ads. As I recall, Google changed that (I know other sites did) where
they merged the ads into one stream. Since there was only one stream,
you got stuck with the ads in the captured movie. One of the features
of NewPipe is offline watching of a video. That means capturing the
video. There are TONS of web browser extensions or proxies that can
capture streamed video on Windows. I gave up on extensions and paid for
a more robust and highly maintained proxy - which also means it will
capture the stream as fast as the server will deliver plus I don't need
to leave the web browser (or whatever client connected to the stream)
constantly loaded. A 4 hour movie probably takes 10 minutes to capture
and I can be doing other stuff with the web browser or even close it
during the capture. I know lots of other users employ extensions in
their web browsers to capture media streams (mostly from Youtube).
However, with in-movie ads where the movie and ad streams are merged, no
capture tool is going to avoid the in-movie ads. They can still perform
separate capture of separate streams, like when the movie and ads are
different streams.
VanguardLH
2018-01-04 20:20:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by VanguardLH
You mentioned AirDroid but that doesn't need an Android emulator to run
on Windows. In fact, the point of using Airdroid on Windows is to bring
over the phone's screen. That lets you manipulate your phone using your
PC, like taking call on your PC. It's also easier texting on a real
keyboard on the PC.
Well, said another way, you don't need an Android emulator on your
Windows host if all you want to do is see and use apps on your Android
phone but on your Windows host. Enable USB Debug Mode, plug the phone
into a USB port, and AirDroid running on your Windows host can see the
phone. You can then use the AirDroid UI to use phone apps. You don't
need to root your phone, either, to use AirDroid (requires the AirMirror
plug-in on the phone and USB Debugging to send/receive data to the
AirDroid program on the Windows PC).

There are similar Windows programs to bring the phone's screen to the
Windows host but I decided on AirDroid. It worked well. The apps were
running on the native platform (hardware+OS) for which they were
designed at at full speed (not inside an emulator). I eventually
dropped AirDroid because my Android smartphone sits on my desk where is
my Windows host. I could see the apps inside of AirDroid running on my
Windows host or I could just pick up the smartphone and use it. Was
simpler to just pick up the phone to use it. There is a web interface
using AirDroid so you could be on any host running a web browser to
access your Android phone wherever it happens to be. Instead of
installing software on your Windows PC, you use whatever web browser is
already on it. I suspect a client app must be installed on the phone so
the web service can access the phone. Obviously response will be
dictated on the Internet access speed the phone has at the time. The
USB connection was always fast.
Joe Scotch
2018-01-05 03:08:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by VanguardLH
There are similar Windows programs to bring the phone's screen to the
Windows host but I decided on AirDroid. It worked well.
I tried *all* the possible solutions, from Kies to AirDroid, but what I
ended up using, which works for me, is this:

a. I rooted the phone using KingoRoot (because the USB port is broken so
the phone can never be tethered successfully).

b. I put F-Droid "FTP Server (Free) on it (which has a payware knockoff on
Google Play) after testing *all* (and I mean all) the FTP servers on
Android (dozens - maybe even two score).

c. I "can" use the Windows networking URL "ftp://192.168.1.2:2121" but I've
found out, over the years, that WinSCP and then FileZilla were far more
reliable than Windows in the situation where I turn on and off the FTP
server and I come back and re-use an old connection.

Windows file explorer just screws up completely in those circumstances,
where both WinSCP and FileZilla work fine (so it's just Windows screwing
up).

Since the phone is rooted, I copy the HOSTS file easily from Windows to
Android, and since all the phones in the LAN have the FTP server and App
Backup & Restore freeware, I easily copy any APK from one phone to another
so that I can install them even though I myself don't have Google Play or
anything Google on my phone that I could delete as root.
Joe Scotch
2018-01-05 03:08:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by VanguardLH
You mentioned AirDroid but that doesn't need an Android emulator to run
on Windows. In fact, the point of using Airdroid on Windows is to bring
over the phone's screen. That lets you manipulate your phone using your
PC, like taking call on your PC. It's also easier texting on a real
keyboard on the PC.
I agree with you in that you've convinced me that there really isn't much
on Android that isn't already on Windows.

About the only thing I can say, interestingly enough, is that the
functionality of New Pipe isn't yet on Windows.

The functionality of New Pipe is on Windows in multiple pieces, but not in
a single app (as far as anyone knows).
Post by VanguardLH
For NewPipe, "Lightweight YouTube frontend that's supposed to be used
without the proprietary YouTube-API or any of Google's (proprietary)
play-services. NewPipe only parses the YouTube website in order to gain
the information it needs".
I agree that seems to be what it does. NewPipe uses the public API.

I think that's why Google hasn't shut them down, since it would be simple
for Google to read the New Pipe source code and then just change things on
the Google side so that New Pipe fails to work.
Post by VanguardLH
Screen scraping or element parsing is an
iffy method to interface to a web site.
That's probably true. But it has been working for years now.
And Google certainly knows about it and can read the source code.
And Google certainly knows how many hits they get from new pipe users.
Post by VanguardLH
It requires the underlying
program or site to not change.
Yup.
Post by VanguardLH
Google will keep changing their services
which means NewPipe has to catch up.
I've been using New Pipe for years, so, they've been keeping up.
Post by VanguardLH
I ran into the same situation with
other screen scraper or element parsing software: the moment the source
changes, users are dead until the author gets around to making a fix
which could be hours or many days or weeks.
Yup. Look at how Google killed that free phone app years ago?
Was it "Viber"? I forget which app it was, but a single change in the API
by Google killed their business model (as I recall).
Post by VanguardLH
When something changes at
YouTube, I've read where NewPipe users start complaining ""failed to
decrypt video URL signature" or other problems.
Oh. Hmmm.... you seem like an accurate poster so I believe you.
New Pipe has had hiccups (they call it beta after all).

And you have to realize there are *knock offs* to New Pipe.
Let's not confuse the knock offs with the original source-code app.
Post by VanguardLH
The same user
complaints appear when Google changes YouTube and then programs that use
youtube-dl (https://rg3.github.io/youtube-dl/) starts failing.
We have to remember that the URL above is to an app that I think *sucks* so
we have to keep in mind that there are different things which have the same
name.

This, for example, is the youtube downloader I use:
https://youtube-dl.org/downloads/latest/youtube-dl.exe
These, I think, suck.
https://github.com/MrS0m30n3/youtube-dl-gui
https://www.videohelp.com/software/youtube-dl-gui
https://bitbucket.org/qwertz19281/yaytdlfrontend/src
etc.

Likewise, this is the New Pipe opensource tool I use:
https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.schabi.newpipe/
These knockoff of the same name, I think suck:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hozidevrock.new.guidepip
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.adamistii.new.guidepp
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.newpips.netonline
etc.
Post by VanguardLH
How big is the development team for NewPipe? Just one guy or a
multi-member team that is worldwide (different timezones so different
waking periods)?
Don't know. Here is their web page:
https://newpipe.schabi.org/
Doesn't say much about "them" though. It's just about the app.
Post by VanguardLH
https://newpipe.schabi.org/
mentions "Team NewPipe".
Yes. I agree. Not much there about "them".

I can say I've been using it for a few years now (don't remember exactly
how long) and it's been fine - but I fell for the Google Play knockoffs for
a while and was disgusted with them before I realized that the only New
Pipe to use is the one we're talking about here.
Post by VanguardLH
Well, we all know Internet lets entities bloat
themselves. So just how many are on this "team"? From what I found in
their blog, "Christian Schabesberger, initiator and maintainer of
NewPipe". So it's just one guy.
Hmmm... you found good information that I didn't know.
Post by VanguardLH
Well, he works, eats, and sleeps so he
won't be available at all times to work on his app and being just one
guy means it'll take longer to analyze the change that makes his app
fail and time to implement a fix. Since his app is not distributed via
the Google Play Store, you won't be getting an automatic update if and
when a fixed version is available.
Those are red herrings. It's like saying you shouldn't buy a house because
the garage door spring can break on you. I don't even have Google Play on
my Android phone, and I removed *everything* that had anything to do with
Google (e.g., the Advertiser ID and Google Framework and anything I could).

So, an "automatic update" is the least of my issues.
Philosophically, I never upudate (did you watch Sideline go down the tubes,
or ES File Explorer?). The less you update, the better, IMHO
(philosophically).
Post by VanguardLH
Google's service APIs are free. Don't know why the author didn't design
a different UI to YouTube but continue to use the API interface which is
stable and well defined. No site publishes documentation on the
construction on their web pages (because the web page is the document).
I think Google "might" publish its API. For example, I once geolocated my
wife's phone simply by knowing here SSID, and then asking a developer to
run his code (each query is logged and recorded by Google to prevent
abuse), and it geolocated her instantly - just by sitting in our pajamas
from a computer.

So, it's a fact you can geolocate anyone if their phone has an SSID and if
you guess where they may be located (so you have the second SSID) since the
Google API won't give you the location of the phone unless you have two
SSIDs in proximity to each other.
Post by VanguardLH
"NewPipe is a YouTube player that does not use Google Play Services or
YouTube API". Hmm, so the author thinks they need to use the
client-side library to issue commands to the service API?
You seem to understand New Pipe far better than I do, since I only use it.
I'm not skeptical of it - but skepticism is good.

All I know is that it does what no other app does, but New Pipe,
unfortunately, only works on Android (not on iOS nor on Windows).
Post by VanguardLH
I've seen several times where NewPipe is listed as ad-free.
You must be careful here - because there are MANY apps that seem to have
taken the New Pipe sourcecode and did what they wanted with it, including
adding their own ads!

There was one called "AT NewPipe" which I can't find anymore on Google
Play, but I had it - and it sucked - and I didn't know that this was just a
knockoff.

So we have to be careful that the "real" New Pipe is what we're talking
about. The real New Pipe has no ads anywhere - which includes the videos
but which also includes the app ads. The knockoffs have ads and they break
a lot (from my experience with the AT New Pipe knockoff at least).

All in all, your information is fantastically factual, well researched,
based on intelligent assessment and logical.

I don't really see, given I'm similar to you, why you seem to suspect what
I seem to love, but maybe it just boils down to the fact that your
suspicions will eventually be borne out to be true.
Joe Scotch
2018-01-05 03:16:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
https://youtube-dl.org/downloads/latest/youtube-dl.exe
These, I think, suck.
https://github.com/MrS0m30n3/youtube-dl-gui
https://www.videohelp.com/software/youtube-dl-gui
https://bitbucket.org/qwertz19281/yaytdlfrontend/src
etc.
https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.schabi.newpipe/
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id m.hozidevrock.new.guidepip
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id m.adamistii.new.guidepp
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id m.newpips.netonline
etc.
There is a point in the above list that the immense cost of freeware is not
so much in the cost of learning how to use the one good one that works, but
in all the costs involved in testing and then throwing away the ones that
failed.

That's why reviews are sometimes good - but only when the *same* apps (such
as Nox or Bluestack) keep coming out on top (which is, sadly, rarely the
case - which tells us that the reviews have a problem).

It's also why *asking* here is almost always a good idea, even if we've
read the reviews (e.g., Bluestacks seems to come out above VirtualBox).

The cost in freeware, I posit, is in the mistakes.
Andy Burns
2018-01-05 10:13:58 UTC
Permalink
the functionality of New Pipe isn't yet on Windows.
What is missing? Just the ad-blocking?

On Windows with ABP or uBlock installed, I never see them, in fact it
wasn't until I used the Android youtube app that I realised ads before
or during youtube videos even existed.
Joe Scotch
2018-01-06 05:18:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Burns
the functionality of New Pipe isn't yet on Windows.
What is missing? Just the ad-blocking?
On Windows with ABP or uBlock installed, I never see them, in fact it
wasn't until I used the Android youtube app that I realised ads before
or during youtube videos even existed.
That's a good question, which is valid, and which I appreciate.

What is missing?

With the "real" New Pipe (the one from F-Droid), you get this:
https://newpipe.schabi.org/
* Simple way to watch videos
* Extended privacy (does not use the YouTube API nor Google Play Services)
* Background player (choose our player or any other player)
* Subscriptions (never miss new content)
* Open Source (it's not a secret how it works)
* Download media (download the audio or the video)
* History (go back in time and enjoy your favorites again0
* Free (no in-app purchases, no ads either)

When you click on each description, you get more details such as:
* Extended privacy
NewPipe does not use the YouTube API nor the Google Play Services.
This means that we do not share any data except the video URL with
YouTube or Google. Also the app does not save any data from you or
use services that analyze your usage behavior.
* Background player
(skipping stuff) we only download the audio so you don't waste data.
* Download Media
(skipping stuff) the app offers different file formats and resolutions
* Subscriptions
(skipping stuff) subscriptions are saved locally without a Google account
* Video Pop-Up
Want to check your emails while watching a video. No problem.
With the pop-up mode you can do whatever you want and keep watching.
The pop up is movable and resizable- it won't be in your way. We promise.
* 4K Support
Up to 4K and 50fps but also fits normal phones with any resolution
* Open Source
How it works is not a secret.
NewPipe does not use the YouTube API nor the Google Play Services.
This is one reason the app is free of proprietary software.

Notice one thing important to me, which is privacy. As you know, I don't
have Google Play on my Android phone, nor Google Framework updates, nor
anything that says Google that I could delete (I'm rooted).

So, of course, YouTube doesn't work for me, and there is no advertiser ID
on my phone, and no accounts for *anything* (it's a rule with me that I
never log into anything ever, on a phone).

So, for me, New Pipe is *perfect*.

Anyway, that doesn't answer your question - but what we can do to answer
your question is look at what Google says is the value of YouTube Red.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YouTube_Red
"It provides advertising-free streaming of all videos
hosted by YouTube, offline play and background playback
of videos on mobile devices, access to advertising-free music
streaming through Google Play Music, and access to "YouTube Red
Original" series and films."

I'm not sure what a "YouTube Red Original" is, but other than that, doesn't
New Pipe do what YouTube Red does? And how much is YouTube Red?

This article says that, over a five-year period, you'll pay $600 for
YouTube Red, which is an entire really nice Android phone!
https://www.pcmag.com/article/355611/youtube-red-vs-youtube-tv-whats-the-difference
Joe Scotch
2018-01-06 05:25:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
* Extended privacy
NewPipe does not use the YouTube API nor the Google Play Services.
This means that we do not share any data except the video URL with
YouTube or Google. Also the app does not save any data from you or
use services that analyze your usage behavior.
I just noticed they said they don't share "any" data with Google other than
the URL.

Do you think that means they don't even share your IP address?

Can NewPipe really be that good from a privacy-from-Google standpoint?

Or do we just assume our IP address *is* shared with Google?
VanguardLH
2018-01-06 09:00:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
Post by Joe Scotch
* Extended privacy
NewPipe does not use the YouTube API nor the Google Play Services.
This means that we do not share any data except the video URL with
YouTube or Google. Also the app does not save any data from you or
use services that analyze your usage behavior.
I just noticed they said they don't share "any" data with Google other
than the URL. Do you think that means they don't even share your IP
address? Can NewPipe really be that good from a privacy-from-Google
standpoint? Or do we just assume our IP address *is* shared with
Google?
NewPipe is not running some server as a proxy (e.g., Opera with their
pseudo-VPN or Google with their data saving feature in their mobile
Chrome web browser). Your endpoint host is connecting to YouTube. Any
host to which you connect *must* know your IP address. Even if you use
a VPN service, the VPN provider must know your IP address (and to where
you request them to connect - so they could track your web surfing if
they wanted or were forced).

NewPipe is just an app, not an anonymizing proxy server. When you use a
web browser to go to, say, intel.com then that site's server knows your
IP address. It's necessary for them to know where to send an
acknowledge for the connection request, do the SSL handshaking, and to
return the data your client requested.

Despite the vague description of this app, it is stll a web client, just
like a web browser. It connects to the Youtube site, scrapes the screen
or parses elements out of the web page (document) delivered by their
server, and then presents its own custom UI that you see. Just like a
web browser, this web client still connects to Youtube which means
Youtube knows your IP address - unless you configure your Android device
to use a VPN or some anonymizing proxy but Youtube will still see the IP
address of the exit point of the VPN or for the anonymizing proxy (and
there are blacklists of those which means a site may ban you from
connecting to them from those services).

They have to give the URL you requested to YouTube so YouTube knows
*WHAT* to deliver back to you via NewPipe. They aren't involved in the
network connection. They rely on the network API provided by the OS,
and the OS is going to establish the connection to YouTube. That means
YouTube knows the IP address of your Android device so, again, YouTube
knows *WHERE* to send back the data that you requested.

It's just an app.
Joe Scotch
2018-01-06 17:13:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by VanguardLH
NewPipe is not running some server as a proxy
I didn't think so, but then they said they don't "share" anything with
Google except the URL. I guess there are variations of "nothing else" here,
because I too always figured Google had my IP address.
Post by VanguardLH
NewPipe is just an app, not an anonymizing proxy server.
I don't disagree - but there's that sentence that says the only thing they
share with Google is the URL.

So it's not clear in their words that they also "share" your IP address
(which I had assumed they did, all along).
Post by VanguardLH
Despite the vague description of this app, it is stll a web client, just
like a web browser. It connects to the Youtube site, scrapes the screen
or parses elements out of the web page (document) delivered by their
server, and then presents its own custom UI that you see.
This description makes sense.
Post by VanguardLH
Just like a
web browser, this web client still connects to Youtube which means
Youtube knows your IP address - unless you configure your Android device
to use a VPN
Let's keep VPN or proxies out of this as that's just a minor complexity.

I agree with you that they *must* "share" you IP address and URL.
How can they not?

As you said, they're not a central proxy server (AFAIK).
Post by VanguardLH
They have to give the URL you requested to YouTube so YouTube knows
*WHAT* to deliver back to you via NewPipe. They aren't involved in the
network connection.
I guess that's how they get away with saying they only "share" the URL,
since they're "not involved in the network connection".

They should be more clear on that because it's not obvious to all.
Post by VanguardLH
It's just an app.
Yup. Thanks. It's not a proxy (and I had never thought it was).
They confused me by that "we never share anything but the URL" stuff.
Joe Scotch
2018-01-06 17:20:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
They confused me by that "we never share anything but the URL" stuff.
F-Droid NewPipe really should say something like:
* Google never sees anything from you other than your IP address & the URL.

That is, Google doesn't see your account name (because it doesn't exist),
nor your subscriptions (because they're stored locally), nor your history
(per se, unless Google stores it on their servers - which they almost
certainly do but based on your IP address).
VanguardLH
2018-01-06 23:02:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
So it's not clear in their words that they also "share" your IP address
(which I had assumed they did, all along).
They don't have your IP address to share or not share it. They didn't
create it. They don't manage it. They don't care what is your IP
address. Their app isn't what negotiates your OS with a DHCP server to
obtain a dynamic IP address nor is their app involved in the OS
configuration for a static IP address. They cannot share what they
never created, don't manage, and don't care about. Their app is not
involved at the network level.

Their app operates at the Application level issuing system API calls to
perform high-level networking functions. In the 4-layer DARPA
networking model, their app operates at the Application level, not at
the Transport, Internet, or Network Interface levels. In the 7-layer
OSI networking model, the lowest their app might be involved is at the
Presentation level (not a user-visible GUI but charset encoding,
encryption, etc regarding the data construction) but most likely is
involved only at the Application level. The OS and its support libs
handle the networking. The app isn't involved in all that.

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc958821.aspx
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model

https://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2307006,00.asp
https://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2307007,00.asp
Joe Scotch
2018-01-07 03:33:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by VanguardLH
They don't have your IP address to share or not share it.
I understand what you're explaining, which is that the network is separate.

All that matters to me, from a privacy standpoint, is only what the NewPipe
people get and what Google get by way of my information.

Am I correct that the NewPipe site gets nothing whatsoever when you
download or watch a movie - but Google gets both your URL and IP address
but that's it for Google.

BTW, for Windows syntax for the youtube-dl.exe, here is the manpage:
http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/trusty/man1/youtube-dl.1.html

These are some common examples:

1. To extract the audio from a video as MP3:
youtube-dl.exe -x --audio-format mp3 --audio-quality 0 URL

2. To extract the audio from a video as M4A:
youtube-dl.exe -f 140 URL

3. To download the video in whatever format it's already in:
youtube-dl.exe URL

4. To download the video as an MP4:
youtube-dl.exe -f 18 URL

5. To download videos based on a file containing a list of URLs:
youtube-dl.exe -citw -a MyListOfUrls.txt
WARNING: --title is deprecated.
Use -o "%(title)s-%(id)s.%(ext)s" instead.

youtube-dl.exe -ciwo "%(title)s.%(ext)s" -a MyListOfUrls.txt

Example:
youtube-dl.exe -o "c:\myvideos\%%(title)s-%%(id)s.%%(ext)s" -f best




Reference: https://github.com/rg3/youtube-dl#output-template-examples

There are over a thousands supported sites (far more than just YouTube):
https://rg3.github.io/youtube-dl/supportedsites.html
Andy Burns
2018-01-07 11:18:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
Am I correct that the NewPipe site gets nothing whatsoever when you
download or watch a movie - but Google gets both your URL and IP address
but that's it for Google.
Should be, assuming newpipe doesn't leak any information, google could
guess which content producers you're interested in, even if they don't
know you're 'subscribed' to them.

Are you sure you're not overdoing it on effort taken up by privacy paranoia?
Joe Scotch
2018-01-07 20:46:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Burns
Are you sure you're not overdoing it on effort taken up by privacy paranoia?
Privacy is like washing your Romaine lettuce before you use it.
http://www.ntd.tv/2018/01/04/consumer-reports-claims-romaine-lettuce-linked-to-lethal-us-canada-e-coli-outbreak/

Does every head of lettuce have E Coli contamination.
Nope.

But some do.
https://www.cdc.gov/ecoli/2011/romaine-lettace-3-23-12.html

What's so hard about "thinking" first and washing before consuming lettuce?

Same with privacy. Think first. Wash it. Then consume it.
Paul
2018-01-08 02:05:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
Privacy is like washing your Romaine lettuce before you use it.
http://www.ntd.tv/2018/01/04/consumer-reports-claims-romaine-lettuce-linked-to-lethal-us-canada-e-coli-outbreak/
...Using tap water with Escherichia Coli in it.

The browsers you're using, you have no idea what's
inside them, or how safe they are. The same goes
for the VPNs or the software you're using with
those VPNs.

If you wrote the software yourself, maybe you'd have good reason
to be smug. But as long as a dozen people grab a copy of Chrome,
change two lines of code, and put their name on it and make
a dozen "new" browsers, what's up with that ?

I think the Chromium tree I have on the other machine,
has 600,000 files on it. Have all the browser derivative people,
actually even opened those files ? How many of those files could
you read per day ?

That's why I find this hobby of yours to be largely delusional.

You could attempt to study the network traffic... assuming
you knew how to break the SSL/TLS and render the content in
plaintext before it's sent. I understand that is doable, but
it's outside my pay scale to do it.

Paul
Andy Burns
2018-01-08 04:36:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
You could attempt to study the network traffic... assuming
you knew how to break the SSL/TLS and render the content in
plaintext before it's sent. I understand that is doable
I've never got round to seeing if this method still works

<https://jimshaver.net/2015/02/11/decrypting-tls-browser-traffic-with-wireshark-the-easy-way/>
Paul
2018-01-08 07:36:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Burns
Post by Paul
You could attempt to study the network traffic... assuming
you knew how to break the SSL/TLS and render the content in
plaintext before it's sent. I understand that is doable
I've never got round to seeing if this method still works
<https://jimshaver.net/2015/02/11/decrypting-tls-browser-traffic-with-wireshark-the-easy-way/>
That's a handy trick I'm going to have to try out
one of these days. Noted. And thanks.

Paul
Wolf K
2018-01-07 13:06:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
Post by VanguardLH
They don't have your IP address to share or not share it.
I understand what you're explaining, which is that the network is separate.
All that matters to me, from a privacy standpoint, is only what the NewPipe
people get and what Google get by way of my information.
Am I correct that the NewPipe site gets nothing whatsoever when you
download or watch a movie
No, they (or the proxy server between them and you) has your IP, else
you won't get the movie. And to serve up the movie you're watching, they
must pass one your request, which translates into some ID for that
movie. So....
Post by Joe Scotch
but Google gets both your URL and IP address
but that's it for Google.
[...]
And for any other search engine. It's what they do with that data that
varies.

HTH
--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"The next conference for the time travel design team will be held two
weeks ago."
Joe Scotch
2018-01-07 20:46:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wolf K
No, they (or the proxy server between them and you) has your IP, else
you won't get the movie. And to serve up the movie you're watching, they
must pass one your request, which translates into some ID for that
movie. So....
Thanks for the confirmation.

In summary, it seems that New Pipe is a perfectly good tool for both
privacy and YouTube Red functionality (you get a free $600 Android phone
every five years if you use NewPipe instead of YouTube Red).

To give back to the team with tribal knowledge, I can agree with anyone who
said that Android emulation using VirtualBox is utterly miserable. It's not
so much that it's far slower than Ubuntu emulation on Windows inside of
VirtualBox - but the MOUSE INTEGRATION in the Android emulation in
VirtualBox is utterly horrid. It's just not usable.

Sure, it works - but it takes five to ten times as many clicks and
movements of the mouse than it should take, especially on scrolled forms
and on/off switches where the arbitrary landing of the mouse constantly
hits the wrong switch.

I have a query over on the VirtualBox forum asking if this is just me and
my setup - so maybe there's a simple solution - but it's not obvious to me
yet.

Meanwhile, the power of the suggested use of AdBlock has been demonstrated
by me in that it was easy to install in a Windows browser by way of
comparison that it's not funny, and it instantly blocked all the "in-video"
YouTube ads.

Combined with the power of the youtube-dl.exe command line executable, the
Windows user gets the two major functionalities that New Pipe has:
1. They get no ads with AdBlock
2. They download and extract with Youtube-dl.exe

Certainly, on Windows, those two solutions are easier than running New Pipe
in emulation on Windows (although I didn't try Bluestack because I try to
make general solutions work and don't often give up on them too soon).

The one nagging issue is that the youtube-dl.exe doesn't have, IMHO, any
decent GUI that doesn't require either Java or Python, neither of which do
I want to install on my Windows system.

So if anyone out there in the tribe knows of a YouTube-dl.exe GUI that is
Python-free and Java-free, we will all benefit from what you know.
VanguardLH
2018-01-10 18:13:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wolf K
No, they (or the proxy server between them and you) has your IP, else
you won't get the movie. And to serve up the movie you're watching, they
must pass one your request, which translates into some ID for that
movie. So....
Just WHERE do you find NewPipe described as a proxy service provider?
Their own description is as a local client that scrapes the web pages
and parses elements out of them. There is no description of a proxy.

https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.schabi.newpipe/
https://f-droid.org/wiki/page/org.schabi.newpipe
"NewPipe only parses the YouTube website in order to gain the
information it needs."

From their description, NewPipe is no different than any other
webcentric client, like a lightweight web browser, but has a special
purpose of parsing the web pages it retrieves from Youtube (rather than
use Google's API - which does NOT mandate tracking or even logging in).
The author has yet to qualify why using the YouTube API is more evil
than his app parsing Youtube's pages (which is unreliable and will fail
when Google changes elements in their pages or the nav between them).

Screen scrapers or web page parses are unreliable. This isn't the first
author that tried this very old scheme (which was primarily used when
the service provide an API or target program did not provide a CLI).
Operation is dependent on the site not changes the critical content of
the documents (web pages) that it delivers. Yeah, like that never
happens at any Google site, uh huh.

NewPipe is just a webcentric frontend app. It is NOT a proxy service.
In fact, only the element parsing of the web page delivered by Youtube
is unique to this app. All thei video functions are borrowed from other
open source projects. It is a *player* that uses document parsing
(rather than use the Youtube API).

https://newpipe.schabi.org/
"without annoying ads"

Never seen any (of THOSE type of "page ads" which are NOT within the
video stream). I use a web browser (Firefox) to visit Youtube. uBlock
Origin is used in Firefox (on my Android phone and in both Firefox and
Google Chrome on my desktop PC) to get rid of page ad content not just
at YouTube but elsewhere, too. Inline/instream ads (part of the video
stream) will NOT be eliminated by NewPipe or any adblocker in a web
browser nor by NewPipe that is merely displaying the video stream that
Youtube found for that client's request.

Where do *you* see that NewPipe is operating a proxy server?
VanguardLH
2018-01-10 18:16:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
All that matters to me, from a privacy standpoint, is only what the NewPipe
people get and what Google get by way of my information.
EVERY webcentric program you run results in the other endpoint knowing
your IP address. Even if you use a VPN, the VPN provider knows your IP
address. Your web browser, e-mail client, telnet client, FTP client,
VPN client, and anything else connecting out results in the target
server getting your IP address.

All the NewPipe site can see, and only if you download from their site,
is your IP address when you downloaded their file. Obviously they need
your IP address to know where to deliver the file.
Post by Joe Scotch
Am I correct that the NewPipe site gets nothing whatsoever
There is no "NewPipe site" regarding your traffic. The site is to only
provide a download of a file (NewPipe). Read the F-Droid and author's
site and even the GitHub repository. You will find NO MENTION of any
proxy service operated by NewPipe. It is just a local client, like any
other player. It parses the web pages delivered by Youtube and then
retrieves the stream that Youtube found. The parsing code is the
author's work in this app. The player components are borrowed from
other open source projects.
Char Jackson
2018-01-10 21:40:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by VanguardLH
Post by Joe Scotch
All that matters to me, from a privacy standpoint, is only what the NewPipe
people get and what Google get by way of my information.
EVERY webcentric program you run results in the other endpoint knowing
your IP address. Even if you use a VPN, the VPN provider knows your IP
address. Your web browser, e-mail client, telnet client, FTP client,
VPN client, and anything else connecting out results in the target
server getting your IP address.
I know you know this topic, but I don't think it was written clearly
enough above, which could lead to some confusion. The following is more
or less directed to the OP.

***
Without a VPN or proxy:
The remote endpoint obviously needs to know your IP address so that it
can reply to you.

You send a request directly to the remote endpoint; the remote endpoint
sends a response directly to you.

***
With a VPN or proxy:
The VPN or proxy provider needs to know your IP address, but the remote
endpoint only needs to know the VPN or proxy IP.

You attempt to send a request to a remote endpoint. The request is
intercepted and sent to the VPN or proxy instead. On your behalf, the
VPN or proxy sends a separate request to the remote endpoint. The remote
endpoint responds back to the VPN or proxy, and in turn, the VPN or
proxy responds back to you.

***
I lump VPN and proxy together because when they're used this way, they
are almost identical to each other. If the goal is to remain anonymous
to the remote endpoint, then VPN and proxy are indeed identical, and
that seems to be more and more how people are looking at a VPN. That's
not at all the traditional use or purpose of a VPN, but it's becoming a
popular new use case in recent years.
David B.
2018-01-10 23:27:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Char Jackson
Post by VanguardLH
Post by Joe Scotch
All that matters to me, from a privacy standpoint, is only what the NewPipe
people get and what Google get by way of my information.
EVERY webcentric program you run results in the other endpoint knowing
your IP address. Even if you use a VPN, the VPN provider knows your IP
address. Your web browser, e-mail client, telnet client, FTP client,
VPN client, and anything else connecting out results in the target
server getting your IP address.
I know you know this topic, but I don't think it was written clearly
enough above, which could lead to some confusion. The following is more
or less directed to the OP.
***
The remote endpoint obviously needs to know your IP address so that it
can reply to you.
You send a request directly to the remote endpoint; the remote endpoint
sends a response directly to you.
***
The VPN or proxy provider needs to know your IP address, but the remote
endpoint only needs to know the VPN or proxy IP.
You attempt to send a request to a remote endpoint. The request is
intercepted and sent to the VPN or proxy instead. On your behalf, the
VPN or proxy sends a separate request to the remote endpoint. The remote
endpoint responds back to the VPN or proxy, and in turn, the VPN or
proxy responds back to you.
***
I lump VPN and proxy together because when they're used this way, they
are almost identical to each other. If the goal is to remain anonymous
to the remote endpoint, then VPN and proxy are indeed identical, and
that seems to be more and more how people are looking at a VPN. That's
not at all the traditional use or purpose of a VPN, but it's becoming a
popular new use case in recent years.
That is *EXACTLY* as *I* see it! :-)
--
“Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick
themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened.” (Winston S.
Churchill)
Diesel
2018-01-12 04:08:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by David B.
Post by Char Jackson
Post by VanguardLH
Post by Joe Scotch
All that matters to me, from a privacy standpoint, is only what
the NewPipe people get and what Google get by way of my
information.
EVERY webcentric program you run results in the other endpoint
knowing your IP address. Even if you use a VPN, the VPN
provider knows your IP address. Your web browser, e-mail
client, telnet client, FTP client, VPN client, and anything else
connecting out results in the target server getting your IP
address.
I know you know this topic, but I don't think it was written
clearly enough above, which could lead to some confusion. The
following is more or less directed to the OP.
***
The remote endpoint obviously needs to know your IP address so
that it can reply to you.
You send a request directly to the remote endpoint; the remote
endpoint sends a response directly to you.
***
The VPN or proxy provider needs to know your IP address, but the
remote endpoint only needs to know the VPN or proxy IP.
You attempt to send a request to a remote endpoint. The request
is intercepted and sent to the VPN or proxy instead. On your
behalf, the VPN or proxy sends a separate request to the remote
endpoint. The remote endpoint responds back to the VPN or proxy,
and in turn, the VPN or proxy responds back to you.
***
I lump VPN and proxy together because when they're used this way,
they are almost identical to each other. If the goal is to remain
anonymous to the remote endpoint, then VPN and proxy are indeed
identical, and that seems to be more and more how people are
looking at a VPN. That's not at all the traditional use or
purpose of a VPN, but it's becoming a popular new use case in
recent years.
That is *EXACTLY* as *I* see it! :-)
What exactly do you see? In your own words, if you can.
I sniff an effort to hijack a thread... But, I'll humour you if you
can answer my question.
--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit here:
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
===================================================
Don't let the computer bugs bite!
Jesper Kaas
2018-01-02 05:39:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
Just to clarify ...
My only concern at this point in time is *how* to run an Android APK on
Windows - which is a valid technical question.
Seems to me anyone who runs Windows who has an Android smart phone "might"
want to know how to run those apps on Windows - just because they may also
have an app they like that is only on Android.
I have tried Bluestack a few years ago. It worked more or less OK. But
it was running something in the background from time to time using 25%
CPU even when no APK was running. Did not like that, so I removed it.
--
Jesper Kaas - ***@neindanke.online.no
Ant
2018-01-02 22:09:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jesper Kaas
Post by Joe Scotch
Just to clarify ...
My only concern at this point in time is *how* to run an Android APK on
Windows - which is a valid technical question.
Seems to me anyone who runs Windows who has an Android smart phone "might"
want to know how to run those apps on Windows - just because they may also
have an app they like that is only on Android.
I have tried Bluestack a few years ago. It worked more or less OK. But
it was running something in the background from time to time using 25%
CPU even when no APK was running. Did not like that, so I removed it.
BlueStack was decent for me too for quick tests.
--
:) New Yr.
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
| |o o| | ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and URL/link.
\ _ /
( )
Joe Scotch
2018-01-03 19:14:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jesper Kaas
I have tried Bluestack a few years ago. It worked more or less OK. But
it was running something in the background from time to time using 25%
CPU even when no APK was running. Did not like that, so I removed it.
Thanks for helping out on the on-topic question at hand whose answers will
benefit all Windows users if they also want to have Android apps.

It looks like the top three Android emulation choices might be.

1. First just try to get an Android VM working
2. If that fails, try Nox or BlueStack
3. If those fail (they probably won't) - then try the rest in turn.

Thanks for the advice because the most expensive part of freeware is
testing all of them just to find the ones that work best.
Ant
2018-01-03 23:20:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
Post by Jesper Kaas
I have tried Bluestack a few years ago. It worked more or less OK. But
it was running something in the background from time to time using 25%
CPU even when no APK was running. Did not like that, so I removed it.
Thanks for helping out on the on-topic question at hand whose answers will
benefit all Windows users if they also want to have Android apps.
It looks like the top three Android emulation choices might be.
1. First just try to get an Android VM working
2. If that fails, try Nox or BlueStack
3. If those fail (they probably won't) - then try the rest in turn.
Thanks for the advice because the most expensive part of freeware is
testing all of them just to find the ones that work best.
In 2016, I did this too. I don't remember using Nox. I couldn't get
Android VM to work well in both VirtualBox and VMware Workstation.
BlueStack was the best one that worked for me.
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Joe Scotch
2018-01-04 02:53:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ant
In 2016, I did this too. I don't remember using Nox. I couldn't get
Android VM to work well in both VirtualBox and VMware Workstation.
BlueStack was the best one that worked for me.
At the moment, I have Android 7.1 Nougat running inside of Windows using
VirtualBox (which was already installed and running Linux & Windows).

Android isn't as nicely integrated into VirtualBox as is Linux though, so
without a tutorial, you'll be wasting too much time setting it up.

Even with a tutorial, they skip the steps I already did to set up
VirtualBox and they skip the steps to integrate the mouse, screenshots, and
clipboard.

For example, the guest additions iso won't load.
Loading Image...
Ant
2018-01-04 05:13:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
Post by Ant
In 2016, I did this too. I don't remember using Nox. I couldn't get
Android VM to work well in both VirtualBox and VMware Workstation.
BlueStack was the best one that worked for me.
At the moment, I have Android 7.1 Nougat running inside of Windows using
VirtualBox (which was already installed and running Linux & Windows).
Android isn't as nicely integrated into VirtualBox as is Linux though, so
without a tutorial, you'll be wasting too much time setting it up.
Even with a tutorial, they skip the steps I already did to set up
VirtualBox and they skip the steps to integrate the mouse, screenshots, and
clipboard.
For example, the guest additions iso won't load.
http://i.cubeupload.com/7nCcyp.jpg
Yep, it is not easy. :( It looks like it is still not easy. BlueStack is
still the best to me.
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Quote of the Week: "The world flatters the elephant and tramples on the ant." --Indian
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Joe Scotch
2018-01-04 14:31:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ant
Post by Joe Scotch
Even with a tutorial, they skip the steps I already did to set up
VirtualBox and they skip the steps to integrate the mouse, screenshots, and
clipboard.
For example, the guest additions iso won't load.
http://i.cubeupload.com/7nCcyp.jpg
Yep, it is not easy. :( It looks like it is still not easy. BlueStack is
still the best to me.
As I said, the huge expense of freeware is in the mistakes until you find a
good one.

I think BlueStacks would have been a better approach, but I had *thought*
that since I already have VirtualBox running with ubuntu, that it would be
*easy* to just add Android.

Sigh. If I don't get the VirtualBox Android to run well, I'll try BlueStack
next, and if that fails, then Nox.
Ant
2018-01-04 20:43:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
Post by Ant
Post by Joe Scotch
Even with a tutorial, they skip the steps I already did to set up
VirtualBox and they skip the steps to integrate the mouse, screenshots, and
clipboard.
For example, the guest additions iso won't load.
http://i.cubeupload.com/7nCcyp.jpg
Yep, it is not easy. :( It looks like it is still not easy. BlueStack is
still the best to me.
As I said, the huge expense of freeware is in the mistakes until you find a
good one.
I think BlueStacks would have been a better approach, but I had *thought*
that since I already have VirtualBox running with ubuntu, that it would be
*easy* to just add Android.
Sigh. If I don't get the VirtualBox Android to run well, I'll try BlueStack
next, and if that fails, then Nox.
Yeah, I gave up on Android VMs. I also thought it would be easy like
Linux and other OSes. Please kindly let us know your progress. ;)
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Joe Scotch
2018-01-04 14:31:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ant
BlueStack was the best one that worked for me.
This is a tutorial for Bluestack which I will try if I don't like running
the Android ISO inside of VirtualBox on Windows.
https://www.howtogeek.com/97920/how-to-run-android-apps-on-your-desktop-with-bluestacks/

Apparently BlueStack is faster than the way I'm doing it now.
Ant
2018-01-04 20:48:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
Post by Ant
BlueStack was the best one that worked for me.
This is a tutorial for Bluestack which I will try if I don't like running
the Android ISO inside of VirtualBox on Windows.
https://www.howtogeek.com/97920/how-to-run-android-apps-on-your-desktop-with-bluestacks/
Apparently BlueStack is faster than the way I'm doing it now.
Way faster and easier. Also, there are a few annoying things for free
users. It likes to install apps to make up the costs. :(
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Joe Scotch
2018-01-01 23:01:21 UTC
Permalink
Darklight
2018-01-04 11:09:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Scotch
What free Android emulator do *YOU* use on Windows for running F-Droid APKs?
In another thread, we found that nobody has ported a useful Android
suggested that Android emulation on Windows might work.
Is there an ad-free YouTube clone for Windows like NewPipe is for Android?
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/fLmXv99riaY
As many of us are ancient octogenarians, we've already tried almost every
emulator that ever existed by now - so - I simply ask one question here of
the people who *ALREADY* use Android emulation on Windows.
If you don't already use Android emulation, you probably won't be able to
answer the question I don't think.
However ...
If you do use Android emulation on Windows, what free emulator do you
recommend for running an F-Droid open-source tool such as New Pipe is?
https://f-droid.org/packages/org.schabi.newpipe/
(I will post the results of a RTFM in a followup but the question is not
what free emulators "exist" nor which are in the "top 10" lists - but which
free emulator *you* use that you like - and why).
What free Android emulator do *YOU* use on Windows for running F-Droid APKs?
Your better off installing it. That's if you have a laptop.

Install is as if you where planing on creating a dual boot system.

I can tell you from experience. On older laptops it makes windows look
and run like shit.

on how to install it youtube is your freind.
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