Discussion:
Unicomp Model-M a disaster
(too old to reply)
B00ze
2018-01-13 04:05:09 UTC
Permalink
Good day all.

I love the Model M keyboard, and have several PS/2 ones. I also have 2
Unicomp USB Model M's. Now, I haven't tried the other one of those that
I have (without Windows Keys) but the one I am using now is a DISASTER!
I do not know what they did with their USB controller, but it is
horrible. When I boot the PC, if I press any key too quickly (e.g. if I
do not wait 5 seconds) then the keyboard will lock-up. It makes it hard
to enter the BIOS. And if I put the computer to sleep, then 1/3rd to
2/3rds of the time, when I wake it with the keyboard, the keyboard
freezes. It gets weirder; when I wake the computer with the keyboard, I
can hear Windows "re-discover" the keyboard (you can hear the new USB
device sound,) the NumLock light does not turn back on until that sound
plays, but more often than not, the keyboard doesn't re-load properly
and becomes unusable.

Anyone have a Unicomp USB keyboard? How does it work for you?

I'm already thinking of getting a Mechanical Keyboard, but haven't found
one that LOOKS like the Model-M (i.e. BIG).

Thank you.
Best Regards,
--
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! (o o) Member:David-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society
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Andy Burns
2018-01-13 09:51:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by B00ze
I love the Model M keyboard, and have several PS/2 ones. I also have 2
Unicomp USB Model M's.
I do not know what they did with their USB controller, but it is
horrible.
I'm already thinking of getting a Mechanical Keyboard, but haven't found
one that LOOKS like the Model-M (i.e. BIG).
Why not use of of your PS/2 model M keyboards?
Just get the right USB adapter that can supply the hefty power
requirement, IME the one that works looks like this

<Loading Image...>

I've also heard people having success using a KVM that has PS/2 ports
with USB ports
Roger Blake
2018-01-13 14:31:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by B00ze
Anyone have a Unicomp USB keyboard? How does it work for you?
My father-in-law bought one because the keyboard that came with his new
PC was awful. (Most of them ae.) It's been fine, he loves it. No issues,
though the feel is not quite as good as a real Model M, which is what
I use with a PS2-USB adapter.
Post by B00ze
I'm already thinking of getting a Mechanical Keyboard, but haven't found
one that LOOKS like the Model-M (i.e. BIG).
I haven't put them next to each other, but his Unicomp looks to me to
be approximately the same size as the Model M.
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Mr. Man-wai Chang
2018-01-13 14:44:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by B00ze
Good day all.
I love the Model M keyboard, and have several PS/2 ones. I also have 2
Unicomp USB Model M's. Now, I haven't tried the other one of those that
I have (without Windows Keys) but the one I am using now is a DISASTER!
I do not know what they did with their USB controller, but it is
horrible. When I boot the PC, if I press any key too quickly (e.g. if I
do not wait 5 seconds) then the keyboard will lock-up. It makes it hard
to enter the BIOS. And if I put the computer to sleep, then 1/3rd to
2/3rds of the time, when I wake it with the keyboard, the keyboard
freezes. It gets weirder; when I wake the computer with the keyboard, I
can hear Windows "re-discover" the keyboard (you can hear the new USB
device sound,) the NumLock light does not turn back on until that sound
plays, but more often than not, the keyboard doesn't re-load properly
and becomes unusable.
Anyone have a Unicomp USB keyboard? How does it work for you?
I have bought one Unicomp and asked Unicomp to repair an older IBM Model
M. Both of them worked without USB issues. Your problem might be caused
by the red joy-mouse.
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T
2018-01-14 23:39:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by B00ze
Good day all.
I love the Model M keyboard, and have several PS/2 ones. I also have 2
Unicomp USB Model M's. Now, I haven't tried the other one of those that
I have (without Windows Keys) but the one I am using now is a DISASTER!
I do not know what they did with their USB controller, but it is
horrible. When I boot the PC, if I press any key too quickly (e.g. if I
do not wait 5 seconds) then the keyboard will lock-up. It makes it hard
to enter the BIOS. And if I put the computer to sleep, then 1/3rd to
2/3rds of the time, when I wake it with the keyboard, the keyboard
freezes. It gets weirder; when I wake the computer with the keyboard, I
can hear Windows "re-discover" the keyboard (you can hear the new USB
device sound,) the NumLock light does not turn back on until that sound
plays, but more often than not, the keyboard doesn't re-load properly
and becomes unusable.
Anyone have a Unicomp USB keyboard? How does it work for you?
I'm already thinking of getting a Mechanical Keyboard, but haven't found
one that LOOKS like the Model-M (i.e. BIG).
Thank you.
Best Regards,
Hi Booze,

I sell them and own one myself. I "ADORE" them.

The only issues I have come across is the spring under the space bar
on two units I sold.

A quick call to Unicomp at 859-233-2130 got both of them fixed.

It sounds like you got a bad unit. Call Unicomp. They will
make it right for you.

I am a very fast typist. I am a good 50% faster typing on a
Unicomp as it was meant to emulate the IBM Selectric typewriter.

Some of the el-cheap-o keyboards I have to use at customer
sites drive me around the bend. You can't tell one key
apart from another and you can't tell when you have depressed
a key. I wind up having to watch every key I press. It
is a pain in the neck (not my "exact" word) and severely
slows me down. Laptops are the worst.

So call Unicomp and get yours fixed and then start enjoying
using a decent keyboard for a change!

:-)

-T
Jason
2018-01-15 03:23:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by B00ze
Anyone have a Unicomp USB keyboard? How does it work for you?
I'm sorry you are having so much trouble. I have had one (a USB model M
with Windows keys and APL legends too) for a few years with no problems
whatsoever.
Wolf K
2018-01-15 13:58:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jason
Post by B00ze
Anyone have a Unicomp USB keyboard? How does it work for you?
I'm sorry you are having so much trouble. I have had one (a USB model M
with Windows keys and APL legends too) for a few years with no problems
whatsoever.
Ditto for other brands. On one box I used a PS/2 to USB dongle, no
problems with that either.

I buy keyboards by feel (primary) and price (secondary). Brand is
irrelevant in my experience.
--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"The next conference for the time travel design team will be held two
weeks ago."
B00ze
2018-01-16 16:57:25 UTC
Permalink
Good day all.

I rummaged into my keyboard box this weekend, hoping to find a $10 USB
keyboard to test, but no luck, all PS/2.

But I tried my other USB Unicomp, the one without the Windows Keys. That
one does NOT freeze-up when waking the computer from sleep, however, the
lights (NumLock,...) do NOT wake-up! So when the computer goes to sleep
the lights go out but the keyboard is still active. When I wake the PC,
the keyboard gets re-detected (I still find this behaviour strange) but
the lights stay out. If I then press CapsLock, well there you go,
NumLock turns on along with CapsLock. My Unicomp with the windows keys
doesn't have that problem. I wonder if they can ship me updated controllers.

I also tested with Windows 10: Lo and Behold, the Unicomp with windows
keys gets re-detected as before, but it does not freeze. Apparently
Windows 10 has better USB drivers than Windows 7. Don't get me wrong,
the keyboards work fine, EXCEPT when it comes to powering-up/sleep, then
they are a disaster.

Andy: Yeah, I even have a PS/2 port on my current motherboard lol, but I
bought these USB ones because everything's USB nowadays + all my PS/2
Model M's do not have the Windows key. I also have USB-PS2 adapters, but
many of those do not work, I haven't tried the ones I do have.

Roger: Yeah, the Unicomp ARE the same as Model-M's; what I am thinking
of is a Cherry-MX keyboard that does not come with a light-show, and
that is roughly the same shape as a Model-M. Removable key caps would be
appreciated (it's so easy to wash a Model M).

T: Yeah, I will open a ticket, maybe I can get updated controller boards.

Thanks all.

Let's see what I can get out of Unicomp...

Regards,
--
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! (o o) Member:David-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society
oO-( )-Oo "And yesterday the planet seemed to be going so well." -Dent
B00ze
2018-01-17 06:45:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by B00ze
T: Yeah, I will open a ticket, maybe I can get updated controller boards.
Bought 2 new updated controller boards, let's see how they fare once I
get them...
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! (o o) Member:David-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society
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B00ze
2018-05-02 02:44:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by B00ze
Post by B00ze
T: Yeah, I will open a ticket, maybe I can get updated controller boards.
Bought 2 new updated controller boards, let's see how they fare once I
get them...
For those who can still access the rest of this thread (for context):

I have finally taken the time to replace the v6.x controller boards for
my USB Unicomps with the v7.x controllers they sent me. The problem with
the keyboard totally freezing-up if I dared to touch it while the BIOS
was booting-up is resolved (Hurray!) The strange behaviour when waking
the computer from sleep is still there: Windows re-detects the keyboard,
as tho I had unplugged it while asleep, and sometimes it does not detect
it correctly so you're stuck on the logon screen. I tested with a cheap
Logitech keyboard, and it is definitively a Unicomp thing, there is no
re-detecting the keyboard on wake with the Logitech.

The bad news is that my older 101 keys Unicomp uses a different locking
mechanism for holding the controller board than my newer 103 keys, and I
am totally unable to make the controller connect to all of the
keyboard's signal lines, so some keys are always not working. I guess I
will have to buy some foam-tape and try to make the foam push the
flexible membrane harder against the PCB. I have asked Unicomp if they
can do anything for me but had not heard back in a week - I might have
to open a new ticket rather than open my old one. Will update this thread.

Regards,
--
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! (o o) Member:David-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society
oO-( )-Oo Despite the cost of living, it remains very popular.
B00ze
2018-05-04 05:18:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by B00ze
I have finally taken the time to replace the v6.x controller boards for
my USB Unicomps with the v7.x controllers they sent me. The problem with
the keyboard totally freezing-up if I dared to touch it while the BIOS
was booting-up is resolved (Hurray!) The strange behaviour when waking
the computer from sleep is still there: Windows re-detects the keyboard,
as tho I had unplugged it while asleep, and sometimes it does not detect
it correctly so you're stuck on the logon screen. I tested with a cheap
Logitech keyboard, and it is definitively a Unicomp thing, there is no
re-detecting the keyboard on wake with the Logitech.
The bad news is that my older 101 keys Unicomp uses a different locking
mechanism for holding the controller board than my newer 103 keys, and I
am totally unable to make the controller connect to all of the
keyboard's signal lines, so some keys are always not working. I guess I
will have to buy some foam-tape and try to make the foam push the
flexible membrane harder against the PCB. I have asked Unicomp if they
can do anything for me but had not heard back in a week - I might have
to open a new ticket rather than open my old one. Will update this thread.
Regards,
Unicomp is sending me a new foam pad. I will try to remove the old one
and place this one a little lower, so that contact is better with the
PCB. Will report back. Pretty happy with the new version 7 controller;
if this foam pad works, I will mark this thread as resolved and give a
hearty two thumbs up for Unicomp keyboards.

Best Regards,
--
! _\|/_ Sylvain / ***@hotmail.com
! (o o) Member:David-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society
oO-( )-Oo Data, ahh, I think Spot needs a litter box. -Troi
B00ze
2018-05-23 03:39:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by B00ze
Post by B00ze
I have finally taken the time to replace the v6.x controller boards for
my USB Unicomps with the v7.x controllers they sent me. The problem with
the keyboard totally freezing-up if I dared to touch it while the BIOS
was booting-up is resolved (Hurray!) The strange behaviour when waking
the computer from sleep is still there: Windows re-detects the keyboard,
as tho I had unplugged it while asleep, and sometimes it does not detect
it correctly so you're stuck on the logon screen. I tested with a cheap
Logitech keyboard, and it is definitively a Unicomp thing, there is no
re-detecting the keyboard on wake with the Logitech.
The bad news is that my older 101 keys Unicomp uses a different locking
mechanism for holding the controller board than my newer 103 keys, and I
am totally unable to make the controller connect to all of the
keyboard's signal lines, so some keys are always not working. I guess I
will have to buy some foam-tape and try to make the foam push the
flexible membrane harder against the PCB. I have asked Unicomp if they
can do anything for me but had not heard back in a week - I might have
to open a new ticket rather than open my old one. Will update this thread.
Regards,
Unicomp is sending me a new foam pad. I will try to remove the old one
and place this one a little lower, so that contact is better with the
PCB. Will report back. Pretty happy with the new version 7 controller;
if this foam pad works, I will mark this thread as resolved and give a
hearty two thumbs up for Unicomp keyboards.
Well, there is good and bad news. The new v7 controllers are much better
than previous versions, even tho they still do that weird thing when
coming out of sleep mode. And the new foam pad Unicomp sent worked
great, all the keys that were ever going to work were now working.
Unfortunately, I had used 100% alcohol to clean the traces on the
transparent plastic "membrane" earlier, trying to get better contact to
the controller board. This weekend, flipping the membrane over, I
discovered that I had totally removed some of the traces when I used the
alcohol; so some of the traces were "cut" and will never again make
contact with the controller board. So this keyboard is toast; my fault.
I offered to send it back to Unicomp instead of throwing it away but
have not heard back.

I'll just buy another one if I need a gaming keyboard with no Windows
keys. I don't expect my current Unicomp WITH Windows keys to ever stop
working, these keyboard are like tanks. Sorry it took me so long to
update this thread. Conclusion is: If you have some issues with your
current Unicomp, especially during boot or sleep, get a new controller
board.

Best Regards,
--
! _\|/_ Sylvain / ***@hotmail.com
! (o o) Member:David-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society
oO-( )-Oo GOLFER: One who yells "fore!" takes 5 & writes down 3.
Paul
2018-05-23 03:53:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by B00ze
Post by B00ze
Post by B00ze
I have finally taken the time to replace the v6.x controller boards for
my USB Unicomps with the v7.x controllers they sent me. The problem with
the keyboard totally freezing-up if I dared to touch it while the BIOS
was booting-up is resolved (Hurray!) The strange behaviour when waking
the computer from sleep is still there: Windows re-detects the keyboard,
as tho I had unplugged it while asleep, and sometimes it does not detect
it correctly so you're stuck on the logon screen. I tested with a cheap
Logitech keyboard, and it is definitively a Unicomp thing, there is no
re-detecting the keyboard on wake with the Logitech.
The bad news is that my older 101 keys Unicomp uses a different locking
mechanism for holding the controller board than my newer 103 keys, and I
am totally unable to make the controller connect to all of the
keyboard's signal lines, so some keys are always not working. I guess I
will have to buy some foam-tape and try to make the foam push the
flexible membrane harder against the PCB. I have asked Unicomp if they
can do anything for me but had not heard back in a week - I might have
to open a new ticket rather than open my old one. Will update this thread.
Regards,
Unicomp is sending me a new foam pad. I will try to remove the old one
and place this one a little lower, so that contact is better with the
PCB. Will report back. Pretty happy with the new version 7 controller;
if this foam pad works, I will mark this thread as resolved and give a
hearty two thumbs up for Unicomp keyboards.
Well, there is good and bad news. The new v7 controllers are much better
than previous versions, even tho they still do that weird thing when
coming out of sleep mode. And the new foam pad Unicomp sent worked
great, all the keys that were ever going to work were now working.
Unfortunately, I had used 100% alcohol to clean the traces on the
transparent plastic "membrane" earlier, trying to get better contact to
the controller board. This weekend, flipping the membrane over, I
discovered that I had totally removed some of the traces when I used the
alcohol; so some of the traces were "cut" and will never again make
contact with the controller board. So this keyboard is toast; my fault.
I offered to send it back to Unicomp instead of throwing it away but
have not heard back.
I'll just buy another one if I need a gaming keyboard with no Windows
keys. I don't expect my current Unicomp WITH Windows keys to ever stop
working, these keyboard are like tanks. Sorry it took me so long to
update this thread. Conclusion is: If you have some issues with your
current Unicomp, especially during boot or sleep, get a new controller
board.
Best Regards,
And that suggests that perhaps washing the keyboard in water
would have (slightly) damaged it too - if it was alcohol soluble.
Water might well have done a job on it too, as might spilling
a Coke on it (followed by frantic attempts to rinse it clean).

Paul
B00ze
2018-05-23 04:16:15 UTC
Permalink
On 2018-05-22 23:53, Paul <***@needed.invalid> wrote:

[snip]
Post by Paul
Post by B00ze
Well, there is good and bad news. The new v7 controllers are much
better than previous versions, even tho they still do that weird thing
when coming out of sleep mode. And the new foam pad Unicomp sent
worked great, all the keys that were ever going to work were now
working. Unfortunately, I had used 100% alcohol to clean the traces on
the transparent plastic "membrane" earlier, trying to get better
contact to the controller board. This weekend, flipping the membrane
over, I discovered that I had totally removed some of the traces when
I used the alcohol; so some of the traces were "cut" and will never
again make contact with the controller board. So this keyboard is
toast; my fault. I offered to send it back to Unicomp instead of
throwing it away but have not heard back.
I'll just buy another one if I need a gaming keyboard with no Windows
keys. I don't expect my current Unicomp WITH Windows keys to ever stop
working, these keyboard are like tanks. Sorry it took me so long to
update this thread. Conclusion is: If you have some issues with your
current Unicomp, especially during boot or sleep, get a new controller
board.
Best Regards,
And that suggests that perhaps washing the keyboard in water
would have (slightly) damaged it too - if it was alcohol soluble.
Water might well have done a job on it too, as might spilling
a Coke on it (followed by frantic attempts to rinse it clean).
Well I only tried to clean the traces that were on the plastic
"membrane" which sits under the keys but which also protrudes from the
key area, and goes touching the controller board from below. I used 100%
alcohol from MG Chemicals, not rubbing alcohol. But the stuff is strong,
way too strong. Usually, when I clean contact points like this, I just
use a white eraser; I even have one with a deep groove in it to clean
the connector parts of expansion cards etc. On cheap "normal" keyboards,
or on remote controls, or calculators, I also use an eraser. But 3 weeks
ago, I went "Hey, I got this nice big bottle of pure alcohol" - Mistake!

I HAVE washed the keyboard part of Model M's with water in the past. So
long as you use something like a paint brush, to wash around the keyb
after having removed all the keys (which you can wash separately but let
them dry a full day before putting them back) then all is well. But
don't do like I once did, and just put the keyboard under the faucet
trying not to touch the holes where the keys go. You WILL screw-up and
/some/ water will make it into the keyboard. It's not as bad as it
sounds, but what happened, get this, is some of the buckling springs
rusted! So some keys were a bit weird after that (that particular Model
M was REALLY dirty.)

With this latest screw-up, I'm now pretty good on what NOT to do to a
Model M ;-)

Best Regards,
--
! _\|/_ Sylvain / ***@hotmail.com
! (o o) Member:David-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society
oO-( )-Oo Does it bother ya that doctors call what they do a practice?
Andy Burns
2018-05-25 02:29:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by B00ze
I had used 100% alcohol to clean the traces on the
transparent plastic "membrane" earlier, trying to get better contact to
the controller board. This weekend, flipping the membrane over, I
discovered that I had totally removed some of the traces when I used the
alcohol; so some of the traces were "cut" and will never again make
contact with the controller board. So this keyboard is toast;
Could you use some of the silver(?) conductive paint to re-draw the traces?
B00ze
2018-05-25 03:50:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Burns
Post by B00ze
I had used 100% alcohol to clean the traces on the
transparent plastic "membrane" earlier, trying to get better contact to
the controller board. This weekend, flipping the membrane over, I
discovered that I had totally removed some of the traces when I used the
alcohol; so some of the traces were "cut" and will never again make
contact with the controller board. So this keyboard is toast;
Could you use some of the silver(?) conductive paint to re-draw the traces?
Ohhh, I did not know about this. Found a "pen" of conductive paint,
ironically from MG Chemicals (the 100% Alcohol is from them.) Darn, I
have already removed a bunch of parts from the keyboard; guess I'll have
to put it all back together now.

Excellent suggestion, thanks! I will try this in maybe 2 weeks? Will
come back and let you know if it works.

Best Regards,
--
! _\|/_ Sylvain / ***@hotmail.com
! (o o) Member:David-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society
oO-( )-Oo A truly wise man never plays leapfrog with a unicorn.
Paul
2018-05-25 05:19:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by B00ze
Post by Andy Burns
Post by B00ze
I had used 100% alcohol to clean the traces on the
transparent plastic "membrane" earlier, trying to get better contact to
the controller board. This weekend, flipping the membrane over, I
discovered that I had totally removed some of the traces when I used the
alcohol; so some of the traces were "cut" and will never again make
contact with the controller board. So this keyboard is toast;
Could you use some of the silver(?) conductive paint to re-draw the traces?
Ohhh, I did not know about this. Found a "pen" of conductive paint,
ironically from MG Chemicals (the 100% Alcohol is from them.) Darn, I
have already removed a bunch of parts from the keyboard; guess I'll have
to put it all back together now.
Excellent suggestion, thanks! I will try this in maybe 2 weeks? Will
come back and let you know if it works.
Best Regards,
http://www.pckeyboard.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Category_code=Misc&Product_code=MEM

Membrane assembly Price: $10.00

Have a chat with them, see what they've got.

Paul
B00ze
2018-05-26 05:32:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by B00ze
Post by Andy Burns
Post by B00ze
I had used 100% alcohol to clean the traces on the
transparent plastic "membrane" earlier, trying to get better contact to
the controller board. This weekend, flipping the membrane over, I
discovered that I had totally removed some of the traces when I used the
alcohol; so some of the traces were "cut" and will never again make
contact with the controller board. So this keyboard is toast;
Could you use some of the silver(?) conductive paint to re-draw the traces?
Ohhh, I did not know about this. Found a "pen" of conductive paint,
ironically from MG Chemicals (the 100% Alcohol is from them.) Darn, I
have already removed a bunch of parts from the keyboard; guess I'll
have to put it all back together now.
Excellent suggestion, thanks! I will try this in maybe 2 weeks? Will
come back and let you know if it works.
Best Regards,
http://www.pckeyboard.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Category_code=Misc&Product_code=MEM
Membrane assembly Price: $10.00
The problem is the membrane sits between the metal backplane and the
black plastic base which holds the keys. The two (metal backplane and
black plastic base) are held together by melting the black plastic
rivet-like - I cannot separate them...
Post by Paul
Have a chat with them, see what they've got.
They have seen this thread, I am pretty sure, and are probably not
happy; they are not chatting with me anymore. But for a hundred bucks, I
expected a working USB controller; there were different bugs on two of
the controller versions I had. I expect bugs from some things, but not
from a Model M keyboard.

Regards,
--
! _\|/_ Sylvain / ***@hotmail.com
! (o o) Member:David-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society
oO-( )-Oo Error reading FAT Record. Try the skinny one (y/n)?
B00ze
2018-05-26 05:48:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by B00ze
They have seen this thread, I am pretty sure, and are probably not
happy; they are not chatting with me anymore. But for a hundred bucks, I
expected a working USB controller; there were different bugs on two of
the controller versions I had. I expect bugs from some things, but not
from a Model M keyboard.
I got the same thing over @ TeraBytes Unlimited. I complained that their
multi-boot tool was erasing my partition tables each time I rebooted the
computer. I made a very detailed bug report and got the standard Service
Desk "It must be you, just reboot" kinda response. After 2 responses
like this I got mad, explained I was not some 10 year old kid and that
they read the bug report I made explaining exactly how to reproduce.
They fixed the bug like 2 days later, but to this day, no matter my
pleas, the support person will not talk to me anymore. They are
childish; I do not recommend them anymore.

Best Regards,
--
! _\|/_ Sylvain / ***@hotmail.com
! (o o) Member:David-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society
oO-( )-Oo He's dead Jim, that's ten this week already! -Bones
Paul
2018-05-26 06:24:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by B00ze
Post by Paul
Post by B00ze
Post by Andy Burns
Post by B00ze
I had used 100% alcohol to clean the traces on the
transparent plastic "membrane" earlier, trying to get better contact to
the controller board. This weekend, flipping the membrane over, I
discovered that I had totally removed some of the traces when I used the
alcohol; so some of the traces were "cut" and will never again make
contact with the controller board. So this keyboard is toast;
Could you use some of the silver(?) conductive paint to re-draw the traces?
Ohhh, I did not know about this. Found a "pen" of conductive paint,
ironically from MG Chemicals (the 100% Alcohol is from them.) Darn, I
have already removed a bunch of parts from the keyboard; guess I'll
have to put it all back together now.
Excellent suggestion, thanks! I will try this in maybe 2 weeks? Will
come back and let you know if it works.
Best Regards,
http://www.pckeyboard.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Category_code=Misc&Product_code=MEM
Membrane assembly Price: $10.00
The problem is the membrane sits between the metal backplane and the
black plastic base which holds the keys. The two (metal backplane and
black plastic base) are held together by melting the black plastic
rivet-like - I cannot separate them...
Post by Paul
Have a chat with them, see what they've got.
They have seen this thread, I am pretty sure, and are probably not
happy; they are not chatting with me anymore. But for a hundred bucks, I
expected a working USB controller; there were different bugs on two of
the controller versions I had. I expect bugs from some things, but not
from a Model M keyboard.
Regards,
I have a membrane keyboard (now retired) and the membranes
are welded to each other, but not to anything else. They fit
over alignment pegs, and that's what keeps the membrane aligned
with the key array.

It made it very easy to clean. After a coffee spill, just pull
the membrane pile and rinse in cold water for a while. The membranes
can be held apart while it dries, then reassemble.

How I ruined that, is removing the keycaps and cleaning underneath.
That seemed to be too much for the thing. So on my keyboard
(not the same brand as yours), the keyboard treated me really
well.

Now, if you take the $150 boat-anchor Apple keyboard, that
one when I spilled coffee on it, the thing was riveted
together, and an attempt to drill a rivet, just made it
spin around. I rinsed that for a long time, dried it for
a couple days in a gently heated airstream... and still three
keys were sticky enough to not work properly. $150.00 out
the window...

Paul
B00ze
2018-05-30 05:17:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by B00ze
Post by Paul
http://www.pckeyboard.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Category_code=Misc&Product_code=MEM
Membrane assembly Price: $10.00
The problem is the membrane sits between the metal backplane and the
black plastic base which holds the keys. The two (metal backplane and
black plastic base) are held together by melting the black plastic
rivet-like - I cannot separate them...
Post by Paul
Have a chat with them, see what they've got.
They have seen this thread, I am pretty sure, and are probably not
happy; they are not chatting with me anymore. But for a hundred bucks,
I expected a working USB controller; there were different bugs on two
of the controller versions I had. I expect bugs from some things, but
not from a Model M keyboard.
Regards,
I have a membrane keyboard (now retired) and the membranes
are welded to each other, but not to anything else. They fit
over alignment pegs, and that's what keeps the membrane aligned
with the key array.
It made it very easy to clean. After a coffee spill, just pull
the membrane pile and rinse in cold water for a while. The membranes
can be held apart while it dries, then reassemble.
I'll have a look at it again, maybe I can pull it out without separating
the keyboard and the backplane - there must be a trick, if UniComp sells
the membrane separately. I would ask them what the tick is, but since
they're not really talking to me anymore... They did send me a foam pad,
free of charge, when I told them about my problem (or when they saw my
post here,) so they still want to do the right thing; I'm pretty happy
with the service I got from them.
Post by Paul
How I ruined that, is removing the keycaps and cleaning underneath.
That seemed to be too much for the thing. So on my keyboard
(not the same brand as yours), the keyboard treated me really
well.
Now, if you take the $150 boat-anchor Apple keyboard, that
one when I spilled coffee on it, the thing was riveted
together, and an attempt to drill a rivet, just made it
spin around. I rinsed that for a long time, dried it for
a couple days in a gently heated airstream... and still three
keys were sticky enough to not work properly. $150.00 out
the window...
See, using water on a keyboard is possible, lol, but make sure to dry
those blucking springs properly, or they will rust! ;-)

Best Regards,
--
! _\|/_ Sylvain / ***@hotmail.com
! (o o) Member:David-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society
oO-( )-Oo Does it bother ya that doctors call what they do a practice?
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-05-25 05:27:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by B00ze
Post by Andy Burns
Post by B00ze
I had used 100% alcohol to clean the traces on the
transparent plastic "membrane" earlier, trying to get better contact to
the controller board. This weekend, flipping the membrane over, I
discovered that I had totally removed some of the traces when I used the
alcohol; so some of the traces were "cut" and will never again make
contact with the controller board. So this keyboard is toast;
Could you use some of the silver(?) conductive paint to re-draw the traces?
Ohhh, I did not know about this. Found a "pen" of conductive paint,
ironically from MG Chemicals (the 100% Alcohol is from them.) Darn, I
have already removed a bunch of parts from the keyboard; guess I'll
have to put it all back together now.
Excellent suggestion, thanks! I will try this in maybe 2 weeks? Will
come back and let you know if it works.
Best Regards,
Don't get your hopes _too_ high: I bought some of this conductive paint
to repair the elements in my rear screen heater. It used to be widely
sold for that, but isn't now - probably because, as I found, it is very
fiddly to use and the chance of success is far from 100%. (I attempted
on two of the lines, and succeeded on one; I might try again next winter
if I find that wasn't sufficient.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Santa's elves are just a bunch of subordinate Clauses.
Andy Burns
2018-05-25 06:03:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I bought some of this conductive paint
to repair the elements in my rear screen heater. It used to be widely
sold for that, but isn't now - probably because, as I found, it is very
fiddly to use
I do remember it being sold for that, and also as a window-break sensor
for burglar alarms, but I never tried using the stuff ...
Mr. Man-wai Chang
2018-05-26 01:07:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Burns
Could you use some of the silver(?) conductive paint to re-draw the traces?
How do you "liquidate" a dried tip of a silver pen? I got one that's
unusable.
--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
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Paul
2018-05-25 10:27:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mr. Man-wai Chang
Post by Andy Burns
Could you use some of the silver(?) conductive paint to re-draw the traces?
How do you "liquidate" a dried tip of a silver pen? I got one that's
unusable.
Look up the MSDS for the product.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety_data_sheet

Paul
Mr. Man-wai Chang
2018-05-26 01:36:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by Mr. Man-wai Chang
How do you "liquidate" a dried tip of a silver pen? I got one that's
unusable.
Look up the MSDS for the product.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety_data_sheet
You meant I should have just thrown it away properly?
--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
不借貸! 不詐騙! 不賭錢! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 不求神! 請考慮綜援
(CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa
Paul
2018-05-25 11:07:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mr. Man-wai Chang
Post by Paul
Post by Mr. Man-wai Chang
How do you "liquidate" a dried tip of a silver pen? I got one that's
unusable.
Look up the MSDS for the product.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety_data_sheet
You meant I should have just thrown it away properly?
Here's an example.

Say I own "permatex rear window defogger repair kit"

I do a Google search on

permatex rear window defogger repair kit MSDS

That gives me this PDF. I read the PDF.

https://www.lemona.lt/LIUSE/TI/En/Pdf/09117.pdf

SILVER 7440-22-4 40-50% by weight
ETHYL ACETATE 141-78-6 20-30% by weight
ETHANOL 64-17-5 10-20% by weight
1-METHOXY-2-PROPANOL ACETATE 108-65-6 10-20% by weight
POLY (METHYL METHACRYLATE) 9011-14-7 1-10% by weight
PIGMENT ORANGE #13

Then you look up some of the ingredients.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methyl_methacrylate

The principal application is the manufacture of
polymethyl methacrylate acrylic plastics (PMMA).

That means some of the components in the kit, form a polymer.
This is an irreversible chemical reaction. In other
words, when it dries, it has chemically changed into
a form of plastic.

One of the chemical is a solvent. ETHANOL.

That means you can add a little ethanol to the tip
of the pen, but because the other components have
formed some sort of acrylic plastic or acetate compound,
you would expect the ethanol to be ineffective at
rejuvenating the pen.

For some chemical compounds, they're simply solvated.
And when the solvent evaporates, you add some more
solvent and that "rejuvenates" the material and allows
you to use it.

However, if an irreversible chemical reaction happens,
you can pour all the ethanol you want on it, and it
won't be good as new.

Paul
Mr. Man-wai Chang
2018-05-26 06:10:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
For some chemical compounds, they're simply solvated.
And when the solvent evaporates, you add some more
solvent and that "rejuvenates" the material and allows
you to use it.
However, if an irreversible chemical reaction happens,
you can pour all the ethanol you want on it, and it
won't be good as new.
Thanks. Irreversible chemical reaction ....
--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
不借貸! 不詐騙! 不賭錢! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 不求神! 請考慮綜援
(CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa
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