Discussion:
New Device detection, 32 vs 64 bit
(too old to reply)
pjp
2018-07-13 04:53:01 UTC
Permalink
I have an old Creative Webcam Gen3. Under XP it required a driver and
that's the last one available. Driver is very old, basically unuasable
in todays OS's.

As a curiousity I plugged it into a couple of Win7 32 bit pcs and they
all saw the camera, downloaded a driver and it was seen as a Windows
Imaging Device and it worked. Under 64 bit Win7 it can't locate a
driver!!!

Same thing happened in last 24 hours, 64 bit Windows with a bluetooth
dongle and it's go looking yourself. 32 bit downloads a driver that
appears to work properly.

Is this a common occurence?
VanguardLH
2018-07-13 06:48:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by pjp
I have an old Creative Webcam Gen3. Under XP it required a driver and
that's the last one available. Driver is very old, basically unuasable
in todays OS's.
As a curiousity I plugged it into a couple of Win7 32 bit pcs and they
all saw the camera, downloaded a driver and it was seen as a Windows
Imaging Device and it worked. Under 64 bit Win7 it can't locate a
driver!!!
Same thing happened in last 24 hours, 64 bit Windows with a bluetooth
dongle and it's go looking yourself. 32 bit downloads a driver that
appears to work properly.
Is this a common occurence?
Probably because the last driver provided by Creative (Microsoft doesn't
write the drivers, they just included them in later versions of Windows)
was a 32-bit driver. Unless Creative created a 64-bit driver, there
isn't one for Microsoft to bundle with a later version of Windows.
Brian Gregory
2018-07-14 16:59:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by VanguardLH
Post by pjp
I have an old Creative Webcam Gen3. Under XP it required a driver and
that's the last one available. Driver is very old, basically unuasable
in todays OS's.
As a curiousity I plugged it into a couple of Win7 32 bit pcs and they
all saw the camera, downloaded a driver and it was seen as a Windows
Imaging Device and it worked. Under 64 bit Win7 it can't locate a
driver!!!
Same thing happened in last 24 hours, 64 bit Windows with a bluetooth
dongle and it's go looking yourself. 32 bit downloads a driver that
appears to work properly.
Is this a common occurence?
Probably because the last driver provided by Creative (Microsoft doesn't
write the drivers, they just included them in later versions of Windows)
was a 32-bit driver. Unless Creative created a 64-bit driver, there
isn't one for Microsoft to bundle with a later version of Windows.
I think Microsoft writes some drivers but not many.
--
Brian Gregory (in England).
VanguardLH
2018-07-14 19:04:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Gregory
Post by VanguardLH
Post by pjp
I have an old Creative Webcam Gen3. Under XP it required a driver and
that's the last one available. Driver is very old, basically unuasable
in todays OS's.
As a curiousity I plugged it into a couple of Win7 32 bit pcs and they
all saw the camera, downloaded a driver and it was seen as a Windows
Imaging Device and it worked. Under 64 bit Win7 it can't locate a
driver!!!
Same thing happened in last 24 hours, 64 bit Windows with a bluetooth
dongle and it's go looking yourself. 32 bit downloads a driver that
appears to work properly.
Is this a common occurence?
Probably because the last driver provided by Creative (Microsoft doesn't
write the drivers, they just included them in later versions of Windows)
was a 32-bit driver. Unless Creative created a 64-bit driver, there
isn't one for Microsoft to bundle with a later version of Windows.
I think Microsoft writes some drivers but not many.
I suspect the only "drivers" that Microsoft writes are the INF files to
define classes of generic devices (i.e., their miniport drivers).

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/gettingstarted/minidrivers-and-driver-pairs

This was the same idea as when Microsoft provided DirectX, so game
authors would have a consistent interface to which they could code
instead of each author having to design from scratch. In some cases,
all that is needed is the INF "driver", like for mass storage devices
(e.g., hard disks).

There have been problems in the past with hardware vendors doling out a
driver to Windows and then finding their driver has a flaw. I remember
when Promise (probably for a SCSI controller) pushed out a driver to
Microsoft, found it had a flaw that caused data loss, and tried to yank
it within the same week; however, they couldn't get Microsoft to pull
the driver for something like 3 months. For the corrected driver, you
had to use the newest one at Promise's site.

I've had Windows Update try to push a driver that was for a different
model within the same family of products from a vendor. For example, a
Winmodem had 3 different versions (A, B, C) for the same model and I
needed the driver for the C model, not the earlier ones. But WU wanted
to push a driver for the earlier versions. If I used the old drivers,
most of the Winmodem would work but a couple features would've been
lost. Although it was "just" a version change, the board vendor had
changed which chip was on the PCB so a new driver was required to fully
support it.

I *never* get driver updates via Windows Update. Their detection scheme
won't catch the problem with the wrong driver as mentioned above for the
Winmodem and the hardware vendor might already have a newer, improved,
or fixed version of their driver, so using an old one could result in
loss of function, or worse loss of data.
pjp
2018-07-15 03:19:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by VanguardLH
Post by Brian Gregory
Post by VanguardLH
Post by pjp
I have an old Creative Webcam Gen3. Under XP it required a driver and
that's the last one available. Driver is very old, basically unuasable
in todays OS's.
As a curiousity I plugged it into a couple of Win7 32 bit pcs and they
all saw the camera, downloaded a driver and it was seen as a Windows
Imaging Device and it worked. Under 64 bit Win7 it can't locate a
driver!!!
Same thing happened in last 24 hours, 64 bit Windows with a bluetooth
dongle and it's go looking yourself. 32 bit downloads a driver that
appears to work properly.
Is this a common occurence?
Probably because the last driver provided by Creative (Microsoft doesn't
write the drivers, they just included them in later versions of Windows)
was a 32-bit driver. Unless Creative created a 64-bit driver, there
isn't one for Microsoft to bundle with a later version of Windows.
I think Microsoft writes some drivers but not many.
I suspect the only "drivers" that Microsoft writes are the INF files to
define classes of generic devices (i.e., their miniport drivers).
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/gettingstarted/minidrivers-and-driver-pairs
This was the same idea as when Microsoft provided DirectX, so game
authors would have a consistent interface to which they could code
instead of each author having to design from scratch. In some cases,
all that is needed is the INF "driver", like for mass storage devices
(e.g., hard disks).
There have been problems in the past with hardware vendors doling out a
driver to Windows and then finding their driver has a flaw. I remember
when Promise (probably for a SCSI controller) pushed out a driver to
Microsoft, found it had a flaw that caused data loss, and tried to yank
it within the same week; however, they couldn't get Microsoft to pull
the driver for something like 3 months. For the corrected driver, you
had to use the newest one at Promise's site.
I've had Windows Update try to push a driver that was for a different
model within the same family of products from a vendor. For example, a
When there is no other driver Windows is only option. The Webcam is that
old :)
Paul
2018-07-15 05:02:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by pjp
Post by VanguardLH
Post by Brian Gregory
Post by VanguardLH
Post by pjp
I have an old Creative Webcam Gen3. Under XP it required a driver and
that's the last one available. Driver is very old, basically unuasable
in todays OS's.
As a curiousity I plugged it into a couple of Win7 32 bit pcs and they
all saw the camera, downloaded a driver and it was seen as a Windows
Imaging Device and it worked. Under 64 bit Win7 it can't locate a
driver!!!
Same thing happened in last 24 hours, 64 bit Windows with a bluetooth
dongle and it's go looking yourself. 32 bit downloads a driver that
appears to work properly.
Is this a common occurence?
Probably because the last driver provided by Creative (Microsoft doesn't
write the drivers, they just included them in later versions of Windows)
was a 32-bit driver. Unless Creative created a 64-bit driver, there
isn't one for Microsoft to bundle with a later version of Windows.
I think Microsoft writes some drivers but not many.
I suspect the only "drivers" that Microsoft writes are the INF files to
define classes of generic devices (i.e., their miniport drivers).
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/gettingstarted/minidrivers-and-driver-pairs
This was the same idea as when Microsoft provided DirectX, so game
authors would have a consistent interface to which they could code
instead of each author having to design from scratch. In some cases,
all that is needed is the INF "driver", like for mass storage devices
(e.g., hard disks).
There have been problems in the past with hardware vendors doling out a
driver to Windows and then finding their driver has a flaw. I remember
when Promise (probably for a SCSI controller) pushed out a driver to
Microsoft, found it had a flaw that caused data loss, and tried to yank
it within the same week; however, they couldn't get Microsoft to pull
the driver for something like 3 months. For the corrected driver, you
had to use the newest one at Promise's site.
I've had Windows Update try to push a driver that was for a different
model within the same family of products from a vendor. For example, a
When there is no other driver Windows is only option. The Webcam is that
old :)
Cameras are split into two groups.

The older cameras didn't follow a standard.

Newer cameras are UVC (USB Video Class) compatible.
They work up to about 960*??? or so. If you want
a higher resolution choice, or custom features
(pan/tilt/zoom), then a custom driver is needed for
the extra features.

The camera consists of two parts. A CMOS or CCD sensor
with a glass top. And a "digital bus" to USB packet
chip to get to the computer. Even if you detected
the conversion chip via its plug and play information,
that doesn't tell you what sensor is being used. If, on
the other hand, the conversion chip accepts an SPD
chip off to the side, then a custom declaration can
be used to state what camera it is. And then PNP
could be used to track down a driver.

Now, if you went to the Linux side, you might find source
code for basic operation. You might even be able to
track down a jumbo Windows driver, based on what
you discover using the enumeration. A tool like
Uwes USBTreeView can be used for this purpose.

https://www.uwe-sieber.de/usbtreeview_e.html

Using the info from USBTreeView, you can look up
the device here. For example, your webcam could be
a Sonix non-UVC camera.

http://www.linux-usb.org/usb.ids

0c45 Microdia
62c0 Sonix USB 2.0 Camera

Then you'd head off to Linux land, and
see what materials they used to make the FOSS
driver for the thing.

Note that a few of the Chinese sites hosting a driver
for a Sonix, may harbor malware, so be careful. You can
use Virustotal.com to attempt a scan of a downloader site
like that. Some camera I was working on here, had me
searching in places like that. Because a lot of these
"$5 dental cameras", there's *no* fancy website to get
driver materials. You're left to collect floor sweepings
to make your new purchase work.

That's one reason why vanilla UVC is a useful option.
Even if you cannot "Skype" at 1920x1080, a UVC with
640x480 mode may be sufficient for a connection.

Paul
Brian Gregory
2018-07-15 17:28:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by VanguardLH
Post by Brian Gregory
Post by VanguardLH
Post by pjp
I have an old Creative Webcam Gen3. Under XP it required a driver and
that's the last one available. Driver is very old, basically unuasable
in todays OS's.
As a curiousity I plugged it into a couple of Win7 32 bit pcs and they
all saw the camera, downloaded a driver and it was seen as a Windows
Imaging Device and it worked. Under 64 bit Win7 it can't locate a
driver!!!
Same thing happened in last 24 hours, 64 bit Windows with a bluetooth
dongle and it's go looking yourself. 32 bit downloads a driver that
appears to work properly.
Is this a common occurence?
Probably because the last driver provided by Creative (Microsoft doesn't
write the drivers, they just included them in later versions of Windows)
was a 32-bit driver. Unless Creative created a 64-bit driver, there
isn't one for Microsoft to bundle with a later version of Windows.
I think Microsoft writes some drivers but not many.
I suspect the only "drivers" that Microsoft writes are the INF files to
define classes of generic devices (i.e., their miniport drivers).
No there are actual drivers written by Microsoft.

I use Microsoft drivers for the SATA ports on my Intel Z87 chipset based
motherboard because I find them more reliable and compatible than the
Intel "rapid storage" drivers.
--
Brian Gregory (in England).
Paul
2018-07-14 23:27:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Gregory
Post by VanguardLH
Post by pjp
I have an old Creative Webcam Gen3. Under XP it required a driver and
that's the last one available. Driver is very old, basically unuasable
in todays OS's.
As a curiousity I plugged it into a couple of Win7 32 bit pcs and they
all saw the camera, downloaded a driver and it was seen as a Windows
Imaging Device and it worked. Under 64 bit Win7 it can't locate a
driver!!!
Same thing happened in last 24 hours, 64 bit Windows with a bluetooth
dongle and it's go looking yourself. 32 bit downloads a driver that
appears to work properly.
Is this a common occurence?
Probably because the last driver provided by Creative (Microsoft doesn't
write the drivers, they just included them in later versions of Windows)
was a 32-bit driver. Unless Creative created a 64-bit driver, there
isn't one for Microsoft to bundle with a later version of Windows.
I think Microsoft writes some drivers but not many.
Microsoft writes "Class" drivers, which take into
account the "quirks" of various commercial offerings.

There would be Class drivers for USB2 and USB3 and Firewire.
USBStor or UASPStor would be examples of layers above
the physical layer.

I couldn't tell you whether Bluetooth has sufficient
standards to have a "standard register set" on a dongle,
so a single driver can handle all of them.

USB has class declarations so the device can be
declared as "Custom", and then nobody but the
device manufacturer can offer a driver. As only they
know what functions the registers perform.

Paul
Paul
2018-07-13 07:23:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by pjp
I have an old Creative Webcam Gen3. Under XP it required a driver and
that's the last one available. Driver is very old, basically unuasable
in todays OS's.
As a curiousity I plugged it into a couple of Win7 32 bit pcs and they
all saw the camera, downloaded a driver and it was seen as a Windows
Imaging Device and it worked. Under 64 bit Win7 it can't locate a
driver!!!
Same thing happened in last 24 hours, 64 bit Windows with a bluetooth
dongle and it's go looking yourself. 32 bit downloads a driver that
appears to work properly.
Is this a common occurence?
Are these on the catalog server ?

https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/Home.aspx

Paul
pjp
2018-07-13 08:07:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by pjp
I have an old Creative Webcam Gen3. Under XP it required a driver and
that's the last one available. Driver is very old, basically unuasable
in todays OS's.
As a curiousity I plugged it into a couple of Win7 32 bit pcs and they
all saw the camera, downloaded a driver and it was seen as a Windows
Imaging Device and it worked. Under 64 bit Win7 it can't locate a
driver!!!
Same thing happened in last 24 hours, 64 bit Windows with a bluetooth
dongle and it's go looking yourself. 32 bit downloads a driver that
appears to work properly.
Is this a common occurence?
Are these on the catalog server ?
https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/Home.aspx
Paul
Appear to be, least Broadcom Bluetooth shows up as both 32 % 64 bit
versions. I'll try again as perhaps it was simply a network connection
issue. I have the driver to install 64 bit but hopefully it's not
needed.

Biggest issue is I have no bluetooth device to check it works, dongle
kinda just fell into lap so to speak.
Paul
2018-07-13 08:22:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by pjp
Post by Paul
Post by pjp
I have an old Creative Webcam Gen3. Under XP it required a driver and
that's the last one available. Driver is very old, basically unuasable
in todays OS's.
As a curiousity I plugged it into a couple of Win7 32 bit pcs and they
all saw the camera, downloaded a driver and it was seen as a Windows
Imaging Device and it worked. Under 64 bit Win7 it can't locate a
driver!!!
Same thing happened in last 24 hours, 64 bit Windows with a bluetooth
dongle and it's go looking yourself. 32 bit downloads a driver that
appears to work properly.
Is this a common occurence?
Are these on the catalog server ?
https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/Home.aspx
Paul
Appear to be, least Broadcom Bluetooth shows up as both 32 % 64 bit
versions. I'll try again as perhaps it was simply a network connection
issue. I have the driver to install 64 bit but hopefully it's not
needed.
Biggest issue is I have no bluetooth device to check it works, dongle
kinda just fell into lap so to speak.
With two dongles, in theory you can do a piconet
(Internet Connection Sharing). When I did an experiment
here, I think I managed to get one or two ping packets
through two dongles, before the connection died. Windows 10
didn't seem to be prepared in any way, for a user to want
a Bluetooth piconet. The datarate would be about as fast
as one of the old dialup modems. Not exactly screaming fast.

Finding a Bluetooth peripheral, if you're not a Bluetooth
person, might well be more difficult. I couldn't find anything
here to buy, that didn't look like pure rubbish. So like
you, I can't test the "high runner case" (A2DP).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bluetooth_profiles

One of the problems I have with the stores here now,
is there's nothing in stock for an "impulse buy". It
looks like the stores, when they want to go bankrupt,
will have a "very small clearance sale". Even a year ago,
things looked a little bit better. Now all the stores just
want to run mail order outfits. Where is the service
differentiation ? If they want my business, how will
they demonstrate superior attributes to customers ?

Paul
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-07-13 09:38:43 UTC
Permalink
In message <***@news.eternal-september.org>, pjp
<***@hotmail.com> writes:
[]
Post by pjp
Biggest issue is I have no bluetooth device to check it works, dongle
kinda just fell into lap so to speak.
Do you have a fobile moan? They mostly have Bluetooth these days, I
think, so might be usable to test your adapter.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Never make the same mistake twice...there are so many new ones to make!
pjp
2018-07-14 05:00:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by pjp
Biggest issue is I have no bluetooth device to check it works, dongle
kinda just fell into lap so to speak.
Do you have a fobile moan? They mostly have Bluetooth these days, I
think, so might be usable to test your adapter.
Never heard the term "fobile moan". It's "meaning"?
Paul
2018-07-14 05:11:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by pjp
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by pjp
Biggest issue is I have no bluetooth device to check it works, dongle
kinda just fell into lap so to speak.
Do you have a fobile moan? They mostly have Bluetooth these days, I
think, so might be usable to test your adapter.
Never heard the term "fobile moan". It's "meaning"?
The juxtaposition of phonemes ?

mobile phone
mobile fone
fobile moan

luaP
Stan Brown
2018-07-14 10:43:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
[quoted text muted]
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Do you have a fobile moan? They mostly have Bluetooth these days, I
think, so might be usable to test your adapter.
Never heard the term "fobile moan". It's "meaning"?
The juxtaposition of phonemes ?
mobile phone
mobile fone
fobile moan
luaP
I was about to disagree with your "phonemes" comment, but realized I
had misread "fobile" a "foible". I very nearly made myself out to be
a mucking foron.

This particular subgenre of phoneme switch is a Spoonerism.

https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=spoonerism
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://BrownMath.com/
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
Shikata ga nai...
Stan Brown
2018-07-14 10:47:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stan Brown
This particular subgenre of phoneme switch is a Spoonerism.
https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=spoonerism
Although "fobile moan" and "mucking foron" might not qualify, come to
think of it. think the rule is that the new "words" formed must be
actual words. "Our queer old dean" is a common example, and the above
link gives "/Let me sew you to your sheet/ for /Let me show you to
your seat./"
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://BrownMath.com/
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
Shikata ga nai...
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-07-14 12:34:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stan Brown
Post by Stan Brown
This particular subgenre of phoneme switch is a Spoonerism.
https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=spoonerism
Although "fobile moan" and "mucking foron" might not qualify, come to
It's probably less common in the US, where I understand the common term
is cellophane, or cell for short; in the UK, it's mobile 'phone, or
mobile for short. The term "foible" on its own (or, though even less so,
"moan") also has _some_ currency. [Incidentally, on a similar note: the
navigational aid that uses satellites, UK generally calls a "SatNav",
whereas I gather the US calls it a "GPS". Neither, strictly, being
technologically correct on their own but that's how the language
evolves. Like "microwave".]
Post by Stan Brown
think of it. think the rule is that the new "words" formed must be
actual words. "Our queer old dean" is a common example, and the above
link gives "/Let me sew you to your sheet/ for /Let me show you to
your seat./"
Though "I get my wicking MusD fuddled" has a definite appeal (-:. And
the full form of your "dean" one _does_ obey the rule - it's the loyal
toast: "Let's glaze Ruhr arses to the queer old dean".

Apparently, the reverend Sponger after whom they're named didn't
actually do the transpositions quite so rigorously as has become the
definition, perhaps announcing the hymn "Greenland's icy mountains" as
"Iceland's greasy mountains". But the name has stuck, and their use,
deliberate or (often better) accidental, will continue to provide much
amusement, I hope.

Now, for those with their head in their hands over this thread drift: I
hope, if the original poster is still with us, that s/he was able to use
a mobile/cell 'phone to test whether their Bluetooth adapter (or its
driver) was working. Though since it probably involves arcane settings
on the 'phone, borrowing a bomb from a nearby teenager - or an earpiece
(or possibly car!) from a nearby businessman - might be easier.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Grammar is there to help, not hinder."
-- Mark Wallace, APIHNA, 2nd December 2000 (quoted by John Flynn 2000-12-6)
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-07-14 13:26:03 UTC
Permalink
My spellchecker seems to have gone berserk on this one, sorry!
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Stan Brown
Post by Stan Brown
This particular subgenre of phoneme switch is a Spoonerism.
https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=spoonerism
Although "fobile moan" and "mucking foron" might not qualify, come to
It's probably less common in the US, where I understand the common term
is cellophane, or cell for short; in the UK, it's mobile 'phone, or
cellphone!
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
mobile for short. The term "foible" on its own (or, though even less
the navigational aid that uses satellites, UK generally calls a
"SatNav", whereas I gather the US calls it a "GPS". Neither, strictly,
being technologically correct on their own but that's how the language
evolves. Like "microwave".]
Post by Stan Brown
think of it. think the rule is that the new "words" formed must be
actual words. "Our queer old dean" is a common example, and the above
link gives "/Let me sew you to your sheet/ for /Let me show you to
your seat./"
Though "I get my wicking MusD fuddled" has a definite appeal (-:. And
wucking murds
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
the full form of your "dean" one _does_ obey the rule - it's the loyal
toast: "Let's glaze Ruhr arses to the queer old dean".
our-r!
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Apparently, the reverend Sponger after whom they're named didn't
Spooner!
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
actually do the transpositions quite so rigorously as has become the
definition, perhaps announcing the hymn "Greenland's icy mountains" as
"Iceland's greasy mountains". But the name has stuck, and their use,
deliberate or (often better) accidental, will continue to provide much
amusement, I hope.
Now, for those with their head in their hands over this thread drift: I
hope, if the original poster is still with us, that s/he was able to
use a mobile/cell 'phone to test whether their Bluetooth adapter (or
its driver) was working. Though since it probably involves arcane
settings on the 'phone, borrowing a bomb from a nearby teenager - or an
boombox!
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
earpiece (or possibly car!) from a nearby businessman - might be
easier.
I've no idea why my spellchecker - if indeed it was that! - was so
imaginative on this post!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Grief generates a huge energy in you and it's better for everybody if you
harness it to do something. - Judi Dench, RT 2015/2/28-3/6
Wolf K
2018-07-14 13:59:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
My spellchecker seems to have gone berserk on this one, sorry!
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Stan Brown
Post by Stan Brown
This particular subgenre of phoneme switch is a Spoonerism.
https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=spoonerism
Although "fobile moan" and "mucking foron" might not qualify, come to
It's probably less common in the US, where I understand the common
term is cellophane, or cell for short; in the UK, it's mobile 'phone, or
cellphone!
"Cell" means cell/mobile phone. Never heard it as meaning cellophane.
--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
What you choose to do with your body will, inevitably, have
psychological consequences.
Paul
2018-07-14 14:15:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wolf K
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
It's probably less common in the US, where I understand the common
term is cellophane, or cell for short; in the UK, it's mobile 'phone, or
cellphone!
"Cell" means cell/mobile phone. Never heard it as meaning cellophane.
That's likely from the olde Latin.

It's what the Romans used.

Loading Image...

The Romans also invented square rolls
of toilet paper, because the wheel hadn't
been invented by then.

Loading Image...

Paul
musika
2018-07-14 17:50:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wolf K
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
My spellchecker seems to have gone berserk on this one, sorry!
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Stan Brown
Post by Stan Brown
This particular subgenre of phoneme switch is a Spoonerism.
https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=spoonerism
Although "fobile moan" and "mucking foron" might not qualify, come to
It's probably less common in the US, where I understand the common
term is cellophane, or cell for short; in the UK, it's mobile 'phone, or
cellphone!
"Cell" means cell/mobile phone. Never heard it as meaning cellophane.
One of Gilliver's travails.
--
Ray
UK
Stan Brown
2018-07-16 22:59:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wolf K
[quoted text muted]
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
It's probably less common in the US, where I understand the common
term is cellophane, or cell for short; in the UK, it's mobile 'phone, or
cellphone!
"Cell" means cell/mobile phone. Never heard it as meaning cellophane.
And haven't heard of "cellophane" in probably decades. It's plastic
wrap, shrink wrap, etc.

"Cellophane" was actually a different kind of plastic, noticeably
less flexible.
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://BrownMath.com/
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
Shikata ga nai...
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-07-17 01:01:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stan Brown
Post by Wolf K
[quoted text muted]
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
It's probably less common in the US, where I understand the common
term is cellophane, or cell for short; in the UK, it's mobile 'phone, or
cellphone!
"Cell" means cell/mobile phone. Never heard it as meaning cellophane.
No, it didn't! That day I just hadn't spotted that my spellchecker had
gone berserk and "corrected" lots of things.
Post by Stan Brown
And haven't heard of "cellophane" in probably decades. It's plastic
wrap, shrink wrap, etc.
"Cellophane" was actually a different kind of plastic, noticeably
less flexible.
Yes, I haven't heard it for a while here either. The thin food-covering
tends to be referred to in the UK these days as clingfilm.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

We need a reversal of the old saying: "DON'T do unto others as you would have
them NOT do unto you." (Paraphrase from "The Moral Maze", 1998-11-21: it was an
attempt - quite good I thought - to get a modern [and non-specific] version.)
Paul
2018-07-17 02:00:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Stan Brown
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[quoted text muted]
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
It's probably less common in the US, where I understand the common
term is cellophane, or cell for short; in the UK, it's mobile
'phone, or
cellphone!
"Cell" means cell/mobile phone. Never heard it as meaning cellophane.
No, it didn't! That day I just hadn't spotted that my spellchecker had
gone berserk and "corrected" lots of things.
Post by Stan Brown
And haven't heard of "cellophane" in probably decades. It's plastic
wrap, shrink wrap, etc.
"Cellophane" was actually a different kind of plastic, noticeably
less flexible.
Yes, I haven't heard it for a while here either. The thin food-covering
tends to be referred to in the UK these days as clingfilm.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5mKq06jg32zpzwBTR1sYQp8/is-it-safe-to-use-cling-film-in-the-microwave

"we purchased cling films made with PVC and marked as microwave safe"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_wrap

"Plastic wrap was initially created from polyvinyl chloride (PVC)...

A common, cheaper alternative to PVC is low-density polyethylene (LDPE).
It is less adhesive than PVC, but this can be remedied by adding linear
low-density polyethylene (LLDPE), which also increases the film's
tensile strength.

In the US and Japan, plastic wrap is sometimes produced using
polyvinylidene chloride (PVdC) ... environmental concerns.
"

Better life through chemistry. The LDPE sounds nicer. All depends
on what plasticizer was added I suppose.

Paul
Mark Lloyd
2018-07-17 14:58:41 UTC
Permalink
On 07/16/2018 08:01 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

[snip]
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
No, it didn't! That day I just hadn't spotted that my spellchecker had
gone berserk and "corrected" lots of things.
I had noticed the similarity of "cellophane" and "cellphone".

BTW, I once posted about a Windows service called "LoadPowerProfile" and
my spell checker corrected it to "laryngectomize". The current one
suggests "waterproofing".

[snip]
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Education is a crutch with which the foolish attack the wise to prove
that they are not idiots." -- Karl Kraus
Ken Blake
2018-07-17 14:51:07 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 16 Jul 2018 18:59:03 -0400, Stan Brown
Post by Stan Brown
Post by Wolf K
[quoted text muted]
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
It's probably less common in the US, where I understand the common
term is cellophane, or cell for short; in the UK, it's mobile 'phone, or
cellphone!
"Cell" means cell/mobile phone. Never heard it as meaning cellophane.
And haven't heard of "cellophane" in probably decades. It's plastic
wrap, shrink wrap, etc.
"Cellophane" was actually a different kind of plastic, noticeably
less flexible.
Yes, cellophane is what cigarette packs used to be wrapped in. Are
they still? I don't know; it's been about 50 years since I last bought
one.
mechanic
2018-07-17 19:46:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
On Mon, 16 Jul 2018 18:59:03 -0400, Stan Brown
Post by Stan Brown
Post by Wolf K
[quoted text muted]
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
It's probably less common in the US, where I understand the common
term is cellophane, or cell for short; in the UK, it's mobile 'phone, or
cellphone!
"Cell" means cell/mobile phone. Never heard it as meaning cellophane.
And haven't heard of "cellophane" in probably decades. It's plastic
wrap, shrink wrap, etc.
"Cellophane" was actually a different kind of plastic, noticeably
less flexible.
Yes, cellophane is what cigarette packs used to be wrapped in. Are
they still? I don't know; it's been about 50 years since I last bought
one.
Cellophane is a vegetable product, most plastic film wrap is either
PVC or LDPE which aren't.

Paul
2018-07-14 10:49:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stan Brown
Post by Paul
[quoted text muted]
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Do you have a fobile moan? They mostly have Bluetooth these days, I
think, so might be usable to test your adapter.
Never heard the term "fobile moan". It's "meaning"?
The juxtaposition of phonemes ?
mobile phone
mobile fone
fobile moan
luaP
I was about to disagree with your "phonemes" comment, but realized I
had misread "fobile" a "foible". I very nearly made myself out to be
a mucking foron.
This particular subgenre of phoneme switch is a Spoonerism.
https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=spoonerism
I also picked "phonemes" because the joke involved a "phone".

The "spoonerism" bit, completely slipped my faulty memory.
I've heard of the term before, but it didn't bubble
forth from the dim recesses when needed.

Paul


Paul
Not The Mama
2018-07-14 16:57:42 UTC
Permalink
[snip]
Post by Stan Brown
I was about to disagree with your "phonemes" comment, but realized I
had misread "fobile" a "foible". I very nearly made myself out to be
a mucking foron.
[snip]

I'm reading this on a lall smaptop.
Ralph Fox
2018-07-14 05:19:37 UTC
Permalink
[...]
Post by pjp
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Do you have a fobile moan? They mostly have Bluetooth these days, I
think, so might be usable to test your adapter.
Never heard the term "fobile moan". It's "meaning"?
spoonerism (plural spoonerisms)

A play on words on a phrase in which the initial (usually consonantal)
sounds of two or more of the main words are transposed.

REF: <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/spoonerism>
--
Kind regards
Ralph
Ken Blake
2018-07-14 14:15:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ralph Fox
[...]
Post by pjp
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Do you have a fobile moan? They mostly have Bluetooth these days, I
think, so might be usable to test your adapter.
Never heard the term "fobile moan". It's "meaning"?
spoonerism (plural spoonerisms)
A play on words on a phrase in which the initial (usually consonantal)
sounds of two or more of the main words are transposed.
REF: <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/spoonerism>
Yes, but in good spoonerisms, the result of the transposition is two
actual words, preferably with a humorous result.

A Sale of Two Titties.

May I Sew You to your Sheet?

etc.
X
2018-07-14 17:05:41 UTC
Permalink
On 07/14/2018 09:15 AM, Ken Blake wrote:

[snip]
Post by Ken Blake
A Sale of Two Titties.
The tits, chickadees, and titmice constitute the Paridae, a large family
of small passerine birds which occur mainly in the Northern Hemisphere
and Africa. Most were formerly classified in the genus Parus.
Post by Ken Blake
May I Sew You to your Sheet?
etc.
Ken Blake
2018-07-14 20:21:27 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 01:53:01 -0300, pjp
Post by pjp
I have an old Creative Webcam Gen3. Under XP it required a driver and
that's the last one available. Driver is very old, basically unuasable
in todays OS's.
As a curiousity I plugged it into a couple of Win7 32 bit pcs and they
all saw the camera, downloaded a driver and it was seen as a Windows
Imaging Device and it worked. Under 64 bit Win7 it can't locate a
driver!!!
Same thing happened in last 24 hours, 64 bit Windows with a bluetooth
dongle and it's go looking yourself. 32 bit downloads a driver that
appears to work properly.
Is this a common occurence?
Yes, drivers not being available for old hardware and newer operating
systems is a common occurrence.
Loading...