Added hard drive - but only have 4-pin molex - no available SATA power cables

[Frank Weg]

I bought a hard drive for a dual-boot Win7/Win10 desktop, and bought the
SATA cable, but I didn't realize until I got home that the only unused
power connector available out of the 530Watt power supply is the round-pin
4-pin molex type and not the flat wide SATA power connector.

There are only 3 flat SATA power cables coming out of the power supply.
+ One flat SATA power cable is going to the dvd drive
+ One flat SATA power cable goes to disk1
+ One flat SATA power cable goes to disk2

But I just put a third disk in place today which needs a power connection.

Googling I saw that the flat wide SATA power connector has 3.3 volts (in
addition to 5 & 12 volts) while the 4-pin molex does not have 3.3 volts (it
only has the 5 and 12 volts).

The hard drive is a brand new 1TB WD Blue which doesn't say on the box or
in the instructions if it needs the missing 3.3VDC.

But I need to buy "something" to power the new hard disk drive.

Either a new power supply (which is probably overkill) because this power
supply only has 3 SATA flat power cables, or an adapter from molex to SATA,
or an adapter from one SATA to two SATA cable ends.

What is generally the best idea when you need 1 more flat SATA power?

[Paul]

Post by Frank Weg
I bought a hard drive for a dual-boot Win7/Win10 desktop, and bought the
SATA cable, but I didn't realize until I got home that the only unused
power connector available out of the 530Watt power supply is the round-pin
4-pin molex type and not the flat wide SATA power connector.
There are only 3 flat SATA power cables coming out of the power supply.
+ One flat SATA power cable is going to the dvd drive
+ One flat SATA power cable goes to disk1
+ One flat SATA power cable goes to disk2
But I just put a third disk in place today which needs a power connection.
Googling I saw that the flat wide SATA power connector has 3.3 volts (in
addition to 5 & 12 volts) while the 4-pin molex does not have 3.3 volts (it
only has the 5 and 12 volts).
The hard drive is a brand new 1TB WD Blue which doesn't say on the box or
in the instructions if it needs the missing 3.3VDC.
But I need to buy "something" to power the new hard disk drive.
Either a new power supply (which is probably overkill) because this power
supply only has 3 SATA flat power cables, or an adapter from molex to SATA,
or an adapter from one SATA to two SATA cable ends.
What is generally the best idea when you need 1 more flat SATA power?

You can get a Molex to single SATA connector (about 6 to 8" cable).

There is also a Molex to two SATA connector cable, with the wires
on that Y shape being maybe 12" or a bit more.

I would not use a SATA to dual SATA Y cable, because that would
potentially (worst case) violate the current rating of the
connector on the PSU side.

Whereas the Molex is rated 6-8 amps or so (depends on wire gauge
crimped into the four pins). SATA fifteen pin is 1 ampere per
contact, or 3 amps per rail.

The SATA has 3.3, 5V, 12V. Only microSATA drives ever used 3.3V
and they've disappeared from the market. Virtually all commonly
available storage right now, works with the 5V and 12V (which is
on the Molex source).

Now, on NVMe, I understand there's 3.3V on that, but I didn't look
it up and check, and at the moment, you're less likely to be
dealing with "extension cords" for such things :-)

What I did a year or two ago, is go to my one remaining good
computer store in town, and buy a "mix" of cables. The store
has its "own-branded" product, which is Chinese-sources, but
the construction seems to be reputable. And I have one of the
Molex to two SATA for powering a couple SSDs in the new computer.

One thing my computer store doesn't have is ESATA cables, and
they're a big zero on that stuff. But for internal drives, they
have the red data cables in several formulations, and they
have some Molex to SATA adapters.

I like the single connector cable, as it doesn't get in the
way a lot when I'm using it. The benefit of the Molex to
two SATA, is in fact the longer cables. By being a bit longer,
I can position the second (unused) end some place safe, rather
than it getting pinched in the computer case side panel.

The latching feature on this one, mine doesn't have that. And
I haven't had any problems with the power ones staying on.
I do like the latch on the data cables, but that doesn't work
with WDC hard drives that have a gap where that latch would have
worked.

https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812400307CVF

Paul

[Frank Weg]

Post by Paul
You can get a Molex to single SATA connector (about 6 to 8" cable).
There is also a Molex to two SATA connector cable, with the wires
on that Y shape being maybe 12" or a bit more.
I would not use a SATA to dual SATA Y cable, because that would
potentially (worst case) violate the current rating of the
connector on the PSU side.

Thanks for that advice to tie to the 4-pin molex and not use the existing
SATA cable (for amperage purposes), which makes a lot of good sense so I'll
go with the molex to SATA or even molex to dual SATA (which seems like a
good idea if I want to add another disk later).

Post by Paul
Whereas the Molex is rated 6-8 amps or so (depends on wire gauge
crimped into the four pins). SATA fifteen pin is 1 ampere per
contact, or 3 amps per rail.

Thanks for letting me know the logic of your recommendation, which I accept
(which tells me, electrically, molex to SATA is better than SATA to SATA).

Post by Paul
The SATA has 3.3, 5V, 12V. Only microSATA drives ever used 3.3V
and they've disappeared from the market. Virtually all commonly
available storage right now, works with the 5V and 12V (which is
on the Molex source).

Thanks for letting me know that the 3.3VDC need is rare, so that helps.

Post by Paul
Now, on NVMe, I understand there's 3.3V on that, but I didn't look
it up and check, and at the moment, you're less likely to be
dealing with "extension cords" for such things :-)

I also just independently confirmed the lack of 3.3 volts by pulling out
the new drive and looking at the label on the drive, which says the 12 and
5 volts but no 3.3 volts so that confirms there is no 3.3 volts on this new
drive, as you said it would be. (I wish they just said that on the box or
in the instructions that came with the box.)

Post by Paul
What I did a year or two ago, is go to my one remaining good
computer store in town, and buy a "mix" of cables. The store
has its "own-branded" product, which is Chinese-sources, but
the construction seems to be reputable. And I have one of the
Molex to two SATA for powering a couple SSDs in the new computer.

I think that's good advice to buy a few when cheap and then connect the
spare molex to the spare molex-to-SATA cable inside the desktop case when
you buy a new desktop!

That way you're always prepared.

Post by Paul
One thing my computer store doesn't have is ESATA cables, and
they're a big zero on that stuff. But for internal drives, they
have the red data cables in several formulations, and they
have some Molex to SATA adapters.

I had asked what cables I need when I was at the store and they said there
usually are plenty of power connections, but mine only had 3 SATA and one
Molex. I didn't know what to look for, but now I do. Thanks.

Post by Paul
I like the single connector cable, as it doesn't get in the
way a lot when I'm using it. The benefit of the Molex to
two SATA, is in fact the longer cables. By being a bit longer,
I can position the second (unused) end some place safe, rather
than it getting pinched in the computer case side panel.

Unless the cost is prohibitive, I'll go with the one molex to two SATA.
That way I have a spare.

Post by Paul
The latching feature on this one, mine doesn't have that. And
I haven't had any problems with the power ones staying on.
I do like the latch on the data cables, but that doesn't work
with WDC hard drives that have a gap where that latch would have
worked.

Speaking of latches, I didn't realize the DATA connector for SATA is
latched, so I broke one end. It stays on OK though.

Thanks for the advice.
I will plan on picking up a molex to two SATA which is a good compromise.

[rp]

Post by Frank Weg
What is generally the best idea when you need 1 more flat SATA power?

Since you have the molex connector available I'd just get a molex to
sata
cable such as;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282806770551

[Sam E]

Post by rp

Post by Frank Weg
What is generally the best idea when you need 1 more flat SATA power?

Since you have the molex connector available I'd just get a molex to
sata
cable such as;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282806770551

There's a funny thing on there. Says it ships worldwide, and then
excludes most of the world. Typical "give and take" language (the first
part gives you something, then the second part takes most of it back).

[Rene Lamontagne]

Post by Sam E

Post by rp

Post by Frank Weg
What is generally the best idea when you need 1 more flat SATA power?

Since you have the molex connector available I'd just get a molex to
sata
cable such as;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282806770551

There's a funny thing on there. Says it ships worldwide, and then
excludes most of the world. Typical "give and take" language (the first
part gives you something, then the second part takes most of it back).

Pretty crappy company, would never give them a penny far less a nickel,
even if they did ship to Canada.

Rene

[rp]

Post by Sam E

Post by rp

Post by Frank Weg
What is generally the best idea when you need 1 more flat SATA power?

Since you have the molex connector available I'd just get a molex to
sata
cable such as;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282806770551

There's a funny thing on there. Says it ships worldwide, and then
excludes most of the world. Typical "give and take" language (the first
part gives you something, then the second part takes most of it back).

It was only for an example of the type of cable. I didn't look at the
company or where it would ship expecting the OP to find their own
source.

[Patrick]

Post by Frank Weg
I bought a hard drive for a dual-boot Win7/Win10 desktop, and bought the
SATA cable, but I didn't realize until I got home that the only unused
power connector available out of the 530Watt power supply is the round-pin
4-pin molex type and not the flat wide SATA power connector.
There are only 3 flat SATA power cables coming out of the power supply.
+ One flat SATA power cable is going to the dvd drive
+ One flat SATA power cable goes to disk1
+ One flat SATA power cable goes to disk2
But I just put a third disk in place today which needs a power connection.
Googling I saw that the flat wide SATA power connector has 3.3 volts (in
addition to 5 & 12 volts) while the 4-pin molex does not have 3.3 volts (it
only has the 5 and 12 volts).
The hard drive is a brand new 1TB WD Blue which doesn't say on the box or
in the instructions if it needs the missing 3.3VDC.
But I need to buy "something" to power the new hard disk drive.
Either a new power supply (which is probably overkill) because this power
supply only has 3 SATA flat power cables, or an adapter from molex to SATA,
or an adapter from one SATA to two SATA cable ends.
What is generally the best idea when you need 1 more flat SATA power?

As mentioned by 'Paul', the 3.3v is not required.

Here is a search string for what you require "4-Pin IDE Molex to 15-Pin
Serial ATA SATA"

Example;
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Pin-IDE-Molex-to-15-Pin-Serial-ATA-SATA-Hard-Drive-Power-Adapter-Cable-2pcs/232601974008?hash=item36282874f8:g:EJoAAOSwiHpaL5D-

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

[]

Post by Patrick

Post by Frank Weg
What is generally the best idea when you need 1 more flat SATA power?

As mentioned by 'Paul', the 3.3v is not required.
Here is a search string for what you require "4-Pin IDE Molex to 15-Pin
Serial ATA SATA"
Example;
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Pin-IDE-Molex-to-15-Pin-Serial-ATA-SATA-Hard-
Drive-Power-Adapter-Cable-2pcs/232601974008?hash=item36282874f8:g:EJoAAO
SwiHpaL5D-

I think that string might exclude too many: I'd just use "Molex to
SATA", unless that generated too many.

[Frank Weg]

Post by Patrick
As mentioned by 'Paul', the 3.3v is not required.

You are right!

I put in the new WD Blue hard disk and it works fine at SATA2-0 as the boot
disk (with the SATA power connector), and each of the other two disks
independently work fine as ancillary disks - but until I pick up the cable,
I'm one power cable short.

Now I'm just curious if it matters that I pull off the SATA data cable from
the one disk that doesn't have power?

I've been swapping both connectors each time I need data from those two old
disks, but since I have plenty of SATA data cables, would it be "safe" to
just leave the SATA data cable on the one disk that doesn't yet have a
power connector?

I googled and didn't find anyone that reported a problem but I'm just
asking about your experience where I already know it's "safer" to NOT have
the data cable without a power cable.

But I was just wondering if anyone knew if it's literally safe to have just
the data cable on a disk?

[Paul]

Post by Frank Weg
But I was just wondering if anyone knew if it's literally safe to have just
the data cable on a disk?

AFAIK, SATA data lanes are capacitively coupled.

Leaving the cable connected, shouldn't leave DC bias
on them.

GND GND
TX+ ---||-------------------- RX+
TX- ---||-------------------- RX-
GND GND
RX+ --------------------||--- TX+
RX- --------------------||--- TX-
GND GND

That's reasonably fool-proof. ESD still wouldn't
be very healthy for it.

Since the PCB on disk drives is turned upside-down,
it's not possible to easily verify this by visual examination
near the connector say (i.e. look for the two matched caps).
On modern drives, you can only see the solder-side.

*******

In years past, data connections between subsystems were
DC-coupled. If the power went off on one subsystem,
current would flow from CMOS I/Os on the powered systems,
into the unpowered systems. Sufficient current can flow,
to charge the rails on the unpowered subsystem, and it
continues to run.

We got a great demo in the lab one day. Our resident genius
in the lab, he was in charge of thinking up crazy failure
scenarios. So while we're watching, he shuts off the power
on something he's not supposed to shut off. And... the
second subsystem, the status LEDs are *still* lit, and
"sane looking". The subsystem runs off a 5V supply, and
the DC leakage from the powered system managed to charge
the rails in the unpowered subsystem to 3.6V, which was
barely enough to cause it to be fully functional and
running! It was funny as hell. Especially the look
on his face, when it doesn't (really) shut off...

Today, if called upon, we fix that with transmission
gates, and those can cut off the current flow. With
an extra I/O delay of 250pS or so.

If the coding scheme allows it, being able to capacitively
couple the I/O is a nicer kind of bound. Some early fiber
optics bits and pieces, used to use 8B10B for that reason,
making receiver design a bit easier (receiver doesn't have
to work all the way down to DC).

PCI Express has switched to 128b/130b for revision 3, but
I don't know what that means for the spectrum of the signals
as it's running. It's probably still capacitively coupled.
My guess is, the electrical properties aren't going to be
nearly as nice. Since all the standards tend to evolve and
share ideas at the same time, you'd expect SATA to be
tempted to do that also.

And that coding scheme is stretched pretty far. If
they no longer like that one, the next option would be
"scramblers". Which have almost zero overhead, and the
properties aren't nicely bounded.

HTH,
Paul

[VanguardLH]

Post by Frank Weg
I bought a hard drive for a dual-boot Win7/Win10 desktop, and bought the
SATA cable, but I didn't realize until I got home that the only unused
power connector available out of the 530Watt power supply is the round-pin
4-pin molex type and not the flat wide SATA power connector.

Molex to SATA power adapter:
Loading Image...
Loading Image...

Or use a Y-adapter to make 1 SATA power connector into 2:
Loading Image...

[Lucifer Morningstar]

On Fri, 1 Jun 2018 05:04:32 +0000 (UTC), Frank Weg

Post by Frank Weg
I bought a hard drive for a dual-boot Win7/Win10 desktop, and bought the
SATA cable, but I didn't realize until I got home that the only unused
power connector available out of the 530Watt power supply is the round-pin
4-pin molex type and not the flat wide SATA power connector.
There are only 3 flat SATA power cables coming out of the power supply.
+ One flat SATA power cable is going to the dvd drive
+ One flat SATA power cable goes to disk1
+ One flat SATA power cable goes to disk2
But I just put a third disk in place today which needs a power connection.
Googling I saw that the flat wide SATA power connector has 3.3 volts (in
addition to 5 & 12 volts) while the 4-pin molex does not have 3.3 volts (it
only has the 5 and 12 volts).
The hard drive is a brand new 1TB WD Blue which doesn't say on the box or
in the instructions if it needs the missing 3.3VDC.
But I need to buy "something" to power the new hard disk drive.
Either a new power supply (which is probably overkill) because this power
supply only has 3 SATA flat power cables, or an adapter from molex to SATA,
or an adapter from one SATA to two SATA cable ends.
What is generally the best idea when you need 1 more flat SATA power?

SATA drives still have the round pin power connector or you could
use an adapter.

[Char Jackson]

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 18:15:06 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar

Post by Lucifer Morningstar
On Fri, 1 Jun 2018 05:04:32 +0000 (UTC), Frank Weg

Post by Frank Weg
Either a new power supply (which is probably overkill) because this power
supply only has 3 SATA flat power cables, or an adapter from molex to SATA,
or an adapter from one SATA to two SATA cable ends.
What is generally the best idea when you need 1 more flat SATA power?

SATA drives still have the round pin power connector or you could
use an adapter.

Round pin power connector? As in Molex? I haven't seen a SATA drive with
a Molex power connector since about 2008 or so. I think that was a very
short-lived idea.

[VanguardLH]

Post by Char Jackson

Post by Lucifer Morningstar

Post by Frank Weg
Either a new power supply (which is probably overkill) because this
power supply only has 3 SATA flat power cables, or an adapter from
molex to SATA, or an adapter from one SATA to two SATA cable ends.
What is generally the best idea when you need 1 more flat SATA power?

SATA drives still have the round pin power connector or you could
use an adapter.

Round pin power connector? As in Molex? I haven't seen a SATA drive with
a Molex power connector since about 2008 or so. I think that was a very
short-lived idea.

I have. Such SATA drives have the SATA data connector, SATA power
connector, and a 4-pin Molex connector. As I recall, you must use only
ONE of the power connectors to prevent feedback to the PSU through the
other power connector.

SATA drive with both the SATA power and Molex power connectors:
Loading Image...
Loading Image...

SATA HDD with just the Molex power connector:
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-e49aedc87f8e60710f1cd9c7ff71f5a7-c

However, it's been a long time since I've seen those. When SATA was
getting introduced into the consumer-grade market, and because PSUs were
not generally providing SATA power connectors or too few of them
(because PATA drives were still the massive majority of drive types at
that time), the Molex power connector was included. Users wanting to
use SATA drives (mostly because it was new so it must be better, uh huh)
in their old computers didn't have PSUs with many SATA power connectors,
if any. The mobo or a card had to have the SATA data ports but the old
PSU might only have Molex power connectors. There was a period of
crossover from PATA to SATA, and drive makers still wanted to market
their SATA drives to the market share of old computer users.

I didn't bother to verify Lucy's claim that there are "still" HDDs
around with a Molex power connector. I didn't notice any being
currently sold at Newegg; however, Newegg doesn't sell everything
currently available, so I've had to go elsewhere for more unique
hardware.

[Lucifer Morningstar]

Post by VanguardLH
I didn't bother to verify Lucy's claim that there are "still" HDDs
around with a Molex power connector. I didn't notice any being
currently sold at Newegg; however, Newegg doesn't sell everything
currently available, so I've had to go elsewhere for more unique
hardware.

More unique is impossible as unique means one only.

[Bennett Price]

Post by Lucifer Morningstar

Post by VanguardLH
I didn't bother to verify Lucy's claim that there are "still" HDDs
around with a Molex power connector. I didn't notice any being
currently sold at Newegg; however, Newegg doesn't sell everything
currently available, so I've had to go elsewhere for more unique
hardware.

More unique is impossible as unique means one only.

Just get a molex-sata adapter cable: https://goo.gl/JZWkGY


https://smile.amazon.com/Power-Cable-Adapter-Female-8-inch/dp/B07BQFKTG7/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1528042895&sr=8-2-spons&keywords=molex+sata+adapter&psc=1

[VanguardLH]

Post by Bennett Price

Post by Lucifer Morningstar

Post by VanguardLH
I didn't bother to verify Lucy's claim that there are "still" HDDs
around with a Molex power connector. I didn't notice any being
currently sold at Newegg; however, Newegg doesn't sell everything
currently available, so I've had to go elsewhere for more unique
hardware.

More unique is impossible as unique means one only.

Just get a molex-sata adapter cable: https://goo.gl/JZWkGY
https://smile.amazon.com/Power-Cable-Adapter-Female-8-inch/dp/B07BQFKTG7/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1528042895&sr=8-2-spons&keywords=molex+sata+adapter&psc=1

Which I and others already previously mentioned. I only replied in THIS
subthread to Char's inquiry about SATA drives with Molex power
connectors.

[PeterC]

Post by Lucifer Morningstar

Post by VanguardLH
I didn't bother to verify Lucy's claim that there are "still" HDDs
around with a Molex power connector. I didn't notice any being
currently sold at Newegg; however, Newegg doesn't sell everything
currently available, so I've had to go elsewhere for more unique
hardware.

More unique is impossible as unique means one only.

Useful though - my house is one of four that are 'identical', but there are
small differences, e.g. Where I put a large loft-hatch in my house would be
impossible to do exactly the same next door due to a major joist being about
an inch along.
This means that each of the four is unique (in more than piffling details)
but the one with two rooms knocked into one is 'more' unique.
It's the difference between 'hard' terminology (which should always be used
for technical subjects) and heuman 'fuzzy' terminology. That's why computers
will never quite manage to be like us, although the Turing test was passed
many years ago, when 'help' lines were first 'manned' by automata
indistinguishable from computers. However, the other way round...

[Sam E]

On 06/02/2018 02:47 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

[snip]

Post by VanguardLH
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-e49aedc87f8e60710f1cd9c7ff71f5a7-c

So what looks like a SATA power connector must not work.

[snip]

[Paul]

Post by Sam E
[snip]

Post by VanguardLH
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-e49aedc87f8e60710f1cd9c7ff71f5a7-c

So what looks like a SATA power connector must not work.
[snip]

No, both power connectors work.

But the recommendation is not to connect a SATA 15 pin
and a Molex 4 pin at the same time. And the "corner case"
for this is so obscure, it's hardly worth mentioning.

Normal I/O looms will be using the same 12Vn output for
powering drives. All the power will be coming from the
same 12V and there won't be a loop.

There were a few supplies with four independent 12V transformers
inside. This would give a 12V1, 12V2, 12V3, 12V4 supply. It was
very confusing as to which supply went where. The owner of such
a supply, was well advised to find a block diagram of the looms,
and make sure it was understood before installing the supply.

If (somehow) one drive power source ran off 12V3 and one off 12V4,
you wouldn't want current flow between the two connectors,
because it could burn something (burn the pins on a connector).

It's for that obscure reason, you're not supposed to plug
in the SATA 15 pin and the Molex 4 pin on a drive like
that, at the same time. The chances of that happening
are pretty damn close to zero (cross-flow).

Now, a person *could* put two separate ATX supplies in
a machine, and run 12V from one supply to the SATA, and
12V from a second supply to the Molex. So that's another
way you could encourage cross-flow.

Paul

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Paul

Post by Sam E
[snip]

Post by VanguardLH
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-e49aedc87f8e60710f1cd9c7ff71f5a7-c

So what looks like a SATA power connector must not work.
[snip]

No, both power connectors work.

I think Sam E was just saying that, if that is the case, VanguardLH's
word "just" is incorrect.

Post by Paul
But the recommendation is not to connect a SATA 15 pin
and a Molex 4 pin at the same time. And the "corner case"
for this is so obscure, it's hardly worth mentioning.

[]
Separate 12V supplies.

[Sam E]

On 06/03/2018 03:59 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

[snip]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Paul

Post by VanguardLH
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-e49aedc87f8e60710f1cd9c7ff71f5a7-c

 So what looks like a SATA power connector must not work.
 [snip]

No, both power connectors work.

I think Sam E was just saying that, if that is the case, VanguardLH's
word "just" is incorrect.

yes

[snip]

[VanguardLH]

Post by Sam E

Post by VanguardLH
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-e49aedc87f8e60710f1cd9c7ff71f5a7-c

So what looks like a SATA power connector must not work.

Why I mentioned that only ONE of the power connectors should be used on
those SATA drives. BOTH are usable but use only ONE. Besides, there is
no value in using both power connectors at the same time. I suppose
some noobs would see an unused connector and just must fill it.