Discussion:
Why does Xtgold use so much CPU? (W7-32)
(too old to reply)
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-05-29 14:05:22 UTC
Permalink
Old hands may remember the old file manager utility from DOS days - gave
a graphical (though in character mode) tree representation of the
filesystem, as well as a few utilities. Well, I'd still been using it in
XP - mainly for a _real_ (or more real, anyway) view of what's on the
disc, but also its hex viewer. (I also use its editor - 1-word - to edit
my quotes file; its limit of just under 64k makes me keep the quote file
fresh.)

I'd been disappointed when it wouldn't work under W7, as I'd seen at
work and on my other W7 machine - but delighted to find it _does_ work
on W7-32.

However, it seems to nearly (not quite) rail one of my cores - even when
it's sitting there not actually doing anything! (Just opening it; it
opens in a character mode window.) I hear the fan speed up, and sure
enough, if I look in Task Manager, core 1 or 3 (of 4 virtual cores on
this machine) is very busy. Not flatlining: the graph is going up and
down a lot. Closing XTG - either via its own way, cleanly (Q then Y) or
by clicking on the close button - returns the CPU and fan to normal.

I'm not _bothered_, nor wanting to get into deep diagnostics; however,
it _did_ (and does) puzzle me that an old DOS utility will use so much.
(It's a .com file, not a .exe, if that makes any difference.)

Anyone else use it and noticed this?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I'm the oldest woman on primetime not baking cakes.
- Anne Robinson, RT 2015/8/15-21
Auric__
2018-05-29 19:10:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Old hands may remember the old file manager utility from DOS days - gave
a graphical (though in character mode) tree representation of the
filesystem, as well as a few utilities. Well, I'd still been using it in
XP - mainly for a _real_ (or more real, anyway) view of what's on the
disc, but also its hex viewer. (I also use its editor - 1-word - to edit
my quotes file; its limit of just under 64k makes me keep the quote file
fresh.)
F*** that. I've got 16,000+ entries in mine.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I'd been disappointed when it wouldn't work under W7, as I'd seen at
work and on my other W7 machine - but delighted to find it _does_ work
on W7-32.
However, it seems to nearly (not quite) rail one of my cores - even when
it's sitting there not actually doing anything! (Just opening it; it
opens in a character mode window.) I hear the fan speed up, and sure
enough, if I look in Task Manager, core 1 or 3 (of 4 virtual cores on
this machine) is very busy. Not flatlining: the graph is going up and
down a lot. Closing XTG - either via its own way, cleanly (Q then Y) or
by clicking on the close button - returns the CPU and fan to normal.
I'm not _bothered_, nor wanting to get into deep diagnostics; however,
it _did_ (and does) puzzle me that an old DOS utility will use so much.
(It's a .com file, not a .exe, if that makes any difference.)
Anyone else use it and noticed this?
My install is 64-bit so I can't check directly on the hardware, but I did
some checking in VMware.

- NT 3.51: Normally almost nothing, with apparently-random spikes to 100%.
- XP 32-bit: 100%.
- 10 32-bit: Fluctates, but generally around 80%.

My only guess is that XTGold doesn't recognize multi-tasking environments
and expects to be the only app running.


There are a few Windows XTree clones that you may want to look into. The two
I'd suggest:

- ZTree, a commercial (US$29.95) work-alike:

http://www.ztree.com/

- UnixTree, a free open-source work-alike (which includes a mostly-
functional Win32 version):

http://www.unixtree.org/

The XTree Fan Page has a list of clones, but for Windows they also recommend
ZTree:

http://www.xtreefanpage.org/lowres/x63clone.htm


Personally, I switched to what's called "orthodox" (or dual-pane) file
managers (i.e. Norton Commander clones) many years ago and I'm much happier
with them. The keyboard shortcuts take some getting used to, but beyond
that, I think they just work better. On Windows I use the old free version
of Servant Salamander (now called Altap Salamander):

https://www.altap.cz/
ftp://ftp.altap.cz/pub/altap/salamand/salam152.zip

...or Midnight Commander everywhere else (which is include with most *nix
systems).
--
I figure that if I can get a parser to recognize and deal with I-T-L,
I can get it to do the same with IF-THEN-ELSE. And I can.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-05-29 20:18:01 UTC
Permalink
In message <***@85.214.115.223>,
Auric__ <***@email.address> writes:
[]
Post by Auric__
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
my quotes file; its limit of just under 64k makes me keep the quote file
fresh.)
F*** that. I've got 16,000+ entries in mine.
I could use Notepad+ or any one of the myriad other text editors. I
_like_ having to decide which quotes don't seem so
funny/interesting/whatever now as they did when I added them.
[]
Post by Auric__
My install is 64-bit so I can't check directly on the hardware, but I did
some checking in VMware.
Thanks!
Post by Auric__
- NT 3.51: Normally almost nothing, with apparently-random spikes to 100%.
- XP 32-bit: 100%.
- 10 32-bit: Fluctates, but generally around 80%.
My only guess is that XTGold doesn't recognize multi-tasking environments
and expects to be the only app running.
But even if that _is_ the case, what is it actually _doing_!
Post by Auric__
There are a few Windows XTree clones that you may want to look into. The two
http://www.ztree.com/
I did have a play with that a decade or two ago - looked quite good,
though didn't _quite_ have the responsive feel of the original. Could do
long filenames, though, I think.
Post by Auric__
- UnixTree, a free open-source work-alike (which includes a mostly-
http://www.unixtree.org/
The XTree Fan Page has a list of clones, but for Windows they also recommend
http://www.xtreefanpage.org/lowres/x63clone.htm
Yes, I think it's the closest.
Post by Auric__
Personally, I switched to what's called "orthodox" (or dual-pane) file
managers (i.e. Norton Commander clones) many years ago and I'm much happier
with them. The keyboard shortcuts take some getting used to, but beyond
that, I think they just work better. On Windows I use the old free version
https://www.altap.cz/
ftp://ftp.altap.cz/pub/altap/salamand/salam152.zip
...or Midnight Commander everywhere else (which is include with most *nix
systems).
I've marked your post as keep to keep the above link. I have played with
a couple of the explorer alternatives - one with a 2 in it, something
like Xplorer2 was it?, at least one other; on the whole, I never got
into them enough to really find much advantage over a couple of Explorer
windows. (I'm not saying they don't _have_ advantages, just that I
haven't _needed_ the extras for long enough or often enough to get over
the initial learning hurdle.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Everyone is entitled to an *informed* opinion." - Harlan Ellison
Auric__
2018-05-30 07:25:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Auric__
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
my quotes file; its limit of just under 64k makes me keep the quote
file fresh.)
F*** that. I've got 16,000+ entries in mine.
I could use Notepad+ or any one of the myriad other text editors. I
_like_ having to decide which quotes don't seem so
funny/interesting/whatever now as they did when I added them.
I trim them only as I see them. And sometimes the "bad" ones are the ones
worth keeping.

My quotes are split by subject, source, or whatever into several hundred
text files in a 100+-subdirectory tree. (Only 2 of those files are too large
for XTG's editor.) I have a batch that rolls them into one big 1.2mb
quotefile, and then a program I wrote sorts them (to make finding duplicates
easier).
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Auric__
My install is 64-bit so I can't check directly on the hardware, but I
did some checking in VMware.
Thanks!
Np.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Auric__
- NT 3.51: Normally almost nothing, with apparently-random spikes to
100%. - XP 32-bit: 100%.
- 10 32-bit: Fluctates, but generally around 80%.
My only guess is that XTGold doesn't recognize multi-tasking
environments and expects to be the only app running.
But even if that _is_ the case, what is it actually _doing_!
Shrug. I never had reason to check its cpu usage under plain DOS, so for all
I know, that's "normal" for it.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Auric__
There are a few Windows XTree clones that you may want to look into. The
http://www.ztree.com/
I did have a play with that a decade or two ago - looked quite good,
though didn't _quite_ have the responsive feel of the original. Could do
long filenames, though, I think.
Yes. My only complaint was the "not free" part, but meh.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Auric__
Personally, I switched to what's called "orthodox" (or dual-pane) file
managers (i.e. Norton Commander clones) many years ago and I'm much
happier with them. The keyboard shortcuts take some getting used to, but
beyond that, I think they just work better. On Windows I use the old
https://www.altap.cz/
ftp://ftp.altap.cz/pub/altap/salamand/salam152.zip
...or Midnight Commander everywhere else (which is include with most
*nix systems).
I forgot to mention muCommander, which I use on my Macs. It's written in
Java and is therefore cross-platform:

http://www.mucommander.com/
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I've marked your post as keep to keep the above link. I have played with
a couple of the explorer alternatives - one with a 2 in it, something
like Xplorer2 was it?, at least one other; on the whole, I never got
into them enough to really find much advantage over a couple of Explorer
windows. (I'm not saying they don't _have_ advantages, just that I
haven't _needed_ the extras for long enough or often enough to get over
the initial learning hurdle.)
Wikipedia has a decent comparison of various file managers here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_file_managers

You might want to poke through there a bit.


If you ever used WinFile, the default vaguely-XTG-ish file manager under
Win3x, you might be interested in hearing that it was recently open sourced
by Microsoft, and has been updated to work under modern 32-bit systems. It
works on my Win7x64 system just fine. (I don't use it, but it works.)

https://github.com/Microsoft/winfile/releases
--
Brain gone bad.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-05-30 14:23:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Auric__
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Auric__
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
my quotes file; its limit of just under 64k makes me keep the quote
file fresh.)
F*** that. I've got 16,000+ entries in mine.
I could use Notepad+ or any one of the myriad other text editors. I
_like_ having to decide which quotes don't seem so
funny/interesting/whatever now as they did when I added them.
I trim them only as I see them. And sometimes the "bad" ones are the ones
worth keeping.
My quotes are split by subject, source, or whatever into several hundred
text files in a 100+-subdirectory tree. (Only 2 of those files are too large
for XTG's editor.) I have a batch that rolls them into one big 1.2mb
quotefile, and then a program I wrote sorts them (to make finding duplicates
easier).
I just keep them alphabetically. I _only_ use them for .sig, so like to
keep them fresh - I've seen some other people's which seem
amusing/interesting the first time, but they aren't the twentieth. I
have a very ancient DOS utility (TomQuote - 1995 or before) that picks
one at random and adds it to the fixed part of my .sig file; I have that
set to run at boot and at 42 minutes past each hour, to keep my posts
varied.
[]
Post by Auric__
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Auric__
My only guess is that XTGold doesn't recognize multi-tasking
environments and expects to be the only app running.
But even if that _is_ the case, what is it actually _doing_!
Shrug. I never had reason to check its cpu usage under plain DOS, so for all
I know, that's "normal" for it.
But all it _can_ be doing when just sitting there is waiting for a
keypress! I don't _think_ it can have been a CPU hog in DOS days,
because you could - and many did - run things from within it, i. e. use
it as a sort of shell: in fact where I worked, you were more likely to
see a PC screen showing the blue of XTree than a plain DOS prompt
screen. And in those days of few-tens-of-MHz CPUs (single core of
course), I think we'd have noticed if it had been a CPU hog. I can only
guess that there's some adverse interaction between it and the DOS
emulation (perhaps it's the graphics part?) that 7 etc. provide.

[Ztree]
Post by Auric__
Yes. My only complaint was the "not free" part, but meh.
XTree wasn't free either, officially!
[]
Post by Auric__
If you ever used WinFile, the default vaguely-XTG-ish file manager under
Win3x, you might be interested in hearing that it was recently open sourced
by Microsoft, and has been updated to work under modern 32-bit systems. It
works on my Win7x64 system just fine. (I don't use it, but it works.)
https://github.com/Microsoft/winfile/releases
I did use it, and was aware it would still run under '9x and later (I
wasn't aware that it ever _didn't_ work under modern ones, not having
had any great desire to use it over Explorer - I think there _was_ some
advantage some said it had, but I don't remember what). Interesting that
MS have released the source, though; I thought they _never_ released
source of anything (many claiming because they're still using so much of
it!).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Bother," said Pooh, as he tasted the bacon in his sandwich.
Char Jackson
2018-05-30 14:58:39 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 30 May 2018 15:23:05 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I just keep them alphabetically. I _only_ use them for .sig, so like to
keep them fresh - I've seen some other people's which seem
amusing/interesting the first time, but they aren't the twentieth. I
have a very ancient DOS utility (TomQuote - 1995 or before) that picks
one at random and adds it to the fixed part of my .sig file; I have that
set to run at boot and at 42 minutes past each hour, to keep my posts
varied.
42. Of course. It's always 42. That's the answer to everything.

<https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/history/42-the-answer-to-life-the-universe-and-everything-2205734.html>
--
Char Jackson
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-05-30 15:21:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Char Jackson
On Wed, 30 May 2018 15:23:05 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I just keep them alphabetically. I _only_ use them for .sig, so like to
keep them fresh - I've seen some other people's which seem
amusing/interesting the first time, but they aren't the twentieth. I
have a very ancient DOS utility (TomQuote - 1995 or before) that picks
one at random and adds it to the fixed part of my .sig file; I have that
set to run at boot and at 42 minutes past each hour, to keep my posts
varied.
42. Of course. It's always 42. That's the answer to everything.
<https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/history/42-the-answer-to-life-
the-universe-and-everything-2205734.html>
That's why I chose it, of course. 101010 rules ...
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Veni Vidi Vacuum [I came, I saw, It sucked] - ***@saslimited.demon.co.uk, 1998
Auric__
2018-05-30 15:28:02 UTC
Permalink
[snip]
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Auric__
My quotes are split by subject, source, or whatever into several hundred
text files in a 100+-subdirectory tree. (Only 2 of those files are too
large for XTG's editor.) I have a batch that rolls them into one big
1.2mb quotefile, and then a program I wrote sorts them (to make finding
duplicates easier).
I just keep them alphabetically. I _only_ use them for .sig, so like to
keep them fresh - I've seen some other people's which seem
amusing/interesting the first time, but they aren't the twentieth. I
have a very ancient DOS utility (TomQuote - 1995 or before) that picks
one at random and adds it to the fixed part of my .sig file; I have that
set to run at boot and at 42 minutes past each hour, to keep my posts
varied.
I wrote my own program for that, as well. It runs every minute.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Auric__
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Auric__
My only guess is that XTGold doesn't recognize multi-tasking
environments and expects to be the only app running.
But even if that _is_ the case, what is it actually _doing_!
Shrug. I never had reason to check its cpu usage under plain DOS, so for
all I know, that's "normal" for it.
But all it _can_ be doing when just sitting there is waiting for a
keypress! I don't _think_ it can have been a CPU hog in DOS days,
because you could - and many did - run things from within it, i. e. use
it as a sort of shell: in fact where I worked, you were more likely to
see a PC screen showing the blue of XTree than a plain DOS prompt
screen. And in those days of few-tens-of-MHz CPUs (single core of
course), I think we'd have noticed if it had been a CPU hog. I can only
guess that there's some adverse interaction between it and the DOS
emulation (perhaps it's the graphics part?) that 7 etc. provide.
Without running it through a debugger, I couldn't say for sure.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
XTree wasn't free either, officially!
My copy came from my mother, who bought it in the 80's. Free for me, or
close enough.

[snip]
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Interesting that
MS have released the source, though; I thought they _never_ released
source of anything (many claiming because they're still using so much of
it!).
They released the source for MS-DOS 1.0 and Word for Windows 1.1a a few
years ago. Not "open source", mind you, but more "released for historical
interest". See here:

http://www.computerhistory.org/atchm/tag/source-code/

(That page also has sources for things like Photoshop 1.0 and the Eudora
email client.)

MS has open-sourced numerous things over the years. Their github page
includes 62 pages of projects:

https://github.com/Microsoft
--
I hunger after independence. Strengthen freedom's reign.
j***@astraweb.com
2018-08-11 13:14:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Auric__
Yes. My only complaint was the "not free" part, but meh.
XTree wasn't free either, officially!
[]
True. But this hails from the days when all you had to do was drop the directory from the computer it
was on, to a floppy, and you had it...... Actually, i used to carry a copy of it in my glovebox.....
I am still using a ztree version in win 7 though in the last few years i have started using windows
explorer quite often. I don't think the xtree's run under win 7 or if they do they crash right soon
after starting.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-08-11 13:49:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Char Jackson
On Wed, 30 May 2018 15:23:05 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Auric__
Yes. My only complaint was the "not free" part, but meh.
XTree wasn't free either, officially!
[]
True. But this hails from the days when all you had to do was drop the
directory from the computer it
was on, to a floppy, and you had it...... Actually, i used to carry
Although your copy had the name of the original purchaser embedded (and
appearing at the bottom of some screens) (though that could easily be
found and tweaked with a hex editor) - though as the original was only
on two or three floppies that weren't copy-protected, most people
"obtained" a set of install discs anyway. [IIRR, I had an "official"
set, but can't remember whether I actually bought it.]
Post by Char Jackson
a copy of it in my glovebox.....
I am still using a ztree version in win 7 though in the last few years
i have started using windows
explorer quite often. I don't think the xtree's run under win 7 or if
they do they crash right soon
after starting.
In my limited experience: not under 7-64, OK under 7-32, apart from the
tendency to suddenly use a lot of resources even if not apparently doing
anything, hence the start of this thread).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The average age of a single mum in this country is 37
- Jane Rackham, RT 2016/5/28-6/3
Diesel
2018-06-02 01:14:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I'm not _bothered_, nor wanting to get into deep diagnostics;
however, it _did_ (and does) puzzle me that an old DOS utility
will use so much. (It's a .com file, not a .exe, if that makes any
difference.)
It's an old DOS program that isn't aware of, nor has any real way of
sharing resources with other applications that are running. As a
result, it will consume resources (since it expects to be able to
consume all of them and release some as you run apps thru it via a
click or two) even when it's idle, because it's keyboard polling
routines don't understand time slicing or any other way of sharing
resources or giving them up for others to use.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Anyone else use it and noticed this?
It's normal when the OS has to provide an emulated environment for an
older actual DOS based program for the reasons stated above. You could
do a few things when writing DOS apps to be easier on system resources,
but, you couldn't entirely eliminate the resource sharing issue.
--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit here:
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
===================================================
Cat: Murphy's way of saying 'Nice Furniture!'
Loading...