Discussion:
Reading Apple Files with a Windows Machine?
(too old to reply)
Boris
2018-06-28 21:45:21 UTC
Permalink
My daughter called me about this yesterday.

She has a 2009-2010 iMac running Snow Leopard. Well, it was running, but
about five years ago, the thing would not fire up, nothing, no sound of a
spinning hard drive, no video on monitor, nothing. It was like it was
not plugged in. She took it to the Apple geniuses, who told her her the
motherboard must be dead, so she put it on the shelf circa 2013. It was
out of warranty.

She now wants to get some files, mostly pics/videos, from the hard drive.

With the help of google, she managed to remove the hard drive. It's a
2.5" 500GB Seagate SATA. She connected it to my adapter/converter cable,
similar to this one

https://www.amazon.com/Generic-Adapter-Converter-Optical-
External/dp/B002OV1VJW

and to her Win10 HP laptop. The drive spun up, but nothing popped up on
her screen. According to this article:

https://www.howtogeek.com/252111/how-to-read-a-mac-formatted-drive-on-a-
windows-pc/

she was expecting to get something like do you want to format this drive?

She also tried connecting to a Win7 machine, but no luck there, either.

She has not yet installed HFS+/HFSExplorer. She is going to wait until I
can help (tomorrow). But, if we are able to access the Apple hard drive,
can we move files to a Windows PC, and also open them?

Thanks.
Paul
2018-06-28 22:09:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boris
My daughter called me about this yesterday.
She has a 2009-2010 iMac running Snow Leopard. Well, it was running, but
about five years ago, the thing would not fire up, nothing, no sound of a
spinning hard drive, no video on monitor, nothing. It was like it was
not plugged in. She took it to the Apple geniuses, who told her her the
motherboard must be dead, so she put it on the shelf circa 2013. It was
out of warranty.
She now wants to get some files, mostly pics/videos, from the hard drive.
With the help of google, she managed to remove the hard drive. It's a
2.5" 500GB Seagate SATA. She connected it to my adapter/converter cable,
similar to this one
https://www.amazon.com/Generic-Adapter-Converter-Optical-
External/dp/B002OV1VJW
and to her Win10 HP laptop. The drive spun up, but nothing popped up on
https://www.howtogeek.com/252111/how-to-read-a-mac-formatted-drive-on-a-
windows-pc/
she was expecting to get something like do you want to format this drive?
She also tried connecting to a Win7 machine, but no luck there, either.
She has not yet installed HFS+/HFSExplorer. She is going to wait until I
can help (tomorrow). But, if we are able to access the Apple hard drive,
can we move files to a Windows PC, and also open them?
Thanks.
You have to get a response from the hardware,
before any tools are going to work.

You can open Disk Management (diskmgmt.msc) and
see if a new entry is present there.

You can use USBTreeView to spot a change in USB
when the device is plugged in.

https://www.uwe-sieber.de/usbtreeview_e.html

The SATA device has to have power delivered via the
SATA 15p plug, for it to work. You need to plug
in the AC adapter, and use the SATA power plug
from the adapter.

A new entry should show up. For example, you might
see an entry with a VID/PID, yet it forms no "endpoints".
If the USB won't set up a communications path (because the
USB chip is defective), then USBTreeView will
have an entry (with no "endpoints" listed),
but Device Manager (or Disk Management) won't have an entry.

I've had a case where the external adapter firmware
got erased (by the usage of SeaTools), and I had
to reload the firmware before it worked properly
as an enclosure again.

The drive must successfully spin up, before the
USB enclosure chip will tell anyone about it. If
the USB chip can get a "drive ID" from the thing,
that's where it should start to come alive.
If the drive is not responding to commands
from the USB chip, then you won't be able
to see the drive on the USB side either.

Paul
Wolf K
2018-06-29 00:57:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boris
My daughter called me about this yesterday.
She has a 2009-2010 iMac running Snow Leopard. Well, it was running, but
about five years ago, the thing would not fire up, nothing, no sound of a
spinning hard drive, no video on monitor, nothing. It was like it was
not plugged in. She took it to the Apple geniuses, who told her her the
motherboard must be dead, so she put it on the shelf circa 2013. It was
out of warranty.
She now wants to get some files, mostly pics/videos, from the hard drive.
With the help of google, she managed to remove the hard drive. It's a
2.5" 500GB Seagate SATA. She connected it to my adapter/converter cable,
similar to this one
https://www.amazon.com/Generic-Adapter-Converter-Optical-
External/dp/B002OV1VJW
and to her Win10 HP laptop. The drive spun up, but nothing popped up on
https://www.howtogeek.com/252111/how-to-read-a-mac-formatted-drive-on-a-
windows-pc/
she was expecting to get something like do you want to format this drive?
She also tried connecting to a Win7 machine, but no luck there, either.
She has not yet installed HFS+/HFSExplorer. She is going to wait until I
can help (tomorrow). But, if we are able to access the Apple hard drive,
can we move files to a Windows PC, and also open them?
Thanks.
It looks like she'll have to connect the drive via USB. So you need a
SATA to USB adapter, or an external HDD case with USB. The latter would
be useful since it would make the old HDD an external drive, which is
always handy.

See this article (not done it myself, so can't advise you further):

https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/how-to/windows/how-read-mac-os-hfs-drives-in-windows-for-free-image-3369574/

Good luck,
--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
What you choose to do with your body will, inevitably, have
psychological consequences.
Paul
2018-06-29 01:18:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wolf K
Post by Boris
My daughter called me about this yesterday.
She has a 2009-2010 iMac running Snow Leopard. Well, it was running, but
about five years ago, the thing would not fire up, nothing, no sound of a
spinning hard drive, no video on monitor, nothing. It was like it was
not plugged in. She took it to the Apple geniuses, who told her her the
motherboard must be dead, so she put it on the shelf circa 2013. It was
out of warranty.
She now wants to get some files, mostly pics/videos, from the hard drive.
With the help of google, she managed to remove the hard drive. It's a
2.5" 500GB Seagate SATA. She connected it to my adapter/converter cable,
similar to this one
https://www.amazon.com/Generic-Adapter-Converter-Optical-
External/dp/B002OV1VJW
and to her Win10 HP laptop. The drive spun up, but nothing popped up on
https://www.howtogeek.com/252111/how-to-read-a-mac-formatted-drive-on-a-
windows-pc/
she was expecting to get something like do you want to format this drive?
She also tried connecting to a Win7 machine, but no luck there, either.
She has not yet installed HFS+/HFSExplorer. She is going to wait until I
can help (tomorrow). But, if we are able to access the Apple hard drive,
can we move files to a Windows PC, and also open them?
Thanks.
It looks like she'll have to connect the drive via USB. So you need a
SATA to USB adapter, or an external HDD case with USB. The latter would
be useful since it would make the old HDD an external drive, which is
always handy.
https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/how-to/windows/how-read-mac-os-hfs-drives-in-windows-for-free-image-3369574/
Good luck,
But that's what Boris showed in a link.

This is the converter already tried.

https://www.amazon.com/Generic-Adapter-Converter-Optical-External/dp/B002OV1VJW

Checking Disk Management or Device Manager might show
some evidence it's being seen.

If the drive didn't have power, that would exhibit
the same symptoms. The power cable might not be
plugged in.

Since those adapters sometimes fail (usually the wall
adapter), testing with an "expendable" Windows drive
to see if it still appears, would prove the hardware
works.

Paul
Ant
2018-06-29 05:46:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
But that's what Boris showed in a link.
This is the converter already tried.
https://www.amazon.com/Generic-Adapter-Converter-Optical-External/dp/B002OV1VJW
Checking Disk Management or Device Manager might show
some evidence it's being seen.
If the drive didn't have power, that would exhibit
the same symptoms. The power cable might not be
plugged in.
Since those adapters sometimes fail (usually the wall
adapter), testing with an "expendable" Windows drive
to see if it still appears, would prove the hardware
works.
Wow, that almost look like Vantec's I am using.
--
Quote of the Week: "It's them!... Not THEM, the giant ants?!" --Girl and Crow
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
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Paul
2018-06-29 06:51:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ant
Post by Paul
But that's what Boris showed in a link.
This is the converter already tried.
https://www.amazon.com/Generic-Adapter-Converter-Optical-External/dp/B002OV1VJW
Checking Disk Management or Device Manager might show
some evidence it's being seen.
If the drive didn't have power, that would exhibit
the same symptoms. The power cable might not be
plugged in.
Since those adapters sometimes fail (usually the wall
adapter), testing with an "expendable" Windows drive
to see if it still appears, would prove the hardware
works.
Wow, that almost look like Vantec's I am using.
Years ago, there was an "epidemic" of cheap USB
to three-drive-flavor adapters, where the power
adapter was just plain bad. The responsible companies
eventually figured out this was bad for business
(blowing up customer drives and such).

I've not seen a bad 12V adapter here (yet).

There was a time, probably close to 20 years ago,
when drive enclosures used a four pin power connector
(circular DIN). Somebody decided it was more fun to
do a 12V only adapter (barrel connector), then have
the controller board in the enclosure convert the
12V to 5V. I don't know which scheme is more dangerous.
Fortunately, in 2018, the controller board in the
enclosure uses a switcher rather than a linear regulator
(7805 etc) for the 5V output. It could be a "buck"
converter (as a buck doesn't do isolation, and
isolation isn't needed for DC to DC cases
like this one).

Paul
Ant
2018-06-30 00:50:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Years ago, there was an "epidemic" of cheap USB
to three-drive-flavor adapters, where the power
adapter was just plain bad. The responsible companies
eventually figured out this was bad for business
(blowing up customer drives and such).
I've not seen a bad 12V adapter here (yet).
There was a time, probably close to 20 years ago,
when drive enclosures used a four pin power connector
(circular DIN). Somebody decided it was more fun to
do a 12V only adapter (barrel connector), then have
the controller board in the enclosure convert the
12V to 5V. I don't know which scheme is more dangerous.
Fortunately, in 2018, the controller board in the
enclosure uses a switcher rather than a linear regulator
(7805 etc) for the 5V output. It could be a "buck"
converter (as a buck doesn't do isolation, and
isolation isn't needed for DC to DC cases
like this one).
How does one know which brands are good and bad? The reviews and ratings
like on Amazon?
--
Quote of the Week: "It's them!... Not THEM, the giant ants?!" --Girl and Crow
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
| |o o| | ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and URL/link.
\ _ /
( )
Paul
2018-06-30 01:18:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ant
Post by Paul
Years ago, there was an "epidemic" of cheap USB
to three-drive-flavor adapters, where the power
adapter was just plain bad. The responsible companies
eventually figured out this was bad for business
(blowing up customer drives and such).
I've not seen a bad 12V adapter here (yet).
There was a time, probably close to 20 years ago,
when drive enclosures used a four pin power connector
(circular DIN). Somebody decided it was more fun to
do a 12V only adapter (barrel connector), then have
the controller board in the enclosure convert the
12V to 5V. I don't know which scheme is more dangerous.
Fortunately, in 2018, the controller board in the
enclosure uses a switcher rather than a linear regulator
(7805 etc) for the 5V output. It could be a "buck"
converter (as a buck doesn't do isolation, and
isolation isn't needed for DC to DC cases
like this one).
How does one know which brands are good and bad? The reviews and ratings
like on Amazon?
The reviews on both Amazon and Newegg are degraded by
mixing up reviews from different things.

Some care is required, to collect review data
for a particular item.

I don't think there's a problem in 2018, but
there was wide-spread dissatisfaction years
ago, due to the wall adapters being poorly made.
It might have been the "bad cap" era, but I
think there was more to it than that. Too
many corners were being cut.

Nobody with the bad adapters was sawing them
open for a look. So we have no data.

Paul
VanguardLH
2018-06-29 02:47:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boris
My daughter called me about this yesterday.
She has a 2009-2010 iMac running Snow Leopard. Well, it was running, but
about five years ago, the thing would not fire up, nothing, no sound of a
spinning hard drive, no video on monitor, nothing. It was like it was
not plugged in. She took it to the Apple geniuses, who told her her the
motherboard must be dead, so she put it on the shelf circa 2013. It was
out of warranty.
She now wants to get some files, mostly pics/videos, from the hard drive.
With the help of google, she managed to remove the hard drive. It's a
2.5" 500GB Seagate SATA. She connected it to my adapter/converter cable,
similar to this one
https://www.amazon.com/Generic-Adapter-Converter-Optical-
External/dp/B002OV1VJW
and to her Win10 HP laptop. The drive spun up, but nothing popped up on
https://www.howtogeek.com/252111/how-to-read-a-mac-formatted-drive-on-a-
windows-pc/
she was expecting to get something like do you want to format this drive?
She also tried connecting to a Win7 machine, but no luck there, either.
She has not yet installed HFS+/HFSExplorer. She is going to wait until I
can help (tomorrow). But, if we are able to access the Apple hard drive,
can we move files to a Windows PC, and also open them?
Thanks.
Does her current computer have a spare SATA port on the mobo, or a
data-only drive attached that can be temporarily disconnected and used
with the Mac drive? Instead of using USB which requires Windows to be
loaded so afterward the USB devices can be detected and mounted, just
connect the SATA MAC drive to a SATA port on the Windows computer. Does
the current computer have an eSATA port?

When the computer boots, and BEFORE any operating system loads, the POST
screen should show what devices are detected, like the mass storage
devices (hard disks) on the SATA ports, optical drives, etc. At that
point in the POST, no OS is loaded yet so it doesn't matter how the
drive was partitioned or those partitions formatted. The idea is to see
if the bare drive regardless of what has been recorded on it can be
recognized by the computer. If detected, it should in the POST screen.
If not detected, the OS won't find it, either.

Check the computer can find the hardware interface to the migrated
drive. If the computer's BIOS/UEFI doesn't list the SATA hard disk in
its POST screen, the OS won't see it, too. The hardware has to be
working before the OS can find any logical structures recorded on the
drive.

Using USB means the drive cannot be found by the hardware until after
the OS loads and the USB driver(s) get loaded. That just compounds
determining if the migrated drive's basic hardware is even usable.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-06-29 06:10:37 UTC
Permalink
In message <***@v.nguard.lh>, VanguardLH <***@nguard.LH>
writes:
[]
Post by VanguardLH
When the computer boots, and BEFORE any operating system loads, the POST
screen should show what devices are detected, like the mass storage
devices (hard disks) on the SATA ports, optical drives, etc. At that
point in the POST, no OS is loaded yet so it doesn't matter how the
drive was partitioned or those partitions formatted. The idea is to see
if the bare drive regardless of what has been recorded on it can be
recognized by the computer. If detected, it should in the POST screen.
If not detected, the OS won't find it, either.
[]
Some mobos have a splash screen that obscures the POST
device-enumeration list. Often there's a message such as "Press ... to
bypass splash screen", and there's usually a BIOS setting to turn it off
altogether, but in my (limited) experience, mobos that can show such a
splash graphic screen usually have it _on_ by default.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Of course, this show - like every other cop show on earth - massively
overstates the prevalence of violent crime: last year, in the whole of the UK,
police fired their weapons just three times. And there were precisely zero
fatalities. - Vincent Graff in RT, 2014/11/8-14
VanguardLH
2018-06-29 06:38:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by VanguardLH
When the computer boots, and BEFORE any operating system loads, the
POST screen should show what devices are detected, like the mass
storage devices (hard disks) on the SATA ports, optical drives, etc.
At that point in the POST, no OS is loaded yet so it doesn't matter
how the drive was partitioned or those partitions formatted. The
idea is to see if the bare drive regardless of what has been
recorded on it can be recognized by the computer. If detected, it
should in the POST screen. If not detected, the OS won't find it,
either.
Some mobos have a splash screen that obscures the POST
device-enumeration list. Often there's a message such as "Press ... to
bypass splash screen", and there's usually a BIOS setting to turn it off
altogether, but in my (limited) experience, mobos that can show such a
splash graphic screen usually have it _on_ by default.
But, at least, even with the adware banner or screen, if you can read it
then the video card and monitor are working using their basic config.
If either the POST or adware screen is readable, I'd then boot into
Windows' safe mode and make sure the video card wasn't set to use some
resolution outside the ability of the monitor. Changing resolution is
something you do inside of Windows.

I'm assuming the OP has an LCD/LED monitor. If he has an old CRT
monitor, it is possible that using the resizing controls either on the
monitor or in Windows can push the frequency past what the monitor can
handle.
Yousuf Khan
2018-06-29 05:16:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boris
My daughter called me about this yesterday.
She has a 2009-2010 iMac running Snow Leopard. Well, it was running, but
about five years ago, the thing would not fire up, nothing, no sound of a
spinning hard drive, no video on monitor, nothing. It was like it was
not plugged in. She took it to the Apple geniuses, who told her her the
motherboard must be dead, so she put it on the shelf circa 2013. It was
out of warranty.
She now wants to get some files, mostly pics/videos, from the hard drive.
With the help of google, she managed to remove the hard drive. It's a
2.5" 500GB Seagate SATA. She connected it to my adapter/converter cable,
similar to this one
It's possible that it was the hard drive itself that died, rather than
the motherboard. You can't expect a "Genius" to know that, obviously. ;-)

Yousuf Khan
Paul
2018-06-29 06:45:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yousuf Khan
Post by Boris
My daughter called me about this yesterday.
She has a 2009-2010 iMac running Snow Leopard. Well, it was running, but
about five years ago, the thing would not fire up, nothing, no sound of a
spinning hard drive, no video on monitor, nothing. It was like it was
not plugged in. She took it to the Apple geniuses, who told her her the
motherboard must be dead, so she put it on the shelf circa 2013. It was
out of warranty.
She now wants to get some files, mostly pics/videos, from the hard drive.
With the help of google, she managed to remove the hard drive. It's a
2.5" 500GB Seagate SATA. She connected it to my adapter/converter cable,
similar to this one
It's possible that it was the hard drive itself that died, rather than
the motherboard. You can't expect a "Genius" to know that, obviously. ;-)
Yousuf Khan
OK, I just found a power converter in here.

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iMac+Intel+27-Inch+EMC+2309+and+2374+Teardown/1236

And this is it. One of the pictures to the right
in Step 12.

https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/5D5k5ao6NAdE2RVm.large

"The power supply puts out 25.8 amps at 12 volts, for a
total output of 310 watts. That's the biggest power supply
we've seen in an iMac."

There are actually two boards. One board looks like a primary
power device (AC to DC). The second board, the one with the
diagonally shaved corner, looks like some sort of DC to DC
converter. But it doesn't have enough I/O on it to be a power
solution. And there aren't enough standoffs, to cheat and use
the standoffs as conductors.

You could Google

<exact Model Number> power converter

and see if those power boards failing is a common thing.

If it doesn't make a sound, it might not have power.

*******

The disk file system could be HFS+ or it could be APFS.
Apparently even my machine, which is older than that
iMac, could format APFS (in theory). Not something
I'd be in a rush to do (I think I have a third party
tool for HFS+ only). Back in the day, it was
"Alsoft DiskWarrior" that was your "CHKDSK" and
could apparently do some things the OS could not.
(Around that time, Apple were still writing utilities.)

http://az4n6.blogspot.com/2018/01/how-to-mount-mac-apfs-images-in-windows.html

https://www.paragon-software.com/home/apfs-windows/#resources

http://dl.paragon-software.com/demo/apfswin_trial.msi

39,624,704 bytes

http://az4n6.blogspot.com/2018/01/mounting-apfs-image-in-linux.html

(FUSE filesystem?)

Paul
fnot
2018-06-30 06:05:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boris
My daughter called me about this yesterday.
She has a 2009-2010 iMac running Snow Leopard. Well, it was running, but
about five years ago, the thing would not fire up, nothing, no sound of a
spinning hard drive, no video on monitor, nothing. It was like it was
not plugged in. She took it to the Apple geniuses, who told her her the
motherboard must be dead, so she put it on the shelf circa 2013. It was
out of warranty.
She now wants to get some files, mostly pics/videos, from the hard drive.
With the help of google, she managed to remove the hard drive. It's a
2.5" 500GB Seagate SATA. She connected it to my adapter/converter cable,
similar to this one
https://www.amazon.com/Generic-Adapter-Converter-Optical-
External/dp/B002OV1VJW
and to her Win10 HP laptop. The drive spun up, but nothing popped up on
https://www.howtogeek.com/252111/how-to-read-a-mac-formatted-drive-on-a-
windows-pc/
she was expecting to get something like do you want to format this drive?
She also tried connecting to a Win7 machine, but no luck there, either.
She has not yet installed HFS+/HFSExplorer. She is going to wait until I
can help (tomorrow). But, if we are able to access the Apple hard drive,
can we move files to a Windows PC, and also open them?
Thanks.
It's been ages since I did this. Live Linux boot with HD attached.
Copy files.
I remember it only grabbed common types of files ie. doc, jpg, pdf, etc.
I'll look into my archived notes...
Mike S
2018-06-30 06:07:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by fnot
Post by Boris
My daughter called me about this yesterday.
She has a 2009-2010 iMac running Snow Leopard.  Well, it was running, but
about five years ago, the thing would not fire up, nothing, no sound of a
spinning hard drive, no video on monitor, nothing.  It was like it was
not plugged in.  She took it to the Apple geniuses, who told her her the
motherboard must be dead, so she put it on the shelf circa 2013.  It was
out of warranty.
She now wants to get some files, mostly pics/videos, from the hard drive.
With the help of google, she managed to remove the hard drive.  It's a
2.5" 500GB Seagate SATA.  She connected it to my adapter/converter cable,
similar to this one
https://www.amazon.com/Generic-Adapter-Converter-Optical-
External/dp/B002OV1VJW
and to her Win10 HP laptop.  The drive spun up, but nothing popped up on
https://www.howtogeek.com/252111/how-to-read-a-mac-formatted-drive-on-a-
windows-pc/
she was expecting to get something like do you want to format this drive?
She also tried connecting to a Win7 machine, but no luck there, either.
She has not yet installed HFS+/HFSExplorer.  She is going to wait until I
can help (tomorrow).  But, if we are able to access the Apple hard drive,
can we move files to a Windows PC, and also open them?
Thanks.
It's been ages since I did this. Live Linux boot with HD attached.
Copy files.
I remember it only grabbed common types of files ie. doc, jpg, pdf, etc.
I'll look into my archived notes...
Looks like you're on the right track.
https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/4-ways-read-mac-formatted-drive-windows/
Paul
2018-06-30 06:40:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike S
Post by fnot
Post by Boris
My daughter called me about this yesterday.
She has a 2009-2010 iMac running Snow Leopard. Well, it was running, but
about five years ago, the thing would not fire up, nothing, no sound of a
spinning hard drive, no video on monitor, nothing. It was like it was
not plugged in. She took it to the Apple geniuses, who told her her the
motherboard must be dead, so she put it on the shelf circa 2013. It was
out of warranty.
She now wants to get some files, mostly pics/videos, from the hard drive.
With the help of google, she managed to remove the hard drive. It's a
2.5" 500GB Seagate SATA. She connected it to my adapter/converter cable,
similar to this one
https://www.amazon.com/Generic-Adapter-Converter-Optical-
External/dp/B002OV1VJW
and to her Win10 HP laptop. The drive spun up, but nothing popped up on
https://www.howtogeek.com/252111/how-to-read-a-mac-formatted-drive-on-a-
windows-pc/
she was expecting to get something like do you want to format this drive?
She also tried connecting to a Win7 machine, but no luck there, either.
She has not yet installed HFS+/HFSExplorer. She is going to wait until I
can help (tomorrow). But, if we are able to access the Apple hard drive,
can we move files to a Windows PC, and also open them?
Thanks.
It's been ages since I did this. Live Linux boot with HD attached.
Copy files.
I remember it only grabbed common types of files ie. doc, jpg, pdf, etc.
I'll look into my archived notes...
Looks like you're on the right track.
https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/4-ways-read-mac-formatted-drive-windows/
The first step, is deciding whether it's HFS+ or APFS.

The file system layout of APFS has a couple text strings.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Kurt_Hansen9/publication/319573636_Decoding_the_APFS_file_system/links/59c3dba90f7e9b07cbb9cb34/Decoding-the-APFS-file-system.pdf?origin=publication_detail

NXSB

APSB

I'd start with a hex editor such as HxD and
check it out. HxD has a "raw disk" menu item
for jobs like this (when it is run as Administrator).
HxD can search for text strings at 600MB/sec
(if the disk can keep up).

https://mh-nexus.de/en/hxd/

Or "disktype" is a good utility, but a nuisance
to get ahold of. (The one I use is a Cygwin version,
an EXE and two DLLs.)

On the older disks, the nineth partition is
typically "Macintosh HD". And "disktype" can tell
you that. Before "disktype" came along, I had
to try them one at a time until I found it.

Paul
Frank Slootweg
2018-07-01 19:39:08 UTC
Permalink
Boris <***@invalid.invalid> wrote:
[...]

[N.B. Others have already commented on the need for the Windows system
to 'see' the disk at all, i.e. as a disk, not (yet) the filesystem(s) on
the disk, so I'll skip that.]
Post by Boris
She has not yet installed HFS+/HFSExplorer.
In a similar situation - also a daughter :-) - I (successfully) used
'Paragon HFS+ for Windows':

<https://www.paragon-software.com/home/hfs-windows/#>

'Paragon HFS+ for Windows' is payware, but has a free 10-day trial,
which should be enough.

Paragon has also a product for APFS filesystems (see Paul's responses).

According to my notes, I had more luck with 'Paragon HFS+ for Windows'
than with 'HFSExplorer' (<http://www.catacombae.org/hfsexplorer>).

'HFSExplorer' is more limited/basic than 'Paragon HFS+ for Windows',
but it might be enough for your situation.

Good luck with your recovery efforts.
Boris
2018-07-05 04:03:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Slootweg
[...]
[N.B. Others have already commented on the need for the Windows system
to 'see' the disk at all, i.e. as a disk, not (yet) the filesystem(s) on
the disk, so I'll skip that.]
Post by Boris
She has not yet installed HFS+/HFSExplorer.
In a similar situation - also a daughter :-) - I (successfully) used
<https://www.paragon-software.com/home/hfs-windows/#>
'Paragon HFS+ for Windows' is payware, but has a free 10-day trial,
which should be enough.
Paragon has also a product for APFS filesystems (see Paul's responses).
According to my notes, I had more luck with 'Paragon HFS+ for Windows'
than with 'HFSExplorer' (<http://www.catacombae.org/hfsexplorer>).
'HFSExplorer' is more limited/basic than 'Paragon HFS+ for Windows',
but it might be enough for your situation.
Good luck with your recovery efforts.
Hi,

Thanks to all that replied.

Frank, glad you were able to do what we have not been able to do, yet.

My daughter and I were finally able to get together, and I got more
information from her. First, I don't know why the motherboard was deemed
dead by the Apple geniuses, even though they said they did 'tests' on it,
because it is not. And I don't know why my daughter was not able to get the
iMac to even sound like it was on, let alone show anyting, even POST, on the
screen. I suspect that the iMac may have been plugged into a wall outlet
that was not hot unless the wall switch was on.

The iMac did turn on, but had the spinning circle of death. Some readings
say that this could be due to an upgrade in progress that was aborted. My
daughter doesn't remember. That was five years ago.

There are two parts to the story of what we accomplished/didn't accomplish.

1) Now that the iMac is not completely dead, let's see what we can find on
the hard drive.

With the original hard drive put back in the machine, the iMac did turn on,
with the spinning circle of death. Well, at leasat there's something going
on. We found the iOS disc, and printed on the disc itself it said to insert
disc, power down, power up, 'press C' after turning on power. This should
bring up the disc utilities allowing you to recover/install anew. Ok, let's
try that.

This was a little more difficult than expected, because we found a music cd
was in the Super Drive. Of course we couldn't eject it, because the iOS
woundn't load. We had to remove the Super Drive, and then use a putty knife
to remove the music cd. Once out, we put the Super Drive back in the machine,
and inserted the iOS disc, and pressed C on the Apple keyboard.

Oops, the original Apple keyboard (bluetooth) was unusable because after five
years of non-use, with the battery still in it, leaky alkaline build up had
cemented the battery compartment shut to the point where heavy duty twisting
with a large blade flat tip screwdriver wouln't budget the battery
compartment door one mm. I had plenty of extra USB keyboards, which we
tried, but none worked. Down to BestBuy to get a cheap USB keyboard that was
Apple compatible. BestBuy's in-house brand, Insigna for $20, worked.

Pressing the C key while the machine was booting did bring up the disk
utilities most of the time. When it did, we went as far into it as we could
to explore the menus without going the the point of no return. But, the
menus that appeared were not what the instructions said would appear. We
backed out because we wanted to try to move/copy the pictures/videos from the
drive more that recover/reinstall, which could wipe out the files we wanted
to move/copy.

2) So much for trying to read the hard drive while installed in the machine.
Let's see about moving/copying files from the original hard drive to my
daughter's HP laptop.

We removed the Apple hard drive and installed HFS+ along with Java, on my
daughgter's HP Win10 laptop, and connected it to the laptop, and we could
intermittently access the hard drive. The hard drive did show up in disk
manager, but not in Windows Explorer. We did not expect it to show up in any
Windows window. It did show up in HFS Explorer, but when we tried to extract
a file, we'd get a few files extracted to the HP, but then a Java error would
appear, and the process halted. We were never able to move/copy more than a
few files. Here's the error message:

https://postimg.cc/image/l2d72vcnf/

Next, I loaded Paragon's HFS+ for Windows on to my Win7 desktop, and
connected the Apple hard drive. This time, the Apple hard drive would not
show up anywhere, and Paragon gave me this message:

https://postimg.cc/image/l3n4w946j/

But see where it says 'restart the service'? If I pressed that link, I'd get
connected to the iMac hard drive:

https://postimg.cc/gallery/g75huiu4/

(Ignore file names, for some reason file names didn't carry over to postimg
correctly)

If I pressed the Close button on the Macintosh HD screen, I was sent back to
'restart service'.

I will try some more later this week.

Thanks for reading this far.
Paul
2018-07-05 05:09:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boris
Post by Frank Slootweg
[...]
[N.B. Others have already commented on the need for the Windows system
to 'see' the disk at all, i.e. as a disk, not (yet) the filesystem(s) on
the disk, so I'll skip that.]
Post by Boris
She has not yet installed HFS+/HFSExplorer.
In a similar situation - also a daughter :-) - I (successfully) used
<https://www.paragon-software.com/home/hfs-windows/#>
'Paragon HFS+ for Windows' is payware, but has a free 10-day trial,
which should be enough.
Paragon has also a product for APFS filesystems (see Paul's responses).
According to my notes, I had more luck with 'Paragon HFS+ for Windows'
than with 'HFSExplorer' (<http://www.catacombae.org/hfsexplorer>).
'HFSExplorer' is more limited/basic than 'Paragon HFS+ for Windows',
but it might be enough for your situation.
Good luck with your recovery efforts.
Hi,
Thanks to all that replied.
Frank, glad you were able to do what we have not been able to do, yet.
My daughter and I were finally able to get together, and I got more
information from her. First, I don't know why the motherboard was deemed
dead by the Apple geniuses, even though they said they did 'tests' on it,
because it is not. And I don't know why my daughter was not able to get the
iMac to even sound like it was on, let alone show anyting, even POST, on the
screen. I suspect that the iMac may have been plugged into a wall outlet
that was not hot unless the wall switch was on.
The iMac did turn on, but had the spinning circle of death. Some readings
say that this could be due to an upgrade in progress that was aborted. My
daughter doesn't remember. That was five years ago.
There are two parts to the story of what we accomplished/didn't accomplish.
1) Now that the iMac is not completely dead, let's see what we can find on
the hard drive.
With the original hard drive put back in the machine, the iMac did turn on,
with the spinning circle of death. Well, at leasat there's something going
on. We found the iOS disc, and printed on the disc itself it said to insert
disc, power down, power up, 'press C' after turning on power. This should
bring up the disc utilities allowing you to recover/install anew. Ok, let's
try that.
This was a little more difficult than expected, because we found a music cd
was in the Super Drive. Of course we couldn't eject it, because the iOS
woundn't load. We had to remove the Super Drive, and then use a putty knife
to remove the music cd. Once out, we put the Super Drive back in the machine,
and inserted the iOS disc, and pressed C on the Apple keyboard.
Oops, the original Apple keyboard (bluetooth) was unusable because after five
years of non-use, with the battery still in it, leaky alkaline build up had
cemented the battery compartment shut to the point where heavy duty twisting
with a large blade flat tip screwdriver wouln't budget the battery
compartment door one mm. I had plenty of extra USB keyboards, which we
tried, but none worked. Down to BestBuy to get a cheap USB keyboard that was
Apple compatible. BestBuy's in-house brand, Insigna for $20, worked.
Pressing the C key while the machine was booting did bring up the disk
utilities most of the time. When it did, we went as far into it as we could
to explore the menus without going the the point of no return. But, the
menus that appeared were not what the instructions said would appear. We
backed out because we wanted to try to move/copy the pictures/videos from the
drive more that recover/reinstall, which could wipe out the files we wanted
to move/copy.
2) So much for trying to read the hard drive while installed in the machine.
Let's see about moving/copying files from the original hard drive to my
daughter's HP laptop.
We removed the Apple hard drive and installed HFS+ along with Java, on my
daughgter's HP Win10 laptop, and connected it to the laptop, and we could
intermittently access the hard drive. The hard drive did show up in disk
manager, but not in Windows Explorer. We did not expect it to show up in any
Windows window. It did show up in HFS Explorer, but when we tried to extract
a file, we'd get a few files extracted to the HP, but then a Java error would
appear, and the process halted. We were never able to move/copy more than a
https://postimg.cc/image/l2d72vcnf/
Next, I loaded Paragon's HFS+ for Windows on to my Win7 desktop, and
connected the Apple hard drive. This time, the Apple hard drive would not
https://postimg.cc/image/l3n4w946j/
But see where it says 'restart the service'? If I pressed that link, I'd get
https://postimg.cc/gallery/g75huiu4/
(Ignore file names, for some reason file names didn't carry over to postimg
correctly)
If I pressed the Close button on the Macintosh HD screen, I was sent back to
'restart service'.
I will try some more later this week.
Thanks for reading this far.
To get past the I/O error, you could try gddrescue from a
Linux LiveCD.

What that does, is a sector-by-sector copy of the data from
a bad drive, to a new 500GB drive.

The gddrescue program also supports multiple runs. If it
misses sectors on a first pass, it can pick them up on a
second or third pass.

sudo gddrescue if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb

Once the majority of the disk is captured, now you have a
platform for running your recovery procedures on.

Using gddrescue, you can now copy the 500GB disk drive,
into a 500GB image file. As the sector transfers are guaranteed
to succeed (from known-good /dev/sdb hard drive). You can also
"pipe" the standard output into a compressor like gzip. This
is your "backup image", in case /dev/sdb is ruined by a subsequent
Disk First Aid operation or similar.

sudo gddrescue if=/dev/sdb of=- | gzip ....

This is the two disk data recovery procedure I try
to sell here. One disk is mechanically sound, and
is then used to avoid any "I/O errors" like the ones
you've been getting. The second disk has to be
big enough to hold a copy of the working disk,
plus any files from Photorec, Recuva, or other
scavenger procedures.

The second disk is just in case you ruin the working disk
(/dev/sdb) with a recovery procedure.

The purpose of using multiple software platforms, is
to avoid paying a dime for software. Until
the writing is on the wall.

Other than that, there was Alsoft DiskWarrior.
I bought a copy when I got my last Mac, as
"just in case" software. As that's what you were
supposed to do. Disk First Aid wasn't always
the tool of choice. You would only attempt to use
a thing like that, using the "healthy" disk drive (sdb)
as a substitute for the one with the I/O error
problem.

Loading Image...

gddrescue uses a text file to keep track of what sectors
got successfully copied. That's the file it uses from
one run to the next, to only work on the bits
remaining to do. gddrescue should be available from the
Ubuntu package repository, as an example.

If you do boot a MacOSX installer disc and run
Disk First Aid from there (from the menu), there's
no telling what will happen when the program hits
the "I/O error" area of the disk. I would no more
run Disk First Aid on a sick disk drive, than I'd
run CHKDSK on a sick disk drive.

Paul
Boris
2018-07-06 00:41:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Frank Slootweg
[...]
[N.B. Others have already commented on the need for the Windows system
to 'see' the disk at all, i.e. as a disk, not (yet) the filesystem(s)
on the disk, so I'll skip that.]
Post by Boris
She has not yet installed HFS+/HFSExplorer.
In a similar situation - also a daughter :-) - I (successfully) used
<https://www.paragon-software.com/home/hfs-windows/#>
'Paragon HFS+ for Windows' is payware, but has a free 10-day trial,
which should be enough.
Paragon has also a product for APFS filesystems (see Paul's responses).
According to my notes, I had more luck with 'Paragon HFS+ for Windows'
than with 'HFSExplorer' (<http://www.catacombae.org/hfsexplorer>).
'HFSExplorer' is more limited/basic than 'Paragon HFS+ for Windows',
but it might be enough for your situation.
Good luck with your recovery efforts.
Hi,
Thanks to all that replied.
Frank, glad you were able to do what we have not been able to do, yet.
My daughter and I were finally able to get together, and I got more
information from her. First, I don't know why the motherboard was
deemed dead by the Apple geniuses, even though they said they did
'tests' on it, because it is not. And I don't know why my daughter was
not able to get the iMac to even sound like it was on, let alone show
anyting, even POST, on the screen. I suspect that the iMac may have
been plugged into a wall outlet that was not hot unless the wall switch
was on.
The iMac did turn on, but had the spinning circle of death. Some
readings say that this could be due to an upgrade in progress that was
aborted. My daughter doesn't remember. That was five years ago.
There are two parts to the story of what we accomplished/didn't accomplish.
1) Now that the iMac is not completely dead, let's see what we can find
on the hard drive.
With the original hard drive put back in the machine, the iMac did turn
on, with the spinning circle of death. Well, at leasat there's
something going on. We found the iOS disc, and printed on the disc
itself it said to insert disc, power down, power up, 'press C' after
turning on power. This should bring up the disc utilities allowing you
to recover/install anew. Ok, let's try that.
This was a little more difficult than expected, because we found a
music cd was in the Super Drive. Of course we couldn't eject it,
because the iOS woundn't load. We had to remove the Super Drive, and
then use a putty knife to remove the music cd. Once out, we put the
Super Drive back in the machine, and inserted the iOS disc, and pressed
C on the Apple keyboard.
Oops, the original Apple keyboard (bluetooth) was unusable because
after five years of non-use, with the battery still in it, leaky
alkaline build up had cemented the battery compartment shut to the
point where heavy duty twisting with a large blade flat tip screwdriver
wouln't budget the battery compartment door one mm. I had plenty of
extra USB keyboards, which we tried, but none worked. Down to BestBuy
to get a cheap USB keyboard that was Apple compatible. BestBuy's
in-house brand, Insigna for $20, worked.
Pressing the C key while the machine was booting did bring up the disk
utilities most of the time. When it did, we went as far into it as we
could to explore the menus without going the the point of no return.
But, the menus that appeared were not what the instructions said would
appear. We backed out because we wanted to try to move/copy the
pictures/videos from the drive more that recover/reinstall, which could
wipe out the files we wanted to move/copy.
2) So much for trying to read the hard drive while installed in the
machine. Let's see about moving/copying files from the original hard
drive to my daughter's HP laptop.
We removed the Apple hard drive and installed HFS+ along with Java, on
my daughgter's HP Win10 laptop, and connected it to the laptop, and we
could intermittently access the hard drive. The hard drive did show up
in disk manager, but not in Windows Explorer. We did not expect it to
show up in any Windows window. It did show up in HFS Explorer, but
when we tried to extract a file, we'd get a few files extracted to the
HP, but then a Java error would appear, and the process halted. We
were never able to move/copy more than a few files. Here's the error
https://postimg.cc/image/l2d72vcnf/
Next, I loaded Paragon's HFS+ for Windows on to my Win7 desktop, and
connected the Apple hard drive. This time, the Apple hard drive would
https://postimg.cc/image/l3n4w946j/
But see where it says 'restart the service'? If I pressed that link,
https://postimg.cc/gallery/g75huiu4/
(Ignore file names, for some reason file names didn't carry over to
postimg correctly)
If I pressed the Close button on the Macintosh HD screen, I was sent
back to 'restart service'.
I will try some more later this week.
Thanks for reading this far.
To get past the I/O error, you could try gddrescue from a
Linux LiveCD.
OK. So I went off and did some reading, since I've never done anything
with Linux, but have always been curious. I'd like to try and see how far
I can get. If I don't get far, because this is beyond my skills, or if I
am able to complete this process but the Apple drive is too far corrupted,
I will have at least learned a little about Linux, and may experiment with
a LinuxLive distribution on a spare pc.

Let me see if I understand the first few steps of the mechanics of the
process.

Download (obviously from a working pc) a LinuxLiveCD iso, and create a
bootable set of LinuxLive cds. Possibly from here:
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/

Connect both the error ridden Apple 500GB hard drive, and another hard
drive with at least 500GB of free space to a working pc (this Win7x64
machine)

Boot the Win7 using the LinuxLiveCD
Once in Linux, run the command:
sudo gddrescue if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb

If the above is correct so far, will there be on-screen directions as to
where to direct the retrieved sectors?
Post by Paul
What that does, is a sector-by-sector copy of the data from
a bad drive, to a new 500GB drive.
The gddrescue program also supports multiple runs. If it
misses sectors on a first pass, it can pick them up on a
second or third pass.
sudo gddrescue if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb
Once the majority of the disk is captured, now you have a
platform for running your recovery procedures on.
Using gddrescue, you can now copy the 500GB disk drive,
into a 500GB image file. As the sector transfers are guaranteed
to succeed (from known-good /dev/sdb hard drive). You can also
"pipe" the standard output into a compressor like gzip. This
is your "backup image", in case /dev/sdb is ruined by a subsequent
Disk First Aid operation or similar.
sudo gddrescue if=/dev/sdb of=- | gzip ....
This is the two disk data recovery procedure I try
to sell here. One disk is mechanically sound, and
is then used to avoid any "I/O errors" like the ones
you've been getting. The second disk has to be
big enough to hold a copy of the working disk,
plus any files from Photorec, Recuva, or other
scavenger procedures.
The second disk is just in case you ruin the working disk
(/dev/sdb) with a recovery procedure.
The purpose of using multiple software platforms, is
to avoid paying a dime for software. Until
the writing is on the wall.
Other than that, there was Alsoft DiskWarrior.
I bought a copy when I got my last Mac, as
"just in case" software. As that's what you were
supposed to do. Disk First Aid wasn't always
the tool of choice. You would only attempt to use
a thing like that, using the "healthy" disk drive (sdb)
as a substitute for the one with the I/O error
problem.
https://s22.postimg.cc/cvvyyz14x/disk_first_aid_from_macosx_installer_cd
.
Post by Paul
gif
gddrescue uses a text file to keep track of what sectors
got successfully copied. That's the file it uses from
one run to the next, to only work on the bits
remaining to do. gddrescue should be available from the
Ubuntu package repository, as an example.
If you do boot a MacOSX installer disc and run
Disk First Aid from there (from the menu), there's
no telling what will happen when the program hits
the "I/O error" area of the disk. I would no more
run Disk First Aid on a sick disk drive, than I'd
run CHKDSK on a sick disk drive.
Paul
Paul
2018-07-06 01:20:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Frank Slootweg
[...]
[N.B. Others have already commented on the need for the Windows system
to 'see' the disk at all, i.e. as a disk, not (yet) the filesystem(s)
on the disk, so I'll skip that.]
Post by Boris
She has not yet installed HFS+/HFSExplorer.
In a similar situation - also a daughter :-) - I (successfully) used
<https://www.paragon-software.com/home/hfs-windows/#>
'Paragon HFS+ for Windows' is payware, but has a free 10-day trial,
which should be enough.
Paragon has also a product for APFS filesystems (see Paul's responses).
According to my notes, I had more luck with 'Paragon HFS+ for Windows'
than with 'HFSExplorer' (<http://www.catacombae.org/hfsexplorer>).
'HFSExplorer' is more limited/basic than 'Paragon HFS+ for Windows',
but it might be enough for your situation.
Good luck with your recovery efforts.
Hi,
Thanks to all that replied.
Frank, glad you were able to do what we have not been able to do, yet.
My daughter and I were finally able to get together, and I got more
information from her. First, I don't know why the motherboard was
deemed dead by the Apple geniuses, even though they said they did
'tests' on it, because it is not. And I don't know why my daughter was
not able to get the iMac to even sound like it was on, let alone show
anyting, even POST, on the screen. I suspect that the iMac may have
been plugged into a wall outlet that was not hot unless the wall switch
was on.
The iMac did turn on, but had the spinning circle of death. Some
readings say that this could be due to an upgrade in progress that was
aborted. My daughter doesn't remember. That was five years ago.
There are two parts to the story of what we accomplished/didn't accomplish.
1) Now that the iMac is not completely dead, let's see what we can find
on the hard drive.
With the original hard drive put back in the machine, the iMac did turn
on, with the spinning circle of death. Well, at leasat there's
something going on. We found the iOS disc, and printed on the disc
itself it said to insert disc, power down, power up, 'press C' after
turning on power. This should bring up the disc utilities allowing you
to recover/install anew. Ok, let's try that.
This was a little more difficult than expected, because we found a
music cd was in the Super Drive. Of course we couldn't eject it,
because the iOS woundn't load. We had to remove the Super Drive, and
then use a putty knife to remove the music cd. Once out, we put the
Super Drive back in the machine, and inserted the iOS disc, and pressed
C on the Apple keyboard.
Oops, the original Apple keyboard (bluetooth) was unusable because
after five years of non-use, with the battery still in it, leaky
alkaline build up had cemented the battery compartment shut to the
point where heavy duty twisting with a large blade flat tip screwdriver
wouln't budget the battery compartment door one mm. I had plenty of
extra USB keyboards, which we tried, but none worked. Down to BestBuy
to get a cheap USB keyboard that was Apple compatible. BestBuy's
in-house brand, Insigna for $20, worked.
Pressing the C key while the machine was booting did bring up the disk
utilities most of the time. When it did, we went as far into it as we
could to explore the menus without going the the point of no return.
But, the menus that appeared were not what the instructions said would
appear. We backed out because we wanted to try to move/copy the
pictures/videos from the drive more that recover/reinstall, which could
wipe out the files we wanted to move/copy.
2) So much for trying to read the hard drive while installed in the
machine. Let's see about moving/copying files from the original hard
drive to my daughter's HP laptop.
We removed the Apple hard drive and installed HFS+ along with Java, on
my daughgter's HP Win10 laptop, and connected it to the laptop, and we
could intermittently access the hard drive. The hard drive did show up
in disk manager, but not in Windows Explorer. We did not expect it to
show up in any Windows window. It did show up in HFS Explorer, but
when we tried to extract a file, we'd get a few files extracted to the
HP, but then a Java error would appear, and the process halted. We
were never able to move/copy more than a few files. Here's the error
https://postimg.cc/image/l2d72vcnf/
Next, I loaded Paragon's HFS+ for Windows on to my Win7 desktop, and
connected the Apple hard drive. This time, the Apple hard drive would
https://postimg.cc/image/l3n4w946j/
But see where it says 'restart the service'? If I pressed that link,
https://postimg.cc/gallery/g75huiu4/
(Ignore file names, for some reason file names didn't carry over to
postimg correctly)
If I pressed the Close button on the Macintosh HD screen, I was sent
back to 'restart service'.
I will try some more later this week.
Thanks for reading this far.
To get past the I/O error, you could try gddrescue from a
Linux LiveCD.
OK. So I went off and did some reading, since I've never done anything
with Linux, but have always been curious. I'd like to try and see how far
I can get. If I don't get far, because this is beyond my skills, or if I
am able to complete this process but the Apple drive is too far corrupted,
I will have at least learned a little about Linux, and may experiment with
a LinuxLive distribution on a spare pc.
Let me see if I understand the first few steps of the mechanics of the
process.
Download (obviously from a working pc) a LinuxLiveCD iso, and create a
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/
Connect both the error ridden Apple 500GB hard drive, and another hard
drive with at least 500GB of free space to a working pc (this Win7x64
machine)
Boot the Win7 using the LinuxLiveCD
sudo gddrescue if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb
If the above is correct so far, will there be on-screen directions as to
where to direct the retrieved sectors?
The Linuz LiveDVD is about 1.5GB in size and a single-layer
DVD should be sufficient to hold it. You can also use a
USB stick if the disc is known to be a hybrid equipped
with USB boot. It takes a sector-by-sector dd (disk dump)
copy to make a USB stick.

Making the DVD is a bit easier, if you're more familiar with
converting ISO9660 to bootable media.

When the LiveDVD is booted, you need to find a Terminal
to issue the command. In Ubuntu, you use the dash icon,
which is top or bottom left, and type the name of the
command you want ("Terminal").

*******

This is the first example I found. gddrescue is the package
name of ddrescue on some platforms (like maybe Ubuntu or Mint).

http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/Damaged_Hard_Disk

man ddrescue

# first, grab most of the error-free areas in a hurry:
sudo ddrescue -n /dev/old_disk /dev/new_disk rescued.log
# then try to recover as much of the dicey areas as possible:
sudo ddrescue -r 1 /dev/old_disk /dev/new_disk rescued.log

In this example, a disk is being transferred to an image file,
rather than to another disk.

-b8M max block size 8MB per transfer, auto-adjusts itself
/dev/sdb source disk
sdb.raw destination image file
sdb.log text file keeps track of progress
-S sparse (only helps if disk was whitened with zeros first, optional)

sudo ddrescue -S -b8M /dev/sdb /mount/external/backup/sdb.raw /mount/external/backup/sdb.log

I've checked my records and I don't seem to have a worked example.
I think the problem was, the example with the -S in it,
all the sectors were collected on the first pass, so there
was no need to do a second pass. If a second pass was
attempted, it would have exited in a microsecond, because
there was no work to do.

You can use

ddrescue

to get the OS to tell you how to install it. Perhaps

sudo apt install gddrescue

is what it answers, as the command to use.

Then

man ddrescue

for the options.

The first major argument is the source (/dev/sdX)

The second argument can be a disk when cloning (/dev/sdY)
or if you have a formatted partition just sitting
there which is 500GB in size, you can dump to
sdb.raw on that partition. That's how you'd make
a backup image.

The disk dump command (dd), which is available on
more platforms, is less polished. It uses if=
for the source disk. It uses of= for the destination disk.

My problem here, is I don't have any disks throwing an
I/O error, to use for making sample runs. I have good
disks or dead disks, and nothing useful for this sort
of work.

Using the manual page, you should be able to figure it out.

The important thing is, the package name is gddrescue,
while the executable is ddrescue, and the "sudo" thing
means to elevate to root user so that physical address
to the disk is possible.

There are backup softwares which promise to do this
sort of thing, but... I don't trust them. One test
showed the maker lied about their capabilities. At
least with gddrescue, I know it does what it says
on the tin. The format they use for the .log file,
shows they thought about how to do this a bit.
This wasn't a ten minute software development effort.

Paul
Boris
2018-07-07 01:08:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Frank Slootweg
[...]
[N.B. Others have already commented on the need for the Windows
system to 'see' the disk at all, i.e. as a disk, not (yet) the
filesystem(s) on the disk, so I'll skip that.]
Post by Boris
She has not yet installed HFS+/HFSExplorer.
In a similar situation - also a daughter :-) - I (successfully) used
<https://www.paragon-software.com/home/hfs-windows/#>
'Paragon HFS+ for Windows' is payware, but has a free 10-day trial,
which should be enough.
Paragon has also a product for APFS filesystems (see Paul's responses).
According to my notes, I had more luck with 'Paragon HFS+ for Windows'
than with 'HFSExplorer' (<http://www.catacombae.org/hfsexplorer>).
'HFSExplorer' is more limited/basic than 'Paragon HFS+ for Windows',
but it might be enough for your situation.
Good luck with your recovery efforts.
Hi,
Thanks to all that replied.
Frank, glad you were able to do what we have not been able to do, yet.
My daughter and I were finally able to get together, and I got more
information from her. First, I don't know why the motherboard was
deemed dead by the Apple geniuses, even though they said they did
'tests' on it, because it is not. And I don't know why my daughter
was not able to get the iMac to even sound like it was on, let alone
show anyting, even POST, on the screen. I suspect that the iMac may
have been plugged into a wall outlet that was not hot unless the wall
switch was on.
The iMac did turn on, but had the spinning circle of death. Some
readings say that this could be due to an upgrade in progress that
was aborted. My daughter doesn't remember. That was five years ago.
There are two parts to the story of what we accomplished/didn't accomplish.
1) Now that the iMac is not completely dead, let's see what we can
find on the hard drive.
With the original hard drive put back in the machine, the iMac did
turn on, with the spinning circle of death. Well, at leasat there's
something going on. We found the iOS disc, and printed on the disc
itself it said to insert disc, power down, power up, 'press C' after
turning on power. This should bring up the disc utilities allowing
you to recover/install anew. Ok, let's try that.
This was a little more difficult than expected, because we found a
music cd was in the Super Drive. Of course we couldn't eject it,
because the iOS woundn't load. We had to remove the Super Drive, and
then use a putty knife to remove the music cd. Once out, we put the
Super Drive back in the machine, and inserted the iOS disc, and
pressed C on the Apple keyboard.
Oops, the original Apple keyboard (bluetooth) was unusable because
after five years of non-use, with the battery still in it, leaky
alkaline build up had cemented the battery compartment shut to the
point where heavy duty twisting with a large blade flat tip
screwdriver wouln't budget the battery compartment door one mm. I
had plenty of extra USB keyboards, which we tried, but none worked.
Down to BestBuy to get a cheap USB keyboard that was Apple
compatible. BestBuy's in-house brand, Insigna for $20, worked.
Pressing the C key while the machine was booting did bring up the
disk utilities most of the time. When it did, we went as far into it
as we could to explore the menus without going the the point of no
return. But, the menus that appeared were not what the instructions
said would appear. We backed out because we wanted to try to
move/copy the pictures/videos from the drive more that
recover/reinstall, which could wipe out the files we wanted to
move/copy.
2) So much for trying to read the hard drive while installed in the
machine. Let's see about moving/copying files from the original hard
drive to my daughter's HP laptop.
We removed the Apple hard drive and installed HFS+ along with Java,
on my daughgter's HP Win10 laptop, and connected it to the laptop,
and we could intermittently access the hard drive. The hard drive
did show up in disk manager, but not in Windows Explorer. We did not
expect it to show up in any Windows window. It did show up in HFS
Explorer, but when we tried to extract a file, we'd get a few files
extracted to the HP, but then a Java error would appear, and the
process halted. We were never able to move/copy more than a few
https://postimg.cc/image/l2d72vcnf/
Next, I loaded Paragon's HFS+ for Windows on to my Win7 desktop, and
connected the Apple hard drive. This time, the Apple hard drive
https://postimg.cc/image/l3n4w946j/
But see where it says 'restart the service'? If I pressed that link,
https://postimg.cc/gallery/g75huiu4/
(Ignore file names, for some reason file names didn't carry over to
postimg correctly)
If I pressed the Close button on the Macintosh HD screen, I was sent
back to 'restart service'.
I will try some more later this week.
Thanks for reading this far.
To get past the I/O error, you could try gddrescue from a
Linux LiveCD.
OK. So I went off and did some reading, since I've never done anything
with Linux, but have always been curious. I'd like to try and see how
far I can get. If I don't get far, because this is beyond my skills,
or if I am able to complete this process but the Apple drive is too far
corrupted, I will have at least learned a little about Linux, and may
experiment with a LinuxLive distribution on a spare pc.
Let me see if I understand the first few steps of the mechanics of the
process.
Download (obviously from a working pc) a LinuxLiveCD iso, and create a
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/
Connect both the error ridden Apple 500GB hard drive, and another hard
drive with at least 500GB of free space to a working pc (this Win7x64
machine)
Boot the Win7 using the LinuxLiveCD
sudo gddrescue if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb
If the above is correct so far, will there be on-screen directions as
to where to direct the retrieved sectors?
The Linuz LiveDVD is about 1.5GB in size and a single-layer
DVD should be sufficient to hold it. You can also use a
USB stick if the disc is known to be a hybrid equipped
with USB boot. It takes a sector-by-sector dd (disk dump)
copy to make a USB stick.
Making the DVD is a bit easier, if you're more familiar with
converting ISO9660 to bootable media.
When the LiveDVD is booted, you need to find a Terminal
to issue the command. In Ubuntu, you use the dash icon,
which is top or bottom left, and type the name of the
command you want ("Terminal").
*******
This is the first example I found. gddrescue is the package
name of ddrescue on some platforms (like maybe Ubuntu or Mint).
http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/Damaged_Hard_Disk
man ddrescue
sudo ddrescue -n /dev/old_disk /dev/new_disk rescued.log
sudo ddrescue -r 1 /dev/old_disk /dev/new_disk rescued.log
In this example, a disk is being transferred to an image file,
rather than to another disk.
-b8M max block size 8MB per transfer, auto-adjusts itself
/dev/sdb source disk
sdb.raw destination image file
sdb.log text file keeps track of progress
-S sparse (only helps if disk was whitened with zeros first, optional)
sudo ddrescue -S -b8M /dev/sdb /mount/external/backup/sdb.raw
/mount/external/backup/sdb.log
I've checked my records and I don't seem to have a worked example.
I think the problem was, the example with the -S in it,
all the sectors were collected on the first pass, so there
was no need to do a second pass. If a second pass was
attempted, it would have exited in a microsecond, because
there was no work to do.
You can use
ddrescue
to get the OS to tell you how to install it. Perhaps
sudo apt install gddrescue
is what it answers, as the command to use.
Then
man ddrescue
for the options.
The first major argument is the source (/dev/sdX)
The second argument can be a disk when cloning (/dev/sdY)
or if you have a formatted partition just sitting
there which is 500GB in size, you can dump to
sdb.raw on that partition. That's how you'd make
a backup image.
The disk dump command (dd), which is available on
more platforms, is less polished. It uses if=
for the source disk. It uses of= for the destination disk.
My problem here, is I don't have any disks throwing an
I/O error, to use for making sample runs. I have good
disks or dead disks, and nothing useful for this sort
of work.
Using the manual page, you should be able to figure it out.
The important thing is, the package name is gddrescue,
while the executable is ddrescue, and the "sudo" thing
means to elevate to root user so that physical address
to the disk is possible.
There are backup softwares which promise to do this
sort of thing, but... I don't trust them. One test
showed the maker lied about their capabilities. At
least with gddrescue, I know it does what it says
on the tin. The format they use for the .log file,
shows they thought about how to do this a bit.
This wasn't a ten minute software development effort.
Paul
Well, I made a Linux Live DVD using the Debian distribution, and booted
into Debian.

I selected Files, and Debian showed the Macintosh HD, but also gave a
notification that the folder contents could not be displayed.

I then went to Terminal to see if I could do anything there. I just
entered 'man ddrescue' to see if the manual had help for ddrescue
commands. Nope. I also entered 'man help' and got a whole list of
commands with syntax.

The Debian distribution that I got said it had ddrescue package. Maybe
not. Maybe I'll give it another try with Knoppix.

But if this distribution doesn't recognize the Macintosh HD folders, I
wonder if ddrescue will see them.
Boris
2018-07-07 01:09:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boris
Well, I made a Linux Live DVD using the Debian distribution, and booted
into Debian.
I selected Files, and Debian showed the Macintosh HD, but also gave a
notification that the folder contents could not be displayed.
I then went to Terminal to see if I could do anything there. I just
entered 'man ddrescue' to see if the manual had help for ddrescue
commands. Nope. I also entered 'man help' and got a whole list of
commands with syntax.
The Debian distribution that I got said it had ddrescue package. Maybe
not. Maybe I'll give it another try with Knoppix.
But if this distribution doesn't recognize the Macintosh HD folders, I
wonder if ddrescue will see them.
Here are relevant screenshots:


https://postimg.cc/gallery/2k7wuwtcs/
Paul
2018-07-07 02:57:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boris
Post by Boris
Well, I made a Linux Live DVD using the Debian distribution, and booted
into Debian.
I selected Files, and Debian showed the Macintosh HD, but also gave a
notification that the folder contents could not be displayed.
I then went to Terminal to see if I could do anything there. I just
entered 'man ddrescue' to see if the manual had help for ddrescue
commands. Nope. I also entered 'man help' and got a whole list of
commands with syntax.
The Debian distribution that I got said it had ddrescue package. Maybe
not. Maybe I'll give it another try with Knoppix.
But if this distribution doesn't recognize the Macintosh HD folders, I
wonder if ddrescue will see them.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/2k7wuwtcs/
First step is type

ddrescue

as if you want to run it.

The system will find it is missing, and the system
will tell you what the package name is and what
command to use. The command should be similar to

sudo apt install gddrescue

But because distros vary on packaging, that's
why you're relying on the system to tell you what
to install.

After the package is installed, then

man ddrescue

should work, as well as

ddrescue --Version

or similar. You can pummel it with commands, until
it admits to having parameters.

ddrescue -h
ddrescue --help
ddrescue -V
ddrescue --version

*******

The system might have a

disks

or a

gparted
sudo gparted

command. You might then discover the relationship
between the /dev/sdX or /dev/sdY part of things, versus
the file systems involved.

Say your Mac disk is /dev/sdb.
First, issue the command to get the package installer name

disktype

Then it'll say

sudo apt install disktype

Then, try out the command, such as

disktype /dev/sdb

If that's the Mac disk, it'll tell you that partition
number 9 is the Apple_HFS+ volume.

If you use

sudo gparted

it can see the partitions on the Mac disk. You can
go to the nineth partition, right click and see if a
"Mount" option is available. HFS+ volumes can be journaled,
and maybe Linux can see it's messed up and won't touch it.
But the Linux way should be to mount it "ro" or Read Only
in a case like that.

This is me, messing around with my ddrescue-style .dd of my
80GB Macintosh IDE drive. In terminal, first you make
a mount point (where the automounter would normally
be working). That's as good a place as any when working
on a LiveCD.

sudo mkdir /media/macsdb

This particular command assumes the thing to be mounted
is a bitmap file.

sudo mount -t hfsplus -o loop,ro macsdb.dd /media/macsdb

Now, if it was a device, the problem I have is whether
the mounter knows about partition 9 or not. I don't think
this worked for me.

sudo mount -t hfsplus -o ro /dev/sdb9 /media/macsdb

And later

sudo umount /media/macsdb

If you list /dev like this

ls /dev
sudo ls /dev

and look at the sdb entries, you might see whether the
OS respects the Mac partition table or not. Gparted
knows what it is (because GParted *messed up* a
Mac disk for me). You would not be making partition
table changes in there, merely seeing if the "Mount"
option is available in the right-click menu or not,
for the ninth partition.

I think the most encouraging output will come from

sudo disktype /dev/sdb

as it does know a Mac disk when it sees one. You'll
feel "warm all over" when you see the output. That's
because so many other commands are going to give you
a hard time :-)

Paul
Paul
2018-07-07 05:24:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boris
Post by Boris
Well, I made a Linux Live DVD using the Debian distribution, and booted
into Debian.
I selected Files, and Debian showed the Macintosh HD, but also gave a
notification that the folder contents could not be displayed.
I then went to Terminal to see if I could do anything there. I just
entered 'man ddrescue' to see if the manual had help for ddrescue
commands. Nope. I also entered 'man help' and got a whole list of
commands with syntax.
The Debian distribution that I got said it had ddrescue package. Maybe
not. Maybe I'll give it another try with Knoppix.
But if this distribution doesn't recognize the Macintosh HD folders, I
wonder if ddrescue will see them.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/2k7wuwtcs/
In these examples, I'm using a bitmap copy of an 80GB
Mac hard drive. Rather than plugging in that hard drive.

In the first picture, you can see gparted giving a representation
of the Mac disk. Partition #9 is the first data partition.
But the partitions can go up to at least #26, if you make
the mistake of putting multiple partitions on one disk.

With a real disk drive, you'd try

sudo gparted /dev/sda

Loading Image...

*******

In this shot, "disktype" shows the partition table. Partition #9
is the HFSPlus data partition. The "wrapper" mentioned there, is
present so if the disk is plugged into a MacOS 8.5 computer, a
snotty warning message is presented to the user about the contents
not being available.

On a read disk drive, you'd try

sudo disktype /dev/sda

Loading Image...

*******

In this shot, the partition is being mounted, and the ls command
shows the disk contents.

Loading Image...

sudo mkdir /media/macsda

sudo mount -t hfsplus -o ro /dev/sda /media/macsda

df

ls /media/macsda

sudo umount /media/macsda

The questionable part in that sequence, is whether
the mount command is smart enough to jump over the
first eight tiny partitions, and open the only
HFSPLUS which is present. It happened that way for my
loopback mount of the bitmap version of the disk,
but I can't be sure it'll work for your physical disk.

This says nothing about I/O errors.

Linux could still get an I/O error if you
try to copy off files. Using the "ro" option is an
attempt to keep it "read-only" while working on it.

Paul
Paul
2018-07-08 09:34:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boris
Post by Boris
Well, I made a Linux Live DVD using the Debian distribution, and booted
into Debian.
I selected Files, and Debian showed the Macintosh HD, but also gave a
notification that the folder contents could not be displayed.
I then went to Terminal to see if I could do anything there. I just
entered 'man ddrescue' to see if the manual had help for ddrescue
commands. Nope. I also entered 'man help' and got a whole list of
commands with syntax.
The Debian distribution that I got said it had ddrescue package. Maybe
not. Maybe I'll give it another try with Knoppix.
But if this distribution doesn't recognize the Macintosh HD folders, I
wonder if ddrescue will see them.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/2k7wuwtcs/
I set up a real hard drive with a Mac image on it.
And I was shocked when the file manager in Linux (Ubuntu 18.04)
understood the multiple partitions on the Mac disk and actually
mounted the partition I selected. This is the release I used.

more /etc/lsb-release

DISTRIB_ID=Ubuntu
DISTRIB_RELEASE=18.04
DISTRIB_CODENAME=bionic
DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu Bionic Beaver (development branch)"

In the /etc/mtab file, this is the entry for the mounted file system.
(Mounted by clicking the partition, in the name of science.)
Using the "remount" command, you might be able to change the "-o rw"
to "-o ro" and make the partition read only while working on it. It doesn't
hurt my setup, because my disk is a copy of an existing .img of the thing.

# This is not a command. This is a line in mtab, recording the mount OP.
# The parameters suggest a full-featured manual command line operation instead.

/dev/sda18 /media/ubuntu/MacBak hfsplus rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,umask=22,uid=999,gid=999,nls=utf8 0 0

If done manually, this is approximately what you'd do. The first actual
HFS+ partition on the Mac disk is 9, and this one is about half
way out. The Mac disk might be able to handle 20 partitions or so.
At a guess.

# make a mount point in slash

sudo mkdir /media/ubuntu/MacBak

# mount it

sudo mount -t hfsplus -o ro,nls=utf8 /dev/sda18 /media/ubuntu/MacBak

Now, you got an "I/O error" at your top level, whereas
I got "Permission Denied", and you can see from the goofy
ownership displayed on the screen, why that happened.

Loading Image...

In this thread, you can see the conclusion was, that
some flavor of ddrescue run is called for.

https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/109673/how-to-repair-a-corrupted-hfs-partition-from-a-damaged-hard-disk

A brief mention of the versions of ddrescue is made here.

https://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/Damaged_Hard_Disk

# compare the versions here, to the version of gddrescue
# offered in your package manager.

http://download.savannah.gnu.org/releases/ddrescue/

# Version 1.23 was released Feb 2018.

ddrescue-1.23.tar.lz

My copy of Ubuntu offers version 1.22 .

Loading Image...

After it's installed, the Properties further down
shows the manual page is "ddrescue".

man ddrescue

*******

You can use the "smartmontools" package to get smartctl.

sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda

That will dump info like this. This is actually a good
disk, so the reallocated is still "0". This has nothing to
do with estimating how many "I/O errors" are present,
because just one I/O error in a file allocation table,
is going to cause havoc.

Loading Image...

After you've made two safety copies of the disk, you can
experiment with tools like "Disk First Aid" from a Mac
installer CD, and try and repair it. But only work on a
copy, not on the original ("sick") disk.

Paul
Boris
2018-07-09 03:18:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Boris
Well, I made a Linux Live DVD using the Debian distribution, and
booted into Debian.
I selected Files, and Debian showed the Macintosh HD, but also gave a
notification that the folder contents could not be displayed.
I then went to Terminal to see if I could do anything there. I just
entered 'man ddrescue' to see if the manual had help for ddrescue
commands. Nope. I also entered 'man help' and got a whole list of
commands with syntax.
The Debian distribution that I got said it had ddrescue package.
Maybe not. Maybe I'll give it another try with Knoppix.
But if this distribution doesn't recognize the Macintosh HD folders, I
wonder if ddrescue will see them.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/2k7wuwtcs/
I set up a real hard drive with a Mac image on it.
And I was shocked when the file manager in Linux (Ubuntu 18.04)
understood the multiple partitions on the Mac disk and actually
mounted the partition I selected. This is the release I used.
more /etc/lsb-release
DISTRIB_ID=Ubuntu
DISTRIB_RELEASE=18.04
DISTRIB_CODENAME=bionic
DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu Bionic Beaver (development branch)"
In the /etc/mtab file, this is the entry for the mounted file system.
(Mounted by clicking the partition, in the name of science.)
Using the "remount" command, you might be able to change the "-o rw"
to "-o ro" and make the partition read only while working on it. It
doesn't hurt my setup, because my disk is a copy of an existing .img of
the thing.
# This is not a command. This is a line in mtab, recording the mount OP.
# The parameters suggest a full-featured manual command line operation instead.
/dev/sda18 /media/ubuntu/MacBak hfsplus
rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,umask=22,uid=999,gid=999,nls=utf8 0 0
If done manually, this is approximately what you'd do. The first actual
HFS+ partition on the Mac disk is 9, and this one is about half
way out. The Mac disk might be able to handle 20 partitions or so.
At a guess.
# make a mount point in slash
sudo mkdir /media/ubuntu/MacBak
# mount it
sudo mount -t hfsplus -o ro,nls=utf8 /dev/sda18 /media/ubuntu/MacBak
Now, you got an "I/O error" at your top level, whereas
I got "Permission Denied", and you can see from the goofy
ownership displayed on the screen, why that happened.
https://s22.postimg.cc/xv1ict42p/my_mac_permissions.gif
In this thread, you can see the conclusion was, that
some flavor of ddrescue run is called for.
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/109673/how-to-repair-a-corrupted
-hfs-partition-from-a-damaged-hard-disk
A brief mention of the versions of ddrescue is made here.
https://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/Damaged_Hard_Disk
# compare the versions here, to the version of gddrescue
# offered in your package manager.
http://download.savannah.gnu.org/releases/ddrescue/
# Version 1.23 was released Feb 2018.
ddrescue-1.23.tar.lz
My copy of Ubuntu offers version 1.22 .
https://s22.postimg.cc/e2zcdcsgx/synaptic_offers.gif
After it's installed, the Properties further down
shows the manual page is "ddrescue".
man ddrescue
*******
You can use the "smartmontools" package to get smartctl.
sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda
That will dump info like this. This is actually a good
disk, so the reallocated is still "0". This has nothing to
do with estimating how many "I/O errors" are present,
because just one I/O error in a file allocation table,
is going to cause havoc.
https://s22.postimg.cc/y059mhyj5/Smart_Mon_Tools.gif
After you've made two safety copies of the disk, you can
experiment with tools like "Disk First Aid" from a Mac
installer CD, and try and repair it. But only work on a
copy, not on the original ("sick") disk.
Paul
By now I have three versions of Linux Live DVDs I've tried them all. But,
I still have not imaged the corrupt Mac HD. I'm don't trust myself enough
yet to be sure I won't completely corrupt the Mac HD, if it's not already
fully corrupt, let alone one of my own HDs.

I tried these LinuxLive dvds in this order:


1) Debianlive 9.4.0 cinnamon
My first look at Linux; ok, I sort of see what Linux is all about, and why
my son wanted to install on a 32GB Lenovo laptop, Win10 was too bulky and
slow HOwever, I couldn't mount the Mac HD with Debian. Maybe it could be
done, but I couldn't see a way to do it. I used the termial and 'help' to
get some commands, but I had no idea what they were. The terminal also
told me that 'ddrescue' was not a recognized command, but I thought since
I couldn't mount the Mac HD, it didn't matter. Later, after I tried
Knoppix, I think that maybe ddrescue had to be loaded as a package from an
online source.

I did lose at a game of chess, though.

https://postimg.cc/gallery/2qkkkgfbw/
debian


2) Knoppix 8.1-2017-09-05
Knoppix seemed to come with a little bit more onboard, and the GUI looked
sleeker. I did do some more reading and in Terminal mode:

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install gddrescue (not 'ddrescue'; different version?)
sudo apt-get install hwinfo (hardware information, which did show the Mac
HD)

gparted did find my WinOS, my thumbdrive (Store N Go), etc, but not the
Mac HD

Still couldn't mount the Mac HD.

Lost another game of chess.

https://postimg.cc/gallery/1i1ackcrg/
knoppix

3) Ubuntu-18.04-desktop-amd64 (Bionic Beaver <g>)
UbuntuBB had the most applications of the three, and it took the longest
to load up; about five times as long as the first two. The GUI was the
slickest.

In Terminal mode, I found that hwinfo was not included in UbuntuBB, but
'hwinfo --short' returned: Command 'hwinfo' not found, but can be
installed with: 'sudo apt install hwinfo' (That was a little different
command line than with Knoppix.)

Also in Terminal mode, 'gddrescue' returned:
Command 'gddrescue' not found, did you mean
Command 'ddrescue' from deb gddrescue
Try: sudo apt install <deb name> (No 'get', like in Knoppix)

Knoppix uses gddrescue, and UbuntuBB wants to use ddrescue? I'll have to
figure this one out. I didn't install any more packages (I think they are
called packages, like apps are to Windows, or Skills are to Alexa?)

I don't remeber the tool, I think it ws Drives, that was able to mount all
of the connected drives like my WinOS, thumb drive, CD/DVD, etc. The Mac
HD showed up as having three partitions:

partiton 1
Size: 210MB
Device: /dev/sdf1
Partition Type: EFI System
Contents: FAT (32-bit version--Not Mounted)

partition 2
Size: 500GB
Device: /dev/sdf2
Partition Type: Apple HFS/HFS+
Contents: HFS+ Mounted at: /media/ubuntu/MacintoshHD (I don't understand
that path; doesn't seem to point to the physical Mac HD, more to learn)

partiton 3
Size: 134MB
Device: /dev/sdf
Contents: Unallocated Space

Here's some screenshots:

https://postimg.cc/gallery/2j64ffj4s/
ubuntu

The screenshoots for Debian and Knoppix were done with a digital camera.
I found a screenshoot app in Ubuntu, and saved to my thumbdrive.

Internet connection was fine in all three distros, but I couldn't get
wifi/router to work in order to send to wifi printers. I'll figure it
out.

At this point, I'm calling it a day. More fun tomorrow. I have and old
XP machine and lots of hard drives. I may try a dual boot set up.

Thanks for all the help, Paul.
Paul
2018-07-09 04:16:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Boris
Well, I made a Linux Live DVD using the Debian distribution, and
booted into Debian.
I selected Files, and Debian showed the Macintosh HD, but also gave a
notification that the folder contents could not be displayed.
I then went to Terminal to see if I could do anything there. I just
entered 'man ddrescue' to see if the manual had help for ddrescue
commands. Nope. I also entered 'man help' and got a whole list of
commands with syntax.
The Debian distribution that I got said it had ddrescue package.
Maybe not. Maybe I'll give it another try with Knoppix.
But if this distribution doesn't recognize the Macintosh HD folders, I
wonder if ddrescue will see them.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/2k7wuwtcs/
I set up a real hard drive with a Mac image on it.
And I was shocked when the file manager in Linux (Ubuntu 18.04)
understood the multiple partitions on the Mac disk and actually
mounted the partition I selected. This is the release I used.
more /etc/lsb-release
DISTRIB_ID=Ubuntu
DISTRIB_RELEASE=18.04
DISTRIB_CODENAME=bionic
DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu Bionic Beaver (development branch)"
In the /etc/mtab file, this is the entry for the mounted file system.
(Mounted by clicking the partition, in the name of science.)
Using the "remount" command, you might be able to change the "-o rw"
to "-o ro" and make the partition read only while working on it. It
doesn't hurt my setup, because my disk is a copy of an existing .img of
the thing.
# This is not a command. This is a line in mtab, recording the mount OP.
# The parameters suggest a full-featured manual command line operation instead.
/dev/sda18 /media/ubuntu/MacBak hfsplus
rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,umask=22,uid=999,gid=999,nls=utf8 0 0
If done manually, this is approximately what you'd do. The first actual
HFS+ partition on the Mac disk is 9, and this one is about half
way out. The Mac disk might be able to handle 20 partitions or so.
At a guess.
# make a mount point in slash
sudo mkdir /media/ubuntu/MacBak
# mount it
sudo mount -t hfsplus -o ro,nls=utf8 /dev/sda18 /media/ubuntu/MacBak
Now, you got an "I/O error" at your top level, whereas
I got "Permission Denied", and you can see from the goofy
ownership displayed on the screen, why that happened.
https://s22.postimg.cc/xv1ict42p/my_mac_permissions.gif
In this thread, you can see the conclusion was, that
some flavor of ddrescue run is called for.
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/109673/how-to-repair-a-corrupted
-hfs-partition-from-a-damaged-hard-disk
A brief mention of the versions of ddrescue is made here.
https://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/Damaged_Hard_Disk
# compare the versions here, to the version of gddrescue
# offered in your package manager.
http://download.savannah.gnu.org/releases/ddrescue/
# Version 1.23 was released Feb 2018.
ddrescue-1.23.tar.lz
My copy of Ubuntu offers version 1.22 .
https://s22.postimg.cc/e2zcdcsgx/synaptic_offers.gif
After it's installed, the Properties further down
shows the manual page is "ddrescue".
man ddrescue
*******
You can use the "smartmontools" package to get smartctl.
sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda
That will dump info like this. This is actually a good
disk, so the reallocated is still "0". This has nothing to
do with estimating how many "I/O errors" are present,
because just one I/O error in a file allocation table,
is going to cause havoc.
https://s22.postimg.cc/y059mhyj5/Smart_Mon_Tools.gif
After you've made two safety copies of the disk, you can
experiment with tools like "Disk First Aid" from a Mac
installer CD, and try and repair it. But only work on a
copy, not on the original ("sick") disk.
Paul
By now I have three versions of Linux Live DVDs I've tried them all. But,
I still have not imaged the corrupt Mac HD. I'm don't trust myself enough
yet to be sure I won't completely corrupt the Mac HD, if it's not already
fully corrupt, let alone one of my own HDs.
1) Debianlive 9.4.0 cinnamon
My first look at Linux; ok, I sort of see what Linux is all about, and why
my son wanted to install on a 32GB Lenovo laptop, Win10 was too bulky and
slow HOwever, I couldn't mount the Mac HD with Debian. Maybe it could be
done, but I couldn't see a way to do it. I used the termial and 'help' to
get some commands, but I had no idea what they were. The terminal also
told me that 'ddrescue' was not a recognized command, but I thought since
I couldn't mount the Mac HD, it didn't matter. Later, after I tried
Knoppix, I think that maybe ddrescue had to be loaded as a package from an
online source.
I did lose at a game of chess, though.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/2qkkkgfbw/
debian
2) Knoppix 8.1-2017-09-05
Knoppix seemed to come with a little bit more onboard, and the GUI looked
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install gddrescue (not 'ddrescue'; different version?)
sudo apt-get install hwinfo (hardware information, which did show the Mac
HD)
gparted did find my WinOS, my thumbdrive (Store N Go), etc, but not the
Mac HD
Still couldn't mount the Mac HD.
Lost another game of chess.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/1i1ackcrg/
knoppix
3) Ubuntu-18.04-desktop-amd64 (Bionic Beaver <g>)
UbuntuBB had the most applications of the three, and it took the longest
to load up; about five times as long as the first two. The GUI was the
slickest.
In Terminal mode, I found that hwinfo was not included in UbuntuBB, but
'hwinfo --short' returned: Command 'hwinfo' not found, but can be
installed with: 'sudo apt install hwinfo' (That was a little different
command line than with Knoppix.)
Command 'gddrescue' not found, did you mean
Command 'ddrescue' from deb gddrescue
Try: sudo apt install <deb name> (No 'get', like in Knoppix)
Knoppix uses gddrescue, and UbuntuBB wants to use ddrescue? I'll have to
figure this one out. I didn't install any more packages (I think they are
called packages, like apps are to Windows, or Skills are to Alexa?)
I don't remeber the tool, I think it ws Drives, that was able to mount all
of the connected drives like my WinOS, thumb drive, CD/DVD, etc. The Mac
partiton 1
Size: 210MB
Device: /dev/sdf1
Partition Type: EFI System
Contents: FAT (32-bit version--Not Mounted)
partition 2
Size: 500GB
Device: /dev/sdf2
Partition Type: Apple HFS/HFS+
Contents: HFS+ Mounted at: /media/ubuntu/MacintoshHD (I don't understand
that path; doesn't seem to point to the physical Mac HD, more to learn)
partiton 3
Size: 134MB
Device: /dev/sdf
Contents: Unallocated Space
https://postimg.cc/gallery/2j64ffj4s/
ubuntu
The screenshoots for Debian and Knoppix were done with a digital camera.
I found a screenshoot app in Ubuntu, and saved to my thumbdrive.
Internet connection was fine in all three distros, but I couldn't get
wifi/router to work in order to send to wifi printers. I'll figure it
out.
At this point, I'm calling it a day. More fun tomorrow. I have and old
XP machine and lots of hard drives. I may try a dual boot set up.
Thanks for all the help, Paul.
My priority would be to get some ddrescue going first.

If I was doing it, I'd save the mount attempts for a
second thing to try.

Your disk setup is more modern than mine. Yours looks like
a UEFI setup of some sort. Mine has way more Apple specific
small partitions on it. The OS drive has around eight tiny
partitions (at least one has drivers), and the partition
number nine is where the disk starts. Your disk on the other
hand, has the major partition as the second one.

The command line package manager is Aptitude, which might
have been a Debian thing. Older OSes use apt-get for installation.
Newer OSes changed the name to just apt. Synaptic is the
GUI overlay on top of the set of apt commands. Synaptic is
not installed by default on Ubuntu now. You have to go
to the Software (orange file folder) application and turn
on Universe and Multiverse. Drop to a terminal and type
"synaptic" and follow the instructions. And as long as it
installs, you can follow up with "sudo synaptic" and search
for packages. You can type "ddrescue" into the Search box
in synaptic and find the package names.

Once a package is installed, in Synaptic you can go back
to that line in the display and do Properties, and the
freshly installed package will be shown as a file list.
It's there you'd see "/usr/bin/ddrescue" and know the
name was ddrescue. Similarly, if you scroll down, you
can see the name of the manual page. So you can do

man ddrescue

or whatever.

I was surprised to find Ubuntu mounting my Mac disk that I
set up yesterday. It wasn't that long ago, that only
gparted had a foggy notion of Mac disks. I wouldn't
use gparted to change things on the Mac disk, without
a lot more testing, as I found some pretty serious
problems with it (partition table *destroyed*). Luckily,
I was working with a copy. Even the setup I used yesterday
is a copy I can turf when done.

*******

Device: /dev/sdf2

Mount point: /media/ubuntu/MacintoshHD

The physical device is a simple "counting scheme". The
drives are lettered from a to z, as if this was Disk
Management where the disks are numbered 0..9 say.
So "sdf" is the sixth hard drive detected so far.

The digit that comes after it, is the partition number.
Your first partition is EDI, the second is the HFSPlus partition.

/dev/sdf # Starts at offset 0. A good reference point
# when ddrescue copying.

/dev/sdf1 # Points to the very first sector of the
# first partition.

/dev/sdf2 # Points to the very first sector of the
# second partition.

When you mount a partition, it "goes on top" of a
mount point. before mounting, if you

ls /media/ubuntu/MacintoshHD

it would be empty. If there was an actual file in the folder
at this point in time, it "cannot be seen" while the mount
is present. So if we do this...

sudo mount -t hfsplus /dev/sdf2 /media/ubuntu/MacintoshHD

ls /media/ubuntu/MacintoshHD

the contents of the Machintosh HD will be showing in Terminal,
not any file(s) in that folder before it was used as a mount
point.

Even Windows has the notion of mount points, as the namespace
needs a root, and things progress downwards from the root. So
while Windows doesn't expose the details of mounting in quite
the same way, some of the concepts are similar. This is why
the vhdmount utility from Microsoft for mounting .vhd files,
it required that C: be an NTFS partition. and that hints
that this was a byproduct of needing the mount a bitmap
style thing. Several commercial softwares found a way to
do that, without constraints.

I would stick with Ubuntu Bionic Beaver for the moment,
as you'll get some pretty recent versions of packages.
The only thing I don't like, is mounting RW by default,
and then needing to use, say, "sudo remount -o ro" to
make it read only.

But your first priorities right now, are ddrescue to
make a copy, and perhaps "SmartMonTools" and smartctl,
to find out how healthy the SMART table is on the
sick drive. The only kinds of disks that don't
have SMART, might be SCSI and SAS, whereas a lot
if IDE or SATA should have SMART. When you use a USB
tether, that may block SMART passthru. A direct connection
to a desktop disk cable, will enable SMART.

Paul
Frank Slootweg
2018-07-09 16:53:49 UTC
Permalink
Boris <***@nospam.invalid> wrote:
[...]
Post by Boris
By now I have three versions of Linux Live DVDs I've tried them all. But,
I still have not imaged the corrupt Mac HD. I'm don't trust myself enough
yet to be sure I won't completely corrupt the Mac HD, if it's not already
fully corrupt, let alone one of my own HDs.
Considering you have little to no Linux experience, it's (IMO) rather/
too risky to use Linux for this delicate and important data recovery
attempt.

If I were in your situation, I would first try a disk-cloning
operation on your Windows system, before considering to try unknown
Linux territory.

In case you did not see it, here's part of my earlier response to
Paul on this subject:

<quote>

Thinking of sector-by-sector copying, couldn't Macrium Reflect FREE's
disk-cloning function be used as an alternative?

The disk-cloning function has in Advanced Options:

"Perform a Forensic Sector Copy. This option will copy all sectors from
the source disk, whether they are is use or not."

Macrium Reflect FREE would both be easier - no Linux boot disk needed
- and safer - easier to see which is the real source/original disk and
which is the to-be-copied-to disk.

</quote>

Of course any other (Windows-based) disk-cloning software - such as
Acronis - can be used instead of Macrium Reflect FREE.

Please let me know if you need more help with this [1], but note that
I'll be absent after Saturday.

[1] I've not used the Macrium Reflect FREE disk-cloning function and
don't have a HFS+ disk to experiment with, but I have experience with
Macrium Reflect FREE and disk imaging / disk cloning in general.
Boris
2018-07-09 18:11:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Slootweg
[...]
Post by Boris
By now I have three versions of Linux Live DVDs I've tried them all.
But, I still have not imaged the corrupt Mac HD. I'm don't trust
myself enough yet to be sure I won't completely corrupt the Mac HD, if
it's not already fully corrupt, let alone one of my own HDs.
Considering you have little to no Linux experience, it's (IMO) rather/
too risky to use Linux for this delicate and important data recovery
attempt.
If I were in your situation, I would first try a disk-cloning
operation on your Windows system, before considering to try unknown
Linux territory.
In case you did not see it, here's part of my earlier response to
<quote>
Thinking of sector-by-sector copying, couldn't Macrium Reflect FREE's
disk-cloning function be used as an alternative?
"Perform a Forensic Sector Copy. This option will copy all sectors from
the source disk, whether they are is use or not."
Macrium Reflect FREE would both be easier - no Linux boot disk needed
- and safer - easier to see which is the real source/original disk and
which is the to-be-copied-to disk.
</quote>
Of course any other (Windows-based) disk-cloning software - such as
Acronis - can be used instead of Macrium Reflect FREE.
Please let me know if you need more help with this [1], but note that
I'll be absent after Saturday.
[1] I've not used the Macrium Reflect FREE disk-cloning function and
don't have a HFS+ disk to experiment with, but I have experience with
Macrium Reflect FREE and disk imaging / disk cloning in general.
Hi, Frank,

Yes, I've seen all of your (much appreciated) replies, and that's why I'm
being so cautious with my steps. Yep, I know next to nothing about Linux,
and as you say, confusing the source drive with the destination drive in a
command would be disastrous. The last time I really did command line
stuff was back in the CP/M days with a Xerox 820, that had dual Shugart 8"
floppy drives. Wordstar, SuperCalc, dBase. Wooooweeee! Then MS/DOS,
command.com, autoexec.bat.

Right now the Mac HD is connected via USB, but I think I will connect
directly to SATA and power on this motherboard (Win10 Dell XPS8100).

I have used Acronis WD version, and AOMEI to make clones/images. I
haven't tried Macrium Reflect FREE, but have it loaded on this machine.

I'm not in a hurry to get to some endpoint. This has become an ongoing
project for me. Thanks for letting me know your availability is limited.
pjp
2018-07-09 19:12:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boris
Post by Frank Slootweg
[...]
Post by Boris
By now I have three versions of Linux Live DVDs I've tried them all.
But, I still have not imaged the corrupt Mac HD. I'm don't trust
myself enough yet to be sure I won't completely corrupt the Mac HD, if
it's not already fully corrupt, let alone one of my own HDs.
Considering you have little to no Linux experience, it's (IMO) rather/
too risky to use Linux for this delicate and important data recovery
attempt.
If I were in your situation, I would first try a disk-cloning
operation on your Windows system, before considering to try unknown
Linux territory.
In case you did not see it, here's part of my earlier response to
<quote>
Thinking of sector-by-sector copying, couldn't Macrium Reflect FREE's
disk-cloning function be used as an alternative?
"Perform a Forensic Sector Copy. This option will copy all sectors from
the source disk, whether they are is use or not."
Macrium Reflect FREE would both be easier - no Linux boot disk needed
- and safer - easier to see which is the real source/original disk and
which is the to-be-copied-to disk.
</quote>
Of course any other (Windows-based) disk-cloning software - such as
Acronis - can be used instead of Macrium Reflect FREE.
Please let me know if you need more help with this [1], but note that
I'll be absent after Saturday.
[1] I've not used the Macrium Reflect FREE disk-cloning function and
don't have a HFS+ disk to experiment with, but I have experience with
Macrium Reflect FREE and disk imaging / disk cloning in general.
Hi, Frank,
I was under the impression that extFat partition is supported by both
OS's. Why not just use a Mac to copy the files to such a formatted disk
and then read them in Windows?
Paul
2018-07-09 23:57:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by pjp
Post by Boris
Post by Frank Slootweg
[...]
Post by Boris
By now I have three versions of Linux Live DVDs I've tried them all.
But, I still have not imaged the corrupt Mac HD. I'm don't trust
myself enough yet to be sure I won't completely corrupt the Mac HD, if
it's not already fully corrupt, let alone one of my own HDs.
Considering you have little to no Linux experience, it's (IMO) rather/
too risky to use Linux for this delicate and important data recovery
attempt.
If I were in your situation, I would first try a disk-cloning
operation on your Windows system, before considering to try unknown
Linux territory.
In case you did not see it, here's part of my earlier response to
<quote>
Thinking of sector-by-sector copying, couldn't Macrium Reflect FREE's
disk-cloning function be used as an alternative?
"Perform a Forensic Sector Copy. This option will copy all sectors from
the source disk, whether they are is use or not."
Macrium Reflect FREE would both be easier - no Linux boot disk needed
- and safer - easier to see which is the real source/original disk and
which is the to-be-copied-to disk.
</quote>
Of course any other (Windows-based) disk-cloning software - such as
Acronis - can be used instead of Macrium Reflect FREE.
Please let me know if you need more help with this [1], but note that
I'll be absent after Saturday.
[1] I've not used the Macrium Reflect FREE disk-cloning function and
don't have a HFS+ disk to experiment with, but I have experience with
Macrium Reflect FREE and disk imaging / disk cloning in general.
Hi, Frank,
I was under the impression that extFat partition is supported by both
OS's. Why not just use a Mac to copy the files to such a formatted disk
and then read them in Windows?
You could use the existing Mac, a new hard drive for the
OS partition, but... you'd need the install media.
Which may have been thrown just about anywhere after
the machine was unpacked.

And the install media isn't "Windows quality" either.

The user is expected to futz with the Installer menu,
find the disk partitioning tool in the Installer
menu, then *guess* what partition type it might like for
installation. I just about popped a blood vessel trying
to use my 10.3 discs to install MacOSX in the thing.
The OPs setup should be GPT, mine was HFSPlus journaled
for the main partition.

Why, it's almost as much fun as Linux :-/

I don't consider Linux to be a big deal. The DEs have
gotten worse over the years for bootstrapping
(figuring out what dash is). I particularly appreciate
and give extra points for any DE that leaves a Terminal
icon in the Task Bar, which takes a lot of pain
out of your first baby steps.

And naming all the tools different things, as you
go from distro to distro, makes me a bit crazy.
Nautilus, Thunar, Caja, Nemo, can you guess from
the name what they might do ? Now, when an environment
has "TextEdit", I award extra points. We need
more "Captain Obvious" in this stuff. Why can't
all distros call it "File Manager" in some menu,
and leave it as a surprise for later, that the
developers call it Thunar. Firefox could be
"Web Browser". The "Captain Obvious" program could
show as "Captain Obvious" in the menu :-)

Paul
Boris
2018-07-10 01:12:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by pjp
Post by Boris
Post by Frank Slootweg
[...]
Post by Boris
By now I have three versions of Linux Live DVDs I've tried them all.
But, I still have not imaged the corrupt Mac HD. I'm don't trust
myself enough yet to be sure I won't completely corrupt the Mac HD, if
it's not already fully corrupt, let alone one of my own HDs.
Considering you have little to no Linux experience, it's (IMO) rather/
too risky to use Linux for this delicate and important data recovery
attempt.
If I were in your situation, I would first try a disk-cloning
operation on your Windows system, before considering to try unknown
Linux territory.
In case you did not see it, here's part of my earlier response to
<quote>
Thinking of sector-by-sector copying, couldn't Macrium Reflect FREE's
disk-cloning function be used as an alternative?
"Perform a Forensic Sector Copy. This option will copy all sectors from
the source disk, whether they are is use or not."
Macrium Reflect FREE would both be easier - no Linux boot disk needed
- and safer - easier to see which is the real source/original disk and
which is the to-be-copied-to disk.
</quote>
Of course any other (Windows-based) disk-cloning software - such as
Acronis - can be used instead of Macrium Reflect FREE.
Please let me know if you need more help with this [1], but note that
I'll be absent after Saturday.
[1] I've not used the Macrium Reflect FREE disk-cloning function and
don't have a HFS+ disk to experiment with, but I have experience with
Macrium Reflect FREE and disk imaging / disk cloning in general.
Hi, Frank,
I was under the impression that extFat partition is supported by both
OS's. Why not just use a Mac to copy the files to such a formatted disk
and then read them in Windows?
You could use the existing Mac, a new hard drive for the
OS partition, but... you'd need the install media.
Which may have been thrown just about anywhere after
the machine was unpacked.
I was also thinking about buying a new hard drive and doing just that. I
do have the original install media on disc, Snow Leopard. Not sure if it
would install on a new hard drive, but I suspect yes. At this time, the
iOS disk is in the SuperDrive. I can't get it out because as I said, the
original Apple bluetooth keyboard is inoperative (battery left in keyboard
for five years, and seems to have 'cemented' shut the battery compartment
with alkaline residue), so I can't enact a keystroke sequence to eject the
disc. I did get an Insignia $20 USB kbd, which is Apple compatible, and
it has worked for booting from disc and arrow keys, but I don't know the
mapping for ejecting the disc.


So, at this point, I could install a brand new hard drive in the iMac,
fire it up, and press C (as instructed on the iOS disc), and see about
installing Snow Leopard. If it installs, I could see if it recognizes the
corrupt iMac hard drive.
Post by Paul
And the install media isn't "Windows quality" either.
The user is expected to futz with the Installer menu,
find the disk partitioning tool in the Installer
menu, then *guess* what partition type it might like for
installation. I just about popped a blood vessel trying
to use my 10.3 discs to install MacOSX in the thing.
The OPs setup should be GPT, mine was HFSPlus journaled
for the main partition.
Why, it's almost as much fun as Linux :-/
I don't consider Linux to be a big deal. The DEs have
gotten worse over the years for bootstrapping
(figuring out what dash is). I particularly appreciate
and give extra points for any DE that leaves a Terminal
icon in the Task Bar, which takes a lot of pain
out of your first baby steps.
And naming all the tools different things, as you
go from distro to distro, makes me a bit crazy.
Glad even you are driven crazy. As I went through only three distros, I
got the feeling that each 'author' was trying to outdo the others. But
then, different strokes and all that.
Post by Paul
Nautilus, Thunar, Caja, Nemo, can you guess from
the name what they might do ? Now, when an environment
has "TextEdit", I award extra points. We need
more "Captain Obvious" in this stuff. Why can't
all distros call it "File Manager" in some menu,
and leave it as a surprise for later, that the
developers call it Thunar. Firefox could be
"Web Browser". The "Captain Obvious" program could
show as "Captain Obvious" in the menu :-)
Paul
Paul
2018-07-10 02:16:58 UTC
Permalink
At this time, the iOS disk is in the SuperDrive. I can't get it out
Below the tray on mine, about 1.5" to 2" from the right hand
edge and just below the tray, you'll see a "paper clip hole".
Straight a stainless steel paper clip, to use as a pusher.
(Some of those hold their shape better.)

Place the end of the unraveled paper clip, into the hole.
Push on what is behind the hole. You should see some
movement of the tray.

Now, on mine, just below the paper clip hole, is a pearl
white plastic cover, which might house an activity LED.
I've never bothered to check whether that's working, as
a "tray cover" hides the drive in normal operation on
my G4.

The PC I'm sitting in front of, has the paper clip
hole in exactly the same relative location.

On some Macs, the trim around the drive tray can
hide the paper clip hole.

There are probably Macs that don't have the paper
clip hole. This is the recommended procedure...

Another trick is the force-eject on boot:

This is done by restarting your Mac and holding down
the mouse button (or trackpad button if you have a laptop)
as the system boots. Hold it down until the system boots,
again the disk should come out.

But maybe that won't work, depending on what other
hardware is missing from the machine. The paper clip
method isn't "a lot of fun", but it is more mechanical
and doesn't rely on tricks.

*******

And remember your project status:

1) You've experienced an I/O error on the drive.
(Whereas my test got Permission Denied.)
While there might be a technical explanation for this
that doesn't involve hard drive damage, we don't
know at this point, what shape the drive is in.

2) You haven't evaluated the SMART stats yet.
(HDTune in Windows. SmartMonTools in Linux.)

Mounting a sick disk on a freshly installed Mac,
might give initial joy in the ability to see the
disk icon. But things could rapidly fall apart if
the OS can't actually read the drive. I don't
recommend either CHKDSK or Disk First Aid on
sick drives, as the outcomes are too varied
to take the risk.

If a drive is sick, you want to make a copy of
it first. Maybe clonezilla would work. I don't know.
But use something. And if it's a 500GB drive, verify
that the "thing" the backup program got is 500GB in
size. Proving that you have a snapshot of *everything*.
If a file handle is lost, the file clusters could
still be there. A "conventional" backup might not
capture the "recoverable" files sitting on the disk.
A "ddrescue" style copy, gets as much as possible.
And ddrescue doesn't care about partition types,
as all it does is hoover up sectors. It has a
very simple job to do.

Paul
Boris
2018-07-10 20:28:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
At this time, the iOS disk is in the SuperDrive. I can't get it out
Below the tray on mine, about 1.5" to 2" from the right hand
edge and just below the tray, you'll see a "paper clip hole".
Straight a stainless steel paper clip, to use as a pusher.
(Some of those hold their shape better.)
Place the end of the unraveled paper clip, into the hole.
Push on what is behind the hole. You should see some
movement of the tray.
Now, on mine, just below the paper clip hole, is a pearl
white plastic cover, which might house an activity LED.
I've never bothered to check whether that's working, as
a "tray cover" hides the drive in normal operation on
my G4.
The PC I'm sitting in front of, has the paper clip
hole in exactly the same relative location.
On some Macs, the trim around the drive tray can
hide the paper clip hole.
There are probably Macs that don't have the paper
clip hole. This is the recommended procedure...
This is done by restarting your Mac and holding down
the mouse button (or trackpad button if you have a laptop)
as the system boots. Hold it down until the system boots,
again the disk should come out.
But maybe that won't work, depending on what other
hardware is missing from the machine. The paper clip
method isn't "a lot of fun", but it is more mechanical
and doesn't rely on tricks.
*******
1) You've experienced an I/O error on the drive.
(Whereas my test got Permission Denied.)
While there might be a technical explanation for this
that doesn't involve hard drive damage, we don't
know at this point, what shape the drive is in.
2) You haven't evaluated the SMART stats yet.
(HDTune in Windows. SmartMonTools in Linux.)
Mounting a sick disk on a freshly installed Mac,
might give initial joy in the ability to see the
disk icon. But things could rapidly fall apart if
the OS can't actually read the drive. I don't
recommend either CHKDSK or Disk First Aid on
sick drives, as the outcomes are too varied
to take the risk.
If a drive is sick, you want to make a copy of
it first. Maybe clonezilla would work. I don't know.
But use something. And if it's a 500GB drive, verify
that the "thing" the backup program got is 500GB in
size. Proving that you have a snapshot of *everything*.
If a file handle is lost, the file clusters could
still be there. A "conventional" backup might not
capture the "recoverable" files sitting on the disk.
A "ddrescue" style copy, gets as much as possible.
And ddrescue doesn't care about partition types,
as all it does is hoover up sectors. It has a
very simple job to do.
Paul
HD Tune results:


https://postimg.cc/gallery/1mcatob30/

There is no information in the Information screen.
There was nothing in the Health screen.
Benchmark shows error, so won't run.
Error Scan shows 100% Damaged Blocks.
Boris
2018-07-10 23:00:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
At this time, the iOS disk is in the SuperDrive. I can't get it out
Below the tray on mine, about 1.5" to 2" from the right hand
edge and just below the tray, you'll see a "paper clip hole".
Straight a stainless steel paper clip, to use as a pusher.
(Some of those hold their shape better.)
Place the end of the unraveled paper clip, into the hole.
Push on what is behind the hole. You should see some
movement of the tray.
Now, on mine, just below the paper clip hole, is a pearl
white plastic cover, which might house an activity LED.
I've never bothered to check whether that's working, as
a "tray cover" hides the drive in normal operation on
my G4.
The PC I'm sitting in front of, has the paper clip
hole in exactly the same relative location.
On some Macs, the trim around the drive tray can
hide the paper clip hole.
There are probably Macs that don't have the paper
clip hole. This is the recommended procedure...
This is done by restarting your Mac and holding down
the mouse button (or trackpad button if you have a laptop)
as the system boots. Hold it down until the system boots,
again the disk should come out.
But maybe that won't work, depending on what other
hardware is missing from the machine. The paper clip
method isn't "a lot of fun", but it is more mechanical
and doesn't rely on tricks.
*******
1) You've experienced an I/O error on the drive.
(Whereas my test got Permission Denied.)
While there might be a technical explanation for this
that doesn't involve hard drive damage, we don't
know at this point, what shape the drive is in.
2) You haven't evaluated the SMART stats yet.
(HDTune in Windows. SmartMonTools in Linux.)
Mounting a sick disk on a freshly installed Mac,
might give initial joy in the ability to see the
disk icon. But things could rapidly fall apart if
the OS can't actually read the drive. I don't
recommend either CHKDSK or Disk First Aid on
sick drives, as the outcomes are too varied
to take the risk.
If a drive is sick, you want to make a copy of
it first. Maybe clonezilla would work. I don't know.
But use something. And if it's a 500GB drive, verify
that the "thing" the backup program got is 500GB in
size. Proving that you have a snapshot of *everything*.
If a file handle is lost, the file clusters could
still be there. A "conventional" backup might not
capture the "recoverable" files sitting on the disk.
A "ddrescue" style copy, gets as much as possible.
And ddrescue doesn't care about partition types,
as all it does is hoover up sectors. It has a
very simple job to do.
Paul
Loaded Ubuntu 18.04.

I went here to get SmartMonTools for Linux, in particular, for Ubuntu 18.04
Bionic Beaver:

https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/smartmontools


I clicked the amd64 file, and it took me to the download page for
smartmontools:
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/amd64/smartmontools/download

which told me:
If you are running Ubuntu, it is strongly suggested to use a package manager
like aptitude or synaptic to download and install packages, instead of doing
so manually via this website.

aptitude was a red link, so I clicked on it (even though I knew I had it
already because I'd used it in terminal mode sudo apt-get etc...); when I
clicked on that link, it took me to the download page for aptitude:
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/aptitude

I clicked the amd64 file, which took me the download page for aptitude:
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/amd64/aptitude/download

which told me:
If you are running Ubuntu, it is strongly suggested to use a package manager
like aptitude or synaptic to download and install packages, instead of doing
so manually via this website.

Dizzying, frustrating, PITA.

OK. I kind of remember the sudo apt-get command, so I launch Terminal.

I figure I'll install both gddrescue and smartmontools.

https://postimg.cc/image/y2cmrgm2j/

I press y, and this comes up:

https://postimg.cc/image/6g9v6appn/

The only way I could close this window was to end the terminal command, so I
did.

I went here to find instructions on how to run SmartMonTools:

https://www.thomas-
krenn.com/en/wiki/Analyzing_a_Faulty_Hard_Disk_using_Smartctl#SMART_Tests


I opened Terminal, and typed (I was pummelling the thing by now)

smartctl -a /dev/sdf2

(The Disks app in Ubuntu had previously identified the iOS partition 2 as
sdf2; the EFI partition was sdf1; the unallocatd partition was sdf

How do I get SmartMonTools to run while in Ubuntu?

Thanks
Paul
2018-07-11 01:48:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
At this time, the iOS disk is in the SuperDrive. I can't get it out
Below the tray on mine, about 1.5" to 2" from the right hand
edge and just below the tray, you'll see a "paper clip hole".
Straight a stainless steel paper clip, to use as a pusher.
(Some of those hold their shape better.)
Place the end of the unraveled paper clip, into the hole.
Push on what is behind the hole. You should see some
movement of the tray.
Now, on mine, just below the paper clip hole, is a pearl
white plastic cover, which might house an activity LED.
I've never bothered to check whether that's working, as
a "tray cover" hides the drive in normal operation on
my G4.
The PC I'm sitting in front of, has the paper clip
hole in exactly the same relative location.
On some Macs, the trim around the drive tray can
hide the paper clip hole.
There are probably Macs that don't have the paper
clip hole. This is the recommended procedure...
This is done by restarting your Mac and holding down
the mouse button (or trackpad button if you have a laptop)
as the system boots. Hold it down until the system boots,
again the disk should come out.
But maybe that won't work, depending on what other
hardware is missing from the machine. The paper clip
method isn't "a lot of fun", but it is more mechanical
and doesn't rely on tricks.
*******
1) You've experienced an I/O error on the drive.
(Whereas my test got Permission Denied.)
While there might be a technical explanation for this
that doesn't involve hard drive damage, we don't
know at this point, what shape the drive is in.
2) You haven't evaluated the SMART stats yet.
(HDTune in Windows. SmartMonTools in Linux.)
Mounting a sick disk on a freshly installed Mac,
might give initial joy in the ability to see the
disk icon. But things could rapidly fall apart if
the OS can't actually read the drive. I don't
recommend either CHKDSK or Disk First Aid on
sick drives, as the outcomes are too varied
to take the risk.
If a drive is sick, you want to make a copy of
it first. Maybe clonezilla would work. I don't know.
But use something. And if it's a 500GB drive, verify
that the "thing" the backup program got is 500GB in
size. Proving that you have a snapshot of *everything*.
If a file handle is lost, the file clusters could
still be there. A "conventional" backup might not
capture the "recoverable" files sitting on the disk.
A "ddrescue" style copy, gets as much as possible.
And ddrescue doesn't care about partition types,
as all it does is hoover up sectors. It has a
very simple job to do.
Paul
Loaded Ubuntu 18.04.
I went here to get SmartMonTools for Linux, in particular, for Ubuntu 18.04
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/smartmontools
I clicked the amd64 file, and it took me to the download page for
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/amd64/smartmontools/download
If you are running Ubuntu, it is strongly suggested to use a package manager
like aptitude or synaptic to download and install packages, instead of doing
so manually via this website.
aptitude was a red link, so I clicked on it (even though I knew I had it
already because I'd used it in terminal mode sudo apt-get etc...); when I
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/aptitude
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/amd64/aptitude/download
If you are running Ubuntu, it is strongly suggested to use a package manager
like aptitude or synaptic to download and install packages, instead of doing
so manually via this website.
Dizzying, frustrating, PITA.
OK. I kind of remember the sudo apt-get command, so I launch Terminal.
I figure I'll install both gddrescue and smartmontools.
https://postimg.cc/image/y2cmrgm2j/
https://postimg.cc/image/6g9v6appn/
The only way I could close this window was to end the terminal command, so I
did.
https://www.thomas-
krenn.com/en/wiki/Analyzing_a_Faulty_Hard_Disk_using_Smartctl#SMART_Tests
I opened Terminal, and typed (I was pummelling the thing by now)
smartctl -a /dev/sdf2
(The Disks app in Ubuntu had previously identified the iOS partition 2 as
sdf2; the EFI partition was sdf1; the unallocatd partition was sdf
How do I get SmartMonTools to run while in Ubuntu?
Thanks
SmartMonTools has, as a feature, the ability to email you
if a disk is failing. That's what "PostFix" is for.

Just feed PostFix any old baloney. Hit OK or whatever.
Hit enough keys to finish the PostFix step and continue
with the SmartMonTools.

*******

These are some pictures of dealing with a LiveDVD of Ubuntu 18.04 x64.
Turning on the Universe and Multiverse repositories is the first step.
It even makes File Sharing, further in the pictures, work.

https://postimg.cc/gallery/1aecxj10c/

There are nine pictures total in the gallery.

Loading Image...

Loading Image...

Loading Image...

Loading Image...

Loading Image...

Loading Image...

Loading Image...

Loading Image...

Loading Image...

Paul
Boris
2018-07-12 04:55:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
At this time, the iOS disk is in the SuperDrive. I can't get it out
Below the tray on mine, about 1.5" to 2" from the right hand
edge and just below the tray, you'll see a "paper clip hole".
Straight a stainless steel paper clip, to use as a pusher.
(Some of those hold their shape better.)
Place the end of the unraveled paper clip, into the hole.
Push on what is behind the hole. You should see some
movement of the tray.
Now, on mine, just below the paper clip hole, is a pearl
white plastic cover, which might house an activity LED.
I've never bothered to check whether that's working, as
a "tray cover" hides the drive in normal operation on
my G4.
The PC I'm sitting in front of, has the paper clip
hole in exactly the same relative location.
On some Macs, the trim around the drive tray can
hide the paper clip hole.
There are probably Macs that don't have the paper
clip hole. This is the recommended procedure...
This is done by restarting your Mac and holding down
the mouse button (or trackpad button if you have a laptop)
as the system boots. Hold it down until the system boots,
again the disk should come out.
But maybe that won't work, depending on what other
hardware is missing from the machine. The paper clip
method isn't "a lot of fun", but it is more mechanical
and doesn't rely on tricks.
*******
1) You've experienced an I/O error on the drive.
(Whereas my test got Permission Denied.)
While there might be a technical explanation for this
that doesn't involve hard drive damage, we don't
know at this point, what shape the drive is in.
2) You haven't evaluated the SMART stats yet.
(HDTune in Windows. SmartMonTools in Linux.)
Mounting a sick disk on a freshly installed Mac,
might give initial joy in the ability to see the
disk icon. But things could rapidly fall apart if
the OS can't actually read the drive. I don't
recommend either CHKDSK or Disk First Aid on
sick drives, as the outcomes are too varied
to take the risk.
If a drive is sick, you want to make a copy of
it first. Maybe clonezilla would work. I don't know.
But use something. And if it's a 500GB drive, verify
that the "thing" the backup program got is 500GB in
size. Proving that you have a snapshot of *everything*.
If a file handle is lost, the file clusters could
still be there. A "conventional" backup might not
capture the "recoverable" files sitting on the disk.
A "ddrescue" style copy, gets as much as possible.
And ddrescue doesn't care about partition types,
as all it does is hoover up sectors. It has a
very simple job to do.
Paul
Loaded Ubuntu 18.04.
I went here to get SmartMonTools for Linux, in particular, for Ubuntu 18.04
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/smartmontools
I clicked the amd64 file, and it took me to the download page for
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/amd64/smartmontools/download
If you are running Ubuntu, it is strongly suggested to use a package manager
like aptitude or synaptic to download and install packages, instead of doing
so manually via this website.
aptitude was a red link, so I clicked on it (even though I knew I had it
already because I'd used it in terminal mode sudo apt-get etc...); when I
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/aptitude
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/amd64/aptitude/download
If you are running Ubuntu, it is strongly suggested to use a package manager
like aptitude or synaptic to download and install packages, instead of doing
so manually via this website.
Dizzying, frustrating, PITA.
OK. I kind of remember the sudo apt-get command, so I launch Terminal.
I figure I'll install both gddrescue and smartmontools.
https://postimg.cc/image/y2cmrgm2j/
https://postimg.cc/image/6g9v6appn/
The only way I could close this window was to end the terminal command, so I
did.
https://www.thomas-
krenn.com/en/wiki/Analyzing_a_Faulty_Hard_Disk_using_Smartctl#SMART_Tests
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
I opened Terminal, and typed (I was pummelling the thing by now)
smartctl -a /dev/sdf2
(The Disks app in Ubuntu had previously identified the iOS partition 2 as
sdf2; the EFI partition was sdf1; the unallocatd partition was sdf
How do I get SmartMonTools to run while in Ubuntu?
Thanks
SmartMonTools has, as a feature, the ability to email you
if a disk is failing. That's what "PostFix" is for.
Just feed PostFix any old baloney. Hit OK or whatever.
Hit enough keys to finish the PostFix step and continue
with the SmartMonTools.
*******
These are some pictures of dealing with a LiveDVD of Ubuntu 18.04 x64.
Turning on the Universe and Multiverse repositories is the first step.
It even makes File Sharing, further in the pictures, work.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/1aecxj10c/
There are nine pictures total in the gallery.
https://s33.postimg.cc/y8ux86hzf/01_repo_man.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/6y9m07x23/02_dash_launch_terminal.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/7b106f2h7/03_install_smartmontools.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/pqlh3tw17/04_neuter_postfix.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/aumxw7prf/05_gddrescue.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/80jsirvaz/06_gddrescue_continued.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/6li7u29nf/07_screen_blank_off.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/ahvjq2a2j/08
_share_screenshots_with_win_PC.gif
Post by Paul
https://s33.postimg.cc/jcwe0jguj/09_share_screenshots_continued.gif
Paul
Thanks for the instructions. I was able to update and then install
gddrescue and SmartMonTools yesteray night, and PostFix, but I had to
reboot back to Win7 late last night.

Back this morning and I figured I had to reinstall both packages, since
nothing is saved on the Live version. Also configured PostFix.

But, it seems that Disks recognizes the Mac hard drive partitioni 2 (iOS)
differently from time to time Today it recognized it as sdf2, while
yesterday it was sdb. I got a permissions error. Of course, I could be
approaching this incorrectly.

https://postimg.cc/image/453jdgqd7/7b9d689d/
Paul
2018-07-12 23:45:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
At this time, the iOS disk is in the SuperDrive. I can't get it out
Below the tray on mine, about 1.5" to 2" from the right hand
edge and just below the tray, you'll see a "paper clip hole".
Straight a stainless steel paper clip, to use as a pusher.
(Some of those hold their shape better.)
Place the end of the unraveled paper clip, into the hole.
Push on what is behind the hole. You should see some
movement of the tray.
Now, on mine, just below the paper clip hole, is a pearl
white plastic cover, which might house an activity LED.
I've never bothered to check whether that's working, as
a "tray cover" hides the drive in normal operation on
my G4.
The PC I'm sitting in front of, has the paper clip
hole in exactly the same relative location.
On some Macs, the trim around the drive tray can
hide the paper clip hole.
There are probably Macs that don't have the paper
clip hole. This is the recommended procedure...
This is done by restarting your Mac and holding down
the mouse button (or trackpad button if you have a laptop)
as the system boots. Hold it down until the system boots,
again the disk should come out.
But maybe that won't work, depending on what other
hardware is missing from the machine. The paper clip
method isn't "a lot of fun", but it is more mechanical
and doesn't rely on tricks.
*******
1) You've experienced an I/O error on the drive.
(Whereas my test got Permission Denied.)
While there might be a technical explanation for this
that doesn't involve hard drive damage, we don't
know at this point, what shape the drive is in.
2) You haven't evaluated the SMART stats yet.
(HDTune in Windows. SmartMonTools in Linux.)
Mounting a sick disk on a freshly installed Mac,
might give initial joy in the ability to see the
disk icon. But things could rapidly fall apart if
the OS can't actually read the drive. I don't
recommend either CHKDSK or Disk First Aid on
sick drives, as the outcomes are too varied
to take the risk.
If a drive is sick, you want to make a copy of
it first. Maybe clonezilla would work. I don't know.
But use something. And if it's a 500GB drive, verify
that the "thing" the backup program got is 500GB in
size. Proving that you have a snapshot of *everything*.
If a file handle is lost, the file clusters could
still be there. A "conventional" backup might not
capture the "recoverable" files sitting on the disk.
A "ddrescue" style copy, gets as much as possible.
And ddrescue doesn't care about partition types,
as all it does is hoover up sectors. It has a
very simple job to do.
Paul
Loaded Ubuntu 18.04.
I went here to get SmartMonTools for Linux, in particular, for Ubuntu
18.04
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/smartmontools
I clicked the amd64 file, and it took me to the download page for
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/amd64/smartmontools/download
If you are running Ubuntu, it is strongly suggested to use a package
manager
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
like aptitude or synaptic to download and install packages, instead of
doing
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
so manually via this website.
aptitude was a red link, so I clicked on it (even though I knew I had
it
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
already because I'd used it in terminal mode sudo apt-get etc...); when
I
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/aptitude
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/amd64/aptitude/download
If you are running Ubuntu, it is strongly suggested to use a package
manager
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
like aptitude or synaptic to download and install packages, instead of
doing
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
so manually via this website.
Dizzying, frustrating, PITA.
OK. I kind of remember the sudo apt-get command, so I launch Terminal.
I figure I'll install both gddrescue and smartmontools.
https://postimg.cc/image/y2cmrgm2j/
https://postimg.cc/image/6g9v6appn/
The only way I could close this window was to end the terminal command,
so I
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
did.
https://www.thomas-
krenn.com/en/wiki/Analyzing_a_Faulty_Hard_Disk_using_Smartctl#SMART_Tests
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
I opened Terminal, and typed (I was pummelling the thing by now)
smartctl -a /dev/sdf2
(The Disks app in Ubuntu had previously identified the iOS partition 2
as
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
sdf2; the EFI partition was sdf1; the unallocatd partition was sdf
How do I get SmartMonTools to run while in Ubuntu?
Thanks
SmartMonTools has, as a feature, the ability to email you
if a disk is failing. That's what "PostFix" is for.
Just feed PostFix any old baloney. Hit OK or whatever.
Hit enough keys to finish the PostFix step and continue
with the SmartMonTools.
*******
These are some pictures of dealing with a LiveDVD of Ubuntu 18.04 x64.
Turning on the Universe and Multiverse repositories is the first step.
It even makes File Sharing, further in the pictures, work.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/1aecxj10c/
There are nine pictures total in the gallery.
https://s33.postimg.cc/y8ux86hzf/01_repo_man.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/6y9m07x23/02_dash_launch_terminal.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/7b106f2h7/03_install_smartmontools.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/pqlh3tw17/04_neuter_postfix.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/aumxw7prf/05_gddrescue.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/80jsirvaz/06_gddrescue_continued.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/6li7u29nf/07_screen_blank_off.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/ahvjq2a2j/08
_share_screenshots_with_win_PC.gif
Post by Paul
https://s33.postimg.cc/jcwe0jguj/09_share_screenshots_continued.gif
Paul
Thanks for the instructions. I was able to update and then install
gddrescue and SmartMonTools yesteray night, and PostFix, but I had to
reboot back to Win7 late last night.
Back this morning and I figured I had to reinstall both packages, since
nothing is saved on the Live version. Also configured PostFix.
But, it seems that Disks recognizes the Mac hard drive partitioni 2 (iOS)
differently from time to time Today it recognized it as sdf2, while
yesterday it was sdb. I got a permissions error. Of course, I could be
approaching this incorrectly.
https://postimg.cc/image/453jdgqd7/7b9d689d/
Smartctl accesses hardware and needs root authority.

Place the word "sudo " as the first thing in front of
your smartctl command.

Paul
Boris
2018-07-13 18:28:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
At this time, the iOS disk is in the SuperDrive. I can't get it out
Below the tray on mine, about 1.5" to 2" from the right hand
edge and just below the tray, you'll see a "paper clip hole".
Straight a stainless steel paper clip, to use as a pusher.
(Some of those hold their shape better.)
Place the end of the unraveled paper clip, into the hole.
Push on what is behind the hole. You should see some
movement of the tray.
Now, on mine, just below the paper clip hole, is a pearl
white plastic cover, which might house an activity LED.
I've never bothered to check whether that's working, as
a "tray cover" hides the drive in normal operation on
my G4.
The PC I'm sitting in front of, has the paper clip
hole in exactly the same relative location.
On some Macs, the trim around the drive tray can
hide the paper clip hole.
There are probably Macs that don't have the paper
clip hole. This is the recommended procedure...
This is done by restarting your Mac and holding down
the mouse button (or trackpad button if you have a laptop)
as the system boots. Hold it down until the system boots,
again the disk should come out.
But maybe that won't work, depending on what other
hardware is missing from the machine. The paper clip
method isn't "a lot of fun", but it is more mechanical
and doesn't rely on tricks.
*******
1) You've experienced an I/O error on the drive.
(Whereas my test got Permission Denied.)
While there might be a technical explanation for this
that doesn't involve hard drive damage, we don't
know at this point, what shape the drive is in.
2) You haven't evaluated the SMART stats yet.
(HDTune in Windows. SmartMonTools in Linux.)
Mounting a sick disk on a freshly installed Mac,
might give initial joy in the ability to see the
disk icon. But things could rapidly fall apart if
the OS can't actually read the drive. I don't
recommend either CHKDSK or Disk First Aid on
sick drives, as the outcomes are too varied
to take the risk.
If a drive is sick, you want to make a copy of
it first. Maybe clonezilla would work. I don't know.
But use something. And if it's a 500GB drive, verify
that the "thing" the backup program got is 500GB in
size. Proving that you have a snapshot of *everything*.
If a file handle is lost, the file clusters could
still be there. A "conventional" backup might not
capture the "recoverable" files sitting on the disk.
A "ddrescue" style copy, gets as much as possible.
And ddrescue doesn't care about partition types,
as all it does is hoover up sectors. It has a
very simple job to do.
Paul
Loaded Ubuntu 18.04.
I went here to get SmartMonTools for Linux, in particular, for Ubuntu
18.04
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/smartmontools
I clicked the amd64 file, and it took me to the download page for
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/amd64/smartmontools/download
If you are running Ubuntu, it is strongly suggested to use a package
manager
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
like aptitude or synaptic to download and install packages, instead of
doing
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
so manually via this website.
aptitude was a red link, so I clicked on it (even though I knew I had
it
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
already because I'd used it in terminal mode sudo apt-get etc...); when
I
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/aptitude
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/amd64/aptitude/download
If you are running Ubuntu, it is strongly suggested to use a package
manager
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
like aptitude or synaptic to download and install packages, instead of
doing
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
so manually via this website.
Dizzying, frustrating, PITA.
OK. I kind of remember the sudo apt-get command, so I launch Terminal.
I figure I'll install both gddrescue and smartmontools.
https://postimg.cc/image/y2cmrgm2j/
https://postimg.cc/image/6g9v6appn/
The only way I could close this window was to end the terminal command,
so I
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
did.
https://www.thomas-
krenn.com/en/wiki/Analyzing_a_Faulty_Hard_Disk_using_Smartctl#SMART_Tests
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
I opened Terminal, and typed (I was pummelling the thing by now)
smartctl -a /dev/sdf2
(The Disks app in Ubuntu had previously identified the iOS partition 2
as
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
sdf2; the EFI partition was sdf1; the unallocatd partition was sdf
How do I get SmartMonTools to run while in Ubuntu?
Thanks
SmartMonTools has, as a feature, the ability to email you
if a disk is failing. That's what "PostFix" is for.
Just feed PostFix any old baloney. Hit OK or whatever.
Hit enough keys to finish the PostFix step and continue
with the SmartMonTools.
*******
These are some pictures of dealing with a LiveDVD of Ubuntu 18.04 x64.
Turning on the Universe and Multiverse repositories is the first step.
It even makes File Sharing, further in the pictures, work.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/1aecxj10c/
There are nine pictures total in the gallery.
https://s33.postimg.cc/y8ux86hzf/01_repo_man.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/6y9m07x23/02_dash_launch_terminal.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/7b106f2h7/03_install_smartmontools.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/pqlh3tw17/04_neuter_postfix.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/aumxw7prf/05_gddrescue.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/80jsirvaz/06_gddrescue_continued.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/6li7u29nf/07_screen_blank_off.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/ahvjq2a2j/08
_share_screenshots_with_win_PC.gif
Post by Paul
https://s33.postimg.cc/jcwe0jguj/09_share_screenshots_continued.gif
Paul
Thanks for the instructions. I was able to update and then install
gddrescue and SmartMonTools yesteray night, and PostFix, but I had to
reboot back to Win7 late last night.
Back this morning and I figured I had to reinstall both packages, since
nothing is saved on the Live version. Also configured PostFix.
But, it seems that Disks recognizes the Mac hard drive partitioni 2 (iOS)
differently from time to time Today it recognized it as sdf2, while
yesterday it was sdb. I got a permissions error. Of course, I could be
approaching this incorrectly.
https://postimg.cc/image/453jdgqd7/7b9d689d/
Smartctl accesses hardware and needs root authority.
Place the word "sudo " as the first thing in front of
your smartctl command.
Paul
Smartctl tells me that the Mac HD does not have SMART capability.

To be sure Smartctl was reporting correctly, I checked my Win7 OS drive.


https://postimg.cc/gallery/3b5pg9hss/
Paul
2018-07-14 02:30:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
At this time, the iOS disk is in the SuperDrive. I can't get it out
Below the tray on mine, about 1.5" to 2" from the right hand
edge and just below the tray, you'll see a "paper clip hole".
Straight a stainless steel paper clip, to use as a pusher.
(Some of those hold their shape better.)
Place the end of the unraveled paper clip, into the hole.
Push on what is behind the hole. You should see some
movement of the tray.
Now, on mine, just below the paper clip hole, is a pearl
white plastic cover, which might house an activity LED.
I've never bothered to check whether that's working, as
a "tray cover" hides the drive in normal operation on
my G4.
The PC I'm sitting in front of, has the paper clip
hole in exactly the same relative location.
On some Macs, the trim around the drive tray can
hide the paper clip hole.
There are probably Macs that don't have the paper
clip hole. This is the recommended procedure...
This is done by restarting your Mac and holding down
the mouse button (or trackpad button if you have a laptop)
as the system boots. Hold it down until the system boots,
again the disk should come out.
But maybe that won't work, depending on what other
hardware is missing from the machine. The paper clip
method isn't "a lot of fun", but it is more mechanical
and doesn't rely on tricks.
*******
1) You've experienced an I/O error on the drive.
(Whereas my test got Permission Denied.)
While there might be a technical explanation for this
that doesn't involve hard drive damage, we don't
know at this point, what shape the drive is in.
2) You haven't evaluated the SMART stats yet.
(HDTune in Windows. SmartMonTools in Linux.)
Mounting a sick disk on a freshly installed Mac,
might give initial joy in the ability to see the
disk icon. But things could rapidly fall apart if
the OS can't actually read the drive. I don't
recommend either CHKDSK or Disk First Aid on
sick drives, as the outcomes are too varied
to take the risk.
If a drive is sick, you want to make a copy of
it first. Maybe clonezilla would work. I don't know.
But use something. And if it's a 500GB drive, verify
that the "thing" the backup program got is 500GB in
size. Proving that you have a snapshot of *everything*.
If a file handle is lost, the file clusters could
still be there. A "conventional" backup might not
capture the "recoverable" files sitting on the disk.
A "ddrescue" style copy, gets as much as possible.
And ddrescue doesn't care about partition types,
as all it does is hoover up sectors. It has a
very simple job to do.
Paul
Loaded Ubuntu 18.04.
I went here to get SmartMonTools for Linux, in particular, for Ubuntu
18.04
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/smartmontools
I clicked the amd64 file, and it took me to the download page for
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/amd64/smartmontools/download
If you are running Ubuntu, it is strongly suggested to use a package
manager
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
like aptitude or synaptic to download and install packages, instead of
doing
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
so manually via this website.
aptitude was a red link, so I clicked on it (even though I knew I had
it
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
already because I'd used it in terminal mode sudo apt-get etc...); when
I
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/aptitude
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/amd64/aptitude/download
If you are running Ubuntu, it is strongly suggested to use a package
manager
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
like aptitude or synaptic to download and install packages, instead of
doing
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
so manually via this website.
Dizzying, frustrating, PITA.
OK. I kind of remember the sudo apt-get command, so I launch Terminal.
I figure I'll install both gddrescue and smartmontools.
https://postimg.cc/image/y2cmrgm2j/
https://postimg.cc/image/6g9v6appn/
The only way I could close this window was to end the terminal command,
so I
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
did.
https://www.thomas-
krenn.com/en/wiki/Analyzing_a_Faulty_Hard_Disk_using_Smartctl#SMART_Tests
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
I opened Terminal, and typed (I was pummelling the thing by now)
smartctl -a /dev/sdf2
(The Disks app in Ubuntu had previously identified the iOS partition 2
as
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
sdf2; the EFI partition was sdf1; the unallocatd partition was sdf
How do I get SmartMonTools to run while in Ubuntu?
Thanks
SmartMonTools has, as a feature, the ability to email you
if a disk is failing. That's what "PostFix" is for.
Just feed PostFix any old baloney. Hit OK or whatever.
Hit enough keys to finish the PostFix step and continue
with the SmartMonTools.
*******
These are some pictures of dealing with a LiveDVD of Ubuntu 18.04 x64.
Turning on the Universe and Multiverse repositories is the first step.
It even makes File Sharing, further in the pictures, work.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/1aecxj10c/
There are nine pictures total in the gallery.
https://s33.postimg.cc/y8ux86hzf/01_repo_man.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/6y9m07x23/02_dash_launch_terminal.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/7b106f2h7/03_install_smartmontools.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/pqlh3tw17/04_neuter_postfix.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/aumxw7prf/05_gddrescue.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/80jsirvaz/06_gddrescue_continued.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/6li7u29nf/07_screen_blank_off.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/ahvjq2a2j/08
_share_screenshots_with_win_PC.gif
Post by Paul
https://s33.postimg.cc/jcwe0jguj/09_share_screenshots_continued.gif
Paul
Thanks for the instructions. I was able to update and then install
gddrescue and SmartMonTools yesteray night, and PostFix, but I had to
reboot back to Win7 late last night.
Back this morning and I figured I had to reinstall both packages, since
nothing is saved on the Live version. Also configured PostFix.
But, it seems that Disks recognizes the Mac hard drive partitioni 2 (iOS)
differently from time to time Today it recognized it as sdf2, while
yesterday it was sdb. I got a permissions error. Of course, I could be
approaching this incorrectly.
https://postimg.cc/image/453jdgqd7/7b9d689d/
Smartctl accesses hardware and needs root authority.
Place the word "sudo " as the first thing in front of
your smartctl command.
Paul
Smartctl tells me that the Mac HD does not have SMART capability.
To be sure Smartctl was reporting correctly, I checked my Win7 OS drive.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/3b5pg9hss/
It should be smartctl and /dev/sda or /dev/sdf.

You don't put the numbers on the end, when specifying
"the whole device".

/dev/sda whole disk <=== SMART
/dev/sda1 first partition on disk
/dev/sda2 second partition on disk

When you're working on a partition, such as formatting
the partition, then you want the number on the
end, so the wrong partition(s) don't get splattered.

sudo mkfs.ext4 /dev/sda2 # when formatting, specify the exact partition

Sometimes the manual page for a command has working
examples at the bottom of the page, but... not in this case.

https://linux.die.net/man/8/mkfs.ntfs

HTH,
Paul
Boris
2018-07-14 19:43:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
At this time, the iOS disk is in the SuperDrive. I can't get it out
Below the tray on mine, about 1.5" to 2" from the right hand
edge and just below the tray, you'll see a "paper clip hole".
Straight a stainless steel paper clip, to use as a pusher.
(Some of those hold their shape better.)
Place the end of the unraveled paper clip, into the hole.
Push on what is behind the hole. You should see some
movement of the tray.
Now, on mine, just below the paper clip hole, is a pearl
white plastic cover, which might house an activity LED.
I've never bothered to check whether that's working, as
a "tray cover" hides the drive in normal operation on
my G4.
The PC I'm sitting in front of, has the paper clip
hole in exactly the same relative location.
On some Macs, the trim around the drive tray can
hide the paper clip hole.
There are probably Macs that don't have the paper
clip hole. This is the recommended procedure...
This is done by restarting your Mac and holding down
the mouse button (or trackpad button if you have a laptop)
as the system boots. Hold it down until the system boots,
again the disk should come out.
But maybe that won't work, depending on what other
hardware is missing from the machine. The paper clip
method isn't "a lot of fun", but it is more mechanical
and doesn't rely on tricks.
*******
1) You've experienced an I/O error on the drive.
(Whereas my test got Permission Denied.)
While there might be a technical explanation for this
that doesn't involve hard drive damage, we don't
know at this point, what shape the drive is in.
2) You haven't evaluated the SMART stats yet.
(HDTune in Windows. SmartMonTools in Linux.)
Mounting a sick disk on a freshly installed Mac,
might give initial joy in the ability to see the
disk icon. But things could rapidly fall apart if
the OS can't actually read the drive. I don't
recommend either CHKDSK or Disk First Aid on
sick drives, as the outcomes are too varied
to take the risk.
If a drive is sick, you want to make a copy of
it first. Maybe clonezilla would work. I don't know.
But use something. And if it's a 500GB drive, verify
that the "thing" the backup program got is 500GB in
size. Proving that you have a snapshot of *everything*.
If a file handle is lost, the file clusters could
still be there. A "conventional" backup might not
capture the "recoverable" files sitting on the disk.
A "ddrescue" style copy, gets as much as possible.
And ddrescue doesn't care about partition types,
as all it does is hoover up sectors. It has a
very simple job to do.
Paul
Loaded Ubuntu 18.04.
I went here to get SmartMonTools for Linux, in particular, for Ubuntu
18.04
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/smartmontools
I clicked the amd64 file, and it took me to the download page for
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/amd64/smartmontools/download
If you are running Ubuntu, it is strongly suggested to use a package
manager
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
like aptitude or synaptic to download and install packages, instead of
doing
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
so manually via this website.
aptitude was a red link, so I clicked on it (even though I knew I had
it
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
already because I'd used it in terminal mode sudo apt-get etc...); when
I
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/aptitude
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/amd64/aptitude/download
If you are running Ubuntu, it is strongly suggested to use a package
manager
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
like aptitude or synaptic to download and install packages, instead of
doing
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
so manually via this website.
Dizzying, frustrating, PITA.
OK. I kind of remember the sudo apt-get command, so I launch Terminal.
I figure I'll install both gddrescue and smartmontools.
https://postimg.cc/image/y2cmrgm2j/
https://postimg.cc/image/6g9v6appn/
The only way I could close this window was to end the terminal command,
so I
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
did.
https://www.thomas-
krenn.com/en/wiki/Analyzing_a_Faulty_Hard_Disk_using_Smartctl#SMART_Tests
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
I opened Terminal, and typed (I was pummelling the thing by now)
smartctl -a /dev/sdf2
(The Disks app in Ubuntu had previously identified the iOS partition 2
as
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
sdf2; the EFI partition was sdf1; the unallocatd partition was sdf
How do I get SmartMonTools to run while in Ubuntu?
Thanks
SmartMonTools has, as a feature, the ability to email you
if a disk is failing. That's what "PostFix" is for.
Just feed PostFix any old baloney. Hit OK or whatever.
Hit enough keys to finish the PostFix step and continue
with the SmartMonTools.
*******
These are some pictures of dealing with a LiveDVD of Ubuntu 18.04 x64.
Turning on the Universe and Multiverse repositories is the first step.
It even makes File Sharing, further in the pictures, work.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/1aecxj10c/
There are nine pictures total in the gallery.
https://s33.postimg.cc/y8ux86hzf/01_repo_man.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/6y9m07x23/02_dash_launch_terminal.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/7b106f2h7/03_install_smartmontools.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/pqlh3tw17/04_neuter_postfix.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/aumxw7prf/05_gddrescue.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/80jsirvaz/06_gddrescue_continued.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/6li7u29nf/07_screen_blank_off.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/ahvjq2a2j/08
_share_screenshots_with_win_PC.gif
Post by Paul
https://s33.postimg.cc/jcwe0jguj/09
_share_screenshots_continued.gif
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Paul
Thanks for the instructions. I was able to update and then install
gddrescue and SmartMonTools yesteray night, and PostFix, but I had to
reboot back to Win7 late last night.
Back this morning and I figured I had to reinstall both packages, since
nothing is saved on the Live version. Also configured PostFix.
But, it seems that Disks recognizes the Mac hard drive partitioni 2 (iOS)
differently from time to time Today it recognized it as sdf2, while
yesterday it was sdb. I got a permissions error. Of course, I could be
approaching this incorrectly.
https://postimg.cc/image/453jdgqd7/7b9d689d/
Smartctl accesses hardware and needs root authority.
Place the word "sudo " as the first thing in front of
your smartctl command.
Paul
Smartctl tells me that the Mac HD does not have SMART capability.
To be sure Smartctl was reporting correctly, I checked my Win7 OS drive.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/3b5pg9hss/
It should be smartctl and /dev/sda or /dev/sdf.
You don't put the numbers on the end, when specifying
"the whole device".
/dev/sda whole disk <=== SMART
/dev/sda1 first partition on disk
/dev/sda2 second partition on disk
When you're working on a partition, such as formatting
the partition, then you want the number on the
end, so the wrong partition(s) don't get splattered.
sudo mkfs.ext4 /dev/sda2 # when formatting, specify the exact partition
Sometimes the manual page for a command has working
examples at the bottom of the page, but... not in this case.
https://linux.die.net/man/8/mkfs.ntfs
HTH,
Paul
Ubuntu 18.04 'Disks' app shows the Mac HD with three partitions, an EFI, a
data, and an unallocated. But seems that smartctl doesn't have this Mac
HD in it's database

https://postimg.cc/image/r1j6biliz/

or smartctl doesn't like that the Mac HD is connected via USB, per
article:

https://askubuntu.com/questions/637450/cannot-perform-smart-data-and-self-
test-on-external-hard-drive/637465

Perhaps I should connect directly to motherboard, but not sure if this
would make a difference. I doubt it's a USB issue because all other
external HDs are being reported fine with smartctl.

Regardless of what smartctl eventually? reports, I think what really
matters is imaaging with gddrescue.

I've bitten off more than I can (currently) chew.
Paul
2018-07-14 22:13:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
At this time, the iOS disk is in the SuperDrive. I can't get it
out
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Below the tray on mine, about 1.5" to 2" from the right hand
edge and just below the tray, you'll see a "paper clip hole".
Straight a stainless steel paper clip, to use as a pusher.
(Some of those hold their shape better.)
Place the end of the unraveled paper clip, into the hole.
Push on what is behind the hole. You should see some
movement of the tray.
Now, on mine, just below the paper clip hole, is a pearl
white plastic cover, which might house an activity LED.
I've never bothered to check whether that's working, as
a "tray cover" hides the drive in normal operation on
my G4.
The PC I'm sitting in front of, has the paper clip
hole in exactly the same relative location.
On some Macs, the trim around the drive tray can
hide the paper clip hole.
There are probably Macs that don't have the paper
clip hole. This is the recommended procedure...
This is done by restarting your Mac and holding down
the mouse button (or trackpad button if you have a laptop)
as the system boots. Hold it down until the system boots,
again the disk should come out.
But maybe that won't work, depending on what other
hardware is missing from the machine. The paper clip
method isn't "a lot of fun", but it is more mechanical
and doesn't rely on tricks.
*******
1) You've experienced an I/O error on the drive.
(Whereas my test got Permission Denied.)
While there might be a technical explanation for this
that doesn't involve hard drive damage, we don't
know at this point, what shape the drive is in.
2) You haven't evaluated the SMART stats yet.
(HDTune in Windows. SmartMonTools in Linux.)
Mounting a sick disk on a freshly installed Mac,
might give initial joy in the ability to see the
disk icon. But things could rapidly fall apart if
the OS can't actually read the drive. I don't
recommend either CHKDSK or Disk First Aid on
sick drives, as the outcomes are too varied
to take the risk.
If a drive is sick, you want to make a copy of
it first. Maybe clonezilla would work. I don't know.
But use something. And if it's a 500GB drive, verify
that the "thing" the backup program got is 500GB in
size. Proving that you have a snapshot of *everything*.
If a file handle is lost, the file clusters could
still be there. A "conventional" backup might not
capture the "recoverable" files sitting on the disk.
A "ddrescue" style copy, gets as much as possible.
And ddrescue doesn't care about partition types,
as all it does is hoover up sectors. It has a
very simple job to do.
Paul
Loaded Ubuntu 18.04.
I went here to get SmartMonTools for Linux, in particular, for
Ubuntu
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
18.04
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/smartmontools
I clicked the amd64 file, and it took me to the download page for
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/amd64/smartmontools/download
If you are running Ubuntu, it is strongly suggested to use a
package
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
manager
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
like aptitude or synaptic to download and install packages, instead
of
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
doing
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
so manually via this website.
aptitude was a red link, so I clicked on it (even though I knew I
had
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
it
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
already because I'd used it in terminal mode sudo apt-get etc...);
when
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
I
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/aptitude
I clicked the amd64 file, which took me the download page for
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/amd64/aptitude/download
If you are running Ubuntu, it is strongly suggested to use a
package
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
manager
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
like aptitude or synaptic to download and install packages, instead
of
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
doing
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
so manually via this website.
Dizzying, frustrating, PITA.
OK. I kind of remember the sudo apt-get command, so I launch
Terminal.
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
I figure I'll install both gddrescue and smartmontools.
https://postimg.cc/image/y2cmrgm2j/
https://postimg.cc/image/6g9v6appn/
The only way I could close this window was to end the terminal
command,
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
so I
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
did.
https://www.thomas-
krenn.com/en/wiki/Analyzing_a_Faulty_Hard_Disk_using_Smartctl#SMART_Tests
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
I opened Terminal, and typed (I was pummelling the thing by now)
smartctl -a /dev/sdf2
(The Disks app in Ubuntu had previously identified the iOS
partition 2
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
as
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
sdf2; the EFI partition was sdf1; the unallocatd partition was sdf
How do I get SmartMonTools to run while in Ubuntu?
Thanks
SmartMonTools has, as a feature, the ability to email you
if a disk is failing. That's what "PostFix" is for.
Just feed PostFix any old baloney. Hit OK or whatever.
Hit enough keys to finish the PostFix step and continue
with the SmartMonTools.
*******
These are some pictures of dealing with a LiveDVD of Ubuntu 18.04
x64.
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Turning on the Universe and Multiverse repositories is the first
step.
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
It even makes File Sharing, further in the pictures, work.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/1aecxj10c/
There are nine pictures total in the gallery.
https://s33.postimg.cc/y8ux86hzf/01_repo_man.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/6y9m07x23/02_dash_launch_terminal.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/7b106f2h7/03_install_smartmontools.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/pqlh3tw17/04_neuter_postfix.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/aumxw7prf/05_gddrescue.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/80jsirvaz/06_gddrescue_continued.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/6li7u29nf/07_screen_blank_off.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/ahvjq2a2j/08
_share_screenshots_with_win_PC.gif
Post by Paul
https://s33.postimg.cc/jcwe0jguj/09
_share_screenshots_continued.gif
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Paul
Thanks for the instructions. I was able to update and then install
gddrescue and SmartMonTools yesteray night, and PostFix, but I had to
reboot back to Win7 late last night.
Back this morning and I figured I had to reinstall both packages,
since
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
nothing is saved on the Live version. Also configured PostFix.
But, it seems that Disks recognizes the Mac hard drive partitioni 2
(iOS)
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
differently from time to time Today it recognized it as sdf2, while
yesterday it was sdb. I got a permissions error. Of course, I could
be
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
approaching this incorrectly.
https://postimg.cc/image/453jdgqd7/7b9d689d/
Smartctl accesses hardware and needs root authority.
Place the word "sudo " as the first thing in front of
your smartctl command.
Paul
Smartctl tells me that the Mac HD does not have SMART capability.
To be sure Smartctl was reporting correctly, I checked my Win7 OS
drive.
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
https://postimg.cc/gallery/3b5pg9hss/
It should be smartctl and /dev/sda or /dev/sdf.
You don't put the numbers on the end, when specifying
"the whole device".
/dev/sda whole disk <=== SMART
/dev/sda1 first partition on disk
/dev/sda2 second partition on disk
When you're working on a partition, such as formatting
the partition, then you want the number on the
end, so the wrong partition(s) don't get splattered.
sudo mkfs.ext4 /dev/sda2 # when formatting, specify the exact
partition
Post by Paul
Sometimes the manual page for a command has working
examples at the bottom of the page, but... not in this case.
https://linux.die.net/man/8/mkfs.ntfs
HTH,
Paul
Ubuntu 18.04 'Disks' app shows the Mac HD with three partitions, an EFI, a
data, and an unallocated. But seems that smartctl doesn't have this Mac
HD in it's database
https://postimg.cc/image/r1j6biliz/
or smartctl doesn't like that the Mac HD is connected via USB, per
https://askubuntu.com/questions/637450/cannot-perform-smart-data-and-self-
test-on-external-hard-drive/637465
Perhaps I should connect directly to motherboard, but not sure if this
would make a difference. I doubt it's a USB issue because all other
external HDs are being reported fine with smartctl.
Regardless of what smartctl eventually? reports, I think what really
matters is imaaging with gddrescue.
I've bitten off more than I can (currently) chew.
Absolutely, connecting a hard drive via SATA makes a difference!

The SMART interface is an ATA feature. IDE and SATA follow ATA.
The motherboard ports are excellent for this work.

A kind of drive that doesn't have SMART, is SCSI. But I don't
know if that situation ever changed or not.

USB follows USB Mass Storage, and I don't recollect right
off hand, any "passthru" or "tunneling" interface to
do SMART work via USB.

You do need to be on a SATA port, to get the SATA drive
SMART info. That has the highest probability of working.

And initially, you want the table of numbers (so you
can see Current Pending or Reallocated raw data field
value). As well as the "Health" field that smartctl
offers above that table somewhere. Usually that
value is a joke, in that compromised drives can
show as "Healthy", even when they're not. If
the health summary said "Failing", then you'd know
the drive was actually in serious trouble.

Paul
Boris
2018-07-23 00:04:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by Paul
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
At this time, the iOS disk is in the SuperDrive. I can't get it
out
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Below the tray on mine, about 1.5" to 2" from the right hand
edge and just below the tray, you'll see a "paper clip hole".
Straight a stainless steel paper clip, to use as a pusher.
(Some of those hold their shape better.)
Place the end of the unraveled paper clip, into the hole.
Push on what is behind the hole. You should see some
movement of the tray.
Now, on mine, just below the paper clip hole, is a pearl
white plastic cover, which might house an activity LED.
I've never bothered to check whether that's working, as
a "tray cover" hides the drive in normal operation on
my G4.
The PC I'm sitting in front of, has the paper clip
hole in exactly the same relative location.
On some Macs, the trim around the drive tray can
hide the paper clip hole.
There are probably Macs that don't have the paper
clip hole. This is the recommended procedure...
This is done by restarting your Mac and holding down
the mouse button (or trackpad button if you have a laptop)
as the system boots. Hold it down until the system boots,
again the disk should come out.
But maybe that won't work, depending on what other
hardware is missing from the machine. The paper clip
method isn't "a lot of fun", but it is more mechanical
and doesn't rely on tricks.
*******
1) You've experienced an I/O error on the drive.
(Whereas my test got Permission Denied.)
While there might be a technical explanation for this
that doesn't involve hard drive damage, we don't
know at this point, what shape the drive is in.
2) You haven't evaluated the SMART stats yet.
(HDTune in Windows. SmartMonTools in Linux.)
Mounting a sick disk on a freshly installed Mac,
might give initial joy in the ability to see the
disk icon. But things could rapidly fall apart if
the OS can't actually read the drive. I don't
recommend either CHKDSK or Disk First Aid on
sick drives, as the outcomes are too varied
to take the risk.
If a drive is sick, you want to make a copy of
it first. Maybe clonezilla would work. I don't know.
But use something. And if it's a 500GB drive, verify
that the "thing" the backup program got is 500GB in
size. Proving that you have a snapshot of *everything*.
If a file handle is lost, the file clusters could
still be there. A "conventional" backup might not
capture the "recoverable" files sitting on the disk.
A "ddrescue" style copy, gets as much as possible.
And ddrescue doesn't care about partition types,
as all it does is hoover up sectors. It has a
very simple job to do.
Paul
Loaded Ubuntu 18.04.
I went here to get SmartMonTools for Linux, in particular, for
Ubuntu
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
18.04
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/smartmontools
I clicked the amd64 file, and it took me to the download page for
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/amd64/smartmontools/download
If you are running Ubuntu, it is strongly suggested to use a
package
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
manager
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
like aptitude or synaptic to download and install packages, instead
of
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
doing
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
so manually via this website.
aptitude was a red link, so I clicked on it (even though I knew I
had
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
it
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
already because I'd used it in terminal mode sudo apt-get etc...);
when
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
I
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/aptitude
I clicked the amd64 file, which took me the download page for
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/amd64/aptitude/download
If you are running Ubuntu, it is strongly suggested to use a
package
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
manager
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
like aptitude or synaptic to download and install packages, instead
of
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
doing
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
so manually via this website.
Dizzying, frustrating, PITA.
OK. I kind of remember the sudo apt-get command, so I launch
Terminal.
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
I figure I'll install both gddrescue and smartmontools.
https://postimg.cc/image/y2cmrgm2j/
https://postimg.cc/image/6g9v6appn/
The only way I could close this window was to end the terminal
command,
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
so I
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
did.
https://www.thomas-
krenn.com/en/wiki/Analyzing_a_Faulty_Hard_Disk_using_Smartctl#SMART_Tests
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
I opened Terminal, and typed (I was pummelling the thing by now)
smartctl -a /dev/sdf2
(The Disks app in Ubuntu had previously identified the iOS
partition 2
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
as
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
sdf2; the EFI partition was sdf1; the unallocatd partition was sdf
How do I get SmartMonTools to run while in Ubuntu?
Thanks
SmartMonTools has, as a feature, the ability to email you
if a disk is failing. That's what "PostFix" is for.
Just feed PostFix any old baloney. Hit OK or whatever.
Hit enough keys to finish the PostFix step and continue
with the SmartMonTools.
*******
These are some pictures of dealing with a LiveDVD of Ubuntu 18.04
x64.
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Turning on the Universe and Multiverse repositories is the first
step.
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
It even makes File Sharing, further in the pictures, work.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/1aecxj10c/
There are nine pictures total in the gallery.
https://s33.postimg.cc/y8ux86hzf/01_repo_man.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/6y9m07x23/02_dash_launch_terminal.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/7b106f2h7/03_install_smartmontools.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/pqlh3tw17/04_neuter_postfix.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/aumxw7prf/05_gddrescue.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/80jsirvaz/06_gddrescue_continued.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/6li7u29nf/07_screen_blank_off.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/ahvjq2a2j/08
_share_screenshots_with_win_PC.gif
Post by Paul
https://s33.postimg.cc/jcwe0jguj/09
_share_screenshots_continued.gif
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Paul
Thanks for the instructions. I was able to update and then install
gddrescue and SmartMonTools yesteray night, and PostFix, but I had to
reboot back to Win7 late last night.
Back this morning and I figured I had to reinstall both packages,
since
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
nothing is saved on the Live version. Also configured PostFix.
But, it seems that Disks recognizes the Mac hard drive partitioni 2
(iOS)
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
differently from time to time Today it recognized it as sdf2, while
yesterday it was sdb. I got a permissions error. Of course, I could
be
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
approaching this incorrectly.
https://postimg.cc/image/453jdgqd7/7b9d689d/
Smartctl accesses hardware and needs root authority.
Place the word "sudo " as the first thing in front of
your smartctl command.
Paul
Smartctl tells me that the Mac HD does not have SMART capability.
To be sure Smartctl was reporting correctly, I checked my Win7 OS
drive.
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
https://postimg.cc/gallery/3b5pg9hss/
It should be smartctl and /dev/sda or /dev/sdf.
You don't put the numbers on the end, when specifying
"the whole device".
/dev/sda whole disk <=== SMART
/dev/sda1 first partition on disk
/dev/sda2 second partition on disk
When you're working on a partition, such as formatting
the partition, then you want the number on the
end, so the wrong partition(s) don't get splattered.
sudo mkfs.ext4 /dev/sda2 # when formatting, specify the exact
partition
Post by Paul
Sometimes the manual page for a command has working
examples at the bottom of the page, but... not in this case.
https://linux.die.net/man/8/mkfs.ntfs
HTH,
Paul
Ubuntu 18.04 'Disks' app shows the Mac HD with three partitions, an EFI, a
data, and an unallocated. But seems that smartctl doesn't have this Mac
HD in it's database
https://postimg.cc/image/r1j6biliz/
or smartctl doesn't like that the Mac HD is connected via USB, per
https://askubuntu.com/questions/637450/cannot-perform-smart-data-and-self-
test-on-external-hard-drive/637465
Perhaps I should connect directly to motherboard, but not sure if this
would make a difference. I doubt it's a USB issue because all other
external HDs are being reported fine with smartctl.
Regardless of what smartctl eventually? reports, I think what really
matters is imaaging with gddrescue.
I've bitten off more than I can (currently) chew.
Absolutely, connecting a hard drive via SATA makes a difference!
The SMART interface is an ATA feature. IDE and SATA follow ATA.
The motherboard ports are excellent for this work.
A kind of drive that doesn't have SMART, is SCSI. But I don't
know if that situation ever changed or not.
USB follows USB Mass Storage, and I don't recollect right
off hand, any "passthru" or "tunneling" interface to
do SMART work via USB.
You do need to be on a SATA port, to get the SATA drive
SMART info. That has the highest probability of working.
And initially, you want the table of numbers (so you
can see Current Pending or Reallocated raw data field
value). As well as the "Health" field that smartctl
offers above that table somewhere. Usually that
value is a joke, in that compromised drives can
show as "Healthy", even when they're not. If
the health summary said "Failing", then you'd know
the drive was actually in serious trouble.
Paul
Finally got down behind desk and cracked opened pc, connected MAC HD directly
to motherboard SATA port, and loaded Win7 first. (Drive would not slide into
bay because it had two permanent 2-3mm pegs on one side of the drive sticking
out, that couldn't be removed, but power and data cables were long enough to
connect, leaving drive outside of pc case, resting on floor.) I was now
curious to see how Windows would report this MAC HD.

Normally, when doing a cold boot, I never see a POST. Not that it goes by
fast, just that it never appears on screen. There doesn't seem to be a
setting to enable this to appear on my screen.

This time, with the MAC HD connected to SATA 2, the first POST notice to
appear showd a SMART Event for the MAC HD, ST3500418ASQ. Pressing CTRL-I
gets to RAID setup. I didn't go there.

After a few seconds, the next POST screen automatically appeared showing AHCI
Port1 Device Error
Press F2 to Resume

I pressed F2 and got thrown into the CMOS, but escaped out and Windows
loaded. Windows said ST3500418ASQ was installed, but kept "searching
preconfigured driver folders". After about five minutes, I closed that
window.

Device manager told me that ST3500418ASQ was working properly, and Disk
Manager told me that I had to initialize the MAC disk (disk1) before Disk
Manager could access it.

Here's some screen shots of the above:

https://postimg.cc/gallery/lvvmu73w/


I rebooted to Ubuntu 18.04 Live. Ubuntu Live loaded normally. I launched
Disks, but the MAC HD did not show up. I remembered that when the MAC HD was
tethered via USB, the drive would only show up in Ubuntu if the drive was
powered up after launching Disks. Since the MAC HD was connected directly to
the motherboard (power and data), I didn't want to disconnect power and
reconnect it. Instead, I disconnected data and reconnected. Disks now
recognized the MAC HD, and said "Disk is likely to fail soon".

https://postimg.cc/image/mukn27m8r/


Anyway......here's a cut and paste of just the first part of what SmartCtl
reported:

***@ubuntu:~$ sudo smartctl --all /dev/sdg --test=short -T permissive
smartctl 6.6 2016-05-31 r4324 [x86_64-linux-4.15.0-20-generic] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-16, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Device Model: ST3500418ASQ
Serial Number: 9VMF20R6
LU WWN Device Id: 5 000c50 0207370c3
Firmware Version: AP24
User Capacity: 500,107,862,016 bytes [500 GB]
Sector Size: 512 bytes logical/physical
Rotation Rate: 7200 rpm
Device is: Not in smartctl database [for details use: -P showall]
ATA Version is: ATA8-ACS T13/1699-D revision 4
SATA Version is: SATA 2.6, 3.0 Gb/s
Local Time is: Sun Jul 22 19:37:10 2018 UTC
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: FAILED!
Drive failure expected in less than 24 hours. SAVE ALL DATA.
See vendor-specific Attribute list for failed Attributes.

Boris
Paul
2018-07-23 03:12:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Paul
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
At this time, the iOS disk is in the SuperDrive. I can't get it
out
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Below the tray on mine, about 1.5" to 2" from the right hand
edge and just below the tray, you'll see a "paper clip hole".
Straight a stainless steel paper clip, to use as a pusher.
(Some of those hold their shape better.)
Place the end of the unraveled paper clip, into the hole.
Push on what is behind the hole. You should see some
movement of the tray.
Now, on mine, just below the paper clip hole, is a pearl
white plastic cover, which might house an activity LED.
I've never bothered to check whether that's working, as
a "tray cover" hides the drive in normal operation on
my G4.
The PC I'm sitting in front of, has the paper clip
hole in exactly the same relative location.
On some Macs, the trim around the drive tray can
hide the paper clip hole.
There are probably Macs that don't have the paper
clip hole. This is the recommended procedure...
This is done by restarting your Mac and holding down
the mouse button (or trackpad button if you have a laptop)
as the system boots. Hold it down until the system boots,
again the disk should come out.
But maybe that won't work, depending on what other
hardware is missing from the machine. The paper clip
method isn't "a lot of fun", but it is more mechanical
and doesn't rely on tricks.
*******
1) You've experienced an I/O error on the drive.
(Whereas my test got Permission Denied.)
While there might be a technical explanation for this
that doesn't involve hard drive damage, we don't
know at this point, what shape the drive is in.
2) You haven't evaluated the SMART stats yet.
(HDTune in Windows. SmartMonTools in Linux.)
Mounting a sick disk on a freshly installed Mac,
might give initial joy in the ability to see the
disk icon. But things could rapidly fall apart if
the OS can't actually read the drive. I don't
recommend either CHKDSK or Disk First Aid on
sick drives, as the outcomes are too varied
to take the risk.
If a drive is sick, you want to make a copy of
it first. Maybe clonezilla would work. I don't know.
But use something. And if it's a 500GB drive, verify
that the "thing" the backup program got is 500GB in
size. Proving that you have a snapshot of *everything*.
If a file handle is lost, the file clusters could
still be there. A "conventional" backup might not
capture the "recoverable" files sitting on the disk.
A "ddrescue" style copy, gets as much as possible.
And ddrescue doesn't care about partition types,
as all it does is hoover up sectors. It has a
very simple job to do.
Paul
Loaded Ubuntu 18.04.
I went here to get SmartMonTools for Linux, in particular, for
Ubuntu
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
18.04
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/smartmontools
I clicked the amd64 file, and it took me to the download page for
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/amd64/smartmontools/download
If you are running Ubuntu, it is strongly suggested to use a
package
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
manager
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
like aptitude or synaptic to download and install packages, instead
of
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
doing
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
so manually via this website.
aptitude was a red link, so I clicked on it (even though I knew I
had
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
it
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
already because I'd used it in terminal mode sudo apt-get etc...);
when
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
I
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/aptitude
I clicked the amd64 file, which took me the download page for
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/amd64/aptitude/download
If you are running Ubuntu, it is strongly suggested to use a
package
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
manager
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
like aptitude or synaptic to download and install packages, instead
of
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
doing
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
so manually via this website.
Dizzying, frustrating, PITA.
OK. I kind of remember the sudo apt-get command, so I launch
Terminal.
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
I figure I'll install both gddrescue and smartmontools.
https://postimg.cc/image/y2cmrgm2j/
https://postimg.cc/image/6g9v6appn/
The only way I could close this window was to end the terminal
command,
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
so I
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
did.
https://www.thomas-
krenn.com/en/wiki/Analyzing_a_Faulty_Hard_Disk_using_Smartctl#SMART_Tests
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
I opened Terminal, and typed (I was pummelling the thing by now)
smartctl -a /dev/sdf2
(The Disks app in Ubuntu had previously identified the iOS
partition 2
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
as
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
sdf2; the EFI partition was sdf1; the unallocatd partition was sdf
How do I get SmartMonTools to run while in Ubuntu?
Thanks
SmartMonTools has, as a feature, the ability to email you
if a disk is failing. That's what "PostFix" is for.
Just feed PostFix any old baloney. Hit OK or whatever.
Hit enough keys to finish the PostFix step and continue
with the SmartMonTools.
*******
These are some pictures of dealing with a LiveDVD of Ubuntu 18.04
x64.
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Turning on the Universe and Multiverse repositories is the first
step.
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
It even makes File Sharing, further in the pictures, work.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/1aecxj10c/
There are nine pictures total in the gallery.
https://s33.postimg.cc/y8ux86hzf/01_repo_man.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/6y9m07x23/02_dash_launch_terminal.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/7b106f2h7/03_install_smartmontools.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/pqlh3tw17/04_neuter_postfix.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/aumxw7prf/05_gddrescue.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/80jsirvaz/06_gddrescue_continued.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/6li7u29nf/07_screen_blank_off.gif
https://s33.postimg.cc/ahvjq2a2j/08
_share_screenshots_with_win_PC.gif
Post by Paul
https://s33.postimg.cc/jcwe0jguj/09
_share_screenshots_continued.gif
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Paul
Thanks for the instructions. I was able to update and then install
gddrescue and SmartMonTools yesteray night, and PostFix, but I had to
reboot back to Win7 late last night.
Back this morning and I figured I had to reinstall both packages,
since
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
nothing is saved on the Live version. Also configured PostFix.
But, it seems that Disks recognizes the Mac hard drive partitioni 2
(iOS)
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
differently from time to time Today it recognized it as sdf2, while
yesterday it was sdb. I got a permissions error. Of course, I could
be
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
approaching this incorrectly.
https://postimg.cc/image/453jdgqd7/7b9d689d/
Smartctl accesses hardware and needs root authority.
Place the word "sudo " as the first thing in front of
your smartctl command.
Paul
Smartctl tells me that the Mac HD does not have SMART capability.
To be sure Smartctl was reporting correctly, I checked my Win7 OS
drive.
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
https://postimg.cc/gallery/3b5pg9hss/
It should be smartctl and /dev/sda or /dev/sdf.
You don't put the numbers on the end, when specifying
"the whole device".
/dev/sda whole disk <=== SMART
/dev/sda1 first partition on disk
/dev/sda2 second partition on disk
When you're working on a partition, such as formatting
the partition, then you want the number on the
end, so the wrong partition(s) don't get splattered.
sudo mkfs.ext4 /dev/sda2 # when formatting, specify the exact
partition
Post by Paul
Sometimes the manual page for a command has working
examples at the bottom of the page, but... not in this case.
https://linux.die.net/man/8/mkfs.ntfs
HTH,
Paul
Ubuntu 18.04 'Disks' app shows the Mac HD with three partitions, an EFI, a
data, and an unallocated. But seems that smartctl doesn't have this Mac
HD in it's database
https://postimg.cc/image/r1j6biliz/
or smartctl doesn't like that the Mac HD is connected via USB, per
https://askubuntu.com/questions/637450/cannot-perform-smart-data-and-self-
test-on-external-hard-drive/637465
Perhaps I should connect directly to motherboard, but not sure if this
would make a difference. I doubt it's a USB issue because all other
external HDs are being reported fine with smartctl.
Regardless of what smartctl eventually? reports, I think what really
matters is imaaging with gddrescue.
I've bitten off more than I can (currently) chew.
Absolutely, connecting a hard drive via SATA makes a difference!
The SMART interface is an ATA feature. IDE and SATA follow ATA.
The motherboard ports are excellent for this work.
A kind of drive that doesn't have SMART, is SCSI. But I don't
know if that situation ever changed or not.
USB follows USB Mass Storage, and I don't recollect right
off hand, any "passthru" or "tunneling" interface to
do SMART work via USB.
You do need to be on a SATA port, to get the SATA drive
SMART info. That has the highest probability of working.
And initially, you want the table of numbers (so you
can see Current Pending or Reallocated raw data field
value). As well as the "Health" field that smartctl
offers above that table somewhere. Usually that
value is a joke, in that compromised drives can
show as "Healthy", even when they're not. If
the health summary said "Failing", then you'd know
the drive was actually in serious trouble.
Paul
Finally got down behind desk and cracked opened pc, connected MAC HD directly
to motherboard SATA port, and loaded Win7 first. (Drive would not slide into
bay because it had two permanent 2-3mm pegs on one side of the drive sticking
out, that couldn't be removed, but power and data cables were long enough to
connect, leaving drive outside of pc case, resting on floor.) I was now
curious to see how Windows would report this MAC HD.
Normally, when doing a cold boot, I never see a POST. Not that it goes by
fast, just that it never appears on screen. There doesn't seem to be a
setting to enable this to appear on my screen.
This time, with the MAC HD connected to SATA 2, the first POST notice to
appear showd a SMART Event for the MAC HD, ST3500418ASQ. Pressing CTRL-I
gets to RAID setup. I didn't go there.
After a few seconds, the next POST screen automatically appeared showing AHCI
Port1 Device Error
Press F2 to Resume
I pressed F2 and got thrown into the CMOS, but escaped out and Windows
loaded. Windows said ST3500418ASQ was installed, but kept "searching
preconfigured driver folders". After about five minutes, I closed that
window.
Device manager told me that ST3500418ASQ was working properly, and Disk
Manager told me that I had to initialize the MAC disk (disk1) before Disk
Manager could access it.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/lvvmu73w/
I rebooted to Ubuntu 18.04 Live. Ubuntu Live loaded normally. I launched
Disks, but the MAC HD did not show up. I remembered that when the MAC HD was
tethered via USB, the drive would only show up in Ubuntu if the drive was
powered up after launching Disks. Since the MAC HD was connected directly to
the motherboard (power and data), I didn't want to disconnect power and
reconnect it. Instead, I disconnected data and reconnected. Disks now
recognized the MAC HD, and said "Disk is likely to fail soon".
https://postimg.cc/image/mukn27m8r/
Anyway......here's a cut and paste of just the first part of what SmartCtl
smartctl 6.6 2016-05-31 r4324 [x86_64-linux-4.15.0-20-generic] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-16, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org
=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Device Model: ST3500418ASQ
Serial Number: 9VMF20R6
LU WWN Device Id: 5 000c50 0207370c3
Firmware Version: AP24
User Capacity: 500,107,862,016 bytes [500 GB]
Sector Size: 512 bytes logical/physical
Rotation Rate: 7200 rpm
Device is: Not in smartctl database [for details use: -P showall]
ATA Version is: ATA8-ACS T13/1699-D revision 4
SATA Version is: SATA 2.6, 3.0 Gb/s
Local Time is: Sun Jul 22 19:37:10 2018 UTC
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled
=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: FAILED!
Drive failure expected in less than 24 hours. SAVE ALL DATA.
See vendor-specific Attribute list for failed Attributes.
Boris
Well, if you absolutely cannot get the table with smartctl
in Linux, go back to windows and use the Health tab
of HDTune 2.55.

http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe

While Linux could be mis-interpreting some parameters
in SMART, it's possible the disk itself has some way
of indicating imminent failure after "doing the short
test" on its own. It could be a failure indicated by
short test, rather than an analysis of the SMART
parameter table to reach the same conclusion.

You really need to get working on your ddrescue/gddrescue.
And try and get as much data off the disk as possible.
Perhaps the active surface of the disk is toast, but
you'll discover that when you try. The thing is, the
disk would not have responded, unless the disk heads
loaded and the controller was able to read the
Service Area. So *some* portion of the platters
is readable. But we don't know how much.

Paul
Boris
2018-07-23 15:25:43 UTC
Permalink
Paul <***@needed.invalid> wrote in news:pj3h20$g9v$***@dont-email.me:

Huge snip
Post by Paul
Well, if you absolutely cannot get the table with smartctl
in Linux, go back to windows and use the Health tab
of HDTune 2.55.
http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe
While Linux could be mis-interpreting some parameters
in SMART, it's possible the disk itself has some way
of indicating imminent failure after "doing the short
test" on its own. It could be a failure indicated by
short test, rather than an analysis of the SMART
parameter table to reach the same conclusion.
You really need to get working on your ddrescue/gddrescue.
And try and get as much data off the disk as possible.
Perhaps the active surface of the disk is toast, but
you'll discover that when you try. The thing is, the
disk would not have responded, unless the disk heads
loaded and the controller was able to read the
Service Area. So *some* portion of the platters
is readable. But we don't know how much.
Paul
I ran HDTune 2.55 a few weeks ago with the MAC HD USB tethered. The
results were:

https://postimg.cc/gallery/25g6b1tdo/

The Health Tab displayed nothing for the MAC HD..

At the same time, to be sure HDTune was working correctly, I applied
HDTune 2.55 to my Windows OS disk, and it reported ok on all tabs but the
Health Tab, which displayed nothing.

Yesterday, with the MAC HD connected directly to the SATA motherboard
connection, HDTune recognized all drives on my system, except for the MAC
HD.

I'm not going to dick around any longer trying to get S.M.A.R.T. dats.

I'm going to see what I can do with imaging the MAC HD to another hard
drive.
Paul
2018-07-23 15:32:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boris
Huge snip
Post by Paul
Well, if you absolutely cannot get the table with smartctl
in Linux, go back to windows and use the Health tab
of HDTune 2.55.
http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe
While Linux could be mis-interpreting some parameters
in SMART, it's possible the disk itself has some way
of indicating imminent failure after "doing the short
test" on its own. It could be a failure indicated by
short test, rather than an analysis of the SMART
parameter table to reach the same conclusion.
You really need to get working on your ddrescue/gddrescue.
And try and get as much data off the disk as possible.
Perhaps the active surface of the disk is toast, but
you'll discover that when you try. The thing is, the
disk would not have responded, unless the disk heads
loaded and the controller was able to read the
Service Area. So *some* portion of the platters
is readable. But we don't know how much.
Paul
I ran HDTune 2.55 a few weeks ago with the MAC HD USB tethered. The
https://postimg.cc/gallery/25g6b1tdo/
The Health Tab displayed nothing for the MAC HD..
At the same time, to be sure HDTune was working correctly, I applied
HDTune 2.55 to my Windows OS disk, and it reported ok on all tabs but the
Health Tab, which displayed nothing.
Yesterday, with the MAC HD connected directly to the SATA motherboard
connection, HDTune recognized all drives on my system, except for the MAC
HD.
I'm not going to dick around any longer trying to get S.M.A.R.T. dats.
I'm going to see what I can do with imaging the MAC HD to another hard
drive.
It should have worked.

But ddrescue is where you have to go, and quickly.

The details don't matter any more, just the objective matters.
Save the sectors before it is too late.

Paul
Boris
2018-07-25 04:03:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Huge snip
Post by Paul
Well, if you absolutely cannot get the table with smartctl
in Linux, go back to windows and use the Health tab
of HDTune 2.55.
http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe
While Linux could be mis-interpreting some parameters
in SMART, it's possible the disk itself has some way
of indicating imminent failure after "doing the short
test" on its own. It could be a failure indicated by
short test, rather than an analysis of the SMART
parameter table to reach the same conclusion.
You really need to get working on your ddrescue/gddrescue.
And try and get as much data off the disk as possible.
Perhaps the active surface of the disk is toast, but
you'll discover that when you try. The thing is, the
disk would not have responded, unless the disk heads
loaded and the controller was able to read the
Service Area. So *some* portion of the platters
is readable. But we don't know how much.
Paul
I ran HDTune 2.55 a few weeks ago with the MAC HD USB tethered. The
https://postimg.cc/gallery/25g6b1tdo/
The Health Tab displayed nothing for the MAC HD..
At the same time, to be sure HDTune was working correctly, I applied
HDTune 2.55 to my Windows OS disk, and it reported ok on all tabs but the
Health Tab, which displayed nothing.
Yesterday, with the MAC HD connected directly to the SATA motherboard
connection, HDTune recognized all drives on my system, except for the MAC
HD.
I'm not going to dick around any longer trying to get S.M.A.R.T. dats.
I'm going to see what I can do with imaging the MAC HD to another hard
drive.
It should have worked.
But ddrescue is where you have to go, and quickly.
The details don't matter any more, just the objective matters.
Save the sectors before it is too late.
Paul
So the next step was to try ddrescue. I remembered Frank Slootweg (in
this thread 7/6/2018) warning that:

"sda and sdb dependent on the sequence in which you connect the
original disk and the to-be-copied-to disk?"

I tested this, and discovered this is true, that the device designation is
dependent on order of connection. With internal, USB flash, and USB
external drives attached, the sdX designations were different than if only
the two disks I wanted to use were connected. Also, the designations were
different depending on the order of connection. I guess Linux orders them
in order of discovery.

I disconnected all disks (including the Win7 OS disk, not wanting to blow
it up in error) and loaded up Knoppix. I then connected the MAC HD and a
new Western Digital Passport 1TB HD.

MAC HD = sda (source, 500GB)
Passport HD = sdf (destination, 1TB)

Linusx Disks told me that the Passport drive was mounted at /media/sdf1

I tried to run ddrescue with a log file, but couldn't get the syntax
correct, or maybe I did, but here's the results:


***@Microknoppix:~$ ddrescue -f /dev/sda /dev/sdf /media/sdf1
ddrescue: Mapfile exists and is not a regular file.
***@Microknoppix:~$ ddrescue -f /dev/sda /dev/sdf
GNU ddrescue 1.22
ipos: 500107 MB, non-trimmed: 0 B, current rate: 0 B/s
opos: 500107 MB, non-scraped: 0 B, average rate: 0 B/s
non-tried: 0 B, bad-sector: 500107 MB, error rate: 17313 kB/s
rescued: 0 B, bad areas: 1, run time: 2h 55m 25s
pct rescued: 0.00%, read errors:984404307, remaining time: n/a
time since last successful read: n/a
Finished
***@Microknoppix:~$


For the first few minutes, there was a line that said someting about
Trials 5. I thought this would last till the end of the run, but it
disappeared shortly, so I wasn't able to copy/paste it here.

I then logged on to the Passport drive...no changes.

Boris
Paul
2018-07-25 07:03:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Huge snip
Post by Paul
Well, if you absolutely cannot get the table with smartctl
in Linux, go back to windows and use the Health tab
of HDTune 2.55.
http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe
While Linux could be mis-interpreting some parameters
in SMART, it's possible the disk itself has some way
of indicating imminent failure after "doing the short
test" on its own. It could be a failure indicated by
short test, rather than an analysis of the SMART
parameter table to reach the same conclusion.
You really need to get working on your ddrescue/gddrescue.
And try and get as much data off the disk as possible.
Perhaps the active surface of the disk is toast, but
you'll discover that when you try. The thing is, the
disk would not have responded, unless the disk heads
loaded and the controller was able to read the
Service Area. So *some* portion of the platters
is readable. But we don't know how much.
Paul
I ran HDTune 2.55 a few weeks ago with the MAC HD USB tethered. The
https://postimg.cc/gallery/25g6b1tdo/
The Health Tab displayed nothing for the MAC HD..
At the same time, to be sure HDTune was working correctly, I applied
HDTune 2.55 to my Windows OS disk, and it reported ok on all tabs but
the
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Health Tab, which displayed nothing.
Yesterday, with the MAC HD connected directly to the SATA motherboard
connection, HDTune recognized all drives on my system, except for the
MAC
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
HD.
I'm not going to dick around any longer trying to get S.M.A.R.T. dats.
I'm going to see what I can do with imaging the MAC HD to another hard
drive.
It should have worked.
But ddrescue is where you have to go, and quickly.
The details don't matter any more, just the objective matters.
Save the sectors before it is too late.
Paul
So the next step was to try ddrescue. I remembered Frank Slootweg (in
"sda and sdb dependent on the sequence in which you connect the
original disk and the to-be-copied-to disk?"
I tested this, and discovered this is true, that the device designation is
dependent on order of connection. With internal, USB flash, and USB
external drives attached, the sdX designations were different than if only
the two disks I wanted to use were connected. Also, the designations were
different depending on the order of connection. I guess Linux orders them
in order of discovery.
I disconnected all disks (including the Win7 OS disk, not wanting to blow
it up in error) and loaded up Knoppix. I then connected the MAC HD and a
new Western Digital Passport 1TB HD.
MAC HD = sda (source, 500GB)
Passport HD = sdf (destination, 1TB)
Linusx Disks told me that the Passport drive was mounted at /media/sdf1
I tried to run ddrescue with a log file, but couldn't get the syntax
ddrescue: Mapfile exists and is not a regular file.
GNU ddrescue 1.22
ipos: 500107 MB, non-trimmed: 0 B, current rate: 0 B/s
opos: 500107 MB, non-scraped: 0 B, average rate: 0 B/s
non-tried: 0 B, bad-sector: 500107 MB, error rate: 17313 kB/s
rescued: 0 B, bad areas: 1, run time: 2h 55m 25s
pct rescued: 0.00%, read errors:984404307, remaining time: n/a
time since last successful read: n/a
Finished
For the first few minutes, there was a line that said someting about
Trials 5. I thought this would last till the end of the run, but it
disappeared shortly, so I wasn't able to copy/paste it here.
I then logged on to the Passport drive...no changes.
Boris
The mapfile should be a text file, not a partition.

You transfer a whole-disk-identifier to a whole-disk-identifier,
to do device to device cloning. You got that part right.

/dev/sda /dev/sdf

The third item in the list, should be a text file. Perhaps that's
the map file they refer to.

All I have here at the moment to test with is:

KNOPPIX_V8.1-2017-09-05-EN.iso 4,553,826,304 bytes

Which one do you have ?

The package likely comes from Debian, and you could check
your version of ddrescue as well. Mine is "version 1.22
of GNU ddrescue".

ddrescue -V

I doubt it's highly sensitive to version, but I don't
want to wander too far off target.

And you have the basic form right, except the mapfile.

ddrescue -f /dev/sda /dev/sdf ~/mymapfile.txt

You can use "whoami" to check what account you
are using currently. On Knoppix, this is likely
"root", so sudo is not needed. On Ubuntu, you
would use...

sudo ddrescue -f /dev/sda /dev/sdf ~/mymapfile.txt

**********

ddrescue can copy from a device to a device, a device to an image file,
an image file to a device. In this example (one I tested), I transferred
a device to an image file.

sudo ddrescue -S -b8M /dev/sdb /mount/external/backup/sdb.raw /mount/external/backup/sdb.log

The -S in that example, makes "sdb.raw" a "sparse" file, which
means that sectors full of zeros need not be recorded using
disk surface. Instead, a table of present or missing sectors
is kept, to conserve space. This only makes sense for disks
that are mostly full of zeros to start with. Normal disks
don't have an excess of sectors-full-of-zeros, so this -S
option will not help you.

The -b8M on the version I was using, was supposed to set the
transfer size. Yet, the manual page says it sets the sector
size. Which isn't the same thing. A lot of conventional
disks support 512 byte sectors. A "512n" disk is native,
and externally visible and internal representation are
both the same. A 512n disk is "512,512".

A 512e disk (quite common in 2018), is 512 bytes externally
(emulated) for compatibility, while inside the drive, the
storage is done using 4096 sectors. This 512e disk
would be "512,4096". This is not a preferred option for
WinXP, but Vista+ OSes align on 1MB boundaries, so the
4096 sector size aligns with the 1MB boundaries. Most
cluster operations on Vista+ then align with the
internal representation, for maximum efficiency.

The third type is not common. A 4Kn disk is "4096,4096"
disk. There are few tools to use with it (partition management
is hopeless). Windows 10 I think, will support a 4K sector,
so Windows 10 could see one. But my recommendation to people,
is to stay far away from these, unless you want your
computer usage with them to be one continuous experiment
and breadcrumb exercise.

So the only part of my command that doesn't make a lot
of sense, is the -b8M. Does it set the maximum transfer
size ? Or does it set a sector size ? The program should
be able to read the information, just the same way that
fdisk does.

sudo fdisk /dev/sdb

If you select "p" for print, then "q" for quit,
there's a line near the beginning that shows the
512n, 512e, 4Kn nature of the drive. The internal and
external sector sizes are shown.

In any case, this is the syntax I'd be trying. The -b8M
may speed up the trial speed. The claim I read, is
the transfer size is "adaptive" and the command adjusts
the transfer size per command, to optimize bandwidth.
That's what the -b was supposed to do, according to the
documentation I was reading at one time.

ddrescue -b8M /dev/sda /dev/sdf ~/mymapfile.txt

Some more examples here.

https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/17087/clone-whole-partition-or-hard-drive-to-a-sparse-file

*******

You showed me a result before with HDTune, which is
consistent with your ddrescue result.

And both results make no sense :-/

There is something *weird* about that Mac disk.

An ATA disk will *not* be visible, if it has internal
troubles. The ATA disk spins up, and loads the heads onto
the platter, using a relatively small firmware loader
on the controller board.

The full ATA command set, is a larger chunk of code in
the Service Area of the platter. Otherwise known as
"Sector -1" because it is in an area that ordinary users
cannot access. Once the SA is loaded, the drive is ready
to accept ATA commands from the SATA bus.

The first command sent by the BIOS, is an "identify yourself".
And the returning of a single packet with "ST3500418..."
tells you that a SATA packet was eventually received
error free from the drive.

And we know enough of the drive works, that HDTune plays with
it in Windows.

But we also know, that an HDTune error scan, returns nothing
but red blocks. How is that possible ? How can the surface
be inaccessible like that, when we know the SA loaded
(a couple megabytes), and the drive came up ?

There is something about this disk, I just don't understand.

The only other breadcrumb I have for you, is certain
Macs years ago, needed the Spread Spectrum jumper
inserted on the back of the drive. Some brands of
drives have four pins. (Note that there can be *several*
four pin blocks, and you have to be careful to pick the
correct one.)

X X X X
Force150 SpreadSpectrum

The Force150 jumper is only needed for VIA chipsets
(something Apple isn't likely to use). The SpreadSpectrum
on the other hand, when you insert that jumper, it defeats
SpreadSpectrum clock modulation on the cable.

The purpose of SpreadSpectrum, is to defeat FCC15 testing.
It spreads the emissions to a slightly broader peak, so
hardware can pass FCC testing. It doesn't mean that the
device interferes any less with other radio equipment.

A very small number of interface chips, cannot track the
triangle wave modulation of SS. Normally, you'd use a PLL
or DLL or training clock, to come up with a scheme so you
can read packets while the clock rate continuously changes.
Some Apple chip could not do this at the time, and drives
connected to that Apple device, needed the SS jumper to
be inserted.

But other than that observation, I don't understand
how the entire surface of the disk is inaccessible,
while the SA reads fine and the drive comes up.
Would some service person have changed the jumper
state, and if so, why ?

Jumpers on those drives are probably 2mm type. There are
two jumper caps - 0.1" jumpers and 2mm jumpers, and one
type doesn't fit the other spacing all that well. I
had to look in my basement, in an old disk enclosure
product box, for a bag of ten 2mm jumpers I had. And
I've been using those over the years for stuff like
this.

I tried running the part number

ST3500418ASQ

only to find this gibberish about a "thermal sensor".

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/21-5-27-imac-hd-replacement.841205/

Some more here. These guys are usually pretty good at this
stuff (they tap into other forums to get the scoop
on "non-standard" crap).

https://blog.macsales.com/10206-further-explained-apples-imac-2011-model-hard-drive-restrictions

Now, does that have anything electrically to do with the
drive ? Is it just the controller sensor, pinned out
to a header, so the controller can take external
temp readings ?

That should have nothing to do with reading data
from the drive. Whereas Spread Spectrum could.

I can't find that exact part number on the Seagate site.
It could be considered an OEM special just for Apple.

I haven't been able to find any dmesg Linux boot
cycles for that device, giving particulars. And the
Mac boot log is useless.

*******

Note the usage of branded firmware on the controller board. WTF?

http://firmware.hddsurgery.com/?manufacturer=Seagate&family=Pharaoh

ST3500418ASQ AP24 Pharaoh 5VM59RXH 2016-07-16

ST3500418AS CC37 Pharaoh 6VM66MWD 2016-07-16

The label on my 418AS drive shows it is running CC46, but
you can see the basic idea. That the "Apple OEM" drive
runs "APxx" firmware for some reason (maybe it does head park
or spins slower when idle or something, like a more aggressive
power management scheme).

So far, no evidence any of this affects reading data
from the drive.

I didn't rush this post off to you, because I suspect
we won't be getting any ddrescue data, until we figure
out what else isn't standard about the drive. I can't find
enough discussions in threads on the Internet about the
drive, to figure it out.

Perhaps you could take a picture of your hard drive or
at least examine it for differences to this.

Loading Image...

Even if the drive was encrypted, it should still read
without CRC errors. Why is the *whole* surface unreadable.
It's not a failure.

Paul
Boris
2018-07-25 19:38:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Huge snip
Post by Paul
Well, if you absolutely cannot get the table with smartctl
in Linux, go back to windows and use the Health tab
of HDTune 2.55.
http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe
While Linux could be mis-interpreting some parameters
in SMART, it's possible the disk itself has some way
of indicating imminent failure after "doing the short
test" on its own. It could be a failure indicated by
short test, rather than an analysis of the SMART
parameter table to reach the same conclusion.
You really need to get working on your ddrescue/gddrescue.
And try and get as much data off the disk as possible.
Perhaps the active surface of the disk is toast, but
you'll discover that when you try. The thing is, the
disk would not have responded, unless the disk heads
loaded and the controller was able to read the
Service Area. So *some* portion of the platters
is readable. But we don't know how much.
Paul
I ran HDTune 2.55 a few weeks ago with the MAC HD USB tethered. The
https://postimg.cc/gallery/25g6b1tdo/
The Health Tab displayed nothing for the MAC HD..
At the same time, to be sure HDTune was working correctly, I applied
HDTune 2.55 to my Windows OS disk, and it reported ok on all tabs but
the
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Health Tab, which displayed nothing.
Yesterday, with the MAC HD connected directly to the SATA motherboard
connection, HDTune recognized all drives on my system, except for the
MAC
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
HD.
I'm not going to dick around any longer trying to get S.M.A.R.T. dats.
I'm going to see what I can do with imaging the MAC HD to another hard
drive.
It should have worked.
But ddrescue is where you have to go, and quickly.
The details don't matter any more, just the objective matters.
Save the sectors before it is too late.
Paul
So the next step was to try ddrescue. I remembered Frank Slootweg (in
"sda and sdb dependent on the sequence in which you connect the
original disk and the to-be-copied-to disk?"
I tested this, and discovered this is true, that the device designation is
dependent on order of connection. With internal, USB flash, and USB
external drives attached, the sdX designations were different than if only
the two disks I wanted to use were connected. Also, the designations were
different depending on the order of connection. I guess Linux orders them
in order of discovery.
I disconnected all disks (including the Win7 OS disk, not wanting to blow
it up in error) and loaded up Knoppix. I then connected the MAC HD and a
new Western Digital Passport 1TB HD.
MAC HD = sda (source, 500GB)
Passport HD = sdf (destination, 1TB)
Linusx Disks told me that the Passport drive was mounted at /media/sdf1
I tried to run ddrescue with a log file, but couldn't get the syntax
ddrescue: Mapfile exists and is not a regular file.
GNU ddrescue 1.22
ipos: 500107 MB, non-trimmed: 0 B, current rate: 0 B/s
opos: 500107 MB, non-scraped: 0 B, average rate: 0 B/s
non-tried: 0 B, bad-sector: 500107 MB, error rate: 17313 kB/s
rescued: 0 B, bad areas: 1, run time: 2h 55m 25s
n/a
n/a
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Finished
For the first few minutes, there was a line that said someting about
Trials 5. I thought this would last till the end of the run, but it
disappeared shortly, so I wasn't able to copy/paste it here.
I then logged on to the Passport drive...no changes.
Boris
The mapfile should be a text file, not a partition.
You transfer a whole-disk-identifier to a whole-disk-identifier,
to do device to device cloning. You got that part right.
/dev/sda /dev/sdf
The third item in the list, should be a text file. Perhaps that's
the map file they refer to.
KNOPPIX_V8.1-2017-09-05-EN.iso 4,553,826,304 bytes
Which one do you have ?
Exactly the same: Knoppix v8.1-2017-09-05, 4,553,826,304 bytes

This is where I found link to Knoppix, and the instructions on using this
particular live dvd:

https://www.data-medics.com/forum/how-to-clone-a-hard-drive-with-bad-
sectors-using-ddrescue-t133.html

(I also have live dvd versions of Debianlive9.4.0 Cinnamon and Ubuntu-
18.04-desktop-amd64, which I've tried, but like Knoppix best.)
Post by Paul
The package likely comes from Debian, and you could check
your version of ddrescue as well. Mine is "version 1.22
of GNU ddrescue".
ddrescue -V
I doubt it's highly sensitive to version, but I don't
want to wander too far off target.
Mine is also version 1.22, as shown on the copy/paste of the ddrescue
report.
Post by Paul
And you have the basic form right, except the mapfile.
ddrescue -f /dev/sda /dev/sdf ~/mymapfile.txt
You can use "whoami" to check what account you
are using currently. On Knoppix, this is likely
"root", so sudo is not needed. On Ubuntu, you
would use...
I will have to check with "whoami" later, but I have been using sudo,
perhaps unnecessarily. I think I do remember that Knoppix logs me to
automatically right to the root.
Post by Paul
sudo ddrescue -f /dev/sda /dev/sdf ~/mymapfile.txt
**********
ddrescue can copy from a device to a device, a device to an image file,
an image file to a device. In this example (one I tested), I transferred
a device to an image file.
sudo ddrescue -S -b8M /dev/sdb /mount/external/backup/sdb.raw
/mount/external/backup/sdb.log
Post by Paul
The -S in that example, makes "sdb.raw" a "sparse" file, which
means that sectors full of zeros need not be recorded using
disk surface. Instead, a table of present or missing sectors
is kept, to conserve space. This only makes sense for disks
that are mostly full of zeros to start with. Normal disks
don't have an excess of sectors-full-of-zeros, so this -S
option will not help you.
The -b8M on the version I was using, was supposed to set the
transfer size. Yet, the manual page says it sets the sector
size. Which isn't the same thing. A lot of conventional
disks support 512 byte sectors. A "512n" disk is native,
and externally visible and internal representation are
both the same. A 512n disk is "512,512".
A 512e disk (quite common in 2018), is 512 bytes externally
(emulated) for compatibility, while inside the drive, the
storage is done using 4096 sectors. This 512e disk
would be "512,4096". This is not a preferred option for
WinXP, but Vista+ OSes align on 1MB boundaries, so the
4096 sector size aligns with the 1MB boundaries. Most
cluster operations on Vista+ then align with the
internal representation, for maximum efficiency.
The third type is not common. A 4Kn disk is "4096,4096"
disk. There are few tools to use with it (partition management
is hopeless). Windows 10 I think, will support a 4K sector,
so Windows 10 could see one. But my recommendation to people,
is to stay far away from these, unless you want your
computer usage with them to be one continuous experiment
and breadcrumb exercise.
So the only part of my command that doesn't make a lot
of sense, is the -b8M. Does it set the maximum transfer
size ? Or does it set a sector size ? The program should
be able to read the information, just the same way that
fdisk does.
sudo fdisk /dev/sdb
If you select "p" for print, then "q" for quit,
there's a line near the beginning that shows the
512n, 512e, 4Kn nature of the drive. The internal and
external sector sizes are shown.
In any case, this is the syntax I'd be trying. The -b8M
may speed up the trial speed. The claim I read, is
the transfer size is "adaptive" and the command adjusts
the transfer size per command, to optimize bandwidth.
That's what the -b was supposed to do, according to the
documentation I was reading at one time.
ddrescue -b8M /dev/sda /dev/sdf ~/mymapfile.txt
Some more examples here.
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/17087/clone-whole-partition-or-
hard-drive-to-a-sparse-file
Post by Paul
*******
You showed me a result before with HDTune, which is
consistent with your ddrescue result.
And both results make no sense :-/
There is something *weird* about that Mac disk.
An ATA disk will *not* be visible, if it has internal
troubles. The ATA disk spins up, and loads the heads onto
the platter, using a relatively small firmware loader
on the controller board.
The full ATA command set, is a larger chunk of code in
the Service Area of the platter. Otherwise known as
"Sector -1" because it is in an area that ordinary users
cannot access. Once the SA is loaded, the drive is ready
to accept ATA commands from the SATA bus.
The first command sent by the BIOS, is an "identify yourself".
And the returning of a single packet with "ST3500418..."
tells you that a SATA packet was eventually received
error free from the drive.
I see. Didn't know that. So that's why you say something's weird.
Post by Paul
And we know enough of the drive works, that HDTune plays with
it in Windows.
But we also know, that an HDTune error scan, returns nothing
but red blocks. How is that possible ? How can the surface
be inaccessible like that, when we know the SA loaded
(a couple megabytes), and the drive came up ?
So the SA area on the HD was supposedly scanned by HDTune, but returned as
a red block?
Post by Paul
There is something about this disk, I just don't understand.
The only other breadcrumb I have for you, is certain
Macs years ago, needed the Spread Spectrum jumper
inserted on the back of the drive. Some brands of
drives have four pins. (Note that there can be *several*
four pin blocks, and you have to be careful to pick the
correct one.)
X X X X
Force150 SpreadSpectrum
The Force150 jumper is only needed for VIA chipsets
(something Apple isn't likely to use). The SpreadSpectrum
on the other hand, when you insert that jumper, it defeats
SpreadSpectrum clock modulation on the cable.
The purpose of SpreadSpectrum, is to defeat FCC15 testing.
It spreads the emissions to a slightly broader peak, so
hardware can pass FCC testing. It doesn't mean that the
device interferes any less with other radio equipment.
A very small number of interface chips, cannot track the
triangle wave modulation of SS. Normally, you'd use a PLL
or DLL or training clock, to come up with a scheme so you
can read packets while the clock rate continuously changes.
Some Apple chip could not do this at the time, and drives
connected to that Apple device, needed the SS jumper to
be inserted.
But other than that observation, I don't understand
how the entire surface of the disk is inaccessible,
while the SA reads fine and the drive comes up.
Would some service person have changed the jumper
state, and if so, why ?
Jumpers on those drives are probably 2mm type. There are
two jumper caps - 0.1" jumpers and 2mm jumpers, and one
type doesn't fit the other spacing all that well. I
had to look in my basement, in an old disk enclosure
product box, for a bag of ten 2mm jumpers I had. And
I've been using those over the years for stuff like
this.
I tried running the part number
ST3500418ASQ
only to find this gibberish about a "thermal sensor".
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/21-5-27-imac-hd-replacement.841205/
Some more here. These guys are usually pretty good at this
stuff (they tap into other forums to get the scoop
on "non-standard" crap).
https://blog.macsales.com/10206-further-explained-apples-imac-2011-
model-hard-drive-restrictions
Post by Paul
Now, does that have anything electrically to do with the
drive ? Is it just the controller sensor, pinned out
to a header, so the controller can take external
temp readings ?
That should have nothing to do with reading data
from the drive. Whereas Spread Spectrum could.
I can't find that exact part number on the Seagate site.
It could be considered an OEM special just for Apple.
I haven't been able to find any dmesg Linux boot
cycles for that device, giving particulars. And the
Mac boot log is useless.
*******
Note the usage of branded firmware on the controller board. WTF?
http://firmware.hddsurgery.com/?manufacturer=Seagate&family=Pharaoh
ST3500418ASQ AP24 Pharaoh 5VM59RXH 2016-07-16
ST3500418AS CC37 Pharaoh 6VM66MWD 2016-07-16
The label on my 418AS drive shows it is running CC46, but
you can see the basic idea. That the "Apple OEM" drive
runs "APxx" firmware for some reason (maybe it does head park
or spins slower when idle or something, like a more aggressive
power management scheme).
So far, no evidence any of this affects reading data
from the drive.
I didn't rush this post off to you, because I suspect
we won't be getting any ddrescue data, until we figure
out what else isn't standard about the drive. I can't find
enough discussions in threads on the Internet about the
drive, to figure it out.
Perhaps you could take a picture of your hard drive or
at least examine it for differences to this.
https://s33.postimg.cc/6loshhxxb/ST3500418.gif
Even if the drive was encrypted, it should still read
without CRC errors. Why is the *whole* surface unreadable.
It's not a failure.
Paul
Here's a pic of the drive and it's pins. The drive is an OEM made for
Apple, and there is a jumper block, but there is no jumper.

https://postimg.cc/gallery/3h3j12g8s/
Paul
2018-07-26 03:18:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Huge snip
Post by Paul
Well, if you absolutely cannot get the table with smartctl
in Linux, go back to windows and use the Health tab
of HDTune 2.55.
http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe
While Linux could be mis-interpreting some parameters
in SMART, it's possible the disk itself has some way
of indicating imminent failure after "doing the short
test" on its own. It could be a failure indicated by
short test, rather than an analysis of the SMART
parameter table to reach the same conclusion.
You really need to get working on your ddrescue/gddrescue.
And try and get as much data off the disk as possible.
Perhaps the active surface of the disk is toast, but
you'll discover that when you try. The thing is, the
disk would not have responded, unless the disk heads
loaded and the controller was able to read the
Service Area. So *some* portion of the platters
is readable. But we don't know how much.
Paul
I ran HDTune 2.55 a few weeks ago with the MAC HD USB tethered. The
https://postimg.cc/gallery/25g6b1tdo/
The Health Tab displayed nothing for the MAC HD..
At the same time, to be sure HDTune was working correctly, I applied
HDTune 2.55 to my Windows OS disk, and it reported ok on all tabs but
the
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Health Tab, which displayed nothing.
Yesterday, with the MAC HD connected directly to the SATA motherboard
connection, HDTune recognized all drives on my system, except for the
MAC
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
HD.
I'm not going to dick around any longer trying to get S.M.A.R.T.
dats.
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
I'm going to see what I can do with imaging the MAC HD to another
hard
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
drive.
It should have worked.
But ddrescue is where you have to go, and quickly.
The details don't matter any more, just the objective matters.
Save the sectors before it is too late.
Paul
So the next step was to try ddrescue. I remembered Frank Slootweg (in
"sda and sdb dependent on the sequence in which you connect the
original disk and the to-be-copied-to disk?"
I tested this, and discovered this is true, that the device designation
is
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
dependent on order of connection. With internal, USB flash, and USB
external drives attached, the sdX designations were different than if
only
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
the two disks I wanted to use were connected. Also, the designations
were
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
different depending on the order of connection. I guess Linux orders
them
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
in order of discovery.
I disconnected all disks (including the Win7 OS disk, not wanting to
blow
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
it up in error) and loaded up Knoppix. I then connected the MAC HD and
a
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
new Western Digital Passport 1TB HD.
MAC HD = sda (source, 500GB)
Passport HD = sdf (destination, 1TB)
Linusx Disks told me that the Passport drive was mounted at /media/sdf1
I tried to run ddrescue with a log file, but couldn't get the syntax
ddrescue: Mapfile exists and is not a regular file.
GNU ddrescue 1.22
ipos: 500107 MB, non-trimmed: 0 B, current rate: 0
B/s
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
opos: 500107 MB, non-scraped: 0 B, average rate: 0
B/s
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
non-tried: 0 B, bad-sector: 500107 MB, error rate: 17313
kB/s
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
rescued: 0 B, bad areas: 1, run time: 2h 55m
25s
n/a
n/a
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Finished
For the first few minutes, there was a line that said someting about
Trials 5. I thought this would last till the end of the run, but it
disappeared shortly, so I wasn't able to copy/paste it here.
I then logged on to the Passport drive...no changes.
Boris
The mapfile should be a text file, not a partition.
You transfer a whole-disk-identifier to a whole-disk-identifier,
to do device to device cloning. You got that part right.
/dev/sda /dev/sdf
The third item in the list, should be a text file. Perhaps that's
the map file they refer to.
KNOPPIX_V8.1-2017-09-05-EN.iso 4,553,826,304 bytes
Which one do you have ?
Exactly the same: Knoppix v8.1-2017-09-05, 4,553,826,304 bytes
This is where I found link to Knoppix, and the instructions on using this
https://www.data-medics.com/forum/how-to-clone-a-hard-drive-with-bad-
sectors-using-ddrescue-t133.html
(I also have live dvd versions of Debianlive9.4.0 Cinnamon and Ubuntu-
18.04-desktop-amd64, which I've tried, but like Knoppix best.)
Post by Paul
The package likely comes from Debian, and you could check
your version of ddrescue as well. Mine is "version 1.22
of GNU ddrescue".
ddrescue -V
I doubt it's highly sensitive to version, but I don't
want to wander too far off target.
Mine is also version 1.22, as shown on the copy/paste of the ddrescue
report.
Post by Paul
And you have the basic form right, except the mapfile.
ddrescue -f /dev/sda /dev/sdf ~/mymapfile.txt
You can use "whoami" to check what account you
are using currently. On Knoppix, this is likely
"root", so sudo is not needed. On Ubuntu, you
would use...
I will have to check with "whoami" later, but I have been using sudo,
perhaps unnecessarily. I think I do remember that Knoppix logs me to
automatically right to the root.
Post by Paul
sudo ddrescue -f /dev/sda /dev/sdf ~/mymapfile.txt
**********
ddrescue can copy from a device to a device, a device to an image file,
an image file to a device. In this example (one I tested), I transferred
a device to an image file.
sudo ddrescue -S -b8M /dev/sdb /mount/external/backup/sdb.raw
/mount/external/backup/sdb.log
Post by Paul
The -S in that example, makes "sdb.raw" a "sparse" file, which
means that sectors full of zeros need not be recorded using
disk surface. Instead, a table of present or missing sectors
is kept, to conserve space. This only makes sense for disks
that are mostly full of zeros to start with. Normal disks
don't have an excess of sectors-full-of-zeros, so this -S
option will not help you.
The -b8M on the version I was using, was supposed to set the
transfer size. Yet, the manual page says it sets the sector
size. Which isn't the same thing. A lot of conventional
disks support 512 byte sectors. A "512n" disk is native,
and externally visible and internal representation are
both the same. A 512n disk is "512,512".
A 512e disk (quite common in 2018), is 512 bytes externally
(emulated) for compatibility, while inside the drive, the
storage is done using 4096 sectors. This 512e disk
would be "512,4096". This is not a preferred option for
WinXP, but Vista+ OSes align on 1MB boundaries, so the
4096 sector size aligns with the 1MB boundaries. Most
cluster operations on Vista+ then align with the
internal representation, for maximum efficiency.
The third type is not common. A 4Kn disk is "4096,4096"
disk. There are few tools to use with it (partition management
is hopeless). Windows 10 I think, will support a 4K sector,
so Windows 10 could see one. But my recommendation to people,
is to stay far away from these, unless you want your
computer usage with them to be one continuous experiment
and breadcrumb exercise.
So the only part of my command that doesn't make a lot
of sense, is the -b8M. Does it set the maximum transfer
size ? Or does it set a sector size ? The program should
be able to read the information, just the same way that
fdisk does.
sudo fdisk /dev/sdb
If you select "p" for print, then "q" for quit,
there's a line near the beginning that shows the
512n, 512e, 4Kn nature of the drive. The internal and
external sector sizes are shown.
In any case, this is the syntax I'd be trying. The -b8M
may speed up the trial speed. The claim I read, is
the transfer size is "adaptive" and the command adjusts
the transfer size per command, to optimize bandwidth.
That's what the -b was supposed to do, according to the
documentation I was reading at one time.
ddrescue -b8M /dev/sda /dev/sdf ~/mymapfile.txt
Some more examples here.
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/17087/clone-whole-partition-or-
hard-drive-to-a-sparse-file
Post by Paul
*******
You showed me a result before with HDTune, which is
consistent with your ddrescue result.
And both results make no sense :-/
There is something *weird* about that Mac disk.
An ATA disk will *not* be visible, if it has internal
troubles. The ATA disk spins up, and loads the heads onto
the platter, using a relatively small firmware loader
on the controller board.
The full ATA command set, is a larger chunk of code in
the Service Area of the platter. Otherwise known as
"Sector -1" because it is in an area that ordinary users
cannot access. Once the SA is loaded, the drive is ready
to accept ATA commands from the SATA bus.
The first command sent by the BIOS, is an "identify yourself".
And the returning of a single packet with "ST3500418..."
tells you that a SATA packet was eventually received
error free from the drive.
I see. Didn't know that. So that's why you say something's weird.
Post by Paul
And we know enough of the drive works, that HDTune plays with
it in Windows.
But we also know, that an HDTune error scan, returns nothing
but red blocks. How is that possible ? How can the surface
be inaccessible like that, when we know the SA loaded
(a couple megabytes), and the drive came up ?
So the SA area on the HD was supposedly scanned by HDTune, but returned as
a red block?
Post by Paul
There is something about this disk, I just don't understand.
The only other breadcrumb I have for you, is certain
Macs years ago, needed the Spread Spectrum jumper
inserted on the back of the drive. Some brands of
drives have four pins. (Note that there can be *several*
four pin blocks, and you have to be careful to pick the
correct one.)
X X X X
Force150 SpreadSpectrum
The Force150 jumper is only needed for VIA chipsets
(something Apple isn't likely to use). The SpreadSpectrum
on the other hand, when you insert that jumper, it defeats
SpreadSpectrum clock modulation on the cable.
The purpose of SpreadSpectrum, is to defeat FCC15 testing.
It spreads the emissions to a slightly broader peak, so
hardware can pass FCC testing. It doesn't mean that the
device interferes any less with other radio equipment.
A very small number of interface chips, cannot track the
triangle wave modulation of SS. Normally, you'd use a PLL
or DLL or training clock, to come up with a scheme so you
can read packets while the clock rate continuously changes.
Some Apple chip could not do this at the time, and drives
connected to that Apple device, needed the SS jumper to
be inserted.
But other than that observation, I don't understand
how the entire surface of the disk is inaccessible,
while the SA reads fine and the drive comes up.
Would some service person have changed the jumper
state, and if so, why ?
Jumpers on those drives are probably 2mm type. There are
two jumper caps - 0.1" jumpers and 2mm jumpers, and one
type doesn't fit the other spacing all that well. I
had to look in my basement, in an old disk enclosure
product box, for a bag of ten 2mm jumpers I had. And
I've been using those over the years for stuff like
this.
I tried running the part number
ST3500418ASQ
only to find this gibberish about a "thermal sensor".
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/21-5-27-imac-hd-replacement.841205/
Some more here. These guys are usually pretty good at this
stuff (they tap into other forums to get the scoop
on "non-standard" crap).
https://blog.macsales.com/10206-further-explained-apples-imac-2011-
model-hard-drive-restrictions
Post by Paul
Now, does that have anything electrically to do with the
drive ? Is it just the controller sensor, pinned out
to a header, so the controller can take external
temp readings ?
That should have nothing to do with reading data
from the drive. Whereas Spread Spectrum could.
I can't find that exact part number on the Seagate site.
It could be considered an OEM special just for Apple.
I haven't been able to find any dmesg Linux boot
cycles for that device, giving particulars. And the
Mac boot log is useless.
*******
Note the usage of branded firmware on the controller board. WTF?
http://firmware.hddsurgery.com/?manufacturer=Seagate&family=Pharaoh
ST3500418ASQ AP24 Pharaoh 5VM59RXH 2016-07-16
ST3500418AS CC37 Pharaoh 6VM66MWD 2016-07-16
The label on my 418AS drive shows it is running CC46, but
you can see the basic idea. That the "Apple OEM" drive
runs "APxx" firmware for some reason (maybe it does head park
or spins slower when idle or something, like a more aggressive
power management scheme).
So far, no evidence any of this affects reading data
from the drive.
I didn't rush this post off to you, because I suspect
we won't be getting any ddrescue data, until we figure
out what else isn't standard about the drive. I can't find
enough discussions in threads on the Internet about the
drive, to figure it out.
Perhaps you could take a picture of your hard drive or
at least examine it for differences to this.
https://s33.postimg.cc/6loshhxxb/ST3500418.gif
Even if the drive was encrypted, it should still read
without CRC errors. Why is the *whole* surface unreadable.
It's not a failure.
Paul
Here's a pic of the drive and it's pins. The drive is an OEM made for
Apple, and there is a jumper block, but there is no jumper.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/3h3j12g8s/
I don't see any thermistor or connector with six pins (two
of which are wired) in the picture. But the drive is
running Apple firmware. Which might be nothing more
than aggressive spindown code (i.e. most of the ROM
is likely to be the same code as retail 418AS drives).

In the manual here for "Seatools For Windows", you could
try the "Short Drive Self Check". Don't use the "Fix All",
as that appears to be an attempt to get reallocations
going, and that's not going to work. You can get
"Seatools For Windows" from the Seagate site.

https://www.seagate.com/files/www-content/support-content/downloads/seatools/_shared/downloads/pdf/SeaTools-for-windows-en-us.pdf

If you press F8, apparently it offers the "Long Drive Self Check"
which is not in that picture. An older version of Seatools
(the one I have here), just put the short and long entries
in the menu, without needing to press a function key.

It's almost like your drive has had a data structure corruption.
The Service Area not only holds firmware which is loaded
into RAM, but it also holds data structures. Included
in those data structures, is the reallocation table.

But in the past, a typical situation is, when the data structure
thing is broken, the drive just "bricks". Normally, any
kind of problem with data structure, makes toast out
of the drive.

Other than that, I'm at a loss to explain how the
drive is able to read the Service Area, but cannot
read any other sector. It implies a firmware problem
of some sort. A Google search isn't picking up a
trend on that drive. There have been products
in the past, with a very strong theme, such as
failure exactly 30 days after the user bought
the drive.

The ATA standard allows downloading of drive firmware
into drive RAM (for usage during the current session).
A second command allows "committing" a firmware
download to the Service Area, making the firmware
permanent (equivalent to flashing). The drive
has a bootstrap routine stored in onboard flash.
The majority of the code (the part that parses ATA
commands and decides what to do), is stored in the
Service Area firmware store.

Your drive doesn't seem to have a hardware failure.
Something happens to it, after reading the Service
Area and it starts running the regular code to accept
input commands.

I'm hoping that when you run the SMART short test,
you'll get additional information. Since the main
code body is running at that time though, the SMART
might end up seeing all the CRC errors that the OS
sees.

Summary: Likely needs a Data Recovery company, unless
an identified issue with the drive is recorded
somewhere in Google. And I only see "normal"
failures for the drive at the moment. Mine,
for example, has a high reallocation count (400+).
Opening the HDA may not be necessary to fix
this, but blowing away the reallocation table
will "shred" the data (some files could end up
with sectors that don't belong there).

That drive model, varies from heaven to hell :-)
This is another one of my 418AS drives, which runs
continuously on this computer. This is probably the
second-longest-lived drive I've ever dealt with. The
record holder was 60,000 hours (a drive at work).
Considering the field statistics for this drive
model, how is this possible ???

Loading Image...

Paul
Boris
2018-07-27 03:34:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Huge snip
Post by Paul
Well, if you absolutely cannot get the table with smartctl
in Linux, go back to windows and use the Health tab
of HDTune 2.55.
http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe
While Linux could be mis-interpreting some parameters
in SMART, it's possible the disk itself has some way
of indicating imminent failure after "doing the short
test" on its own. It could be a failure indicated by
short test, rather than an analysis of the SMART
parameter table to reach the same conclusion.
You really need to get working on your ddrescue/gddrescue.
And try and get as much data off the disk as possible.
Perhaps the active surface of the disk is toast, but
you'll discover that when you try. The thing is, the
disk would not have responded, unless the disk heads
loaded and the controller was able to read the
Service Area. So *some* portion of the platters
is readable. But we don't know how much.
Paul
I ran HDTune 2.55 a few weeks ago with the MAC HD USB tethered. The
https://postimg.cc/gallery/25g6b1tdo/
The Health Tab displayed nothing for the MAC HD..
At the same time, to be sure HDTune was working correctly, I applied
HDTune 2.55 to my Windows OS disk, and it reported ok on all tabs but
the
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Health Tab, which displayed nothing.
Yesterday, with the MAC HD connected directly to the SATA motherboard
connection, HDTune recognized all drives on my system, except for the
MAC
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
HD.
I'm not going to dick around any longer trying to get S.M.A.R.T.
dats.
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
I'm going to see what I can do with imaging the MAC HD to another
hard
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
drive.
It should have worked.
But ddrescue is where you have to go, and quickly.
The details don't matter any more, just the objective matters.
Save the sectors before it is too late.
Paul
So the next step was to try ddrescue. I remembered Frank Slootweg (in
"sda and sdb dependent on the sequence in which you connect the
original disk and the to-be-copied-to disk?"
I tested this, and discovered this is true, that the device designation
is
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
dependent on order of connection. With internal, USB flash, and USB
external drives attached, the sdX designations were different than if
only
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
the two disks I wanted to use were connected. Also, the designations
were
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
different depending on the order of connection. I guess Linux orders
them
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
in order of discovery.
I disconnected all disks (including the Win7 OS disk, not wanting to
blow
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
it up in error) and loaded up Knoppix. I then connected the MAC HD and
a
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
new Western Digital Passport 1TB HD.
MAC HD = sda (source, 500GB)
Passport HD = sdf (destination, 1TB)
Linusx Disks told me that the Passport drive was mounted at /media/sdf1
I tried to run ddrescue with a log file, but couldn't get the syntax
ddrescue: Mapfile exists and is not a regular file.
GNU ddrescue 1.22
ipos: 500107 MB, non-trimmed: 0 B, current rate: 0
B/s
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
opos: 500107 MB, non-scraped: 0 B, average rate: 0
B/s
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
non-tried: 0 B, bad-sector: 500107 MB, error rate: 17313
kB/s
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
rescued: 0 B, bad areas: 1, run time: 2h 55m
25s
n/a
n/a
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Finished
For the first few minutes, there was a line that said someting about
Trials 5. I thought this would last till the end of the run, but it
disappeared shortly, so I wasn't able to copy/paste it here.
I then logged on to the Passport drive...no changes.
Boris
The mapfile should be a text file, not a partition.
You transfer a whole-disk-identifier to a whole-disk-identifier,
to do device to device cloning. You got that part right.
/dev/sda /dev/sdf
The third item in the list, should be a text file. Perhaps that's
the map file they refer to.
KNOPPIX_V8.1-2017-09-05-EN.iso 4,553,826,304 bytes
Which one do you have ?
Exactly the same: Knoppix v8.1-2017-09-05, 4,553,826,304 bytes
This is where I found link to Knoppix, and the instructions on using this
https://www.data-medics.com/forum/how-to-clone-a-hard-drive-with-bad-
sectors-using-ddrescue-t133.html
(I also have live dvd versions of Debianlive9.4.0 Cinnamon and Ubuntu-
18.04-desktop-amd64, which I've tried, but like Knoppix best.)
Post by Paul
The package likely comes from Debian, and you could check
your version of ddrescue as well. Mine is "version 1.22
of GNU ddrescue".
ddrescue -V
I doubt it's highly sensitive to version, but I don't
want to wander too far off target.
Mine is also version 1.22, as shown on the copy/paste of the ddrescue
report.
Post by Paul
And you have the basic form right, except the mapfile.
ddrescue -f /dev/sda /dev/sdf ~/mymapfile.txt
You can use "whoami" to check what account you
are using currently. On Knoppix, this is likely
"root", so sudo is not needed. On Ubuntu, you
would use...
I will have to check with "whoami" later, but I have been using sudo,
perhaps unnecessarily. I think I do remember that Knoppix logs me to
automatically right to the root.
Post by Paul
sudo ddrescue -f /dev/sda /dev/sdf ~/mymapfile.txt
**********
ddrescue can copy from a device to a device, a device to an image file,
an image file to a device. In this example (one I tested), I transferred
a device to an image file.
sudo ddrescue -S -b8M /dev/sdb /mount/external/backup/sdb.raw
/mount/external/backup/sdb.log
Post by Paul
The -S in that example, makes "sdb.raw" a "sparse" file, which
means that sectors full of zeros need not be recorded using
disk surface. Instead, a table of present or missing sectors
is kept, to conserve space. This only makes sense for disks
that are mostly full of zeros to start with. Normal disks
don't have an excess of sectors-full-of-zeros, so this -S
option will not help you.
The -b8M on the version I was using, was supposed to set the
transfer size. Yet, the manual page says it sets the sector
size. Which isn't the same thing. A lot of conventional
disks support 512 byte sectors. A "512n" disk is native,
and externally visible and internal representation are
both the same. A 512n disk is "512,512".
A 512e disk (quite common in 2018), is 512 bytes externally
(emulated) for compatibility, while inside the drive, the
storage is done using 4096 sectors. This 512e disk
would be "512,4096". This is not a preferred option for
WinXP, but Vista+ OSes align on 1MB boundaries, so the
4096 sector size aligns with the 1MB boundaries. Most
cluster operations on Vista+ then align with the
internal representation, for maximum efficiency.
The third type is not common. A 4Kn disk is "4096,4096"
disk. There are few tools to use with it (partition management
is hopeless). Windows 10 I think, will support a 4K sector,
so Windows 10 could see one. But my recommendation to people,
is to stay far away from these, unless you want your
computer usage with them to be one continuous experiment
and breadcrumb exercise.
So the only part of my command that doesn't make a lot
of sense, is the -b8M. Does it set the maximum transfer
size ? Or does it set a sector size ? The program should
be able to read the information, just the same way that
fdisk does.
sudo fdisk /dev/sdb
If you select "p" for print, then "q" for quit,
there's a line near the beginning that shows the
512n, 512e, 4Kn nature of the drive. The internal and
external sector sizes are shown.
In any case, this is the syntax I'd be trying. The -b8M
may speed up the trial speed. The claim I read, is
the transfer size is "adaptive" and the command adjusts
the transfer size per command, to optimize bandwidth.
That's what the -b was supposed to do, according to the
documentation I was reading at one time.
ddrescue -b8M /dev/sda /dev/sdf ~/mymapfile.txt
Some more examples here.
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/17087/clone-whole-partition-or-
hard-drive-to-a-sparse-file
Post by Paul
*******
You showed me a result before with HDTune, which is
consistent with your ddrescue result.
And both results make no sense :-/
There is something *weird* about that Mac disk.
An ATA disk will *not* be visible, if it has internal
troubles. The ATA disk spins up, and loads the heads onto
the platter, using a relatively small firmware loader
on the controller board.
The full ATA command set, is a larger chunk of code in
the Service Area of the platter. Otherwise known as
"Sector -1" because it is in an area that ordinary users
cannot access. Once the SA is loaded, the drive is ready
to accept ATA commands from the SATA bus.
The first command sent by the BIOS, is an "identify yourself".
And the returning of a single packet with "ST3500418..."
tells you that a SATA packet was eventually received
error free from the drive.
I see. Didn't know that. So that's why you say something's weird.
Post by Paul
And we know enough of the drive works, that HDTune plays with
it in Windows.
But we also know, that an HDTune error scan, returns nothing
but red blocks. How is that possible ? How can the surface
be inaccessible like that, when we know the SA loaded
(a couple megabytes), and the drive came up ?
So the SA area on the HD was supposedly scanned by HDTune, but returned as
a red block?
Post by Paul
There is something about this disk, I just don't understand.
The only other breadcrumb I have for you, is certain
Macs years ago, needed the Spread Spectrum jumper
inserted on the back of the drive. Some brands of
drives have four pins. (Note that there can be *several*
four pin blocks, and you have to be careful to pick the
correct one.)
X X X X
Force150 SpreadSpectrum
The Force150 jumper is only needed for VIA chipsets
(something Apple isn't likely to use). The SpreadSpectrum
on the other hand, when you insert that jumper, it defeats
SpreadSpectrum clock modulation on the cable.
The purpose of SpreadSpectrum, is to defeat FCC15 testing.
It spreads the emissions to a slightly broader peak, so
hardware can pass FCC testing. It doesn't mean that the
device interferes any less with other radio equipment.
A very small number of interface chips, cannot track the
triangle wave modulation of SS. Normally, you'd use a PLL
or DLL or training clock, to come up with a scheme so you
can read packets while the clock rate continuously changes.
Some Apple chip could not do this at the time, and drives
connected to that Apple device, needed the SS jumper to
be inserted.
But other than that observation, I don't understand
how the entire surface of the disk is inaccessible,
while the SA reads fine and the drive comes up.
Would some service person have changed the jumper
state, and if so, why ?
Jumpers on those drives are probably 2mm type. There are
two jumper caps - 0.1" jumpers and 2mm jumpers, and one
type doesn't fit the other spacing all that well. I
had to look in my basement, in an old disk enclosure
product box, for a bag of ten 2mm jumpers I had. And
I've been using those over the years for stuff like
this.
I tried running the part number
ST3500418ASQ
only to find this gibberish about a "thermal sensor".
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/21-5-27-imac-hd-replacement.841205/
Some more here. These guys are usually pretty good at this
stuff (they tap into other forums to get the scoop
on "non-standard" crap).
https://blog.macsales.com/10206-further-explained-apples-imac-2011-
model-hard-drive-restrictions
Post by Paul
Now, does that have anything electrically to do with the
drive ? Is it just the controller sensor, pinned out
to a header, so the controller can take external
temp readings ?
That should have nothing to do with reading data
from the drive. Whereas Spread Spectrum could.
I can't find that exact part number on the Seagate site.
It could be considered an OEM special just for Apple.
I haven't been able to find any dmesg Linux boot
cycles for that device, giving particulars. And the
Mac boot log is useless.
*******
Note the usage of branded firmware on the controller board. WTF?
http://firmware.hddsurgery.com/?manufacturer=Seagate&family=Pharaoh
ST3500418ASQ AP24 Pharaoh 5VM59RXH 2016-07-16
ST3500418AS CC37 Pharaoh 6VM66MWD 2016-07-16
The label on my 418AS drive shows it is running CC46, but
you can see the basic idea. That the "Apple OEM" drive
runs "APxx" firmware for some reason (maybe it does head park
or spins slower when idle or something, like a more aggressive
power management scheme).
So far, no evidence any of this affects reading data
from the drive.
I didn't rush this post off to you, because I suspect
we won't be getting any ddrescue data, until we figure
out what else isn't standard about the drive. I can't find
enough discussions in threads on the Internet about the
drive, to figure it out.
Perhaps you could take a picture of your hard drive or
at least examine it for differences to this.
https://s33.postimg.cc/6loshhxxb/ST3500418.gif
Even if the drive was encrypted, it should still read
without CRC errors. Why is the *whole* surface unreadable.
It's not a failure.
Paul
Here's a pic of the drive and it's pins. The drive is an OEM made for
Apple, and there is a jumper block, but there is no jumper.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/3h3j12g8s/
I don't see any thermistor or connector with six pins (two
of which are wired) in the picture. But the drive is
running Apple firmware. Which might be nothing more
than aggressive spindown code (i.e. most of the ROM
is likely to be the same code as retail 418AS drives).
In the manual here for "Seatools For Windows", you could
try the "Short Drive Self Check". Don't use the "Fix All",
as that appears to be an attempt to get reallocations
going, and that's not going to work. You can get
"Seatools For Windows" from the Seagate site.
https://www.seagate.com/files/www-content/support-
content/downloads/seatools/_shared/downloads/pdf/SeaTools-for-windows-en-
us.pdf
Post by Paul
If you press F8, apparently it offers the "Long Drive Self Check"
which is not in that picture. An older version of Seatools
(the one I have here), just put the short and long entries
in the menu, without needing to press a function key.
It's almost like your drive has had a data structure corruption.
The Service Area not only holds firmware which is loaded
into RAM, but it also holds data structures. Included
in those data structures, is the reallocation table.
But in the past, a typical situation is, when the data structure
thing is broken, the drive just "bricks". Normally, any
kind of problem with data structure, makes toast out
of the drive.
Other than that, I'm at a loss to explain how the
drive is able to read the Service Area, but cannot
read any other sector. It implies a firmware problem
of some sort. A Google search isn't picking up a
trend on that drive. There have been products
in the past, with a very strong theme, such as
failure exactly 30 days after the user bought
the drive.
The ATA standard allows downloading of drive firmware
into drive RAM (for usage during the current session).
A second command allows "committing" a firmware
download to the Service Area, making the firmware
permanent (equivalent to flashing). The drive
has a bootstrap routine stored in onboard flash.
The majority of the code (the part that parses ATA
commands and decides what to do), is stored in the
Service Area firmware store.
Your drive doesn't seem to have a hardware failure.
Something happens to it, after reading the Service
Area and it starts running the regular code to accept
input commands.
I'm hoping that when you run the SMART short test,
you'll get additional information. Since the main
code body is running at that time though, the SMART
might end up seeing all the CRC errors that the OS
sees.
Summary: Likely needs a Data Recovery company, unless
an identified issue with the drive is recorded
somewhere in Google. And I only see "normal"
failures for the drive at the moment. Mine,
for example, has a high reallocation count (400+).
Opening the HDA may not be necessary to fix
this, but blowing away the reallocation table
will "shred" the data (some files could end up
with sectors that don't belong there).
That drive model, varies from heaven to hell :-)
This is another one of my 418AS drives, which runs
continuously on this computer. This is probably the
second-longest-lived drive I've ever dealt with. The
record holder was 60,000 hours (a drive at work).
Considering the field statistics for this drive
model, how is this possible ???
https://s33.postimg.cc/mmiax893z/my_good_st3500418as.gif
Paul
I tried both SeaTools for Windows, and SeaTools for DOS. Both reported
failures.

SeaTools for Windows:
The Short Test keept failing at 14% to 21% while performing 'random reads'.

(I tested my Win7 OS drive just to be sure SeRTools was working, and the OS
disk passed all Short Test pricesses 100%).


SeaTools for DOS:
I burned an .iso and booted SeaTools for DOS. Here's the results (similar to
the Windows version):
https://imgur.com/a/yLHf0Ca
Paul
2018-07-27 08:04:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boris
I tried both SeaTools for Windows, and SeaTools for DOS. Both reported
failures.
The Short Test keept failing at 14% to 21% while performing 'random reads'.
(I tested my Win7 OS drive just to be sure SeRTools was working, and the OS
disk passed all Short Test pricesses 100%).
I burned an .iso and booted SeaTools for DOS. Here's the results (similar to
https://imgur.com/a/yLHf0Ca
You can practice your ddrescue arts, now that
you have a worthy candidate in front of you.

We know it gets 0.11% of the drive on the first pass.

It would be interesting to run a second pass with
one retry (-r 1) and see what total percentage of the
drive is completed after that.

My guess is, you're not getting any files back.

If the 0.11% of the drive was contiguous sectors,
you could use Photorec or Recuva or scavengers
of that nature. You would want the /dev/sdg copy drive
to be zeroed out first, before ddrescue, if you
planned on running Photorec afterwards
against the copy of the drive. Photorec would scan
the 99.89% empty part of the sdg drive a lot
faster if the unrecovered sectors contain zeros. That's
one reason for cleaning /dev/sdg before using
it. Either diskpart in Windows and "clean all"
or dd from /dev/zero onto /dev/sdg in Linux
to clean it.

Say about 3 hours a step, 12 hours total.

dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdg bs=221184 count=2261049
ddrescue -f /dev/sdb /dev/sdg mapfile
ddrescue -r 1 -f /dev/sdb /dev/sdg mapfile
photorec [on /dev/sdg]

Then review the results and see if you made
it to even 0.22% after the "-r 1" run.

You're practicing your arts, for the day that
you have a drive that's only missing a track or two...
You don't normally get drives this sick, to
practice on. I have *no* drives with the right
level of sickness here, to do ddrescue testing.
Any drive here that was sick, is dead now. That's
why your drive is so amazing. How can a 99.89%
dead drive still spin ?

Do you hear a lot of "clunking" or "clicking" come
from the drive during the ddrescue run ? This
would imply perhaps, loss of embedded servo.
Again, how can the servo wedges on each track
be working, when the data is so messed up ?
Bad controller board ? The servo wedges presumably
have enough info to tell the drive it's on the right
cylinder. If the platter surface was rusting,
it should take out the servo areas on each platter
too, and the drive should "click like crazy" because
it can't see where the heads have gone.

Paul

Boris
2018-07-26 21:54:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Huge snip
Post by Paul
Well, if you absolutely cannot get the table with smartctl
in Linux, go back to windows and use the Health tab
of HDTune 2.55.
http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe
While Linux could be mis-interpreting some parameters
in SMART, it's possible the disk itself has some way
of indicating imminent failure after "doing the short
test" on its own. It could be a failure indicated by
short test, rather than an analysis of the SMART
parameter table to reach the same conclusion.
You really need to get working on your ddrescue/gddrescue.
And try and get as much data off the disk as possible.
Perhaps the active surface of the disk is toast, but
you'll discover that when you try. The thing is, the
disk would not have responded, unless the disk heads
loaded and the controller was able to read the
Service Area. So *some* portion of the platters
is readable. But we don't know how much.
Paul
I ran HDTune 2.55 a few weeks ago with the MAC HD USB tethered. The
https://postimg.cc/gallery/25g6b1tdo/
The Health Tab displayed nothing for the MAC HD..
At the same time, to be sure HDTune was working correctly, I applied
HDTune 2.55 to my Windows OS disk, and it reported ok on all tabs but
the
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Health Tab, which displayed nothing.
Yesterday, with the MAC HD connected directly to the SATA
motherboard
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
connection, HDTune recognized all drives on my system, except for the
MAC
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
HD.
I'm not going to dick around any longer trying to get S.M.A.R.T.
dats.
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
I'm going to see what I can do with imaging the MAC HD to another
hard
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
drive.
It should have worked.
But ddrescue is where you have to go, and quickly.
The details don't matter any more, just the objective matters.
Save the sectors before it is too late.
Paul
So the next step was to try ddrescue. I remembered Frank Slootweg (in
"sda and sdb dependent on the sequence in which you connect the
original disk and the to-be-copied-to disk?"
I tested this, and discovered this is true, that the device
designation
Post by Boris
is
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
dependent on order of connection. With internal, USB flash, and USB
external drives attached, the sdX designations were different than if
only
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
the two disks I wanted to use were connected. Also, the designations
were
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
different depending on the order of connection. I guess Linux orders
them
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
in order of discovery.
I disconnected all disks (including the Win7 OS disk, not wanting to
blow
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
it up in error) and loaded up Knoppix. I then connected the MAC HD
and
Post by Boris
a
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
new Western Digital Passport 1TB HD.
MAC HD = sda (source, 500GB)
Passport HD = sdf (destination, 1TB)
Linusx Disks told me that the Passport drive was mounted at
/media/sdf1
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
I tried to run ddrescue with a log file, but couldn't get the syntax
ddrescue: Mapfile exists and is not a regular file.
GNU ddrescue 1.22
ipos: 500107 MB, non-trimmed: 0 B, current rate: 0
B/s
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
opos: 500107 MB, non-scraped: 0 B, average rate: 0
B/s
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
non-tried: 0 B, bad-sector: 500107 MB, error rate: 17313
kB/s
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
rescued: 0 B, bad areas: 1, run time: 2h 55m
25s
n/a
n/a
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Finished
For the first few minutes, there was a line that said someting about
Trials 5. I thought this would last till the end of the run, but it
disappeared shortly, so I wasn't able to copy/paste it here.
I then logged on to the Passport drive...no changes.
Boris
The mapfile should be a text file, not a partition.
You transfer a whole-disk-identifier to a whole-disk-identifier,
to do device to device cloning. You got that part right.
/dev/sda /dev/sdf
The third item in the list, should be a text file. Perhaps that's
the map file they refer to.
KNOPPIX_V8.1-2017-09-05-EN.iso 4,553,826,304 bytes
Which one do you have ?
Exactly the same: Knoppix v8.1-2017-09-05, 4,553,826,304 bytes
This is where I found link to Knoppix, and the instructions on using this
https://www.data-medics.com/forum/how-to-clone-a-hard-drive-with-bad-
sectors-using-ddrescue-t133.html
(I also have live dvd versions of Debianlive9.4.0 Cinnamon and Ubuntu-
18.04-desktop-amd64, which I've tried, but like Knoppix best.)
Post by Paul
The package likely comes from Debian, and you could check
your version of ddrescue as well. Mine is "version 1.22
of GNU ddrescue".
ddrescue -V
I doubt it's highly sensitive to version, but I don't
want to wander too far off target.
Mine is also version 1.22, as shown on the copy/paste of the ddrescue
report.
Post by Paul
And you have the basic form right, except the mapfile.
ddrescue -f /dev/sda /dev/sdf ~/mymapfile.txt
You can use "whoami" to check what account you
are using currently. On Knoppix, this is likely
"root", so sudo is not needed. On Ubuntu, you
would use...
I will have to check with "whoami" later, but I have been using sudo,
perhaps unnecessarily. I think I do remember that Knoppix logs me to
automatically right to the root.
Post by Paul
sudo ddrescue -f /dev/sda /dev/sdf ~/mymapfile.txt
**********
ddrescue can copy from a device to a device, a device to an image file,
an image file to a device. In this example (one I tested), I
transferred
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
a device to an image file.
sudo ddrescue -S -b8M /dev/sdb /mount/external/backup/sdb.raw
/mount/external/backup/sdb.log
Post by Paul
The -S in that example, makes "sdb.raw" a "sparse" file, which
means that sectors full of zeros need not be recorded using
disk surface. Instead, a table of present or missing sectors
is kept, to conserve space. This only makes sense for disks
that are mostly full of zeros to start with. Normal disks
don't have an excess of sectors-full-of-zeros, so this -S
option will not help you.
The -b8M on the version I was using, was supposed to set the
transfer size. Yet, the manual page says it sets the sector
size. Which isn't the same thing. A lot of conventional
disks support 512 byte sectors. A "512n" disk is native,
and externally visible and internal representation are
both the same. A 512n disk is "512,512".
A 512e disk (quite common in 2018), is 512 bytes externally
(emulated) for compatibility, while inside the drive, the
storage is done using 4096 sectors. This 512e disk
would be "512,4096". This is not a preferred option for
WinXP, but Vista+ OSes align on 1MB boundaries, so the
4096 sector size aligns with the 1MB boundaries. Most
cluster operations on Vista+ then align with the
internal representation, for maximum efficiency.
The third type is not common. A 4Kn disk is "4096,4096"
disk. There are few tools to use with it (partition management
is hopeless). Windows 10 I think, will support a 4K sector,
so Windows 10 could see one. But my recommendation to people,
is to stay far away from these, unless you want your
computer usage with them to be one continuous experiment
and breadcrumb exercise.
So the only part of my command that doesn't make a lot
of sense, is the -b8M. Does it set the maximum transfer
size ? Or does it set a sector size ? The program should
be able to read the information, just the same way that
fdisk does.
sudo fdisk /dev/sdb
If you select "p" for print, then "q" for quit,
there's a line near the beginning that shows the
512n, 512e, 4Kn nature of the drive. The internal and
external sector sizes are shown.
In any case, this is the syntax I'd be trying. The -b8M
may speed up the trial speed. The claim I read, is
the transfer size is "adaptive" and the command adjusts
the transfer size per command, to optimize bandwidth.
That's what the -b was supposed to do, according to the
documentation I was reading at one time.
ddrescue -b8M /dev/sda /dev/sdf ~/mymapfile.txt
Some more examples here.
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/17087/clone-whole-partition-
or-
Post by Boris
hard-drive-to-a-sparse-file
Post by Paul
*******
You showed me a result before with HDTune, which is
consistent with your ddrescue result.
And both results make no sense :-/
There is something *weird* about that Mac disk.
An ATA disk will *not* be visible, if it has internal
troubles. The ATA disk spins up, and loads the heads onto
the platter, using a relatively small firmware loader
on the controller board.
The full ATA command set, is a larger chunk of code in
the Service Area of the platter. Otherwise known as
"Sector -1" because it is in an area that ordinary users
cannot access. Once the SA is loaded, the drive is ready
to accept ATA commands from the SATA bus.
The first command sent by the BIOS, is an "identify yourself".
And the returning of a single packet with "ST3500418..."
tells you that a SATA packet was eventually received
error free from the drive.
I see. Didn't know that. So that's why you say something's weird.
Post by Paul
And we know enough of the drive works, that HDTune plays with
it in Windows.
But we also know, that an HDTune error scan, returns nothing
but red blocks. How is that possible ? How can the surface
be inaccessible like that, when we know the SA loaded
(a couple megabytes), and the drive came up ?
So the SA area on the HD was supposedly scanned by HDTune, but returned as
a red block?
Post by Paul
There is something about this disk, I just don't understand.
The only other breadcrumb I have for you, is certain
Macs years ago, needed the Spread Spectrum jumper
inserted on the back of the drive. Some brands of
drives have four pins. (Note that there can be *several*
four pin blocks, and you have to be careful to pick the
correct one.)
X X X X
Force150 SpreadSpectrum
The Force150 jumper is only needed for VIA chipsets
(something Apple isn't likely to use). The SpreadSpectrum
on the other hand, when you insert that jumper, it defeats
SpreadSpectrum clock modulation on the cable.
The purpose of SpreadSpectrum, is to defeat FCC15 testing.
It spreads the emissions to a slightly broader peak, so
hardware can pass FCC testing. It doesn't mean that the
device interferes any less with other radio equipment.
A very small number of interface chips, cannot track the
triangle wave modulation of SS. Normally, you'd use a PLL
or DLL or training clock, to come up with a scheme so you
can read packets while the clock rate continuously changes.
Some Apple chip could not do this at the time, and drives
connected to that Apple device, needed the SS jumper to
be inserted.
But other than that observation, I don't understand
how the entire surface of the disk is inaccessible,
while the SA reads fine and the drive comes up.
Would some service person have changed the jumper
state, and if so, why ?
Jumpers on those drives are probably 2mm type. There are
two jumper caps - 0.1" jumpers and 2mm jumpers, and one
type doesn't fit the other spacing all that well. I
had to look in my basement, in an old disk enclosure
product box, for a bag of ten 2mm jumpers I had. And
I've been using those over the years for stuff like
this.
I tried running the part number
ST3500418ASQ
only to find this gibberish about a "thermal sensor".
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/21-5-27-imac-hd-
replacement.841205/
Post by Boris
Post by Paul
Some more here. These guys are usually pretty good at this
stuff (they tap into other forums to get the scoop
on "non-standard" crap).
https://blog.macsales.com/10206-further-explained-apples-imac-2011-
model-hard-drive-restrictions
Post by Paul
Now, does that have anything electrically to do with the
drive ? Is it just the controller sensor, pinned out
to a header, so the controller can take external
temp readings ?
That should have nothing to do with reading data
from the drive. Whereas Spread Spectrum could.
I can't find that exact part number on the Seagate site.
It could be considered an OEM special just for Apple.
I haven't been able to find any dmesg Linux boot
cycles for that device, giving particulars. And the
Mac boot log is useless.
*******
Note the usage of branded firmware on the controller board. WTF?
http://firmware.hddsurgery.com/?manufacturer=Seagate&family=Pharaoh
ST3500418ASQ AP24 Pharaoh 5VM59RXH 2016-07-16
ST3500418AS CC37 Pharaoh 6VM66MWD 2016-07-16
The label on my 418AS drive shows it is running CC46, but
you can see the basic idea. That the "Apple OEM" drive
runs "APxx" firmware for some reason (maybe it does head park
or spins slower when idle or something, like a more aggressive
power management scheme).
So far, no evidence any of this affects reading data
from the drive.
I didn't rush this post off to you, because I suspect
we won't be getting any ddrescue data, until we figure
out what else isn't standard about the drive. I can't find
enough discussions in threads on the Internet about the
drive, to figure it out.
Perhaps you could take a picture of your hard drive or
at least examine it for differences to this.
https://s33.postimg.cc/6loshhxxb/ST3500418.gif
Even if the drive was encrypted, it should still read
without CRC errors. Why is the *whole* surface unreadable.
It's not a failure.
Paul
Here's a pic of the drive and it's pins. The drive is an OEM made for
Apple, and there is a jumper block, but there is no jumper.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/3h3j12g8s/
I finally got the command correct for Ubuntu v8.1-2017-09-05, running
ddrescue v1.22. It seems that Ubuntu will only write the mapfile (log) to
it's root, and it must be named 'mapfile', regardless of what the
instructions show. Here's what worked, and the results:

***@Microknoppix:~$ sudo ddrescue -f /dev/sdb /dev/sdg mapfile
GNU ddrescue 1.22
ipos: 500107 MB, non-trimmed: 0 B, current rate: 0 B/s
opos: 500107 MB, non-scraped: 0 B, average rate: 55291 B/s
non-tried: 0 B, bad-sector: 499533 MB, error rate: 39174 kB/s
rescued: 574750 kB, bad areas: 1, run time: 2h 53m 14s
pct rescued: 0.11%, read errors:983272977, remaining time: n/a
time since last successful read: 2h 52m 45s
Finished
***@Microknoppix:~$

Ironically, I forgot to record the mapfile. But, I'm not going to run the
scan again, at least not before posting this; it takes almost three hours
to run.
Paul
2018-07-27 00:38:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boris
I finally got the command correct for Ubuntu v8.1-2017-09-05, running
ddrescue v1.22. It seems that Ubuntu will only write the mapfile (log) to
it's root, and it must be named 'mapfile', regardless of what the
GNU ddrescue 1.22
ipos: 500107 MB, non-trimmed: 0 B, current rate: 0 B/s
opos: 500107 MB, non-scraped: 0 B, average rate: 55291 B/s
non-tried: 0 B, bad-sector: 499533 MB, error rate: 39174 kB/s
rescued: 574750 kB, bad areas: 1, run time: 2h 53m 14s
pct rescued: 0.11%, read errors:983272977, remaining time: n/a
time since last successful read: 2h 52m 45s
Finished
Ironically, I forgot to record the mapfile. But, I'm not going to run the
scan again, at least not before posting this; it takes almost three hours
to run.
Naughty :-)

You *need* that mapfile, in case multiple runs are needed to
get more of the sectors. That's what the mapfile is for, to
maintain continuity from one run to the next. The mapfile is
updated on each run, with more good news.

Now, I was always pretty bad at maths. What exactly are
those results telling us ? That's yet another reason
why you need the mapfile, as it contains additional
information that can be compared to the above. Your
rescued data is 0.574GB if 500GB. You may have
spent 3 hours, but you got 0.11% of the data. That
means it will take 3000 hours to get the whole disk
back. I want the enormity of that to sink in. But maybe
I'm bad at maths.

The mapfile in such a case could be huge, if the recovered
data was a sector here and a sector there. It would chop
the disk up into many sections, which makes the mapfile larger.
If the condition of a bunch of sectors next to one
another is the same, the mapfile can contain a notation
that says how big the chunk is, whether it's good or
bad. The developers put some effort into making the
notation efficient.

At the current rate, it will take 3000 hours to complete.
But of course we know that's not true. Some portions of that
data is never coming back. And what is happening,
is you're spending 15 seconds on each unreadable
sector. (That's a typical timeout value, allowing
a ton of attempts to read the sector, by the
hard drive controller.) If you had a WDC RE Raid drive
with TLER (time limited error recovery), the timeout
is 5 to 7 seconds or so, somewhere in that ballpark.
(Only the RE drives have TLER.)

Now, back to work :-)

What you want to do it.

1) Do one run.
2) Take a snapshot of the amount recovered (0.11%
in this case), plus keep a copy of the mapfile for
reference.
3) Look up the manual page for how you're supposed
to run subsequent commands. You can try a reasonable
retry count, like one retry maybe, which changes the
time per sector from 15 seconds to 30 seconds.

ddrescue -r 1 -f /dev/sdb /dev/sdg mapfile

4) Do your second (-r 1) run. This will update the mapfile,
update the amount recovered.
5) If the trend looks good, if the second run with
a bit of a retry count recovered a lot more data
than the first run, you can then consider whether
to throw in the towel at that point, or continue
on. Each run allows you to refine your extrapolation
of the time to completion.

The fact 0.11% came back, also tells you that for some
reason, the surface is a mess. I was willing to accept
some kind of crazy firmware problem was causing 0%
to come back. But instead, it looks like a crazy
surface problem is allowing 0.11% to come back.

I *don't* understand why that disk isn't bricked!!!

How can that high a percentage of the drive be bad,
and the Service Area be intact ? It still makes no sense.

The manual page doesn't seem to define the terms it
uses (trimmed, scraped).

*******

The /dev/sdg drive should really be zeroed before
you begin. But since you've recovered so little
data on your first run, the following isn't
a priority.

In Windows (administrator command prompt), you'd
want to zero the /dev/sdg disk. You have to figure
out which Windows disk number that is, before
selecting a disk number.

diskpart
list disk
select disk 2
clean all
exit

In Linux, you could try this for your 500107862016
byte drive. The Block Size parameter should be
a multiple of 512 bytes, and 221184 is 432 sectors.

dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdg bs=221184 count=2261049

I have a ST3500418AS running online on this machine,
which is why I can get the number. To get the
number for yourself, in Linux, you can use...

fdisk /dev/sdg
p
q

which should print the exact size of the disk in bytes.

If you weren't on Knoppix, you might need
"sudo fdisk /dev/sdg" as the command needs root
permissions.

Once the disk is zeroed, you can do your first ddrescue
run over again, and build a new mapfile.

You don't have to zero the output drive if you
don't want to. It's just easier later, if you're
using HxD hex editor and skimming through /dev/sdg,
you'll be able to see all those zeros where ddrescue
hasn't been able to read the source disk yet
and copy stuff over the zeros. The zeros are
a marker in a sense.

I think after two runs, you'll be in a good position
to give your 3000 hour runtime estimate to get the
whole thing :-/

I don't know what a data recovery company could do
for a disk like this. The heads seem to be intact.
The SA works. It's rotating. The heads load.
How can you fix the surface ??? Dunno.

Paul
Boris
2018-07-10 00:53:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by pjp
Post by Boris
Post by Frank Slootweg
[...]
Post by Boris
By now I have three versions of Linux Live DVDs I've tried them all.
But, I still have not imaged the corrupt Mac HD. I'm don't trust
myself enough yet to be sure I won't completely corrupt the Mac HD, if
it's not already fully corrupt, let alone one of my own HDs.
Considering you have little to no Linux experience, it's (IMO) rather/
too risky to use Linux for this delicate and important data recovery
attempt.
If I were in your situation, I would first try a disk-cloning
operation on your Windows system, before considering to try unknown
Linux territory.
In case you did not see it, here's part of my earlier response to
<quote>
Thinking of sector-by-sector copying, couldn't Macrium Reflect FREE's
disk-cloning function be used as an alternative?
"Perform a Forensic Sector Copy. This option will copy all sectors from
the source disk, whether they are is use or not."
Macrium Reflect FREE would both be easier - no Linux boot disk needed
- and safer - easier to see which is the real source/original disk and
which is the to-be-copied-to disk.
</quote>
Of course any other (Windows-based) disk-cloning software - such as
Acronis - can be used instead of Macrium Reflect FREE.
Please let me know if you need more help with this [1], but note that
I'll be absent after Saturday.
[1] I've not used the Macrium Reflect FREE disk-cloning function and
don't have a HFS+ disk to experiment with, but I have experience with
Macrium Reflect FREE and disk imaging / disk cloning in general.
Hi, Frank,
I was under the impression that extFat partition is supported by both
OS's. Why not just use a Mac to copy the files to such a formatted disk
and then read them in Windows?
Actually, I was thinking about just that. Problem is that the only people
I know that have Apple machines (MacBookPro), I won't be seeing for a
month or so.
Frank Slootweg
2018-07-06 19:41:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by Boris
Post by Frank Slootweg
[...]
[N.B. Others have already commented on the need for the Windows system
to 'see' the disk at all, i.e. as a disk, not (yet) the filesystem(s) on
the disk, so I'll skip that.]
Post by Boris
She has not yet installed HFS+/HFSExplorer.
In a similar situation - also a daughter :-) - I (successfully) used
<https://www.paragon-software.com/home/hfs-windows/#>
'Paragon HFS+ for Windows' is payware, but has a free 10-day trial,
which should be enough.
Paragon has also a product for APFS filesystems (see Paul's responses).
According to my notes, I had more luck with 'Paragon HFS+ for Windows'
than with 'HFSExplorer' (<http://www.catacombae.org/hfsexplorer>).
'HFSExplorer' is more limited/basic than 'Paragon HFS+ for Windows',
but it might be enough for your situation.
Good luck with your recovery efforts.
Hi,
Thanks to all that replied.
Frank, glad you were able to do what we have not been able to do, yet.
My daughter and I were finally able to get together, and I got more
information from her. First, I don't know why the motherboard was
deemed dead by the Apple geniuses, even though they said they did
'tests' on it, because it is not. And I don't know why my daughter
was not able to get the iMac to even sound like it was on, let alone
show anyting, even POST, on the screen. I suspect that the iMac may
have been plugged into a wall outlet that was not hot unless the
wall switch was on.
The iMac did turn on, but had the spinning circle of death. Some
readings say that this could be due to an upgrade in progress that
was aborted. My daughter doesn't remember. That was five years
ago.
There are two parts to the story of what we accomplished/didn't accomplish.
1) Now that the iMac is not completely dead, let's see what we can
find on the hard drive.
With the original hard drive put back in the machine, the iMac did
turn on, with the spinning circle of death. Well, at leasat there's
something going on. We found the iOS disc, and printed on the disc
itself it said to insert disc, power down, power up, 'press C'
after turning on power. This should bring up the disc utilities
allowing you to recover/install anew. Ok, let's try that.
This was a little more difficult than expected, because we found a
music cd was in the Super Drive. Of course we couldn't eject it,
because the iOS woundn't load. We had to remove the Super Drive,
and then use a putty knife to remove the music cd. Once out, we put
the Super Drive back in the machine, and inserted the iOS disc, and
pressed C on the Apple keyboard.
Oops, the original Apple keyboard (bluetooth) was unusable because
after five years of non-use, with the battery still in it, leaky
alkaline build up had cemented the battery compartment shut to the
point where heavy duty twisting with a large blade flat tip
screwdriver wouln't budget the battery compartment door one mm. I
had plenty of extra USB keyboards, which we tried, but none worked.
Down to BestBuy to get a cheap USB keyboard that was Apple
compatible. BestBuy's in-house brand, Insigna for $20, worked.
Pressing the C key while the machine was booting did bring up the
disk utilities most of the time. When it did, we went as far into
it as we could to explore the menus without going the the point of
no return. But, the menus that appeared were not what the
instructions said would appear. We backed out because we wanted to
try to move/copy the pictures/videos from the drive more that
recover/reinstall, which could wipe out the files we wanted to
move/copy.
2) So much for trying to read the hard drive while installed in the machine.
Let's see about moving/copying files from the original hard drive to
my daughter's HP laptop.
We removed the Apple hard drive and installed HFS+ along with Java,
on my daughgter's HP Win10 laptop, and connected it to the laptop,
and we could intermittently access the hard drive. The hard drive
did show up in disk manager, but not in Windows Explorer. We did
not expect it to show up in any Windows window. It did show up in
HFS Explorer, but when we tried to extract a file, we'd get a few
files extracted to the HP, but then a Java error would appear, and
the process halted. We were never able to move/copy more than a few
https://postimg.cc/image/l2d72vcnf/
Next, I loaded Paragon's HFS+ for Windows on to my Win7 desktop, and
connected the Apple hard drive. This time, the Apple hard drive
https://postimg.cc/image/l3n4w946j/
But see where it says 'restart the service'? If I pressed that
https://postimg.cc/gallery/g75huiu4/
(Ignore file names, for some reason file names didn't carry over to
postimg correctly)
If I pressed the Close button on the Macintosh HD screen, I was sent
back to 'restart service'.
I will try some more later this week.
Thanks for reading this far.
To get past the I/O error, you could try gddrescue from a
Linux LiveCD.
Pardon my French######Dutch, but I didn't see Boris mentioning any
*I/O* errors, only 'errors'/messages from Paragon HFS+ for Windows. Am I
overlooking something?
Post by Paul
What that does, is a sector-by-sector copy of the data from
a bad drive, to a new 500GB drive.
The gddrescue program also supports multiple runs. If it
misses sectors on a first pass, it can pick them up on a
second or third pass.
sudo gddrescue if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb
Aren't sda and sdb dependent on the sequence in which you connect the
original disk and the to-be-copied-to disk?

If source (if=) and destination (of=) are the wrong way around, Boris
will blow up his daughter's original disk, instead of making a copy.

Thinking of sector-by-sector copying, couldn't Macrium Reflect FREE's
disk-cloning function be used as an alternative?

The disk-cloning function has in Advanced Options:

"Perform a Forensic Sector Copy. This option will copy all sectors from
the source disk, whether they are is use or not."

Macrium Reflect FREE would both be easier - no Linux boot disk needed
- and safer - easier to see which is the real source/original disk and
which is the to-be-copied-to disk.

[Rest left for completeness:]
Post by Paul
Once the majority of the disk is captured, now you have a
platform for running your recovery procedures on.
Using gddrescue, you can now copy the 500GB disk drive,
into a 500GB image file. As the sector transfers are guaranteed
to succeed (from known-good /dev/sdb hard drive). You can also
"pipe" the standard output into a compressor like gzip. This
is your "backup image", in case /dev/sdb is ruined by a subsequent
Disk First Aid operation or similar.
sudo gddrescue if=/dev/sdb of=- | gzip ....
This is the two disk data recovery procedure I try
to sell here. One disk is mechanically sound, and
is then used to avoid any "I/O errors" like the ones
you've been getting. The second disk has to be
big enough to hold a copy of the working disk,
plus any files from Photorec, Recuva, or other
scavenger procedures.
The second disk is just in case you ruin the working disk
(/dev/sdb) with a recovery procedure.
The purpose of using multiple software platforms, is
to avoid paying a dime for software. Until
the writing is on the wall.
Other than that, there was Alsoft DiskWarrior.
I bought a copy when I got my last Mac, as
"just in case" software. As that's what you were
supposed to do. Disk First Aid wasn't always
the tool of choice. You would only attempt to use
a thing like that, using the "healthy" disk drive (sdb)
as a substitute for the one with the I/O error
problem.
https://s22.postimg.cc/cvvyyz14x/disk_first_aid_from_macosx_installer_cd.gif
gddrescue uses a text file to keep track of what sectors
got successfully copied. That's the file it uses from
one run to the next, to only work on the bits
remaining to do. gddrescue should be available from the
Ubuntu package repository, as an example.
If you do boot a MacOSX installer disc and run
Disk First Aid from there (from the menu), there's
no telling what will happen when the program hits
the "I/O error" area of the disk. I would no more
run Disk First Aid on a sick disk drive, than I'd
run CHKDSK on a sick disk drive.
Paul
Paul
2018-07-06 23:09:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Slootweg
Pardon my French######Dutch, but I didn't see Boris mentioning any
*I/O* errors, only 'errors'/messages from Paragon HFS+ for Windows. Am I
overlooking something?
https://postimg.cc/image/l2d72vcnf/

java.lang.RuntimeException:
Error 0x0000045D while attempting to read 262144 bytes
from position 975175680 in file (read 0 bytes).

Could be a tool issue.

https://sourceforge.net/p/catacombae/discussion/719087/thread/8411b0b2/

It's an error, but maybe it's "self-inflicted" and not
caused by hardware.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc231199.aspx

0x0000045D ERROR_IO_DEVICE
The request could not be performed because of an I/O device error.

You can use HDTune 2.55 and the Error Scan tab, select
the drive and see how many red blocks show up. If I was
doing it though, I'd save the effort for a ddrescue run,
to make sure I have a copy of the data.

http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe

Paul
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