Discussion:
A good computer program
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Ed Cryer
2018-05-08 14:02:22 UTC
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My paradigm for years has been Macrium Reflect. Its GUI is highly
intuitive, it does what it says it will, it's avoided bloat-growth to a
large extent (? strangely worded phrase to describe what I was trying
to), and it's very unobtrusive. And one other point; it is excellent at
keep you fully abreast of what it's doing, how long it's got still to do
it, in both percentages and time. It never jerks the green line across
the screen from, say, 10% to 21%. Never that I've seen, anyway.

The very antithesis of that is Win10 OS. And I don't mean just the
notorious update secretiveness. I include things like copying large
files, uninstalling large programs, and lots more. It jumps from 10 to
21, tells you nothing, sometimes moves the line steadily, then jerks,
then stops. And some functions just tell you nothing until they're done.
There is a little of this even in Win7. But not to the extent of Win10.
The latter gives me the impression that it doesn't care about letting me
know where it's at.

Ed
Good Guy
2018-05-08 16:54:02 UTC
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Post by Ed Cryer
My paradigm for years has been Macrium Reflect. Its GUI is highly
intuitive, it does what it says it will, it's avoided bloat-growth to
a large extent (? strangely worded phrase to describe what I was
trying to), and it's very unobtrusive. And one other point; it is
excellent at keep you fully abreast of what it's doing, how long it's
got still to do it, in both percentages and time. It never jerks the
green line across the screen from, say, 10% to 21%. Never that I've
seen, anyway.
So is ATH available free from WD, Seagate, Samsung, Toshiba and other HD
makers.

<http://downloads.wdc.com/acronis/ATI2016WD_build33.zip>

<https://www.seagate.com/www-content/support-content/downloads/discwizard/_shared/downloads/DiscWizardSetup-1806036.en.exe>
Post by Ed Cryer
/--- This email has been checked for viruses by
Windows Defender software.
//https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/comprehensive-security/
--
With over 600 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.
VanguardLH
2018-05-08 18:23:27 UTC
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Post by Ed Cryer
My paradigm for years has been Macrium Reflect. Its GUI is highly
intuitive, it does what it says it will, it's avoided bloat-growth to a
large extent (? strangely worded phrase to describe what I was trying
to), and it's very unobtrusive. And one other point; it is excellent at
keep you fully abreast of what it's doing, how long it's got still to do
it, in both percentages and time. It never jerks the green line across
the screen from, say, 10% to 21%. Never that I've seen, anyway.
The very antithesis of that is Win10 OS. And I don't mean just the
notorious update secretiveness. I include things like copying large
files, uninstalling large programs, and lots more. It jumps from 10 to
21, tells you nothing, sometimes moves the line steadily, then jerks,
then stops. And some functions just tell you nothing until they're done.
There is a little of this even in Win7. But not to the extent of Win10.
The latter gives me the impression that it doesn't care about letting me
know where it's at.
Did you have a question for this peer community to address? Or are you
just trying to instigate a flame thread? Why are you whining about
Windows 10 in a newsgroup for Windows 7? However, I doubt the peer
community over in the Windows 10 newsgroup needs to hear a rehash of the
same old, same old.
Paul
2018-05-08 19:00:39 UTC
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Post by Ed Cryer
My paradigm for years has been Macrium Reflect. Its GUI is highly
intuitive, it does what it says it will, it's avoided bloat-growth to a
large extent (? strangely worded phrase to describe what I was trying
to), and it's very unobtrusive. And one other point; it is excellent at
keep you fully abreast of what it's doing, how long it's got still to do
it, in both percentages and time. It never jerks the green line across
the screen from, say, 10% to 21%. Never that I've seen, anyway.
The very antithesis of that is Win10 OS. And I don't mean just the
notorious update secretiveness. I include things like copying large
files, uninstalling large programs, and lots more. It jumps from 10 to
21, tells you nothing, sometimes moves the line steadily, then jerks,
then stops. And some functions just tell you nothing until they're done.
There is a little of this even in Win7. But not to the extent of Win10.
The latter gives me the impression that it doesn't care about letting me
know where it's at.
Ed
Progress indicators are a "hard science" :-)

I don't think they teach this in the Comp Sci degree program :-)

Obviously, the Macrium guy went to Graduate School :-)

But they have to put something on the screen, because
update processes do "freeze up" or "go to sleep". So
there is some actual intelligence there. I know that my
SetupHost needs to have its priority raised... or something.
Or that Windows Defender needs to be switched off.
Or Superfetch service perhaps.

Paul
Ed Cryer
2018-05-08 22:03:20 UTC
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Post by Paul
Post by Ed Cryer
My paradigm for years has been Macrium Reflect. Its GUI is highly
intuitive, it does what it says it will, it's avoided bloat-growth to
a large extent (? strangely worded phrase to describe what I was
trying to), and it's very unobtrusive. And one other point; it is
excellent at keep you fully abreast of what it's doing, how long it's
got still to do it, in both percentages and time. It never jerks the
green line across the screen from, say, 10% to 21%. Never that I've
seen, anyway.
The very antithesis of that is Win10 OS. And I don't mean just the
notorious update secretiveness. I include things like copying large
files, uninstalling large programs, and lots more. It jumps from 10 to
21, tells you nothing, sometimes moves the line steadily, then jerks,
then stops. And some functions just tell you nothing until they're done.
There is a little of this even in Win7. But not to the extent of
Win10. The latter gives me the impression that it doesn't care about
letting me know where it's at.
Ed
Progress indicators are a "hard science" :-)
I don't think they teach this in the Comp Sci degree program :-)
Obviously, the Macrium guy went to Graduate School :-)
But they have to put something on the screen, because
update processes do "freeze up" or "go to sleep". So
there is some actual intelligence there. I know that my
SetupHost needs to have its priority raised... or something.
Or that Windows Defender needs to be switched off.
Or Superfetch service perhaps.
   Paul
What annoy me most are the forecasts of completion times; starting with
2 hrs 18 mins, quickly replaced by 1 hr 8 mins, then a gradual descent
to 38 mins, until it grinds to a halt and starts upward again.

I'm currently setting up a new Win10 system. God stand by me!

BTW, if anyone knows where I can get Daemon Tools Lite & Imgburn without
bundled malware, please let me know.

Ed
Paul
2018-05-08 22:38:23 UTC
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Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Paul
Post by Ed Cryer
My paradigm for years has been Macrium Reflect. Its GUI is highly
intuitive, it does what it says it will, it's avoided bloat-growth to
a large extent (? strangely worded phrase to describe what I was
trying to), and it's very unobtrusive. And one other point; it is
excellent at keep you fully abreast of what it's doing, how long it's
got still to do it, in both percentages and time. It never jerks the
green line across the screen from, say, 10% to 21%. Never that I've
seen, anyway.
The very antithesis of that is Win10 OS. And I don't mean just the
notorious update secretiveness. I include things like copying large
files, uninstalling large programs, and lots more. It jumps from 10
to 21, tells you nothing, sometimes moves the line steadily, then
jerks, then stops. And some functions just tell you nothing until
they're done.
There is a little of this even in Win7. But not to the extent of
Win10. The latter gives me the impression that it doesn't care about
letting me know where it's at.
Ed
Progress indicators are a "hard science" :-)
I don't think they teach this in the Comp Sci degree program :-)
Obviously, the Macrium guy went to Graduate School :-)
But they have to put something on the screen, because
update processes do "freeze up" or "go to sleep". So
there is some actual intelligence there. I know that my
SetupHost needs to have its priority raised... or something.
Or that Windows Defender needs to be switched off.
Or Superfetch service perhaps.
Paul
What annoy me most are the forecasts of completion times; starting with
2 hrs 18 mins, quickly replaced by 1 hr 8 mins, then a gradual descent
to 38 mins, until it grinds to a halt and starts upward again.
I'm currently setting up a new Win10 system. God stand by me!
BTW, if anyone knows where I can get Daemon Tools Lite & Imgburn without
bundled malware, please let me know.
Ed
I use version 2.5.0.0 of Imgburn and turn off updates.
The later versions are "slightly larger".

http://www.oldversion.com/windows/download/imgburn-2-5-0-0

2.5.0.0_SetupImgBurn_2.5.0.0.exe 2,169,915 bytes Jul 26, 2009
CRC32: 39CD6FC6
MD5: F3791CFACDAC03B9E676E44AA2630243
SHA-1: E07BCC23B495D0A966BAE359EA9E0E3A11888454

Paul
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-05-09 02:39:38 UTC
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Post by Paul
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Paul
Post by Ed Cryer
My paradigm for years has been Macrium Reflect. Its GUI is highly
intuitive, it does what it says it will, it's avoided bloat-growth
to a large extent (? strangely worded phrase to describe what I was
trying to), and it's very unobtrusive. And one other point; it is
excellent at keep you fully abreast of what it's doing, how long
it's got still to do it, in both percentages and time. It never
jerks the green line across the screen from, say, 10% to 21%. Never >>>>that I've seen, anyway.
I agree re Macrium. I also think IrfanView has resisted bloat well (its
basic install file is still only slightly larger than one floppy's
worth!). I'd also include the utilities from SysInternals and NirSoft.
Post by Paul
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Paul
Post by Ed Cryer
The very antithesis of that is Win10 OS. And I don't mean just the
notorious update secretiveness. I include things like copying large
files, uninstalling large programs, and lots more. It jumps from 10
to 21, tells you nothing, sometimes moves the line steadily, then
jerks, then stops. And some functions just tell you nothing until they're done.
There is a little of this even in Win7. But not to the extent of
Win10. The latter gives me the impression that it doesn't care about
letting me know where it's at.
The progress (or not) bars that _really_ irritate me are the ones that
don't tell you _anything_, but instead have a short coloured section
that passes uselessly across its progress-bar-like surround. These
started to appear (I think) in XP.
Post by Paul
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Paul
Post by Ed Cryer
Ed
Progress indicators are a "hard science" :-)
I don't think they teach this in the Comp Sci degree program :-)
Obviously, the Macrium guy went to Graduate School :-)
[]
Post by Paul
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Paul
Paul
What annoy me most are the forecasts of completion times; starting
with 2 hrs 18 mins, quickly replaced by 1 hr 8 mins, then a gradual
descent to 38 mins, until it grinds to a halt and starts upward again.
I'm currently setting up a new Win10 system. God stand by me!
BTW, if anyone knows where I can get Daemon Tools Lite & Imgburn
without bundled malware, please let me know.
Ed
I use version 2.5.0.0 of Imgburn and turn off updates.
The later versions are "slightly larger".
http://www.oldversion.com/windows/download/imgburn-2-5-0-0
Over a few days last week, I found both oldversion and oldapps have been
poorly: the front ends were working, that is the pages that told you all
about the versions available, right up to the download link, but the
download link itself was timing out.
[]
I was trying to find the earliest version of ZoneAlarm that will work
with W7 32 bit. (OldVersion and oldapps disagree: OV says various
versions work with W7, OA says they only work up to Vista [and I think
is correct in that].) I specifically _don't_ want a "security suite",
which the latest version of ZA seems to be; I just want a firewall.
Ideally, one that works like the late lamented KPF 2.1.5 - i. e.
whenever anything tries to move data in or out, I get a popup, and can
choose to allow or not, with the option of remembering the choice,
building up a list of rules which I can later examine and edit. I
_don't_ want fancy graphs (BitMeter2 gives me a little one of those
which is more than I need), or _any_ other complications. (I was trying
ZoneAlarm because an 80-year-old friend has a version of that which
_does_ behave as I want - popups to ask, option of "remember choice" -
but I don't think she'd be up to telling me what version she has, and
for some reason she can't connect to TeamViewer at her end so I could
look. [Also she has 64-bit 7, if that makes any difference.])
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Bother,"saidPoohwhenhisspacebarrefusedtowork.
Paul
2018-05-09 02:59:33 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Paul
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Paul
Post by Ed Cryer
My paradigm for years has been Macrium Reflect. Its GUI is highly
intuitive, it does what it says it will, it's avoided bloat-growth
to a large extent (? strangely worded phrase to describe what I
was trying to), and it's very unobtrusive. And one other point; it
is excellent at keep you fully abreast of what it's doing, how long
it's got still to do it, in both percentages and time. It never
jerks the green line across the screen from, say, 10% to 21%.
Never >>>>that I've seen, anyway.
I agree re Macrium. I also think IrfanView has resisted bloat well (its
basic install file is still only slightly larger than one floppy's
worth!). I'd also include the utilities from SysInternals and NirSoft.
Post by Paul
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Paul
Post by Ed Cryer
The very antithesis of that is Win10 OS. And I don't mean just the
notorious update secretiveness. I include things like copying large
files, uninstalling large programs, and lots more. It jumps from 10
to 21, tells you nothing, sometimes moves the line steadily, then
jerks, then stops. And some functions just tell you nothing until they're done.
There is a little of this even in Win7. But not to the extent of
Win10. The latter gives me the impression that it doesn't care
about letting me know where it's at.
The progress (or not) bars that _really_ irritate me are the ones that
don't tell you _anything_, but instead have a short coloured section
that passes uselessly across its progress-bar-like surround. These
started to appear (I think) in XP.
Post by Paul
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Paul
Post by Ed Cryer
Ed
Progress indicators are a "hard science" :-)
I don't think they teach this in the Comp Sci degree program :-)
Obviously, the Macrium guy went to Graduate School :-)
[]
Post by Paul
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Paul
Paul
What annoy me most are the forecasts of completion times; starting
with 2 hrs 18 mins, quickly replaced by 1 hr 8 mins, then a gradual
descent to 38 mins, until it grinds to a halt and starts upward again.
I'm currently setting up a new Win10 system. God stand by me!
BTW, if anyone knows where I can get Daemon Tools Lite & Imgburn
without bundled malware, please let me know.
Ed
I use version 2.5.0.0 of Imgburn and turn off updates.
The later versions are "slightly larger".
http://www.oldversion.com/windows/download/imgburn-2-5-0-0
Over a few days last week, I found both oldversion and oldapps have been
poorly: the front ends were working, that is the pages that told you all
about the versions available, right up to the download link, but the
download link itself was timing out.
[]
I was trying to find the earliest version of ZoneAlarm that will work
with W7 32 bit. (OldVersion and oldapps disagree: OV says various
versions work with W7, OA says they only work up to Vista [and I think
is correct in that].) I specifically _don't_ want a "security suite",
which the latest version of ZA seems to be; I just want a firewall.
Ideally, one that works like the late lamented KPF 2.1.5 - i. e.
whenever anything tries to move data in or out, I get a popup, and can
choose to allow or not, with the option of remembering the choice,
building up a list of rules which I can later examine and edit. I
_don't_ want fancy graphs (BitMeter2 gives me a little one of those
which is more than I need), or _any_ other complications. (I was trying
ZoneAlarm because an 80-year-old friend has a version of that which
_does_ behave as I want - popups to ask, option of "remember choice" -
but I don't think she'd be up to telling me what version she has, and
for some reason she can't connect to TeamViewer at her end so I could
look. [Also she has 64-bit 7, if that makes any difference.])
I have another place to get an Imgburn.

https://web.archive.org/web/20090815083118/http://www.imgburn.com/index.php?act=download

ImgBurn v2.5.0.0 (2,119 KB)
Released: Sunday 26th July 2009

CRC32: 39CD6FC6
MD5: F3791CFACDAC03B9E676E44AA2630243
SHA-1: E07BCC23B495D0A966BAE359EA9E0E3A11888454

*******

Zonealarm apparently has release notes.

https://www.zonealarm.com/software/release-history/zafree.html

ZoneAlarm version 9.2.057.000
Includes Microsoft patch for Windows 7 systems:

ZoneAlarm version 9.1.007.002
Windows 7 operating system compatibility

I don't know if that's going to make the search any easier though.
You would have to be pretty lucky to have the download URL
archived on archive.org .

Paul
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-05-09 05:12:12 UTC
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[]
Post by Paul
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I was trying to find the earliest version of ZoneAlarm that will work
with W7 32 bit. (OldVersion and oldapps disagree: OV says various
versions work with W7, OA says they only work up to Vista [and I think
is correct in that].) I specifically _don't_ want a "security suite",
which the latest version of ZA seems to be; I just want a firewall.
Ideally, one that works like the late lamented KPF 2.1.5 - i. e.
whenever anything tries to move data in or out, I get a popup, and can
choose to allow or not, with the option of remembering the choice,
building up a list of rules which I can later examine and edit. I
[]
Post by Paul
Zonealarm apparently has release notes.
https://www.zonealarm.com/software/release-history/zafree.html
Thanks for that link.
Post by Paul
ZoneAlarm version 9.2.057.000
ZoneAlarm version 9.1.007.002
Windows 7 operating system compatibility
Unfortunately, that history doesn't cover all versions: for example, it
goes from 8.0.298.000 to 9.1.007.002. It _looks_ from oldapps that
version 9.0.083.000 went up to Vista64, and 9.0.112.000 added both 7-32
and 7-64. (OldVersion suggests - I think erroneously - that versions 8
work with W7.)
Post by Paul
I don't know if that's going to make the search any easier though.
You would have to be pretty lucky to have the download URL
archived on archive.org .
Paul
When I said I wanted the earliest version that works with 7, I _think_ I
meant major version; the little wrinkles that go with the minor version
numbers are mostly I think bugfixes and minor tweaks, so I'll probably
go for the latest v9 I can find. I just really didn't want to gain a lot
of extra bloat, but all the versions of v9 seem to be _about_ the same
size - ranging from 108 to 144 MB. (8 was 50 to 58; 10 was 221 upwards,
so there's clearly a quantum jump in size between versions.) Though
there are a couple of smaller versions of v9 on oldversion (44.8 and 47
MB), so I am wondering if some of them _are_ a full suite which I don't
want.

(Later!) I've managed to download two versions of 9.2.106, 45,873 KB,
which one of the posters on
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r31048210-What-s-a-good-free-standalone-firewall-program-for-64-bit-W7-HPE-SP1
says "is last version without a lot of bloat and is only a firewall." fc
/b ... both (from different sources) are the same. AVG says it's OK. I
think I'll leave trying it to another time, I'm a bit sleepy for the
moment!

[oldversion and oldapps' actual download servers are still timing out
with a 503, sadly )-:.]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of
confidence. D McLeod
Monty
2018-05-09 00:57:35 UTC
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Post by Ed Cryer
BTW, if anyone knows where I can get Daemon Tools Lite & Imgburn without
bundled malware, please let me know.
Ed
Two sites you might try:

www.oldversion.com

www.daemon-tools.cc
Ed Cryer
2018-05-09 12:24:21 UTC
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Post by Monty
Post by Ed Cryer
BTW, if anyone knows where I can get Daemon Tools Lite & Imgburn without
bundled malware, please let me know.
Ed
www.daemon-tools.cc
That's where I got the free (with ads) version a day ago; and it sent my
AVs wild with anger. I've run MBAM, Spybot and Adwcleaner to ferret out
its droppings.

Ed
Paul
2018-05-09 13:44:07 UTC
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Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Monty
Post by Ed Cryer
BTW, if anyone knows where I can get Daemon Tools Lite & Imgburn without
bundled malware, please let me know.
Ed
www.daemon-tools.cc
That's where I got the free (with ads) version a day ago; and it sent my
AVs wild with anger. I've run MBAM, Spybot and Adwcleaner to ferret out
its droppings.
Ed
Daemon Tools Lite doesn't seem to have a lot of features.
Compared to the paid versions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daemon_Tools

It's possible you could get an ISO9660 mounter (virtual cd) from Microsoft.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/download/details.aspx?id=38780

And a program like 7ZIP, allows extracting individual files
directly from an ISO9660 file.

https://www.7-zip.org

Granted, Daemon Tools Lite supports more formats, but for
external content coming into the machine, you may be able to
bodge together a solution with existing offerings.

From my notes, it's possible this will convert a
folder of files, into an ISO9660 image. I may have been
using a recipe like this, to pass files into a VM environment
with broken networking. WSUSOffline is normally a tool for
preparing a set of security updates for windows, but it also
uses freeware tools for environment support. And it happens
to have some sort of port of mkisofs.

http://download.wsusoffline.net/mkisofs.exe

mkisofs -V "TESTIMG0" -J -r -o 0.iso ./0

The WADK kit may have had "oscdimg.exe", which is
a Microsoft tool that authors bootable installer discs.
This method used to work, to convert Windows 10 Insider download
folder contents, into an installer DVD, but it stopped working
over a year ago (once the Delta encoding era started).
The WADK kit would still have the capability of remastering
install media (customizing Windows installs). This was just
an interesting reuse of the tools.

https://deploymentresearch.com/Research/Post/399/How-to-REALLY-create-a-Windows-10-ISO-no-3rd-party-tools-needed

Paul
Ed Cryer
2018-05-09 16:17:24 UTC
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Post by Paul
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Ed Cryer
BTW, if anyone knows where I can get Daemon Tools Lite & Imgburn without
bundled malware, please let me know.
Ed
  www.daemon-tools.cc
That's where I got the free (with ads) version a day ago; and it sent
my AVs wild with anger. I've run MBAM, Spybot and Adwcleaner to ferret
out its droppings.
Ed
Daemon Tools Lite doesn't seem to have a lot of features.
Compared to the paid versions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daemon_Tools
It's possible you could get an ISO9660 mounter (virtual cd) from Microsoft.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/download/details.aspx?id=38780
And a program like 7ZIP, allows extracting individual files
directly from an ISO9660 file.
https://www.7-zip.org
Granted, Daemon Tools Lite supports more formats, but for
external content coming into the machine, you may be able to
bodge together a solution with existing offerings.
From my notes, it's possible this will convert a
folder of files, into an ISO9660 image. I may have been
using a recipe like this, to pass files into a VM environment
with broken networking. WSUSOffline is normally a tool for
preparing a set of security updates for windows, but it also
uses freeware tools for environment support. And it happens
to have some sort of port of mkisofs.
http://download.wsusoffline.net/mkisofs.exe
mkisofs -V "TESTIMG0" -J -r -o 0.iso ./0
The WADK kit may have had "oscdimg.exe", which is
a Microsoft tool that authors bootable installer discs.
This method used to work, to convert Windows 10 Insider download
folder contents, into an installer DVD, but it stopped working
over a year ago (once the Delta encoding era started).
The WADK kit would still have the capability of remastering
install media (customizing Windows installs). This was just
an interesting reuse of the tools.
https://deploymentresearch.com/Research/Post/399/How-to-REALLY-create-a-Windows-10-ISO-no-3rd-party-tools-needed
   Paul
Thanks Paul. I'll abandon Daemon Lite and go for something else.
I only ever used it to mount iso's, anyway.
7ZIP I've been using for years, without knowing that it could survey iso's.
As for mounting iso's there are heaps of freeware available; and this
list has your suggestion as no 1.
https://goo.gl/x46isH

Ed
Paul
2018-05-09 18:52:22 UTC
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Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Paul
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Monty
Post by Ed Cryer
BTW, if anyone knows where I can get Daemon Tools Lite & Imgburn without
bundled malware, please let me know.
Ed
www.daemon-tools.cc
That's where I got the free (with ads) version a day ago; and it sent
my AVs wild with anger. I've run MBAM, Spybot and Adwcleaner to
ferret out its droppings.
Ed
Daemon Tools Lite doesn't seem to have a lot of features.
Compared to the paid versions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daemon_Tools
It's possible you could get an ISO9660 mounter (virtual cd) from Microsoft.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/download/details.aspx?id=38780
And a program like 7ZIP, allows extracting individual files
directly from an ISO9660 file.
https://www.7-zip.org
Granted, Daemon Tools Lite supports more formats, but for
external content coming into the machine, you may be able to
bodge together a solution with existing offerings.
From my notes, it's possible this will convert a
folder of files, into an ISO9660 image. I may have been
using a recipe like this, to pass files into a VM environment
with broken networking. WSUSOffline is normally a tool for
preparing a set of security updates for windows, but it also
uses freeware tools for environment support. And it happens
to have some sort of port of mkisofs.
http://download.wsusoffline.net/mkisofs.exe
mkisofs -V "TESTIMG0" -J -r -o 0.iso ./0
The WADK kit may have had "oscdimg.exe", which is
a Microsoft tool that authors bootable installer discs.
This method used to work, to convert Windows 10 Insider download
folder contents, into an installer DVD, but it stopped working
over a year ago (once the Delta encoding era started).
The WADK kit would still have the capability of remastering
install media (customizing Windows installs). This was just
an interesting reuse of the tools.
https://deploymentresearch.com/Research/Post/399/How-to-REALLY-create-a-Windows-10-ISO-no-3rd-party-tools-needed
Paul
Thanks Paul. I'll abandon Daemon Lite and go for something else.
I only ever used it to mount iso's, anyway.
7ZIP I've been using for years, without knowing that it could survey iso's.
As for mounting iso's there are heaps of freeware available; and this
list has your suggestion as no 1.
https://goo.gl/x46isH
Ed
The 7ZIP 16.04 or higher, has added the ability to tunnel into
a bitmap copy of a hard drive, and burrow into the partitions
it recognizes. But the capability is marred by bad handling of
CHS geometry issues, so it doesn't always work. It was actually
working better when if first came out. But just about everything
I try to feed it today, it refuses to examine. It seems to
work best with "legacy MBR" disk images. A previous version
was hammering the usage of system RAM pretty hard, but the
algorithm got changed to a better streaming approach (which
he uses for a lot of his stuff).

So in terms of what version of 7ZIP you want, you can move up
to 16.04 if seeking the "maximum number of can openers". It will
open a WIM but not an ESD. And it doesn't really handle
"code packers" at all, of which there are 20-30 formats or so.
Your AV products have to handle those when scanning. But for most
day-to-day usages cases, "7ZIP handles everything" :-)

Usually, if a download involves a code packer, and the file
size is too large to upload to virustotal for analysis, that's
a sign it's "a bomb" and you probably don't want to run the
thing anyway :-)

Paul
Ed Cryer
2018-05-10 11:03:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Paul
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Ed Cryer
BTW, if anyone knows where I can get Daemon Tools Lite & Imgburn without
bundled malware, please let me know.
Ed
  www.daemon-tools.cc
That's where I got the free (with ads) version a day ago; and it
sent my AVs wild with anger. I've run MBAM, Spybot and Adwcleaner to
ferret out its droppings.
Ed
Daemon Tools Lite doesn't seem to have a lot of features.
Compared to the paid versions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daemon_Tools
It's possible you could get an ISO9660 mounter (virtual cd) from Microsoft.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/download/details.aspx?id=38780
And a program like 7ZIP, allows extracting individual files
directly from an ISO9660 file.
https://www.7-zip.org
Granted, Daemon Tools Lite supports more formats, but for
external content coming into the machine, you may be able to
bodge together a solution with existing offerings.
 From my notes, it's possible this will convert a
folder of files, into an ISO9660 image. I may have been
using a recipe like this, to pass files into a VM environment
with broken networking. WSUSOffline is normally a tool for
preparing a set of security updates for windows, but it also
uses freeware tools for environment support. And it happens
to have some sort of port of mkisofs.
http://download.wsusoffline.net/mkisofs.exe
mkisofs -V "TESTIMG0" -J -r -o 0.iso ./0
The WADK kit may have had "oscdimg.exe", which is
a Microsoft tool that authors bootable installer discs.
This method used to work, to convert Windows 10 Insider download
folder contents, into an installer DVD, but it stopped working
over a year ago (once the Delta encoding era started).
The WADK kit would still have the capability of remastering
install media (customizing Windows installs). This was just
an interesting reuse of the tools.
https://deploymentresearch.com/Research/Post/399/How-to-REALLY-create-a-Windows-10-ISO-no-3rd-party-tools-needed
    Paul
Thanks Paul. I'll abandon Daemon Lite and go for something else.
I only ever used it to mount iso's, anyway.
7ZIP I've been using for years, without knowing that it could survey iso's.
As for mounting iso's there are heaps of freeware available; and this
list has your suggestion as no 1.
https://goo.gl/x46isH
Ed
The 7ZIP 16.04 or higher, has added the ability to tunnel into
a bitmap copy of a hard drive, and burrow into the partitions
it recognizes. But the capability is marred by bad handling of
CHS geometry issues, so it doesn't always work. It was actually
working better when if first came out. But just about everything
I try to feed it today, it refuses to examine. It seems to
work best with "legacy MBR" disk images. A previous version
was hammering the usage of system RAM pretty hard, but the
algorithm got changed to a better streaming approach (which
he uses for a lot of his stuff).
So in terms of what version of 7ZIP you want, you can move up
to 16.04 if seeking the "maximum number of can openers". It will
open a WIM but not an ESD. And it doesn't really handle
"code packers" at all, of which there are 20-30 formats or so.
Your AV products have to handle those when scanning. But for most
day-to-day usages cases, "7ZIP handles everything" :-)
Usually, if a download involves a code packer, and the file
size is too large to upload to virustotal for analysis, that's
a sign it's "a bomb" and you probably don't want to run the
thing anyway :-)
   Paul
I've found out that Win10 has its own generic iso-mounting capability.
It's in the context menu of iso files, but with the restriction that
they have to be on an NTFS-formatted medium.

Ed
Ed Cryer
2018-05-10 11:17:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Paul
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Paul
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Ed Cryer
BTW, if anyone knows where I can get Daemon Tools Lite & Imgburn without
bundled malware, please let me know.
Ed
  www.daemon-tools.cc
That's where I got the free (with ads) version a day ago; and it
sent my AVs wild with anger. I've run MBAM, Spybot and Adwcleaner
to ferret out its droppings.
Ed
Daemon Tools Lite doesn't seem to have a lot of features.
Compared to the paid versions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daemon_Tools
It's possible you could get an ISO9660 mounter (virtual cd) from Microsoft.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/download/details.aspx?id=38780
And a program like 7ZIP, allows extracting individual files
directly from an ISO9660 file.
https://www.7-zip.org
Granted, Daemon Tools Lite supports more formats, but for
external content coming into the machine, you may be able to
bodge together a solution with existing offerings.
 From my notes, it's possible this will convert a
folder of files, into an ISO9660 image. I may have been
using a recipe like this, to pass files into a VM environment
with broken networking. WSUSOffline is normally a tool for
preparing a set of security updates for windows, but it also
uses freeware tools for environment support. And it happens
to have some sort of port of mkisofs.
http://download.wsusoffline.net/mkisofs.exe
mkisofs -V "TESTIMG0" -J -r -o 0.iso ./0
The WADK kit may have had "oscdimg.exe", which is
a Microsoft tool that authors bootable installer discs.
This method used to work, to convert Windows 10 Insider download
folder contents, into an installer DVD, but it stopped working
over a year ago (once the Delta encoding era started).
The WADK kit would still have the capability of remastering
install media (customizing Windows installs). This was just
an interesting reuse of the tools.
https://deploymentresearch.com/Research/Post/399/How-to-REALLY-create-a-Windows-10-ISO-no-3rd-party-tools-needed
    Paul
Thanks Paul. I'll abandon Daemon Lite and go for something else.
I only ever used it to mount iso's, anyway.
7ZIP I've been using for years, without knowing that it could survey iso's.
As for mounting iso's there are heaps of freeware available; and this
list has your suggestion as no 1.
https://goo.gl/x46isH
Ed
The 7ZIP 16.04 or higher, has added the ability to tunnel into
a bitmap copy of a hard drive, and burrow into the partitions
it recognizes. But the capability is marred by bad handling of
CHS geometry issues, so it doesn't always work. It was actually
working better when if first came out. But just about everything
I try to feed it today, it refuses to examine. It seems to
work best with "legacy MBR" disk images. A previous version
was hammering the usage of system RAM pretty hard, but the
algorithm got changed to a better streaming approach (which
he uses for a lot of his stuff).
So in terms of what version of 7ZIP you want, you can move up
to 16.04 if seeking the "maximum number of can openers". It will
open a WIM but not an ESD. And it doesn't really handle
"code packers" at all, of which there are 20-30 formats or so.
Your AV products have to handle those when scanning. But for most
day-to-day usages cases, "7ZIP handles everything" :-)
Usually, if a download involves a code packer, and the file
size is too large to upload to virustotal for analysis, that's
a sign it's "a bomb" and you probably don't want to run the
thing anyway :-)
    Paul
I've found out that Win10 has its own generic iso-mounting capability.
It's in the context menu of iso files, but with the restriction that
they have to be on an NTFS-formatted medium.
Ed
https://goo.gl/HD4wem

Ed
Paul
2018-05-10 12:21:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Paul
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Paul
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Monty
Post by Ed Cryer
BTW, if anyone knows where I can get Daemon Tools Lite & Imgburn without
bundled malware, please let me know.
Ed
www.daemon-tools.cc
That's where I got the free (with ads) version a day ago; and it
sent my AVs wild with anger. I've run MBAM, Spybot and Adwcleaner
to ferret out its droppings.
Ed
Daemon Tools Lite doesn't seem to have a lot of features.
Compared to the paid versions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daemon_Tools
It's possible you could get an ISO9660 mounter (virtual cd) from Microsoft.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/download/details.aspx?id=38780
And a program like 7ZIP, allows extracting individual files
directly from an ISO9660 file.
https://www.7-zip.org
Granted, Daemon Tools Lite supports more formats, but for
external content coming into the machine, you may be able to
bodge together a solution with existing offerings.
From my notes, it's possible this will convert a
folder of files, into an ISO9660 image. I may have been
using a recipe like this, to pass files into a VM environment
with broken networking. WSUSOffline is normally a tool for
preparing a set of security updates for windows, but it also
uses freeware tools for environment support. And it happens
to have some sort of port of mkisofs.
http://download.wsusoffline.net/mkisofs.exe
mkisofs -V "TESTIMG0" -J -r -o 0.iso ./0
The WADK kit may have had "oscdimg.exe", which is
a Microsoft tool that authors bootable installer discs.
This method used to work, to convert Windows 10 Insider download
folder contents, into an installer DVD, but it stopped working
over a year ago (once the Delta encoding era started).
The WADK kit would still have the capability of remastering
install media (customizing Windows installs). This was just
an interesting reuse of the tools.
https://deploymentresearch.com/Research/Post/399/How-to-REALLY-create-a-Windows-10-ISO-no-3rd-party-tools-needed
Paul
Thanks Paul. I'll abandon Daemon Lite and go for something else.
I only ever used it to mount iso's, anyway.
7ZIP I've been using for years, without knowing that it could survey iso's.
As for mounting iso's there are heaps of freeware available; and this
list has your suggestion as no 1.
https://goo.gl/x46isH
Ed
The 7ZIP 16.04 or higher, has added the ability to tunnel into
a bitmap copy of a hard drive, and burrow into the partitions
it recognizes. But the capability is marred by bad handling of
CHS geometry issues, so it doesn't always work. It was actually
working better when if first came out. But just about everything
I try to feed it today, it refuses to examine. It seems to
work best with "legacy MBR" disk images. A previous version
was hammering the usage of system RAM pretty hard, but the
algorithm got changed to a better streaming approach (which
he uses for a lot of his stuff).
So in terms of what version of 7ZIP you want, you can move up
to 16.04 if seeking the "maximum number of can openers". It will
open a WIM but not an ESD. And it doesn't really handle
"code packers" at all, of which there are 20-30 formats or so.
Your AV products have to handle those when scanning. But for most
day-to-day usages cases, "7ZIP handles everything" :-)
Usually, if a download involves a code packer, and the file
size is too large to upload to virustotal for analysis, that's
a sign it's "a bomb" and you probably don't want to run the
thing anyway :-)
Paul
I've found out that Win10 has its own generic iso-mounting capability.
It's in the context menu of iso files, but with the restriction that
they have to be on an NTFS-formatted medium.
Ed
It does. It's how I do Upgrade Installs from a Microsoft ISO,
without burning a DVD to do it. It's great having a virtual disc
mounter after all these years.

*******

This is a historical reference, but it gives some
terms to start with.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa364836(v=vs.85).aspx

ISO 9660

The ISO 9660 format is the original standard file system for CD data discs.

Joliet

The Joliet format is a derivative of ISO 9660.

Universal Disk Format (UDF)

UDF is replacing ISO 9660 as the new standard,
especially with read/write media.

And this one wouldn't be an issue at runtime, but
would be an issue for some boot loader type stuff.
Some items on optical discs are "overlays", where
two file systems can be present at the same time
on the disc (one set of data clusters, two sets
of representations), so that both exist at the same
time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Torito_(CD-ROM_standard)

The El Torito Bootable CD Specification is an extension to
ISO 9660 [that] allow a computer to boot from a CD-ROM.

*******

If you have a Windows 10 setup, and have "Bash" installed,
you can do:

disktype # run the command, and it tells you
# the command to install it. Like maybe
# sudo apt install disktype

disktype /mnt/c/users/ed/Downloads/some.iso

and that will tell you what file systems are on
your downloaded ISO content.

That way, if you have a suspicion that something on the
disc prevents mounting, the disktype program will tell
you what the actual content type in the ISO file is.

The Bash shell doesn't give access to /dev/sda (your hard
drive), but the Bash shell can work on random files on
your lettered partitions. Thus C:\ is /mnt/c (with a lower
case c). And the Bash shell would use forward slashes
as its preferred format, which is why that command
looks weird.

The kinds of formats "disktype" knows about are listed here.

http://disktype.sourceforge.net/

*******

UDF is a bit of a bear, in that it has "version numbers",
so for people serious about their UDF, some versions of
Windows will barf and others work. That's why the table
half-way down this page, is important for explaining why
something you're trying to do, isn't working.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Disk_Format

It's funny how naming conventions work, in that a "universal"
disc format, isn't actually universal.

You can apply that one to hard drives too - someone coaxed
me to try that one day. You would only do that on a bar bet,
as it has no practical purpose that I could see.

*******

One way you might get NTFS on an optical disc, would
be if the disc blank was DVDRAM type. Something I think
my drive supports, but I've never had the media for it.
DVDRAM has concentric circles in the media, rather than
the standard spiral pattern, and DVDRAM supports random
access. Making it very similar to a hard drive, but
a lot lot slower on seeks.

*******

If you're not on Windows 10, and you want Disktype, there
is one in the Cygwin package list. And that's what I use
on this machine for the "sniffing" of storage types.
There is the disktype.exe as well as two Cygwin DLL files,
that allow it to run on OSes like Windows 7. To get that,
you can install Cygwin, "work the levers" to make disktype
install, grab the three files, then delete the entire
Cygwin tree :-) That's how you get it.

This is a typical disktype.exe output. Just to give some
idea why you might or might not want it. This gives some
idea just how complicated an ISO overlay can get. This is
a hybrid DVD, which can also be transferred to a USB stick
and boots there as well.

L:\>disktype ubuntustudio-17.10-dvd-amd64.iso

--- ubuntustudio-17.10-dvd-amd64.iso
Regular file, size 2.672 GiB (2868903936 bytes)
DOS/MBR partition map
Partition 2: 2.250 MiB (2359296 bytes, 4608 sectors from 5549372)
Type 0xEF (EFI System (FAT))
FAT12 file system (hints score 5 of 5)
Volume size 2.229 MiB (2336768 bytes, 1141 clusters of 2 KiB)
GPT partition map, 208 entries
Disk size 2.672 GiB (2868903936 bytes, 5603328 sectors)
Disk GUID F05CFA94-F224-5C40-9263-AA161B0B003C
Partition 1: 2.672 GiB (2868875264 bytes, 5603272 sectors from 0)
Type Basic Data (GUID A2A0D0EB-E5B9-3344-87C0-68B6B72699C7)
Partition Name "ISOHybrid"
Partition GUID 7BDC6A81-F224-DC40-9261-2B161B0BF122
Partition 2: 2.250 MiB (2359296 bytes, 4608 sectors from 5549372)
Type Basic Data (GUID A2A0D0EB-E5B9-3344-87C0-68B6B72699C7)
Partition Name "ISOHybrid1"
Partition GUID AE4B1D72-F224-4B40-9260-FB161B0BF6BE
FAT12 file system (hints score 5 of 5)
Volume size 2.229 MiB (2336768 bytes, 1141 clusters of 2 KiB)
Partition 3: unused
ISO9660 file system
Volume name "Ubuntu-Studio 17.10 amd64"
Preparer "XORRISO-1.2.4 2012.07.20.130001, LIBISOBURN-1.2.4,
LIBISOFS-1.2.4, LIBBURN-1.2.4"
Data size 2.672 GiB (2868903936 bytes, 1400832 blocks of 2 KiB)
El Torito boot record, catalog at 217
Bootable non-emulated image, starts at 1384578, preloads 2 KiB
Platform 0x00 (x86), System Type 0x00 (Empty)
ISOLINUX boot loader
Bootable non-emulated image, starts at 1387343, preloads 2.250 MiB
Platform 0xEF (EFI), System Type 0x00 (Empty)
FAT12 file system (hints score 5 of 5)
Volume size 2.229 MiB (2336768 bytes, 1141 clusters of 2 KiB)
Joliet extension, volume name "Ubuntu-Studio 17"

Then, we can check how complicated a Microsoft one is,
for comparison. The Microsoft one doesn't support "easy transfer
to a USB stick, sector by sector, bootable", which is why the layout
is a bit simpler.

L:\>disktype Win10_1803_English_x32.iso

--- Win10_1803_English_x32.iso
Regular file, size 3.157 GiB (3389732864 bytes)
UDF file system
Sector size 2048 bytes
Volume name "UDF Volume"
UDF version 1.02
ISO9660 file system
Volume name "CCCOMA_X86FRE_EN-US_DV9"
Publisher "MICROSOFT CORPORATION"
Preparer "MICROSOFT CORPORATION, ONE MICROSOFT WAY, REDMOND WA 98052, (425)
882-8080"
Application "CDIMAGE 2.53 (01/01/2005 TM)"
Data size 3.157 GiB (3389732864 bytes, 1655143 blocks of 2 KiB)
El Torito boot record, catalog at 22
Bootable non-emulated image, starts at 517, preloads 4 KiB
Platform 0x00 (x86), System Type 0x00 (Empty)
Bootable non-emulated image, starts at 519, preloads 512 bytes
Platform 0xEF (EFI), System Type 0x00 (Empty)
Windows / MS-DOS boot loader
FAT12 file system (hints score 5 of 5)
Volume size 1.390 MiB (1457664 bytes, 2847 clusters of 512 bytes)
Volume name "EFISECTOR"

HTH,
Paul
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-05-10 16:59:08 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
In message <pd1912$4g6$***@dont-email.me>, Ed Cryer
<***@somewhere.in.the.uk> writes:
[]
Post by Ed Cryer
I've found out that Win10 has its own generic iso-mounting capability.
It's in the context menu of iso files, but with the restriction that
they have to be on an NTFS-formatted medium.
Ed
What possible reason can there be for that restriction, other than
personal prejudice on the part of the programmer? I know NTFS is
generally considered better in many ways, but I can't see why what
format (?) the supporting media is, should have any bearing on whether
an iso-mounting capability works or doesn't. (I'm assuming here we're
talking of a read-only ISO, i. e. an image of a CD or DVD.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

… too popular actually to be any good. - Alison Graham in Radio Times 2-8
February 2013
Paul
2018-05-10 19:15:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Ed Cryer
I've found out that Win10 has its own generic iso-mounting capability.
It's in the context menu of iso files, but with the restriction that
they have to be on an NTFS-formatted medium.
Ed
What possible reason can there be for that restriction, other than
personal prejudice on the part of the programmer? I know NTFS is
generally considered better in many ways, but I can't see why what
format (?) the supporting media is, should have any bearing on whether
an iso-mounting capability works or doesn't. (I'm assuming here we're
talking of a read-only ISO, i. e. an image of a CD or DVD.)
OK, I remember what this reference is about.

It's the same issue as VHDMount.

It's the partition the *operating system* is on.

VHDMount only worked if C: for the operating system was NTFS.
If your copy of WinXP was installed on a FAT32 volume,
VHDMount wouldn't work.

It's possible the ISO mounter uses a similar hook, and
you have nothing to worry about, as the Vista+ OSes all
use NTFS for C: .

Maybe that's where the reference comes from. It's the
anchor point and namespace for the backend of the mounter,
rather than the supported optical disc formats.

And the funny part would be, that other people make
mounters, that run on anything. For example, Macrium
can mount an MRIMG on WinXP where C: is FAT32, so they
don't have such a restriction for what the mount point
can be on.

And I don't think there was such a restriction (as such)
on IFS (installable file systems). You can support
practically anything on Windows via the IFS mechanism,
as long as someone writes a driver. I think there
might be two EXT mounters as an example, one of
which was only compatible with a very early version
of EXT (Linux) file system.

So if there were restrictions, I've been unable to
find a technical reference to where the restriction
is coming from. Over the years I've believed it
to be bogus, but have been unable to find any
article to shine light on why Microsoft does
that sort of check at mount time.

It's like the nonsense idea, that mounting a VHDX
on Windows 10, absolutely has to have Hyper-X installed.
Writing mounters in 2018 is a doddle (it's part
of virtual machine hosting stack), and simply packaging
up some DLL should be enough to do it, without torturing
people with pudgy suites to install, just to get one
stinking DLL. Microsoft management do come up with the
strangest ideas. And when they do shit like that,
all they do is marginalize their tech (Paul won't
install Hyper-V in any case, so Paul won't *ever*
put .vhdx into *any* workflow - see how .vhdx
gets doomed by this sort of behavior ? This also
puts Windows 7 Backup in Win10 "out of bounds"
as it uses .vhdx.).

Paul
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-05-10 19:36:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
In message <pd25ot$6k8$***@dont-email.me>, Paul <***@needed.invalid>
writes:
[]
Post by Paul
It's like the nonsense idea, that mounting a VHDX
on Windows 10, absolutely has to have Hyper-X installed.
Writing mounters in 2018 is a doddle (it's part
of virtual machine hosting stack), and simply packaging
up some DLL should be enough to do it, without torturing
people with pudgy suites to install, just to get one
stinking DLL. Microsoft management do come up with the
strangest ideas. And when they do shit like that,
all they do is marginalize their tech (Paul won't
install Hyper-V in any case, so Paul won't *ever*
put .vhdx into *any* workflow - see how .vhdx
gets doomed by this sort of behavior ? This also
puts Windows 7 Backup in Win10 "out of bounds"
as it uses .vhdx.).
[]
Go on, tell us how you _really_ feel ... (-:

I've noticed a growing disillusionment with Microsoft's recent behaviour
on your part, Paul: you used to be very carefully neutral! Although it's
tempting to me to think you've seen the light or some similar
expression, is there a particular reason? Or do you think MS themselves
have changed in the last few months/year or two? (Perhaps the removal of
update control - for the ordinary Joe at least - with Windows 10?) Or
have I misinterpreted your views, and you _are_ still neutral?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

_____
___ |[]|_n_n_I_c
|___||__|###|____)
O-O--O-O+++--O-O
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