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Windows updates
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Art Todesco
2018-07-15 11:07:06 UTC
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Anyone know why there are so many Windows 7 updates coming through?
I've had updates everyday for about the last week.
Ed Cryer
2018-07-15 11:22:25 UTC
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Anyone know why there are so many Windows 7 updates coming through? I've
had updates everyday for about the last week.
Are they mostly MSE definition updates?

Ed
Paul
2018-07-15 18:41:16 UTC
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Anyone know why there are so many Windows 7 updates coming through? I've
had updates everyday for about the last week.
Looping ?

Did you check your Windows Update history for
"failed" items ?

Paul
Art Todesco
2018-07-15 20:20:48 UTC
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Post by Paul
Post by Art Todesco
Anyone know why there are so many Windows 7 updates coming through?
I've had updates everyday for about the last week.
Looping ?
Did you check your Windows Update history for
"failed" items ?
   Paul
All were successful and about half were MSE updates. Also they started
on July 1 and there are updates for each day; and several on some days.
Ed Cryer
2018-07-15 20:29:39 UTC
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Post by Paul
Post by Art Todesco
Anyone know why there are so many Windows 7 updates coming through?
I've had updates everyday for about the last week.
Looping ?
Did you check your Windows Update history for
"failed" items ?
    Paul
All were successful and about half were MSE updates.  Also they started
on July 1 and there are updates for each day; and several on some days.
Same here with the MSE updates. It started about the time you mention.
They used to update automatically.
I have "Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and
install them"; and it's been like that for years. So this change in
behaviour must have been occasioned by some MS amendment.

As you say, they now function just like Windows updates; and we get the
message saying updates available, leaving it up to us to download.

Ed
Art Todesco
2018-07-16 12:06:42 UTC
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Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Paul
Post by Art Todesco
Anyone know why there are so many Windows 7 updates coming through?
I've had updates everyday for about the last week.
Looping ?
Did you check your Windows Update history for
"failed" items ?
    Paul
All were successful and about half were MSE updates.  Also they
started on July 1 and there are updates for each day; and several on
some days.
Same here with the MSE updates. It started about the time you mention.
They used to update automatically.
I have "Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and
install them"; and it's been like that for years. So this change in
behaviour must have been occasioned by some MS amendment.
As you say, they now function just like Windows updates; and we get the
message saying updates available, leaving it up to us to download.
Ed
Yup, just got another one this AM. It was optional "Silverlight" and
not optional MSE update.
Ed Cryer
2018-07-16 17:54:43 UTC
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Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Paul
Post by Art Todesco
Anyone know why there are so many Windows 7 updates coming through?
I've had updates everyday for about the last week.
Looping ?
Did you check your Windows Update history for
"failed" items ?
    Paul
All were successful and about half were MSE updates.  Also they
started on July 1 and there are updates for each day; and several on
some days.
Same here with the MSE updates. It started about the time you mention.
They used to update automatically.
I have "Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and
install them"; and it's been like that for years. So this change in
behaviour must have been occasioned by some MS amendment.
As you say, they now function just like Windows updates; and we get
the message saying updates available, leaving it up to us to download.
Ed
Yup, just got another one this AM.  It was optional "Silverlight" and
not optional MSE update.
My MSE updates now come as "Recommended". They used to be "Optional"
until 06.07.
I've had no Silverlight update for weeks. Two new MSE ones today; both
flagged for me to download at my leisure.

The only way I can think of getting back to auto-updating the MSE things
is to change settings to "download and install" for all updates. And I
ain't a gonna do that, no way.
So I'm stuck with what MS have dumped on me.

Ed
Ed Cryer
2018-07-16 18:20:07 UTC
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Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Paul
Post by Art Todesco
Anyone know why there are so many Windows 7 updates coming
through? I've had updates everyday for about the last week.
Looping ?
Did you check your Windows Update history for
"failed" items ?
    Paul
All were successful and about half were MSE updates.  Also they
started on July 1 and there are updates for each day; and several on
some days.
Same here with the MSE updates. It started about the time you mention.
They used to update automatically.
I have "Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and
install them"; and it's been like that for years. So this change in
behaviour must have been occasioned by some MS amendment.
As you say, they now function just like Windows updates; and we get
the message saying updates available, leaving it up to us to download.
Ed
Yup, just got another one this AM.  It was optional "Silverlight" and
not optional MSE update.
My MSE updates now come as "Recommended". They used to be "Optional"
until 06.07.
I've had no Silverlight update for weeks. Two new MSE ones today; both
flagged for me to download at my leisure.
The only way I can think of getting back to auto-updating the MSE things
is to change settings to "download and install" for all updates. And I
ain't a gonna do that, no way.
So I'm stuck with what MS have dumped on me.
Ed
Now you can see why MS have done this. Or, at least I can.
It's straddled us with a choice. Do you want MSE definition updates to
be downloaded and installed automatically; or do you want them to hang
around up there until you take action and do it yourself?

Cunning! But very translucent when you hold up to your eyes their policy
of forcing updates down and in, willy-nilly of individual choice.

Well, stay with me. Keep your update settings under personal control,
and just download the virus-definitions as they get advertised.

Ed
Paul
2018-07-16 21:22:45 UTC
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Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Art Todesco
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Art Todesco
Post by Paul
Post by Art Todesco
Anyone know why there are so many Windows 7 updates coming
through? I've had updates everyday for about the last week.
Looping ?
Did you check your Windows Update history for
"failed" items ?
Paul
All were successful and about half were MSE updates. Also they
started on July 1 and there are updates for each day; and several
on some days.
Same here with the MSE updates. It started about the time you mention.
They used to update automatically.
I have "Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and
install them"; and it's been like that for years. So this change in
behaviour must have been occasioned by some MS amendment.
As you say, they now function just like Windows updates; and we get
the message saying updates available, leaving it up to us to download.
Ed
Yup, just got another one this AM. It was optional "Silverlight" and
not optional MSE update.
My MSE updates now come as "Recommended". They used to be "Optional"
until 06.07.
I've had no Silverlight update for weeks. Two new MSE ones today; both
flagged for me to download at my leisure.
The only way I can think of getting back to auto-updating the MSE
things is to change settings to "download and install" for all
updates. And I ain't a gonna do that, no way.
So I'm stuck with what MS have dumped on me.
Ed
Now you can see why MS have done this. Or, at least I can.
It's straddled us with a choice. Do you want MSE definition updates to
be downloaded and installed automatically; or do you want them to hang
around up there until you take action and do it yourself?
Cunning! But very translucent when you hold up to your eyes their policy
of forcing updates down and in, willy-nilly of individual choice.
Well, stay with me. Keep your update settings under personal control,
and just download the virus-definitions as they get advertised.
Ed
There are materials here for manual install. This would
be if your Windows Update was completely broken.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wdsi/definitions

As an experiment:

https://www.winhelponline.com/blog/updating-microsoft-security-essentials-using-command-line/

# Administrator Command Prompt
# Use double quotes to handle spaces in the path names.

"%ProgramFiles%\Microsoft Security Essentials\MpCmdRun.exe" /?

"%ProgramFiles%\Microsoft Security Essentials\MpCmdRun.exe" -SignatureUpdate

If that works, you could do a Scheduled Tasks (schtask???) via
the GUI and have your signatureUpdate done that way. *If* that's
what is really broken. You're going to have to confirm that
the MSE item in Windows Update, disappears after a SignatureUpdate,
to prove there isn't a *real* update coming in.

I don't know if a signature update, can also change the runtime
of MSE or not. An AV may need signatures or it may need runtime
code patching. A good design has both in say, a .msi file, and
is then transparent to the user. Sometimes, a reboot is needed
to finish the install of the runtime update (because killing
the running boss process, is frowned upon by the designers).

Maybe you can dream up a solution, without resorting to
"full auto" out of frustration. I never use "full auto"
on anything, if I can possibly avoid it.

The reason I'm familiar with the first link, is I have
a VM (not licensed) with Win10 running in it. I used a
certain technique to prevent Windows Update, and as a form
of punishment, Windows Defender gets into a snit during
an attempted Win10 session. "Feeding it a cookie" from the
wdsi page, tips it upright again, and eventually there
are enough CPU cycles to do something. But that's the
price you pay for putting roadblocks in the way. That VM
has successfully stayed at 16299 as a result. It's not
the version that mattered. Rather, it was an attempt to
see if the OS would try at some point, to "auto-repair"
itself. It easily has the materials, such as dism and sfc,
to effect a repair if it wanted to. It would only be
"three lines of code" so to speak.

Paul
Ed Cryer
2018-07-17 14:04:27 UTC
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Post by Paul
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Paul
Post by Art Todesco
Anyone know why there are so many Windows 7 updates coming
through? I've had updates everyday for about the last week.
Looping ?
Did you check your Windows Update history for
"failed" items ?
    Paul
All were successful and about half were MSE updates.  Also they
started on July 1 and there are updates for each day; and several
on some days.
Same here with the MSE updates. It started about the time you mention.
They used to update automatically.
I have "Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and
install them"; and it's been like that for years. So this change in
behaviour must have been occasioned by some MS amendment.
As you say, they now function just like Windows updates; and we get
the message saying updates available, leaving it up to us to download.
Ed
Yup, just got another one this AM.  It was optional "Silverlight"
and not optional MSE update.
My MSE updates now come as "Recommended". They used to be "Optional"
until 06.07.
I've had no Silverlight update for weeks. Two new MSE ones today;
both flagged for me to download at my leisure.
The only way I can think of getting back to auto-updating the MSE
things is to change settings to "download and install" for all
updates. And I ain't a gonna do that, no way.
So I'm stuck with what MS have dumped on me.
Ed
Now you can see why MS have done this. Or, at least I can.
It's straddled us with a choice. Do you want MSE definition updates to
be downloaded and installed automatically; or do you want them to hang
around up there until you take action and do it yourself?
Cunning! But very translucent when you hold up to your eyes their
policy of forcing updates down and in, willy-nilly of individual choice.
Well, stay with me. Keep your update settings under personal control,
and just download the virus-definitions as they get advertised.
Ed
There are materials here for manual install. This would
be if your Windows Update was completely broken.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wdsi/definitions
https://www.winhelponline.com/blog/updating-microsoft-security-essentials-using-command-line/
   # Administrator Command Prompt
   # Use double quotes to handle spaces in the path names.
   "%ProgramFiles%\Microsoft Security Essentials\MpCmdRun.exe" /?
   "%ProgramFiles%\Microsoft Security Essentials\MpCmdRun.exe"
-SignatureUpdate
If that works, you could do a Scheduled Tasks (schtask???) via
the GUI and have your signatureUpdate done that way. *If* that's
what is really broken. You're going to have to confirm that
the MSE item in Windows Update, disappears after a SignatureUpdate,
to prove there isn't a *real* update coming in.
I don't know if a signature update, can also change the runtime
of MSE or not. An AV may need signatures or it may need runtime
code patching. A good design has both in say, a .msi file, and
is then transparent to the user. Sometimes, a reboot is needed
to finish the install of the runtime update (because killing
the running boss process, is frowned upon by the designers).
Maybe you can dream up a solution, without resorting to
"full auto" out of frustration. I never use "full auto"
on anything, if I can possibly avoid it.
The reason I'm familiar with the first link, is I have
a VM (not licensed) with Win10 running in it. I used a
certain technique to prevent Windows Update, and as a form
of punishment, Windows Defender gets into a snit during
an attempted Win10 session. "Feeding it a cookie" from the
wdsi page, tips it upright again, and eventually there
are enough CPU cycles to do something. But that's the
price you pay for putting roadblocks in the way. That VM
has successfully stayed at 16299 as a result. It's not
the version that mattered. Rather, it was an attempt to
see if the OS would try at some point, to "auto-repair"
itself. It easily has the materials, such as dism and sfc,
to effect a repair if it wanted to. It would only be
"three lines of code" so to speak.
   Paul
I've decided to simply continue manually updating as they get found. The
service that checks daily and lets me know works well enough.
In fact (people, please restrain your contempt) I might switch to
auto-update; since for some time now I've been taking all Win7 updates.

Ed
Paul
2018-07-18 00:00:52 UTC
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Post by Ed Cryer
I've decided to simply continue manually updating as they get found. The
service that checks daily and lets me know works well enough.
In fact (people, please restrain your contempt) I might switch to
auto-update; since for some time now I've been taking all Win7 updates.
Ed
I don't think it's necessarily taking all the updates
that matters. It's the "circuit breaker" aspect that
you want. If an update is bricking computers, being a
day or two late to the party could pay off. It
depends on what you think of the QA level of the
updates, that determines whether full auto is
merited.

Paul
Boris
2018-07-18 03:14:06 UTC
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Post by Art Todesco
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Paul
Post by Art Todesco
Anyone know why there are so many Windows 7 updates coming through?
I've had updates everyday for about the last week.
Looping ?
Did you check your Windows Update history for
"failed" items ?
    Paul
All were successful and about half were MSE updates.  Also they
started on July 1 and there are updates for each day; and several on
some days.
Same here with the MSE updates. It started about the time you mention.
They used to update automatically.
I have "Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and
install them"; and it's been like that for years. So this change in
behaviour must have been occasioned by some MS amendment.
As you say, they now function just like Windows updates; and we get the
message saying updates available, leaving it up to us to download.
Ed
Yup, just got another one this AM. It was optional "Silverlight" and
not optional MSE update.
Art, can you tell us what is the Virus definition version and the spyware
definition version appear in your MSE program? I have both as 1.271.1136.0.

If I press the update button, I get that they are up to date. But, if I go
to Microsoft to download the 'current' version, I am presented with version
4.10.0209.0, not version 1.271.1136.0 (supposedly up to date?).

Long ago, I turned off automatic updating and have been set at "Check for
updates but let me decide whether to download and install them". Today, I've
got 43 important updates sitting, waiting to be downloaded/installed. I have
not downloaded or installed any in years (well, maybe a few Security and
Office updates). I suppose that if I did install those 43 updates, that
would trigger another heap of updates , etc, until I was up to date.

About the MSE updates...I have at least one, sometimes two, per day, going
back to 1/20/2015, showing up in "Review your update history". There is a
small gap between 6/14/2016 and 8/28/2016 in which there are other updates,
but no MSE updates. There are a few other updates which I intentionally
installed throughout the years.

But, I did not install any of the MSE updates. None.

Your post got me to look closer at this MSE update situation, because for
you, having so many MSE updates was unusual, but for me, it 'seems' to be
normal.

Also, from 1/20/2015, all MSE updates listed in "Review your update history"
were 'Optional'. Then, beginning on 7/5/2018, they became 'Recommended'.
Again, I did not download or install a single one.

So how did they get there? I've been watching the Windows Update
notification in the system tray more carefully since I read your post. It
(has)always (said) says "New updates are available", but normally there's
nothing in there that I want. Paying more attention shows me that at least
once a day, there is a MSE update listed as 'Important', and ready for
download. The latest was 1.271.1119.0. I expected this one to later appear
as installed in the "Review your update history", and disappear from Windows
Update. Sure enough, later in the day 1.271.1119.0 disappears from Windows
Update, and a new MSE update does appear in the "Review your update history",
but the new one it is not 1.271.1119.0. It is 1.271.1136.0 (installed at
2:33 PM). It seems that the version number that makes it to the installed
list is never the version that shows up in Windows Update.

Holy shit. As I am writing this, I went back to "Review your update
history", and there's a new MSE update, 1.271.1140.0 just installed at 7:18
PM. There are still 43 'Important' updates in Windows Update. Don't know if
1.271.1140.0 flowed through Windows Update while I wasn't watching, or not.

Anyway, what is the Virus definition version and the spyware definition
version appear in your MSE program?

I may try to get the most current version, since now I'm not sure about this
version, even though it reports up to date. I do have a tested clone and
backup image should things go south.
Paul
2018-07-18 03:32:02 UTC
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Post by Boris
Post by Art Todesco
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Paul
Post by Art Todesco
Anyone know why there are so many Windows 7 updates coming through?
I've had updates everyday for about the last week.
Looping ?
Did you check your Windows Update history for
"failed" items ?
   Paul
All were successful and about half were MSE updates. Also they
started on July 1 and there are updates for each day; and several on
some days.
Same here with the MSE updates. It started about the time you mention.
They used to update automatically.
I have "Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and
install them"; and it's been like that for years. So this change in
behaviour must have been occasioned by some MS amendment.
As you say, they now function just like Windows updates; and we get the
message saying updates available, leaving it up to us to download.
Ed
Yup, just got another one this AM. It was optional "Silverlight" and
not optional MSE update.
Art, can you tell us what is the Virus definition version and the spyware
definition version appear in your MSE program? I have both as 1.271.1136.0.
If I press the update button, I get that they are up to date. But, if I go
to Microsoft to download the 'current' version, I am presented with version
4.10.0209.0, not version 1.271.1136.0 (supposedly up to date?).
Long ago, I turned off automatic updating and have been set at "Check for
updates but let me decide whether to download and install them". Today, I've
got 43 important updates sitting, waiting to be downloaded/installed. I have
not downloaded or installed any in years (well, maybe a few Security and
Office updates). I suppose that if I did install those 43 updates, that
would trigger another heap of updates , etc, until I was up to date.
About the MSE updates...I have at least one, sometimes two, per day, going
back to 1/20/2015, showing up in "Review your update history". There is a
small gap between 6/14/2016 and 8/28/2016 in which there are other updates,
but no MSE updates. There are a few other updates which I intentionally
installed throughout the years.
But, I did not install any of the MSE updates. None.
Your post got me to look closer at this MSE update situation, because for
you, having so many MSE updates was unusual, but for me, it 'seems' to be
normal.
Also, from 1/20/2015, all MSE updates listed in "Review your update history"
were 'Optional'. Then, beginning on 7/5/2018, they became 'Recommended'.
Again, I did not download or install a single one.
So how did they get there? I've been watching the Windows Update
notification in the system tray more carefully since I read your post. It
(has)always (said) says "New updates are available", but normally there's
nothing in there that I want. Paying more attention shows me that at least
once a day, there is a MSE update listed as 'Important', and ready for
download. The latest was 1.271.1119.0. I expected this one to later appear
as installed in the "Review your update history", and disappear from Windows
Update. Sure enough, later in the day 1.271.1119.0 disappears from Windows
Update, and a new MSE update does appear in the "Review your update history",
but the new one it is not 1.271.1119.0. It is 1.271.1136.0 (installed at
2:33 PM). It seems that the version number that makes it to the installed
list is never the version that shows up in Windows Update.
Holy shit. As I am writing this, I went back to "Review your update
history", and there's a new MSE update, 1.271.1140.0 just installed at 7:18
PM. There are still 43 'Important' updates in Windows Update. Don't know if
1.271.1140.0 flowed through Windows Update while I wasn't watching, or not.
Anyway, what is the Virus definition version and the spyware definition
version appear in your MSE program?
I may try to get the most current version, since now I'm not sure about this
version, even though it reports up to date. I do have a tested clone and
backup image should things go south.
Why not backup, fire in every Windows Update under the
sun, note the version numbers after the reboot, then
roll back the system by restoring from backup kater ?

This is why you should keep your contents of C: small,
and transfer your movie collection from Downloads to a
D: drive. To separate the items when doing backups for this
kind of Windows maintenance.

A typical C: backup here takes ten minutes.

Paul
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-07-18 14:05:52 UTC
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In message <pimcbg$drl$***@dont-email.me>, Paul <***@needed.invalid>
writes:
[]
Post by Paul
Why not backup, fire in every Windows Update under the
sun, note the version numbers after the reboot, then
roll back the system by restoring from backup kater ?
I take it you mean "when it fails" (-:. [Otherwise, why would you be
rolling it back.]

The trouble is, some things that are broken by updates don't _show_
themselves for some time - by when you may have added lots more updates,
and it's very hard work (lots of restoring of images, trying, trying
this or that update, trying, ...) finding the culprit. Especially if
it's an interaction between two or more that's the cause.
Post by Paul
This is why you should keep your contents of C: small,
and transfer your movie collection from Downloads to a
D: drive. To separate the items when doing backups for this
kind of Windows maintenance.
Thoroughly agree (or D: partition in this case - I'd like to be
otherwise, but only one drive bay in this as in most laptops).
Post by Paul
A typical C: backup here takes ten minutes.
Paul
Bit more here as I only have USB2, but principle agreed. (My C: is
29.5GB used ATM.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Hadrian's Wall has never been a border between Scotland and England. It lies
entirely within England but, when it was built in AD 122 by the Romans as a
defence against the raiding Picts, the future English were still in Germany
and the Scottish were still in Ireland.
- Michael Cullen, Skye, in RT 2014/12/6-12
Paul
2018-07-18 18:15:25 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Bit more here as I only have USB2, but principle agreed.
A USB3 card would help a bit.

Laptops don't always give you much in the
way of options. On some machines here, my
best option is to back up via file sharing.
(GbE being faster than USB2.)

Paul
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-07-18 22:18:29 UTC
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Post by Paul
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Bit more here as I only have USB2, but principle agreed.
A USB3 card would help a bit.
Laptops don't always give you much in the
way of options. On some machines here, my
best option is to back up via file sharing.
(GbE being faster than USB2.)
Paul
I don't _think_ this laptop has a card slot (other than an SD one).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"I hate the guys that criticize the enterprise of other guys whose enterprise
has made them rise above the guys who criticize!" (W9BRD, former editor of
"How's DX?" column in "QST")
Ed Cryer
2018-07-18 12:30:53 UTC
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Post by Boris
Post by Art Todesco
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Paul
Post by Art Todesco
Anyone know why there are so many Windows 7 updates coming through?
I've had updates everyday for about the last week.
Looping ?
Did you check your Windows Update history for
"failed" items ?
    Paul
All were successful and about half were MSE updates.  Also they
started on July 1 and there are updates for each day; and several on
some days.
Same here with the MSE updates. It started about the time you mention.
They used to update automatically.
I have "Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and
install them"; and it's been like that for years. So this change in
behaviour must have been occasioned by some MS amendment.
As you say, they now function just like Windows updates; and we get the
message saying updates available, leaving it up to us to download.
Ed
Yup, just got another one this AM. It was optional "Silverlight" and
not optional MSE update.
Art, can you tell us what is the Virus definition version and the spyware
definition version appear in your MSE program? I have both as 1.271.1136.0.
If I press the update button, I get that they are up to date. But, if I go
to Microsoft to download the 'current' version, I am presented with version
4.10.0209.0, not version 1.271.1136.0 (supposedly up to date?).
Long ago, I turned off automatic updating and have been set at "Check for
updates but let me decide whether to download and install them". Today, I've
got 43 important updates sitting, waiting to be downloaded/installed. I have
not downloaded or installed any in years (well, maybe a few Security and
Office updates). I suppose that if I did install those 43 updates, that
would trigger another heap of updates , etc, until I was up to date.
About the MSE updates...I have at least one, sometimes two, per day, going
back to 1/20/2015, showing up in "Review your update history". There is a
small gap between 6/14/2016 and 8/28/2016 in which there are other updates,
but no MSE updates. There are a few other updates which I intentionally
installed throughout the years.
But, I did not install any of the MSE updates. None.
Your post got me to look closer at this MSE update situation, because for
you, having so many MSE updates was unusual, but for me, it 'seems' to be
normal.
Also, from 1/20/2015, all MSE updates listed in "Review your update history"
were 'Optional'. Then, beginning on 7/5/2018, they became 'Recommended'.
Again, I did not download or install a single one.
So how did they get there? I've been watching the Windows Update
notification in the system tray more carefully since I read your post. It
(has)always (said) says "New updates are available", but normally there's
nothing in there that I want. Paying more attention shows me that at least
once a day, there is a MSE update listed as 'Important', and ready for
download. The latest was 1.271.1119.0. I expected this one to later appear
as installed in the "Review your update history", and disappear from Windows
Update. Sure enough, later in the day 1.271.1119.0 disappears from Windows
Update, and a new MSE update does appear in the "Review your update history",
but the new one it is not 1.271.1119.0. It is 1.271.1136.0 (installed at
2:33 PM). It seems that the version number that makes it to the installed
list is never the version that shows up in Windows Update.
Holy shit. As I am writing this, I went back to "Review your update
history", and there's a new MSE update, 1.271.1140.0 just installed at 7:18
PM. There are still 43 'Important' updates in Windows Update. Don't know if
1.271.1140.0 flowed through Windows Update while I wasn't watching, or not.
Anyway, what is the Virus definition version and the spyware definition
version appear in your MSE program?
I may try to get the most current version, since now I'm not sure about this
version, even though it reports up to date. I do have a tested clone and
backup image should things go south.
I have 1.271.1173.0 for both, updated 7 mins ago.

Ed
Boris
2018-07-18 14:39:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
Post by Art Todesco
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Paul
Post by Art Todesco
Anyone know why there are so many Windows 7 updates coming through?
I've had updates everyday for about the last week.
Looping ?
Did you check your Windows Update history for
"failed" items ?
    Paul
All were successful and about half were MSE updates.  Also they
started on July 1 and there are updates for each day; and several on
some days.
Same here with the MSE updates. It started about the time you mention.
They used to update automatically.
I have "Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and
install them"; and it's been like that for years. So this change in
behaviour must have been occasioned by some MS amendment.
As you say, they now function just like Windows updates; and we get the
message saying updates available, leaving it up to us to download.
Ed
Yup, just got another one this AM. It was optional "Silverlight" and
not optional MSE update.
Art, can you tell us what is the Virus definition version and the spyware
definition version appear in your MSE program? I have both as 1.271.1136.0.
If I press the update button, I get that they are up to date. But, if I go
to Microsoft to download the 'current' version, I am presented with version
4.10.0209.0, not version 1.271.1136.0 (supposedly up to date?).
Long ago, I turned off automatic updating and have been set at "Check for
updates but let me decide whether to download and install them".
Today, I've
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
got 43 important updates sitting, waiting to be downloaded/installed.
I have
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
not downloaded or installed any in years (well, maybe a few Security and
Office updates). I suppose that if I did install those 43 updates, that
would trigger another heap of updates , etc, until I was up to date.
About the MSE updates...I have at least one, sometimes two, per day, going
back to 1/20/2015, showing up in "Review your update history". There is a
small gap between 6/14/2016 and 8/28/2016 in which there are other updates,
but no MSE updates. There are a few other updates which I
intentionally
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
installed throughout the years.
But, I did not install any of the MSE updates. None.
Your post got me to look closer at this MSE update situation, because for
you, having so many MSE updates was unusual, but for me, it 'seems' to be
normal.
Also, from 1/20/2015, all MSE updates listed in "Review your update history"
were 'Optional'. Then, beginning on 7/5/2018, they became
'Recommended'.
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
Again, I did not download or install a single one.
So how did they get there? I've been watching the Windows Update
notification in the system tray more carefully since I read your post.
It
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
(has)always (said) says "New updates are available", but normally there's
nothing in there that I want. Paying more attention shows me that at least
once a day, there is a MSE update listed as 'Important', and ready for
download. The latest was 1.271.1119.0. I expected this one to later appear
as installed in the "Review your update history", and disappear from Windows
Update. Sure enough, later in the day 1.271.1119.0 disappears from Windows
Update, and a new MSE update does appear in the "Review your update history",
but the new one it is not 1.271.1119.0. It is 1.271.1136.0 (installed at
2:33 PM). It seems that the version number that makes it to the installed
list is never the version that shows up in Windows Update.
Holy shit. As I am writing this, I went back to "Review your update
history", and there's a new MSE update, 1.271.1140.0 just installed at 7:18
PM. There are still 43 'Important' updates in Windows Update. Don't know if
1.271.1140.0 flowed through Windows Update while I wasn't watching, or not.
Anyway, what is the Virus definition version and the spyware definition
version appear in your MSE program?
I may try to get the most current version, since now I'm not sure about this
version, even though it reports up to date. I do have a tested clone and
backup image should things go south.
I have 1.271.1173.0 for both, updated 7 mins ago.
Ed
Got up this morning, and I still have 1.271.1140.0 running the show, but
1.271.1166.0 waiting in the wings.
Ed Cryer
2018-07-18 17:58:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Boris
Post by Ed Cryer
I have 1.271.1173.0 for both, updated 7 mins ago.
Ed
Got up this morning, and I still have 1.271.1140.0 running the show, but
1.271.1166.0 waiting in the wings.
Blimey! I just did a Windows Update check and got 1.271.1182.0.

This all points to an inescapable conclusion. MS are releasing every new
added virus definition as an update! And an "important" update! And it
depends entirely on your local check-for-updates setting as to how
frequently you get them.
I think my update-checker calls in once a day. If I ever get any
indication that it's doing it more often, I'll do a system restore
immediately, and then find the offending KB and hide it.

Ed
Paul
2018-07-18 18:24:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
Post by Ed Cryer
I have 1.271.1173.0 for both, updated 7 mins ago.
Ed
Got up this morning, and I still have 1.271.1140.0 running the show, but
1.271.1166.0 waiting in the wings.
Blimey! I just did a Windows Update check and got 1.271.1182.0.
This all points to an inescapable conclusion. MS are releasing every new
added virus definition as an update! And an "important" update! And it
depends entirely on your local check-for-updates setting as to how
frequently you get them.
I think my update-checker calls in once a day. If I ever get any
indication that it's doing it more often, I'll do a system restore
immediately, and then find the offending KB and hide it.
Ed
https://www.thewindowsclub.com/automatic-updates-detection-frequency

"The Windows operating system is set to check if Windows Updates
are available periodically. By default, such checks are set at
every 22 hours. In practice, however, the checks may take place
anytime between 17.6 hours and 22 hours. But you can make Windows
check for Updates faster."

So there's something for you to check.

Paul
Boris
2018-07-18 19:43:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
Post by Ed Cryer
I have 1.271.1173.0 for both, updated 7 mins ago.
Ed
Got up this morning, and I still have 1.271.1140.0 running the show, but
1.271.1166.0 waiting in the wings.
Blimey! I just did a Windows Update check and got 1.271.1182.0.
This all points to an inescapable conclusion. MS are releasing every new
added virus definition as an update! And an "important" update! And it
depends entirely on your local check-for-updates setting as to how
frequently you get them.
I think my update-checker calls in once a day. If I ever get any
indication that it's doing it more often, I'll do a system restore
immediately, and then find the offending KB and hide it.
Ed
Ed,

Are you manually installing the MSE updates that appear in your Windows
Update? If so, do they then appear in your "View update history" window?

For me, I have never manually installed a MSE update that appeared in my
Windows Update. All the MSE updates that appear in my "View update history"
have gotten there on their own, and have never appeared in my Windows Update.

My MSE scheduled scan is set for "Around: 1:00 PM", and "Check for the latest
virus and spyware definitionis before running a scheduled scan".

I just noticed that on the Home tab of my MSE, "Last scan: 7/17/2018 PM",
which is the exact time that 1.271.1136.0 shows as the time it was installed
in View update history.

Because only MSE updates that appear in the MSE program show up installed in
View update history, and none of the MSE updates in Windows Updates ever do
show up in View update history, I suspect that it's the MSE program, that is
set to look for updates right before running it's scheduled scan at around
1:00 PM, if it finds an update, it installs it, making it show up in View
update history.

Then (and this is entirely speculation), the MSE update that was in Windows
Update disappears after the next look for Windows updates, since the MSE
update now installed is newer than the one sitting in Windows Update.

Why are there are sometimes two MSE updates in View update history? I'd have
to noodle that one some more.

In the end, I think this is one of those much-a-do about nothings. I think
we'd spend a lot of time, but eventually figure this out, then not make any
settings or configuration changes, and then forget about it all together in a
week or so.

Perhaps of some interest:

https://postimg.cc/gallery/1jmw3q36k/

Boris
Ed Cryer
2018-07-18 21:15:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Boris
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
Post by Ed Cryer
I have 1.271.1173.0 for both, updated 7 mins ago.
Ed
Got up this morning, and I still have 1.271.1140.0 running the show, but
1.271.1166.0 waiting in the wings.
Blimey! I just did a Windows Update check and got 1.271.1182.0.
This all points to an inescapable conclusion. MS are releasing every new
added virus definition as an update! And an "important" update! And it
depends entirely on your local check-for-updates setting as to how
frequently you get them.
I think my update-checker calls in once a day. If I ever get any
indication that it's doing it more often, I'll do a system restore
immediately, and then find the offending KB and hide it.
Ed
Ed,
Are you manually installing the MSE updates that appear in your Windows
Update? If so, do they then appear in your "View update history" window?
For me, I have never manually installed a MSE update that appeared in my
Windows Update. All the MSE updates that appear in my "View update history"
have gotten there on their own, and have never appeared in my Windows Update.
My MSE scheduled scan is set for "Around: 1:00 PM", and "Check for the latest
virus and spyware definitionis before running a scheduled scan".
I just noticed that on the Home tab of my MSE, "Last scan: 7/17/2018 PM",
which is the exact time that 1.271.1136.0 shows as the time it was installed
in View update history.
Because only MSE updates that appear in the MSE program show up installed in
View update history, and none of the MSE updates in Windows Updates ever do
show up in View update history, I suspect that it's the MSE program, that is
set to look for updates right before running it's scheduled scan at around
1:00 PM, if it finds an update, it installs it, making it show up in View
update history.
Then (and this is entirely speculation), the MSE update that was in Windows
Update disappears after the next look for Windows updates, since the MSE
update now installed is newer than the one sitting in Windows Update.
Why are there are sometimes two MSE updates in View update history? I'd have
to noodle that one some more.
In the end, I think this is one of those much-a-do about nothings. I think
we'd spend a lot of time, but eventually figure this out, then not make any
settings or configuration changes, and then forget about it all together in a
week or so.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/1jmw3q36k/
Boris
My settings have scheduled scan switched off.
Your having a daily scan scheduled fulfils the daily download of updates.

I don't have any duplicate installs of definitions. And I can't figure
out why you do. Perhaps it's the clash of having two different MS
programs checking for updates daily. I've switched on a daily scan at
1-00pm; to see what happens.

Ed
Boris
2018-07-19 00:19:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
Post by Ed Cryer
I have 1.271.1173.0 for both, updated 7 mins ago.
Ed
Got up this morning, and I still have 1.271.1140.0 running the show, but
1.271.1166.0 waiting in the wings.
Blimey! I just did a Windows Update check and got 1.271.1182.0.
This all points to an inescapable conclusion. MS are releasing every new
added virus definition as an update! And an "important" update! And it
depends entirely on your local check-for-updates setting as to how
frequently you get them.
I think my update-checker calls in once a day. If I ever get any
indication that it's doing it more often, I'll do a system restore
immediately, and then find the offending KB and hide it.
Ed
Ed,
Are you manually installing the MSE updates that appear in your Windows
Update? If so, do they then appear in your "View update history" window?
For me, I have never manually installed a MSE update that appeared in my
Windows Update. All the MSE updates that appear in my "View update history"
have gotten there on their own, and have never appeared in my Windows Update.
My MSE scheduled scan is set for "Around: 1:00 PM", and "Check for the latest
virus and spyware definitionis before running a scheduled scan".
I just noticed that on the Home tab of my MSE, "Last scan: 7/17/2018 PM",
which is the exact time that 1.271.1136.0 shows as the time it was installed
in View update history.
Because only MSE updates that appear in the MSE program show up installed in
View update history, and none of the MSE updates in Windows Updates ever do
show up in View update history, I suspect that it's the MSE program, that is
set to look for updates right before running it's scheduled scan at around
1:00 PM, if it finds an update, it installs it, making it show up in View
update history.
Then (and this is entirely speculation), the MSE update that was in Windows
Update disappears after the next look for Windows updates, since the MSE
update now installed is newer than the one sitting in Windows Update.
Why are there are sometimes two MSE updates in View update history?
I'd have
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
to noodle that one some more.
In the end, I think this is one of those much-a-do about nothings. I think
we'd spend a lot of time, but eventually figure this out, then not make any
settings or configuration changes, and then forget about it all together in a
week or so.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/1jmw3q36k/
Boris
My settings have scheduled scan switched off.
Your having a daily scan scheduled fulfils the daily download of updates.
I don't have any duplicate installs of definitions. And I can't figure
out why you do. Perhaps it's the clash of having two different MS
programs checking for updates daily. I've switched on a daily scan at
1-00pm; to see what happens.
Ed
Thanks for trying that. I now have 1.271.1182.0 installed at 1:18PM, the
exact time that the MSE program tells me it did it's last scan, and the
MSE update that was sitting in Windows Update has disappeared, as
expected.

I have turned off scheduled scans to see what happens here.
Ed Cryer
2018-07-19 21:16:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Boris
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
Post by Ed Cryer
I have 1.271.1173.0 for both, updated 7 mins ago.
Ed
Got up this morning, and I still have 1.271.1140.0 running the show,
but
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
1.271.1166.0 waiting in the wings.
Blimey! I just did a Windows Update check and got 1.271.1182.0.
This all points to an inescapable conclusion. MS are releasing every
new
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
Post by Ed Cryer
added virus definition as an update! And an "important" update! And it
depends entirely on your local check-for-updates setting as to how
frequently you get them.
I think my update-checker calls in once a day. If I ever get any
indication that it's doing it more often, I'll do a system restore
immediately, and then find the offending KB and hide it.
Ed
Ed,
Are you manually installing the MSE updates that appear in your Windows
Update? If so, do they then appear in your "View update history"
window?
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
For me, I have never manually installed a MSE update that appeared in
my
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
Windows Update. All the MSE updates that appear in my "View update
history"
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
have gotten there on their own, and have never appeared in my Windows
Update.
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
My MSE scheduled scan is set for "Around: 1:00 PM", and "Check for the
latest
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
virus and spyware definitionis before running a scheduled scan".
I just noticed that on the Home tab of my MSE, "Last scan: 7/17/2018
PM",
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
which is the exact time that 1.271.1136.0 shows as the time it was
installed
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
in View update history.
Because only MSE updates that appear in the MSE program show up
installed in
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
View update history, and none of the MSE updates in Windows Updates
ever do
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
show up in View update history, I suspect that it's the MSE program,
that is
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
set to look for updates right before running it's scheduled scan at
around
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
1:00 PM, if it finds an update, it installs it, making it show up in
View
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
update history.
Then (and this is entirely speculation), the MSE update that was in
Windows
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
Update disappears after the next look for Windows updates, since the
MSE
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
update now installed is newer than the one sitting in Windows Update.
Why are there are sometimes two MSE updates in View update history?
I'd have
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
to noodle that one some more.
In the end, I think this is one of those much-a-do about nothings. I
think
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
we'd spend a lot of time, but eventually figure this out, then not make
any
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
settings or configuration changes, and then forget about it all
together in a
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
week or so.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/1jmw3q36k/
Boris
My settings have scheduled scan switched off.
Your having a daily scan scheduled fulfils the daily download of
updates.
Post by Ed Cryer
I don't have any duplicate installs of definitions. And I can't figure
out why you do. Perhaps it's the clash of having two different MS
programs checking for updates daily. I've switched on a daily scan at
1-00pm; to see what happens.
Ed
Thanks for trying that. I now have 1.271.1182.0 installed at 1:18PM, the
exact time that the MSE program tells me it did it's last scan, and the
MSE update that was sitting in Windows Update has disappeared, as
expected.
I have turned off scheduled scans to see what happens here.
Here's a cute, amusing comment on MSE updates.
My Reliability Monitor contains nothing more than daily informational
events about them;
https://goo.gl/K25H5w

Ed
Boris
2018-07-20 02:14:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
Post by Ed Cryer
I have 1.271.1173.0 for both, updated 7 mins ago.
Ed
Got up this morning, and I still have 1.271.1140.0 running the show,
but
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
1.271.1166.0 waiting in the wings.
Blimey! I just did a Windows Update check and got 1.271.1182.0.
This all points to an inescapable conclusion. MS are releasing every
new
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
Post by Ed Cryer
added virus definition as an update! And an "important" update! And
it depends entirely on your local check-for-updates setting as to
how frequently you get them.
I think my update-checker calls in once a day. If I ever get any
indication that it's doing it more often, I'll do a system restore
immediately, and then find the offending KB and hide it.
Ed
Ed,
Are you manually installing the MSE updates that appear in your
Windows Update? If so, do they then appear in your "View update
history"
window?
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
For me, I have never manually installed a MSE update that appeared in
my
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
Windows Update. All the MSE updates that appear in my "View update
history"
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
have gotten there on their own, and have never appeared in my Windows
Update.
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
My MSE scheduled scan is set for "Around: 1:00 PM", and "Check for the
latest
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
virus and spyware definitionis before running a scheduled scan".
I just noticed that on the Home tab of my MSE, "Last scan: 7/17/2018
PM",
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
which is the exact time that 1.271.1136.0 shows as the time it was
installed
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
in View update history.
Because only MSE updates that appear in the MSE program show up
installed in
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
View update history, and none of the MSE updates in Windows Updates
ever do
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
show up in View update history, I suspect that it's the MSE program,
that is
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
set to look for updates right before running it's scheduled scan at
around
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
1:00 PM, if it finds an update, it installs it, making it show up in
View
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
update history.
Then (and this is entirely speculation), the MSE update that was in
Windows
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
Update disappears after the next look for Windows updates, since the
MSE
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
update now installed is newer than the one sitting in Windows Update.
Why are there are sometimes two MSE updates in View update history?
I'd have
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
to noodle that one some more.
In the end, I think this is one of those much-a-do about nothings. I
think
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
we'd spend a lot of time, but eventually figure this out, then not make
any
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
settings or configuration changes, and then forget about it all
together in a
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Boris
week or so.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/1jmw3q36k/
Boris
My settings have scheduled scan switched off.
Your having a daily scan scheduled fulfils the daily download of
updates.
Post by Ed Cryer
I don't have any duplicate installs of definitions. And I can't figure
out why you do. Perhaps it's the clash of having two different MS
programs checking for updates daily. I've switched on a daily scan at
1-00pm; to see what happens.
Ed
Thanks for trying that. I now have 1.271.1182.0 installed at 1:18PM,
the exact time that the MSE program tells me it did it's last scan, and
the MSE update that was sitting in Windows Update has disappeared, as
expected.
I have turned off scheduled scans to see what happens here.
Here's a cute, amusing comment on MSE updates.
My Reliability Monitor contains nothing more than daily informational
events about them;
https://goo.gl/K25H5w
Ed
Re: Your Reliability Monitor, mine is similar, but many days there are two
MSE updates that were installed. They are the ones appearing in the View
update history screen.

Something interesting occurred. As I said, when I had MSE scanning on
daily around 1:00 PM, the MSE update version that showed in the MSE
program itself was the same as the version that appeared in the View
update history screen, and never the update that appeared in Windows
Update.

I turned off MSE scanning, since it was looking for updates b efore
scanning, to see if that stopped MSE updates from appearing in View update
history. It did, and there have been no new versions showing in the MSE
program. Both locations still show the version (1.271.1198.0) that was
installed immediately before I turned off scanning.

Here's the interesting part. I looked in Windows Update, and there was an
MSE update 1.273.61.0. I did not download it, but I opened the MSE
program, left scan disabled, and pressed the 'Update' button. The MSE
program went out and updated itself to the version that was sitting in
Windows Update, 1.273.61.0 (both virus and spyware definition).

Reliability Monitor does not show this new MSE version 1.273.61.0. It
still shows 1.271.1198.0.

I did a cold reboot (power off, wait a while, boot), and Windows Update
popped up showing version 1.273.61.0 gone, but with yet another MSE update
version 1.273.66.0 ready for download. I did not download it, but went to
the MSE program, still showing 1.273.61.0, and pressed update. As
predicted, 1.273.66.0 was now installed as both virus and spyware
definition. But, this version didn't show up in the Reliability Monitor
or View update history. Both locations still show the version
(1.271.1198.0) that was installed immediately before I turned off
scanning.

If in the Windows Update program, I press Check for updates, 1.273.66.0
disappears. I'm sure a new one will appear tonight/tomorrow. I see how
the Windows Update and the MSE program interact, but still don't know why
both sometimes supply two updates (or more). But, I'm done with this
experiment.

Thanks, Ed.

Boris
c***@optonline.net
2018-07-22 20:51:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
For whatever it might be worth :

7/21/18
Important
2018-07
Security Monthly Quality Rollup
for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems
KB 4338818 ( failed )

7/21/18
Optional
2018-07
Preview of Monthly Quality Rollup
for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems
KB 4338821 ( failed )

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