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Fremantle
2018-07-29 01:23:54 UTC
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Libre or Open Office.

And why ?

Thank you !

I have a large PDF that I saved to a .DOC file so I can edit it.
The PDF contains many images and tables so I am hoping to maintain all
of that so as to minimize rewrite.

I will be changing paragraph text only.
Ant
2018-07-29 01:53:36 UTC
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LibreOffice since it is a fork of OpenOffice and updated. They can edit
PDFs? That's news to me. I just tried it. Wow! Awesome and thanks.
Post by Fremantle
Libre or Open Office.
And why ?
Thank you !
I have a large PDF that I saved to a .DOC file so I can edit it.
The PDF contains many images and tables so I am hoping to maintain all
of that so as to minimize rewrite.
I will be changing paragraph text only.
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J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-07-29 09:12:05 UTC
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Post by Ant
LibreOffice since it is a fork of OpenOffice and updated. They can edit
PDFs? That's news to me. I just tried it. Wow! Awesome and thanks.
Interesting to know, but Fremantle didn't say he was going to edit the
.pdf - he said he'd saved it as a .doc file.
Post by Ant
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general Fremantle
Post by Fremantle
Libre or Open Office.
And why ?
Thank you !
I have a large PDF that I saved to a .DOC file so I can edit it.
What did you use to save it as a .doc file?
Post by Ant
Post by Fremantle
The PDF contains many images and tables so I am hoping to maintain all
of that so as to minimize rewrite.
I will be changing paragraph text only.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of
them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for
science intact. - Carl Sagan (interview w. Psychology Today published '96-1-1)
VanguardLH
2018-07-29 02:09:38 UTC
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Post by Fremantle
Libre or Open Office.
You want LibreOffice (a supported fork of OpenOffice). OpenOffice, was
discontinued by Corel back in 2011 and dumped, er, donated to the Apache
Foundation (and why OpenOffice became Apache OpenOffice) to keep
available an archived copy of that old software.
Carl Kaufmann
2018-07-29 04:48:40 UTC
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Post by VanguardLH
Post by Fremantle
Libre or Open Office.
You want LibreOffice (a supported fork of OpenOffice). OpenOffice, was
discontinued by Corel back in 2011 and dumped, er, donated to the Apache
Foundation (and why OpenOffice became Apache OpenOffice) to keep
available an archived copy of that old software.
You mean Oracle, rather than Corel, but otherwise correct.
Paul
2018-07-29 06:57:12 UTC
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Post by Carl Kaufmann
Post by VanguardLH
Post by Fremantle
Libre or Open Office.
You want LibreOffice (a supported fork of OpenOffice). OpenOffice, was
discontinued by Corel back in 2011 and dumped, er, donated to the Apache
Foundation (and why OpenOffice became Apache OpenOffice) to keep
available an archived copy of that old software.
You mean Oracle, rather than Corel, but otherwise correct.
1986 StarDivision StarOffice
1999 Sun Microsystems buys StarDivision.
StarOffice becomes OpenOffice.
2009 Oracle buys Sun.
Some forking happens. OpenOffice to Apache OpenOffice.
OpenOffice to LibreOffice etc.
Loading Image...

The diagram there doesn't necessarily have everything in it.

*******

And don't expect miracles when editing PDF. A person should
always attempt to get source (.doc or .docx) when editing
documents, as this gives the most accurate reproduction
and ability to edit. Editing a derivative such as a PDF
is bound to have cases where an object cannot be edited
when you really needed it.

Paul
dave61430
2018-07-29 14:03:37 UTC
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Post by Carl Kaufmann
Post by VanguardLH
Post by Fremantle
Libre or Open Office.
You want LibreOffice (a supported fork of OpenOffice). OpenOffice,
was discontinued by Corel back in 2011 and dumped, er, donated to the
Apache Foundation (and why OpenOffice became Apache OpenOffice) to
keep available an archived copy of that old software.
You mean Oracle, rather than Corel, but otherwise correct.
1986 StarDivision StarOffice 1999 Sun Microsystems buys StarDivision.
StarOffice becomes OpenOffice.
2009 Oracle buys Sun.
Some forking happens. OpenOffice to Apache OpenOffice.
OpenOffice to LibreOffice etc.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/
StarOffice_major_derivatives.svg/1100px-
StarOffice_major_derivatives.svg.png
The diagram there doesn't necessarily have everything in it.
*******
And don't expect miracles when editing PDF. A person should always
attempt to get source (.doc or .docx) when editing documents, as this
gives the most accurate reproduction and ability to edit. Editing a
derivative such as a PDF is bound to have cases where an object cannot
be edited when you really needed it.
Paul
Well he isn't editing the .pdf which is a good thing for despite claims
to the contrary, none of the software that claims to do this only do so
in certain cases. I suspect most software that exports to .pdf will read
it back, but I haven't tested this. I've had .pdf's that were editable in
one or another of the packages to which I have access and in some cases
not at all. I've no idea why some do and some don't, maybe depends on how
the .pdf was generated.
I have used Libre Office, Serif PagePlus in windows and Scribus to name a
few.
Note, almost all editing programs these days will export to .pdf as does
my bank statements. As an exercise, try exporting the same document using
one of the many printer drivers available. You will find while they all
do the job, file sizes vary widely. For file size, Scribus is the worst,
creating a huge 350mb file when PagePlus produces a 50mb file for the
same publication. A Scribus forum poster claimed Scribus more accurately
rendered the text attributes but I'm not sure. I can print the Scribus
file using one of the .pdf print drivers, but since the file size isn't a
problem for the local print shops, I leave things as are. The downsize to
large files is if you want to email to a group.
It would be interesting to know how genuine Adobe products handle this.
Paul
2018-07-29 15:56:07 UTC
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Post by dave61430
Well he isn't editing the .pdf which is a good thing for despite claims
to the contrary, none of the software that claims to do this only do so
in certain cases. I suspect most software that exports to .pdf will read
it back, but I haven't tested this. I've had .pdf's that were editable in
one or another of the packages to which I have access and in some cases
not at all. I've no idea why some do and some don't, maybe depends on how
the .pdf was generated.
I have used Libre Office, Serif PagePlus in windows and Scribus to name a
few.
Note, almost all editing programs these days will export to .pdf as does
my bank statements. As an exercise, try exporting the same document using
one of the many printer drivers available. You will find while they all
do the job, file sizes vary widely. For file size, Scribus is the worst,
creating a huge 350mb file when PagePlus produces a 50mb file for the
same publication. A Scribus forum poster claimed Scribus more accurately
rendered the text attributes but I'm not sure. I can print the Scribus
file using one of the .pdf print drivers, but since the file size isn't a
problem for the local print shops, I leave things as are. The downsize to
large files is if you want to email to a group.
It would be interesting to know how genuine Adobe products handle this.
Fonts can use "subset". Check the PDF information
page, to see if full fonts are embedded, versus
subset. Subset is used a lot for "legal reasons"
to prevent "font theft". A decent PDF editor may
refuse to edit text on a page. Why ? A subset
font prevents changing any letters.

There was a time, when a document would have 2MB
of fonts per printed page, and the document would be huge.

Images can be stored in the PDF at very high resolution.
This becomes obvious when zooming into 3200% and the
image is sharp and detailed. But this also wastes a lot of
bytes. FrameMaker or FrameBuilder was good for this
kind of work.

B&W images can have the CCITT FAX 4 compressor applied
to them. This is an output option on Acrobat Distiller.
That's a good choice for B&W scans to PDF for preservation
of old paper documentation.

Color images have available compressors too.

Reducing resolution of images can save a lot
of bytes. In some industries, this is epidemic.
Take a router hardware manual as an example.
It might have a hundred screen shots of the web
interface, absolutely none of which are readable.
Why even have a manual if you insist on doing that ?

With the right tools, the user is in control of
the byte count and the image quality.

To see just how efficient PDF can be, find a couple
of the Adobe reference manuals. Like PLRM or one
of the versions of the PDF standard. You can have
a thousand pages of printed material, in a 10MB file.
Obviously, they put the effort into that, using
the document as a "showpiece" of their craft.

Paul
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-07-29 23:55:47 UTC
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In message <pjko2o$ss9$***@dont-email.me>, Paul <***@needed.invalid>
writes:
[]
Post by Paul
Fonts can use "subset". Check the PDF information
page, to see if full fonts are embedded, versus
subset. Subset is used a lot for "legal reasons"
to prevent "font theft". A decent PDF editor may
refuse to edit text on a page. Why ? A subset
font prevents changing any letters.
[]
Presumably, in theory at least, it ought to be possible to change it as
long as you use no letters that aren't in the subset - though I wouldn't
be surprised if most things don't allow any changes at all.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of
them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for
science intact. - Carl Sagan (interview w. Psychology Today published '96-1-1)
Paul
2018-07-30 05:26:06 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Paul
Fonts can use "subset". Check the PDF information
page, to see if full fonts are embedded, versus
subset. Subset is used a lot for "legal reasons"
to prevent "font theft". A decent PDF editor may
refuse to edit text on a page. Why ? A subset
font prevents changing any letters.
[]
Presumably, in theory at least, it ought to be possible to change it as
long as you use no letters that aren't in the subset - though I wouldn't
be surprised if most things don't allow any changes at all.
Well, I've run into this, and it doesn't offer you the
opportunity even, to enter letters from the existing character set.
It just knows it's a subset and if there is any risk at
all of typing a non-existent character, it doesn't
take that risk. Or offer to fix it (like if the font
was a subset of Times-Roman and Times-Roman was available
on the platform).

Paul
Nemo
2018-07-29 19:58:19 UTC
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Post by VanguardLH
Post by Fremantle
Libre or Open Office.
You want LibreOffice (a supported fork of OpenOffice). OpenOffice, was
discontinued by Corel back in 2011 and dumped, er, donated to the Apache
Foundation (and why OpenOffice became Apache OpenOffice) to keep
available an archived copy of that old software.
according to
<https://blogs.apache.org/OOo/entry/announcing-apache-openoffice-4-11>
the most recent version is 4.1.5 issued in 30 December 2017. I believe
there've been some 'fixes' since then. there is also an active mailing list.

fjd
Ken Blake
2018-07-29 14:35:38 UTC
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On Sat, 28 Jul 2018 18:23:54 -0700, Fremantle
Post by Fremantle
Libre or Open Office.
And why ?
Thank you !
You want to know which is better? Here's my recommendation:

Don't ask. Ignore everyone's opinion. They are both free. Try them
both and decide for yourself which one *you* like better.
Mayayana
2018-07-29 15:15:11 UTC
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"Ken Blake" <***@invalid.news.com> wrote

| You want to know which is better? Here's my recommendation:
|
| Don't ask. Ignore everyone's opinion. They are both free. Try them
| both and decide for yourself which one *you* like better.

Anyone can, of course, try both. But it doesn't
mean they don't think for themselves just
because they solicit opinions.

Also, this is a special case. It's not just brand x vs brand y.
As I understand it, most of the OO people went to LO
when Oracle bought OO. There seems to be wide agreement
that LO has had a lot more work put into it. (Someone else
may have a more complete version of the story.)

A note for the XP group:

LO 6 won't run on XP. 5 is the latest. I don't expect
you're missing much. I've been updating for years and
see no notable changes. It's obscenely bloated. It's
free. It works pretty well. But it doesn't perfectly
render docx is there's any layout complexity. All
of those things have been true for as long as I can
remember.

As for OO, they won't let a visitor see the options
without javascript enabled. There's only a note
that you'll have to go fishing around in the version
storage online.... Apparently they've broken their site
so that they can use script to guess a visitor's OS.
For your convenience. :) Woe to anyone spoofing that.
Paul
2018-07-29 16:11:38 UTC
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Post by Mayayana
LO 6 won't run on XP. 5 is the latest. I don't expect
you're missing much. I've been updating for years and
see no notable changes. It's obscenely bloated. It's
free.
In my opinion, it's structured well. They decomposed
the problem well. I looked at the mess that represents
all the versions of Office that Microsoft ever produced,
and they seem to have dealt with that well.

However, the "implementation" within individual modules leaves
a lot to be desired.

It's failed every "quality" test I've tried on it
here, and I wasn't even trying to break it. For example,
one document I saved for output, the output was "double-printed"
in the output file. It was rendered twice.

I agree with the "no notable changes" comment.
Things change, but it doesn't leave a strong
impression of being "fixed". It's kinda like
a rotating bug generator. There's more things
that can break, than humans can keep up with.

What does that tell us ? That the developers
are not document specialists and are general
programmers ? That there aren't enough PhDs
working there ? I don't really know what to
make of it all, in terms of constructive
criticism.

*******

To give an example by analogy from the FOSS
world, take Firefox and the Firefox choice
of print engine. I don't know what the first print
engine was called exactly, but one day the Firefox team
decided to switch to Cairo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_3.0

"Because of Cairo's lack of support for Windows 95,
Windows 98, Windows ME, and Windows NT (versions 4.0
and below), and because Microsoft ended support for
Windows 98 and Windows ME on July 11, 2006, Firefox 3
does not run on those operating systems."

It was worse than that. At the time, Cairo wasn't
even finished. Some output tasks in Firefox were
rendered as bitmaps (slow, inefficient). By gluing
in some other FOSS software, a software that
wasn't finished, what does that say about
your developers ? Probably not skilled in the
craft of printing ? But why include an unfinished
piece of software ? Wouldn't it have made sense
to cut over when the Cairo team said "all Done" ???

That's the kind of feeling I get from LibreOffice
some times when it crashes.

And the choice of OpenGL inside LibreOffice, it
seems they didn't do enough "special casing"
in the code, to compensate for the differences
("quirks") in the Windows OpenGL. For one of the
design problems in LibreOffice, it took about
the fourth version of Win10 before the windows
side of the problem was fixed (that's the update
where Task Manager gets a GPU pane for GPU usage).
And that only works if you have a very modern
video card ("bakery fresh driver"). I haven't had
a chance to see that feature yet, as my video
card is too old.

Paul
Mayayana
2018-07-29 17:16:04 UTC
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"Paul" <***@needed.invalid> wrote

| To give an example by analogy from the FOSS
| world, take Firefox and the Firefox choice
| of print engine. I don't know what the first print
| engine was called exactly, but one day the Firefox team
| decided to switch to Cairo.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_3.0
|
| "Because of Cairo's lack of support for Windows 95,
| Windows 98, Windows ME, and Windows NT (versions 4.0
| and below), and because Microsoft ended support for
| Windows 98 and Windows ME on July 11, 2006, Firefox 3
| does not run on those operating systems."
|
| It was worse than that. At the time, Cairo wasn't
| even finished. Some output tasks in Firefox were
| rendered as bitmaps (slow, inefficient). By gluing
| in some other FOSS software, a software that
| wasn't finished, what does that say about
| your developers ? Probably not skilled in the
| craft of printing ? But why include an unfinished
| piece of software ? Wouldn't it have made sense
| to cut over when the Cairo team said "all Done" ???
|

That's an interesting point. I don't know much
about Cairo, but I do know the programming world
often falls for irrational fads. (Java, XML, JSON,
agile programming, top ten language contests, etc).
I suspect part of the attraction to Cairo may also
be the ability to cut out a lot of cross-platform
work. They want to support Mac, Linux and Windows
without having to actually write the native code.
I think that's also part of why Java is never entirely
gone from LO. Cross-platform is a dream that's
never been entirely feasible.

| That's the kind of feeling I get from LibreOffice
| some times when it crashes.
|

You must use it a lot more than I do. I mostly
just do occasional things like writing up estimates
and receipts. Even those are often done with pen
and paper. I detest all office products I've tried
simply because it's so hard to make them behave.
A simple job like laying out 10 business cards for
printing becomes an all-day affair. But I haven't
found LO any worse than other programs. I've never
seen it crash, though it takes a ridiculously long
time to get to its feet in the first place.

I guess another big problem is the tendency to
overproduce. PhotoShop... MS Office... They cater
to an audience of people who actually use those
programs for a living. So extensive capability is
desirable. Couple that with the need to always be
adding features in order to sell new product and
it ends up getting carried away with complexity.
NotMe
2018-07-29 22:37:23 UTC
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Post by Mayayana
You must use it a lot more than I do. I mostly
just do occasional things like writing up estimates
and receipts. Even those are often done with pen
and paper. I detest all office products I've tried
simply because it's so hard to make them behave.
A simple job like laying out 10 business cards for
printing becomes an all-day affair. But I haven't
found LO any worse than other programs. I've never
seen it crash, though it takes a ridiculously long
time to get to its feet in the first place.
For business cards, set page size to 2"x3.5"and set appropriate margins.
Most printers will let you print eight-up or use/create a template.
Apologies if this was obvious to you.
Mayayana
2018-07-30 00:12:04 UTC
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"NotMe" <***@example.invalid> wrote

| For business cards, set page size to 2"x3.5"and set appropriate margins.
| Most printers will let you print eight-up or use/create a template.
| Apologies if this was obvious to you.

It's more in the details. I don't remember a good example now,
but it's things like laying out the logo and text, then trying to copy
and paste that to the next cell of the business card template,
and as I paste the formatting goes wacky. Or it doesn't paste.
Or suddenly the cells change size. It seems I always have to
figure out a lot of things for the simplest job. That's partly
because I'm not used to using office programs. But it also
seems that it just shouldn't be that hard.

Thanks, though, anyway. If only you were here next time
I try to redesign my business cards. :)
NotMe
2018-07-30 00:41:58 UTC
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Post by Mayayana
| For business cards, set page size to 2"x3.5"and set appropriate margins.
| Most printers will let you print eight-up or use/create a template.
| Apologies if this was obvious to you.
It's more in the details. I don't remember a good example now,
but it's things like laying out the logo and text, then trying to copy
and paste that to the next cell of the business card template,
and as I paste the formatting goes wacky. Or it doesn't paste.
Or suddenly the cells change size. It seems I always have to
figure out a lot of things for the simplest job. That's partly
because I'm not used to using office programs. But it also
seems that it just shouldn't be that hard.
Thanks, though, anyway. If only you were here next time
I try to redesign my business cards. :)
I don't know how it happened but sorry for top posting.
Big Al
2018-07-30 11:45:49 UTC
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Post by Mayayana
| For business cards, set page size to 2"x3.5"and set appropriate margins.
| Most printers will let you print eight-up or use/create a template.
| Apologies if this was obvious to you.
It's more in the details. I don't remember a good example now,
but it's things like laying out the logo and text, then trying to copy
and paste that to the next cell of the business card template,
and as I paste the formatting goes wacky. Or it doesn't paste.
Or suddenly the cells change size. It seems I always have to
figure out a lot of things for the simplest job. That's partly
because I'm not used to using office programs. But it also
seems that it just shouldn't be that hard.
Thanks, though, anyway. If only you were here next time
I try to redesign my business cards. :)
I haven't used Office for quite a while and only own 2003. I used to
write an accounting database application that could make address labels
or letters etc. It would build a pipe delimited text file and launch a
macro to merge the output names with a template. I'd have to build the
address label template once. But I remember there being a wizard or
such that would let you design one of the items and then it would
populate the multiples on the page itself.

I also remember if you're doing it yourself, every page assumes a "next
record" between pages, but does not assume 'next record' between labels
on the same page. Each label (other than the first) needs to have a
next record to advance to the next name in the text file (mail merge
source in my case). Other wise you get a page of labels for the first
record then a page of labels for the 2nd record etc. And that might be
a nice side effect but not usually what you want.

Last mail merge I did within the past year didn't seem to work that way.
That or maybe my memory really is going.
Al.
Wolf K
2018-07-30 13:23:27 UTC
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Post by Mayayana
| For business cards, set page size to 2"x3.5"and set appropriate margins.
| Most printers will let you print eight-up or use/create a template.
| Apologies if this was obvious to you.
Comment: I find Word and its work-alikes (Open/Libre Office) a PITA for
this kind of thing. In WordPerfect you use the Format/Labels submenu,
select the appropriate product, and away you go. That's one of many
reasons I use WordPerfect, even for editing MS Word documents.

I have Libre Office, but haven't used in months. Not even to read Word
documents.... :-)

[snip tale of typical Office woe]
--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
Do you know what they call alternative medicine that’s been proven to
work? Medicine. (T. Minchin)
Paul
2018-07-30 13:41:51 UTC
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Post by Wolf K
Post by Mayayana
| For business cards, set page size to 2"x3.5"and set appropriate margins.
| Most printers will let you print eight-up or use/create a template.
| Apologies if this was obvious to you.
Comment: I find Word and its work-alikes (Open/Libre Office) a PITA for
this kind of thing. In WordPerfect you use the Format/Labels submenu,
select the appropriate product, and away you go. That's one of many
reasons I use WordPerfect, even for editing MS Word documents.
I have Libre Office, but haven't used in months. Not even to read Word
documents.... :-)
[snip tale of typical Office woe]
My experience is:

1) Output to PDF.
2) Chances are the PDF prints the way it looks.

That means, select a tool, try to prepare a simple
item, output to PDF. Does the item look "proper"
in a PDF reader ? If so, it might print correctly on
the first try. Make sure the dimensions of the
document, match the paper used in the printer
on output. It's either that, or use bigger media
and snip off the excess.

But at least when going PDF to printer, there
will be fewer cases of images going off the page
and being lost in the print. If you print directly
to a printer, there are more opportunities for
"little scaling surprises".

Paul
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-07-30 00:00:17 UTC
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In message <pjkovq$3et$***@dont-email.me>, Paul <***@needed.invalid>
writes:
[]
Post by Paul
To give an example by analogy from the FOSS
world, take Firefox and the Firefox choice
of print engine. I don't know what the first print
engine was called exactly, but one day the Firefox team
decided to switch to Cairo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_3.0
"Because of Cairo's lack of support for Windows 95,
Windows 98, Windows ME, and Windows NT (versions 4.0
and below), and because Microsoft ended support for
Windows 98 and Windows ME on July 11, 2006, Firefox 3
does not run on those operating systems."
Oh, _that's_ why it stops at v2, is it - just the print engine.
Post by Paul
It was worse than that. At the time, Cairo wasn't
even finished. Some output tasks in Firefox were
[]
ALAICR, Firefox (and IIRR Netscape before it) has lagged on printing
ability: some webpages break its print engine royally - whereas they
print OK in other browsers. (I think there may be some the other way
round, but I think there are more that break Firefox.) Still no better -
there's a printing problems thread in the Firefox newsgroup now.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of
them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for
science intact. - Carl Sagan (interview w. Psychology Today published '96-1-1)
CRNG
2018-07-30 12:33:46 UTC
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Post by Ken Blake
On Sat, 28 Jul 2018 18:23:54 -0700, Fremantle
Post by Fremantle
Libre or Open Office.
And why ?
Thank you !
Try this

FreeOffice 2018
for Windows and Linux

SoftMaker FreeOffice 2018 is free to use at home and for business.
After using it, you will agree that it is the best free alternative to
Microsoft Office.

FreeOffice is a complete Office suite with a word processor, a
spreadsheet application and a presentation program Β– all compatible
with their counterparts in Microsoft Office.

What's the catch? There is none. Simply download it for free and use
it for as long as you want. Millions of people are using it every day
and enjoy this great free Office suite.

System requirements: Windows 7, 8, 10, Windows Server 2008 R2 or
newer, any PC-based Linux (32 or 64 bits)
http://www.freeoffice.com/en/


It's the free version of their commercial product.
--
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and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
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πŸ˜‰ Good Guy πŸ˜‰
2018-07-30 16:08:11 UTC
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Post by CRNG
SoftMaker FreeOffice 2018 is free to use at home and for business.
After using it, you will agree that it is the best free alternative to
Microsoft Office.
There goes another idiot spreading fake news here.

Who the fuck is interested in " best free alternative to Microsoft
Office"? Why go for second best when only the best is always needed.
Microsoft Office is the best and nobody in their right mind should waste
time using alternatives.

IOW you are a complete idiot so go and fuck yourself.
--
With over 950 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.
Shadow
2018-08-01 17:15:51 UTC
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On Mon, 30 Jul 2018 17:08:11 +0100, ? Good Guy ?
Post by Γ°ΒŸΒ˜Β‰ Good Guy Γ°ΒŸΒ˜Β‰
Post by CRNG
SoftMaker FreeOffice 2018 is free to use at home and for business.
After using it, you will agree that it is the best free alternative to
Microsoft Office.
There goes another idiot spreading fake news here.
Who the fuck is interested in " best free alternative to Microsoft
Office"?
https://www.computerworld.com/article/3293428/office-software/microsoft-boosts-office-2019-price-by-10.html

Anyone that doesn't want to:
1) Pay more
2) Have their private data online so it can be mined and
profiled, and eventually sold.

//The increase, set to take effect later this year, is likely designed
to push users to move to online Office 365....//
Post by Γ°ΒŸΒ˜Β‰ Good Guy Γ°ΒŸΒ˜Β‰
No Microsoft doesn't help idiots.
I don't think it helps anyone. Please don't feel privileged in
any way.
[]'s
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We have a new policy - Google 2012
Mayayana
2018-07-29 15:21:19 UTC
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"Fremantle" <***@Fremantle.com> wrote

| Libre or Open Office.
|
You might find this a useful read:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openoffice.org#Apache_OpenOffice

It provides a brief history of the OO/LO
political debacle over the years and may
give you some idea of the differences.
Big Al
2018-07-29 15:36:30 UTC
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Post by Fremantle
Libre or Open Office.
And why ?
Thank you !
I have a large PDF that I saved to a .DOC file so I can edit it.
The PDF contains many images and tables so I am hoping to maintain all
of that so as to minimize rewrite.
I will be changing paragraph text only.
After trying both of them, I found the Libre did a better job of
rendering most documents, pdf & doc. I was using Windows at the time
and didn't want what seemed like a bloated Word (MS Office) products. I
also tried a 3rd product, don't think it was WPS Office, but it was
horrible. Now that I'm on Linux, it's built into the system and
updates cleanly so I'm happy and working fine.

I just found out too that I could edit PDF's. My MRI/X-RAY lab allows
me to download the reports as PDF's but they usually are 1 page with a
2nd almost blank page. I like to delete that last page. And editing
printed recipes taking out the ads is a great use too.

Here is an interesting chart showing Libre and MS Office.
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Feature_Comparison:_LibreOffice_-_Microsoft_Office
Paul
2018-07-29 16:17:10 UTC
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Post by Big Al
Post by Fremantle
Libre or Open Office.
And why ?
Thank you !
I have a large PDF that I saved to a .DOC file so I can edit it.
The PDF contains many images and tables so I am hoping to maintain all
of that so as to minimize rewrite.
I will be changing paragraph text only.
After trying both of them, I found the Libre did a better job of
rendering most documents, pdf & doc. I was using Windows at the time
and didn't want what seemed like a bloated Word (MS Office) products. I
also tried a 3rd product, don't think it was WPS Office, but it was
horrible. Now that I'm on Linux, it's built into the system and
updates cleanly so I'm happy and working fine.
I just found out too that I could edit PDF's. My MRI/X-RAY lab allows
me to download the reports as PDF's but they usually are 1 page with a
2nd almost blank page. I like to delete that last page. And editing
printed recipes taking out the ads is a great use too.
Here is an interesting chart showing Libre and MS Office.
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Feature_Comparison:_LibreOffice_-_Microsoft_Office
LO is more likely to work right on the Linux side.
I think they're more comfortable making that version.

Paul
mick
2018-07-30 12:13:13 UTC
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Post by Paul
Post by Fremantle
Libre or Open Office.
And why ?
Thank you !
I have a large PDF that I saved to a .DOC file so I can edit it.
The PDF contains many images and tables so I am hoping to maintain all of
that so as to minimize rewrite.
I will be changing paragraph text only.
After trying both of them, I found the Libre did a better job of rendering
most documents, pdf & doc. I was using Windows at the time and didn't want
what seemed like a bloated Word (MS Office) products. I also tried a 3rd
product, don't think it was WPS Office, but it was horrible. Now that
I'm on Linux, it's built into the system and updates cleanly so I'm happy
and working fine.
I just found out too that I could edit PDF's. My MRI/X-RAY lab allows me
to download the reports as PDF's but they usually are 1 page with a 2nd
almost blank page. I like to delete that last page. And editing printed
recipes taking out the ads is a great use too.
Here is an interesting chart showing Libre and MS Office.
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Feature_Comparison:_LibreOffice_-_Microsoft_Office
LO is more likely to work right on the Linux side.
I think they're more comfortable making that version.
Paul
It is a good comparison though for those who are thinking of moving to
linux but are perhaps afraid to let go their MS Office suite.
--
mick
πŸ˜‰ Good Guy πŸ˜‰
2018-07-29 16:40:08 UTC
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Post by Fremantle
Libre or Open Office.
And why ?
Thank you !
I have a large PDF that I saved to a .DOC file so I can edit it.
The PDF contains many images and tables so I am hoping to maintain all
of that so as to minimize rewrite.
I will be changing paragraph text only.
Microsoft Word Online free version. Load your file in Word and start
editing it. when finished, save it on your machine OR online (this is
optional) to access it anywhere you like or to access it from any machine.

Why install a crap when you can do almost anything in Word or Excel on
ANY machine and on any platform - including "Linux-Junk" or
"Banana/Apple MAC". In any case people don't use Word these days unless
they are writing a book or writing legal documents. eMail is the main
medium of communication even for office workers.
--
With over 950 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.
Fremantle
2018-07-29 17:43:05 UTC
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FYI

Docs originally created in MS Office 2003.
Each doc has multiple columns and graphic intermingled.
Multiple .docs (chapters) make up the "book".
This was an ultimate challenge at the time and it took several calls to
MS to figure out how to do this back then since Office 2003 had a few
quirks that needed MS inspired workarounds.

A cross ref app did auto index and TOC creation.

.Doc read into Adobe Acrobat.
Is complete and looks perfect as .PDF.
Prints perfectly too.

Now I want to spell check and do minor edits without have to go through
all the multitude of steps to recreate.

Can do in Adobe Acrobat.
Convert with Adobe Acrobat OCR to editable.

or

Export from Adobe Acrobat to one .DOC.
Hopefully use Libre Office to edit.

But upon trying Open Office it garbaged up the document so Open Office
cannot handle.

Will try Libre Office next.

Then go back to Adobe edit.
Then go back to original .DOCS and edit and combine into .PDF.
Fremantle
2018-07-29 17:49:51 UTC
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Also. I do have later than Office2003 versions of MS Office but afraid
they will garbage up the .DOC files. I have experienced this.

You may not know that the last period in the document is where you can
clean up a .DOC. Go there and delete it and type a period again.

MS explained that this is where you get access to ALL the edits you have
performed (saved cuts and deletes etc) and a bunch of garbage too.
Office 2003. Not sure about later versions.
After deleting the period, the file size may shrink considerably.
Paul
2018-07-29 21:18:21 UTC
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Post by Fremantle
Also. I do have later than Office2003 versions of MS Office but afraid
they will garbage up the .DOC files. I have experienced this.
You may not know that the last period in the document is where you can
clean up a .DOC. Go there and delete it and type a period again.
MS explained that this is where you get access to ALL the edits you have
performed (saved cuts and deletes etc) and a bunch of garbage too.
Office 2003. Not sure about later versions.
After deleting the period, the file size may shrink considerably.
But the original docs have all of the intelligence in them.

Apparently PDFs open in LO Draw if you attack one directly.

LO Writer, by the usage of an extension, can import a
*Hybrid* PDF. But a Hybrid PDF is just a cheat - it's
a PDF that contains the original ODF content as well
as the PDF content. And all the extension does is suck
out the ODF from the file and give that to Writer.
In your case, if you already had the ODF on a computer,
this would be pointless. You'd just use the ODF copy
you already had. So that's not going to work.

Modern Microsoft Office can open PDF and convert to .docx.
You could go from there back to LO Writer if you want. If
the dimensions of headers are wrong, you edit the Styles
used by the Importer to correct it.

https://business.tutsplus.com/tutorials/how-to-edit-pdf-documents-in-microsoft-word--cms-20478

According to that article, some version of Acrobat does
the best job of this kind of importation.

But really, when you think about it, the same things have
to happen in each case. The PDF has to be converted back
into header styles, title bars, all the usual decorations.
It must be done that way to please power users. It wouldn't
be good enough to just randomly import text strings,
and force you to edit the header of each and every page
to fix a branding issue.

Importing the original documents keeps the original
style definitions. The bearing on the screen can still
be wrong, but the tool flow isn't creating any more
"quirks" than is absolutely necessary.

There is the free online version of Office, but some
of the more important functions (that are in the
2016 desktop version of Office), will be missing.

I can't tell you what the price of all these options is,
or whether they're still for sale or not.

*******

I've played the game of "import the .doc into the
new version of Word" over the years, and it gets
a bit boring after a while. It always causes problems.
There's hair loss. A few quarters go into the swear jar.
The above sorkflow doesn't really sound like that much
has changed, no matter how you do it.

Maybe you should be happy with doing it in LO Draw.
As long as the edits are trivial ones.

Paul
πŸ˜‰ Good Guy πŸ˜‰
2018-07-30 16:03:05 UTC
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Also. I do have later than Office2003 versions of MS Office
Then use it and stop asking stupid questions here.
but afraid they will garbage up the .DOC files.
Have you heard of something called "back-up the document first before
opening it in Word" ? If not go and ask your mummy about it. Has your
mummy stopped taking drugs?
I have experienced this.
Then you must be the most stupid person here not to learn from your
experience.
You may not know that the last period in the document is where you can
clean up a .DOC. Go there and delete it and type a period again.
You are talking complete and utter rubbish.
MS explained that this is where you get access to ALL the edits you
have performed (saved cuts and deletes etc) and a bunch of garbage
too. Office 2003.
No Microsoft doesn't help idiots like you. Don't spread fake news here.
Not sure about later versions.
You said you have the latest version so why not open it. It is not
meant to lie idle on your machine. You need to use it. Are you so stupid?
After deleting the period, the file size may shrink considerably.
Then do it and stop talking rubbish.
--
With over 950 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.
Shadow
2018-07-30 17:49:35 UTC
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On Mon, 30 Jul 2018 17:03:05 +0100, ? Good Guy ?
Post by Γ°ΒŸΒ˜Β‰ Good Guy Γ°ΒŸΒ˜Β‰
Also. I do have later than Office2003 versions of MS Office
Then use it and stop asking stupid questions here.
but afraid they will garbage up the .DOC files.
Have you heard of something called "back-up the document first before
opening it in Word" ?
What "good guy" is trying to say is "backup the documents,
then open a copy in LibreOffice. If they render OK never waste another
cent on M$ trash. If they don't, well you have two options. Either
adapt them to LibreOffice or expect to pay though your nose for
decades for a simple text editor"

+1 on that sound advice.
[]'s
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We have a new policy - Google 2012
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