Discussion:
Win 7 Startup Problems
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D***@MadCow.net
2018-03-17 20:33:20 UTC
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On 03/14/18 I posted about restoring a Macrium Reflect Image to solve
a sudden startup problem I was encountering. I was pleased with the
result at the time, but the symptoms returned .

Sometimes the startup will work ok, as it has for years. But now
there's about a 50/50 chance that it won't.

Symptoms:

Everything appears normal up to the Login screen. I enter my password
and "Welcome" appears as usual.

One - When the startup is successful, the "Welcome" disappears in 1 or
2 seconds and the Desktop appears and everything seems to work ok.

Two - Some times after a few clicks on the desktop icons or Start
button the system hangs and requires a power down.

Three - Sometimes The "Welcome" stays on and eventually leads to a
blank black screen, requiring a power down.

No error messages appear except on a restart after a lockup, the
basic Windows startup menu appears because of a failed proper
shutdown.

I've tried to disable Bitdefender (AV) with msconfig.exe, but on
restart, Bitdefender starts anyway.

Also disabled the Classic Shell service but the symptoms can appear
with that disabled.

That's about the extent of my debugging knowledge.

Suggestions very welcome, but keep them fairly simple, please.

Thanks,

DC
pjp
2018-03-17 21:39:01 UTC
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Post by D***@MadCow.net
On 03/14/18 I posted about restoring a Macrium Reflect Image to solve
a sudden startup problem I was encountering. I was pleased with the
result at the time, but the symptoms returned .
Sometimes the startup will work ok, as it has for years. But now
there's about a 50/50 chance that it won't.
Everything appears normal up to the Login screen. I enter my password
and "Welcome" appears as usual.
One - When the startup is successful, the "Welcome" disappears in 1 or
2 seconds and the Desktop appears and everything seems to work ok.
Two - Some times after a few clicks on the desktop icons or Start
button the system hangs and requires a power down.
Three - Sometimes The "Welcome" stays on and eventually leads to a
blank black screen, requiring a power down.
No error messages appear except on a restart after a lockup, the
basic Windows startup menu appears because of a failed proper
shutdown.
I've tried to disable Bitdefender (AV) with msconfig.exe, but on
restart, Bitdefender starts anyway.
Also disabled the Classic Shell service but the symptoms can appear
with that disabled.
That's about the extent of my debugging knowledge.
Suggestions very welcome, but keep them fairly simple, please.
Thanks,
DC
Sounds to me like it maybe a hardware problem. Hard disk going bad and
sometimes a specific sector (which means some specific file) can't be
read or is incorrectly led. First case system probably stalls second
case system probably crashes.

I'd be checking disk is ok, e.g. try and schedule a startup chkdsk by
trying to run chkdsk next time you get system started. It won't allow
system disk to be checked when being used hence why it uses the startup
option.

If possible you can also look at the SMART info disk likely provides. I
use DiskInfo for that but there's planty of choices for software
displays SMART status of drives. I might give another clue disk is
having problems.

If it's not the disk then have fun doing further detetctive work :)
Paul in Houston TX
2018-03-17 22:11:22 UTC
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Post by D***@MadCow.net
On 03/14/18 I posted about restoring a Macrium Reflect Image to solve
a sudden startup problem I was encountering. I was pleased with the
result at the time, but the symptoms returned .
Sometimes the startup will work ok, as it has for years. But now
there's about a 50/50 chance that it won't.
Everything appears normal up to the Login screen. I enter my password
and "Welcome" appears as usual.
One - When the startup is successful, the "Welcome" disappears in 1 or
2 seconds and the Desktop appears and everything seems to work ok.
Two - Some times after a few clicks on the desktop icons or Start
button the system hangs and requires a power down.
Three - Sometimes The "Welcome" stays on and eventually leads to a
blank black screen, requiring a power down.
No error messages appear except on a restart after a lockup, the
basic Windows startup menu appears because of a failed proper
shutdown.
I've tried to disable Bitdefender (AV) with msconfig.exe, but on
restart, Bitdefender starts anyway.
Also disabled the Classic Shell service but the symptoms can appear
with that disabled.
That's about the extent of my debugging knowledge.
Suggestions very welcome, but keep them fairly simple, please.
Thanks,
DC
Desktop or laptop?
I 2nd pjp's post: hardware.
When was the last time you took the machine apart and thoroughly
cleaned out all the dust and grime?
Reseat the ram, reseat all the cables at both ends, etc.
Check the fans for wobble.
D***@MadCow.net
2018-03-17 23:49:37 UTC
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On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 17:11:22 -0500, Paul in Houston TX
Post by Paul in Houston TX
Post by D***@MadCow.net
On 03/14/18 I posted about restoring a Macrium Reflect Image to solve
a sudden startup problem I was encountering. I was pleased with the
result at the time, but the symptoms returned .
Sometimes the startup will work ok, as it has for years. But now
there's about a 50/50 chance that it won't.
Everything appears normal up to the Login screen. I enter my password
and "Welcome" appears as usual.
One - When the startup is successful, the "Welcome" disappears in 1 or
2 seconds and the Desktop appears and everything seems to work ok.
Two - Some times after a few clicks on the desktop icons or Start
button the system hangs and requires a power down.
Three - Sometimes The "Welcome" stays on and eventually leads to a
blank black screen, requiring a power down.
No error messages appear except on a restart after a lockup, the
basic Windows startup menu appears because of a failed proper
shutdown.
I've tried to disable Bitdefender (AV) with msconfig.exe, but on
restart, Bitdefender starts anyway.
Also disabled the Classic Shell service but the symptoms can appear
with that disabled.
That's about the extent of my debugging knowledge.
Suggestions very welcome, but keep them fairly simple, please.
Thanks,
DC
Desktop or laptop?
I 2nd pjp's post: hardware.
When was the last time you took the machine apart and thoroughly
cleaned out all the dust and grime?
Reseat the ram, reseat all the cables at both ends, etc.
Check the fans for wobble.
I did not see pjp's post.

I'll look for it tomorrow and also try your suggestions.

Thanks,

DC
D***@MadCow.net
2018-03-18 15:05:24 UTC
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On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 17:11:22 -0500, Paul in Houston TX
Post by Paul in Houston TX
Post by D***@MadCow.net
On 03/14/18 I posted about restoring a Macrium Reflect Image to solve
a sudden startup problem I was encountering. I was pleased with the
result at the time, but the symptoms returned .
Sometimes the startup will work ok, as it has for years. But now
there's about a 50/50 chance that it won't.
Everything appears normal up to the Login screen. I enter my password
and "Welcome" appears as usual.
One - When the startup is successful, the "Welcome" disappears in 1 or
2 seconds and the Desktop appears and everything seems to work ok.
Two - Some times after a few clicks on the desktop icons or Start
button the system hangs and requires a power down.
Three - Sometimes The "Welcome" stays on and eventually leads to a
blank black screen, requiring a power down.
No error messages appear except on a restart after a lockup, the
basic Windows startup menu appears because of a failed proper
shutdown.
I've tried to disable Bitdefender (AV) with msconfig.exe, but on
restart, Bitdefender starts anyway.
Also disabled the Classic Shell service but the symptoms can appear
with that disabled.
That's about the extent of my debugging knowledge.
Suggestions very welcome, but keep them fairly simple, please.
Thanks,
DC
Desktop or laptop?
I 2nd pjp's post: hardware.
When was the last time you took the machine apart and thoroughly
cleaned out all the dust and grime?
Reseat the ram, reseat all the cables at both ends, etc.
Check the fans for wobble.
Sorry I didn't see your question before. It's a desktop. Intel
motherboard DZ77GA-70K.

Just re-retrieved messages from before my start of this thread, but
don't see a msg from the "pjp" you mentioned. If his details are
worth my knowing would you please copy them and paste them into a
reply to me?

I will shut down now to check the items you offered.

Thanks,

DC
Paul in Houston TX
2018-03-18 17:06:46 UTC
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Post by D***@MadCow.net
On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 17:11:22 -0500, Paul in Houston TX
Sorry I didn't see your question before. It's a desktop. Intel
motherboard DZ77GA-70K.
Just re-retrieved messages from before my start of this thread, but
don't see a msg from the "pjp" you mentioned. If his details are
worth my knowing would you please copy them and paste them into a
reply to me?
I will shut down now to check the items you offered.
PJP wrote on 3/17/2018 4:39 PM:
"Sounds to me like it maybe a hardware problem. Hard disk going bad and
sometimes a specific sector (which means some specific file) can't be
read or is incorrectly led. First case system probably stalls second
case system probably crashes."
D***@MadCow.net
2018-03-18 17:18:14 UTC
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On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 12:06:46 -0500, Paul in Houston TX
Post by Paul in Houston TX
Post by D***@MadCow.net
On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 17:11:22 -0500, Paul in Houston TX
Sorry I didn't see your question before. It's a desktop. Intel
motherboard DZ77GA-70K.
Just re-retrieved messages from before my start of this thread, but
don't see a msg from the "pjp" you mentioned. If his details are
worth my knowing would you please copy them and paste them into a
reply to me?
I will shut down now to check the items you offered.
"Sounds to me like it maybe a hardware problem. Hard disk going bad and
sometimes a specific sector (which means some specific file) can't be
read or is incorrectly led. First case system probably stalls second
case system probably crashes."
Chkdsk doesn't report any bad sectors.

What's next? A new hard disk?

DC
D***@MadCow.net
2018-03-20 20:53:57 UTC
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On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 12:06:46 -0500, Paul in Houston TX
Post by Paul in Houston TX
Post by D***@MadCow.net
On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 17:11:22 -0500, Paul in Houston TX
Sorry I didn't see your question before. It's a desktop. Intel
motherboard DZ77GA-70K.
Just re-retrieved messages from before my start of this thread, but
don't see a msg from the "pjp" you mentioned. If his details are
worth my knowing would you please copy them and paste them into a
reply to me?
I will shut down now to check the items you offered.
"Sounds to me like it maybe a hardware problem. Hard disk going bad and
sometimes a specific sector (which means some specific file) can't be
read or is incorrectly led. First case system probably stalls second
case system probably crashes."
All is well. See my reply to Paul for the details.

Thanks for your help.

DC
D***@MadCow.net
2018-03-18 17:09:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by D***@MadCow.net
On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 17:11:22 -0500, Paul in Houston TX
Post by Paul in Houston TX
Post by D***@MadCow.net
On 03/14/18 I posted about restoring a Macrium Reflect Image to solve
a sudden startup problem I was encountering. I was pleased with the
result at the time, but the symptoms returned .
Sometimes the startup will work ok, as it has for years. But now
there's about a 50/50 chance that it won't.
Everything appears normal up to the Login screen. I enter my password
and "Welcome" appears as usual.
One - When the startup is successful, the "Welcome" disappears in 1 or
2 seconds and the Desktop appears and everything seems to work ok.
Two - Some times after a few clicks on the desktop icons or Start
button the system hangs and requires a power down.
Three - Sometimes The "Welcome" stays on and eventually leads to a
blank black screen, requiring a power down.
No error messages appear except on a restart after a lockup, the
basic Windows startup menu appears because of a failed proper
shutdown.
I've tried to disable Bitdefender (AV) with msconfig.exe, but on
restart, Bitdefender starts anyway.
Also disabled the Classic Shell service but the symptoms can appear
with that disabled.
That's about the extent of my debugging knowledge.
Suggestions very welcome, but keep them fairly simple, please.
Thanks,
DC
Desktop or laptop?
I 2nd pjp's post: hardware.
When was the last time you took the machine apart and thoroughly
cleaned out all the dust and grime?
Reseat the ram, reseat all the cables at both ends, etc.
Check the fans for wobble.
Sorry I didn't see your question before. It's a desktop. Intel
motherboard DZ77GA-70K.
Just re-retrieved messages from before my start of this thread, but
don't see a msg from the "pjp" you mentioned. If his details are
worth my knowing would you please copy them and paste them into a
reply to me?
I will shut down now to check the items you offered.
Thanks,
DC
Wasn't very dirty but cleaned filters & fans. Reseated SATA data
cables on both ends, video card and it's connector and some of the
other connectors on the motherboard.

Opened latches on memory cards, wiggled them and reseated & locked
them.

Problem still exists. Cold started once then used restart which
failed on the 4th time.

Now I think the restart time (from entering password to the desktop)
displaying is longer.

Have 16GB RAM, in 4 - 4GB sticks. Is there a reason to swap their
position to see if the first one is flaky?

DC
Paul
2018-03-18 17:48:19 UTC
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Post by D***@MadCow.net
Wasn't very dirty but cleaned filters & fans. Reseated SATA data
cables on both ends, video card and it's connector and some of the
other connectors on the motherboard.
Opened latches on memory cards, wiggled them and reseated & locked
them.
Problem still exists. Cold started once then used restart which
failed on the 4th time.
Now I think the restart time (from entering password to the desktop)
displaying is longer.
Have 16GB RAM, in 4 - 4GB sticks. Is there a reason to swap their
position to see if the first one is flaky?
DC
You don't use Windows as a paper towel for a "memory spill".

Bad memory damages Windows. It can corrupt the contents of Registry files.
(And in my case, it ruined two backups I'd made of the C: drive. They
both had verify errors and I couldn't restore from them.)

Testing and testing and testing, when you known bad RAM is present,
is not wise. If you're worried about OS contents (your data files
and so on), pull the drive from the desktop, take it to a second desktop
with *good functional RAM*, make your backup, then bring the drive
back. You'll be a lot happier than I was, if you do. If symptoms
go South on you, you'll have that one good backup waiting for
you on the other equipment.

*******

This is the Windows 7 memory diagnostic. I was surprised, that a Windows
memory diagnostic I tested one day, actually worked. I wasn't expecting
it to be as capable as third-party versions.

https://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/715-memory-diagnostics-tool.html

*******

However, memtest.org also has standalone media which I like
for a test. Takes about two hours or so to run a "complete pass".
Pressing the <esc> key causes the computer to reboot, when
you're satisfied with whatever answer the program gives.

Windows is not booted, while you're using this. In fact,
you could even have the C: drive completely unplugged
while this runs. I use this on new systems, before a hard
drive is connected.

If you scroll half way down the memtest.org page, there
are downloads that can make a bootable CD, a download
that will load the test tool onto a bootable USB stick,
as well as the traditional floppy image. (You can do the
media preparation on a known working computer.) I keep a floppy
next to my desk for the machines here. The machine I'm
typing on has a floppy drive. The newer computer, I use
a USB floppy drive, as the motherboard no longer
supports a floppy interface. The floppy version of memtest
still boots from the USB floppy drive.

In the case of my last memory failure, the results were
non-committal. Testing 4x2GB, I would get a couple errors,
proving I had [some] problem. Testing any combination of 2x2GB
or testing the 2GB sticks one at a time gave no errors!
Very annoying. I replaced all four sticks. The sticks (Kingston)
had been suspicious from day one, as with no memory Vdimm boost,
the chips ran warmer than I'm used to for memory. From
installation day onwards, I'd been running a fan over
top of those. And they still took a crap on me.

Paul
D***@MadCow.net
2018-03-18 20:04:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul
Post by D***@MadCow.net
Wasn't very dirty but cleaned filters & fans. Reseated SATA data
cables on both ends, video card and it's connector and some of the
other connectors on the motherboard.
Opened latches on memory cards, wiggled them and reseated & locked
them.
Problem still exists. Cold started once then used restart which
failed on the 4th time.
Now I think the restart time (from entering password to the desktop)
displaying is longer.
Have 16GB RAM, in 4 - 4GB sticks. Is there a reason to swap their
position to see if the first one is flaky?
DC
You don't use Windows as a paper towel for a "memory spill".
Bad memory damages Windows. It can corrupt the contents of Registry files.
(And in my case, it ruined two backups I'd made of the C: drive. They
both had verify errors and I couldn't restore from them.)
Testing and testing and testing, when you known bad RAM is present,
is not wise. If you're worried about OS contents (your data files
and so on), pull the drive from the desktop, take it to a second desktop
with *good functional RAM*, make your backup, then bring the drive
back. You'll be a lot happier than I was, if you do. If symptoms
go South on you, you'll have that one good backup waiting for
you on the other equipment.
*******
This is the Windows 7 memory diagnostic. I was surprised, that a Windows
memory diagnostic I tested one day, actually worked. I wasn't expecting
it to be as capable as third-party versions.
https://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/715-memory-diagnostics-tool.html
*******
However, memtest.org also has standalone media which I like
for a test. Takes about two hours or so to run a "complete pass".
Pressing the <esc> key causes the computer to reboot, when
you're satisfied with whatever answer the program gives.
Windows is not booted, while you're using this. In fact,
you could even have the C: drive completely unplugged
while this runs. I use this on new systems, before a hard
drive is connected.
If you scroll half way down the memtest.org page, there
are downloads that can make a bootable CD, a download
that will load the test tool onto a bootable USB stick,
as well as the traditional floppy image. (You can do the
media preparation on a known working computer.) I keep a floppy
next to my desk for the machines here. The machine I'm
typing on has a floppy drive. The newer computer, I use
a USB floppy drive, as the motherboard no longer
supports a floppy interface. The floppy version of memtest
still boots from the USB floppy drive.
In the case of my last memory failure, the results were
non-committal. Testing 4x2GB, I would get a couple errors,
proving I had [some] problem. Testing any combination of 2x2GB
or testing the 2GB sticks one at a time gave no errors!
Very annoying. I replaced all four sticks. The sticks (Kingston)
had been suspicious from day one, as with no memory Vdimm boost,
the chips ran warmer than I'm used to for memory. From
installation day onwards, I'd been running a fan over
top of those. And they still took a crap on me.
Paul
I'm confused now. I was thinking a new HD which I have, was what I
needed. I have a MR Image 02/25/18 that I think was good. The recent
symptoms did not start until 03/13/18. After I restored that 02/25/18
image it seemed ok for a few days (?), then the symptoms started
again.

All my MR images are verified, so I'm trusting they are good. I
figure if I restore from a verified image that was made a few weeks
before the symptoms appeared, that image should work good. Yes/No?

Today, again, Chkdsk did not report any bad sectors. Now I'm not sure
if that is believable.

Your are raising the possibility of bad memory. Is that where you
think I should be looking?

The memory I've been using here for almost 6 years is
Corsair, 16GB (4 x4GB) Vengeance PC3-12800DDR3 1600MHz, CL9
(9-9-9-24), 1.5v SDRAM DIMM, non-ECC. I don't know where to get
replacements for that. Could I just try moving the first 2 to the end
and move the last 2 to the front where they'd be used for booting
Window? And if that works, remove the last 2 and see how it works
with only 8GB? Or is that too simple.

All this work takes a lot of time that is difficult for me so I'd like
to be going down the right road. I value your judgment, so what do
you think?

Thanks,

DC
Paul
2018-03-18 20:44:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by D***@MadCow.net
Post by Paul
Post by D***@MadCow.net
Wasn't very dirty but cleaned filters & fans. Reseated SATA data
cables on both ends, video card and it's connector and some of the
other connectors on the motherboard.
Opened latches on memory cards, wiggled them and reseated & locked
them.
Problem still exists. Cold started once then used restart which
failed on the 4th time.
Now I think the restart time (from entering password to the desktop)
displaying is longer.
Have 16GB RAM, in 4 - 4GB sticks. Is there a reason to swap their
position to see if the first one is flaky?
DC
You don't use Windows as a paper towel for a "memory spill".
Bad memory damages Windows. It can corrupt the contents of Registry files.
(And in my case, it ruined two backups I'd made of the C: drive. They
both had verify errors and I couldn't restore from them.)
Testing and testing and testing, when you known bad RAM is present,
is not wise. If you're worried about OS contents (your data files
and so on), pull the drive from the desktop, take it to a second desktop
with *good functional RAM*, make your backup, then bring the drive
back. You'll be a lot happier than I was, if you do. If symptoms
go South on you, you'll have that one good backup waiting for
you on the other equipment.
*******
This is the Windows 7 memory diagnostic. I was surprised, that a Windows
memory diagnostic I tested one day, actually worked. I wasn't expecting
it to be as capable as third-party versions.
https://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/715-memory-diagnostics-tool.html
*******
However, memtest.org also has standalone media which I like
for a test. Takes about two hours or so to run a "complete pass".
Pressing the <esc> key causes the computer to reboot, when
you're satisfied with whatever answer the program gives.
Windows is not booted, while you're using this. In fact,
you could even have the C: drive completely unplugged
while this runs. I use this on new systems, before a hard
drive is connected.
If you scroll half way down the memtest.org page, there
are downloads that can make a bootable CD, a download
that will load the test tool onto a bootable USB stick,
as well as the traditional floppy image. (You can do the
media preparation on a known working computer.) I keep a floppy
next to my desk for the machines here. The machine I'm
typing on has a floppy drive. The newer computer, I use
a USB floppy drive, as the motherboard no longer
supports a floppy interface. The floppy version of memtest
still boots from the USB floppy drive.
In the case of my last memory failure, the results were
non-committal. Testing 4x2GB, I would get a couple errors,
proving I had [some] problem. Testing any combination of 2x2GB
or testing the 2GB sticks one at a time gave no errors!
Very annoying. I replaced all four sticks. The sticks (Kingston)
had been suspicious from day one, as with no memory Vdimm boost,
the chips ran warmer than I'm used to for memory. From
installation day onwards, I'd been running a fan over
top of those. And they still took a crap on me.
Paul
I'm confused now. I was thinking a new HD which I have, was what I
needed. I have a MR Image 02/25/18 that I think was good. The recent
symptoms did not start until 03/13/18. After I restored that 02/25/18
image it seemed ok for a few days (?), then the symptoms started
again.
All my MR images are verified, so I'm trusting they are good. I
figure if I restore from a verified image that was made a few weeks
before the symptoms appeared, that image should work good. Yes/No?
Today, again, Chkdsk did not report any bad sectors. Now I'm not sure
if that is believable.
Your are raising the possibility of bad memory. Is that where you
think I should be looking?
The memory I've been using here for almost 6 years is
Corsair, 16GB (4 x4GB) Vengeance PC3-12800DDR3 1600MHz, CL9
(9-9-9-24), 1.5v SDRAM DIMM, non-ECC. I don't know where to get
replacements for that. Could I just try moving the first 2 to the end
and move the last 2 to the front where they'd be used for booting
Window? And if that works, remove the last 2 and see how it works
with only 8GB? Or is that too simple.
All this work takes a lot of time that is difficult for me so I'd like
to be going down the right road. I value your judgment, so what do
you think?
Thanks,
DC
You should test memory, in any case, around once a year.

This is part of preventative maintenance.

Someone suggested memory, so I threw in a couple
of suggestions.

I didn't think I had a memory error... until I did.

When memory goes bad here, the mean time to failure
is around two years or so. You can pick your own time
constant, for when a speculative test should be done.
I picked once a year, as a compromise between becoming
obsessive about this, versus being curious (about once
a year).

You can continue to work on your disk error/CHKDSK theory.
Since you've verified backups and got good ones, maybe
you don't have a problem. But part of keeping the computer
in reasonable shape, is verifying the memory isn't an issue.

In school, we had this crazy idea that memory never went
bad. Then, there was an Arrhenius model for it, which
I never quite believed. Most of my failures here, were
with cheap ("unbranded") memory, but the Kingston was
an example of even branded stuff going bad.

Paul
D***@MadCow.net
2018-03-19 13:57:30 UTC
Permalink
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Post by Paul
Post by D***@MadCow.net
Post by Paul
Post by D***@MadCow.net
Wasn't very dirty but cleaned filters & fans. Reseated SATA data
cables on both ends, video card and it's connector and some of the
other connectors on the motherboard.
Opened latches on memory cards, wiggled them and reseated & locked
them.
Problem still exists. Cold started once then used restart which
failed on the 4th time.
Now I think the restart time (from entering password to the desktop)
displaying is longer.
Have 16GB RAM, in 4 - 4GB sticks. Is there a reason to swap their
position to see if the first one is flaky?
DC
You don't use Windows as a paper towel for a "memory spill".
Bad memory damages Windows. It can corrupt the contents of Registry files.
(And in my case, it ruined two backups I'd made of the C: drive. They
both had verify errors and I couldn't restore from them.)
Testing and testing and testing, when you known bad RAM is present,
is not wise. If you're worried about OS contents (your data files
and so on), pull the drive from the desktop, take it to a second desktop
with *good functional RAM*, make your backup, then bring the drive
back. You'll be a lot happier than I was, if you do. If symptoms
go South on you, you'll have that one good backup waiting for
you on the other equipment.
*******
This is the Windows 7 memory diagnostic. I was surprised, that a Windows
memory diagnostic I tested one day, actually worked. I wasn't expecting
it to be as capable as third-party versions.
https://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/715-memory-diagnostics-tool.html
*******
However, memtest.org also has standalone media which I like
for a test. Takes about two hours or so to run a "complete pass".
Pressing the <esc> key causes the computer to reboot, when
you're satisfied with whatever answer the program gives.
Windows is not booted, while you're using this. In fact,
you could even have the C: drive completely unplugged
while this runs. I use this on new systems, before a hard
drive is connected.
If you scroll half way down the memtest.org page, there
are downloads that can make a bootable CD, a download
that will load the test tool onto a bootable USB stick,
as well as the traditional floppy image. (You can do the
media preparation on a known working computer.) I keep a floppy
next to my desk for the machines here. The machine I'm
typing on has a floppy drive. The newer computer, I use
a USB floppy drive, as the motherboard no longer
supports a floppy interface. The floppy version of memtest
still boots from the USB floppy drive.
In the case of my last memory failure, the results were
non-committal. Testing 4x2GB, I would get a couple errors,
proving I had [some] problem. Testing any combination of 2x2GB
or testing the 2GB sticks one at a time gave no errors!
Very annoying. I replaced all four sticks. The sticks (Kingston)
had been suspicious from day one, as with no memory Vdimm boost,
the chips ran warmer than I'm used to for memory. From
installation day onwards, I'd been running a fan over
top of those. And they still took a crap on me.
Paul
I'm confused now. I was thinking a new HD which I have, was what I
needed. I have a MR Image 02/25/18 that I think was good. The recent
symptoms did not start until 03/13/18. After I restored that 02/25/18
image it seemed ok for a few days (?), then the symptoms started
again.
All my MR images are verified, so I'm trusting they are good. I
figure if I restore from a verified image that was made a few weeks
before the symptoms appeared, that image should work good. Yes/No?
Today, again, Chkdsk did not report any bad sectors. Now I'm not sure
if that is believable.
Your are raising the possibility of bad memory. Is that where you
think I should be looking?
The memory I've been using here for almost 6 years is
Corsair, 16GB (4 x4GB) Vengeance PC3-12800DDR3 1600MHz, CL9
(9-9-9-24), 1.5v SDRAM DIMM, non-ECC. I don't know where to get
replacements for that. Could I just try moving the first 2 to the end
and move the last 2 to the front where they'd be used for booting
Window? And if that works, remove the last 2 and see how it works
with only 8GB? Or is that too simple.
All this work takes a lot of time that is difficult for me so I'd like
to be going down the right road. I value your judgment, so what do
you think?
Thanks,
DC
You should test memory, in any case, around once a year.
This is part of preventative maintenance.
Someone suggested memory, so I threw in a couple
of suggestions.
I didn't think I had a memory error... until I did.
When memory goes bad here, the mean time to failure
is around two years or so. You can pick your own time
constant, for when a speculative test should be done.
I picked once a year, as a compromise between becoming
obsessive about this, versus being curious (about once
a year).
You can continue to work on your disk error/CHKDSK theory.
Since you've verified backups and got good ones, maybe
you don't have a problem. But part of keeping the computer
in reasonable shape, is verifying the memory isn't an issue.
In school, we had this crazy idea that memory never went
bad. Then, there was an Arrhenius model for it, which
I never quite believed. Most of my failures here, were
with cheap ("unbranded") memory, but the Kingston was
an example of even branded stuff going bad.
Paul
I took your advice and tested the memory.

The Windows Memory Diagnostics ran for 20 passes and reported no
errors.

I got the latest Memtest86 on a CD and ran it for 3 hours. It made
2.6 passes and no errors.

So I think the next thing is to replace the hard disk. I'd like your
opinion on which way would insure the best result.

The hard disk is 1TB with the System Reserved partitions plus Drives
C:, D:, and E:.

I have an identical new unused 1TB hard disk to replace the old one.

My first thought, due to past experience, was to use the Windows 7 DVD
to format and install Win 7 and to use it to create the other 2
partitions. Then I'd Restore the MR Image I made more than 2 weeks
before the symptoms appeared. (I have older ones too, if necessary.)
Then I'd take previously made images of D: and E: and restore them to
the new hard disk. I feel pretty confident about this method.

I've never used MR Cloning, but after looking at the manual that might
be ok but I have a concern about the possibility of bringing something
unwanted from the old (bad?) hard disk over to the new one.

Wondering what you think, or have experienced.

Thanks,

DC
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-03-19 14:31:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message <***@4ax.com>,
***@MadCow.net writes:
[]
Post by D***@MadCow.net
I took your advice and tested the memory.
[and it's OK.]
Post by D***@MadCow.net
So I think the next thing is to replace the hard disk. I'd like your
opinion on which way would insure the best result.
The hard disk is 1TB with the System Reserved partitions plus Drives
C:, D:, and E:.
I have an identical new unused 1TB hard disk to replace the old one.
My first thought, due to past experience, was to use the Windows 7 DVD
to format and install Win 7 and to use it to create the other 2
partitions. Then I'd Restore the MR Image I made more than 2 weeks
before the symptoms appeared. (I have older ones too, if necessary.)
Which partitions did you image to make that image? If it was at least
the hidden and C: partitions, then I don't think there's any need to
format: restoring from the image is likely to create them anyway. And,
if you're sure that image is free of the problem, restoring from it is
going to be _much_ quicker than installing 7, doing all the updates,
installing other software you had installed, and tweaking both the OS
and the other software to how you like it.

(I'm assuming you have the Macrium CD to boot from, and the image on a
drive which the PC when booted from the CD can see.)

You have nothing to lose by trying it, anyway, other than time! That is
to say, put in your new unused drive, connect the drive [presumably an
external drive accessed via USB?] with the image on, put in the Macrium
boot CD, and boot; then, when it has booted, select the image to restore
from, and the (new) drive to restore to, then do it, then shut down,
remove the CD and image drive, and boot to see what happens. I suspect
you'll find you have the partitions you included when you made that
image. If that didn't include D: and E:, then their space will probably
be unallocated on the drive. If that's so, I'd use the W7 utility at
that stage to allocate them, then restore from them ...
Post by D***@MadCow.net
Then I'd take previously made images of D: and E: and restore them to
the new hard disk. I feel pretty confident about this method.
... like that. (I'm not even sure you have to allocate them beforehand,
or whether just restoring the D: and E: images would create them anyway.
I just didn't want them to restore over the C: you'd just restored.)
Post by D***@MadCow.net
I've never used MR Cloning, but after looking at the manual that might
be ok but I have a concern about the possibility of bringing something
unwanted from the old (bad?) hard disk over to the new one.
Wondering what you think, or have experienced.
I've only used MR cloning once, and it went without a hitch; however,
that was just to go from a drive I had no concerns about to a larger
one. (After the cloning, I had the partitions - at the sizes - I had on
the smaller one, with the rest unallocated; I just did some moving
about, resizing, etc., using the normal W7 utility, to use all of the
new disc.) However, I'm with you - if there's a chance there might be
something rotten in the state of Denmark on your existing disc, I'd say
"restore" from known good images to your new disc. Nothing to lose
(except time) by trying, anyway!
Post by D***@MadCow.net
Thanks,
DC
YW
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Usenet is a way of being annoyed by people you otherwise never would have met."
- John J. Kinyon
Paul
2018-03-19 16:45:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by D***@MadCow.net
I took your advice and tested the memory.
[and it's OK.]
Post by D***@MadCow.net
So I think the next thing is to replace the hard disk. I'd like your
opinion on which way would insure the best result.
The hard disk is 1TB with the System Reserved partitions plus Drives
C:, D:, and E:.
I have an identical new unused 1TB hard disk to replace the old one.
My first thought, due to past experience, was to use the Windows 7 DVD
to format and install Win 7 and to use it to create the other 2
partitions. Then I'd Restore the MR Image I made more than 2 weeks
before the symptoms appeared. (I have older ones too, if necessary.)
Which partitions did you image to make that image? If it was at least
the hidden and C: partitions, then I don't think there's any need to
format: restoring from the image is likely to create them anyway. And,
if you're sure that image is free of the problem, restoring from it is
going to be _much_ quicker than installing 7, doing all the updates,
installing other software you had installed, and tweaking both the OS
and the other software to how you like it.
(I'm assuming you have the Macrium CD to boot from, and the image on a
drive which the PC when booted from the CD can see.)
You have nothing to lose by trying it, anyway, other than time! That is
to say, put in your new unused drive, connect the drive [presumably an
external drive accessed via USB?] with the image on, put in the Macrium
boot CD, and boot; then, when it has booted, select the image to restore
from, and the (new) drive to restore to, then do it, then shut down,
remove the CD and image drive, and boot to see what happens. I suspect
you'll find you have the partitions you included when you made that
image. If that didn't include D: and E:, then their space will probably
be unallocated on the drive. If that's so, I'd use the W7 utility at
that stage to allocate them, then restore from them ...
Post by D***@MadCow.net
Then I'd take previously made images of D: and E: and restore them to
the new hard disk. I feel pretty confident about this method.
... like that. (I'm not even sure you have to allocate them beforehand,
or whether just restoring the D: and E: images would create them anyway.
I just didn't want them to restore over the C: you'd just restored.)
Post by D***@MadCow.net
I've never used MR Cloning, but after looking at the manual that might
be ok but I have a concern about the possibility of bringing something
unwanted from the old (bad?) hard disk over to the new one.
Wondering what you think, or have experienced.
I've only used MR cloning once, and it went without a hitch; however,
that was just to go from a drive I had no concerns about to a larger
one. (After the cloning, I had the partitions - at the sizes - I had on
the smaller one, with the rest unallocated; I just did some moving
about, resizing, etc., using the normal W7 utility, to use all of the
new disc.) However, I'm with you - if there's a chance there might be
something rotten in the state of Denmark on your existing disc, I'd say
"restore" from known good images to your new disc. Nothing to lose
(except time) by trying, anyway!
I would first examine the MRIMG file, to see what's been captured
in it. If it only held a DATA partition for example, then we'd
need to install Windows 7 on the disk too perhaps. Knowing what
is inside the backup, is critical.

If it includes System Reserved and C: , then chances are a simple
"restore to new hard drive" from the MRIMG, is sufficient.

Macrium has options to let you "look inside" an MRIMG. From
the Restore menu, you should be able to Browse for MRIMG files.

And the nice thing is, you can unplug the old drive (with the power off),
plug in the new restored drive, and it should boot off the two-week-old
image.

And you have your choice of places to work. The new hard drive
could be connected to a fully working machine, and restored
in there. As long as you're careful not to overwrite the
wrong disk drive. If you have a Macrium Rescue CD, then you
don't actually need a Windows OS drive plugged into the machine
where the restore is being done.

New_Drive
Backup_holding_Drive
Optical drive (boots Macrium CD)

That's enough to kick off the preparation of the New_Drive.

Do not boot from the New_Drive, until it's reinstalled in the
suspect machine, and it is by itself. Then, give it a shot
and see what happens. You can bring over any left-over data
files from the old disk later, as the need (or capability) arises.

Paul
D***@MadCow.net
2018-03-19 19:00:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by D***@MadCow.net
I took your advice and tested the memory.
[and it's OK.]
Post by D***@MadCow.net
So I think the next thing is to replace the hard disk. I'd like your
opinion on which way would insure the best result.
The hard disk is 1TB with the System Reserved partitions plus Drives
C:, D:, and E:.
I have an identical new unused 1TB hard disk to replace the old one.
My first thought, due to past experience, was to use the Windows 7 DVD
to format and install Win 7 and to use it to create the other 2
partitions. Then I'd Restore the MR Image I made more than 2 weeks
before the symptoms appeared. (I have older ones too, if necessary.)
Which partitions did you image to make that image? If it was at least
the hidden and C: partitions, then I don't think there's any need to
format: restoring from the image is likely to create them anyway. And,
if you're sure that image is free of the problem, restoring from it is
going to be _much_ quicker than installing 7, doing all the updates,
installing other software you had installed, and tweaking both the OS
and the other software to how you like it.
(I'm assuming you have the Macrium CD to boot from, and the image on a
drive which the PC when booted from the CD can see.)
You have nothing to lose by trying it, anyway, other than time! That is
to say, put in your new unused drive, connect the drive [presumably an
external drive accessed via USB?] with the image on, put in the Macrium
boot CD, and boot; then, when it has booted, select the image to restore
from, and the (new) drive to restore to, then do it, then shut down,
remove the CD and image drive, and boot to see what happens. I suspect
you'll find you have the partitions you included when you made that
image. If that didn't include D: and E:, then their space will probably
be unallocated on the drive. If that's so, I'd use the W7 utility at
that stage to allocate them, then restore from them ...
Post by D***@MadCow.net
Then I'd take previously made images of D: and E: and restore them to
the new hard disk. I feel pretty confident about this method.
... like that. (I'm not even sure you have to allocate them beforehand,
or whether just restoring the D: and E: images would create them anyway.
I just didn't want them to restore over the C: you'd just restored.)
Post by D***@MadCow.net
I've never used MR Cloning, but after looking at the manual that might
be ok but I have a concern about the possibility of bringing something
unwanted from the old (bad?) hard disk over to the new one.
Wondering what you think, or have experienced.
I've only used MR cloning once, and it went without a hitch; however,
that was just to go from a drive I had no concerns about to a larger
one. (After the cloning, I had the partitions - at the sizes - I had on
the smaller one, with the rest unallocated; I just did some moving
about, resizing, etc., using the normal W7 utility, to use all of the
new disc.) However, I'm with you - if there's a chance there might be
something rotten in the state of Denmark on your existing disc, I'd say
"restore" from known good images to your new disc. Nothing to lose
(except time) by trying, anyway!
I would first examine the MRIMG file, to see what's been captured
in it. If it only held a DATA partition for example, then we'd
need to install Windows 7 on the disk too perhaps. Knowing what
is inside the backup, is critical.
If it includes System Reserved and C: , then chances are a simple
"restore to new hard drive" from the MRIMG, is sufficient.
Macrium has options to let you "look inside" an MRIMG. From
the Restore menu, you should be able to Browse for MRIMG files.
And the nice thing is, you can unplug the old drive (with the power off),
plug in the new restored drive, and it should boot off the two-week-old
image.
And you have your choice of places to work. The new hard drive
could be connected to a fully working machine, and restored
in there. As long as you're careful not to overwrite the
wrong disk drive. If you have a Macrium Rescue CD, then you
don't actually need a Windows OS drive plugged into the machine
where the restore is being done.
New_Drive
Backup_holding_Drive
Optical drive (boots Macrium CD)
That's enough to kick off the preparation of the New_Drive.
Do not boot from the New_Drive, until it's reinstalled in the
suspect machine, and it is by itself. Then, give it a shot
and see what happens. You can bring over any left-over data
files from the old disk later, as the need (or capability) arises.
Paul
Thanks to both of you.

To answer some of your questions:

The only partitions I image routinely is the System Reserved and Drive
C: in one image (Partitions required to backup and restore Windows).
This is what I would use to restore from.

I keep these MR images on a separate physical drive in this computer
and put a copy on an external USB HD for extra safety.

The image I would make before starting would be Drive D: (lots of data
and saved stuff). Drive E: would be easy to just backup somewhere
else.

I wasn't sure if the MR restore from image will create at least the
System Reserved and Drive C: partitions automatically. I'm going to
try that, as soon as I'm sure I have everything ready.

I will disconnect or remove the existing (bad?) HD and install the new
blank one in its place. Then boot the MR Rescue Disk to restore using
the 02/25/18 MR image stored on Drive H: (physically different from
the old HD).

After booting the new disk I should be able to create the partitions
D: and E: and restore them


Hope to get to that tomorrow. Will let yo know how it goes.

Thank You for your help!

DC
Paul
2018-03-19 20:13:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by D***@MadCow.net
Post by Paul
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by D***@MadCow.net
I took your advice and tested the memory.
[and it's OK.]
Post by D***@MadCow.net
So I think the next thing is to replace the hard disk. I'd like your
opinion on which way would insure the best result.
The hard disk is 1TB with the System Reserved partitions plus Drives
C:, D:, and E:.
I have an identical new unused 1TB hard disk to replace the old one.
My first thought, due to past experience, was to use the Windows 7 DVD
to format and install Win 7 and to use it to create the other 2
partitions. Then I'd Restore the MR Image I made more than 2 weeks
before the symptoms appeared. (I have older ones too, if necessary.)
Which partitions did you image to make that image? If it was at least
the hidden and C: partitions, then I don't think there's any need to
format: restoring from the image is likely to create them anyway. And,
if you're sure that image is free of the problem, restoring from it is
going to be _much_ quicker than installing 7, doing all the updates,
installing other software you had installed, and tweaking both the OS
and the other software to how you like it.
(I'm assuming you have the Macrium CD to boot from, and the image on a
drive which the PC when booted from the CD can see.)
You have nothing to lose by trying it, anyway, other than time! That is
to say, put in your new unused drive, connect the drive [presumably an
external drive accessed via USB?] with the image on, put in the Macrium
boot CD, and boot; then, when it has booted, select the image to restore
from, and the (new) drive to restore to, then do it, then shut down,
remove the CD and image drive, and boot to see what happens. I suspect
you'll find you have the partitions you included when you made that
image. If that didn't include D: and E:, then their space will probably
be unallocated on the drive. If that's so, I'd use the W7 utility at
that stage to allocate them, then restore from them ...
Post by D***@MadCow.net
Then I'd take previously made images of D: and E: and restore them to
the new hard disk. I feel pretty confident about this method.
... like that. (I'm not even sure you have to allocate them beforehand,
or whether just restoring the D: and E: images would create them anyway.
I just didn't want them to restore over the C: you'd just restored.)
Post by D***@MadCow.net
I've never used MR Cloning, but after looking at the manual that might
be ok but I have a concern about the possibility of bringing something
unwanted from the old (bad?) hard disk over to the new one.
Wondering what you think, or have experienced.
I've only used MR cloning once, and it went without a hitch; however,
that was just to go from a drive I had no concerns about to a larger
one. (After the cloning, I had the partitions - at the sizes - I had on
the smaller one, with the rest unallocated; I just did some moving
about, resizing, etc., using the normal W7 utility, to use all of the
new disc.) However, I'm with you - if there's a chance there might be
something rotten in the state of Denmark on your existing disc, I'd say
"restore" from known good images to your new disc. Nothing to lose
(except time) by trying, anyway!
I would first examine the MRIMG file, to see what's been captured
in it. If it only held a DATA partition for example, then we'd
need to install Windows 7 on the disk too perhaps. Knowing what
is inside the backup, is critical.
If it includes System Reserved and C: , then chances are a simple
"restore to new hard drive" from the MRIMG, is sufficient.
Macrium has options to let you "look inside" an MRIMG. From
the Restore menu, you should be able to Browse for MRIMG files.
And the nice thing is, you can unplug the old drive (with the power off),
plug in the new restored drive, and it should boot off the two-week-old
image.
And you have your choice of places to work. The new hard drive
could be connected to a fully working machine, and restored
in there. As long as you're careful not to overwrite the
wrong disk drive. If you have a Macrium Rescue CD, then you
don't actually need a Windows OS drive plugged into the machine
where the restore is being done.
New_Drive
Backup_holding_Drive
Optical drive (boots Macrium CD)
That's enough to kick off the preparation of the New_Drive.
Do not boot from the New_Drive, until it's reinstalled in the
suspect machine, and it is by itself. Then, give it a shot
and see what happens. You can bring over any left-over data
files from the old disk later, as the need (or capability) arises.
Paul
Thanks to both of you.
The only partitions I image routinely is the System Reserved and Drive
C: in one image (Partitions required to backup and restore Windows).
This is what I would use to restore from.
I keep these MR images on a separate physical drive in this computer
and put a copy on an external USB HD for extra safety.
The image I would make before starting would be Drive D: (lots of data
and saved stuff). Drive E: would be easy to just backup somewhere
else.
I wasn't sure if the MR restore from image will create at least the
System Reserved and Drive C: partitions automatically. I'm going to
try that, as soon as I'm sure I have everything ready.
I will disconnect or remove the existing (bad?) HD and install the new
blank one in its place. Then boot the MR Rescue Disk to restore using
the 02/25/18 MR image stored on Drive H: (physically different from
the old HD).
After booting the new disk I should be able to create the partitions
D: and E: and restore them
Hope to get to that tomorrow. Will let yo know how it goes.
Thank You for your help!
DC
You can restore directly to a new hard drive, with no
preparation of the new drive at all.

The restore process creates the partitions first, then
fills them up.

*******

There was one older Asus motherboard, which could be "upset"
by a new (blank) hard drive. It checked sector zero (the MBR), and
if the MBR was not initialized, the BIOS would freeze and not boot.
Needless to say, you need a second computer, to work with
such a beast in the house. (You'd fix up the hard drive
in a second computer, just enough so it wouldn't freeze the
machine when reinstalled.)

Paul
D***@MadCow.net
2018-03-20 20:51:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul
Post by D***@MadCow.net
Post by Paul
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by D***@MadCow.net
I took your advice and tested the memory.
[and it's OK.]
Post by D***@MadCow.net
So I think the next thing is to replace the hard disk. I'd like your
opinion on which way would insure the best result.
The hard disk is 1TB with the System Reserved partitions plus Drives
C:, D:, and E:.
I have an identical new unused 1TB hard disk to replace the old one.
My first thought, due to past experience, was to use the Windows 7 DVD
to format and install Win 7 and to use it to create the other 2
partitions. Then I'd Restore the MR Image I made more than 2 weeks
before the symptoms appeared. (I have older ones too, if necessary.)
Which partitions did you image to make that image? If it was at least
the hidden and C: partitions, then I don't think there's any need to
format: restoring from the image is likely to create them anyway. And,
if you're sure that image is free of the problem, restoring from it is
going to be _much_ quicker than installing 7, doing all the updates,
installing other software you had installed, and tweaking both the OS
and the other software to how you like it.
(I'm assuming you have the Macrium CD to boot from, and the image on a
drive which the PC when booted from the CD can see.)
You have nothing to lose by trying it, anyway, other than time! That is
to say, put in your new unused drive, connect the drive [presumably an
external drive accessed via USB?] with the image on, put in the Macrium
boot CD, and boot; then, when it has booted, select the image to restore
from, and the (new) drive to restore to, then do it, then shut down,
remove the CD and image drive, and boot to see what happens. I suspect
you'll find you have the partitions you included when you made that
image. If that didn't include D: and E:, then their space will probably
be unallocated on the drive. If that's so, I'd use the W7 utility at
that stage to allocate them, then restore from them ...
Post by D***@MadCow.net
Then I'd take previously made images of D: and E: and restore them to
the new hard disk. I feel pretty confident about this method.
... like that. (I'm not even sure you have to allocate them beforehand,
or whether just restoring the D: and E: images would create them anyway.
I just didn't want them to restore over the C: you'd just restored.)
Post by D***@MadCow.net
I've never used MR Cloning, but after looking at the manual that might
be ok but I have a concern about the possibility of bringing something
unwanted from the old (bad?) hard disk over to the new one.
Wondering what you think, or have experienced.
I've only used MR cloning once, and it went without a hitch; however,
that was just to go from a drive I had no concerns about to a larger
one. (After the cloning, I had the partitions - at the sizes - I had on
the smaller one, with the rest unallocated; I just did some moving
about, resizing, etc., using the normal W7 utility, to use all of the
new disc.) However, I'm with you - if there's a chance there might be
something rotten in the state of Denmark on your existing disc, I'd say
"restore" from known good images to your new disc. Nothing to lose
(except time) by trying, anyway!
I would first examine the MRIMG file, to see what's been captured
in it. If it only held a DATA partition for example, then we'd
need to install Windows 7 on the disk too perhaps. Knowing what
is inside the backup, is critical.
If it includes System Reserved and C: , then chances are a simple
"restore to new hard drive" from the MRIMG, is sufficient.
Macrium has options to let you "look inside" an MRIMG. From
the Restore menu, you should be able to Browse for MRIMG files.
And the nice thing is, you can unplug the old drive (with the power off),
plug in the new restored drive, and it should boot off the two-week-old
image.
And you have your choice of places to work. The new hard drive
could be connected to a fully working machine, and restored
in there. As long as you're careful not to overwrite the
wrong disk drive. If you have a Macrium Rescue CD, then you
don't actually need a Windows OS drive plugged into the machine
where the restore is being done.
New_Drive
Backup_holding_Drive
Optical drive (boots Macrium CD)
That's enough to kick off the preparation of the New_Drive.
Do not boot from the New_Drive, until it's reinstalled in the
suspect machine, and it is by itself. Then, give it a shot
and see what happens. You can bring over any left-over data
files from the old disk later, as the need (or capability) arises.
Paul
Thanks to both of you.
The only partitions I image routinely is the System Reserved and Drive
C: in one image (Partitions required to backup and restore Windows).
This is what I would use to restore from.
I keep these MR images on a separate physical drive in this computer
and put a copy on an external USB HD for extra safety.
The image I would make before starting would be Drive D: (lots of data
and saved stuff). Drive E: would be easy to just backup somewhere
else.
I wasn't sure if the MR restore from image will create at least the
System Reserved and Drive C: partitions automatically. I'm going to
try that, as soon as I'm sure I have everything ready.
I will disconnect or remove the existing (bad?) HD and install the new
blank one in its place. Then boot the MR Rescue Disk to restore using
the 02/25/18 MR image stored on Drive H: (physically different from
the old HD).
After booting the new disk I should be able to create the partitions
D: and E: and restore them
Hope to get to that tomorrow. Will let yo know how it goes.
Thank You for your help!
DC
You can restore directly to a new hard drive, with no
preparation of the new drive at all.
The restore process creates the partitions first, then
fills them up.
*******
There was one older Asus motherboard, which could be "upset"
by a new (blank) hard drive. It checked sector zero (the MBR), and
if the MBR was not initialized, the BIOS would freeze and not boot.
Needless to say, you need a second computer, to work with
such a beast in the house. (You'd fix up the hard drive
in a second computer, just enough so it wouldn't freeze the
machine when reinstalled.)
Paul
Oh Happy Day!

Looks like the new hard disk solved the problem.

Used the MR rescue disk to restore the 02/25/18 image and it did
create the system Reserve and Drive C: partitions. No problem there.

Win 7 Disk Management took care of the other two partitions from
unallocated space remaining.

Before starting the disk swap, I made a MR image of my drive D: which
contained tons of stuff including the My Documents folder which I had
moved from drive C: a long time ago, for efficiency reasons. It took
a long time and said it was successful. But looking in the My
Documents folder scared the crap out of me. It was empty, except for
1 empty folder named "Reflect". Yikes! I mounted the image and
found the same thing. The entire My documents folder was gone,
including my iTunes library of over 1000 songs.

Luckily, I had made a copy & paste backup of the entire drive D: 2
days ago and was able to use that instead of the image to put in the
new drive D: So all is well.

Thanks to you and every one else that helped me to get this fixed.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-03-20 21:29:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message <***@4ax.com>,
***@MadCow.net writes:
[]
Post by D***@MadCow.net
Oh Happy Day!
Looks like the new hard disk solved the problem.
Used the MR rescue disk to restore the 02/25/18 image and it did
create the system Reserve and Drive C: partitions. No problem there.
Win 7 Disk Management took care of the other two partitions from
unallocated space remaining.
That's what I'd have expected. (Just out of curiosity, why do you have
_two_ data partitions?)
[]
Post by D***@MadCow.net
found the same thing. The entire My documents folder was gone,
including my iTunes library of over 1000 songs.
Luckily, I had made a copy & paste backup of the entire drive D: 2
days ago and was able to use that instead of the image to put in the
new drive D: So all is well.
By "copy and paste", I presume you mean just a plain copy (not using
Macrium to pack everything up into an image). Personally, I can't see a
lot of advantage in using Macrium (or anything else) to make an _image_
of a just data partition, unless the compression is important to you.
I'm willing to forgo the compression to be able to access the files in
the copy just with Explorer. (YMMV.) I still cycle between two or three
such copies, using SyncToy to speed the copying process (it only copies
new and changed files).
Post by D***@MadCow.net
Thanks to you and every one else that helped me to get this fixed.
You're welcome! Glad you're up and running again.

Don't forget to make a new image (of hidden and C:, and some sort of
backup/copy of D: and E:) soon (-:!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"He who will not reason is a bigot;
he who cannot is a fool;
he who dares not is a slave."
- Sir William Drummond

Above all things, use your mind.
Don't be that bigot, fool, or slave.
D***@MadCow.net
2018-03-21 19:58:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 21:29:10 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by D***@MadCow.net
Oh Happy Day!
Looks like the new hard disk solved the problem.
Used the MR rescue disk to restore the 02/25/18 image and it did
create the system Reserve and Drive C: partitions. No problem there.
Win 7 Disk Management took care of the other two partitions from
unallocated space remaining.
That's what I'd have expected. (Just out of curiosity, why do you have
_two_ data partitions?)
In total, I have 3 hard disks:

Disk 1: System partition and Drive C:
Disk 1: Drive D: For data and video downloaded or captured from DVR.
Disk 1: Drive E: For backup copies of MR images.

Disk 2: Drive F: For News and Email using Forte Agent.
Disk 2: Drive G: For in-process video and other misc. stuff.
Disk 2: Drive H: For Primary storage of MR images.

Disk 3: 1TB drive for duplicate backups and whatever.

I also have 2 1TB USB external drives for backup, several flash drives
and a bunch of DVDs for backup

Talk about redundant...
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by D***@MadCow.net
found the same thing. The entire My documents folder was gone,
including my iTunes library of over 1000 songs.
Luckily, I had made a copy & paste backup of the entire drive D: 2
days ago and was able to use that instead of the image to put in the
new drive D: So all is well.
By "copy and paste", I presume you mean just a plain copy (not using
Macrium to pack everything up into an image).
Yes.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Personally, I can't see a
lot of advantage in using Macrium (or anything else) to make an _image_
of a just data partition, unless the compression is important to you.
I'm willing to forgo the compression to be able to access the files in
the copy just with Explorer.
I agree.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
(YMMV.) I still cycle between two or three
such copies, using SyncToy to speed the copying process (it only copies
new and changed files).
Post by D***@MadCow.net
Thanks to you and every one else that helped me to get this fixed.
You're welcome! Glad you're up and running again.
Don't forget to make a new image (of hidden and C:, and some sort of
backup/copy of D: and E:) soon (-:!
Done.

Thanks,

DC
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-03-22 02:03:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by D***@MadCow.net
On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 21:29:10 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by D***@MadCow.net
Oh Happy Day!
Looks like the new hard disk solved the problem.
Used the MR rescue disk to restore the 02/25/18 image and it did
create the system Reserve and Drive C: partitions. No problem there.
Win 7 Disk Management took care of the other two partitions from
unallocated space remaining.
That's what I'd have expected. (Just out of curiosity, why do you have
_two_ data partitions?)
Disk 1: Drive D: For data and video downloaded or captured from DVR.
Disk 1: Drive E: For backup copies of MR images.
Ah. I initially thought of doing that (I was going to call it drive Z),
but decided if the drive is going to fail ...
Post by D***@MadCow.net
Disk 2: Drive F: For News and Email using Forte Agent.
Disk 2: Drive G: For in-process video and other misc. stuff.
Disk 2: Drive H: For Primary storage of MR images.
Disk 3: 1TB drive for duplicate backups and whatever.
I also have 2 1TB USB external drives for backup, several flash drives
and a bunch of DVDs for backup
Talk about redundant...
(-: You can never have too many backups if you have the time to keep
making them, though you must come close!
[]
Post by D***@MadCow.net
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Personally, I can't see a
lot of advantage in using Macrium (or anything else) to make an _image_
of a just data partition, unless the compression is important to you.
I'm willing to forgo the compression to be able to access the files in
the copy just with Explorer.
I agree.
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Now, don't worry. We'll be right behind you. Hiding. (First series, fit the
sixth.)
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-03-19 23:52:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message <***@4ax.com>,
***@MadCow.net writes:
[]
Post by D***@MadCow.net
The only partitions I image routinely is the System Reserved and Drive
C: in one image (Partitions required to backup and restore Windows).
This is what I would use to restore from.
[]
Post by D***@MadCow.net
I wasn't sure if the MR restore from image will create at least the
System Reserved and Drive C: partitions automatically. I'm going to
try that, as soon as I'm sure I have everything ready.
That worked for me: like you, I image the hidden and C: partitions only.
I restored from such an image to a brand-new drive, and ended up with a
drive which, when put back into the system from which the original image
had been made, booted up into Windows. (It made partitions of the same
size as they had been; since the new drive was bigger, I then used the
normal utilities to resize C: (up a bit), and create D: to use the rest
of the (new) disc.
[]
Post by D***@MadCow.net
After booting the new disk I should be able to create the partitions
D: and E: and restore them
I don't _image_ my D:, I just copy it (using SyncToy to speed the
process), so that I can get at the copy if I need to without using
Macrium to get inside image files. But that is fairly irrelevant to the
current discussion.
Post by D***@MadCow.net
Hope to get to that tomorrow. Will let yo know how it goes.
Good luck!
Post by D***@MadCow.net
Thank You for your help!
DC
JPG
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The first banjo solo I played was actually just a series of mistakes. In fact
it was all the mistakes I knew at the time. - Tim Dowling, RT2015/6/20-26
D***@MadCow.net
2018-03-20 20:52:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 23:52:32 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by D***@MadCow.net
The only partitions I image routinely is the System Reserved and Drive
C: in one image (Partitions required to backup and restore Windows).
This is what I would use to restore from.
[]
Post by D***@MadCow.net
I wasn't sure if the MR restore from image will create at least the
System Reserved and Drive C: partitions automatically. I'm going to
try that, as soon as I'm sure I have everything ready.
That worked for me: like you, I image the hidden and C: partitions only.
I restored from such an image to a brand-new drive, and ended up with a
drive which, when put back into the system from which the original image
had been made, booted up into Windows. (It made partitions of the same
size as they had been; since the new drive was bigger, I then used the
normal utilities to resize C: (up a bit), and create D: to use the rest
of the (new) disc.
[]
Post by D***@MadCow.net
After booting the new disk I should be able to create the partitions
D: and E: and restore them
I don't _image_ my D:, I just copy it (using SyncToy to speed the
process), so that I can get at the copy if I need to without using
Macrium to get inside image files. But that is fairly irrelevant to the
current discussion.
Post by D***@MadCow.net
Hope to get to that tomorrow. Will let yo know how it goes.
Good luck!
Post by D***@MadCow.net
Thank You for your help!
DC
JPG
All is well. Thanks for your help.

To see the details, read my reply to Paul.

DC
Mike S
2018-03-19 03:36:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by D***@MadCow.net
Post by Paul
Post by D***@MadCow.net
Wasn't very dirty but cleaned filters & fans. Reseated SATA data
cables on both ends, video card and it's connector and some of the
other connectors on the motherboard.
Opened latches on memory cards, wiggled them and reseated & locked
them.
Problem still exists. Cold started once then used restart which
failed on the 4th time.
Now I think the restart time (from entering password to the desktop)
displaying is longer.
Have 16GB RAM, in 4 - 4GB sticks. Is there a reason to swap their
position to see if the first one is flaky?
DC
You don't use Windows as a paper towel for a "memory spill".
Bad memory damages Windows. It can corrupt the contents of Registry files.
(And in my case, it ruined two backups I'd made of the C: drive. They
both had verify errors and I couldn't restore from them.)
Testing and testing and testing, when you known bad RAM is present,
is not wise. If you're worried about OS contents (your data files
and so on), pull the drive from the desktop, take it to a second desktop
with *good functional RAM*, make your backup, then bring the drive
back. You'll be a lot happier than I was, if you do. If symptoms
go South on you, you'll have that one good backup waiting for
you on the other equipment.
*******
This is the Windows 7 memory diagnostic. I was surprised, that a Windows
memory diagnostic I tested one day, actually worked. I wasn't expecting
it to be as capable as third-party versions.
https://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/715-memory-diagnostics-tool.html
*******
However, memtest.org also has standalone media which I like
for a test. Takes about two hours or so to run a "complete pass".
Pressing the <esc> key causes the computer to reboot, when
you're satisfied with whatever answer the program gives.
Windows is not booted, while you're using this. In fact,
you could even have the C: drive completely unplugged
while this runs. I use this on new systems, before a hard
drive is connected.
If you scroll half way down the memtest.org page, there
are downloads that can make a bootable CD, a download
that will load the test tool onto a bootable USB stick,
as well as the traditional floppy image. (You can do the
media preparation on a known working computer.) I keep a floppy
next to my desk for the machines here. The machine I'm
typing on has a floppy drive. The newer computer, I use
a USB floppy drive, as the motherboard no longer
supports a floppy interface. The floppy version of memtest
still boots from the USB floppy drive.
In the case of my last memory failure, the results were
non-committal. Testing 4x2GB, I would get a couple errors,
proving I had [some] problem. Testing any combination of 2x2GB
or testing the 2GB sticks one at a time gave no errors!
Very annoying. I replaced all four sticks. The sticks (Kingston)
had been suspicious from day one, as with no memory Vdimm boost,
the chips ran warmer than I'm used to for memory. From
installation day onwards, I'd been running a fan over
top of those. And they still took a crap on me.
Paul
I'm confused now. I was thinking a new HD which I have, was what I
needed. I have a MR Image 02/25/18 that I think was good. The recent
symptoms did not start until 03/13/18. After I restored that 02/25/18
image it seemed ok for a few days (?), then the symptoms started
again.
All my MR images are verified, so I'm trusting they are good. I
figure if I restore from a verified image that was made a few weeks
before the symptoms appeared, that image should work good. Yes/No?
Today, again, Chkdsk did not report any bad sectors. Now I'm not sure
if that is believable.
Your are raising the possibility of bad memory. Is that where you
think I should be looking?
The memory I've been using here for almost 6 years is
Corsair, 16GB (4 x4GB) Vengeance PC3-12800DDR3 1600MHz, CL9
(9-9-9-24), 1.5v SDRAM DIMM, non-ECC. I don't know where to get
replacements for that. Could I just try moving the first 2 to the end
and move the last 2 to the front where they'd be used for booting
Window? And if that works, remove the last 2 and see how it works
with only 8GB? Or is that too simple.
All this work takes a lot of time that is difficult for me so I'd like
to be going down the right road. I value your judgment, so what do
you think?
Thanks,
DC
How about booting from a Linux DVD and looking at the SMART data. Ubuntu
has a Disk Utility with a gui that's easy to use:

https://askubuntu.com/questions/528072/how-can-i-check-the-smart-status-of-a-ssd-or-hdd-on-current-versions-of-ubuntu-1
Good Guy
2018-03-18 18:00:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by D***@MadCow.net
Suggestions very welcome, but keep them fairly simple, please.
Reformat the hard disk and start again. Can't get any simpler than
that!!. If the problem persists after you do this than you know you
need the assistance of a Geek that is where Indians or Chinese
technicians comes handy who can fix your machine cheaply and remotely
assuming you have a fast internet connection. Don't go to that Rogue
Trader calling himself T (for Todd). He is a complete idiot defrauding
his customers.
Post by D***@MadCow.net
/--- This email has been checked for viruses by
Windows Defender software.
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--
With over 600 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
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