Discussion:
All Browsers Keep Giving Incorrect Location
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Boris
2018-04-19 20:13:15 UTC
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More of a browser question, but here goes...

This happens on my Windows 7 HP and Windows 10 machines. I haven't tried
it on any lower Microsoft OSs.

It also happens in Edge, IE11, and Thunderbird.

What happens is whenever I go to www.wheelworks.net, using any OS/browser
combination, the site always shows (in the upper right-hand corner), "Your
Store, Rohnert Park, CA".

I'm not anywhere near Rohnert Park, CA. I can change the store location
by entering my zip or city, and that works. But once I exit the browser,
and launch again, Rohnert Park, CA shows as my store again. BTW, I have
all browsers set to delete history, etc. on exit.

If, when using IE, I say "Allow once" to "wheelworks want to track your
physical location", the screen automatically refreshes, but still shows
Rohnert Park, CA as my store.

There was one (or maybe two) other site(s) that also sit on Rohnert Parc,
CA, but I can't remember which.

This has been happening for about a year.

All machines are behind a router; the Win7 is ethernetted, the others are
wifi. My ISP is Comcast, with a Comcast modem, and the router is set DHCP.

Any ideas on why this is happening, and/or how to fix it? This isn't
critical, but more curious to me.

TIA
Bob_S
2018-04-20 00:10:23 UTC
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Post by Boris
More of a browser question, but here goes...
This happens on my Windows 7 HP and Windows 10 machines. I haven't tried
it on any lower Microsoft OSs.
It also happens in Edge, IE11, and Thunderbird.
What happens is whenever I go to www.wheelworks.net, using any OS/browser
combination, the site always shows (in the upper right-hand corner), "Your
Store, Rohnert Park, CA".
I'm not anywhere near Rohnert Park, CA. I can change the store location
by entering my zip or city, and that works. But once I exit the browser,
and launch again, Rohnert Park, CA shows as my store again. BTW, I have
all browsers set to delete history, etc. on exit.
If, when using IE, I say "Allow once" to "wheelworks want to track your
physical location", the screen automatically refreshes, but still shows
Rohnert Park, CA as my store.
There was one (or maybe two) other site(s) that also sit on Rohnert Parc,
CA, but I can't remember which.
This has been happening for about a year.
All machines are behind a router; the Win7 is ethernetted, the others are
wifi. My ISP is Comcast, with a Comcast modem, and the router is set DHCP.
Any ideas on why this is happening, and/or how to fix it? This isn't
critical, but more curious to me.
TIA
Your location is based on your IP address that is provided by your ISP. If
your ISP servers are 25 miles away (or a thousand), then the geo-location of
the server is provided as your location. As for entering a zip code into
the website and it still showing the wrong location, could be there is no
store in the zip code you are entering.

Geo-location depends on the accuracy of the databases it uses. Trying using
a WhoIs site for a particular IP address and you may find a half dozen (or
more) entries showing that IP address is in 6 different countries.

This may help explain more and you can certainly search on "geo-location
services".

https://whatismyipaddress.com/geolocation
--
Bob S.
VanguardLH
2018-04-20 01:23:59 UTC
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Post by Bob_S
Post by Boris
More of a browser question, but here goes...
This happens on my Windows 7 HP and Windows 10 machines. I haven't tried
it on any lower Microsoft OSs.
It also happens in Edge, IE11, and Thunderbird.
What happens is whenever I go to www.wheelworks.net, using any OS/browser
combination, the site always shows (in the upper right-hand corner), "Your
Store, Rohnert Park, CA".
I'm not anywhere near Rohnert Park, CA. I can change the store location
by entering my zip or city, and that works. But once I exit the browser,
and launch again, Rohnert Park, CA shows as my store again. BTW, I have
all browsers set to delete history, etc. on exit.
If, when using IE, I say "Allow once" to "wheelworks want to track your
physical location", the screen automatically refreshes, but still shows
Rohnert Park, CA as my store.
There was one (or maybe two) other site(s) that also sit on Rohnert Parc,
CA, but I can't remember which.
This has been happening for about a year.
All machines are behind a router; the Win7 is ethernetted, the others are
wifi. My ISP is Comcast, with a Comcast modem, and the router is set DHCP.
Any ideas on why this is happening, and/or how to fix it? This isn't
critical, but more curious to me.
TIA
Your location is based on your IP address that is provided by your ISP. If
your ISP servers are 25 miles away (or a thousand), then the geo-location of
the server is provided as your location. As for entering a zip code into
the website and it still showing the wrong location, could be there is no
store in the zip code you are entering.
Geo-location depends on the accuracy of the databases it uses. Trying using
a WhoIs site for a particular IP address and you may find a half dozen (or
more) entries showing that IP address is in 6 different countries.
This may help explain more and you can certainly search on "geo-location
services".
https://whatismyipaddress.com/geolocation
Geolocation by IP address (by using databases of where are the IP pools)
is a very old method and definitely not reliable. It doesn't show where
is the end user. It shows where is the IP pool for that customer's ISP.
Nowadays sites will use Javascript to query the geolocation object.

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Geolocation
"The Geolocation interface represents an object able to
programmatically obtain the position of the device."

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/does-firefox-share-my-location-websites
By default, Firefox uses Google Location Services to determine your
location by sending:
- your computer’s IP address,
- information about the nearby wireless access points, and
- a random client identifier, which is assigned by Google, that
expires every 2 weeks.

So Mozilla uses Google's Location Services in Firefox. Obviously Google
is going to use the same service for their Chrome product. The IP
address is used a a regional attribute. It's like sorting out the
apples from a barrel of mixed fruit. It only gets maybe within a couple
hundred miles; however, large ISPs might use load balancing so you end
up exiting their network in other than their local IP pool in your
region.

When using wi-fi connected hosts, yes, I can see how they can collect
information about what wi-fi hotspots your wi-fi enabled host can
detect. However, if you're using a wired Ethernet connection to a wired
router to a wired cable modem then I cannot see how any wi-fi hotspots
(by their SSIDs) can be detected. Even if the cable modem was a combo
router/modem with wi-fi, the client isn't running in that network node
to do any collection of wi-fi hotspots. You would need to use a wi-fi
capable and enabled host, like a mobile device. Cell tower data is also
collected to provide location data; however, I can't see that data would
be available unless the host was a cell phone or had some cellular
hardware to connect to cell towers (whether or not your cellular service
contracts to use those nearby towers since your cell phone has to
connect to them, anyway, before it can determine if your cellular
carrier is there). The IP address gets used as a crude measure but the
client collects other RF-based information, if available, to get
location data from those sources. If the host is not a cell phone, cell
tower location data isn't available to the geolocating client. If the
host has no wi-fi capability, no wi-fi hotspot location data, either.
With a non-cellular non-wifi host, it's down to the IP address and that
has never proven to be a reliable locator as it can often be way too
coarse a measure.

In Firefox and Google Chrome, I've disabled geolocation. In Firefox,
change the geo.enabled setting in about:config. In Google Chrome, it's
under Settings -> Advanced -> Privacy -> Content settings -> Location.
If a site wants to see where I am, it will be from me telling them, like
picking a store from their Store Locator selector. I'm not going to
bother blocking all those geo requests when extreme few will ever be
allowed by me. I don't need to wade through thousands of requests to
allow one or two.
Mayayana
2018-04-20 03:11:59 UTC
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"VanguardLH" <***@nguard.LH> wrote

| Geolocation by IP address (by using databases of where are the IP pools)
| is a very old method and definitely not reliable. It doesn't show where
| is the end user. It shows where is the IP pool for that customer's ISP.
| Nowadays sites will use Javascript to query the geolocation object.
|
| https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Geolocation
| "The Geolocation interface represents an object able to
| programmatically obtain the position of the device."
|

That's for mobile devices. It's worth disabling it in FF,
but it won't really function in a desktop, anyway.

Location by IP quality varies. I use a free database from
Maxmind.com to check IP addresses visiting my website.
In the cases I can check, it's generally within one town
accuracy. They claim their paid version is more accurate.
I imagine Google's version of that is probably especially
good just because they have access to so much data.
Ralph Fox
2018-04-20 08:58:27 UTC
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Post by Mayayana
| Geolocation by IP address (by using databases of where are the IP pools)
| is a very old method and definitely not reliable. It doesn't show where
| is the end user. It shows where is the IP pool for that customer's ISP.
| Nowadays sites will use Javascript to query the geolocation object.
|
| https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Geolocation
| "The Geolocation interface represents an object able to
| programmatically obtain the position of the device."
|
That's for mobile devices. It's worth disabling it in FF,
but it won't really function in a desktop, anyway.
In my desktop it worked very well, getting very close to where on
the street I am -- when I have wifi turned on.

Clearly the location service can pinpoint my location accurately
from knowing the dozen or so nearby wireless access points. See
bullet point 2 of the unsnipped text below.

<unsnip>
Post by Mayayana
| By default, Firefox uses Google Location Services to determine your
| - your computer’s IP address,
| - information about the nearby wireless access points, and
| - a random client identifier, which is assigned by Google, that
| expires every 2 weeks.
</unsnip>
Post by Mayayana
Location by IP quality varies. I use a free database from
Maxmind.com to check IP addresses visiting my website.
In the cases I can check, it's generally within one town
accuracy. They claim their paid version is more accurate.
I imagine Google's version of that is probably especially
good just because they have access to so much data.
--
Kind regards
Ralph
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-04-20 10:41:38 UTC
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Post by Ralph Fox
Post by Mayayana
| Geolocation by IP address (by using databases of where are the IP pools)
| is a very old method and definitely not reliable. It doesn't show where
| is the end user. It shows where is the IP pool for that customer's ISP.
[]
Post by Ralph Fox
Post by Mayayana
That's for mobile devices. It's worth disabling it in FF,
but it won't really function in a desktop, anyway.
In my desktop it worked very well, getting very close to where on
the street I am -- when I have wifi turned on.
[]
Post by Ralph Fox
Post by Mayayana
| - information about the nearby wireless access points, and
[]
I _assume_ that's for publicly-accessible wireless points, such as
McDonalds etcetera. If they know the location of private ones, it's a
_little_ scary, though I guess inevitable with time.

(Of the 12 - including mine - wifi networks I can see, all are private
ones; it also saddens me a _little_ that they're all but me rather
anonymous ones based on their ISP, i. e. everybody's left them at
default. I seem to be the only person who has changed my SSID.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Reality television. It's eroding the ability of good scripted television to
survive. - Patrick Duffy in Radio Times 2-8 February 2013
Ralph Fox
2018-04-20 11:35:28 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Ralph Fox
Post by Mayayana
| Geolocation by IP address (by using databases of where are the IP pools)
| is a very old method and definitely not reliable. It doesn't show where
| is the end user. It shows where is the IP pool for that customer's ISP.
[]
Post by Ralph Fox
Post by Mayayana
That's for mobile devices. It's worth disabling it in FF,
but it won't really function in a desktop, anyway.
In my desktop it worked very well, getting very close to where on
the street I am -- when I have wifi turned on.
[]
Post by Ralph Fox
Post by Mayayana
| - information about the nearby wireless access points, and
[]
I _assume_ that's for publicly-accessible wireless points, such as
McDonalds etcetera. If they know the location of private ones, it's a
_little_ scary, though I guess inevitable with time.
They are secured (you would need the WPA2 key to connect).
The nearest publicly-accessible wifi points are out of range.

If the wifi MAC addresses and SSIDs are visible to my PC, they
could also be visible to Google Street View cars (which have GPS)
and to Android devices with GPS in people's pockets walking by.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
(Of the 12 - including mine - wifi networks I can see, all are private
ones; it also saddens me a _little_ that they're all but me rather
anonymous ones based on their ISP, i. e. everybody's left them at
default. I seem to be the only person who has changed my SSID.)
--
Kind regards
Ralph
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-04-20 11:52:59 UTC
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[]
[]
Post by Ralph Fox
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Mayayana
| - information about the nearby wireless access points, and
[]
I _assume_ that's for publicly-accessible wireless points, such as
McDonalds etcetera. If they know the location of private ones, it's a
_little_ scary, though I guess inevitable with time.
They are secured (you would need the WPA2 key to connect).
The nearest publicly-accessible wifi points are out of range.
If the wifi MAC addresses and SSIDs are visible to my PC, they
could also be visible to Google Street View cars (which have GPS)
and to Android devices with GPS in people's pockets walking by.
True, but the Google cars don't come round often; I haven't seen one
anywhere in the parts of England I've been in for some years. (I think
they _did_ check wifi networks, as I remember some fuss being made about
them doing so.) I guess Android walkers would be more up-to-date, though
this would only work in urban areas where the footfall is sufficient.
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

A biochemist walks into a student bar and says to the barman: "I'd like a pint
of adenosine triphosphate, please." "Certainly," says the barman, "that'll be
ATP." (Quoted in) The Independent, 2013-7-13
Char Jackson
2018-04-20 16:35:27 UTC
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On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 11:41:38 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
(Of the 12 - including mine - wifi networks I can see, all are private
ones; it also saddens me a _little_ that they're all but me rather
anonymous ones based on their ISP, i. e. everybody's left them at
default. I seem to be the only person who has changed my SSID.)
Did you change it to something creative, or perhaps humorous?

I had an application back in the early 2000s, before such things were
commonplace and mainstream, that would log all of the SSIDs, their power
levels, protocol, encryption type, etc., and location if I'd had an
external GPS at the time with the right interface. I found it amusing to
take it along as I drove through the city, running errands. When I'd get
home, I'd scroll through the thousand or so SSIDs to see how creative
people were. Like you said, lots of defaults in the list, but some
people really took advantage of their ability to say something
semi-anonymously.
--
Char Jackson
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-04-20 17:01:36 UTC
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Post by Char Jackson
On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 11:41:38 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
(Of the 12 - including mine - wifi networks I can see, all are private
ones; it also saddens me a _little_ that they're all but me rather
anonymous ones based on their ISP, i. e. everybody's left them at
default. I seem to be the only person who has changed my SSID.)
Did you change it to something creative, or perhaps humorous?
Just short and recognisable.
Post by Char Jackson
I had an application back in the early 2000s, before such things were
commonplace and mainstream, that would log all of the SSIDs, their power
levels, protocol, encryption type, etc., and location if I'd had an
external GPS at the time with the right interface. I found it amusing to
take it along as I drove through the city, running errands. When I'd get
home, I'd scroll through the thousand or so SSIDs to see how creative
people were. Like you said, lots of defaults in the list, but some
people really took advantage of their ability to say something
semi-anonymously.
I did once genuinely come across an SSID of "show us your tits"! But as
you say, mostly bring defaults these days.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If you're worried that your house is haunted by a ghost and might need
exorcising, there's an easy way of working out if it is or it isn't: it isn't.
- Victoria Coren Mitchell, quoted in RT 2017/10/7-13
Char Jackson
2018-04-20 19:15:02 UTC
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On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 18:01:36 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Char Jackson
On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 11:41:38 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
(Of the 12 - including mine - wifi networks I can see, all are private
ones; it also saddens me a _little_ that they're all but me rather
anonymous ones based on their ISP, i. e. everybody's left them at
default. I seem to be the only person who has changed my SSID.)
Did you change it to something creative, or perhaps humorous?
Just short and recognisable.
Post by Char Jackson
I had an application back in the early 2000s, before such things were
commonplace and mainstream, that would log all of the SSIDs, their power
levels, protocol, encryption type, etc., and location if I'd had an
external GPS at the time with the right interface. I found it amusing to
take it along as I drove through the city, running errands. When I'd get
home, I'd scroll through the thousand or so SSIDs to see how creative
people were. Like you said, lots of defaults in the list, but some
people really took advantage of their ability to say something
semi-anonymously.
I did once genuinely come across an SSID of "show us your tits"! But as
you say, mostly bring defaults these days.
There's a weak one around my area that sometimes shows up in a scan,
called "WE_CAN_SEE_YOU_HAVING_SEX!" and another that says "FBI Field
Office", but the rest are either defaults or very tame. On this side of
the pond, the FBI is the Federal Bureau of Investigation and it would be
notable if they had a field office in or near my neighborhood, but it's
just someone having fun.
--
Char Jackson
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-04-20 20:50:13 UTC
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Post by Char Jackson
On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 18:01:36 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
[]
Post by Char Jackson
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I did once genuinely come across an SSID of "show us your tits"! But as
you say, mostly bring defaults these days.
There's a weak one around my area that sometimes shows up in a scan,
called "WE_CAN_SEE_YOU_HAVING_SEX!" and another that says "FBI Field
Office", but the rest are either defaults or very tame. On this side of
the pond, the FBI is the Federal Bureau of Investigation and it would be
notable if they had a field office in or near my neighborhood, but it's
just someone having fun.
Yes, and hurting nobody. However, I wouldn't be surprised if - were the
FBI to hear about it - they get done for impersonating a federal
official, or something like that. Some of these bodies (or some of the
people in them) have no sense of humour/fun.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The desire to remain private and/or anonymous used to be a core British value,
but in recent times it has been treated with suspicion - an unfortunate by-
product of the widespread desire for fame. - Chris Middleton,
Computing 6 September 2011
Ralph Fox
2018-04-20 22:54:53 UTC
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[...]
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Char Jackson
There's a weak one around my area that sometimes shows up in a scan,
called "WE_CAN_SEE_YOU_HAVING_SEX!" and another that says "FBI Field
Office", but the rest are either defaults or very tame. On this side of
the pond, the FBI is the Federal Bureau of Investigation and it would be
notable if they had a field office in or near my neighborhood, but it's
just someone having fun.
Yes, and hurting nobody. However, I wouldn't be surprised if - were the
FBI to hear about it - they get done for impersonating a federal
official, or something like that. Some of these bodies (or some of the
people in them) have no sense of humour/fun.
Several different organizations have US trademarks for "FBI" in different
lines of business. The letters FBI doesn't have to mean "Federal Bureau
of Investigation".


Go to: <http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=login&p_lang=english&p_d=trmk>
click on the link: "Basic Word Mark Search (New User)"
enter the search term: FBI
then click the button: "Submit Query".

When you are done, please click the "logout" button to release system
resources allocated for you.
--
Kind regards
Ralph
Mark Lloyd
2018-04-21 14:58:11 UTC
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On 04/20/2018 02:15 PM, Char Jackson wrote:

[snip]
Post by Char Jackson
There's a weak one around my area that sometimes shows up in a scan,
called "WE_CAN_SEE_YOU_HAVING_SEX!" and another that says "FBI Field
Office", but the rest are either defaults or very tame. On this side of
the pond, the FBI is the Federal Bureau of Investigation and it would be
notable if they had a field office in or near my neighborhood, but it's
just someone having fun.
For several years, there has been a network around here called "FBI
Surveillance".
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Asking about a time before the beginning of our spherical spacetime is
like asking what lies north of the North Pole. There is no such thing."
Taner Edis, Is Anybody Out There?
Mark Lloyd
2018-04-21 14:56:26 UTC
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On 04/20/2018 12:01 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

[snip]
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I did once genuinely come across an SSID of "show us your tits"! But as
you say, mostly bring defaults these days.
Several years ago, I found 3 networks around here with no security and a
SSID of "Linksys". A few days later a couple of the SSIDs had been
changed to "I'm so insecure" and "I want my WPA!". The third one was gone.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Asking about a time before the beginning of our spherical spacetime is
like asking what lies north of the North Pole. There is no such thing."
Taner Edis, Is Anybody Out There?
Mayayana
2018-04-20 12:53:22 UTC
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"Ralph Fox" <-rf-nz-@-.invalid> wrote

| > | https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Geolocation
| > | "The Geolocation interface represents an object able to
| > | programmatically obtain the position of the device."
| > |
| >
| > That's for mobile devices. It's worth disabling it in FF,
| > but it won't really function in a desktop, anyway.

| In my desktop it worked very well, getting very close to where on
| the street I am -- when I have wifi turned on.
|

That's interesting. And it doesn't work as well
if you're hard-wired? The Mozilla geo-location can
use several sources, so it could be working well just
based on IP. I don't see how it could locate you
on wifi unless you have several public access points
available. Whereas if you're on a phone it might
be able to locate you within feet. (Of course, if
you're on an Android then Google probably already
knows that.)

Either way, I guess that's one more reason I'm
glad I don't use wifi. (We have forced hot air heat
here, so it was a simple job to snake network cables
through $2 electrical conduits to reach most rooms.)
Boris
2018-04-20 04:22:05 UTC
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Post by VanguardLH
Post by Bob_S
Post by Boris
More of a browser question, but here goes...
This happens on my Windows 7 HP and Windows 10 machines. I haven't
tried it on any lower Microsoft OSs.
It also happens in Edge, IE11, and Thunderbird.
What happens is whenever I go to www.wheelworks.net, using any
OS/browser combination, the site always shows (in the upper right-hand
corner), "Your Store, Rohnert Park, CA".
I'm not anywhere near Rohnert Park, CA. I can change the store
location by entering my zip or city, and that works. But once I exit
the browser, and launch again, Rohnert Park, CA shows as my store
again. BTW, I have all browsers set to delete history, etc. on exit.
If, when using IE, I say "Allow once" to "wheelworks want to track your
physical location", the screen automatically refreshes, but still shows
Rohnert Park, CA as my store.
There was one (or maybe two) other site(s) that also sit on Rohnert
Parc, CA, but I can't remember which.
This has been happening for about a year.
All machines are behind a router; the Win7 is ethernetted, the others
are wifi. My ISP is Comcast, with a Comcast modem, and the router is
set DHCP.
Any ideas on why this is happening, and/or how to fix it? This isn't
critical, but more curious to me.
TIA
Your location is based on your IP address that is provided by your ISP.
If your ISP servers are 25 miles away (or a thousand), then the
geo-location of the server is provided as your location. As for
entering a zip code into the website and it still showing the wrong
location, could be there is no store in the zip code you are entering.
Geo-location depends on the accuracy of the databases it uses. Trying
using a WhoIs site for a particular IP address and you may find a half
dozen (or more) entries showing that IP address is in 6 different
countries.
This may help explain more and you can certainly search on
"geo-location services".
https://whatismyipaddress.com/geolocation
Geolocation by IP address (by using databases of where are the IP pools)
Yes.
Post by VanguardLH
is a very old method and definitely not reliable. It doesn't show where
is the end user. It shows where is the IP pool for that customer's ISP.
Nowadays sites will use Javascript to query the geolocation object.
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Geolocation
"The Geolocation interface represents an object able to
programmatically obtain the position of the device."
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/does-firefox-share-my-location-websi
tes
By default, Firefox uses Google Location Services to determine your
- your computer¢s IP address,
- information about the nearby wireless access points, and
- a random client identifier, which is assigned by Google, that
expires every 2 weeks.
So Mozilla uses Google's Location Services in Firefox. Obviously Google
is going to use the same service for their Chrome product. The IP
address is used a a regional attribute. It's like sorting out the
apples from a barrel of mixed fruit. It only gets maybe within a couple
hundred miles; however, large ISPs might use load balancing so you end
up exiting their network in other than their local IP pool in your
region.
When using wi-fi connected hosts, yes, I can see how they can collect
information about what wi-fi hotspots your wi-fi enabled host can
detect. However, if you're using a wired Ethernet connection to a wired
router to a wired cable modem then I cannot see how any wi-fi hotspots
(by their SSIDs) can be detected. Even if the cable modem was a combo
router/modem with wi-fi, the client isn't running in that network node
to do any collection of wi-fi hotspots. You would need to use a wi-fi
capable and enabled host, like a mobile device. Cell tower data is also
collected to provide location data; however, I can't see that data would
be available unless the host was a cell phone or had some cellular
hardware to connect to cell towers (whether or not your cellular service
contracts to use those nearby towers since your cell phone has to
connect to them, anyway, before it can determine if your cellular
carrier is there). The IP address gets used as a crude measure but the
client collects other RF-based information, if available, to get
location data from those sources. If the host is not a cell phone, cell
tower location data isn't available to the geolocating client. If the
host has no wi-fi capability, no wi-fi hotspot location data, either.
With a non-cellular non-wifi host, it's down to the IP address and that
has never proven to be a reliable locator as it can often be way too
coarse a measure.
In Firefox and Google Chrome, I've disabled geolocation. In Firefox,
change the geo.enabled setting in about:config. In Google Chrome, it's
under Settings -> Advanced -> Privacy -> Content settings -> Location.
If a site wants to see where I am, it will be from me telling them, like
picking a store from their Store Locator selector. I'm not going to
bother blocking all those geo requests when extreme few will ever be
allowed by me. I don't need to wade through thousands of requests to
allow one or two.
My home network goes from a Comcast modem (not a gateway), wired to a
wireless router. The modem and router sit on my desk, and one of the
router's ethernet ports is wired to the machine I'm using now, which is
also on my desk. IOW, I can see all three devices at once. The other
three ethernet ports are cabled to go through the walls and connect to
other desktops, and one access point. The wireless portion of the router
feeds all the laptops and one desktop (and printers), and of course mobile
devices such as phones.

I understand what you said about IP pools. I decided to do some
experimenting. I used my cell phone's browser to go to
www.wheelworks.net, and it still showed Rohnert Parc as my store. I
turned off my phone's wifi, and tried the site again, and it showed San
Jose, CA as my store. Well, San Jose is closer to me than Rohnert Parc,
but there are still three stores within 5-10 miles away.

I think this says that as long as I'm going through my router, the public
IP (which is shown in my router's status page) is in a pool that is handed
out by Comcast, and the IPs in that pool must be assigned to machines near
Rohnert Parc.

If I use my ATT cell phone, the mobile network hands out an IP that is
identified as being near San Jose.

Do I have this right?

If I do a 'where am I' in a google search, it gives the city I'm actually
in.
Boris
2018-04-20 03:58:21 UTC
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Post by Bob_S
Post by Boris
More of a browser question, but here goes...
This happens on my Windows 7 HP and Windows 10 machines. I haven't tried
it on any lower Microsoft OSs.
It also happens in Edge, IE11, and Thunderbird.
What happens is whenever I go to www.wheelworks.net, using any
OS/browser
Post by Bob_S
Post by Boris
combination, the site always shows (in the upper right-hand corner), "Your
Store, Rohnert Park, CA".
I'm not anywhere near Rohnert Park, CA. I can change the store location
by entering my zip or city, and that works. But once I exit the browser,
and launch again, Rohnert Park, CA shows as my store again. BTW, I have
all browsers set to delete history, etc. on exit.
If, when using IE, I say "Allow once" to "wheelworks want to track your
physical location", the screen automatically refreshes, but still shows
Rohnert Park, CA as my store.
There was one (or maybe two) other site(s) that also sit on Rohnert Parc,
CA, but I can't remember which.
This has been happening for about a year.
All machines are behind a router; the Win7 is ethernetted, the others are
wifi. My ISP is Comcast, with a Comcast modem, and the router is set DHCP.
Any ideas on why this is happening, and/or how to fix it? This isn't
critical, but more curious to me.
TIA
Your location is based on your IP address that is provided by your ISP.
If
Post by Bob_S
your ISP servers are 25 miles away (or a thousand), then the geo-
location of
Post by Bob_S
the server is provided as your location. As for entering a zip code into
the website and it still showing the wrong location, could be there is no
store in the zip code you are entering.
Perhaps you mis-read my post. My zip code does return the proper store
location, about 5 miles away.
Post by Bob_S
Geo-location depends on the accuracy of the databases it uses. Trying using
a WhoIs site for a particular IP address and you may find a half dozen (or
more) entries showing that IP address is in 6 different countries.
This may help explain more and you can certainly search on "geo-location
services".
https://whatismyipaddress.com/geolocation
Great information. Thanks.
Paul in Houston TX
2018-04-20 00:32:36 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Boris
More of a browser question, but here goes...
This happens on my Windows 7 HP and Windows 10 machines. I haven't tried
it on any lower Microsoft OSs.
It also happens in Edge, IE11, and Thunderbird.
What happens is whenever I go to www.wheelworks.net, using any OS/browser
combination, the site always shows (in the upper right-hand corner), "Your
Store, Rohnert Park, CA".
I'm not anywhere near Rohnert Park, CA. I can change the store location
by entering my zip or city, and that works. But once I exit the browser,
and launch again, Rohnert Park, CA shows as my store again. BTW, I have
all browsers set to delete history, etc. on exit.
If, when using IE, I say "Allow once" to "wheelworks want to track your
physical location", the screen automatically refreshes, but still shows
Rohnert Park, CA as my store.
There was one (or maybe two) other site(s) that also sit on Rohnert Parc,
CA, but I can't remember which.
This has been happening for about a year.
All machines are behind a router; the Win7 is ethernetted, the others are
wifi. My ISP is Comcast, with a Comcast modem, and the router is set DHCP.
Any ideas on why this is happening, and/or how to fix it? This isn't
critical, but more curious to me.
TIA
Maybe something wrong with their geolocator.
It thinks I am in Antioch, CA 94509-2657.
I'm not hiding my addy. Google gets it right.
Type "where am I" into google and see what pops up.
Boris
2018-04-20 04:23:21 UTC
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Post by Paul in Houston TX
Post by Boris
More of a browser question, but here goes...
This happens on my Windows 7 HP and Windows 10 machines. I haven't tried
it on any lower Microsoft OSs.
It also happens in Edge, IE11, and Thunderbird.
What happens is whenever I go to www.wheelworks.net, using any OS/browser
combination, the site always shows (in the upper right-hand corner), "Your
Store, Rohnert Park, CA".
I'm not anywhere near Rohnert Park, CA. I can change the store location
by entering my zip or city, and that works. But once I exit the browser,
and launch again, Rohnert Park, CA shows as my store again. BTW, I have
all browsers set to delete history, etc. on exit.
If, when using IE, I say "Allow once" to "wheelworks want to track your
physical location", the screen automatically refreshes, but still shows
Rohnert Park, CA as my store.
There was one (or maybe two) other site(s) that also sit on Rohnert Parc,
CA, but I can't remember which.
This has been happening for about a year.
All machines are behind a router; the Win7 is ethernetted, the others are
wifi. My ISP is Comcast, with a Comcast modem, and the router is set DHCP.
Any ideas on why this is happening, and/or how to fix it? This isn't
critical, but more curious to me.
TIA
Maybe something wrong with their geolocator.
It thinks I am in Antioch, CA 94509-2657.
I'm not hiding my addy. Google gets it right.
Type "where am I" into google and see what pops up.
Yep, google knows where I am. Surprise.
Ralph Fox
2018-04-20 08:35:54 UTC
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Post by Paul in Houston TX
Type "where am I" into google and see what pops up.
Google thinks I am 320 km away from where I am right now.

The server which assigned my current (dynamic) IP address is 500 km
away in the opposite direction.


Google could have built its own IP-address-to-location lookup by
remembering where in Google Maps users in the same /24 IP address
range most often zoom in on. That would not work very well in
my present situation, when those IP addresses are dynamically
assigned to users over a wide geographic area.
--
Kind regards
Ralph
Mark Lloyd
2018-04-20 16:54:06 UTC
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On 04/19/2018 07:32 PM, Paul in Houston TX wrote:

[snip]
Post by Paul in Houston TX
Maybe something wrong with their geolocator.
It thinks I am in Antioch, CA 94509-2657.
I'm not hiding my addy.  Google gets it right.
Type "where am I" into google and see what pops up.
For me, I get a location in my back yard. I'm surprised it's that good.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"There is no God." -- Percy Bysshe Shelley (1792-1822), opening line of
The Necessity Of Atheism, 1811
Paul
2018-04-20 04:27:39 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by Boris
More of a browser question, but here goes...
This happens on my Windows 7 HP and Windows 10 machines. I haven't tried
it on any lower Microsoft OSs.
It also happens in Edge, IE11, and Thunderbird.
What happens is whenever I go to www.wheelworks.net, using any OS/browser
combination, the site always shows (in the upper right-hand corner), "Your
Store, Rohnert Park, CA".
I'm not anywhere near Rohnert Park, CA. I can change the store location
by entering my zip or city, and that works. But once I exit the browser,
and launch again, Rohnert Park, CA shows as my store again. BTW, I have
all browsers set to delete history, etc. on exit.
If, when using IE, I say "Allow once" to "wheelworks want to track your
physical location", the screen automatically refreshes, but still shows
Rohnert Park, CA as my store.
There was one (or maybe two) other site(s) that also sit on Rohnert Parc,
CA, but I can't remember which.
This has been happening for about a year.
All machines are behind a router; the Win7 is ethernetted, the others are
wifi. My ISP is Comcast, with a Comcast modem, and the router is set DHCP.
Any ideas on why this is happening, and/or how to fix it? This isn't
critical, but more curious to me.
TIA
Be careful what you wish for.

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4213410/how-does-html5-geolocation-work

When all of the fancy methods aren't working (or were denied by user setting),
the web server can try to do reverse-lookup of the incoming ISP address,
which gives the "head office of the ISP" as your location. That's probably
where your Rohnert Park value is coming from.

Paul
David E. Ross
2018-04-20 05:25:35 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Boris
More of a browser question, but here goes...
This happens on my Windows 7 HP and Windows 10 machines. I haven't tried
it on any lower Microsoft OSs.
It also happens in Edge, IE11, and Thunderbird.
What happens is whenever I go to www.wheelworks.net, using any OS/browser
combination, the site always shows (in the upper right-hand corner), "Your
Store, Rohnert Park, CA".
I'm not anywhere near Rohnert Park, CA. I can change the store location
by entering my zip or city, and that works. But once I exit the browser,
and launch again, Rohnert Park, CA shows as my store again. BTW, I have
all browsers set to delete history, etc. on exit.
If, when using IE, I say "Allow once" to "wheelworks want to track your
physical location", the screen automatically refreshes, but still shows
Rohnert Park, CA as my store.
There was one (or maybe two) other site(s) that also sit on Rohnert Parc,
CA, but I can't remember which.
This has been happening for about a year.
All machines are behind a router; the Win7 is ethernetted, the others are
wifi. My ISP is Comcast, with a Comcast modem, and the router is set DHCP.
Any ideas on why this is happening, and/or how to fix it? This isn't
critical, but more curious to me.
TIA
I would consider mistaken geolocation to be a feature, not a problem.
Even if you try to disable your browser's support of geolocation, many
Web servers still attempt to find where you are.
--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

First you say you do, and then you don't.
And then you say you will, but then won't.
You're undecided now, so what're you goin' to do?
From a 1950s song
That should be Donald Trump's theme song. He obviously
does not understand "commitment", whether it is about
policy or marriage.
tesla sTinker
2018-04-22 20:55:02 UTC
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why is it happening? IP numerals. You never get to keep the same
ones. The real why is, how many IP numerals are being used at the same
time the same ones. Yes, that is why, spam is not worth a dam.
Same as all spam cops are communists. Get it in your head, no isp
provider will issue you the same IP numeral, unless you pay them extra
money for it. And even then, it will be used somewhere else in the
world at the very same time your on it. That is how many times they
have to issue it. Population of the internet used up all those
numerals long long time ago. Do you think, that this world is honest?
And that they will tell you, In this Apocalypse? Poor dummy Boris.

And that is why even the feds, cannot catch internet crooks. ISPs are
not required to trace private networks, so that what you get, is
incorrect data yes. And, it will always happen. Especially now today.
Since they have no way to cure the problem. Firewalls are
everywhere. And they will dial you up spam.
No problem. And there is no way to stop them. Go ahead, try and ask
them, and see what you get for an answer.
Post by Boris
More of a browser question, but here goes...
This happens on my Windows 7 HP and Windows 10 machines. I haven't tried
it on any lower Microsoft OSs.
It also happens in Edge, IE11, and Thunderbird.
What happens is whenever I go to www.wheelworks.net, using any OS/browser
combination, the site always shows (in the upper right-hand corner), "Your
Store, Rohnert Park, CA".
I'm not anywhere near Rohnert Park, CA. I can change the store location
by entering my zip or city, and that works. But once I exit the browser,
and launch again, Rohnert Park, CA shows as my store again. BTW, I have
all browsers set to delete history, etc. on exit.
If, when using IE, I say "Allow once" to "wheelworks want to track your
physical location", the screen automatically refreshes, but still shows
Rohnert Park, CA as my store.
There was one (or maybe two) other site(s) that also sit on Rohnert Parc,
CA, but I can't remember which.
This has been happening for about a year.
All machines are behind a router; the Win7 is ethernetted, the others are
wifi. My ISP is Comcast, with a Comcast modem, and the router is set DHCP.
Any ideas on why this is happening, and/or how to fix it? This isn't
critical, but more curious to me.
TIA
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