Discussion:
Windows 7 Pro Refurb PC Citizenship?
(too old to reply)
mike
2018-05-05 06:01:56 UTC
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I want to dump the PC that has the eSATA boot issues.
It's a pretty nice machine for general use. Win10
seems to have drivers.

It has a Windows XP Pro COA sticker.
Also has a Windows 7 Pro Refurb PC Citizenship sticker.
The sticker looks genuine.
Has no license key.
Reading the google suggests that the keys are supplied
separately and if you lose it, you're outaluck.
If there's a legal workaround for that, I'd like to hear it.
Somebody has paid for the license, I just want to put it back on.
I don't have the refurbisher version
or a refurbisher key. Not worth wasting a real key on this
system.

After reading about the guy doin' jail time for offering
copies of the free MS windows restore CD's to his refurb
customers, I'd like to avoid his
plight.

Selling used computers seems to be mired in legal hassle
these days.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-05-05 11:11:22 UTC
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Post by mike
I want to dump the PC that has the eSATA boot issues.
It's a pretty nice machine for general use. Win10
seems to have drivers.
It has a Windows XP Pro COA sticker.
Also has a Windows 7 Pro Refurb PC Citizenship sticker.
The sticker looks genuine.
Has no license key.
Maybe one of the key-extraction utilities, next time you _do_ manage to
get it booted in 7 (or XP), might produce something valid? (Belarc
Advisor I think extracts keys as well as lots of other useful stuff -
certainly does in XP. I don't know if the keys it extracts - or any of
the other utilities that do - are valid though.)
Post by mike
Reading the google suggests that the keys are supplied
separately and if you lose it, you're outaluck.
If there's a legal workaround for that, I'd like to hear it.
Somebody has paid for the license, I just want to put it back on.
Though they may have kept the "paperwork" (or electronic equivalent) and
the licence wasn't included in the $13 you paid for the machine. (You
obviously have a better quality set of junk shops round you than I do!)
Though if it was an OEM licence, it's tied to the machine anyway. (And
if it was upgraded, it's probably even more complicated.) Paul or VLH
(or anyone), can you clarify the situation?
Post by mike
I don't have the refurbisher version
or a refurbisher key. Not worth wasting a real key on this
system.
After reading about the guy doin' jail time for offering
copies of the free MS windows restore CD's to his refurb
customers, I'd like to avoid his
plight.
What, the one that you (including he and the customers) can make on the
machine itself? That seems a bit harsh to put it mildly!
Post by mike
Selling used computers seems to be mired in legal hassle
these days.
)-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

No, I haven't changed my mind - I'm perfectly happy with the one I have, thank
you.
David E. Ross
2018-05-05 15:19:33 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Maybe one of the key-extraction utilities, next time you _do_ manage to
get it booted in 7 (or XP), might produce something valid? (Belarc
Advisor I think extracts keys as well as lots of other useful stuff -
certainly does in XP. I don't know if the keys it extracts - or any of
the other utilities that do - are valid though.)
Another key-extraction application is Nirsoft's ProduKey.exe from
<http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/product_cd_key_viewer.html>. This
requires NO installation. It is in a ZIP file. Unzip it; you can do
this in another PC. If you unzip it in the target PC, then just execute
it. If you unzip it in another PC, move the unzipped files to the
target PC and then execute it.
--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

First you say you do, and then you don't.
And then you say you will, but then won't.
You're undecided now, so what're you goin' to do?
From a 1950s song
That should be Donald Trump's theme song. He obviously
does not understand "commitment", whether it is about
policy or marriage.
Sjouke Burry
2018-05-05 21:41:50 UTC
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Post by David E. Ross
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Maybe one of the key-extraction utilities, next time you _do_ manage to
get it booted in 7 (or XP), might produce something valid? (Belarc
Advisor I think extracts keys as well as lots of other useful stuff -
certainly does in XP. I don't know if the keys it extracts - or any of
the other utilities that do - are valid though.)
Another key-extraction application is Nirsoft's ProduKey.exe from
<http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/product_cd_key_viewer.html>. This
requires NO installation. It is in a ZIP file. Unzip it; you can do
this in another PC. If you unzip it in the target PC, then just execute
it. If you unzip it in another PC, move the unzipped files to the
target PC and then execute it.
Thanks. Stored for future use (worked for me on XP PRO SP3)
mike
2018-05-06 04:22:01 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by mike
I want to dump the PC that has the eSATA boot issues.
It's a pretty nice machine for general use. Win10
seems to have drivers.
It has a Windows XP Pro COA sticker.
Also has a Windows 7 Pro Refurb PC Citizenship sticker.
The sticker looks genuine.
Has no license key.
Maybe one of the key-extraction utilities, next time you _do_ manage to
get it booted in 7 (or XP), might produce something valid? (Belarc
Advisor I think extracts keys as well as lots of other useful stuff -
certainly does in XP. I don't know if the keys it extracts - or any of
the other utilities that do - are valid though.)
Post by mike
Reading the google suggests that the keys are supplied
separately and if you lose it, you're outaluck.
If there's a legal workaround for that, I'd like to hear it.
Somebody has paid for the license, I just want to put it back on.
Though they may have kept the "paperwork" (or electronic equivalent) and
the licence wasn't included in the $13 you paid for the machine. (You
obviously have a better quality set of junk shops round you than I do!)
Was a thrift store for $7. I was gonna build the missing internal hard
drive adapter,
but after looking at how much stuff was blocking access to the spot welder,
I opted to spend $6 for a plug and play drive mount + fan on ebay.
I've since invested another $2 in a 160GB WD 10KRPM VelociRaptor drive.
Put win10 on it and it's pretty quick.
Will be interesting to see how long MS lets us use unactivated win10.

Now that it's working fine, it's almost ready to go on the pile of
computers I'll probably never use. At least it kept me entertained for
5 days.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Though if it was an OEM licence, it's tied to the machine anyway. (And
if it was upgraded, it's probably even more complicated.) Paul or VLH
(or anyone), can you clarify the situation?
Post by mike
I don't have the refurbisher version
or a refurbisher key. Not worth wasting a real key on this
system.
After reading about the guy doin' jail time for offering
copies of the free MS windows restore CD's to his refurb
customers, I'd like to avoid his
plight.
What, the one that you (including he and the customers) can make on the
machine itself? That seems a bit harsh to put it mildly!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2018/02/15/eric-lundgren-e-waste-recycling-innovator-faces-prison-for-trying-to-extend-lifespan-of-pcs/?noredirect=on

is one account of the ordeal, but there are many others. watch wordwrap.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by mike
Selling used computers seems to be mired in legal hassle
these days.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-05-06 06:14:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
[]
Post by mike
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by mike
I don't have the refurbisher version
or a refurbisher key. Not worth wasting a real key on this
system.
After reading about the guy doin' jail time for offering
copies of the free MS windows restore CD's to his refurb
customers, I'd like to avoid his
plight.
What, the one that you (including he and the customers) can make on the
machine itself? That seems a bit harsh to put it mildly!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2018/02/15/eric-lundgr
en-e-waste-recycling-innovator-faces-prison-for-trying-to-extend-lifespa
n-of-pcs/?noredirect=on
is one account of the ordeal, but there are many others. watch wordwrap.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by mike
Selling used computers seems to be mired in legal hassle
these days.
Thanks for the link to the article. All should read!

I'd assumed he was just giving the discs away with computers he was
selling, with existing valid licences, but (a) it seems he made 28000 of
them (I think intending to sell them to _other_ refurbishers), (b) he
was foolish enough to [have his Chinese duplicator] put Microsoft and
Dell logos on them. But apart from the logos (which he's admitted to),
I'm _still_ not sure what he's done wrong, and more worryingly, it
sounds as if the judges (the article mentions no juries) didn't grasp it
properly. He apparently said he doesn't resell any computer without a
valid licence - any computer that comes in to his company without one is
not resold but stripped for parts. Seems like a Good Guy: obviously
there's more to him than the article tells, but it _does_ look like a
case that should at least get more coverage.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

To keep leaf vegetables clean and crisp, cook lightly, then plunge into iced
water (the vegetables, that is). - manual for a Russell Hobbs electric steamer
VanguardLH
2018-05-05 17:32:09 UTC
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Post by mike
I want to dump the PC that has the eSATA boot issues.
It's a pretty nice machine for general use. Win10
seems to have drivers.
It has a Windows XP Pro COA sticker.
Also has a Windows 7 Pro Refurb PC Citizenship sticker.
The sticker looks genuine.
Has no license key.
Reading the google suggests that the keys are supplied
separately and if you lose it, you're outaluck.
If there's a legal workaround for that, I'd like to hear it.
Somebody has paid for the license, I just want to put it back on.
I don't have the refurbisher version
or a refurbisher key. Not worth wasting a real key on this
system.
After reading about the guy doin' jail time for offering
copies of the free MS windows restore CD's to his refurb
customers, I'd like to avoid his
plight.
Selling used computers seems to be mired in legal hassle
these days.
https://www.ifixit.com/Wiki/Microsoft_Refurbisher_Program

I suspect a refurb license is handled like an OEM license. After saving
an image backup of the OS and app partition(s), you could see if
Microsoft offers you an upgrade at:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

I suspect you'll end up with a trial version.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/heres-how-you-can-still-get-a-free-windows-10-upgrade/
(dated about 4 months ago on January 16, 2018)
(the assistive technologies free upgrade ended on January 16, 2018)

You mentioned Windows 10 but did not explicitly say you want to move to
Windows 10. If your intent is to reinstall Windows 7 but a fresh copy,
use one of many tools (e.g., Magical Jelly Bean or Nirsoft Produkey) to
extract the product key from your current installation as it may not
match the one on the sticker. Save an image backup of the OS and app
partition(s). Then use the installation media (CD) to do a fresh
install of Windows 7.

------
UPDATE (This goes astray of this thread to connect to a prior thread)

So how is changing the OS, any OS, going to alter the firmware code in
your BIOS regarding which boot devices it will support? Changing the OS
will not change the BIOS code. If your BIOS won't boot from an eSATA
device then it won't happen no matter what OS you install. You already
know putting the external drive on an internal SATA port works for
booting from that drive.

To get around the old BIOS limitation (of not supporting boot from
eSATA), maybe a multi-boot manager would work. However, it would have
to be on an internal drive. The BIOS would boot from the internal drive
by loading its boot code in its MBR -- but that has been replaced with a
multi-boot manager (instead of having standard boot code), like what you
can do with the old GAG multi-boot manager. The multi-boot manager can
boot from another device but that depends on whether or not the
multi-boot manager can find eSATA devices.

Just drilled down in your other thread where you noted:

Win 7 SATA drive connected directly to either SATA0 or eSATA
motherboard socket WITHOUT using the external dock works fine.

So apparently your BIOS will boot from a proper eSATA device. When the
drive is attached to an internal SATA port, the drive is bootable. When
the drive is attached to the eSATA port from the mobo (no dock), the
drive is bootable. When the drive is in the dock that is connected to
the eSATA port, the drive won't boot. The dock is the problem. So the
"eSata boot issues" are with the dock, not the BIOS and not the OS.
Maybe the doc only allows access to sectors within partitions. The
bootloader code (465 bytes) in the MBR is in the first sector of the
drive and is not in any partition.

In the other thread, you noted a 7B error stop code. See:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/324103/advanced-troubleshooting-for-stop-error-code-0x0000007b-inaccessible-b
https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-fix-stop-0x0000007b-errors-2624109

You also indicated the OS was loading but then it crashed. Did the dock
come with a driver you were supposed to install?

From eSATA port on the computer to the dock, you are using a *shielded*
eSATA cable (2 meters max length) and not some generic SATA cable,
right? Tried a different eSATA cable? eSATA is close to SATA except
eSATA raised the voltage of the transmit signal and lowered the
threshold required for recognition of the receive signal (to accomodate
for the increased cable length). Is the dock designed to connect to an
eSATA port or for a cable to run through a hole in the case to a SATA
port on the mobo? Is it an eSATA connector (and not SATA) for the eSATA
port on the computer? How about for the dock?

eSATA allows only one drive per eSATA port connection. Is it
single-drive eSATA dock, or a 2-drive dock and you have more than 1
drive inserted? eSATA-only docks should have only 1 drive slot.
eSATA+USB docks can have 2 drive slots. We don't know what you are
using for the eSATA cable and what is the eSATA dock.

Where is power coming from for the eSATA drive? Power up the eSATA dock
for several seconds before powering up the computer. The docked drive
should be ready (connected, powered, spun up) *before* the BIOS attempts
to find it. Also, is AHCI enabled in the BIOS? Dell's documentation
sucks, so getting online info about the BIOS settings is a waste of
time. Look in the BIOS to see if AHCI is enabled. There could be more
than one setting for it.
mike
2018-05-06 03:56:26 UTC
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Post by VanguardLH
Post by mike
I want to dump the PC that has the eSATA boot issues.
It's a pretty nice machine for general use. Win10
seems to have drivers.
It has a Windows XP Pro COA sticker.
Also has a Windows 7 Pro Refurb PC Citizenship sticker.
The sticker looks genuine.
Has no license key.
Reading the google suggests that the keys are supplied
separately and if you lose it, you're outaluck.
If there's a legal workaround for that, I'd like to hear it.
Somebody has paid for the license, I just want to put it back on.
I don't have the refurbisher version
or a refurbisher key. Not worth wasting a real key on this
system.
After reading about the guy doin' jail time for offering
copies of the free MS windows restore CD's to his refurb
customers, I'd like to avoid his
plight.
Selling used computers seems to be mired in legal hassle
these days.
https://www.ifixit.com/Wiki/Microsoft_Refurbisher_Program
Thanks for the link, but reading it discovers:

Steve Barrett - 08/11/2016
Hi Steve, I would be happy to try and help you out as I am a Registered
Refurbisher as well as a Microsoft Authorised Refurbisher TPI Partner.
Windows 7 licences were marked EOL last October and are no longer
available through the program or from Microsoft even as OEM's as they
are transitioning everyone to Windows 10.
Post by VanguardLH
I suspect a refurb license is handled like an OEM license. After saving
an image backup of the OS and app partition(s), you could see if
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10
I suspect you'll end up with a trial version.
https://www.zdnet.com/article/heres-how-you-can-still-get-a-free-windows-10-upgrade/
(dated about 4 months ago on January 16, 2018)
(the assistive technologies free upgrade ended on January 16, 2018)
I did as late as March, but later attempts found the loophole closed.
I'd be interested to hear if anybody has used this recently.

A unactivated win10 has been working here for months, but there's no
guarantee that it will continue to work. I'm not gonna risk anything
mission-critical on that assumption.
Post by VanguardLH
You mentioned Windows 10 but did not explicitly say you want to move to
Windows 10. If your intent is to reinstall Windows 7 but a fresh copy,
use one of many tools (e.g., Magical Jelly Bean or Nirsoft Produkey) to
extract the product key from your current installation as it may not
match the one on the sticker. Save an image backup of the OS and app
partition(s). Then use the installation media (CD) to do a fresh
install of Windows 7.
Since the computer didn't come with the hard drive, getting any data
from it will be difficult.
Post by VanguardLH
------
UPDATE (This goes astray of this thread to connect to a prior thread)
I thought starting a new thread would let the old one die...no such luck...
Post by VanguardLH
So how is changing the OS, any OS, going to alter the firmware code in
your BIOS regarding which boot devices it will support? Changing the OS
will not change the BIOS code. If your BIOS won't boot from an eSATA
device then it won't happen no matter what OS you install. You already
know putting the external drive on an internal SATA port works for
booting from that drive.
From the top of this page, I'm dumping the computer, taking it to
a swapmeet, and maybe later the dump.
eSATA is not involved anywhere in that process.
The installed OS affects the value/price of the machine.
I probably won't be able to give it away with XP.
If it has a win7 refurbisher license that I can use, that will
increase its resale value.
Post by VanguardLH
To get around the old BIOS limitation (of not supporting boot from
eSATA), maybe a multi-boot manager would work. However, it would have
to be on an internal drive. The BIOS would boot from the internal drive
by loading its boot code in its MBR -- but that has been replaced with a
multi-boot manager (instead of having standard boot code), like what you
can do with the old GAG multi-boot manager. The multi-boot manager can
boot from another device but that depends on whether or not the
multi-boot manager can find eSATA devices.
Sure, that would work. BUT it does not meet my requirements
for this project...PERIOD. I MUST HAVE a computer that just works
in all modes, including win7.
Post by VanguardLH
Win 7 SATA drive connected directly to either SATA0 or eSATA
motherboard socket WITHOUT using the external dock works fine.
So apparently your BIOS will boot from a proper eSATA device. When the
drive is attached to an internal SATA port, the drive is bootable. When
the drive is attached to the eSATA port from the mobo (no dock), the
drive is bootable. When the drive is in the dock that is connected to
the eSATA port, the drive won't boot. The dock is the problem. So the
"eSata boot issues" are with the dock, not the BIOS and not the OS.
Maybe the doc only allows access to sectors within partitions. The
bootloader code (465 bytes) in the MBR is in the first sector of the
drive and is not in any partition.
Experiments suggest otherwise.
System works fine in all modes internal/external dock, ALL modes
with linux and Win10.
The dock and win7 appear to be incompatible on this machine.
Don't know why...don't care why...I want something that just works
including eSATA.
Post by VanguardLH
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/324103/advanced-troubleshooting-for-stop-error-code-0x0000007b-inaccessible-b
https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-fix-stop-0x0000007b-errors-2624109
You also indicated the OS was loading but then it crashed. Did the dock
come with a driver you were supposed to install?
no
Post by VanguardLH
From eSATA port on the computer to the dock, you are using a *shielded*
eSATA cable (2 meters max length) and not some generic SATA cable,
right? Tried a different eSATA cable? eSATA is close to SATA except
eSATA raised the voltage of the transmit signal and lowered the
threshold required for recognition of the receive signal (to accomodate
for the increased cable length). Is the dock designed to connect to an
eSATA port or for a cable to run through a hole in the case to a SATA
port on the mobo? Is it an eSATA connector (and not SATA) for the eSATA
port on the computer? How about for the dock?
The computer has a cable that plugs into the dedicated eSATA motherboard
SATA socket. It converts the plug format.
It came from dell with the computer when new.
The cable that came with the dock is 1 meter long with eSATA
plugs on each end.
I tried a different internal cable.
I tried a different external cable.
Remember that the eSATA dock works fine with win10 and linux.
Remember that I did data transfer test using the eSATA dock
connected through all the cables to the internal eSATA port
after booting win7 from a different internal drive on SATA0.

The hardware is capable of doing what it is supposed to do.
It can be verified with another OS.
Post by VanguardLH
eSATA allows only one drive per eSATA port connection. Is it
single-drive eSATA dock, or a 2-drive dock and you have more than 1
drive inserted? eSATA-only docks should have only 1 drive slot.
eSATA+USB docks can have 2 drive slots. We don't know what you are
using for the eSATA cable and what is the eSATA dock.
The dock has 2 slots. The google suggests that only slot1 should
be used for eSATA, but I've tried each one.
Remember that win10 and linux both work fine.
Post by VanguardLH
Where is power coming from for the eSATA drive? Power up the eSATA dock
for several seconds before powering up the computer. The docked drive
should be ready (connected, powered, spun up) *before* the BIOS attempts
yes
Post by VanguardLH
to find it. Also, is AHCI enabled in the BIOS?
yes
Dell's documentation
Post by VanguardLH
sucks, so getting online info about the BIOS settings is a waste of
time. Look in the BIOS to see if AHCI is enabled. There could be more
than one setting for it.
If win10 and linux work properly,
how can it be the cable or the attached port or the power supply or
the BIOS or anything but windows 7 pulling the rug out from under itself
during boot?
Boris
2018-05-05 17:33:54 UTC
Permalink
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Post by mike
I want to dump the PC that has the eSATA boot issues.
It's a pretty nice machine for general use. Win10
seems to have drivers.
It has a Windows XP Pro COA sticker.
Also has a Windows 7 Pro Refurb PC Citizenship sticker.
The sticker looks genuine.
Has no license key.
Reading the google suggests that the keys are supplied
separately and if you lose it, you're outaluck.
If there's a legal workaround for that, I'd like to hear it.
Somebody has paid for the license, I just want to put it back on.
I don't have the refurbisher version
or a refurbisher key. Not worth wasting a real key on this
system.
After reading about the guy doin' jail time for offering
copies of the free MS windows restore CD's to his refurb
customers, I'd like to avoid his
plight.
Selling used computers seems to be mired in legal hassle
these days.
This works for me everytime:

Run PowerShell as Administrator

Use command: wmic path softwareLicensingService get OA3xOriginalProductKey

The entire command line should look like this:

PS C:\WINDOWS\system32> wmic path softwareLicensingService get
OA3xOriginalProductKey
--------------------------------------------------
If you don't specify PowerShell as Administrator, the command line would
look like this:

PS C:\Users\mike> (Get-WmiObject -query 'select * from
SoftwareLicensingService').OA3xOriginalProductKey

HTH
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