Discussion:
Watch boot
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Freeple
2018-04-12 22:09:40 UTC
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Isn't there some application that will show what is being loaded by
windows. Even one that will show what is loading during and after the
desktop first appears.

I wold like to know why it takes so long for apps to run after the
desktop first appears.

A little while later, maybe two minutes, the apps respond quickly.

Does Nirsoft or someone have something that will watch what is going on ?
Paul
2018-04-12 23:39:54 UTC
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Post by Freeple
Isn't there some application that will show what is being loaded by
windows. Even one that will show what is loading during and after the
desktop first appears.
I wold like to know why it takes so long for apps to run after the
desktop first appears.
A little while later, maybe two minutes, the apps respond quickly.
Does Nirsoft or someone have something that will watch what is going on ?
Posting this to two groups was a bad idea, because
the answer is different for each group.

On WinXP, BootVis was demonstrated here on my SP3 setup,
to work, and show some information about the boot sequence.

On a later OS, XBootMgr/XPerf or WPA, might be used to
collect the same sort of information as BootVis. Except
BootVis was a consumer-friendly approach to doing it. Using
WPA is extreme overkill, as the default configuration takes
around 2 hours to run, and is completely pointless. XBootMgr
will only cost one reboot, by comparison.

Another way to collect a boot trace, is with ProcMon
from Sysinternals. And the neat thing is, you can even
have a trace running during system shutdown, and ProcMon
keeps files during the shutdown, as well as collecting
a separate trace during startup. The trace files could take a gigabyte
of hard drive space. After the reboot, when you run ProcMon,
that terminates the trace, so you should only start ProcMon,
when you think all the symptoms have been collected in the
trace. (Like, wait until you've successfully run an app
after the reboot, as proof the symptomatic behavior will
be contained in the boot trace.)

Procmon doesn't always work though.

Procmon does stuff line inject "procmon23.dll" as
a hidden file, into your OS folder. That's part of how
it can be doing stuff when it isn't running. That file
plays some part in it. A number of times, I've seen ProcMon
"do nothing" on a reboot, as if that injected DLL didn't
work out for some reason. Procmon does not remove the
file, either!

*******

The only strange behavior I've seen on WinXP, is with
regard to the Firewall, and .NET patches. After a .NET
patch installs, "ngen.exe" is supposed to run and
recompile .NET assemblies and put them in an assembly
cache. Sometimes, network related things won't start,
because they're waiting for ngen.exe to compile the
Firewall code.

This is an example of a fix for that. You locate the
highest version of .NET on the machine, and execute
the ngen.exe in there with "executequeueditems" as
the passed argument. That's supposed to get ngen.exe
to finish what it's supposed to be doing, so that on
the next boot, there should be no delay for the Firewall
code to load and run.

C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319\ngen.exe executequeueditems
ECHO Microsoft .NET Framework 4 Startup Fix for WinXP

Other than that, I would not have "high expectations"
about BootVis or any of the other methods, to tell you
a damn thing. My batting average on finding "culprits"
is poor. And part of that, is the lack of visibility
on what SVCHOSTs are doing. They're a detriment to debugging.

Paul
Freeple
2018-04-14 14:49:29 UTC
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I tried that ProcMon but it did not work.

All, I am asking in the Win XP area since I need one of these boot
monitors for WIn XP Pro.
tesla sTinker
2018-04-14 18:17:47 UTC
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why don't you use the machine to find your answer.
It will tell you what to use. And it has it somewhere it does.

Like on 6.1, you use your resource monitor in combination
with event viewer. And you can change what boots up and what you don't
want to boot up. or I tell you now, in 6.1, you can find out
when was the very first time the machine was ever powered up for the
very first time. I know, cause i got pissed when I found out, that i
paid new price at best buy for a machine, that was really 8 years old.

Most of what a machine does, is logged yes. Any machine.
check a xp newsgroup if cannot find what your looking for. Or a boot
newsgroup.
Post by Freeple
I tried that ProcMon but it did not work.
All, I am asking in the Win XP area since I need one of these boot
monitors for WIn XP Pro.
Mike S
2018-04-15 00:50:02 UTC
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Post by Freeple
I tried that ProcMon but it did not work.
All, I am asking in the Win XP area since I need one of these boot
monitors for WIn XP Pro.
I'd take a look at bootvis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BootVis

http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/bootvis.html
Big Al
2018-04-13 13:04:34 UTC
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Post by Freeple
Isn't there some application that will show what is being loaded by
windows.  Even one that will show what is loading during and after the
desktop first appears.
I wold like to know why it takes so long for apps to run after the
desktop first appears.
A little while later, maybe two minutes, the apps respond quickly.
Does Nirsoft or someone have something that will watch what is going on ?
Give this a try. I used it once. I had no problems but it was fun to
see what was going on.
http://www.greatis.com/bootracer/

You've got nothing to lose. :-)
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-04-13 14:37:16 UTC
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Post by Big Al
Post by Freeple
Isn't there some application that will show what is being loaded by
windows.  Even one that will show what is loading during and after the
desktop first appears.
I wold like to know why it takes so long for apps to run after the
desktop first appears.
A little while later, maybe two minutes, the apps respond quickly.
I think from 7 on, it at least gives you some access, before everything
that loads at boot has finished.
Post by Big Al
Post by Freeple
Does Nirsoft or someone have something that will watch what is going on ?
Give this a try. I used it once. I had no problems but it was fun to
see what was going on.
http://www.greatis.com/bootracer/
You've got nothing to lose. :-)
Thanks - an interesting prog.: I can't help thinking it must have a
catch, as it claims to do what has otherwise seemed to involve quite a
lot of complex work (it claims to analyse how long the various things
you have set to start with Windows, take; also to provide a countdown
indication during boot to when your desktop will be ready). Paul, have
you looked at it?

It says it doesn't work with alternative shells - needs Windows
Explorer. (This isn't clear - to me, anyway - whether it means it
doesn't work with shells that don't have Explorer, or just doesn't work
with alternative shells altogether; the English throughout it is a
little odd on places, though I couldn't write it in Russian so fair
enough!). I tried it, although I have Classic Shell; it gave a time
(75.842 seconds, which it says is slow), but didn't collect any other
data, and also I think it declared I was done starting when I don't
think I was (certainly other things continued to happen after that). But
I'll leave it for a while - maybe it needs more than one boot to collect
properly, or maybe it just doesn't work with Classic Shell.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

G B Shaw said: "Few people think more than two or three times a year; I have
made an international reputation for myself by thinking once or twice a week."
(quoted by "Dont Bother" [sic], 2015-8-24.)
JJ
2018-04-13 14:46:52 UTC
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Post by Big Al
Post by Freeple
Isn't there some application that will show what is being loaded by
windows.  Even one that will show what is loading during and after the
desktop first appears.
I wold like to know why it takes so long for apps to run after the
desktop first appears.
A little while later, maybe two minutes, the apps respond quickly.
Does Nirsoft or someone have something that will watch what is going on ?
Give this a try. I used it once. I had no problems but it was fun to
see what was going on.
http://www.greatis.com/bootracer/
You've got nothing to lose. :-)
Meh... 11MB+. Definitely a bloated software.
Mike S
2018-04-14 00:08:12 UTC
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Post by Freeple
Isn't there some application that will show what is being loaded by
windows.  Even one that will show what is loading during and after the
desktop first appears.
I wold like to know why it takes so long for apps to run after the
desktop first appears.
A little while later, maybe two minutes, the apps respond quickly.
Does Nirsoft or someone have something that will watch what is going on ?
Give this a try.  I used it once.   I had no problems but it was fun to
see what was going on.
http://www.greatis.com/bootracer/
You've got nothing to lose. :-)
I haven't tried this, found it on the wikipedia bootvis page, bootvis
worked great on an xp machine for me once; note this is a trial version,
from 2010, but it looks interesting. Might be worth a look.

WinBootInfo 1.02 (64-bit)
Find out exactly what's happening on your PC during the boot process
https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/download/system-desktop-tools/winbootinfo-102-64-bit-864/
Rene Lamontagne
2018-04-14 01:22:28 UTC
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Post by Mike S
Post by Freeple
Isn't there some application that will show what is being loaded by
windows.  Even one that will show what is loading during and after
the desktop first appears.
I wold like to know why it takes so long for apps to run after the
desktop first appears.
A little while later, maybe two minutes, the apps respond quickly.
Does Nirsoft or someone have something that will watch what is going on ?
Give this a try.  I used it once.   I had no problems but it was fun
to see what was going on.
http://www.greatis.com/bootracer/
You've got nothing to lose. :-)
I haven't tried this, found it on the wikipedia bootvis page, bootvis
worked great on an xp machine for me once; note this is a trial version,
from 2010, but it looks interesting. Might be worth a look.
WinBootInfo 1.02 (64-bit)
Find out exactly what's happening on your PC during the boot process
https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/download/system-desktop-tools/winbootinfo-102-64-bit-864/
Winbootinfo does not seem to be available.

Rene
Monty
2018-04-14 01:46:01 UTC
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Post by Rene Lamontagne
Post by Mike S
I haven't tried this, found it on the wikipedia bootvis page, bootvis
worked great on an xp machine for me once; note this is a trial version,
from 2010, but it looks interesting. Might be worth a look.
WinBootInfo 1.02 (64-bit)
Find out exactly what's happening on your PC during the boot process
https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/download/system-desktop-tools/winbootinfo-102-64-bit-864/
Winbootinfo does not seem to be available.
Maybe you could try again - I downloaded it just a few minutes ago.
Rene Lamontagne
2018-04-14 01:53:52 UTC
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Post by Monty
Post by Rene Lamontagne
Post by Mike S
I haven't tried this, found it on the wikipedia bootvis page, bootvis
worked great on an xp machine for me once; note this is a trial version,
from 2010, but it looks interesting. Might be worth a look.
WinBootInfo 1.02 (64-bit)
Find out exactly what's happening on your PC during the boot process
https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/download/system-desktop-tools/winbootinfo-102-64-bit-864/
Winbootinfo does not seem to be available.
Maybe you could try again - I downloaded it just a few minutes ago.
Okay, will try tomorrow.

Rene
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-04-14 13:14:40 UTC
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Post by Mike S
Post by Freeple
Isn't there some application that will show what is being loaded by
windows.  Even one that will show what is loading during and after
the desktop first appears.
I wold like to know why it takes so long for apps to run after the
desktop first appears.
A little while later, maybe two minutes, the apps respond quickly.
Does Nirsoft or someone have something that will watch what is going on ?
Give this a try.  I used it once.   I had no problems but it was fun
to see what was going on.
http://www.greatis.com/bootracer/
You've got nothing to lose. :-)
I haven't tried this, found it on the wikipedia bootvis page, bootvis
worked great on an xp machine for me once; note this is a trial
version, from 2010, but it looks interesting. Might be worth a look.
WinBootInfo 1.02 (64-bit)
Find out exactly what's happening on your PC during the boot process
https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/download/system-desktop-tools/winbootinfo-
102-64-bit-864/
Seems to be _only_ 64 bit.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Not an electronic sausage!"
Ian Jackson
2018-04-14 19:05:54 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Mike S
Post by Freeple
Isn't there some application that will show what is being loaded by
windows.  Even one that will show what is loading during and after
the desktop first appears.
I wold like to know why it takes so long for apps to run after the
desktop first appears.
A little while later, maybe two minutes, the apps respond quickly.
Does Nirsoft or someone have something that will watch what is going on ?
Give this a try.  I used it once.   I had no problems but it was
fun to see what was going on.
http://www.greatis.com/bootracer/
You've got nothing to lose. :-)
I haven't tried this, found it on the wikipedia bootvis page, bootvis
worked great on an xp machine for me once; note this is a trial
version, from 2010, but it looks interesting. Might be worth a look.
WinBootInfo 1.02 (64-bit)
Find out exactly what's happening on your PC during the boot process
https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/download/system-desktop-tools/winbootinfo-
102-64-bit-864/
Seems to be _only_ 64 bit.
Try
<https://www.techworld.com/download/system-desktop-tools/winbootinfo-102-
32-bit-634/#downloadLinks>
http://bit.ly/2H0iomF
but my AV (ESET) blocks the download - and I haven't tried to persuade
if to allow it.
--
Ian
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-04-14 21:22:30 UTC
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Post by Ian Jackson
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Mike S
Post by Freeple
Isn't there some application that will show what is being loaded
by windows.  Even one that will show what is loading during and
after the desktop first appears.
I wold like to know why it takes so long for apps to run after the
desktop first appears.
A little while later, maybe two minutes, the apps respond quickly.
Does Nirsoft or someone have something that will watch what is going on ?
Give this a try.  I used it once.   I had no problems but it was
fun to see what was going on.
http://www.greatis.com/bootracer/
You've got nothing to lose. :-)
I haven't tried this, found it on the wikipedia bootvis page, bootvis
worked great on an xp machine for me once; note this is a trial
version, from 2010, but it looks interesting. Might be worth a look.
WinBootInfo 1.02 (64-bit)
Find out exactly what's happening on your PC during the boot process
https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/download/system-desktop-tools/winbootinfo-
102-64-bit-864/
Seems to be _only_ 64 bit.
Try
<https://www.techworld.com/download/system-desktop-tools/winbootinfo-102-
32-bit-634/#downloadLinks>
http://bit.ly/2H0iomF
but my AV (ESET) blocks the download - and I haven't tried to persuade
if to allow it.
Thanks.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If you bate your breath do you catch a lung fish? (Glynn Greenwood 1996-8-23.)
Shadow
2018-04-15 00:40:30 UTC
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On Sat, 14 Apr 2018 14:14:40 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Mike S
Post by Freeple
Isn't there some application that will show what is being loaded by
windows.  Even one that will show what is loading during and after
the desktop first appears.
I wold like to know why it takes so long for apps to run after the
desktop first appears.
A little while later, maybe two minutes, the apps respond quickly.
Does Nirsoft or someone have something that will watch what is going on ?
Give this a try.  I used it once.   I had no problems but it was fun
to see what was going on.
http://www.greatis.com/bootracer/
You've got nothing to lose. :-)
I haven't tried this, found it on the wikipedia bootvis page, bootvis
worked great on an xp machine for me once; note this is a trial
version, from 2010, but it looks interesting. Might be worth a look.
WinBootInfo 1.02 (64-bit)
Find out exactly what's happening on your PC during the boot process
https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/download/system-desktop-tools/winbootinfo-
102-64-bit-864/
Seems to be _only_ 64 bit.
Softpedia has it

http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/System-Info/WinBootInfo.shtml

It's a trial, not sure how many (if any) features are
disabled.
Never tried it.

The OP could install CodeStuff Starter. It lists all the
startups, and you can disable the obviously unnecessary ones by simply
unmarking them. That should speed the boot process.

http://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/System-Tweak/Starter.shtml

Then time the ones you disabled with Apptimer.

https://www.passmark.com/products/apptimer.htm

//PassMark AppTimer V1.0 build 1010

Overview
========
AppTimer will run an executable a number of times and time
how long it takes for the application to reach a state where
user input is being accepted before exiting the application.

After each run of the application AppTimer will attempt to
close the application in an automated fashion.

It's main use is in benchmarking an application's startup time.//

PS - Tested under XP only.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
Freeple
2018-04-17 21:37:29 UTC
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BootVis does not work with my Win XP pro.


I think my rev is later than the one stated as working with the BootVis
I downloaded.
Paul
2018-04-18 02:06:41 UTC
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Post by Freeple
BootVis does not work with my Win XP pro.
I think my rev is later than the one stated as working with the BootVis
I downloaded.
I was worried about this initially too, but when
I tried BootVis on my WinXP SP3 system (installed
from disc as SP3), BootVis worked, and I was quite
impressed with the results.

Microsoft has made many over-the-top whizzy alternatives
since then, but those tools were only intended to
further the resume of the guy who wrote them. BootVis
was at least a little focused on an actual question
people might have.

BootVis is probably using ETW events like Process Monitor
from Sysinternals would. Does Process Monitor at least
create a trace when you run it ? As that would prove your
ETW was working.

And Process Monitor, the mechanism used, shows us at least
one failure mechanism. Process Monitor, if it's asked to
do a boto trace, places a procmon23.dll type file, with
an attribute of "hidden", in the system folder. And for
some reason, that method isn't entirely reliable. It's
almost like the file isn't getting loaded at boot time
or something. BootVis must have a mechanism of its own -
and the number of mechanisms available (to start at
trace at T=0) is limited. If you want a trace to start
really early, hooking a Start folder wouldn't be sufficient.
Maybe Googling on BootVis and checking what mechanism
is uses at T=0, would explain why it doesn't work.

I haven't been able to figure out why the ProcMon23 thing
doesn't work. No idea. And turning on boot logging here,
has never shown any useful information about issues like that.

Paul
Freeple
2018-04-18 14:31:19 UTC
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Will try ProcMon later today but from the help:

Note: network events, which are based on ETW (Event Tracing for
Windows), are not available in boot logs.


Mine is: Procmon.exe 2,510,526 2014-03-06 23:53 v3.10

You say ProcMon23.exe. Where do I get that ?
Paul
2018-04-18 15:41:39 UTC
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Post by Freeple
Note: network events, which are based on ETW (Event Tracing for
Windows), are not available in boot logs.
Mine is: Procmon.exe 2,510,526 2014-03-06 23:53 v3.10
You say ProcMon23.exe. Where do I get that ?
That's a DLL that procmon.exe leaves behind in the system
folder. And it only happens in ProcMon if you select boot logging.

Paul

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