Discussion:
Toshiba W-7 went dark
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HB
2018-03-10 07:15:13 UTC
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When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine, was
shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black screen
with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is
supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a screen
to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with 6
tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe
Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know how
to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7?

Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new. I
hate to recycle it.

I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it was
almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-03-10 09:21:53 UTC
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Post by HB
When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine, was
shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black screen
with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is
supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a screen
to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with 6
tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe
Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know how
to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7?
Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new. I
hate to recycle it.
I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it was
almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter.
Safe Mode is part of Windows; the computer needs to be working even to
run that. (I. e. it's _not_ part of the computer.) Sounds to me as if
some part of the computer itself is not working: I'd have guessed the
hard drive, but the message suggests it might be the memory.

As an outside thing to try, but as it's easy to do: try physically
removing the battery, then seeing if it will boot; the non-charging
suggests the battery may have died; if it has, it _might_ have done so
in such a way that it's loading things excessively. Unlikely, but as I
say easy to try. (If system shows no sign of life at all with the
battery out, then the battery is OK, but the external power supply may
have died - does it have a light on it you can check? [Or have you a
voltmeter?] - or something in between: the power in socket, or its
solder connections, is a common culprit.)
If that proves not to make any difference, then in view of the message
about the memory, I'd _try_ removing and reseating that, in case it's
just not making proper contact: if still no, remove, clean its contacts,
and reseat. If still no good and there are more than one module, try
booting with just one then just the other.
Failing that, perhaps the same with the hard drive - I've had them just
slide out of contact.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Does my Bradshaw look big in this?
HB
2018-03-11 03:11:50 UTC
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Post by HB
When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine, was
shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black screen
with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is
supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a screen
to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with 6
tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe
Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know how
to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7?
Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new. I
hate to recycle it.
I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it was
almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter.
Safe Mode is part of Windows; the computer needs to be working even to run
that. (I. e. it's _not_ part of the computer.) Sounds to me as if some
part of the computer itself is not working: I'd have guessed the hard
drive, but the message suggests it might be the memory.
It did a memory check and found it was OK.
As an outside thing to try, but as it's easy to do: try physically
removing the battery, then seeing if it will boot; the non-charging
suggests the battery may have died; if it has, it _might_ have done so in
such a way that it's loading things excessively. Unlikely, but as I say
easy to try. (If system shows no sign of life at all with the battery out,
then the battery is OK, but the external power supply may have died - does
it have a light on it you can check? [Or have you a voltmeter?] - or
something in between: the power in socket, or its solder connections, is a
common culprit.)
If that proves not to make any difference, then in view of the message
about the memory, I'd _try_ removing and reseating that, in case it's just
not making proper contact: if still no, remove, clean its contacts, and
reseat. If still no good and there are more than one module, try booting
with just one then just the other.
Will try this tonight. It's worth a try. Thanks.
Failing that, perhaps the same with the hard drive - I've had them just
slide out of contact.
--
Does my Bradshaw look big in this?
VanguardLH
2018-03-10 16:47:36 UTC
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Post by HB
When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine, was
shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black screen
with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is
supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a screen
to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with 6
tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe
Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know how
to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7?
Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new. I
hate to recycle it.
I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it was
almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter.
Some laptops won't run without a main battery installed. However, if
the main battery is dead, the laptop may not come up even when the
laptop's power adapter is plugged into A/C power. I'm not sure how the
circuitry is designed but I have seen some where the battery was used as
a capacitor in the power logic. If voltage regulation relies on a
working main battery, try removing it. How old is the battery? Sounds
like it is too old and you need to replace it.

F8 brings up the boot menu, not necessarily Windows safe mode. Once in
the startup menu, you decide how to continue booting. Safe mode is just
one of the boot options. F8 should bring up the boot menu which look
like this:

Loading Image...
(from https://neosmart.net/wiki/f8-key/)

However, that boot menu is presented by the kernel loader of Windows.
When you see the Advanced Options boot menu, you're already in Windows.
If Windows is corrupted, you might not get the F8 boot menu.

Toshiba is a brand name, not a model number. You never identified your
laptop. "LP" (laptop) doesn't identify WHAT you have. It's possible
Toshiba fucked up the F8 standard of getting into the Windows boot menu
and replaced F8's action to perform something else. Don't know because
you never identified the model for anyone else to go look in the manual
for that model.
HB
2018-03-11 03:42:44 UTC
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Post by VanguardLH
Post by HB
When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine, was
shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black screen
with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is
supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a screen
to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with 6
tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe
Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know how
to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7?
Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new. I
hate to recycle it.
I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it was
almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter.
Some laptops won't run without a main battery installed. However, if
the main battery is dead, the laptop may not come up even when the
laptop's power adapter is plugged into A/C power. I'm not sure how the
circuitry is designed but I have seen some where the battery was used as
a capacitor in the power logic. If voltage regulation relies on a
working main battery, try removing it. How old is the battery? Sounds
like it is too old and you need to replace it.
It's the original battery. Was in the LT when relative gave it to me. BTW,
all it says on the Toshiba is Satalite. It's 64-bit.
Post by VanguardLH
F8 brings up the boot menu, not necessarily Windows safe mode. Once in
the startup menu, you decide how to continue booting. Safe mode is just
one of the boot options. F8 should bring up the boot menu which look
https://neosmart.net/wiki/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2013/09/Windows-XP-Advanced-Boot-Options.png
(from https://neosmart.net/wiki/f8-key/)
That's what I'm familiar with. Never saw that window yesterday. I finally
got a screen asking to insert the original CD. None exists so I guess I'm
out of options.
Post by VanguardLH
However, that boot menu is presented by the kernel loader of Windows.
When you see the Advanced Options boot menu, you're already in Windows.
If Windows is corrupted, you might not get the F8 boot menu.
Toshiba is a brand name, not a model number. You never identified your
laptop. "LP" (laptop) doesn't identify WHAT you have. It's possible
Toshiba fucked up the F8 standard of getting into the Windows boot menu
and replaced F8's action to perform something else. Don't know because
you never identified the model for anyone else to go look in the manual
for that model.
Sorry, didn't think to add that. It's a Satellite.

The better half just said to remove the HD, give it a few good whacks with
the sledge hammer and dump them in the electronic recycle bin at the
dumpsters. I often take her advice. I appreciate everyone's time trying to
help.
VanguardLH
2018-03-11 05:00:43 UTC
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Post by HB
It's the original battery. Was in the LT when relative gave it to me. BTW,
all it says on the Toshiba is Satalite. It's 64-bit.
Doesn't answer the question "How old is the battery?".
Post by HB
Post by VanguardLH
Toshiba is a brand name, not a model number. You never identified your
laptop. "LP" (laptop) doesn't identify WHAT you have. It's possible
Toshiba fucked up the F8 standard of getting into the Windows boot menu
and replaced F8's action to perform something else. Don't know because
you never identified the model for anyone else to go look in the manual
for that model.
Sorry, didn't think to add that. It's a Satellite.
Satellite is a model family name. There are many models under that
family. Searching on "toshiba satellite battery" shows there are more
than one model for batteries that fit various Satellite models.

https://support.toshiba.com/sscontent?contentId=4007069
In that example, the part number is the model number.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0e5d2edfd0dcda35d538c2abb818da2d-c
In that example, the model number is overtly identified.

Loading Image...
In that example, the model number is right after "Satellite".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=url44LeZvgo
That's a video on where to look for the model family name and model
number.

You can also go to Toshiba's support page and enter in either the model
number or serial number, whichever is legible, to find out what you
have. I doubt a legitimate label from Toshiba on their laptop would
only say "Toshiba" and "Satellite". You need to look at the underside
label. If the underside label on the laptop has been obliterated to
become illegible that you cannot see or decipher a model or part number,
there should be a model number printed on the main battery that you can
use to search for a replacement battery. Unlike the label on the
underside of the laptop, the label on the battery gets no wear.

Batteries don't last forever even when properly stored. They're made of
chemicals that deteriorate. Is that old laptop not worth the $20 (*)
for a replacement battery?

(*) Per pricing at Walmart but only for some models of battery packs.
Post by HB
The better half just said to remove the HD, give it a few good whacks with
the sledge hammer and dump them in the electronic recycle bin at the
dumpsters. I often take her advice. I appreciate everyone's time trying to
help.
Some locales do not allow dumping electronics into their waste
facilities due to the lead in the solder. The unit may not be
recyclable if you smash it to pieces. Your locale may require you drop
it off at a hazardous waste recycle center, so don't smash it up. Or
drop it off at the Goodwill. Someone else might want it, wipe the
drive, and start with a fresh install of the OS. They might figure
getting a new battery makes for a cheap laptop.
HB
2018-03-11 10:11:08 UTC
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Post by VanguardLH
Post by HB
It's the original battery. Was in the LT when relative gave it to me.
BTW,
all it says on the Toshiba is Satalite. It's 64-bit.
Doesn't answer the question "How old is the battery?".
Post by HB
Post by VanguardLH
Toshiba is a brand name, not a model number. You never identified your
laptop. "LP" (laptop) doesn't identify WHAT you have. It's possible
Toshiba fucked up the F8 standard of getting into the Windows boot menu
and replaced F8's action to perform something else. Don't know because
you never identified the model for anyone else to go look in the manual
for that model.
Sorry, didn't think to add that. It's a Satellite.
Satellite is a model family name. There are many models under that
family. Searching on "toshiba satellite battery" shows there are more
than one model for batteries that fit various Satellite models.
https://support.toshiba.com/sscontent?contentId=4007069
In that example, the part number is the model number.
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0e5d2edfd0dcda35d538c2abb818da2d-c
In that example, the model number is overtly identified.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_Toshiba_C55_A_1D5_Typenschild_d38b165e44.jpg
In that example, the model number is right after "Satellite".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=url44LeZvgo
That's a video on where to look for the model family name and model
number.
You can also go to Toshiba's support page and enter in either the model
number or serial number, whichever is legible, to find out what you
have. I doubt a legitimate label from Toshiba on their laptop would
only say "Toshiba" and "Satellite". You need to look at the underside
label. If the underside label on the laptop has been obliterated to
become illegible that you cannot see or decipher a model or part number,
there should be a model number printed on the main battery that you can
use to search for a replacement battery. Unlike the label on the
underside of the laptop, the label on the battery gets no wear.
Batteries don't last forever even when properly stored. They're made of
chemicals that deteriorate. Is that old laptop not worth the $20 (*)
for a replacement battery?
(*) Per pricing at Walmart but only for some models of battery packs.
Post by HB
The better half just said to remove the HD, give it a few good whacks with
the sledge hammer and dump them in the electronic recycle bin at the
dumpsters. I often take her advice. I appreciate everyone's time trying to
help.
Some locales do not allow dumping electronics into their waste
facilities due to the lead in the solder. The unit may not be
recyclable if you smash it to pieces. Your locale may require you drop
it off at a hazardous waste recycle center, so don't smash it up. Or
drop it off at the Goodwill. Someone else might want it, wipe the
drive, and start with a fresh install of the OS. They might figure
getting a new battery makes for a cheap laptop.
On the back it just says Satellite followed by numbers. I don't know which
numbers would be relevant. This is the 1st number. C655D (or 0) S5063 system
unit.

What makes you think it's the battery since it worked fine without it as
long as it was plugged in? I had this same "going blank" with the blinking
"-" in the upper left hand corner before and they were desktops. I don't
remember the exact figures anymore but to fix them, according to the shops
where I lived at the time, wasn't worth what it would cost. An XP and a
Vista both went the same way.

It wasn't dead when plugged in as info came up when I tapped F2 or F8 but
not safe mode. Nothing that showed was familiar to me. A repair tech would
know what the info meant but it was Chinese to me. So it didn't need a
battery to run. I hate to toss it because it's like new. No one liked it
because it was slow. I was hoping to do a system recovery but couldn't get
into safe mode. I don't know any other way to do a system restore or
recovery.
Java Jive
2018-03-11 12:55:11 UTC
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On 11/03/2018 10:11, HB wrote:
(much snipped for brevity)

I think either I or Vanguard must be mistaken. He seems to be implying
that you were about to crunch the entire laptop with a sledge hammer,
whereas I think your other half meant just the hard drive, assuming it
was dead, did she not? This is a standard way of preventing personal
data being retrieved from binned HDs. Personally, I use a lump hammer
and a cold chisel on a concrete floor or step.

But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ...
Post by HB
On the back it just says Satellite followed by numbers. I don't know which
numbers would be relevant. This is the 1st number. C655D (or 0) S5063 system
unit.
I would suggest going to Toshiba's site and comparing what you have with
pictures of other models and their given designations one of which will
probably be close to the above. When dealing with problems or buying
spares, it is *nearly always important* to know exactly what it is that
you have.
Post by HB
What makes you think it's the battery since it worked fine without it as
long as it was plugged in? I had this same "going blank" with the blinking
"-" in the upper left hand corner before and they were desktops. I don't
remember the exact figures anymore but to fix them, according to the shops
where I lived at the time, wasn't worth what it would cost. An XP and a
Vista both went the same way.
Shops may be right in that it may not be commercially viable for them to
make certain types of repairs, or for you to pay them to do so, but
probably they also hope that they can persuade you to buy a replacement
from their stock, while some repairs, a new battery is a good example,
you can do yourself economically.
Post by HB
It wasn't dead when plugged in as info came up when I tapped F2 or F8 but
not safe mode. Nothing that showed was familiar to me. A repair tech would
know what the info meant but it was Chinese to me. So it didn't need a
battery to run. I hate to toss it because it's like new. No one liked it
because it was slow. I was hoping to do a system recovery but couldn't get
into safe mode. I don't know any other way to do a system restore or
recovery.
Most PCs can do some primitive diagnostics from the BIOS. The BIOS is
usually entered by pressing or holding down a particular key at a
particular stage in the boot process - favourites are <Del>, and
either <F10> or one of the other function keys across the top of the
keyboard. Again, going on to Toshiba's site and identifying the model
number may help you find out which key is the magic one. Some laptops,
such as Dells, can even perform full diagnostic tests by pressing a
different magic key, IIRC <F11>, but my memory for such intermittently
used information is getting a little dodgy these days, and anyway you
have a Toshiba, not a Dell, so it's likely to be a different key, if
full diagnostics are available at all.

You may find this page on my site, useful - although when written I
mostly had desktops in mind, since writing it I've repaired some laptops
as well, and while the details may be different, the principles are
exactly the same:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/PCHardware/HardwareFaults.html

In particular, either ...

If the laptop can boot from a USB stick, then download an Ubuntu or
other Linux distro - make sure you get a suitable one, 32-bit or
64-bit as appropriate - install it on a 2GB or larger USB stick,
depending on the size of the download, and see what messages Linux
generates as it tries to boot the PC. This may give you some useful
pointers to a hardware fault. If the PC boots from the stick, then you
should see your hard disk partition(s) as clickable icons down the left
hand side menu (in Ubuntu, other distros may be different, for example
the icons may be on the desktop). Try this and come back to us with a
description of what happens, particularly whether the PC boots at all,
whether Linux lets see your HD at all, and even the contents of it.

Or ...

If you can mount the HD in a desktop, do that and diagnose it from
there. If, as is likely with an old laptop, you have an IDE drive, you
would need a 2.5"-to-3.5" HD connector/convertor and attach the other
side of that to a spare IDE connector and power cable, whereas a SATA
drive can be attached directly to a standard SATA cable, but you may
need a convertor for the power cable - it all depends on the
particular combination of laptop HD and desktop motherboard and power
supply cables. Try this and do a chkdsk on the laptop's HD - you will
probably have to go into Disk Manager and give the laptop HD a drive
letter first.

Either way, you should be able to find out if the HD can be retrieved by
repartitioning and reinstalling, and the first should also suggest
whether and how much of the rest of the PC is functioning correctly.
HB
2018-03-12 21:26:38 UTC
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Post by Java Jive
(much snipped for brevity)
I think either I or Vanguard must be mistaken. He seems to be implying
that you were about to crunch the entire laptop with a sledge hammer,
whereas I think your other half meant just the hard drive, assuming it was
dead, did she not? This is a standard way of preventing personal data
being retrieved from binned HDs. Personally, I use a lump hammer and a
cold chisel on a concrete floor or step.
Yes, that's what she meant. Destroy the HD.
Post by Java Jive
But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ...
It's not dead as it brought up technical screens when tapping F8 or F2. It
ran fine with the battery not charged and plugged in.
Post by Java Jive
Post by HB
On the back it just says Satellite followed by numbers. I don't know which
numbers would be relevant. This is the 1st number. C655D (or 0) S5063 system
unit.
I would suggest going to Toshiba's site and comparing what you have with
pictures of other models and their given designations one of which will
probably be close to the above. When dealing with problems or buying
spares, it is *nearly always important* to know exactly what it is that
you have.
This was given to us by a realtive. She said it was too slow and wanted a
better faster newer laptop.
Post by Java Jive
Post by HB
What makes you think it's the battery since it worked fine without it as
long as it was plugged in? I had this same "going blank" with the blinking
"-" in the upper left hand corner before and they were desktops. I don't
remember the exact figures anymore but to fix them, according to the shops
where I lived at the time, wasn't worth what it would cost. An XP and a
Vista both went the same way.
Shops may be right in that it may not be commercially viable for them to
make certain types of repairs, or for you to pay them to do so, but
probably they also hope that they can persuade you to buy a replacement
from their stock, while some repairs, a new battery is a good example, you
can do yourself economically.
This is true. They knew I would not buy from a small shop. I bought all our
past computers from CompUSA before they went under. One from Best Buy and
one from WalMart. I could usually get rid of problems like this by accessing
safe mode and doing as System Recovery or Restore. But nothing led to safe
mode.
Post by Java Jive
Post by HB
It wasn't dead when plugged in as info came up when I tapped F2 or F8 but
not safe mode. Nothing that showed was familiar to me. A repair tech would
know what the info meant but it was Chinese to me. So it didn't need a
battery to run. I hate to toss it because it's like new. No one liked it
because it was slow. I was hoping to do a system recovery but couldn't get
into safe mode. I don't know any other way to do a system restore or
recovery.
Most PCs can do some primitive diagnostics from the BIOS. The BIOS is
usually entered by pressing or holding down a particular key at a
particular stage in the boot process - favourites are <Del>, and either
<F10> or one of the other function keys across the top of the keyboard.
Again, going on to Toshiba's site and identifying the model number may
help you find out which key is the magic one. Some laptops, such as
Dells, can even perform full diagnostic tests by pressing a different
magic key, IIRC <F11>, but my memory for such intermittently used
information is getting a little dodgy these days, and anyway you have a
Toshiba, not a Dell, so it's likely to be a different key, if full
diagnostics are available at all.
I'll do some Googling again and see if I find anything helpful. I'm sure a
tech would have found those screens that came up helpful. To me they may as
well have been in Chinese.
Post by Java Jive
You may find this page on my site, useful - although when written I
mostly had desktops in mind, since writing it I've repaired some laptops
as well, and while the details may be different, the principles are
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/PCHardware/HardwareFaults.html
In particular, either ...
If the laptop can boot from a USB stick, then download an Ubuntu or other
Linux distro - make sure you get a suitable one, 32-bit or 64-bit as
appropriate - install it on a 2GB or larger USB stick, depending on the
size of the download, and see what messages Linux generates as it tries to
boot the PC. This may give you some useful pointers to a hardware fault.
If the PC boots from the stick, then you should see your hard disk
partition(s) as clickable icons down the left hand side menu (in Ubuntu,
other distros may be different, for example the icons may be on the
desktop). Try this and come back to us with a description of what
happens, particularly whether the PC boots at all, whether Linux lets see
your HD at all, and even the contents of it.
OK.. will do.



. you can mount the HD in a desktop, do that and diagnose it from
Post by Java Jive
there. If, as is likely with an old laptop, you have an IDE drive, you
would need a 2.5"-to-3.5" HD connector/convertor and attach the other side
of that to a spare IDE connector and power cable, whereas a SATA drive can
be attached directly to a standard SATA cable, but you may need a
convertor for the power cable - it all depends on the particular
combination of laptop HD and desktop motherboard and power supply cables.
Try this and do a chkdsk on the laptop's HD - you will probably have to
go into Disk Manager and give the laptop HD a drive letter first.
I wouldn't know where to start and if I want to devote the time it took to
do it. I've had almost no experience with the inside hardware of
computers. The HD doesn't look like anything I've seen in a DT PC. Just
getting to the wires to get the DT PC to come forward is a major
production... seriously. BTW, the HD is a Seagate 250 GBs - the other info
is all in Chinese characters.
Post by Java Jive
Either way, you should be able to find out if the HD can be retrieved by
repartitioning and reinstalling, and the first should also suggest whether
and how much of the rest of the PC is functioning correctly.
Wolf K
2018-03-13 02:03:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HB
Post by Java Jive
(much snipped for brevity)
I think either I or Vanguard must be mistaken. He seems to be implying
that you were about to crunch the entire laptop with a sledge hammer,
whereas I think your other half meant just the hard drive, assuming it was
dead, did she not? This is a standard way of preventing personal data
being retrieved from binned HDs. Personally, I use a lump hammer and a
cold chisel on a concrete floor or step.
Yes, that's what she meant. Destroy the HD.
Post by Java Jive
But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ...
It's not dead as it brought up technical screens when tapping F8 or F2. It
ran fine with the battery not charged and plugged in.
f8 or f2 access BIOS, _not_ the HD. Can you copy (by hand, I guss) and
post the technical messages? That would be helpful.
--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"The next conference for the time travel design team will be held two
weeks ago."
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-03-13 05:50:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message <HjGpC.183532$***@fx40.iad>, Wolf K
<***@sympatico.ca> writes:
[]
Post by Wolf K
f8 or f2 access BIOS, _not_ the HD. Can you copy (by hand, I guss) and
post the technical messages? That would be helpful.
[]
The F8 menu - things like safe mode, safe mode with networking, last
good boot, etc. - _does_ come from the HD.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

_____
___ |[]|_n_n_I_c
|___||__|###|____)
O-O--O-O+++--O-O
HB
2018-03-13 06:11:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Wolf K
Post by HB
Post by Java Jive
But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ...
It's not dead as it brought up technical screens when tapping F8 or F2. It
ran fine with the battery not charged and plugged in.
f8 or f2 access BIOS, _not_ the HD. Can you copy (by hand, I guss) and
post the technical messages? That would be helpful.
It says "InsydeH20setup utility" at the top of the screen.

There are too many. 6 tabs on one screen. Text on each tab. None mention
Safe Mode or system recovery. Example. On the Avanced tab it says: Boot
Speed. Boot sound. USB Legacy Emulation. System Configuration.

These are images that I found of what I'm seeing for the most part. They're
the closest but not exactly the same.

https://www.google.com/search?q=InsydeH20setup+utility&client=firefox-b-1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj-ifiU0ejZAhUQjlkKHX6XA1MQ_AUIDCgD&biw=1408&bih=625

I'm going by what I found on the net. None of the F keys brings up the
screen I'm familiar with where Safe Mode is a choice. The online info says
to tap F8 as the PC comes on but all that gets me is a black screen and a
annoying beeping sound when a key is pressed.
Post by Wolf K
--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"The next conference for the time travel design team will be held two
weeks ago."
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-03-13 06:26:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message <p87q1q$8sa$***@dont-email.me>, HB <***@fake.com> writes:
[]
Post by HB
I'm going by what I found on the net. None of the F keys brings up the
screen I'm familiar with where Safe Mode is a choice. The online info says
to tap F8 as the PC comes on but all that gets me is a black screen and a
annoying beeping sound when a key is pressed.
[]
You will only get that screen if (a) the hard drive is working and (b)
none of the files that the system needs to load to get as far as that
screen have been corrupted.

The beeping just means you've filled the keyboard buffer.

_Does_ the poorly PC have a separate panel on the bottom that can be
removed to get at the hard drive?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

_____
___ |[]|_n_n_I_c
|___||__|###|____)
O-O--O-O+++--O-O
Zaidy036
2018-03-13 06:59:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by HB
I'm going by what I found on the net. None of the F keys brings up the
screen I'm familiar with where Safe Mode is a choice. The online info says
to tap F8 as the PC comes on but all that gets me is a black screen and a
annoying beeping sound when a key is pressed.
[]
You will only get that screen if (a) the hard drive is working and (b)
none of the files that the system needs to load to get as far as that
screen have been corrupted.
The beeping just means you've filled the keyboard buffer.
_Does_ the poorly PC have a separate panel on the bottom that can be
removed to get at the hard drive?
If you have a digital camera take pics of screens and post on another site.
--
Zaidy036
HB
2018-03-13 07:25:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by HB
I'm going by what I found on the net. None of the F keys brings up the
screen I'm familiar with where Safe Mode is a choice. The online info says
to tap F8 as the PC comes on but all that gets me is a black screen and a
annoying beeping sound when a key is pressed.
[]
You will only get that screen if (a) the hard drive is working and (b)
none of the files that the system needs to load to get as far as that
screen have been corrupted.
The beeping just means you've filled the keyboard buffer.
_Does_ the poorly PC have a separate panel on the bottom that can be
removed to get at the hard drive?
I already removed it and made sure it went back in OK.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
--
_____
___ |[]|_n_n_I_c
|___||__|###|____)
O-O--O-O+++--O-O
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-03-13 15:46:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Please read and answer all - I know I tend to be wordy (as do most here
who are trying to help), but most questions I answer here are simple
yes-no answers, and they'll help us all considerably to help you. There
are only about three questions - in fact I'll number them **thus**.
[]
Post by HB
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
_Does_ the poorly PC have a separate panel on the bottom that can be
removed to get at the hard drive?
I already removed it and made sure it went back in OK.
[]
OK, so that's eliminated one source of the problem. It wasn't _that_
likely, just it was easy to check. (Though I have had a machine where it
does slide out of contact occasionally!)

**Q1** Can you tell, by powering up and down with a finger on the drive
(or your ear close to it), whether it is actually spinning up? Not that
if you can't this proves that it isn't - some modern drives are very
quiet and vibration-free. But it's worth a try as it's easy to do. And
if it is, that still doesn't mean that it's working, just that it isn't
stuck and the motor runs.

[If you can be _sure_ that it _isn't_ spinning, you've _probably_ found
the problem: I _suppose_ it _could_ be that the motherboard isn't
telling it to spin or providing power to it, but that's rare.]

Since you can get it out easily enough, the next stage is to do so and
connect it to another computer (obviously you _have_ another computer as
you're talking to us!) and see if _that_ can see it - ideally direct
rather than via USB, as you'd be able to do more thorough tests, but via
USB is better than nothing. Direct would likely to be a desktop machine,
as few laptops have provision for more than one drive. (_Don't_ fit it
in place of the _only_ drive in another machine - that would likely
cause problems!)

**Q2** I _presume_, since it's 250G and someone said the BIOS suggests
it's a modern-ish laptop anyway, that it's a SATA drive (two short
connectors with L-shaped alignment guides, rather than one long two row
connector). **Q3** _Do_ you have a suitable desktop machine with
suitable extra ports to try it in? You might have to buy a SATA cable
(and if unlucky a power adapter cable too: for SATA, the power is on the
larger connector, and you _may_ only have the old four-pin connectors
spare). Or, if the desktop has a SATA DVD/CD drive, you could
temporarily borrow the connections from that.

I'll stop there for now. The next question _would_ be **Q4** when the
desktop machine has booted (or does it boot?), does it see an extra
drive, and **Q5** can you look at what's on it. But I'll leave that
until we have the answer to Q3, as if you don't have a SATA connection
to test it on (assuming it _is_ a SATA drive), we'll have to go the USB
route.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"There are a great many people in the country today who, through no fault of
their own, are sane." - Monty Python's Flying Circus
HB
2018-03-14 05:47:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Please read and answer all - I know I tend to be wordy (as do most here
who are trying to help), but most questions I answer here are simple
yes-no answers, and they'll help us all considerably to help you. There
are only about three questions - in fact I'll number them **thus**.
[]
Post by HB
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
_Does_ the poorly PC have a separate panel on the bottom that can be
removed to get at the hard drive?
I already removed it and made sure it went back in OK.
[]
OK, so that's eliminated one source of the problem. It wasn't _that_
likely, just it was easy to check. (Though I have had a machine where it
does slide out of contact occasionally!)
**Q1** Can you tell, by powering up and down with a finger on the drive
(or your ear close to it), whether it is actually spinning up? Not that if
you can't this proves that it isn't - some modern drives are very quiet
and vibration-free. But it's worth a try as it's easy to do. And if it is,
that still doesn't mean that it's working, just that it isn't stuck and
the motor runs.
I can hear it spin up an when the cooling fan starts. Both when not plugged
in so I know the battery is still good and taking a charge.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[If you can be _sure_ that it _isn't_ spinning, you've _probably_ found
the problem: I _suppose_ it _could_ be that the motherboard isn't telling
it to spin or providing power to it, but that's rare.]
Since you can get it out easily enough, the next stage is to do so and
connect it to another computer (obviously you _have_ another computer as
you're talking to us!) and see if _that_ can see it - ideally direct
rather than via USB, as you'd be able to do more thorough tests, but via
USB is better than nothing. Direct would likely to be a desktop machine,
as few laptops have provision for more than one drive. (_Don't_ fit it in
place of the _only_ drive in another machine - that would likely cause
problems!)
I don't know how to safely connect it to the desktop machine. The HDs are
very different sizes. And now with the W-10 forced updates, loss of OE6
because of them and my daughter complaining her favorite game is messed up
on the new HP laptop since the update, this W-7 is all that much more
valuable to me.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
**Q2** I _presume_, since it's 250G and someone said the BIOS suggests
it's a modern-ish laptop anyway, that it's a SATA drive (two short
connectors with L-shaped alignment guides, rather than one long two row
connector). **Q3** _Do_ you have a suitable desktop machine with suitable
extra ports to try it in? You might have to buy a SATA cable (and if
unlucky a power adapter cable too: for SATA, the power is on the larger
connector, and you _may_ only have the old four-pin connectors spare). Or,
if the desktop has a SATA DVD/CD drive, you could temporarily borrow the
connections from that.
There are two connecters to the HD in the Toshiba. I have no idea what I'm
doing when it comes to the hardware.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I'll stop there for now. The next question _would_ be **Q4** when the
desktop machine has booted (or does it boot?), does it see an extra drive,
and **Q5** can you look at what's on it. But I'll leave that until we have
the answer to Q3, as if you don't have a SATA connection to test it on
(assuming it _is_ a SATA drive), we'll have to go the USB route.
I have zero computer parts on hand. I wouldn't know what I would need to
connect it to the DT or even where to try to connect it. It's a HP Pavilion
P7-1003W.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
--
"There are a great many people in the country today who, through no fault of
their own, are sane." - Monty Python's Flying Circus
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-03-14 12:42:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message <p8ad1c$7t5$***@dont-email.me>, HB <***@fake.com> writes:
[]
Post by HB
I can hear it spin up an when the cooling fan starts. Both when not plugged
in so I know the battery is still good and taking a charge.
So the HD is spinning. That's a start. (Unfortunately, a lot of the ways
they can go wrong don't involve the motor.)
[]
Post by HB
I don't know how to safely connect it to the desktop machine. The HDs are
If you mean physically, that's not a problem: desktop machines tend to
use 3.5" drives, laptops 2.5" ones (the figure refers to the diameter of
the actual platters inside the drive); making smaller hardware is more
difficult, so the manufacturers continue to make both sizes - obviously
space is limited in a laptop, so they have the smaller ones. Much larger
_capacities_ (currently, say, 3T and above) tend to only be available in
the 3.5" (desktop) size. Functionally, both are the same, and a computer
doesn't know whether it's using a 2.5" or a 3.5" drive.

See lower down for how to connect to the desktop.
Post by HB
very different sizes. And now with the W-10 forced updates, loss of OE6
because of them and my daughter complaining her favorite game is messed up
on the new HP laptop since the update, this W-7 is all that much more
valuable to me.
Ah, daughter's favourite game: that's important!
[]
Post by HB
There are two connecters to the HD in the Toshiba. I have no idea what I'm
I presume that's - looking at the drive when removed - one with about 7
fingers (that's the data one), and one with about 15 (power), each with
an L-shaped plastic guide around them.
Post by HB
doing when it comes to the hardware.
Inside the desktop machine, does its own hard drive also have two small
connectors, or a wide ribbon cable with about 40 wires? Or, does its
CD/DVD drive? If both of those are connected with wide ribbon cables,
read no further, as we'll have to use the USB route (which isn't
difficult).

If the desktop machine's own hard drive or CD/DVD drive has the same two
connectors, we're getting somewhere. Follow the cables to see where they
come from. The larger one will come from the power supply (big box at
one end of the case, where the power lead goes in); the smaller one will
go to the motherboard (main large board in the computer). [You probably
know those, but I'm describing in case not, and for anyone else reading
this thread who might not.]

To connect the drive, taken from the laptop, to the desktop:

EITHER:
Power (the larger one): look around in the case: hopefully, there'll be
a spare power connector (coming from the power supply, obviously, though
may be piggy-backed on other devices) that will fit the power connector
on the laptop drive. If there isn't, but there's one of the old Molex
four-large-sockets-in-nylon type, you'll need an adaptor.

Data (the smaller one): look at where the data cable from the existing
hard drive and/or CD/DVD drive goes into the motherboard; there should
be similar connectors nearby. Most SATA-capable motherboards have lots
of them - at least six seems to be common. They often come in pairs, in
the same plastic moulding. You need to connect the drive to one of those
- you'd probably need a SATA cable, unless the assemblers have been
_very_ generous and left you a spare.

OR:
If the CD/DVD drive is SATA (two small connectors rather than a wide
ribbon one), just disconnect those from the CD/DVD drive, and connect
them to the laptop drive. (Do so with the computer turned off!)
Post by HB
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I'll stop there for now. The next question _would_ be **Q4** when the
desktop machine has booted (or does it boot?), does it see an extra drive,
and **Q5** can you look at what's on it. But I'll leave that until we have
the answer to Q3, as if you don't have a SATA connection to test it on
(assuming it _is_ a SATA drive), we'll have to go the USB route.
I have zero computer parts on hand. I wouldn't know what I would need to
connect it to the DT or even where to try to connect it. It's a HP Pavilion
P7-1003W.
[]
Well, as you'll see from above, you'd need a SATA cable and possibly a
power adapter cable, both of which should be cheap enough - or, if the
CD/DVD drive is SATA, which they mostly are these days, you won't need
_anything_.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

computers don't solve problems; they help humans solve problems - Colin Barker,
Computing 1999-2-18, p. 21
HB
2018-03-15 06:31:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by HB
I can hear it spin up an when the cooling fan starts. Both when not plugged
in so I know the battery is still good and taking a charge.
So the HD is spinning. That's a start. (Unfortunately, a lot of the ways
they can go wrong don't involve the motor.)
[]
Post by HB
I don't know how to safely connect it to the desktop machine. The HDs are
If you mean physically, that's not a problem: desktop machines tend to use
3.5" drives, laptops 2.5" ones (the figure refers to the diameter of the
actual platters inside the drive); making smaller hardware is more
difficult, so the manufacturers continue to make both sizes - obviously
space is limited in a laptop, so they have the smaller ones. Much larger
_capacities_ (currently, say, 3T and above) tend to only be available in
the 3.5" (desktop) size. Functionally, both are the same, and a computer
doesn't know whether it's using a 2.5" or a 3.5" drive.
See lower down for how to connect to the desktop.
Post by HB
very different sizes. And now with the W-10 forced updates, loss of OE6
because of them and my daughter complaining her favorite game is messed up
on the new HP laptop since the update, this W-7 is all that much more
valuable to me.
Ah, daughter's favourite game: that's important!
[]
Post by HB
There are two connecters to the HD in the Toshiba. I have no idea what I'm
I presume that's - looking at the drive when removed - one with about 7
fingers (that's the data one), and one with about 15 (power), each with an
L-shaped plastic guide around them.
Post by HB
doing when it comes to the hardware.
Inside the desktop machine, does its own hard drive also have two small
connectors, or a wide ribbon cable with about 40 wires? Or, does its
CD/DVD drive? If both of those are connected with wide ribbon cables, read
no further, as we'll have to use the USB route (which isn't difficult).
I don't know because I never opened it. The last HP DT had the wide ribbon
cable. Then let's use the USB route because I really don't want to start
messing around iside the DT box. I tried using a Rescue disc my son made a
few years ago. Nothing happened. I downloaded something from the net, a MS
repair disc and that didn't work either.

Ubantu was an 8 GB download I don't have unlimited download data with
Verizon. It didn't look like anything that would boot a PC in the LT's
condition. There would be no way to execute it.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
If the desktop machine's own hard drive or CD/DVD drive has the same two
connectors, we're getting somewhere. Follow the cables to see where they
come from. The larger one will come from the power supply (big box at one
end of the case, where the power lead goes in); the smaller one will go to
the motherboard (main large board in the computer). [You probably know
those, but I'm describing in case not, and for anyone else reading this
thread who might not.]
Power (the larger one): look around in the case: hopefully, there'll be a
spare power connector (coming from the power supply, obviously, though may
be piggy-backed on other devices) that will fit the power connector on the
laptop drive. If there isn't, but there's one of the old Molex
four-large-sockets-in-nylon type, you'll need an adaptor.
Data (the smaller one): look at where the data cable from the existing
hard drive and/or CD/DVD drive goes into the motherboard; there should be
similar connectors nearby. Most SATA-capable motherboards have lots of
them - at least six seems to be common. They often come in pairs, in the
same plastic moulding. You need to connect the drive to one of those -
you'd probably need a SATA cable, unless the assemblers have been _very_
generous and left you a spare.
If the CD/DVD drive is SATA (two small connectors rather than a wide
ribbon one), just disconnect those from the CD/DVD drive, and connect them
to the laptop drive. (Do so with the computer turned off!)
Post by HB
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I'll stop there for now. The next question _would_ be **Q4** when the
desktop machine has booted (or does it boot?), does it see an extra drive,
and **Q5** can you look at what's on it. But I'll leave that until we have
the answer to Q3, as if you don't have a SATA connection to test it on
(assuming it _is_ a SATA drive), we'll have to go the USB route.
I have zero computer parts on hand. I wouldn't know what I would need to
connect it to the DT or even where to try to connect it. It's a HP Pavilion
P7-1003W.
[]
Well, as you'll see from above, you'd need a SATA cable and possibly a
power adapter cable, both of which should be cheap enough - or, if the
CD/DVD drive is SATA, which they mostly are these days, you won't need
_anything_.
--
computers don't solve problems; they help humans solve problems - Colin Barker,
Computing 1999-2-18, p. 21
Paul
2018-03-15 07:27:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HB
Ubantu was an 8 GB download I don't have unlimited download data with
Verizon. It didn't look like anything that would boot a PC in the LT's
condition. There would be no way to execute it.
ubuntu-17.10-desktop-amd64.iso 1,501,102,080 bytes

You need a USB stick larger than that to hold it.

The distro called "UbuntuStudio" is larger than that,
because it contains all sorts of Audio Workstation applications.
I have a studio version here that is "2,752,020,480 bytes"
but you don't use that for working on busted laptops.

The above 1.5GB number is a rough idea of what
a typical Ubuntu download will cost you.

It's *not* an 8GB download.

Distros generally try to stay below the limits of a single layer DVD.

*******

The absolutely largest distro I've got here as an
ISO, is 4,641,318,912 bytes. It was made in the year
2007, and was an attempt by the FOSS community to impress
people with "how much free software there is". It's
like one of those 10,000 font "font collections" :-)
I would think it's getting close to the limits of
a single layer DVD and that's why they made it
that particular size.

The Gentoo folks made a 3GB one, whose main claim to fame
was the number of drivers on it. It had so many drivers,
it would take between 3 to 4 minutes to boot (it tries
all the drivers one at a time, turfing the ones not needed).
An exercise in futility.

So some of the latests "whales" were a kind of bloated
advertising. The "reasonable" choices can be between
CD size and 1.5GB.

If you don't own a DVD burner, use this.

https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=fatdog

Fatdog64-721.iso 2018-Jan-11 09:13:13 387MB application/octet-stream

That's like Puppy, but for more modern (64bit capable) machines.

But don't blame me if that doesn't have a nice
package manager and tool set. At least it fits on
a CD and would be suitable for a very quick "boot test".

Paul
Paul
2018-03-13 07:42:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HB
Post by Wolf K
f8 or f2 access BIOS, _not_ the HD. Can you copy (by hand, I guss) and
post the technical messages? That would be helpful.
It says "InsydeH20setup utility" at the top of the screen.
There are too many. 6 tabs on one screen. Text on each tab. None mention
Safe Mode or system recovery. Example. On the Avanced tab it says: Boot
Speed. Boot sound. USB Legacy Emulation. System Configuration.
These are images that I found of what I'm seeing for the most part. They're
the closest but not exactly the same.
https://www.google.com/search?q=InsydeH20setup+utility&client=firefox-b-1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj-ifiU0ejZAhUQjlkKHX6XA1MQ_AUIDCgD&biw=1408&bih=625
I'm going by what I found on the net. None of the F keys brings up the
screen I'm familiar with where Safe Mode is a choice. The online info says
to tap F8 as the PC comes on but all that gets me is a black screen and a
annoying beeping sound when a key is pressed.
InsydeH20 is a *BIOS* company.

Pressing F2 or F8 or F12 early after the power
comes on, caused you to drop into the BIOS.

After the flashing "_" appears in the upper left
hand corner of an otherwise black screen, is the
OS booting. At that point, some of the older OSes
would accept pressing of F8 to enter the
Safe Mode OS menu.

The timing of the key press is critical. On
a machine with a BIOS which happens to use F8, you
will end up in the BIOS if your timing is not
perfect. And if you're late during the OS boot
phase, the OS will (attempt) to boot in regular mode.

On the modern OSes, you can use BCDEdit from the
OS installer DVD or from the emergency boot CD,
use the Command Prompt window there, to set a BCD
option to cause the machine to stop at the
Safe Mode screen.

However, if the booting bits of your OS are
corrupted, it might never even get a chance
to consider your presses of F8, or your
entreaty via the BCD, to stop at the
Safe Mode screen.

*******

As an example:

1) Boot the computer using the Windows 7 SP1 installer DVD.
Select the troubleshooting options, rather than anything
related to installation. That might require accepting the
"language" screen when it comes up, but after that, there
should be a button for Troubleshooting. This gives a
Command Prompt window.

2) Look at Option 3 here.

https://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/69585-safe-mode.html

bcdedit # review the details
# sometimes a refusal to boot is
# caused by a blank entry for a volume

bcdedit /set {current} safeboot minimal # Add the entry to BCD

bcdedit # Verify it looks correct

3) Type "exit" in Command Prompt or close the window,
then allow the machine to boot to the hard drive.

I don't know why you're heading to Safe Mode, what you have
in mind, but that's an example of doing it.

To remove it later, you can repeat the above approach from
a Windows Administrator (elevated) Command Prompt window.

bcdedit # review the details
# Make sure the menu item is in "Current"

bcdedit /deletevalue {current} safeboot

Some of the BCD options can also be neutered by "/set"
to a benign value, and then you don't even need to
deletevalue to switch them off. BCD also has
options where it has Booleans, and True and False
are synonyms for Yes and No.

The nice thing about BCDEdit, is a hell of a lot of
nice examples have been written and documented since
Vista came out. And working with the BCD (from an
emergency boot CD or from an installer DVD), no longer
has to be "mysterious". The sevenforums site has
recipes. Not all the recipes are "most useful",
and the reason I selected the Option 3 from the
above one, is a lot of what we do here is "emergency"
edits, where the user can no longer use the regular
OS to edit stuff.

You can do offline edits (edit the BCD on other drives
in the computer), using the /store option.

bcdedit /store C:\boot\BCD /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True

When you do stuff like that, it's up to you to use
the "dir" command to actually verify the drive lettering,
since drives get different lettering in virtually every
environment you work in.

That particular command there, happens to be a favorite of
mine, because it adds a "WinXP style black boot menu" to
OSes like Windows 10 :-) Just ignoring the two OS boot
choices here, there *is* a row on the screen that says
to "press F8", so this menu just happens to give you
access to all the Safe Mode options. I want this window
for the "press F8" option, not because the OS boot
choices look pretty or something. This is how I get to
Safe Mode. The black screen sits there for 30 seconds,
giving plenty of time to make a single press of F8.

https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/22455-enable-disable-f8-advanced-boot-options-windows-10-a.html

bcdedit /store C:\boot\BCD /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True # booted from emergency CD
bcdedit /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True # From regular OS cmd.exe

HTH,
Paul
HB
2018-03-14 06:32:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul
Post by HB
Post by Wolf K
f8 or f2 access BIOS, _not_ the HD. Can you copy (by hand, I guss) and
post the technical messages? That would be helpful.
It says "InsydeH20setup utility" at the top of the screen.
There are too many. 6 tabs on one screen. Text on each tab. None mention
Safe Mode or system recovery. Example. On the Avanced tab it says: Boot
Speed. Boot sound. USB Legacy Emulation. System Configuration.
These are images that I found of what I'm seeing for the most part.
They're the closest but not exactly the same.
https://www.google.com/search?q=InsydeH20setup+utility&client=firefox-b-1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj-ifiU0ejZAhUQjlkKHX6XA1MQ_AUIDCgD&biw=1408&bih=625
I'm going by what I found on the net. None of the F keys brings up the
screen I'm familiar with where Safe Mode is a choice. The online info
says to tap F8 as the PC comes on but all that gets me is a black screen
and a annoying beeping sound when a key is pressed.
InsydeH20 is a *BIOS* company.
Pressing F2 or F8 or F12 early after the power
comes on, caused you to drop into the BIOS.
After the flashing "_" appears in the upper left
hand corner of an otherwise black screen, is the
OS booting. At that point, some of the older OSes
would accept pressing of F8 to enter the
Safe Mode OS menu.
That didn't work. No menu. No choice of Safe Mode.
Post by Paul
The timing of the key press is critical. On
a machine with a BIOS which happens to use F8, you
will end up in the BIOS if your timing is not
perfect. And if you're late during the OS boot
phase, the OS will (attempt) to boot in regular mode.
On the modern OSes, you can use BCDEdit from the
OS installer DVD or from the emergency boot CD,
use the Command Prompt window there, to set a BCD
option to cause the machine to stop at the
Safe Mode screen.
This Toshiba was given to me with nothing - no CD and no emergency boot
disc.
Post by Paul
However, if the booting bits of your OS are
corrupted, it might never even get a chance
to consider your presses of F8, or your
entreaty via the BCD, to stop at the
Safe Mode screen.
*******
1) Boot the computer using the Windows 7 SP1 installer DVD.
Select the troubleshooting options, rather than anything
related to installation. That might require accepting the
"language" screen when it comes up, but after that, there
should be a button for Troubleshooting. This gives a
Command Prompt window.
I have no discs for the computer. I didn't get any with the last few NEW
computers I bought either. Discs seem to be a thing of the past. The last
disc I got with a PC was for WXP years ago.
Post by Paul
2) Look at Option 3 here.
https://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/69585-safe-mode.html
bcdedit # review the details
# sometimes a refusal to boot is
# caused by a blank entry for a volume
bcdedit /set {current} safeboot minimal # Add the entry to BCD
bcdedit # Verify it looks correct
HP Pavillian.
Post by Paul
3) Type "exit" in Command Prompt or close the window,
then allow the machine to boot to the hard drive.
I don't know why you're heading to Safe Mode, what you have
in mind, but that's an example of doing it.
I wanted to get into SM to do a system recovery so the black screen of death
didn't occur again. How do I do that with no discs? F8 doesn't bring up
Advanced Boot Options anymore.
Post by Paul
To remove it later, you can repeat the above approach from
a Windows Administrator (elevated) Command Prompt window.
bcdedit # review the details
# Make sure the menu item is in "Current"
bcdedit /deletevalue {current} safeboot
Some of the BCD options can also be neutered by "/set"
to a benign value, and then you don't even need to
deletevalue to switch them off. BCD also has
options where it has Booleans, and True and False
are synonyms for Yes and No.
The nice thing about BCDEdit, is a hell of a lot of
nice examples have been written and documented since
Vista came out. And working with the BCD (from an
emergency boot CD or from an installer DVD), no longer
has to be "mysterious". The sevenforums site has
recipes. Not all the recipes are "most useful",
and the reason I selected the Option 3 from the
above one, is a lot of what we do here is "emergency"
edits, where the user can no longer use the regular
OS to edit stuff.
You can do offline edits (edit the BCD on other drives
in the computer), using the /store option.
bcdedit /store C:\boot\BCD /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True
When you do stuff like that, it's up to you to use
the "dir" command to actually verify the drive lettering,
since drives get different lettering in virtually every
environment you work in.
That particular command there, happens to be a favorite of
mine, because it adds a "WinXP style black boot menu" to
OSes like Windows 10 :-) Just ignoring the two OS boot
choices here, there *is* a row on the screen that says
to "press F8", so this menu just happens to give you
access to all the Safe Mode options. I want this window
for the "press F8" option, not because the OS boot
choices look pretty or something. This is how I get to
Safe Mode. The black screen sits there for 30 seconds,
giving plenty of time to make a single press of F8.
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/22455-enable-disable-f8-advanced-boot-options-windows-10-a.html
bcdedit /store C:\boot\BCD /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True #
booted from emergency CD
bcdedit /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True #
From regular OS cmd.exe
HTH,
Paul
You're assuming F8 works and I can get to that menu when I cannot or I would
not be here. I could have done the System Restore and that would have been
the end of it. F8 doesn't bring up Advanced Boot Options anymore and there
are no discs that came with the Toshiba. How do I get that menu to come up
when F8 doesn't do it and there are no discs?
Paul
2018-03-14 08:37:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HB
This Toshiba was given to me with nothing - no CD and no emergency boot
disc.
The Heidoc URL generator is still down, for obtaining retail
Windows 7 SP1 discs.

https://www.heidoc.net/joomla/technology-science/microsoft/67-microsoft-windows-iso-download-tool

It's hard to say whether that designer will be able to get it
fixed again.

This is the result of running the current version (5.29).

Loading Image...

Heidoc doesn't host the ISO files. It merely generates a URL
for a microsoft folder that contains the ISO. The URL (like other
Microsoft dynamic downloads) is only valid for 24 hours once
the URL is generated.

The "trick" for getting Windows 7 is broken right now, and
who knows whether it can ever be fixed.

*******

The second source of ISO files, is DigitalRiver, who is a
software seller, and they worked with Microsoft. And their
download servers were "open" and people used to get copies
of particular Windows 7 SKUs that way. I got a Home Premium x64
for my laptop that way. The DigitalRiver OS server has been closed
for several years now.

*******

If you have multiple computers, if one of them has a Retail
Win7 license key, you can use that with the official Microsoft
download page. Say for example, you had a desktop with Win7 Ultimate.
Take the license key from that, enter it on this page, and
order up a Win7 SP1 Home Premium for your laptop. All you need
is one good key, to download any SKU you need for Win7.
(You can change the country-code here from en-ca to whatever
country you're in. To make things nice and tidy. Like en-us
or en-gb and so on.)

https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/software-download/windows7

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who has an OS to repair,
deserves an ISO to use, and this "license entry" idea is
for the birds. We don't want to rely on MSDN-inspired
Torrents for our install DVDs, now do we ? :-)

*******

It's quite possible the laptop has a restore partition,
which could also put the original OS back, whatever that
OS might be. It all depends on whether the hard drive was
ever replaced at some point, as to whether it's still
there.

Paul
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-03-14 12:57:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
[]
Post by HB
Post by Paul
After the flashing "_" appears in the upper left
hand corner of an otherwise black screen, is the
OS booting. At that point, some of the older OSes
I think we've established that it isn't.
Post by HB
Post by Paul
would accept pressing of F8 to enter the
Safe Mode OS menu.
That didn't work. No menu. No choice of Safe Mode.
[]
Post by HB
Post by Paul
On the modern OSes, you can use BCDEdit from the
OS installer DVD or from the emergency boot CD,
use the Command Prompt window there, to set a BCD
option to cause the machine to stop at the
Safe Mode screen.
This Toshiba was given to me with nothing - no CD and no emergency boot
disc.
That's normal, and has been for quite a long time. Usually on first use,
it would have suggested you make some sort of recovery discs, and told
you how to do so, but most users turn off those nags after a while.
Since you weren't the first user, you never saw those nags.
[]
Post by HB
I have no discs for the computer. I didn't get any with the last few NEW
computers I bought either. Discs seem to be a thing of the past. The last
disc I got with a PC was for WXP years ago.
You were lucky! I didn't with my XP machine. I think supply of CDs with
computers started to die out in the '98/'95 era.
[]
Post by HB
HP Pavillian.
Pavilion I suspect (-:
[]
Post by HB
Post by Paul
I don't know why you're heading to Safe Mode, what you have
in mind, but that's an example of doing it.
I wanted to get into SM to do a system recovery so the black screen of death
didn't occur again. How do I do that with no discs? F8 doesn't bring up
Advanced Boot Options anymore.
[]
Post by HB
You're assuming F8 works and I can get to that menu when I cannot or I would
not be here. I could have done the System Restore and that would have been
the end of it. F8 doesn't bring up Advanced Boot Options anymore and there
are no discs that came with the Toshiba. How do I get that menu to come up
when F8 doesn't do it and there are no discs?
As you've discovered the hard way, System Restore is no protection
against hard disc failure, and little protection against important file
corruption - because the computer needs to be able to boot up to the
point where you can invoke Safe Mode at least, in order to _do_ a System
Restore. While System Restore _is_ more use than some here think, you
really need to be creating an image (on an external disc, or DVDs
[lots!] or memory stick) of your important partitions, using something
like Macrium or Acronis (both are free, as are others) - and also making
the CD that those can make, so you can boot from that CD in order to
restore the image. But we'll get to that much later - we've got to get
you back to a working system first!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Illinc fui et illud feci, habe tunicam?
HB
2018-03-15 07:22:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Brevity snip
[]
Post by HB
You're assuming F8 works and I can get to that menu when I cannot or I would
not be here. I could have done the System Restore and that would have been
the end of it. F8 doesn't bring up Advanced Boot Options anymore and there
are no discs that came with the Toshiba. How do I get that menu to come up
when F8 doesn't do it and there are no discs?
As you've discovered the hard way, System Restore is no protection against
hard disc failure, and little protection against important file
corruption - because the computer needs to be able to boot up to the point
where you can invoke Safe Mode at least, in order to _do_ a System
Restore. While System Restore _is_ more use than some here think, you
really need to be creating an image (on an external disc, or DVDs [lots!]
or memory stick) of your important partitions, using something like
Macrium or Acronis (both are free, as are others) - and also making the CD
that those can make, so you can boot from that CD in order to restore the
image. But we'll get to that much later - we've got to get you back to a
working system first!
This is another concern of mine. I not only didn't get CDs with the last 2
PCs, but no nag screens either. How do I make a bootable disc for them or
one of these "images"? One is a Tablet w/W-10 and the other a Notebook
w/W-10. I have nothing in case one goes dark on me. The one before these
is a HP laptop and I followed the directons and the info was copied onto a
Thumbdrive. But can that $900 dollar PC boot from it? I have no idea. There
was no info as to what to do with the thumbdrive if the computer crashed.
--
Illinc fui et illud feci, habe tunicam?
Wolf K
2018-03-13 13:23:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HB
Post by HB
Post by Java Jive
But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ...
It's not dead as it brought up technical screens when tapping F8 or F2. It
ran fine with the battery not charged and plugged in.
f8 or f2 access BIOS,_not_ the HD. Can you copy (by hand, I guss) and
post the technical messages? That would be helpful.
It says "InsydeH20setup utility" at the top of the screen.
There are too many. 6 tabs on one screen. Text on each tab. None mention
Safe Mode or system recovery. Example. On the Avanced tab it says: Boot
Speed. Boot sound. USB Legacy Emulation. System Configuration.
[...]

As Vanguard says, either Windows is messed up somehow, or else the HDD
is messed up somehow. Either way, Windows isn't being loaded. The boot
stops before it loads Windows. I don't know which is more likely on your
case, but IMO it's the HDD.

I'm afraid that all you can do at this point is a couple more diagnostic
tests, such as booting Linux (another operating system) from the CD/DVD
drive. You'd have to ask a friend to download Linux and burn it it to a
DVD.

But the bottom line IMO is that you can't do anything to fix this
machine. A tech can probably fix it, but it's up to you to decide
whether it's worth the price.

More explanation of what you are seeing when you try to boot the machine:

You are seeing the BIOS config screen. Windows is not starting at all.

BIOS = "basic Input Output System". It's a small program that's built
into the computer. It's on a chip. The computer can't function without
it. The first stage of booting runs the BIOS, which looks for an
operating system to load and run. On your machine, the operating system
is Windows.

Windows is the operating system. It contains all the software needed to
make the machine fully functional. It's on the HDD. During boot, it is
copied into RAM (memory chips). Once it's loaded, it runs, that's when
you'll see your desktop etc. That's also when you could restart
_Windows_ in safe mode.

Good luck and best wishes,
--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"The next conference for the time travel design team will be held two
weeks ago."
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-03-13 15:55:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message <jhQpC.58985$***@fx10.iad>, Wolf K
<***@sympatico.ca> writes:
[]
Post by Wolf K
As Vanguard says, either Windows is messed up somehow, or else the HDD
is messed up somehow. Either way, Windows isn't being loaded. The boot
stops before it loads Windows. I don't know which is more likely on
your case, but IMO it's the HDD.
I'm afraid that all you can do at this point is a couple more
diagnostic tests, such as booting Linux (another operating system) from
the CD/DVD drive. You'd have to ask a friend to download Linux and burn
it it to a DVD.
He wouldn't have to ask a friend: he's obviously got another computer,
as he's talking to us. (OK, we might or might not have to talk him
through burning from an ISO, but that's trivial.) Assuming his other
computer has a DVD burner that is. (Though even one of the old Linuces
that will fit on a CD would probably serve our needs here.)
Post by Wolf K
But the bottom line IMO is that you can't do anything to fix this
machine. A tech can probably fix it, but it's up to you to decide
whether it's worth the price.
I wouldn't go that far yet! Let's establish whether it's a faulty HD, or
just file corruption, first. I haven't seen anything yet to indicate
there's anything wrong with the machine that isn't just one of those two
(though it is possible).
Post by Wolf K
You are seeing the BIOS config screen. Windows is not starting at all.
BIOS = "basic Input Output System". It's a small program that's built
Or built-in operating system.
[]
Post by Wolf K
Good luck and best wishes,
From me too. I think HB is capable of doing more for himself, with
perhaps guidance from us where necessary, than some here think (-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Veni Vidi Vacuum [I came, I saw, It sucked] - ***@saslimited.demon.co.uk, 1998
HB
2018-03-14 06:43:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
[]
As Vanguard says, either Windows is messed up somehow, or else the HDD is
messed up somehow. Either way, Windows isn't being loaded. The boot stops
before it loads Windows. I don't know which is more likely on your case,
but IMO it's the HDD.
I'm afraid that all you can do at this point is a couple more diagnostic
tests, such as booting Linux (another operating system) from the CD/DVD
drive. You'd have to ask a friend to download Linux and burn it it to a
DVD.
He wouldn't have to ask a friend: he's obviously got another computer, as
he's talking to us. (OK, we might or might not have to talk him through
burning from an ISO, but that's trivial.) Assuming his other computer has
a DVD burner that is. (Though even one of the old Linuces that will fit on
a CD would probably serve our needs here.)
They all have CD drives except the Tablet. Do I just download this Linux,
burn it to a CD or DVD and then try to boot the Toshiba with it? Just put
it in the tray and.....? At what point does the CD go into the tray? That
wont mess up the windows files already on the HD?
But the bottom line IMO is that you can't do anything to fix this machine.
A tech can probably fix it, but it's up to you to decide whether it's
worth the price.
I wouldn't go that far yet! Let's establish whether it's a faulty HD, or
just file corruption, first. I haven't seen anything yet to indicate
there's anything wrong with the machine that isn't just one of those two
(though it is possible).
You are seeing the BIOS config screen. Windows is not starting at all.
BIOS = "basic Input Output System". It's a small program that's built
Or built-in operating system.
[]
Good luck and best wishes,
From me too. I think HB is capable of doing more for himself, with perhaps
--
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-03-14 13:23:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Read all the way through - try not to glaze (-:

In message <p8aga3$npl$***@dont-email.me>, HB <***@fake.com> writes:
[]
Post by HB
They all have CD drives except the Tablet. Do I just download this Linux,
burn it to a CD or DVD and then try to boot the Toshiba with it? Just put
Yes. The burning to a CD stage involves the "burn from ISO image" option
of your burning software, not just writing the file to a DVD; tell us
what burning software you're using - in some, selecting that option is
obvious, in some less so. If you're not sure about this, ask (telling us
what burning software you use) and we'll help; if necessary, we'll
recommend suitable free burning software. (The most popular seems to be
ImgBurn, version 2.5.8.0 or 2.5.7.0 [later versions have junk bundled
with them], which can be got from repositories like oldversion.com -
http://www.oldversion.com/windows/imgburn-2-5-7-0 .)
Post by HB
it in the tray and.....? At what point does the CD go into the tray? That
Ideally, before you turn on the computer. Since you'll need it on to
eject the tray (unless you use the paperclip method), turn it on, press
the eject button, turn it off.
Post by HB
wont mess up the windows files already on the HD?
Just booting the Linux shouldn't. Things you do while _in_ the Linux
may, but only deliberate actions - and after all, assuming the HD
doesn't have a hardware fault, we're going to have to tweak files on it
anyway.

Note that booting the Linux from CD will be slow, as with booting any OS
from CD, compared to what you're used to booting Windows from HD. [I
haven't played with a Linux for a very long time, but I can't imagine
this will have changed!]
[]
I really think examining the HD using another (Windows) machine will be
easier for you, than learning how to use Linux if you haven't before -
but, this is probably the _cheapest_ option, as it would only cost a
blank DVD, rather than a couple of cheap cables. (Though there is a
cost-free method, if the desktop machine's CD/DVD is SATA; see my
previous post.)

Another alternative would be to make a Windows 7 DVD (see one of Paul's
posts), and boot from that, to get at the recovery console.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Illinc fui et illud feci, habe tunicam?
HB
2018-03-15 07:50:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by HB
They all have CD drives except the Tablet. Do I just download this Linux,
burn it to a CD or DVD and then try to boot the Toshiba with it? Just put
Yes. The burning to a CD stage involves the "burn from ISO image" option
of your burning software, not just writing the file to a DVD; tell us what
burning software you're using - in some, selecting that option is obvious,
in some less so.
I had to pass since Linux was a 8 GB download and I don't have unlimited ISP
service. The website didn't say what to do with it once downloaded. The
extenstion was unknown to me. The MS rescue software I downloaded did
nothing to boot the Toshiba nor did the Avira boot disk.

If you're not sure about this, ask (telling us
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
what burning software you use) and we'll help; if necessary, we'll
recommend suitable free burning software. (The most popular seems to be
ImgBurn, version 2.5.8.0 or 2.5.7.0 [later versions have junk bundled with
them], which can be got from repositories like oldversion.com -
http://www.oldversion.com/windows/imgburn-2-5-7-0 .)
I have Ashampoo installed. I would have to go through the thumb-drives to
see what else I have saved and not installed. I personally haven't burned a
CD or DVD in years.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by HB
it in the tray and.....? At what point does the CD go into the tray? That
Ideally, before you turn on the computer. Since you'll need it on to eject
the tray (unless you use the paperclip method), turn it on, press the
eject button, turn it off.
Post by HB
wont mess up the windows files already on the HD?
Just booting the Linux shouldn't. Things you do while _in_ the Linux may,
but only deliberate actions - and after all, assuming the HD doesn't have
a hardware fault, we're going to have to tweak files on it anyway.
Wouldn't it be easier for me to just take the HD to a shop and let them
check it? How would Linux get the Toshiba to boot since it doesn't react to
the rescue discs? Isn't there anything smaller to give the same
information?
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Note that booting the Linux from CD will be slow, as with booting any OS
from CD, compared to what you're used to booting Windows from HD. [I
haven't played with a Linux for a very long time, but I can't imagine this
will have changed!]
[]
I really think examining the HD using another (Windows) machine will be
easier for you, than learning how to use Linux if you haven't before -
but, this is probably the _cheapest_ option, as it would only cost a blank
DVD, rather than a couple of cheap cables. (Though there is a cost-free
method, if the desktop machine's CD/DVD is SATA; see my previous post.)
I don't know know if it's SATA. Opening up the case and pulling out parts
is not something I'm anxious to do. How would I know if the HDs good or not
if it's hooked to the CD cables? What would that tell me?

It will cost me because I don't have unlimited service and will either go
over the 20 GBs or my family will have around 2 GB for the rest of the month
which is unrealistic around here. Verizon charges $10 a GB and it adds up
fast. There has to be something smaller than that out there.I know nothing
about Linux. It would be useless to me.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Another alternative would be to make a Windows 7 DVD (see one of Paul's
posts), and boot from that, to get at the recovery console.
How do I do that when you can't move W software that comes with one PC to
another? I assume I would copy the files on the D: drive, not the C: drive.
And THAT will boot a computer from another mfg?
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
--
Illinc fui et illud feci, habe tunicam?
Java Jive
2018-03-13 13:19:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HB
Post by Java Jive
whereas I think your other half meant just the hard drive, assuming it was
dead, did she not? This is a standard way of preventing personal data
being retrieved from binned HDs. Personally, I use a lump hammer and a
cold chisel on a concrete floor or step.
Yes, that's what she meant. Destroy the HD.
Thought as much, but let's make sure that it really is dead before we
perform the last rites ...
Post by HB
Post by Java Jive
But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ...
It's not dead as it brought up technical screens when tapping F8 or F2. It
ran fine with the battery not charged and plugged in.
No, the technical screens come from the BIOS, which is *usually* a chip
on the motherboard, not written to the HD.

{
Hopefully irrelevant historical note:

Having said that, about 15-20 years ago I encountered some Dell desktops
where some of the BIOS functions were combined with some Dell system
recovery functions on a hidden first partition of the HD, and if, as was
the firm's policy, you wiped the HD before putting the firm's standard
build on it, you lost that partition and thereby the ability to enter
the useful BIOS interactive GUI. I presume some BIOS functionality must
have remained, because otherwise the PCs could not have got as far as
booting the OS, but the BIOS GUI was definitely missing. Consequently,
I rewrote the scripts to leave the hidden partition in place.
}
Post by HB
Post by Java Jive
Post by HB
On the back it just says Satellite followed by numbers. I don't know which
numbers would be relevant. This is the 1st number. C655D (or 0) S5063 system
unit.
I would suggest going to Toshiba's site and comparing what you have with
pictures of other models and their given designations one of which will
probably be close to the above. When dealing with problems or buying
spares, it is *nearly always important* to know exactly what it is that
you have.
This was given to us by a realtive. She said it was too slow and wanted a
better faster newer laptop.
I'm afraid that you must learn what is useful information and what is
not - the above is not.

What would be useful is for you to find the exact model number by
comparing what you have with information from Toshiba's website.
Post by HB
I could usually get rid of problems like this by accessing
safe mode and doing as System Recovery or Restore. But nothing led to safe
mode.
What you are referring to as 'Safe Mode' is part of Windows, which you
will only reach if the HD is working.

You need to get your head around how a PC boots. The processor in a PC
is built in such a way that on receiving power it goes to a particular
place in its memory to begin execution of whatever instructions it finds
there. These instructions are part of the Basic Input Output System
(the BIOS that we keep mentioning). The BIOS performs some
self-diagnostic tests, then if these are satisfactory it searches any
attached media - hard disk, CD/DVD, or USB stick, in an order that is
settable within the BIOS - for an Operating System (OS) to run.
Usually, as in your case, it finds an OS on the first partition of the
only HD, and, again as in your case, it is often Windows. There is more
detail on another page on my site that describes this process:

http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/PCHardware/PCBootProcess.html

Whether or not you choose to understand the details above, the important
consequence is that, if the HD has gone down, the PC can never find an
OS to run, and can never offer you Windows 'Safe Mode'.
Post by HB
I'll do some Googling again and see if I find anything helpful. I'm sure a
tech would have found those screens that came up helpful. To me they may as
well have been in Chinese.
BUT the fact that you have got into the BIOS at all does suggest that
most of the PC is functioning, and in itself that is encouraging. Next
we have to find out which part of the PC is broken, and, from what we
know so far, the hard disk does seem a likely culprit, but it would be
premature to *assume* that at this stage.

More generally, when reading technical stuff that is unfamiliar to you,
it's important to resist developing the habit of going into either panic
or glaze mode. Although officially I'm now retired, I've just spent
three days at a legacy client's configuring a cloud phone system,
something which I've never done before, and I did it successfully
because I did it step by step, trying to understand one thing at a time.
You have to be prepared to invest some time and effort in studying and
trying to understand what needs to be understood.
Post by HB
Post by Java Jive
If the laptop can boot from a USB stick, then download an Ubuntu or other
Linux distro - make sure you get a suitable one, 32-bit or 64-bit as
appropriate - install it on a 2GB or larger USB stick, depending on the
size of the download, and see what messages Linux generates as it tries to
boot the PC. This may give you some useful pointers to a hardware fault.
If the PC boots from the stick, then you should see your hard disk
partition(s) as clickable icons down the left hand side menu (in Ubuntu,
other distros may be different, for example the icons may be on the
desktop). Try this and come back to us with a description of what
happens, particularly whether the PC boots at all, whether Linux lets see
your HD at all, and even the contents of it.
OK.. will do.
Have you tried this yet? If the PC can boot from a USB stick, then
hopefully all that is wrong is the HD, so then we would have to see if
it can be retrieved as a whole, or at least if your data can be
retrieved from it.

IMPORTANT NOTE: You may have to master an understanding of the BIOS
sufficient to set the boot order so as to ensure that the PC will try to
boot from a USB stick, if one is present. If that is beyond you, burn
the Linux distro to a CD or DVD instead, and see if the PC will boot
from that.
HB
2018-03-14 07:20:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Java Jive
Post by HB
Post by Java Jive
whereas I think your other half meant just the hard drive, assuming it was
dead, did she not? This is a standard way of preventing personal data
being retrieved from binned HDs. Personally, I use a lump hammer and a
cold chisel on a concrete floor or step.
Yes, that's what she meant. Destroy the HD.
Thought as much, but let's make sure that it really is dead before we
perform the last rites ...
Post by HB
Post by Java Jive
But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ...
It's not dead as it brought up technical screens when tapping F8 or F2. It
ran fine with the battery not charged and plugged in.
No, the technical screens come from the BIOS, which is *usually* a chip on
the motherboard, not written to the HD.
I learn something every day. Seriously.
Post by Java Jive
{
Having said that, about 15-20 years ago I encountered some Dell desktops
where some of the BIOS functions were combined with some Dell system
recovery functions on a hidden first partition of the HD, and if, as was
the firm's policy, you wiped the HD before putting the firm's standard
build on it, you lost that partition and thereby the ability to enter the
useful BIOS interactive GUI. I presume some BIOS functionality must have
remained, because otherwise the PCs could not have got as far as booting
the scripts to leave the hidden partition in place.
}
Post by HB
Post by Java Jive
Post by HB
On the back it just says Satellite followed by numbers. I don't know which
numbers would be relevant. This is the 1st number. C655D (or 0) S5063 system
unit.
I would suggest going to Toshiba's site and comparing what you have with
pictures of other models and their given designations one of which will
probably be close to the above. When dealing with problems or buying
spares, it is *nearly always important* to know exactly what it is that
you have.
This was given to us by a realtive. She said it was too slow and wanted a
better faster newer laptop.
I'm afraid that you must learn what is useful information and what is
ot - the above is not.
What would be useful is for you to find the exact model number by
comparing what you have with information from Toshiba's website.
Post by HB
I could usually get rid of problems like this by accessing
safe mode and doing as System Recovery or Restore. But nothing led to safe
mode.
What you are referring to as 'Safe Mode' is part of Windows, which you
will only reach if the HD is working.
I hear it spin up and when the PC gets hot the I can hear a fan start.
Post by Java Jive
You need to get your head around how a PC boots. The processor in a PC is
built in such a way that on receiving power it goes to a particular place
in its memory to begin execution of whatever instructions it finds there.
These instructions are part of the Basic Input Output System (the BIOS
that we keep mentioning). The BIOS performs some self-diagnostic tests,
then if these are satisfactory it searches any attached media - hard
disk, CD/DVD, or USB stick, in an order that is settable within the
IOS - for an Operating System (OS) to run. Usually, as in your case, it
finds an OS on the first partition of the only HD, and, again as in your
case, it is often Windows. There is more detail on another page on my
site that describes this process.
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/PCHardware/PCBootProcess.htm
Interesting and informative. I'll check your site tomorrow.
Post by Java Jive
Whether or not you choose to understand the details above, the important
consequence is that, if the HD has gone down, the PC can never find an OS
to run, and can never offer you Windows 'Safe Mode'.
Post by HB
I'll do some Googling again and see if I find anything helpful. I'm sure a
tech would have found those screens that came up helpful. To me they may as
well have been in Chinese.
BUT the fact that you have got into the BIOS at all does suggest that most
of the PC is functioning, and in itself that is encouraging. Next we have
to find out which part of the PC is broken, and, from what we know so far,
the hard disk does seem a likely culprit, but it would be premature to
*assume* that at this stage.
OK.
Post by Java Jive
More generally, when reading technical stuff that is unfamiliar to you,
it's important to resist developing the habit of going into either panic
or glaze mode. Although officially I'm now retired, I've just spent three
days at a legacy client's configuring a cloud phone system, something
which I've never done before, and I did it successfully because I did it
step by step, trying to understand one thing at a time. You have to be
prepared to invest some time and effort in studying and trying to
understand what needs to be understood.
I agree with you completely. Glaze mode sounds familiar.
Post by Java Jive
Post by HB
Post by Java Jive
If the laptop can boot from a USB stick, then download an Ubuntu or other
Linux distro - make sure you get a suitable one, 32-bit or 64-bit as
appropriate - install it on a 2GB or larger USB stick, depending on the
size of the download, and see what messages Linux generates as it tries to
boot the PC. This may give you some useful pointers to a hardware fault.
If the PC boots from the stick, then you should see your hard disk
partition(s) as clickable icons down the left hand side menu (in Ubuntu,
other distros may be different, for example the icons may be on the
desktop). Try this and come back to us with a description of what
happens, particularly whether the PC boots at all, whether Linux lets see
your HD at all, and even the contents of it.
OK.. will do.OS.
Have you tried this yet? If the PC can boot from a USB stick, then
hopefully all that is wrong is the HD, so then we would have to see if it
can be retrieved as a whole, or at least if your data can be retrieved
from it.
No, my job and family interfered. I have to stop and pick up a flash drive
as the ones I have don't have 2 GB of space left for this Ubantu. I assume I
just insert the flash and turn the Toshiba on and see what happens? What's
suppose to happen? I know nothing about that OS. Or I can use DVDs. Maybe
that's the better choice since there are plenty of them here. That should be
handled tomorrow. Too much coffee, not enough sleep.
Post by Java Jive
IMPORTANT NOTE: You may have to master an understanding of the BIOS
sufficient to set the boot order so as to ensure that the PC will try to
boot from a USB stick, if one is present. If that is beyond you, burn the
Linux distro to a CD or DVD instead, and see if the PC will boot from
that.
F2 brought up InsydeH20 Setup Utility. I got the Boot tab where it can be
changed from HDD/SSD to FDD, LAN or USB.

The battery is still charged as it's not plugged in this time either.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-03-14 13:42:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
[]
Post by HB
Post by Java Jive
No, the technical screens come from the BIOS, which is *usually* a chip on
the motherboard, not written to the HD.
I learn something every day. Seriously.
As do we all! I'm learning odd snippets from this thread, too.
[]
Post by HB
Post by Java Jive
What you are referring to as 'Safe Mode' is part of Windows, which you
will only reach if the HD is working.
I hear it spin up and when the PC gets hot the I can hear a fan start.
So you're definitely hearing the HD spinning, not the fan. Good to know.
[]
Post by HB
Post by Java Jive
BUT the fact that you have got into the BIOS at all does suggest that most
of the PC is functioning, and in itself that is encouraging. Next we have
I second that. And if it is, even if the HD _is_ duff, I'd say it's
probably worth the effort to resuscitate it: a laptop of the W7 era (I'm
assuming it _is_ of the W7 era [look at stickers on it] not one that's
been upgraded from Vista or before) probably _is_ worth something. (And
you'll need a 7 machine anyway, for your daughter's favourite game!)
Post by HB
Post by Java Jive
to find out which part of the PC is broken, and, from what we know so far,
the hard disk does seem a likely culprit, but it would be premature to
*assume* that at this stage.
I agree.
Post by HB
OK.
Post by Java Jive
More generally, when reading technical stuff that is unfamiliar to you,
it's important to resist developing the habit of going into either panic
or glaze mode. Although officially I'm now retired, I've just spent three
[]
Post by HB
I agree with you completely. Glaze mode sounds familiar.
I _try_ not to give too much information at once, to avoid glaze mode -
but I do like to give a lot of background information (as do the others
here), which I do recognise can lead to glaze. Part of the reason I say
"please read to end" is to avoid panic mode, where you do one of the
first things described, where one of the later ones might be easier.

And I _try_ not to sound condescending. I hope I succeed most of the
time.
[]
Post by HB
No, my job and family interfered. I have to stop and pick up a flash drive
as the ones I have don't have 2 GB of space left for this Ubantu. I assume I
(Ubuntu, I think.) Might be easier to just use a DVD (though it will
boot slower). [Though see previous post about burning from an ISO not
just as data.] (You other guys: if he _does_ use a memory stick, is
there anything similar to ISO-ing a DVD that has to be done when loading
the stick, to make it bootable, or doesn't that apply?)
Post by HB
just insert the flash and turn the Toshiba on and see what happens? What's
suppose to happen? I know nothing about that OS. Or I can use DVDs. Maybe
that's the better choice since there are plenty of them here. That should be
handled tomorrow. Too much coffee, not enough sleep.
Post by Java Jive
IMPORTANT NOTE: You may have to master an understanding of the BIOS
sufficient to set the boot order so as to ensure that the PC will try to
boot from a USB stick, if one is present. If that is beyond you, burn the
Linux distro to a CD or DVD instead, and see if the PC will boot from
that.
F2 brought up InsydeH20 Setup Utility. I got the Boot tab where it can be
changed from HDD/SSD to FDD, LAN or USB.
Or, I hope, CD/DVD (or words to that effect).

As long as they're all listed, it shouldn't matter _too_ much, as that
list _usually_ just determines the _order_ in which the BIOS looks for
something bootable: if it doesn't find anything bootable on the first in
the list, it'll look in the next, and so on. Useful if you _can_ make
sure CD/DVD or USB (as appropriate) is first, though.
Post by HB
The battery is still charged as it's not plugged in this time either.
I think that was a red herring (though we might need to establish why it
said it wasn't charging, if we ever get back to that point): I'd leave
it plugged in while we're doing the investigating/fixing.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Illinc fui et illud feci, habe tunicam?
Java Jive
2018-03-14 16:09:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
No, my job and family interfered.  I have to stop and pick up a flash
drive
as the ones I have don't have 2 GB of space left for this Ubantu. I assume I
(Ubuntu, I think.) Might be easier to just use a DVD (though it will
boot slower). [Though see previous post about burning from an ISO not
just as data.] (You other guys: if he _does_ use a memory stick, is
there anything similar to ISO-ing a DVD that has to be done when loading
the stick, to make it bootable, or doesn't that apply?)
You have to write the image to the stick so as to make it bootable,
similarly to a CD/DVD - AFAIAA, you can't just copy the files across.
There is free software out there to do this. I use Rufus, but I believe
there are plenty of others.

http://rufus.akeo.ie

The OP should buy more than one USB stick, as sometimes they fail when
being written to, just as sometimes happens with CDs & DVDs. You can
buy packs of 5 x 4GB or similar fairly cheaply, and they come in useful
for other things as well.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
F2 brought up InsydeH20 Setup Utility.  I got the Boot tab where it
can be
changed from HDD/SSD to FDD, LAN or USB.
Or, I hope, CD/DVD (or words to that effect).
As long as they're all listed, it shouldn't matter _too_ much, as that
list _usually_ just determines the _order_ in which the BIOS looks for
something bootable: if it doesn't find anything bootable on the first in
the list, it'll look in the next, and so on. Useful if you _can_ make
sure CD/DVD or USB (as appropriate) is first, though.
Yes, because if the HD is failing in an awkward way, it may prevent the
BIOS from moving on to try the next type of media. One of the first
things I change on any PC is the boot order to be as follows ...

Laptops: USB CD/DVD HD
Desktops: FD USB CD/DVD HD

I wouldn't imagine that many home users ever use booting via LAN, it's
more the sort of thing that corporate PCs might be set up to do.
Wolf K
2018-03-11 15:39:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-03-11 06:11, HB wrote:

[...]
Post by HB
On the back it just says Satellite followed by numbers. I don't know which
numbers would be relevant. This is the 1st number. C655D (or 0) S5063 system
unit.
Use the whole thing first with the D, if that doesn't work, then with
the 0, for a search string. Start with "Toshiba". (Sheesh, do you really
need to be told that? Just experiment, fergawdssake!)
Post by HB
What makes you think it's the battery since it worked fine without it as
long as it was plugged in? > I had this same "going blank" with the blinking
"-" in the upper left hand corner before and they were desktops. I don't
remember the exact figures anymore but to fix them, according to the shops
where I lived at the time, wasn't worth what it would cost. An XP and a
Vista both went the same way.
It wasn't dead when plugged in as info came up when I tapped F2 or F8 but
not safe mode.
You've already been told that "safe mode" is in Windows, _not_ in the
computer. You can't get into safe mode until Windows is loaded. Which
isn't happening, right?
Post by HB
Nothing that showed was familiar to me.
Google it.
Post by HB
A repair tech would
know what the info meant but it was Chinese to me.
You either got a standard BIOS screen, which gives you options to
select, or you got an error message. Which was it? If it was an error
message, what did it say?
Post by HB
So it didn't need a
battery to run.
That's not a sound inference. Why? Because if it were "running", it
would load Windows. OTOH, if the disk drive is somehow corrupted, it
wouldn't load Windows, either. Without an error message, there's no way
of telling.

A tech could find out, but that would cost you. But maybe a the fee for
diagnosis would be worth it. At worst, it would confirm that the machine
is toast. At best, it would indicate what repair(s) would make it
functional again.
Post by HB
I hate to toss it because it's like new. No one liked it
because it was slow. I was hoping to do a system recovery but couldn't get
into safe mode. I don't know any other way to do a system restore or
recovery.
Well, if the machine won't load Windows, you can't do that. But if it
did load Windows, you wouldn't need to do it. So....

Without further information, there's no point continuing this thread.
--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"The next conference for the time travel design team will be held two
weeks ago."
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-03-11 16:02:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
[]
Post by Wolf K
Post by HB
I hate to toss it because it's like new. No one liked it
because it was slow. I was hoping to do a system recovery but couldn't get
into safe mode. I don't know any other way to do a system restore or
recovery.
Well, if the machine won't load Windows, you can't do that. But if it
Not _strictly_ true; there are ways to do a system restore on the disc
from another machine. It's convoluted, and needs concentration, and is
easy to screw up by doing the wrong thing at the wrong stage. I'm not
sure _I_ could do it. See the archives of this 'group (and the XP one);
sorry, I can't remember search terms.
Post by Wolf K
did load Windows, you wouldn't need to do it. So....
Without further information, there's no point continuing this thread.
Certainly not with that attitude. Come on, give the guy some slack! I
know there are those who come here without adequate preparation *and
continue that way*, but I think this guy is genuine, just perhaps has a
little less experience than some of us/you; he seems to be doing his
best to answer questions, even keeping calm and answering those in a
tirade from Mayayana! Using a flamethrower is likely to drive away
newcomers, and we need them, if the 'group isn't to just remain as the
five or ten of us. (_I_ am not that knowledgeable - as my posts in the
last two weeks or so must show! - about Windows 7 as such.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

You cannot simply assume someone is honest just because they are not an MP.
Wolf K
2018-03-11 20:04:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Wolf K
Post by HB
I hate to toss it because it's like new. No one liked it
because it was slow. I was hoping to do a system recovery but couldn't get
into safe mode.  I don't know any other way to do a system restore or
recovery.
Well, if the machine won't load Windows, you can't do that. But if it
Not _strictly_ true; there are ways to do a system restore on the disc
from another machine. It's convoluted, and needs concentration, and is
easy to screw up by doing the wrong thing at the wrong stage. I'm not
sure _I_ could do it. See the archives of this 'group (and the XP one);
sorry, I can't remember search terms.
If I read you correctly, you're saying an image copied from another
machine might restore the disk (if it is in fact the disk that's the
problem.) I agree, I wouldn't recommend OP try to do that.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Wolf K
did load Windows, you wouldn't need to do it. So....
Without further information, there's no point continuing this thread.
Certainly not with that attitude. Come on, give the guy some slack!
OK, should've said "If we can't get more information, we can't continue
trying to solve the problem."
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I
know there are those who come here without adequate preparation *and
continue that way*, but I think this guy is genuine, just perhaps has a
little less experience than some of us/you; he seems to be doing his
best to answer questions, even keeping calm and answering those in a
tirade from Mayayana! Using a flamethrower is likely to drive away
newcomers, and we need them, if the 'group isn't to just remain as the
five or ten of us. (_I_ am not that knowledgeable - as my posts in the
last two weeks or so must show! - about Windows 7 as such.)
What I meant was what we need the information that OP refers to but
doesn't quote/specify. I'm still not sure whether the machine boots on
external power with or without the battery. See Vanguard's post, which
is an attempt to get clarity on that question.
--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"The next conference for the time travel design team will be held two
weeks ago."
Patrick
2018-03-11 21:23:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I know there are those who come here without adequate preparation *and
continue that way*, but I think this guy is genuine, just perhaps has
a little less experience than some of us/you; he seems to be doing his
best to answer questions, even keeping calm and answering those in a
tirade from Mayayana! Using a flamethrower is likely to drive away
newcomers, and we need them, if the 'group isn't to just remain as the
five or ten of us. (_I_ am not that knowledgeable - as my posts in the
last two weeks or so must show! - about Windows 7 as such.)
 What I meant was what we need the information that OP refers to but
doesn't quote/specify. I'm still not sure whether the machine boots on
external power with or without the battery. See Vanguard's post, which
is an attempt to get clarity on that question.
From the numbers/details ascertained from the OP, the machine appears
to be this;

https://support.toshiba.com/support/modelHome?freeText=2743964
HB
2018-03-13 00:37:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Wolf K
I know there are those who come here without adequate preparation *and
continue that way*, but I think this guy is genuine, just perhaps has a
little less experience than some of us/you; he seems to be doing his
best to answer questions, even keeping calm and answering those in a
tirade from Mayayana! Using a flamethrower is likely to drive away
newcomers, and we need them, if the 'group isn't to just remain as the
five or ten of us. (_I_ am not that knowledgeable - as my posts in the
last two weeks or so must show! - about Windows 7 as such.)
What I meant was what we need the information that OP refers to but
doesn't quote/specify. I'm still not sure whether the machine boots on
external power with or without the battery. See Vanguard's post, which is
an attempt to get clarity on that question.
From the numbers/details ascertained from the OP, the machine appears to
be this;
https://support.toshiba.com/support/modelHome?freeText=2743964
That sure looks like it. I'll check that site when I finish up here and
have free time later tonight.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-03-11 22:15:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Wolf K
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Wolf K
Post by HB
I hate to toss it because it's like new. No one liked it
because it was slow. I was hoping to do a system recovery but couldn't get
into safe mode.  I don't know any other way to do a system restore or
recovery.
Well, if the machine won't load Windows, you can't do that. But if it
Not _strictly_ true; there are ways to do a system restore on the
disc from another machine. It's convoluted, and needs concentration,
and is easy to screw up by doing the wrong thing at the wrong stage.
I'm not sure _I_ could do it. See the archives of this 'group (and
the XP one); sorry, I can't remember search terms.
If I read you correctly, you're saying an image copied from another
machine might restore the disk (if it is in fact the disk that's the
problem.) I agree, I wouldn't recommend OP try to do that.
No, I meant I remember seeing a way to get at previous restore points on
a disc that won't boot. It was something like: find the relevant files
(using another computer) in a directory with an obscure random-sounding
name, and save them; "repair" the system (in the faulty machine), such
that it creates initial as-new restore points; take the disc out again,
and replace (on the other computer) the as-new restore files with the
ones you've saved. I've probably missed some steps, or got them in the
wrong order; it's a while since I saw it described.
Post by Wolf K
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Wolf K
did load Windows, you wouldn't need to do it. So....
Without further information, there's no point continuing this thread.
Certainly not with that attitude. Come on, give the guy some slack!
OK, should've said "If we can't get more information, we can't continue
trying to solve the problem."
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I know there are those who come here without adequate preparation
*and continue that way*, but I think this guy is genuine, just
perhaps has a little less experience than some of us/you; he seems to
be doing his best to answer questions, even keeping calm and
answering those in a tirade from Mayayana! Using a flamethrower is
likely to drive away newcomers, and we need them, if the 'group isn't
to just remain as the five or ten of us. (_I_ am not that
knowledgeable - as my posts in the last two weeks or so must show! -
about Windows 7 as such.)
What I meant was what we need the information that OP refers to but
doesn't quote/specify. I'm still not sure whether the machine boots on
external power with or without the battery.
I agree, I'm waiting for him to answer that one, as it's a simple thing
to try.
Post by Wolf K
See Vanguard's post, which is an attempt to get clarity on that
question.
I did see one - quite a rant! - from Vanguard, followed by one from this
guy which seemed to me to be a very patient response. Granted, he didn't
reply to all the questions Vanguard asked, but I think he answered
several of them.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If you believe in telekinesis, raise my right hand
HB
2018-03-13 00:34:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
"Wolf K" <***@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:WYfpC.69714$***@fx21.iad...
-snip -
Post by Wolf K
What I meant was what we need the information that OP refers to but
doesn't quote/specify. I'm still not sure whether the machine boots on
external power with or without the battery. See Vanguard's post, which is
an attempt to get clarity on that question.
Let me clarify. I noticed the battery stopped charging maybe 3 weeks ago.
The battery looked to be at zero for days. If the cursor was placed on the
battery icon it read something like, "plugged in not charging". I figured
the battery bit the dust but it worked fine so anyone who wanted to use it
would plug it in, then turn it on. It would boot right up into windows and
run fine. Then one everning I did the same but the screen was black with
the blinking " - " in the upper left hand corner. I shut it off and started
it tapping the F8 key and some window came up with tech info but no choices
such as safe mode. One window came up and the choice was to do a memory
check which said memory was OK. I'm not sure which F key brought up that
window.

That's as far as I got with it. You know the rest.
VanguardLH
2018-03-11 18:02:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
With the battery in, laptop won't boot. With the battery out, the
laptop boots. That how it appears you describe the problem. Did I get
your description wrong? If not, seems pretty simple diagnosis: it's the
battery.

Doesn't the laptop's own boot screen offer a choice to hit a special key
or key combo the restore the computer to factory-time setup?

https://support.toshiba.com/support/viewContentDetail?contentId=2737864

A special-use partition is created on the HDD to perform the factory
default installation. It is either an image to lay back on the HDD or
an installer to perform a default install. If the laptop didn't come
with recovery CDs, the manual probably mentioned how to create them
after you received the prebuilt computer.
HB
2018-03-13 01:54:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by VanguardLH
With the battery in, laptop won't boot. With the battery out, the
laptop boots. That how it appears you describe the problem. Did I get
your description wrong? If not, seems pretty simple diagnosis: it's the
battery.
It wont boot into windows either way. It turns on and will bring up text
windows/screens by tapping F keys. That may be the misunderstanding. But
tonight, afrer reinstalling the battery and HD, I hit F12 and a menu of some
kind came up. There are 6 tabs. None give me the choice to get into Safe
Mode. It seems to only be info on what's on the PC such as memory size to
saving changes on exit. I have no idea what to do on any of these screens.
They're called Main, Security, Power management, Advanced,Boot and Exit.
Under the screen is a strip with choices such as F5 & 6 Change values
(whatever they are). F9 Setup Defaults (meaningless to me.) How can this be
helpful - any ideas?
Post by VanguardLH
Doesn't the laptop's own boot screen offer a choice to hit a special key
or key combo the restore the computer to factory-time setup?
At the very top it says, "InsydeH20 Setup Utility."

The Boot tab is mostly techie speak so I have no idea what to do with this.
The choices are:

HDD/SD
FDD
CD/DVD
LAN
USB

It says "Select the priority for booting the computer."

So which one do I select? I don't have a CD or DVD for this laptop. None was
given to me with the computer.
Post by VanguardLH
https://support.toshiba.com/support/viewContentDetail?contentId=2737864
A special-use partition is created on the HDD to perform the factory
default installation. It is either an image to lay back on the HDD or
an installer to perform a default install. If the laptop didn't come
with recovery CDs, the manual probably mentioned how to create them
after you received the prebuilt computer.
How can I do anything useful with the info on this screen?
Wolf K
2018-03-13 02:42:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HB
Post by VanguardLH
With the battery in, laptop won't boot. With the battery out, the
laptop boots. That how it appears you describe the problem. Did I get
your description wrong? If not, seems pretty simple diagnosis: it's the
battery.
It wont boot into windows either way. It turns on and will bring up text
windows/screens by tapping F keys. That may be the misunderstanding. But
tonight, afrer reinstalling the battery and HD, I hit F12 and a menu of some
kind came up. There are 6 tabs. None give me the choice to get into Safe
Mode. It seems to only be info on what's on the PC such as memory size to
saving changes on exit. I have no idea what to do on any of these screens.
They're called Main, Security, Power management, Advanced,Boot and Exit.
Under the screen is a strip with choices such as F5 & 6 Change values
(whatever they are). F9 Setup Defaults (meaningless to me.) How can this be
helpful - any ideas?
Well, all those options are served up by BIOS (_not_ Windows!). BIOS is
the built-in program that starts when you turn on the power. It has two
jobs: first, to find the boot loader and load (start) the operating
system (Windows in your case). Second, if interrupted, to offer options
for miscellaneous diagnostic tests and hardware settings. That's what
you saw when you hit F2 (or F8). F12 switches to another options screen.

BIOS is running the way it should. But it is unable to start the
bootloader on the C: drive (the hard disk). That means one of two things:
a) The Master Boot Record on the HDD is corrupt or missing. But in that
case, you should see a message saying BIOS "can't find ntloader".

b) BIOS can't access the HDD. There are several possible reasons for
this. The worst case from your POV is that the HDD is toast. In that
case, rescuing the laptop would entail opening up the laptop and
replacing the HDD, not a simple job.

A more favourable (cheaper) possibility is that the HDD connector is
bad, and reseating it would fix the problem. Like changing the drive
itself, that would entail opening up the laptop.

You may be able to find out if BIOS can access the HDD. One of the
Diagnostic screen should include s a test of the HDD. Look for anything
that looks like it will test or scan the HDD, and run that. If that test
or scan fails, BIOS cannot access the HDD.
Post by HB
Post by VanguardLH
Doesn't the laptop's own boot screen offer a choice to hit a special key
or key combo the restore the computer to factory-time setup?
If by "boot screen" you mean the one shown when Windows boots, then it's
npot accessible, since the laptop isn't booting.
Post by HB
At the very top it says, "InsydeH20 Setup Utility."
The Boot tab is mostly techie speak so I have no idea what to do with this.
HDD/SD
FDD
CD/DVD
LAN
USB > It says "Select the priority for booting the computer."
Those are all possible locations for the bootloader. Eg HDD/SD is the
hard drive (If the boot is successful, you see it as the C: drive)

Boot priority just means the order in which BIOS will try to find the
bootloader.

FDD is a floppy disk drive, which the laptop doesn't have. It's left
over from the that desktops came with floppy disk drives. Not re;levant
for you.

CD/DVD is obvious.

LAN is the Local Area Network. This is for desktops that are booted from
the network. Not relevant for you

USB is a USB connected drive. It could be USB memory stick or an
external hard drive.
Post by HB
So which one do I select?
CD/DVD. The computer will try that first, then the other options in
sequence. It's actually doing that, starting with the HDD, but it looks
like can't find a boot loader.
Post by HB
I don't have a CD or DVD for this laptop. None was
given to me with the computer.
[...]
Post by HB
How can I do anything useful with the info on this screen?
You could run a Linux from the CD/DVD drive, which would IMO would
merely confirm that the HDD is bad.

So, based on what you've described, IMO the HDD is the problem and you
have to decide whether it's worth your money to have the laptop repaired.

Best wishes,
--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"The next conference for the time travel design team will be held two
weeks ago."
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-03-13 06:10:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message <0UGpC.224306$***@fx37.iad>, Wolf K
<***@sympatico.ca> writes:
[]
Post by Wolf K
b) BIOS can't access the HDD. There are several possible reasons for
this. The worst case from your POV is that the HDD is toast. In that
case, rescuing the laptop would entail opening up the laptop and
replacing the HDD, not a simple job.
A more favourable (cheaper) possibility is that the HDD connector is
bad, and reseating it would fix the problem. Like changing the drive
itself, that would entail opening up the laptop.
Not necessarily: it depends whether the laptop has an HD hatch. A lot
do, i. e. a panel which can be removed (sometimes needing a _few_ screws
to be removed, granted) to access the HD, but not requiring the whole
back to be taken off, which I agree is decidedly fiddly. (On this laptop
- also a Toshiba - one of the screws for the HD flap is actually under
the RAM flap, but if this is the case it should be fairly obvious.)
Post by Wolf K
You may be able to find out if BIOS can access the HDD. One of the
Diagnostic screen should include s a test of the HDD. Look for anything
that looks like it will test or scan the HDD, and run that. If that
test or scan fails, BIOS cannot access the HDD.
Though I think BIOS functions to _test_ the HD are rare.
[]
Post by Wolf K
Post by HB
I don't have a CD or DVD for this laptop. None was
given to me with the computer.
You may be able to download-and-burn, or borrow, one that will get as
far as the repair console. Only of use if the HD is working OK and just
files have been corrupted, though.
[]
Post by Wolf K
You could run a Linux from the CD/DVD drive, which would IMO would
merely confirm that the HDD is bad.
So, based on what you've described, IMO the HDD is the problem and you
have to decide whether it's worth your money to have the laptop
repaired.
Best wishes,
I'd say there's still a strong chance that it's just file corruption
(or, if you're _very_ lucky, the HD has just come disconnected, by
sliding around in its slot).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

_____
___ |[]|_n_n_I_c
|___||__|###|____)
O-O--O-O+++--O-O
HB
2018-03-13 07:28:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I'd say there's still a strong chance that it's just file corruption (or,
if you're _very_ lucky, the HD has just come disconnected, by sliding
around in its slot).
- Snips -

It seats snugly. I can't see any way it could move short of falling off a
roof.
--
_____
___ |[]|_n_n_I_c
|___||__|###|____)
O-O--O-O+++--O-O
HB
2018-03-13 06:25:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Wolf K
Post by HB
Post by VanguardLH
With the battery in, laptop won't boot. With the battery out, the
laptop boots. That how it appears you describe the problem. Did I get
your description wrong? If not, seems pretty simple diagnosis: it's the
battery.
It wont boot into windows either way. It turns on and will bring up text
windows/screens by tapping F keys. That may be the misunderstanding. But
tonight, afrer reinstalling the battery and HD, I hit F12 and a menu of some
kind came up. There are 6 tabs. None give me the choice to get into Safe
Mode. It seems to only be info on what's on the PC such as memory size to
saving changes on exit. I have no idea what to do on any of these screens.
They're called Main, Security, Power management, Advanced,Boot and Exit.
Under the screen is a strip with choices such as F5 & 6 Change values
(whatever they are). F9 Setup Defaults (meaningless to me.) How can this be
helpful - any ideas?
Well, all those options are served up by BIOS (_not_ Windows!). BIOS is
the built-in program that starts when you turn on the power. It has two
jobs: first, to find the boot loader and load (start) the operating system
(Windows in your case). Second, if interrupted, to offer options for
miscellaneous diagnostic tests and hardware settings. That's what you saw
when you hit F2 (or F8). F12 switches to another options screen.
BIOS is running the way it should. But it is unable to start the
a) The Master Boot Record on the HDD is corrupt or missing. But in that
case, you should see a message saying BIOS "can't find ntloader".
b) BIOS can't access the HDD. There are several possible reasons for this.
The worst case from your POV is that the HDD is toast. In that case,
rescuing the laptop would entail opening up the laptop and replacing the
HDD, not a simple job.
A more favourable (cheaper) possibility is that the HDD connector is bad,
and reseating it would fix the problem. Like changing the drive itself,
that would entail opening up the laptop.
You may be able to find out if BIOS can access the HDD. One of the
Diagnostic screen should include s a test of the HDD. Look for anything
that looks like it will test or scan the HDD, and run that. If that test
or scan fails, BIOS cannot access the HDD.
Noting about any tests on any of the 6 tabs. Googling InsydeH20 Setup
Utility will show you the tabs I mean. On the Toshiba they don't have the
same text/chices. It's somewhat different than what you see there.
Post by Wolf K
Post by HB
Post by VanguardLH
Doesn't the laptop's own boot screen offer a choice to hit a special key
or key combo the restore the computer to factory-time setup?
If by "boot screen" you mean the one shown when Windows boots, then it's
npot accessible, since the laptop isn't booting.
Post by HB
At the very top it says, "InsydeH20 Setup Utility."
The Boot tab is mostly techie speak so I have no idea what to do with this.
HDD/SD
FDD
CD/DVD
LAN
USB > It says "Select the priority for booting the computer."
Those are all possible locations for the bootloader. Eg HDD/SD is the hard
drive (If the boot is successful, you see it as the C: drive)
Boot priority just means the order in which BIOS will try to find the
bootloader.
FDD is a floppy disk drive, which the laptop doesn't have. It's left over
from the that desktops came with floppy disk drives. Not re;levant for
you.
CD/DVD is obvious.
LAN is the Local Area Network. This is for desktops that are booted from
the network. Not relevant for you
USB is a USB connected drive. It could be USB memory stick or an external
hard drive.
Post by HB
So which one do I select?
CD/DVD. The computer will try that first, then the other options in
sequence. It's actually doing that, starting with the HDD, but it looks
like can't find a boot loader.
Post by HB
I don't have a CD or DVD for this laptop. None was
given to me with the computer.
[...]
Post by HB
How can I do anything useful with the info on this screen?
You could run a Linux from the CD/DVD drive, which would IMO would merely
confirm that the HDD is bad.
So, based on what you've described, IMO the HDD is the problem and you
have to decide whether it's worth your money to have the laptop repaired.
Something to think about.... thanks.
Post by Wolf K
Best wishes,
--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"The next conference for the time travel design team will be held two
weeks ago."
Wolf K
2018-03-13 13:31:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HB
Post by HB
Post by VanguardLH
With the battery in, laptop won't boot. With the battery out, the
laptop boots. That how it appears you describe the problem. Did I get
your description wrong? If not, seems pretty simple diagnosis: it's the
battery.
It wont boot into windows either way. It turns on and will bring up text
windows/screens by tapping F keys. That may be the misunderstanding. But
tonight, afrer reinstalling the battery and HD, I hit F12 and a menu of some
kind came up. There are 6 tabs. None give me the choice to get into Safe
Mode. It seems to only be info on what's on the PC such as memory size to
saving changes on exit. I have no idea what to do on any of these screens.
They're called Main, Security, Power management, Advanced,Boot and Exit.
Under the screen is a strip with choices such as F5 & 6 Change values
(whatever they are). F9 Setup Defaults (meaningless to me.) How can this be
helpful - any ideas?
Well, all those options are served up by BIOS (_not_ Windows!). BIOS is
the built-in program that starts when you turn on the power. It has two
jobs: first, to find the boot loader and load (start) the operating system
(Windows in your case). Second, if interrupted, to offer options for
miscellaneous diagnostic tests and hardware settings. That's what you saw
when you hit F2 (or F8). F12 switches to another options screen.
BIOS is running the way it should. But it is unable to start the
a) The Master Boot Record on the HDD is corrupt or missing. But in that
case, you should see a message saying BIOS "can't find ntloader".
b) BIOS can't access the HDD. There are several possible reasons for this.
The worst case from your POV is that the HDD is toast. In that case,
rescuing the laptop would entail opening up the laptop and replacing the
HDD, not a simple job.
A more favourable (cheaper) possibility is that the HDD connector is bad,
and reseating it would fix the problem. Like changing the drive itself,
that would entail opening up the laptop.
You may be able to find out if BIOS can access the HDD. One of the
Diagnostic screen should include s a test of the HDD. Look for anything
that looks like it will test or scan the HDD, and run that. If that test
or scan fails, BIOS cannot access the HDD.
Noting about any tests on any of the 6 tabs. Googling InsydeH20 Setup
Utility will show you the tabs I mean. On the Toshiba they don't have the
same text/chices. It's somewhat different than what you see there.
OK, I think you're seeing the setup utility that you mentioned earlier.
It's apparently part of the BIOS on the Toshiba laptop. Same difference,
IOW.

Bottom line: You can't start Windows from any of those tabs.

So the choice is stark: Dump the machine, or take it to a tech who can
fix it. I know it feels bad to dump a machine, I've had to do it twice.
Both times, I took it to the local tech shop, in case they could use
some of the parts. I don't know if they ever did.

Best wishes,
--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"The next conference for the time travel design team will be held two
weeks ago."
Paul
2018-03-13 14:32:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Wolf K
You could run a Linux from the CD/DVD drive, which would IMO would merely
confirm that the HDD is bad.
Booting a Linux LiveCD confirms it's a computer
and that it mostly works.

The speed with which it boots, is also a testament to
the performance level.

The fact it's got an InsydeH2O BIOS tells me it's
a relatively new machine (it would be about the same
as my [gifted] laptop from a relative), and mine runs
fine with Win7 or Win10 on it.

Once the machine boots with a DVD like that, a machine
of that vintage can also boot from a USB stick. The current
generation of DVDs for Linux, you can "dd" them right onto
a USB stick and boot from it. USB sticks boot faster than
DVDs, because there is little (1 millisecond) seek time,
compared to 110 milliseconds to move the heads on a DVD
drive.

The purpose of booting the first time with a DVD, is just
to see everything works well enough to boot. But you can
also easily download a Linux ISO and use "dd" to transfer
it to a USB stick. And skip the DVD stage altogether.

The downloads might be on the order of 1.5GB or so.
You can use the public library Internet to download, if
your home Internet isn't suited to this.

http://mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/linuxmint/stable/17.1/linuxmint-17.1-xfce-32bit.iso

This is a port of "dd" for Windows, called dd.exe .

http://www.chrysocome.net/dd

On your working computer (where you will be downloading and preparing a USB stick),
you run commands like this from an Administrator (elevated) Command Prompt window.

cd /d %userprofile%\Downloads

dir dd.exe linuxmint-17.1-xfce-32bit.iso <=== prove the files are where they're
supposed to be. The commands won't
run unless you can see the files now.

dd --list <=== this dumps names for the drives on the system
<=== the order is the same order as Disk Management
<=== do *not* issue the next command unless you
are sure you understand where the USB stick is
in the namespace. The Harddisk2 in the next command
is an example, and might not be what yours needs.
"dd" could ruin the OS drive, if "mis-aimed".
"dd" is *destructive*, use with care.

dd if=linuxmint-17.1-xfce-32bit.iso of=\\?\Device\Harddisk2\Partition0

This technique works for any modern Linux distro that offers
what are called "hybrid discs". The ISO image has more than
one file system overlaid, and also has multiple partitions,
which support both legacy BIOS and UEFI BIOS booting.

Since the laptop is relatively modern, it's likely to have
enough RAM to boot Linux. Older machines, we'd have to be a
lot more careful. When I booted up a TUV4X here, with an S370
socket processor in it, I had to put the max possible RAM in it
(3x512MB) to make lots of room to run a browser and so on :-)

In terms of speed, there isn't too much difference between Linux
and Windows. And part of this is due to ancient video hardware
in the machines, not providing the "acceleration" the desktop
needs. The software then "leans on the CPU" to make up the
difference. The root cause, is the assumption that all computers
have good graphics. Then when modern OSes run on crummy graphics,
they end up a lot slower because of this "bad assumption".

Summary : the above is some fun you can have with an old
computer you'd otherwise just dump in the garbage...
You'll need a USB stick, at least 4GB in size, to hold
the relatively small ISO file, if you want to boot from USB.
Walmart usually has 32GB sticks for around $20 or so, if you
don't have a pile of USB sticks sitting around for this.
This style of usage, doesn't allow that particular USB stick,
to be used to store other (random) files. The stick must be
erased before being reused for other purposes (dd can erase
it too, by writing zeros over part of it).

*******

When Linux is running, you can use "smartmontools" to list the
health info for the hard drive.

sudo smartctl -a /dev/sdc

ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 092 092 036 Pre-fail Always - 334

Normally, the value of that one is 0, but my sample disk is a bit sick,
and the life has dropped from 100 to 92. The drive is "dead" if
the value field hits 36 (same as Threshold). It won't really
be dead, but it'll be pretty damn slow. This shows the service
history of that sample disk, showing it's going bad, but it's
decided to go bad very slowly. My purpose in showing this table,
is to show how all the columns function as the errors grow.
Some drives use a normalized value of 200 instead of 100,
and they do that just to annoy people :-)

Current Worst Threshold Data Status
Reallocated Sector Count 100 100 36 0 OK \
Reallocated Sector Count 100 100 36 57 OK \___ These grew in
Reallocated Sector Count 98 98 36 104 OK / a couple days
Reallocated Sector Count 92 92 36 334 OK ----- Two years later...

The smartctl program doesn't offer a lot of editorial comments,
nor does it pass judgment as such (it'll say a sick drive is "OK").
Which is a shame, as end-users need advice, but it's also safer
for the developer to not "over-stretch" their area of expertise.
SMART isn't a wonderful system, but it's all we've got, when
figuring out if a hard drive is sick or not. It's better than
nothing. It's better than a coin toss. I stopped regularly
using that hard drive, when it hit 104 errors, but that
was because the error rate increase was looking pretty bad.

This is a picture of the that hard drive, in real life.

Loading Image...

Paul
VanguardLH
2018-03-13 03:09:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
VanguardLH wrote ...
Post by VanguardLH
With the battery in, laptop won't boot. With the battery out, the
laptop boots. That how it appears you describe the problem. Did I get
your description wrong? If not, seems pretty simple diagnosis: it's the
battery.
It wont boot into windows either way. It turns on and will bring up text
windows/screens by tapping F keys. That may be the misunderstanding.
Mentioned in another reply: remove the hard disk and see if the laptop
will boot. It should get to its POST screen and then report there is no
bootable media or OS not found. See if the *hardware* will boot up okay
BEFORE trying to troubleshoot why Windows won't start.
tonight, afrer reinstalling the battery and HD, I hit F12 and a menu of some
kind came up. There are 6 tabs. None give me the choice to get into Safe
Mode. It seems to only be info on what's on the PC such as memory size to
saving changes on exit.
They're called Main, Security, Power management, Advanced,Boot and Exit.
You went into the BIOS config screens. Looks like the laptop is
working. The problem is with Windows or the hard disk where it is
installed. Could be Windows is fouled. Could be you have a bad hard
drive. Insert the Windows install (or any other bootable disc) into the
CD drive, reboot, and select to boot from the CD drive. Does that work?

If saving what is on the hard disk is not critical (i.e., you're willing
to start fresh), boot the laptop and use its recovery option to restore
the laptop back to its factory-time state. See:

https://support.toshiba.com/sscontent?docId=98082971
Post by VanguardLH
Doesn't the laptop's own boot screen offer a choice to hit a special key
or key combo the restore the computer to factory-time setup?
At the very top it says, "InsydeH20 Setup Utility."
The Boot tab is mostly techie speak so I have no idea what to do with this.
HDD/SD
FDD
CD/DVD
LAN
USB
It says "Select the priority for booting the computer."
So which one do I select? I don't have a CD or DVD for this laptop. None was
given to me with the computer.
You are already past the POST screen and the BIOS is asking which device
you want to boot from. Windows is on the HDD. The list is the boot
order for the device types.
Post by VanguardLH
https://support.toshiba.com/support/viewContentDetail?contentId=2737864
A special-use partition is created on the HDD to perform the factory
default installation. It is either an image to lay back on the HDD or
an installer to perform a default install. If the laptop didn't come
with recovery CDs, the manual probably mentioned how to create them
after you received the prebuilt computer.
How can I do anything useful with the info on this screen?
Step 4 is where you decide whether or not to perform a recovery (to lay
a factory image onto the hard drive).
HB
2018-03-13 07:22:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by VanguardLH
VanguardLH wrote ...
Post by VanguardLH
With the battery in, laptop won't boot. With the battery out, the
laptop boots. That how it appears you describe the problem. Did I get
your description wrong? If not, seems pretty simple diagnosis: it's the
battery.
It wont boot into windows either way. It turns on and will bring up text
windows/screens by tapping F keys. That may be the misunderstanding.
Mentioned in another reply: remove the hard disk and see if the laptop
will boot. It should get to its POST screen and then report there is no
bootable media or OS not found. See if the *hardware* will boot up okay
BEFORE trying to troubleshoot why Windows won't start.
tonight, afrer reinstalling the battery and HD, I hit F12 and a menu of some
kind came up. There are 6 tabs. None give me the choice to get into Safe
Mode. It seems to only be info on what's on the PC such as memory size to
saving changes on exit.
They're called Main, Security, Power management, Advanced,Boot and Exit.
You went into the BIOS config screens. Looks like the laptop is
working. The problem is with Windows or the hard disk where it is
installed. Could be Windows is fouled. Could be you have a bad hard
drive. Insert the Windows install (or any other bootable disc) into the
CD drive, reboot, and select to boot from the CD drive. Does that work?
If saving what is on the hard disk is not critical (i.e., you're willing
to start fresh), boot the laptop and use its recovery option to restore
https://support.toshiba.com/sscontent?docId=98082971
Quote from step 4: "Press and hold down the 0 (zero) key on the keyboard
while powering on the computer/tablet. Release it when the recovery warning
screen appears."

Doing this brings no screen up, just causes a loud rapid beeping. So can't
get any further.
Post by VanguardLH
Post by VanguardLH
Doesn't the laptop's own boot screen offer a choice to hit a special key
or key combo the restore the computer to factory-time setup?
No.
Post by VanguardLH
At the very top it says, "InsydeH20 Setup Utility."
The Boot tab is mostly techie speak so I have no idea what to do with this.
HDD/SD
FDD
CD/DVD
LAN
USB
It says "Select the priority for booting the computer."
So which one do I select? I don't have a CD or DVD for this laptop. None was
given to me with the computer.
You are already past the POST screen and the BIOS is asking which device
you want to boot from. Windows is on the HDD. The list is the boot
order for the device types.
When I chose HDD I got this: "A disk read error occured. Press Ctrl+alt+Del
to restart." Did that and got the blank screen with the blinking - in the
corner.

BTW, thought the battery was supposedly dead, not charging, the PC still
starts when unplugged. These screens appear and I can hear the HD come to
life. So I don't think that info was correct it was showing before going
dark. There is life in it.
Post by VanguardLH
Post by VanguardLH
https://support.toshiba.com/support/viewContentDetail?contentId=2737864
A special-use partition is created on the HDD to perform the factory
default installation. It is either an image to lay back on the HDD or
an installer to perform a default install. If the laptop didn't come
with recovery CDs, the manual probably mentioned how to create them
after you received the prebuilt computer.
How can I do anything useful with the info on this screen?
Step 4 is where you decide whether or not to perform a recovery (to lay
a factory image onto the hard drive).
Quote from step 4: "Press and hold down the 0 (zero) key on the keyboard
while powering on the computer/tablet. Release it when the recovery warning
screen appears."

Doing this brings no recovery screen up, just causes a loud rapid beeping.
So I can't get any further. I have no bootable emergency discs. They were
lost in the move. Maybe it doesn't matter because they didn't work on the 2
PCs I had in the past with this same problem. A PC gets turned on and all
that appeared would be a blank screen with the blinker. Now when I see this
blinker in the upper left hand corner, I feel it's most likely the death of
that PC.
Wolf K
2018-03-13 13:40:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-03-13 03:22, HB wrote:
[...]
Post by HB
When I chose HDD I got this: "A disk read error occured. Press Ctrl+alt+Del
to restart." Did that and got the blank screen with the blinking - in the
corner.
[...]

I think that's definitive. There are two possibilities:

a) The Master Boot Record (MBR) is corrupted. (BIOS looks there to find
the location of the program that loads Windows.) If so, you can fix the
machine with a Windows 7 install/repair disk (DVD).

b) The HDD is broken. (The fact that it starts spinning doesn't mean
that it's working as it should.) If so, replace the HDD, and install Win7.

Best wishes.
--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"The next conference for the time travel design team will be held two
weeks ago."
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-03-13 16:08:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HB
VanguardLH wrote ...
[]
Post by HB
Post by VanguardLH
Doesn't the laptop's own boot screen offer a choice to hit a special key
or key combo the restore the computer to factory-time setup?
No.
Don't worry: the option to restore to factory settings *from the BIOS
boot screen* isn't common. (I don't think _I_ have ever seen it, though
from what some have said here some Dells might have it - though as they
described it, that'd still need a working HD.)
[]
Post by HB
When I chose HDD I got this: "A disk read error occured. Press Ctrl+alt+Del
Does _sound_ like the HD isn't well. (Though _could_ still be boot
sector [part of the disc] corruption, which is fixable.)
Post by HB
to restart." Did that and got the blank screen with the blinking - in the
corner.
BTW, thought the battery was supposedly dead, not charging, the PC still
starts when unplugged. These screens appear and I can hear the HD come to
life. So I don't think that info was correct it was showing before going
dark. There is life in it.
Good to know. And sorry, I didn't register what you said there: ignore
my **Q1** in my last post, as you've told us you can hear the HD spin
up. (As long as you're sure it was/is the HD not the fan, that is!)
[]
Post by HB
So I can't get any further. I have no bootable emergency discs. They were
lost in the move. Maybe it doesn't matter because they didn't work on the 2
Not having them isn't a _huge_ problem - you can _make_ them on the PC
you're talking to us on, assuming it has a suitable burner drive. They
might not be the exact right ones for the poorly PC, but we should be
able to get somewhere using them. BUT, since you can easily take out the
HD, diagnosing it on another PC (and possibly even repairing it there,
if the problem _is_ only file corruption) is probably an easier first
thing to do.
Post by HB
PCs I had in the past with this same problem. A PC gets turned on and all
that appeared would be a blank screen with the blinker. Now when I see this
blinker in the upper left hand corner, I feel it's most likely the death of
that PC.
We don't give up that easily (-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Veni Vidi Vacuum [I came, I saw, It sucked] - ***@saslimited.demon.co.uk, 1998
VanguardLH
2018-03-13 20:07:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HB
When I chose HDD I got this: "A disk read error occured. Press Ctrl+alt+Del
to restart." Did that and got the blank screen with the blinking - in the
Since you gave no mention of the model number, it is possible what I
happened to find doing a vague search does not apply to your particular
model. You need to get the model number and do searches on "toshiba
<model> recovery" to find articles that match on your model.

You seem unable to interpret the underside label on the laptop case.
Take a photo of it, upload to online storage, give a URL to that photo,
and let others see what model you have. Until then, I can only find
Toshiba instructions on some of their models saying how to perform a
recovery [re]install of the factory-time image onto the HDD.'

Did I miss where you removed the HDD and then determined how far the
laptop will boot? You could also record the boot sequence using your
smartphone (assuming you have one) or a digital camera (another
assumption) to upload it so we can see what is happening during the boot
sequence.

Also, you already found out how to get into the BIOS config screens.
From your description, it appears it came configured to show a splash
screen on boot. That gets in the way of seeing what is happening during
the boot sequence. Go into the BIOS to disable the splash screen. Then
you can see the POST screen and what shows up afterward. Again, with
the model number, there's no way to lookup what the boot sequence should
look like on your particular model.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-03-13 06:00:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message <p87b11$1qp$***@dont-email.me>, HB <***@fake.com> writes:
[]
Post by HB
kind came up. There are 6 tabs. None give me the choice to get into Safe
Mode. It seems to only be info on what's on the PC such as memory size to
saving changes on exit. I have no idea what to do on any of these screens.
They're called Main, Security, Power management, Advanced,Boot and Exit.
That's the BIOS - loads from ROM, even if no HD is fitted or it's dead.
Post by HB
Under the screen is a strip with choices such as F5 & 6 Change values
(whatever they are). F9 Setup Defaults (meaningless to me.) How can this be
helpful - any ideas?
You move around the menus with the arrow keys. To change the value of
the parameter that is currently highlighted, you use F5/F6. F9 puts all
such values back to their default (_usually_ this means a set of values
which may not give the best performance the machine can achieve, but
which are likely to work in most circumstances; its main function is for
when the user thinks "I've changed something and the computer is now not
working/behaving erratically, but I can't remember what I've changed").
Post by HB
Post by VanguardLH
Doesn't the laptop's own boot screen offer a choice to hit a special key
or key combo the restore the computer to factory-time setup?
I think the hard drive would have to be working - and able to boot - to
get to that option. Not necessarily, but usually.
Post by HB
At the very top it says, "InsydeH20 Setup Utility."
The Boot tab is mostly techie speak so I have no idea what to do with this.
HDD/SD
FDD
CD/DVD
LAN
USB
It says "Select the priority for booting the computer."
By fiddling with the keys, you can usually change the order of that list
(there might be a "move up/move down" key pair); it determines where the
computer looks for something bootable. The only ones you're likely to be
able to use are HDD, CD, and USB.
Post by HB
So which one do I select? I don't have a CD or DVD for this laptop. None was
given to me with the computer.
I presume it does have a CD _drive_ though.
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

_____
___ |[]|_n_n_I_c
|___||__|###|____)
O-O--O-O+++--O-O
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-03-11 12:38:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HB
Post by VanguardLH
Post by HB
When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine, was
shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black screen
with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is
supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a screen
to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with 6
tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe
Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know how
to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7?
Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new. I
hate to recycle it.
I sympathise. I hate to give up on a machine - often to well beyond its
worth, if I were to put a price on my time. I just don't like scrapping
things. (I certainly don't smash them up.)
Post by HB
Post by VanguardLH
Post by HB
I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it was
almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter.
Some laptops won't run without a main battery installed. However, if
the main battery is dead, the laptop may not come up even when the
laptop's power adapter is plugged into A/C power. I'm not sure how the
circuitry is designed but I have seen some where the battery was used as
a capacitor in the power logic. If voltage regulation relies on a
I don't think those are common now though.
Post by HB
Post by VanguardLH
working main battery, try removing it. How old is the battery? Sounds
like it is too old and you need to replace it.
I don't _think_ your fault _is_ the battery, but _have_ you yet tried
booting it with the external power connected and the battery physically
removed? It's an easy thing to try.
Post by HB
It's the original battery. Was in the LT when relative gave it to me. BTW,
all it says on the Toshiba is Satalite. It's 64-bit.
Post by VanguardLH
F8 brings up the boot menu, not necessarily Windows safe mode. Once in
But even that boot menu is part of Windows, or at least part of what is
loaded from disc. Other options are other keys depending on model, and
_are_ part of the machine - the BIOS. (A long time ago, it was almost
always the delete key; then often one of the F keys. When I wanted to
change boot order recently on this Toshiba Protégé [to make an image], I
tried lots, and eventually had to download the manual, which told me it
was F12 _while_ turning the power on.) I think your system is not
getting as far as booting from disc as far as the boot menu, though why
that is we haven't determined yet.
[]
Post by HB
That's what I'm familiar with. Never saw that window yesterday. I finally
got a screen asking to insert the original CD. None exists so I guess I'm
out of options.
If it got that far, that message came from something loaded from the HD,
so the HD is at least working some of the time. It also _sounds_ like
the problem might be entirely software, i. e. some important OS file has
or files have been corrrupted. The call for the original CD means it was
going to lead you through recovery, which, depending on what has been
corrupted, might still be achievable with _an_ install CD rather than
_the_ official one; you might still be able to download one totally
appropriate to your machine, or more likely I'm sure you can get hold of
one (either by download or other means - even borrowing one) that would
_work_ even if not a total match.
Post by HB
Post by VanguardLH
However, that boot menu is presented by the kernel loader of Windows.
When you see the Advanced Options boot menu, you're already in Windows.
If Windows is corrupted, you might not get the F8 boot menu.
[]
Post by HB
The better half just said to remove the HD, give it a few good whacks with
the sledge hammer and dump them in the electronic recycle bin at the
Ouch. Don't give up yet.
Post by HB
dumpsters. I often take her advice. I appreciate everyone's time trying to
help.
I still think it's likely to be RAM, HD, or just corruption.

RAM - you were going to try reseating, cleaning, or ideally (but only
possible if there are more than one module) trying only one out of two.
If you want to _thouroughly_ check the RAM, it's easy, just takes time
(you don't have to be there though): if you download the best-known
test, which I think is called memtest86, it will actually fit on a
floppy (though as you are unlikely to have one can be put on a CD); this
is actually bootable from the floppy or CD, so will run without a hard
drive present at all: it is its own OS - it boots itself, then offers
you various tests on the RAM, which can run once or continuously; people
usually say run them for several hours or overnight. Since your fault
seems to be coming up fairly rapidly, I don't _think_ you'd need to do
_that_ thorough a test, though it might be worth doing more than the
minimum, as Windows may use the RAM in different ways.

Personally, I don't _think_ your RAM has "gone bad"; I've never had this
happen, though I certainly believe it can, and others here including
Paul have. I _have_ had them work loose, or get dirt in the contacts,
though.

HD: This is in some ways the most worrying possibility, as if it _is_
faulty, it's (especially from what you've described so far) likely to be
intermittent. Unless you're unlucky enough to have one of those laptops
where there isn't a cover over the HD, then take off the cover over the
HD, and listen - and perhaps feel - whether it's operating oddly (making
worrying noises, or vibrating oddly - or, sometimes not spinning up at
all). Difficult to tell by sound and feel, though, especially if you
haven't another machine to compare it to.

Depending on what you decide, and you may do the other things first,
other steps would be to take it out and connect it to another machine:
you're unlikely to have any other machine you can put it into as a
secondary drive (don't put it into a different machine as primary drive
and try to boot from it, that would likely corrupt things somewhat), so
that means either a desktop (best as you'd be going direct to the SATA),
or via some sort of USB interface. (Doesn't have to be a housing -
though the cheapest of those are cheaper than a "cable" or dock! - it
can be, indeed, a "cable" [these actually aren't just wires but have
electronics in them] or a dock.) _Ideally_, one with a separate power
supply, though housings may not have those. First, I'd then interrogate
the SMART data - that can be interrogated via a USB interface; there are
lots of utilities that will interrogate it (I use
https://www.passmark.com/products/diskcheckup.htm). Ideally, do it two
or more times, separated by a while, as you'll then see how things are
changing, if any are. (Several of the utilities, including the one I
use, will give you a predicted failure date if one of the important
parameters is worsening, though in a very simplistic manner as they just
use a straight-line prediction of when it'll fall below permissible -
I've had predicted dates like 2037! But it's useful to be able to see if
the parameters are changing.) You can also do assorted tests: how well
these will work through a USB link is variable, but they won't usually
do any _harm_. HDTune (if it works) will give (dropping) spikes; if
these are in the same place on two or more runs, they suggest a bad
patch. (Though if only one or two and they're narrow, that _can_ mean
there are faults, but they're being handled by the drive's own handling
mechanism, and can be lived with if they don't get worse. But keep an
eye on.)

Corruption: if it's just corruption of some important file, the main
concern is _how_ it happened: your description _implies_ you didn't shut
down improperly. However, increasingly with each version of Windows
(updates etc.) these can happen. Provided it's _not_ due to an
intermittent hardware fault, I suspect it can be restored no problem; at
worst (or perhaps one could say, least effort beyond a point), that
might involve reinstallation of Windows (though if it comes to that, use
the various utilities around to extract the product keys etc. first, if
you haven't got them), but I suspect, with the knowledge of those here,
that it needn't come to that. Use of the Recovery Console (from a CD if
necessary) would _probably_ suffice. [I said provided it's not due to
intermittent hardware; of course, even if it _is_, it should be
recoverable, but if that's the cause, it'll happen again.]

I _suspect_ the most likely fault, based on what you've described so
far, is corruption of one or more important files, followed by a loose
or dirty connection at the RAM or HD.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Security is the perfect excuse to lock you out of your own computer.
- Mayayana in alt.windows7.general, 2015-12-4
VanguardLH
2018-03-11 18:09:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
VanguardLH wrote ...
Some laptops won't run without a [working] main battery installed.
I don't think those are common now though.
The OP isn't asking about recent hardware that is "common now". The OP
is asking about something that has sat in closet for many years while
its battery deteriorated and its CMOS battery died. Toshiba introduced
their Satellite family in the early 90's. As yet, we don't know what
model the OP has or its age.
If it got that far, that message came from something loaded from the HD,
so the HD is at least working some of the time. It also _sounds_ like
the problem might be entirely software, i. e. some important OS file has
or files have been corrrupted.
The HDD should be removable: open an access panel, remove a couple
screws (if used), and pull out the HDD. The laptop should boot to the
POST screen and then fail with a message saying the OS loader could not
be found. That would prove the laptop's hardware can do a cold boot.
Patrick
2018-03-11 21:17:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HB
When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine, was
shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black screen
with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is
supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a screen
to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with 6
tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe
Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know how
to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7?
Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new. I
hate to recycle it.
I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it was
almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter.
Does this look like the LapTop that you are refering to;

https://support.toshiba.com/support/modelHome?freeText=2743964
HB
2018-03-13 02:00:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Patrick
Post by HB
When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine, was
shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black screen
with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is
supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a screen
to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with 6
tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe
Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know how
to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7?
Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new. I
hate to recycle it.
I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it was
almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter.
Does this look like the LapTop that you are refering to;
https://support.toshiba.com/support/modelHome?freeText=2743964
This looks like it. Please see my reply to VanguardLH of 9:54 above.
Patrick
2018-03-13 15:40:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HB
Post by Patrick
Post by HB
When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine, was
shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black screen
with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is
supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a screen
to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with 6
tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe
Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know how
to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7?
Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new. I
hate to recycle it.
I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it was
almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter.
Does this look like the LapTop that you are refering to;
https://support.toshiba.com/support/modelHome?freeText=2743964
This looks like it. Please see my reply to VanguardLH of 9:54 above.
Does this possibly ring a bell? (I havn't been right through it myself yet);

https://www.justanswer.com/computer/486wm-apparently-toshiba-laptop-crashed-setup-utility.html

https://tinyurl.com/y9uku7nx
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