Discussion:
Toshiba W-7 went dark
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HB
2018-03-10 07:15:13 UTC
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When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine, was
shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black screen
with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is
supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a screen
to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with 6
tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe
Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know how
to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7?

Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new. I
hate to recycle it.

I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it was
almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-03-10 09:21:53 UTC
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Post by HB
When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine, was
shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black screen
with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is
supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a screen
to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with 6
tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe
Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know how
to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7?
Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new. I
hate to recycle it.
I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it was
almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter.
Safe Mode is part of Windows; the computer needs to be working even to
run that. (I. e. it's _not_ part of the computer.) Sounds to me as if
some part of the computer itself is not working: I'd have guessed the
hard drive, but the message suggests it might be the memory.

As an outside thing to try, but as it's easy to do: try physically
removing the battery, then seeing if it will boot; the non-charging
suggests the battery may have died; if it has, it _might_ have done so
in such a way that it's loading things excessively. Unlikely, but as I
say easy to try. (If system shows no sign of life at all with the
battery out, then the battery is OK, but the external power supply may
have died - does it have a light on it you can check? [Or have you a
voltmeter?] - or something in between: the power in socket, or its
solder connections, is a common culprit.)
If that proves not to make any difference, then in view of the message
about the memory, I'd _try_ removing and reseating that, in case it's
just not making proper contact: if still no, remove, clean its contacts,
and reseat. If still no good and there are more than one module, try
booting with just one then just the other.
Failing that, perhaps the same with the hard drive - I've had them just
slide out of contact.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Does my Bradshaw look big in this?
HB
2018-03-11 03:11:50 UTC
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Post by HB
When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine, was
shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black screen
with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is
supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a screen
to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with 6
tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe
Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know how
to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7?
Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new. I
hate to recycle it.
I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it was
almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter.
Safe Mode is part of Windows; the computer needs to be working even to run
that. (I. e. it's _not_ part of the computer.) Sounds to me as if some
part of the computer itself is not working: I'd have guessed the hard
drive, but the message suggests it might be the memory.
It did a memory check and found it was OK.
As an outside thing to try, but as it's easy to do: try physically
removing the battery, then seeing if it will boot; the non-charging
suggests the battery may have died; if it has, it _might_ have done so in
such a way that it's loading things excessively. Unlikely, but as I say
easy to try. (If system shows no sign of life at all with the battery out,
then the battery is OK, but the external power supply may have died - does
it have a light on it you can check? [Or have you a voltmeter?] - or
something in between: the power in socket, or its solder connections, is a
common culprit.)
If that proves not to make any difference, then in view of the message
about the memory, I'd _try_ removing and reseating that, in case it's just
not making proper contact: if still no, remove, clean its contacts, and
reseat. If still no good and there are more than one module, try booting
with just one then just the other.
Will try this tonight. It's worth a try. Thanks.
Failing that, perhaps the same with the hard drive - I've had them just
slide out of contact.
--
Does my Bradshaw look big in this?
VanguardLH
2018-03-10 16:47:36 UTC
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Post by HB
When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine, was
shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black screen
with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is
supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a screen
to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with 6
tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe
Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know how
to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7?
Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new. I
hate to recycle it.
I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it was
almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter.
Some laptops won't run without a main battery installed. However, if
the main battery is dead, the laptop may not come up even when the
laptop's power adapter is plugged into A/C power. I'm not sure how the
circuitry is designed but I have seen some where the battery was used as
a capacitor in the power logic. If voltage regulation relies on a
working main battery, try removing it. How old is the battery? Sounds
like it is too old and you need to replace it.

F8 brings up the boot menu, not necessarily Windows safe mode. Once in
the startup menu, you decide how to continue booting. Safe mode is just
one of the boot options. F8 should bring up the boot menu which look
like this:

Loading Image...
(from https://neosmart.net/wiki/f8-key/)

However, that boot menu is presented by the kernel loader of Windows.
When you see the Advanced Options boot menu, you're already in Windows.
If Windows is corrupted, you might not get the F8 boot menu.

Toshiba is a brand name, not a model number. You never identified your
laptop. "LP" (laptop) doesn't identify WHAT you have. It's possible
Toshiba fucked up the F8 standard of getting into the Windows boot menu
and replaced F8's action to perform something else. Don't know because
you never identified the model for anyone else to go look in the manual
for that model.
HB
2018-03-11 03:42:44 UTC
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Post by VanguardLH
Post by HB
When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine, was
shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black screen
with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is
supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a screen
to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with 6
tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe
Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know how
to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7?
Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new. I
hate to recycle it.
I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it was
almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter.
Some laptops won't run without a main battery installed. However, if
the main battery is dead, the laptop may not come up even when the
laptop's power adapter is plugged into A/C power. I'm not sure how the
circuitry is designed but I have seen some where the battery was used as
a capacitor in the power logic. If voltage regulation relies on a
working main battery, try removing it. How old is the battery? Sounds
like it is too old and you need to replace it.
It's the original battery. Was in the LT when relative gave it to me. BTW,
all it says on the Toshiba is Satalite. It's 64-bit.
Post by VanguardLH
F8 brings up the boot menu, not necessarily Windows safe mode. Once in
the startup menu, you decide how to continue booting. Safe mode is just
one of the boot options. F8 should bring up the boot menu which look
https://neosmart.net/wiki/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2013/09/Windows-XP-Advanced-Boot-Options.png
(from https://neosmart.net/wiki/f8-key/)
That's what I'm familiar with. Never saw that window yesterday. I finally
got a screen asking to insert the original CD. None exists so I guess I'm
out of options.
Post by VanguardLH
However, that boot menu is presented by the kernel loader of Windows.
When you see the Advanced Options boot menu, you're already in Windows.
If Windows is corrupted, you might not get the F8 boot menu.
Toshiba is a brand name, not a model number. You never identified your
laptop. "LP" (laptop) doesn't identify WHAT you have. It's possible
Toshiba fucked up the F8 standard of getting into the Windows boot menu
and replaced F8's action to perform something else. Don't know because
you never identified the model for anyone else to go look in the manual
for that model.
Sorry, didn't think to add that. It's a Satellite.

The better half just said to remove the HD, give it a few good whacks with
the sledge hammer and dump them in the electronic recycle bin at the
dumpsters. I often take her advice. I appreciate everyone's time trying to
help.
VanguardLH
2018-03-11 05:00:43 UTC
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Post by HB
It's the original battery. Was in the LT when relative gave it to me. BTW,
all it says on the Toshiba is Satalite. It's 64-bit.
Doesn't answer the question "How old is the battery?".
Post by HB
Post by VanguardLH
Toshiba is a brand name, not a model number. You never identified your
laptop. "LP" (laptop) doesn't identify WHAT you have. It's possible
Toshiba fucked up the F8 standard of getting into the Windows boot menu
and replaced F8's action to perform something else. Don't know because
you never identified the model for anyone else to go look in the manual
for that model.
Sorry, didn't think to add that. It's a Satellite.
Satellite is a model family name. There are many models under that
family. Searching on "toshiba satellite battery" shows there are more
than one model for batteries that fit various Satellite models.

https://support.toshiba.com/sscontent?contentId=4007069
In that example, the part number is the model number.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0e5d2edfd0dcda35d538c2abb818da2d-c
In that example, the model number is overtly identified.

Loading Image...
In that example, the model number is right after "Satellite".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=url44LeZvgo
That's a video on where to look for the model family name and model
number.

You can also go to Toshiba's support page and enter in either the model
number or serial number, whichever is legible, to find out what you
have. I doubt a legitimate label from Toshiba on their laptop would
only say "Toshiba" and "Satellite". You need to look at the underside
label. If the underside label on the laptop has been obliterated to
become illegible that you cannot see or decipher a model or part number,
there should be a model number printed on the main battery that you can
use to search for a replacement battery. Unlike the label on the
underside of the laptop, the label on the battery gets no wear.

Batteries don't last forever even when properly stored. They're made of
chemicals that deteriorate. Is that old laptop not worth the $20 (*)
for a replacement battery?

(*) Per pricing at Walmart but only for some models of battery packs.
Post by HB
The better half just said to remove the HD, give it a few good whacks with
the sledge hammer and dump them in the electronic recycle bin at the
dumpsters. I often take her advice. I appreciate everyone's time trying to
help.
Some locales do not allow dumping electronics into their waste
facilities due to the lead in the solder. The unit may not be
recyclable if you smash it to pieces. Your locale may require you drop
it off at a hazardous waste recycle center, so don't smash it up. Or
drop it off at the Goodwill. Someone else might want it, wipe the
drive, and start with a fresh install of the OS. They might figure
getting a new battery makes for a cheap laptop.
HB
2018-03-11 10:11:08 UTC
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Post by VanguardLH
Post by HB
It's the original battery. Was in the LT when relative gave it to me.
BTW,
all it says on the Toshiba is Satalite. It's 64-bit.
Doesn't answer the question "How old is the battery?".
Post by HB
Post by VanguardLH
Toshiba is a brand name, not a model number. You never identified your
laptop. "LP" (laptop) doesn't identify WHAT you have. It's possible
Toshiba fucked up the F8 standard of getting into the Windows boot menu
and replaced F8's action to perform something else. Don't know because
you never identified the model for anyone else to go look in the manual
for that model.
Sorry, didn't think to add that. It's a Satellite.
Satellite is a model family name. There are many models under that
family. Searching on "toshiba satellite battery" shows there are more
than one model for batteries that fit various Satellite models.
https://support.toshiba.com/sscontent?contentId=4007069
In that example, the part number is the model number.
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0e5d2edfd0dcda35d538c2abb818da2d-c
In that example, the model number is overtly identified.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_Toshiba_C55_A_1D5_Typenschild_d38b165e44.jpg
In that example, the model number is right after "Satellite".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=url44LeZvgo
That's a video on where to look for the model family name and model
number.
You can also go to Toshiba's support page and enter in either the model
number or serial number, whichever is legible, to find out what you
have. I doubt a legitimate label from Toshiba on their laptop would
only say "Toshiba" and "Satellite". You need to look at the underside
label. If the underside label on the laptop has been obliterated to
become illegible that you cannot see or decipher a model or part number,
there should be a model number printed on the main battery that you can
use to search for a replacement battery. Unlike the label on the
underside of the laptop, the label on the battery gets no wear.
Batteries don't last forever even when properly stored. They're made of
chemicals that deteriorate. Is that old laptop not worth the $20 (*)
for a replacement battery?
(*) Per pricing at Walmart but only for some models of battery packs.
Post by HB
The better half just said to remove the HD, give it a few good whacks with
the sledge hammer and dump them in the electronic recycle bin at the
dumpsters. I often take her advice. I appreciate everyone's time trying to
help.
Some locales do not allow dumping electronics into their waste
facilities due to the lead in the solder. The unit may not be
recyclable if you smash it to pieces. Your locale may require you drop
it off at a hazardous waste recycle center, so don't smash it up. Or
drop it off at the Goodwill. Someone else might want it, wipe the
drive, and start with a fresh install of the OS. They might figure
getting a new battery makes for a cheap laptop.
On the back it just says Satellite followed by numbers. I don't know which
numbers would be relevant. This is the 1st number. C655D (or 0) S5063 system
unit.

What makes you think it's the battery since it worked fine without it as
long as it was plugged in? I had this same "going blank" with the blinking
"-" in the upper left hand corner before and they were desktops. I don't
remember the exact figures anymore but to fix them, according to the shops
where I lived at the time, wasn't worth what it would cost. An XP and a
Vista both went the same way.

It wasn't dead when plugged in as info came up when I tapped F2 or F8 but
not safe mode. Nothing that showed was familiar to me. A repair tech would
know what the info meant but it was Chinese to me. So it didn't need a
battery to run. I hate to toss it because it's like new. No one liked it
because it was slow. I was hoping to do a system recovery but couldn't get
into safe mode. I don't know any other way to do a system restore or
recovery.
Java Jive
2018-03-11 12:55:11 UTC
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On 11/03/2018 10:11, HB wrote:
(much snipped for brevity)

I think either I or Vanguard must be mistaken. He seems to be implying
that you were about to crunch the entire laptop with a sledge hammer,
whereas I think your other half meant just the hard drive, assuming it
was dead, did she not? This is a standard way of preventing personal
data being retrieved from binned HDs. Personally, I use a lump hammer
and a cold chisel on a concrete floor or step.

But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ...
Post by HB
On the back it just says Satellite followed by numbers. I don't know which
numbers would be relevant. This is the 1st number. C655D (or 0) S5063 system
unit.
I would suggest going to Toshiba's site and comparing what you have with
pictures of other models and their given designations one of which will
probably be close to the above. When dealing with problems or buying
spares, it is *nearly always important* to know exactly what it is that
you have.
Post by HB
What makes you think it's the battery since it worked fine without it as
long as it was plugged in? I had this same "going blank" with the blinking
"-" in the upper left hand corner before and they were desktops. I don't
remember the exact figures anymore but to fix them, according to the shops
where I lived at the time, wasn't worth what it would cost. An XP and a
Vista both went the same way.
Shops may be right in that it may not be commercially viable for them to
make certain types of repairs, or for you to pay them to do so, but
probably they also hope that they can persuade you to buy a replacement
from their stock, while some repairs, a new battery is a good example,
you can do yourself economically.
Post by HB
It wasn't dead when plugged in as info came up when I tapped F2 or F8 but
not safe mode. Nothing that showed was familiar to me. A repair tech would
know what the info meant but it was Chinese to me. So it didn't need a
battery to run. I hate to toss it because it's like new. No one liked it
because it was slow. I was hoping to do a system recovery but couldn't get
into safe mode. I don't know any other way to do a system restore or
recovery.
Most PCs can do some primitive diagnostics from the BIOS. The BIOS is
usually entered by pressing or holding down a particular key at a
particular stage in the boot process - favourites are <Del>, and
either <F10> or one of the other function keys across the top of the
keyboard. Again, going on to Toshiba's site and identifying the model
number may help you find out which key is the magic one. Some laptops,
such as Dells, can even perform full diagnostic tests by pressing a
different magic key, IIRC <F11>, but my memory for such intermittently
used information is getting a little dodgy these days, and anyway you
have a Toshiba, not a Dell, so it's likely to be a different key, if
full diagnostics are available at all.

You may find this page on my site, useful - although when written I
mostly had desktops in mind, since writing it I've repaired some laptops
as well, and while the details may be different, the principles are
exactly the same:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/PCHardware/HardwareFaults.html

In particular, either ...

If the laptop can boot from a USB stick, then download an Ubuntu or
other Linux distro - make sure you get a suitable one, 32-bit or
64-bit as appropriate - install it on a 2GB or larger USB stick,
depending on the size of the download, and see what messages Linux
generates as it tries to boot the PC. This may give you some useful
pointers to a hardware fault. If the PC boots from the stick, then you
should see your hard disk partition(s) as clickable icons down the left
hand side menu (in Ubuntu, other distros may be different, for example
the icons may be on the desktop). Try this and come back to us with a
description of what happens, particularly whether the PC boots at all,
whether Linux lets see your HD at all, and even the contents of it.

Or ...

If you can mount the HD in a desktop, do that and diagnose it from
there. If, as is likely with an old laptop, you have an IDE drive, you
would need a 2.5"-to-3.5" HD connector/convertor and attach the other
side of that to a spare IDE connector and power cable, whereas a SATA
drive can be attached directly to a standard SATA cable, but you may
need a convertor for the power cable - it all depends on the
particular combination of laptop HD and desktop motherboard and power
supply cables. Try this and do a chkdsk on the laptop's HD - you will
probably have to go into Disk Manager and give the laptop HD a drive
letter first.

Either way, you should be able to find out if the HD can be retrieved by
repartitioning and reinstalling, and the first should also suggest
whether and how much of the rest of the PC is functioning correctly.
HB
2018-03-12 21:26:38 UTC
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Post by Java Jive
(much snipped for brevity)
I think either I or Vanguard must be mistaken. He seems to be implying
that you were about to crunch the entire laptop with a sledge hammer,
whereas I think your other half meant just the hard drive, assuming it was
dead, did she not? This is a standard way of preventing personal data
being retrieved from binned HDs. Personally, I use a lump hammer and a
cold chisel on a concrete floor or step.
Yes, that's what she meant. Destroy the HD.
Post by Java Jive
But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ...
It's not dead as it brought up technical screens when tapping F8 or F2. It
ran fine with the battery not charged and plugged in.
Post by Java Jive
Post by HB
On the back it just says Satellite followed by numbers. I don't know which
numbers would be relevant. This is the 1st number. C655D (or 0) S5063 system
unit.
I would suggest going to Toshiba's site and comparing what you have with
pictures of other models and their given designations one of which will
probably be close to the above. When dealing with problems or buying
spares, it is *nearly always important* to know exactly what it is that
you have.
This was given to us by a realtive. She said it was too slow and wanted a
better faster newer laptop.
Post by Java Jive
Post by HB
What makes you think it's the battery since it worked fine without it as
long as it was plugged in? I had this same "going blank" with the blinking
"-" in the upper left hand corner before and they were desktops. I don't
remember the exact figures anymore but to fix them, according to the shops
where I lived at the time, wasn't worth what it would cost. An XP and a
Vista both went the same way.
Shops may be right in that it may not be commercially viable for them to
make certain types of repairs, or for you to pay them to do so, but
probably they also hope that they can persuade you to buy a replacement
from their stock, while some repairs, a new battery is a good example, you
can do yourself economically.
This is true. They knew I would not buy from a small shop. I bought all our
past computers from CompUSA before they went under. One from Best Buy and
one from WalMart. I could usually get rid of problems like this by accessing
safe mode and doing as System Recovery or Restore. But nothing led to safe
mode.
Post by Java Jive
Post by HB
It wasn't dead when plugged in as info came up when I tapped F2 or F8 but
not safe mode. Nothing that showed was familiar to me. A repair tech would
know what the info meant but it was Chinese to me. So it didn't need a
battery to run. I hate to toss it because it's like new. No one liked it
because it was slow. I was hoping to do a system recovery but couldn't get
into safe mode. I don't know any other way to do a system restore or
recovery.
Most PCs can do some primitive diagnostics from the BIOS. The BIOS is
usually entered by pressing or holding down a particular key at a
particular stage in the boot process - favourites are <Del>, and either
<F10> or one of the other function keys across the top of the keyboard.
Again, going on to Toshiba's site and identifying the model number may
help you find out which key is the magic one. Some laptops, such as
Dells, can even perform full diagnostic tests by pressing a different
magic key, IIRC <F11>, but my memory for such intermittently used
information is getting a little dodgy these days, and anyway you have a
Toshiba, not a Dell, so it's likely to be a different key, if full
diagnostics are available at all.
I'll do some Googling again and see if I find anything helpful. I'm sure a
tech would have found those screens that came up helpful. To me they may as
well have been in Chinese.
Post by Java Jive
You may find this page on my site, useful - although when written I
mostly had desktops in mind, since writing it I've repaired some laptops
as well, and while the details may be different, the principles are
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/PCHardware/HardwareFaults.html
In particular, either ...
If the laptop can boot from a USB stick, then download an Ubuntu or other
Linux distro - make sure you get a suitable one, 32-bit or 64-bit as
appropriate - install it on a 2GB or larger USB stick, depending on the
size of the download, and see what messages Linux generates as it tries to
boot the PC. This may give you some useful pointers to a hardware fault.
If the PC boots from the stick, then you should see your hard disk
partition(s) as clickable icons down the left hand side menu (in Ubuntu,
other distros may be different, for example the icons may be on the
desktop). Try this and come back to us with a description of what
happens, particularly whether the PC boots at all, whether Linux lets see
your HD at all, and even the contents of it.
OK.. will do.



. you can mount the HD in a desktop, do that and diagnose it from
Post by Java Jive
there. If, as is likely with an old laptop, you have an IDE drive, you
would need a 2.5"-to-3.5" HD connector/convertor and attach the other side
of that to a spare IDE connector and power cable, whereas a SATA drive can
be attached directly to a standard SATA cable, but you may need a
convertor for the power cable - it all depends on the particular
combination of laptop HD and desktop motherboard and power supply cables.
Try this and do a chkdsk on the laptop's HD - you will probably have to
go into Disk Manager and give the laptop HD a drive letter first.
I wouldn't know where to start and if I want to devote the time it took to
do it. I've had almost no experience with the inside hardware of
computers. The HD doesn't look like anything I've seen in a DT PC. Just
getting to the wires to get the DT PC to come forward is a major
production... seriously. BTW, the HD is a Seagate 250 GBs - the other info
is all in Chinese characters.
Post by Java Jive
Either way, you should be able to find out if the HD can be retrieved by
repartitioning and reinstalling, and the first should also suggest whether
and how much of the rest of the PC is functioning correctly.
Wolf K
2018-03-13 02:03:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HB
Post by Java Jive
(much snipped for brevity)
I think either I or Vanguard must be mistaken. He seems to be implying
that you were about to crunch the entire laptop with a sledge hammer,
whereas I think your other half meant just the hard drive, assuming it was
dead, did she not? This is a standard way of preventing personal data
being retrieved from binned HDs. Personally, I use a lump hammer and a
cold chisel on a concrete floor or step.
Yes, that's what she meant. Destroy the HD.
Post by Java Jive
But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ...
It's not dead as it brought up technical screens when tapping F8 or F2. It
ran fine with the battery not charged and plugged in.
f8 or f2 access BIOS, _not_ the HD. Can you copy (by hand, I guss) and
post the technical messages? That would be helpful.
--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"The next conference for the time travel design team will be held two
weeks ago."
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-03-13 05:50:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message <HjGpC.183532$***@fx40.iad>, Wolf K
<***@sympatico.ca> writes:
[]
Post by Wolf K
f8 or f2 access BIOS, _not_ the HD. Can you copy (by hand, I guss) and
post the technical messages? That would be helpful.
[]
The F8 menu - things like safe mode, safe mode with networking, last
good boot, etc. - _does_ come from the HD.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

_____
___ |[]|_n_n_I_c
|___||__|###|____)
O-O--O-O+++--O-O
HB
2018-03-13 06:11:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Wolf K
Post by HB
Post by Java Jive
But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ...
It's not dead as it brought up technical screens when tapping F8 or F2. It
ran fine with the battery not charged and plugged in.
f8 or f2 access BIOS, _not_ the HD. Can you copy (by hand, I guss) and
post the technical messages? That would be helpful.
It says "InsydeH20setup utility" at the top of the screen.

There are too many. 6 tabs on one screen. Text on each tab. None mention
Safe Mode or system recovery. Example. On the Avanced tab it says: Boot
Speed. Boot sound. USB Legacy Emulation. System Configuration.

These are images that I found of what I'm seeing for the most part. They're
the closest but not exactly the same.

https://www.google.com/search?q=InsydeH20setup+utility&client=firefox-b-1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj-ifiU0ejZAhUQjlkKHX6XA1MQ_AUIDCgD&biw=1408&bih=625

I'm going by what I found on the net. None of the F keys brings up the
screen I'm familiar with where Safe Mode is a choice. The online info says
to tap F8 as the PC comes on but all that gets me is a black screen and a
annoying beeping sound when a key is pressed.
Post by Wolf K
--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"The next conference for the time travel design team will be held two
weeks ago."
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-03-13 06:26:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message <p87q1q$8sa$***@dont-email.me>, HB <***@fake.com> writes:
[]
Post by HB
I'm going by what I found on the net. None of the F keys brings up the
screen I'm familiar with where Safe Mode is a choice. The online info says
to tap F8 as the PC comes on but all that gets me is a black screen and a
annoying beeping sound when a key is pressed.
[]
You will only get that screen if (a) the hard drive is working and (b)
none of the files that the system needs to load to get as far as that
screen have been corrupted.

The beeping just means you've filled the keyboard buffer.

_Does_ the poorly PC have a separate panel on the bottom that can be
removed to get at the hard drive?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

_____
___ |[]|_n_n_I_c
|___||__|###|____)
O-O--O-O+++--O-O
Zaidy036
2018-03-13 06:59:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by HB
I'm going by what I found on the net. None of the F keys brings up the
screen I'm familiar with where Safe Mode is a choice. The online info says
to tap F8 as the PC comes on but all that gets me is a black screen and a
annoying beeping sound when a key is pressed.
[]
You will only get that screen if (a) the hard drive is working and (b)
none of the files that the system needs to load to get as far as that
screen have been corrupted.
The beeping just means you've filled the keyboard buffer.
_Does_ the poorly PC have a separate panel on the bottom that can be
removed to get at the hard drive?
If you have a digital camera take pics of screens and post on another site.
--
Zaidy036
HB
2018-03-13 07:25:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by HB
I'm going by what I found on the net. None of the F keys brings up the
screen I'm familiar with where Safe Mode is a choice. The online info says
to tap F8 as the PC comes on but all that gets me is a black screen and a
annoying beeping sound when a key is pressed.
[]
You will only get that screen if (a) the hard drive is working and (b)
none of the files that the system needs to load to get as far as that
screen have been corrupted.
The beeping just means you've filled the keyboard buffer.
_Does_ the poorly PC have a separate panel on the bottom that can be
removed to get at the hard drive?
I already removed it and made sure it went back in OK.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
--
_____
___ |[]|_n_n_I_c
|___||__|###|____)
O-O--O-O+++--O-O
Paul
2018-03-13 07:42:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HB
Post by Wolf K
f8 or f2 access BIOS, _not_ the HD. Can you copy (by hand, I guss) and
post the technical messages? That would be helpful.
It says "InsydeH20setup utility" at the top of the screen.
There are too many. 6 tabs on one screen. Text on each tab. None mention
Safe Mode or system recovery. Example. On the Avanced tab it says: Boot
Speed. Boot sound. USB Legacy Emulation. System Configuration.
These are images that I found of what I'm seeing for the most part. They're
the closest but not exactly the same.
https://www.google.com/search?q=InsydeH20setup+utility&client=firefox-b-1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj-ifiU0ejZAhUQjlkKHX6XA1MQ_AUIDCgD&biw=1408&bih=625
I'm going by what I found on the net. None of the F keys brings up the
screen I'm familiar with where Safe Mode is a choice. The online info says
to tap F8 as the PC comes on but all that gets me is a black screen and a
annoying beeping sound when a key is pressed.
InsydeH20 is a *BIOS* company.

Pressing F2 or F8 or F12 early after the power
comes on, caused you to drop into the BIOS.

After the flashing "_" appears in the upper left
hand corner of an otherwise black screen, is the
OS booting. At that point, some of the older OSes
would accept pressing of F8 to enter the
Safe Mode OS menu.

The timing of the key press is critical. On
a machine with a BIOS which happens to use F8, you
will end up in the BIOS if your timing is not
perfect. And if you're late during the OS boot
phase, the OS will (attempt) to boot in regular mode.

On the modern OSes, you can use BCDEdit from the
OS installer DVD or from the emergency boot CD,
use the Command Prompt window there, to set a BCD
option to cause the machine to stop at the
Safe Mode screen.

However, if the booting bits of your OS are
corrupted, it might never even get a chance
to consider your presses of F8, or your
entreaty via the BCD, to stop at the
Safe Mode screen.

*******

As an example:

1) Boot the computer using the Windows 7 SP1 installer DVD.
Select the troubleshooting options, rather than anything
related to installation. That might require accepting the
"language" screen when it comes up, but after that, there
should be a button for Troubleshooting. This gives a
Command Prompt window.

2) Look at Option 3 here.

https://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/69585-safe-mode.html

bcdedit # review the details
# sometimes a refusal to boot is
# caused by a blank entry for a volume

bcdedit /set {current} safeboot minimal # Add the entry to BCD

bcdedit # Verify it looks correct

3) Type "exit" in Command Prompt or close the window,
then allow the machine to boot to the hard drive.

I don't know why you're heading to Safe Mode, what you have
in mind, but that's an example of doing it.

To remove it later, you can repeat the above approach from
a Windows Administrator (elevated) Command Prompt window.

bcdedit # review the details
# Make sure the menu item is in "Current"

bcdedit /deletevalue {current} safeboot

Some of the BCD options can also be neutered by "/set"
to a benign value, and then you don't even need to
deletevalue to switch them off. BCD also has
options where it has Booleans, and True and False
are synonyms for Yes and No.

The nice thing about BCDEdit, is a hell of a lot of
nice examples have been written and documented since
Vista came out. And working with the BCD (from an
emergency boot CD or from an installer DVD), no longer
has to be "mysterious". The sevenforums site has
recipes. Not all the recipes are "most useful",
and the reason I selected the Option 3 from the
above one, is a lot of what we do here is "emergency"
edits, where the user can no longer use the regular
OS to edit stuff.

You can do offline edits (edit the BCD on other drives
in the computer), using the /store option.

bcdedit /store C:\boot\BCD /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True

When you do stuff like that, it's up to you to use
the "dir" command to actually verify the drive lettering,
since drives get different lettering in virtually every
environment you work in.

That particular command there, happens to be a favorite of
mine, because it adds a "WinXP style black boot menu" to
OSes like Windows 10 :-) Just ignoring the two OS boot
choices here, there *is* a row on the screen that says
to "press F8", so this menu just happens to give you
access to all the Safe Mode options. I want this window
for the "press F8" option, not because the OS boot
choices look pretty or something. This is how I get to
Safe Mode. The black screen sits there for 30 seconds,
giving plenty of time to make a single press of F8.

https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/22455-enable-disable-f8-advanced-boot-options-windows-10-a.html

bcdedit /store C:\boot\BCD /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True # booted from emergency CD
bcdedit /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True # From regular OS cmd.exe

HTH,
Paul
Wolf K
2018-03-13 13:23:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HB
Post by HB
Post by Java Jive
But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ...
It's not dead as it brought up technical screens when tapping F8 or F2. It
ran fine with the battery not charged and plugged in.
f8 or f2 access BIOS,_not_ the HD. Can you copy (by hand, I guss) and
post the technical messages? That would be helpful.
It says "InsydeH20setup utility" at the top of the screen.
There are too many. 6 tabs on one screen. Text on each tab. None mention
Safe Mode or system recovery. Example. On the Avanced tab it says: Boot
Speed. Boot sound. USB Legacy Emulation. System Configuration.
[...]

As Vanguard says, either Windows is messed up somehow, or else the HDD
is messed up somehow. Either way, Windows isn't being loaded. The boot
stops before it loads Windows. I don't know which is more likely on your
case, but IMO it's the HDD.

I'm afraid that all you can do at this point is a couple more diagnostic
tests, such as booting Linux (another operating system) from the CD/DVD
drive. You'd have to ask a friend to download Linux and burn it it to a
DVD.

But the bottom line IMO is that you can't do anything to fix this
machine. A tech can probably fix it, but it's up to you to decide
whether it's worth the price.

More explanation of what you are seeing when you try to boot the machine:

You are seeing the BIOS config screen. Windows is not starting at all.

BIOS = "basic Input Output System". It's a small program that's built
into the computer. It's on a chip. The computer can't function without
it. The first stage of booting runs the BIOS, which looks for an
operating system to load and run. On your machine, the operating system
is Windows.

Windows is the operating system. It contains all the software needed to
make the machine fully functional. It's on the HDD. During boot, it is
copied into RAM (memory chips). Once it's loaded, it runs, that's when
you'll see your desktop etc. That's also when you could restart
_Windows_ in safe mode.

Good luck and best wishes,
--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"The next conference for the time travel design team will be held two
weeks ago."
Java Jive
2018-03-13 13:19:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HB
Post by Java Jive
whereas I think your other half meant just the hard drive, assuming it was
dead, did she not? This is a standard way of preventing personal data
being retrieved from binned HDs. Personally, I use a lump hammer and a
cold chisel on a concrete floor or step.
Yes, that's what she meant. Destroy the HD.
Thought as much, but let's make sure that it really is dead before we
perform the last rites ...
Post by HB
Post by Java Jive
But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ...
It's not dead as it brought up technical screens when tapping F8 or F2. It
ran fine with the battery not charged and plugged in.
No, the technical screens come from the BIOS, which is *usually* a chip
on the motherboard, not written to the HD.

{
Hopefully irrelevant historical note:

Having said that, about 15-20 years ago I encountered some Dell desktops
where some of the BIOS functions were combined with some Dell system
recovery functions on a hidden first partition of the HD, and if, as was
the firm's policy, you wiped the HD before putting the firm's standard
build on it, you lost that partition and thereby the ability to enter
the useful BIOS interactive GUI. I presume some BIOS functionality must
have remained, because otherwise the PCs could not have got as far as
booting the OS, but the BIOS GUI was definitely missing. Consequently,
I rewrote the scripts to leave the hidden partition in place.
}
Post by HB
Post by Java Jive
Post by HB
On the back it just says Satellite followed by numbers. I don't know which
numbers would be relevant. This is the 1st number. C655D (or 0) S5063 system
unit.
I would suggest going to Toshiba's site and comparing what you have with
pictures of other models and their given designations one of which will
probably be close to the above. When dealing with problems or buying
spares, it is *nearly always important* to know exactly what it is that
you have.
This was given to us by a realtive. She said it was too slow and wanted a
better faster newer laptop.
I'm afraid that you must learn what is useful information and what is
not - the above is not.

What would be useful is for you to find the exact model number by
comparing what you have with information from Toshiba's website.
Post by HB
I could usually get rid of problems like this by accessing
safe mode and doing as System Recovery or Restore. But nothing led to safe
mode.
What you are referring to as 'Safe Mode' is part of Windows, which you
will only reach if the HD is working.

You need to get your head around how a PC boots. The processor in a PC
is built in such a way that on receiving power it goes to a particular
place in its memory to begin execution of whatever instructions it finds
there. These instructions are part of the Basic Input Output System
(the BIOS that we keep mentioning). The BIOS performs some
self-diagnostic tests, then if these are satisfactory it searches any
attached media - hard disk, CD/DVD, or USB stick, in an order that is
settable within the BIOS - for an Operating System (OS) to run.
Usually, as in your case, it finds an OS on the first partition of the
only HD, and, again as in your case, it is often Windows. There is more
detail on another page on my site that describes this process:

http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/PCHardware/PCBootProcess.html

Whether or not you choose to understand the details above, the important
consequence is that, if the HD has gone down, the PC can never find an
OS to run, and can never offer you Windows 'Safe Mode'.
Post by HB
I'll do some Googling again and see if I find anything helpful. I'm sure a
tech would have found those screens that came up helpful. To me they may as
well have been in Chinese.
BUT the fact that you have got into the BIOS at all does suggest that
most of the PC is functioning, and in itself that is encouraging. Next
we have to find out which part of the PC is broken, and, from what we
know so far, the hard disk does seem a likely culprit, but it would be
premature to *assume* that at this stage.

More generally, when reading technical stuff that is unfamiliar to you,
it's important to resist developing the habit of going into either panic
or glaze mode. Although officially I'm now retired, I've just spent
three days at a legacy client's configuring a cloud phone system,
something which I've never done before, and I did it successfully
because I did it step by step, trying to understand one thing at a time.
You have to be prepared to invest some time and effort in studying and
trying to understand what needs to be understood.
Post by HB
Post by Java Jive
If the laptop can boot from a USB stick, then download an Ubuntu or other
Linux distro - make sure you get a suitable one, 32-bit or 64-bit as
appropriate - install it on a 2GB or larger USB stick, depending on the
size of the download, and see what messages Linux generates as it tries to
boot the PC. This may give you some useful pointers to a hardware fault.
If the PC boots from the stick, then you should see your hard disk
partition(s) as clickable icons down the left hand side menu (in Ubuntu,
other distros may be different, for example the icons may be on the
desktop). Try this and come back to us with a description of what
happens, particularly whether the PC boots at all, whether Linux lets see
your HD at all, and even the contents of it.
OK.. will do.
Have you tried this yet? If the PC can boot from a USB stick, then
hopefully all that is wrong is the HD, so then we would have to see if
it can be retrieved as a whole, or at least if your data can be
retrieved from it.

IMPORTANT NOTE: You may have to master an understanding of the BIOS
sufficient to set the boot order so as to ensure that the PC will try to
boot from a USB stick, if one is present. If that is beyond you, burn
the Linux distro to a CD or DVD instead, and see if the PC will boot
from that.
Wolf K
2018-03-11 15:39:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-03-11 06:11, HB wrote:

[...]
Post by HB
On the back it just says Satellite followed by numbers. I don't know which
numbers would be relevant. This is the 1st number. C655D (or 0) S5063 system
unit.
Use the whole thing first with the D, if that doesn't work, then with
the 0, for a search string. Start with "Toshiba". (Sheesh, do you really
need to be told that? Just experiment, fergawdssake!)
Post by HB
What makes you think it's the battery since it worked fine without it as
long as it was plugged in? > I had this same "going blank" with the blinking
"-" in the upper left hand corner before and they were desktops. I don't
remember the exact figures anymore but to fix them, according to the shops
where I lived at the time, wasn't worth what it would cost. An XP and a
Vista both went the same way.
It wasn't dead when plugged in as info came up when I tapped F2 or F8 but
not safe mode.
You've already been told that "safe mode" is in Windows, _not_ in the
computer. You can't get into safe mode until Windows is loaded. Which
isn't happening, right?
Post by HB
Nothing that showed was familiar to me.
Google it.
Post by HB
A repair tech would
know what the info meant but it was Chinese to me.
You either got a standard BIOS screen, which gives you options to
select, or you got an error message. Which was it? If it was an error
message, what did it say?
Post by HB
So it didn't need a
battery to run.
That's not a sound inference. Why? Because if it were "running", it
would load Windows. OTOH, if the disk drive is somehow corrupted, it
wouldn't load Windows, either. Without an error message, there's no way
of telling.

A tech could find out, but that would cost you. But maybe a the fee for
diagnosis would be worth it. At worst, it would confirm that the machine
is toast. At best, it would indicate what repair(s) would make it
functional again.
Post by HB
I hate to toss it because it's like new. No one liked it
because it was slow. I was hoping to do a system recovery but couldn't get
into safe mode. I don't know any other way to do a system restore or
recovery.
Well, if the machine won't load Windows, you can't do that. But if it
did load Windows, you wouldn't need to do it. So....

Without further information, there's no point continuing this thread.
--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"The next conference for the time travel design team will be held two
weeks ago."
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-03-11 16:02:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
[]
Post by Wolf K
Post by HB
I hate to toss it because it's like new. No one liked it
because it was slow. I was hoping to do a system recovery but couldn't get
into safe mode. I don't know any other way to do a system restore or
recovery.
Well, if the machine won't load Windows, you can't do that. But if it
Not _strictly_ true; there are ways to do a system restore on the disc
from another machine. It's convoluted, and needs concentration, and is
easy to screw up by doing the wrong thing at the wrong stage. I'm not
sure _I_ could do it. See the archives of this 'group (and the XP one);
sorry, I can't remember search terms.
Post by Wolf K
did load Windows, you wouldn't need to do it. So....
Without further information, there's no point continuing this thread.
Certainly not with that attitude. Come on, give the guy some slack! I
know there are those who come here without adequate preparation *and
continue that way*, but I think this guy is genuine, just perhaps has a
little less experience than some of us/you; he seems to be doing his
best to answer questions, even keeping calm and answering those in a
tirade from Mayayana! Using a flamethrower is likely to drive away
newcomers, and we need them, if the 'group isn't to just remain as the
five or ten of us. (_I_ am not that knowledgeable - as my posts in the
last two weeks or so must show! - about Windows 7 as such.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

You cannot simply assume someone is honest just because they are not an MP.
Wolf K
2018-03-11 20:04:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Wolf K
Post by HB
I hate to toss it because it's like new. No one liked it
because it was slow. I was hoping to do a system recovery but couldn't get
into safe mode.  I don't know any other way to do a system restore or
recovery.
Well, if the machine won't load Windows, you can't do that. But if it
Not _strictly_ true; there are ways to do a system restore on the disc
from another machine. It's convoluted, and needs concentration, and is
easy to screw up by doing the wrong thing at the wrong stage. I'm not
sure _I_ could do it. See the archives of this 'group (and the XP one);
sorry, I can't remember search terms.
If I read you correctly, you're saying an image copied from another
machine might restore the disk (if it is in fact the disk that's the
problem.) I agree, I wouldn't recommend OP try to do that.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Wolf K
did load Windows, you wouldn't need to do it. So....
Without further information, there's no point continuing this thread.
Certainly not with that attitude. Come on, give the guy some slack!
OK, should've said "If we can't get more information, we can't continue
trying to solve the problem."
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I
know there are those who come here without adequate preparation *and
continue that way*, but I think this guy is genuine, just perhaps has a
little less experience than some of us/you; he seems to be doing his
best to answer questions, even keeping calm and answering those in a
tirade from Mayayana! Using a flamethrower is likely to drive away
newcomers, and we need them, if the 'group isn't to just remain as the
five or ten of us. (_I_ am not that knowledgeable - as my posts in the
last two weeks or so must show! - about Windows 7 as such.)
What I meant was what we need the information that OP refers to but
doesn't quote/specify. I'm still not sure whether the machine boots on
external power with or without the battery. See Vanguard's post, which
is an attempt to get clarity on that question.
--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"The next conference for the time travel design team will be held two
weeks ago."
Patrick
2018-03-11 21:23:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I know there are those who come here without adequate preparation *and
continue that way*, but I think this guy is genuine, just perhaps has
a little less experience than some of us/you; he seems to be doing his
best to answer questions, even keeping calm and answering those in a
tirade from Mayayana! Using a flamethrower is likely to drive away
newcomers, and we need them, if the 'group isn't to just remain as the
five or ten of us. (_I_ am not that knowledgeable - as my posts in the
last two weeks or so must show! - about Windows 7 as such.)
 What I meant was what we need the information that OP refers to but
doesn't quote/specify. I'm still not sure whether the machine boots on
external power with or without the battery. See Vanguard's post, which
is an attempt to get clarity on that question.
From the numbers/details ascertained from the OP, the machine appears
to be this;

https://support.toshiba.com/support/modelHome?freeText=2743964
HB
2018-03-13 00:37:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Wolf K
I know there are those who come here without adequate preparation *and
continue that way*, but I think this guy is genuine, just perhaps has a
little less experience than some of us/you; he seems to be doing his
best to answer questions, even keeping calm and answering those in a
tirade from Mayayana! Using a flamethrower is likely to drive away
newcomers, and we need them, if the 'group isn't to just remain as the
five or ten of us. (_I_ am not that knowledgeable - as my posts in the
last two weeks or so must show! - about Windows 7 as such.)
What I meant was what we need the information that OP refers to but
doesn't quote/specify. I'm still not sure whether the machine boots on
external power with or without the battery. See Vanguard's post, which is
an attempt to get clarity on that question.
From the numbers/details ascertained from the OP, the machine appears to
be this;
https://support.toshiba.com/support/modelHome?freeText=2743964
That sure looks like it. I'll check that site when I finish up here and
have free time later tonight.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-03-11 22:15:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Wolf K
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Wolf K
Post by HB
I hate to toss it because it's like new. No one liked it
because it was slow. I was hoping to do a system recovery but couldn't get
into safe mode.  I don't know any other way to do a system restore or
recovery.
Well, if the machine won't load Windows, you can't do that. But if it
Not _strictly_ true; there are ways to do a system restore on the
disc from another machine. It's convoluted, and needs concentration,
and is easy to screw up by doing the wrong thing at the wrong stage.
I'm not sure _I_ could do it. See the archives of this 'group (and
the XP one); sorry, I can't remember search terms.
If I read you correctly, you're saying an image copied from another
machine might restore the disk (if it is in fact the disk that's the
problem.) I agree, I wouldn't recommend OP try to do that.
No, I meant I remember seeing a way to get at previous restore points on
a disc that won't boot. It was something like: find the relevant files
(using another computer) in a directory with an obscure random-sounding
name, and save them; "repair" the system (in the faulty machine), such
that it creates initial as-new restore points; take the disc out again,
and replace (on the other computer) the as-new restore files with the
ones you've saved. I've probably missed some steps, or got them in the
wrong order; it's a while since I saw it described.
Post by Wolf K
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Wolf K
did load Windows, you wouldn't need to do it. So....
Without further information, there's no point continuing this thread.
Certainly not with that attitude. Come on, give the guy some slack!
OK, should've said "If we can't get more information, we can't continue
trying to solve the problem."
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I know there are those who come here without adequate preparation
*and continue that way*, but I think this guy is genuine, just
perhaps has a little less experience than some of us/you; he seems to
be doing his best to answer questions, even keeping calm and
answering those in a tirade from Mayayana! Using a flamethrower is
likely to drive away newcomers, and we need them, if the 'group isn't
to just remain as the five or ten of us. (_I_ am not that
knowledgeable - as my posts in the last two weeks or so must show! -
about Windows 7 as such.)
What I meant was what we need the information that OP refers to but
doesn't quote/specify. I'm still not sure whether the machine boots on
external power with or without the battery.
I agree, I'm waiting for him to answer that one, as it's a simple thing
to try.
Post by Wolf K
See Vanguard's post, which is an attempt to get clarity on that
question.
I did see one - quite a rant! - from Vanguard, followed by one from this
guy which seemed to me to be a very patient response. Granted, he didn't
reply to all the questions Vanguard asked, but I think he answered
several of them.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If you believe in telekinesis, raise my right hand
HB
2018-03-13 00:34:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
"Wolf K" <***@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:WYfpC.69714$***@fx21.iad...
-snip -
Post by Wolf K
What I meant was what we need the information that OP refers to but
doesn't quote/specify. I'm still not sure whether the machine boots on
external power with or without the battery. See Vanguard's post, which is
an attempt to get clarity on that question.
Let me clarify. I noticed the battery stopped charging maybe 3 weeks ago.
The battery looked to be at zero for days. If the cursor was placed on the
battery icon it read something like, "plugged in not charging". I figured
the battery bit the dust but it worked fine so anyone who wanted to use it
would plug it in, then turn it on. It would boot right up into windows and
run fine. Then one everning I did the same but the screen was black with
the blinking " - " in the upper left hand corner. I shut it off and started
it tapping the F8 key and some window came up with tech info but no choices
such as safe mode. One window came up and the choice was to do a memory
check which said memory was OK. I'm not sure which F key brought up that
window.

That's as far as I got with it. You know the rest.
VanguardLH
2018-03-11 18:02:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
With the battery in, laptop won't boot. With the battery out, the
laptop boots. That how it appears you describe the problem. Did I get
your description wrong? If not, seems pretty simple diagnosis: it's the
battery.

Doesn't the laptop's own boot screen offer a choice to hit a special key
or key combo the restore the computer to factory-time setup?

https://support.toshiba.com/support/viewContentDetail?contentId=2737864

A special-use partition is created on the HDD to perform the factory
default installation. It is either an image to lay back on the HDD or
an installer to perform a default install. If the laptop didn't come
with recovery CDs, the manual probably mentioned how to create them
after you received the prebuilt computer.
HB
2018-03-13 01:54:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by VanguardLH
With the battery in, laptop won't boot. With the battery out, the
laptop boots. That how it appears you describe the problem. Did I get
your description wrong? If not, seems pretty simple diagnosis: it's the
battery.
It wont boot into windows either way. It turns on and will bring up text
windows/screens by tapping F keys. That may be the misunderstanding. But
tonight, afrer reinstalling the battery and HD, I hit F12 and a menu of some
kind came up. There are 6 tabs. None give me the choice to get into Safe
Mode. It seems to only be info on what's on the PC such as memory size to
saving changes on exit. I have no idea what to do on any of these screens.
They're called Main, Security, Power management, Advanced,Boot and Exit.
Under the screen is a strip with choices such as F5 & 6 Change values
(whatever they are). F9 Setup Defaults (meaningless to me.) How can this be
helpful - any ideas?
Post by VanguardLH
Doesn't the laptop's own boot screen offer a choice to hit a special key
or key combo the restore the computer to factory-time setup?
At the very top it says, "InsydeH20 Setup Utility."

The Boot tab is mostly techie speak so I have no idea what to do with this.
The choices are:

HDD/SD
FDD
CD/DVD
LAN
USB

It says "Select the priority for booting the computer."

So which one do I select? I don't have a CD or DVD for this laptop. None was
given to me with the computer.
Post by VanguardLH
https://support.toshiba.com/support/viewContentDetail?contentId=2737864
A special-use partition is created on the HDD to perform the factory
default installation. It is either an image to lay back on the HDD or
an installer to perform a default install. If the laptop didn't come
with recovery CDs, the manual probably mentioned how to create them
after you received the prebuilt computer.
How can I do anything useful with the info on this screen?
Wolf K
2018-03-13 02:42:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HB
Post by VanguardLH
With the battery in, laptop won't boot. With the battery out, the
laptop boots. That how it appears you describe the problem. Did I get
your description wrong? If not, seems pretty simple diagnosis: it's the
battery.
It wont boot into windows either way. It turns on and will bring up text
windows/screens by tapping F keys. That may be the misunderstanding. But
tonight, afrer reinstalling the battery and HD, I hit F12 and a menu of some
kind came up. There are 6 tabs. None give me the choice to get into Safe
Mode. It seems to only be info on what's on the PC such as memory size to
saving changes on exit. I have no idea what to do on any of these screens.
They're called Main, Security, Power management, Advanced,Boot and Exit.
Under the screen is a strip with choices such as F5 & 6 Change values
(whatever they are). F9 Setup Defaults (meaningless to me.) How can this be
helpful - any ideas?
Well, all those options are served up by BIOS (_not_ Windows!). BIOS is
the built-in program that starts when you turn on the power. It has two
jobs: first, to find the boot loader and load (start) the operating
system (Windows in your case). Second, if interrupted, to offer options
for miscellaneous diagnostic tests and hardware settings. That's what
you saw when you hit F2 (or F8). F12 switches to another options screen.

BIOS is running the way it should. But it is unable to start the
bootloader on the C: drive (the hard disk). That means one of two things:
a) The Master Boot Record on the HDD is corrupt or missing. But in that
case, you should see a message saying BIOS "can't find ntloader".

b) BIOS can't access the HDD. There are several possible reasons for
this. The worst case from your POV is that the HDD is toast. In that
case, rescuing the laptop would entail opening up the laptop and
replacing the HDD, not a simple job.

A more favourable (cheaper) possibility is that the HDD connector is
bad, and reseating it would fix the problem. Like changing the drive
itself, that would entail opening up the laptop.

You may be able to find out if BIOS can access the HDD. One of the
Diagnostic screen should include s a test of the HDD. Look for anything
that looks like it will test or scan the HDD, and run that. If that test
or scan fails, BIOS cannot access the HDD.
Post by HB
Post by VanguardLH
Doesn't the laptop's own boot screen offer a choice to hit a special key
or key combo the restore the computer to factory-time setup?
If by "boot screen" you mean the one shown when Windows boots, then it's
npot accessible, since the laptop isn't booting.
Post by HB
At the very top it says, "InsydeH20 Setup Utility."
The Boot tab is mostly techie speak so I have no idea what to do with this.
HDD/SD
FDD
CD/DVD
LAN
USB > It says "Select the priority for booting the computer."
Those are all possible locations for the bootloader. Eg HDD/SD is the
hard drive (If the boot is successful, you see it as the C: drive)

Boot priority just means the order in which BIOS will try to find the
bootloader.

FDD is a floppy disk drive, which the laptop doesn't have. It's left
over from the that desktops came with floppy disk drives. Not re;levant
for you.

CD/DVD is obvious.

LAN is the Local Area Network. This is for desktops that are booted from
the network. Not relevant for you

USB is a USB connected drive. It could be USB memory stick or an
external hard drive.
Post by HB
So which one do I select?
CD/DVD. The computer will try that first, then the other options in
sequence. It's actually doing that, starting with the HDD, but it looks
like can't find a boot loader.
Post by HB
I don't have a CD or DVD for this laptop. None was
given to me with the computer.
[...]
Post by HB
How can I do anything useful with the info on this screen?
You could run a Linux from the CD/DVD drive, which would IMO would
merely confirm that the HDD is bad.

So, based on what you've described, IMO the HDD is the problem and you
have to decide whether it's worth your money to have the laptop repaired.

Best wishes,
--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"The next conference for the time travel design team will be held two
weeks ago."
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-03-13 06:10:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message <0UGpC.224306$***@fx37.iad>, Wolf K
<***@sympatico.ca> writes:
[]
Post by Wolf K
b) BIOS can't access the HDD. There are several possible reasons for
this. The worst case from your POV is that the HDD is toast. In that
case, rescuing the laptop would entail opening up the laptop and
replacing the HDD, not a simple job.
A more favourable (cheaper) possibility is that the HDD connector is
bad, and reseating it would fix the problem. Like changing the drive
itself, that would entail opening up the laptop.
Not necessarily: it depends whether the laptop has an HD hatch. A lot
do, i. e. a panel which can be removed (sometimes needing a _few_ screws
to be removed, granted) to access the HD, but not requiring the whole
back to be taken off, which I agree is decidedly fiddly. (On this laptop
- also a Toshiba - one of the screws for the HD flap is actually under
the RAM flap, but if this is the case it should be fairly obvious.)
Post by Wolf K
You may be able to find out if BIOS can access the HDD. One of the
Diagnostic screen should include s a test of the HDD. Look for anything
that looks like it will test or scan the HDD, and run that. If that
test or scan fails, BIOS cannot access the HDD.
Though I think BIOS functions to _test_ the HD are rare.
[]
Post by Wolf K
Post by HB
I don't have a CD or DVD for this laptop. None was
given to me with the computer.
You may be able to download-and-burn, or borrow, one that will get as
far as the repair console. Only of use if the HD is working OK and just
files have been corrupted, though.
[]
Post by Wolf K
You could run a Linux from the CD/DVD drive, which would IMO would
merely confirm that the HDD is bad.
So, based on what you've described, IMO the HDD is the problem and you
have to decide whether it's worth your money to have the laptop
repaired.
Best wishes,
I'd say there's still a strong chance that it's just file corruption
(or, if you're _very_ lucky, the HD has just come disconnected, by
sliding around in its slot).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

_____
___ |[]|_n_n_I_c
|___||__|###|____)
O-O--O-O+++--O-O
HB
2018-03-13 07:28:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I'd say there's still a strong chance that it's just file corruption (or,
if you're _very_ lucky, the HD has just come disconnected, by sliding
around in its slot).
- Snips -

It seats snugly. I can't see any way it could move short of falling off a
roof.
--
_____
___ |[]|_n_n_I_c
|___||__|###|____)
O-O--O-O+++--O-O
HB
2018-03-13 06:25:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Wolf K
Post by HB
Post by VanguardLH
With the battery in, laptop won't boot. With the battery out, the
laptop boots. That how it appears you describe the problem. Did I get
your description wrong? If not, seems pretty simple diagnosis: it's the
battery.
It wont boot into windows either way. It turns on and will bring up text
windows/screens by tapping F keys. That may be the misunderstanding. But
tonight, afrer reinstalling the battery and HD, I hit F12 and a menu of some
kind came up. There are 6 tabs. None give me the choice to get into Safe
Mode. It seems to only be info on what's on the PC such as memory size to
saving changes on exit. I have no idea what to do on any of these screens.
They're called Main, Security, Power management, Advanced,Boot and Exit.
Under the screen is a strip with choices such as F5 & 6 Change values
(whatever they are). F9 Setup Defaults (meaningless to me.) How can this be
helpful - any ideas?
Well, all those options are served up by BIOS (_not_ Windows!). BIOS is
the built-in program that starts when you turn on the power. It has two
jobs: first, to find the boot loader and load (start) the operating system
(Windows in your case). Second, if interrupted, to offer options for
miscellaneous diagnostic tests and hardware settings. That's what you saw
when you hit F2 (or F8). F12 switches to another options screen.
BIOS is running the way it should. But it is unable to start the
a) The Master Boot Record on the HDD is corrupt or missing. But in that
case, you should see a message saying BIOS "can't find ntloader".
b) BIOS can't access the HDD. There are several possible reasons for this.
The worst case from your POV is that the HDD is toast. In that case,
rescuing the laptop would entail opening up the laptop and replacing the
HDD, not a simple job.
A more favourable (cheaper) possibility is that the HDD connector is bad,
and reseating it would fix the problem. Like changing the drive itself,
that would entail opening up the laptop.
You may be able to find out if BIOS can access the HDD. One of the
Diagnostic screen should include s a test of the HDD. Look for anything
that looks like it will test or scan the HDD, and run that. If that test
or scan fails, BIOS cannot access the HDD.
Noting about any tests on any of the 6 tabs. Googling InsydeH20 Setup
Utility will show you the tabs I mean. On the Toshiba they don't have the
same text/chices. It's somewhat different than what you see there.
Post by Wolf K
Post by HB
Post by VanguardLH
Doesn't the laptop's own boot screen offer a choice to hit a special key
or key combo the restore the computer to factory-time setup?
If by "boot screen" you mean the one shown when Windows boots, then it's
npot accessible, since the laptop isn't booting.
Post by HB
At the very top it says, "InsydeH20 Setup Utility."
The Boot tab is mostly techie speak so I have no idea what to do with this.
HDD/SD
FDD
CD/DVD
LAN
USB > It says "Select the priority for booting the computer."
Those are all possible locations for the bootloader. Eg HDD/SD is the hard
drive (If the boot is successful, you see it as the C: drive)
Boot priority just means the order in which BIOS will try to find the
bootloader.
FDD is a floppy disk drive, which the laptop doesn't have. It's left over
from the that desktops came with floppy disk drives. Not re;levant for
you.
CD/DVD is obvious.
LAN is the Local Area Network. This is for desktops that are booted from
the network. Not relevant for you
USB is a USB connected drive. It could be USB memory stick or an external
hard drive.
Post by HB
So which one do I select?
CD/DVD. The computer will try that first, then the other options in
sequence. It's actually doing that, starting with the HDD, but it looks
like can't find a boot loader.
Post by HB
I don't have a CD or DVD for this laptop. None was
given to me with the computer.
[...]
Post by HB
How can I do anything useful with the info on this screen?
You could run a Linux from the CD/DVD drive, which would IMO would merely
confirm that the HDD is bad.
So, based on what you've described, IMO the HDD is the problem and you
have to decide whether it's worth your money to have the laptop repaired.
Something to think about.... thanks.
Post by Wolf K
Best wishes,
--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"The next conference for the time travel design team will be held two
weeks ago."
Wolf K
2018-03-13 13:31:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HB
Post by HB
Post by VanguardLH
With the battery in, laptop won't boot. With the battery out, the
laptop boots. That how it appears you describe the problem. Did I get
your description wrong? If not, seems pretty simple diagnosis: it's the
battery.
It wont boot into windows either way. It turns on and will bring up text
windows/screens by tapping F keys. That may be the misunderstanding. But
tonight, afrer reinstalling the battery and HD, I hit F12 and a menu of some
kind came up. There are 6 tabs. None give me the choice to get into Safe
Mode. It seems to only be info on what's on the PC such as memory size to
saving changes on exit. I have no idea what to do on any of these screens.
They're called Main, Security, Power management, Advanced,Boot and Exit.
Under the screen is a strip with choices such as F5 & 6 Change values
(whatever they are). F9 Setup Defaults (meaningless to me.) How can this be
helpful - any ideas?
Well, all those options are served up by BIOS (_not_ Windows!). BIOS is
the built-in program that starts when you turn on the power. It has two
jobs: first, to find the boot loader and load (start) the operating system
(Windows in your case). Second, if interrupted, to offer options for
miscellaneous diagnostic tests and hardware settings. That's what you saw
when you hit F2 (or F8). F12 switches to another options screen.
BIOS is running the way it should. But it is unable to start the
a) The Master Boot Record on the HDD is corrupt or missing. But in that
case, you should see a message saying BIOS "can't find ntloader".
b) BIOS can't access the HDD. There are several possible reasons for this.
The worst case from your POV is that the HDD is toast. In that case,
rescuing the laptop would entail opening up the laptop and replacing the
HDD, not a simple job.
A more favourable (cheaper) possibility is that the HDD connector is bad,
and reseating it would fix the problem. Like changing the drive itself,
that would entail opening up the laptop.
You may be able to find out if BIOS can access the HDD. One of the
Diagnostic screen should include s a test of the HDD. Look for anything
that looks like it will test or scan the HDD, and run that. If that test
or scan fails, BIOS cannot access the HDD.
Noting about any tests on any of the 6 tabs. Googling InsydeH20 Setup
Utility will show you the tabs I mean. On the Toshiba they don't have the
same text/chices. It's somewhat different than what you see there.
OK, I think you're seeing the setup utility that you mentioned earlier.
It's apparently part of the BIOS on the Toshiba laptop. Same difference,
IOW.

Bottom line: You can't start Windows from any of those tabs.

So the choice is stark: Dump the machine, or take it to a tech who can
fix it. I know it feels bad to dump a machine, I've had to do it twice.
Both times, I took it to the local tech shop, in case they could use
some of the parts. I don't know if they ever did.

Best wishes,
--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"The next conference for the time travel design team will be held two
weeks ago."
VanguardLH
2018-03-13 03:09:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
VanguardLH wrote ...
Post by VanguardLH
With the battery in, laptop won't boot. With the battery out, the
laptop boots. That how it appears you describe the problem. Did I get
your description wrong? If not, seems pretty simple diagnosis: it's the
battery.
It wont boot into windows either way. It turns on and will bring up text
windows/screens by tapping F keys. That may be the misunderstanding.
Mentioned in another reply: remove the hard disk and see if the laptop
will boot. It should get to its POST screen and then report there is no
bootable media or OS not found. See if the *hardware* will boot up okay
BEFORE trying to troubleshoot why Windows won't start.
tonight, afrer reinstalling the battery and HD, I hit F12 and a menu of some
kind came up. There are 6 tabs. None give me the choice to get into Safe
Mode. It seems to only be info on what's on the PC such as memory size to
saving changes on exit.
They're called Main, Security, Power management, Advanced,Boot and Exit.
You went into the BIOS config screens. Looks like the laptop is
working. The problem is with Windows or the hard disk where it is
installed. Could be Windows is fouled. Could be you have a bad hard
drive. Insert the Windows install (or any other bootable disc) into the
CD drive, reboot, and select to boot from the CD drive. Does that work?

If saving what is on the hard disk is not critical (i.e., you're willing
to start fresh), boot the laptop and use its recovery option to restore
the laptop back to its factory-time state. See:

https://support.toshiba.com/sscontent?docId=98082971
Post by VanguardLH
Doesn't the laptop's own boot screen offer a choice to hit a special key
or key combo the restore the computer to factory-time setup?
At the very top it says, "InsydeH20 Setup Utility."
The Boot tab is mostly techie speak so I have no idea what to do with this.
HDD/SD
FDD
CD/DVD
LAN
USB
It says "Select the priority for booting the computer."
So which one do I select? I don't have a CD or DVD for this laptop. None was
given to me with the computer.
You are already past the POST screen and the BIOS is asking which device
you want to boot from. Windows is on the HDD. The list is the boot
order for the device types.
Post by VanguardLH
https://support.toshiba.com/support/viewContentDetail?contentId=2737864
A special-use partition is created on the HDD to perform the factory
default installation. It is either an image to lay back on the HDD or
an installer to perform a default install. If the laptop didn't come
with recovery CDs, the manual probably mentioned how to create them
after you received the prebuilt computer.
How can I do anything useful with the info on this screen?
Step 4 is where you decide whether or not to perform a recovery (to lay
a factory image onto the hard drive).
HB
2018-03-13 07:22:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by VanguardLH
VanguardLH wrote ...
Post by VanguardLH
With the battery in, laptop won't boot. With the battery out, the
laptop boots. That how it appears you describe the problem. Did I get
your description wrong? If not, seems pretty simple diagnosis: it's the
battery.
It wont boot into windows either way. It turns on and will bring up text
windows/screens by tapping F keys. That may be the misunderstanding.
Mentioned in another reply: remove the hard disk and see if the laptop
will boot. It should get to its POST screen and then report there is no
bootable media or OS not found. See if the *hardware* will boot up okay
BEFORE trying to troubleshoot why Windows won't start.
tonight, afrer reinstalling the battery and HD, I hit F12 and a menu of some
kind came up. There are 6 tabs. None give me the choice to get into Safe
Mode. It seems to only be info on what's on the PC such as memory size to
saving changes on exit.
They're called Main, Security, Power management, Advanced,Boot and Exit.
You went into the BIOS config screens. Looks like the laptop is
working. The problem is with Windows or the hard disk where it is
installed. Could be Windows is fouled. Could be you have a bad hard
drive. Insert the Windows install (or any other bootable disc) into the
CD drive, reboot, and select to boot from the CD drive. Does that work?
If saving what is on the hard disk is not critical (i.e., you're willing
to start fresh), boot the laptop and use its recovery option to restore
https://support.toshiba.com/sscontent?docId=98082971
Quote from step 4: "Press and hold down the 0 (zero) key on the keyboard
while powering on the computer/tablet. Release it when the recovery warning
screen appears."

Doing this brings no screen up, just causes a loud rapid beeping. So can't
get any further.
Post by VanguardLH
Post by VanguardLH
Doesn't the laptop's own boot screen offer a choice to hit a special key
or key combo the restore the computer to factory-time setup?
No.
Post by VanguardLH
At the very top it says, "InsydeH20 Setup Utility."
The Boot tab is mostly techie speak so I have no idea what to do with this.
HDD/SD
FDD
CD/DVD
LAN
USB
It says "Select the priority for booting the computer."
So which one do I select? I don't have a CD or DVD for this laptop. None was
given to me with the computer.
You are already past the POST screen and the BIOS is asking which device
you want to boot from. Windows is on the HDD. The list is the boot
order for the device types.
When I chose HDD I got this: "A disk read error occured. Press Ctrl+alt+Del
to restart." Did that and got the blank screen with the blinking - in the
corner.

BTW, thought the battery was supposedly dead, not charging, the PC still
starts when unplugged. These screens appear and I can hear the HD come to
life. So I don't think that info was correct it was showing before going
dark. There is life in it.
Post by VanguardLH
Post by VanguardLH
https://support.toshiba.com/support/viewContentDetail?contentId=2737864
A special-use partition is created on the HDD to perform the factory
default installation. It is either an image to lay back on the HDD or
an installer to perform a default install. If the laptop didn't come
with recovery CDs, the manual probably mentioned how to create them
after you received the prebuilt computer.
How can I do anything useful with the info on this screen?
Step 4 is where you decide whether or not to perform a recovery (to lay
a factory image onto the hard drive).
Quote from step 4: "Press and hold down the 0 (zero) key on the keyboard
while powering on the computer/tablet. Release it when the recovery warning
screen appears."

Doing this brings no recovery screen up, just causes a loud rapid beeping.
So I can't get any further. I have no bootable emergency discs. They were
lost in the move. Maybe it doesn't matter because they didn't work on the 2
PCs I had in the past with this same problem. A PC gets turned on and all
that appeared would be a blank screen with the blinker. Now when I see this
blinker in the upper left hand corner, I feel it's most likely the death of
that PC.
Wolf K
2018-03-13 13:40:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-03-13 03:22, HB wrote:
[...]
Post by HB
When I chose HDD I got this: "A disk read error occured. Press Ctrl+alt+Del
to restart." Did that and got the blank screen with the blinking - in the
corner.
[...]

I think that's definitive. There are two possibilities:

a) The Master Boot Record (MBR) is corrupted. (BIOS looks there to find
the location of the program that loads Windows.) If so, you can fix the
machine with a Windows 7 install/repair disk (DVD).

b) The HDD is broken. (The fact that it starts spinning doesn't mean
that it's working as it should.) If so, replace the HDD, and install Win7.

Best wishes.
--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"The next conference for the time travel design team will be held two
weeks ago."
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-03-13 06:00:58 UTC
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In message <p87b11$1qp$***@dont-email.me>, HB <***@fake.com> writes:
[]
Post by HB
kind came up. There are 6 tabs. None give me the choice to get into Safe
Mode. It seems to only be info on what's on the PC such as memory size to
saving changes on exit. I have no idea what to do on any of these screens.
They're called Main, Security, Power management, Advanced,Boot and Exit.
That's the BIOS - loads from ROM, even if no HD is fitted or it's dead.
Post by HB
Under the screen is a strip with choices such as F5 & 6 Change values
(whatever they are). F9 Setup Defaults (meaningless to me.) How can this be
helpful - any ideas?
You move around the menus with the arrow keys. To change the value of
the parameter that is currently highlighted, you use F5/F6. F9 puts all
such values back to their default (_usually_ this means a set of values
which may not give the best performance the machine can achieve, but
which are likely to work in most circumstances; its main function is for
when the user thinks "I've changed something and the computer is now not
working/behaving erratically, but I can't remember what I've changed").
Post by HB
Post by VanguardLH
Doesn't the laptop's own boot screen offer a choice to hit a special key
or key combo the restore the computer to factory-time setup?
I think the hard drive would have to be working - and able to boot - to
get to that option. Not necessarily, but usually.
Post by HB
At the very top it says, "InsydeH20 Setup Utility."
The Boot tab is mostly techie speak so I have no idea what to do with this.
HDD/SD
FDD
CD/DVD
LAN
USB
It says "Select the priority for booting the computer."
By fiddling with the keys, you can usually change the order of that list
(there might be a "move up/move down" key pair); it determines where the
computer looks for something bootable. The only ones you're likely to be
able to use are HDD, CD, and USB.
Post by HB
So which one do I select? I don't have a CD or DVD for this laptop. None was
given to me with the computer.
I presume it does have a CD _drive_ though.
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

_____
___ |[]|_n_n_I_c
|___||__|###|____)
O-O--O-O+++--O-O
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-03-11 12:38:53 UTC
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Post by HB
Post by VanguardLH
Post by HB
When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine, was
shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black screen
with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is
supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a screen
to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with 6
tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe
Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know how
to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7?
Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new. I
hate to recycle it.
I sympathise. I hate to give up on a machine - often to well beyond its
worth, if I were to put a price on my time. I just don't like scrapping
things. (I certainly don't smash them up.)
Post by HB
Post by VanguardLH
Post by HB
I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it was
almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter.
Some laptops won't run without a main battery installed. However, if
the main battery is dead, the laptop may not come up even when the
laptop's power adapter is plugged into A/C power. I'm not sure how the
circuitry is designed but I have seen some where the battery was used as
a capacitor in the power logic. If voltage regulation relies on a
I don't think those are common now though.
Post by HB
Post by VanguardLH
working main battery, try removing it. How old is the battery? Sounds
like it is too old and you need to replace it.
I don't _think_ your fault _is_ the battery, but _have_ you yet tried
booting it with the external power connected and the battery physically
removed? It's an easy thing to try.
Post by HB
It's the original battery. Was in the LT when relative gave it to me. BTW,
all it says on the Toshiba is Satalite. It's 64-bit.
Post by VanguardLH
F8 brings up the boot menu, not necessarily Windows safe mode. Once in
But even that boot menu is part of Windows, or at least part of what is
loaded from disc. Other options are other keys depending on model, and
_are_ part of the machine - the BIOS. (A long time ago, it was almost
always the delete key; then often one of the F keys. When I wanted to
change boot order recently on this Toshiba Protégé [to make an image], I
tried lots, and eventually had to download the manual, which told me it
was F12 _while_ turning the power on.) I think your system is not
getting as far as booting from disc as far as the boot menu, though why
that is we haven't determined yet.
[]
Post by HB
That's what I'm familiar with. Never saw that window yesterday. I finally
got a screen asking to insert the original CD. None exists so I guess I'm
out of options.
If it got that far, that message came from something loaded from the HD,
so the HD is at least working some of the time. It also _sounds_ like
the problem might be entirely software, i. e. some important OS file has
or files have been corrrupted. The call for the original CD means it was
going to lead you through recovery, which, depending on what has been
corrupted, might still be achievable with _an_ install CD rather than
_the_ official one; you might still be able to download one totally
appropriate to your machine, or more likely I'm sure you can get hold of
one (either by download or other means - even borrowing one) that would
_work_ even if not a total match.
Post by HB
Post by VanguardLH
However, that boot menu is presented by the kernel loader of Windows.
When you see the Advanced Options boot menu, you're already in Windows.
If Windows is corrupted, you might not get the F8 boot menu.
[]
Post by HB
The better half just said to remove the HD, give it a few good whacks with
the sledge hammer and dump them in the electronic recycle bin at the
Ouch. Don't give up yet.
Post by HB
dumpsters. I often take her advice. I appreciate everyone's time trying to
help.
I still think it's likely to be RAM, HD, or just corruption.

RAM - you were going to try reseating, cleaning, or ideally (but only
possible if there are more than one module) trying only one out of two.
If you want to _thouroughly_ check the RAM, it's easy, just takes time
(you don't have to be there though): if you download the best-known
test, which I think is called memtest86, it will actually fit on a
floppy (though as you are unlikely to have one can be put on a CD); this
is actually bootable from the floppy or CD, so will run without a hard
drive present at all: it is its own OS - it boots itself, then offers
you various tests on the RAM, which can run once or continuously; people
usually say run them for several hours or overnight. Since your fault
seems to be coming up fairly rapidly, I don't _think_ you'd need to do
_that_ thorough a test, though it might be worth doing more than the
minimum, as Windows may use the RAM in different ways.

Personally, I don't _think_ your RAM has "gone bad"; I've never had this
happen, though I certainly believe it can, and others here including
Paul have. I _have_ had them work loose, or get dirt in the contacts,
though.

HD: This is in some ways the most worrying possibility, as if it _is_
faulty, it's (especially from what you've described so far) likely to be
intermittent. Unless you're unlucky enough to have one of those laptops
where there isn't a cover over the HD, then take off the cover over the
HD, and listen - and perhaps feel - whether it's operating oddly (making
worrying noises, or vibrating oddly - or, sometimes not spinning up at
all). Difficult to tell by sound and feel, though, especially if you
haven't another machine to compare it to.

Depending on what you decide, and you may do the other things first,
other steps would be to take it out and connect it to another machine:
you're unlikely to have any other machine you can put it into as a
secondary drive (don't put it into a different machine as primary drive
and try to boot from it, that would likely corrupt things somewhat), so
that means either a desktop (best as you'd be going direct to the SATA),
or via some sort of USB interface. (Doesn't have to be a housing -
though the cheapest of those are cheaper than a "cable" or dock! - it
can be, indeed, a "cable" [these actually aren't just wires but have
electronics in them] or a dock.) _Ideally_, one with a separate power
supply, though housings may not have those. First, I'd then interrogate
the SMART data - that can be interrogated via a USB interface; there are
lots of utilities that will interrogate it (I use
https://www.passmark.com/products/diskcheckup.htm). Ideally, do it two
or more times, separated by a while, as you'll then see how things are
changing, if any are. (Several of the utilities, including the one I
use, will give you a predicted failure date if one of the important
parameters is worsening, though in a very simplistic manner as they just
use a straight-line prediction of when it'll fall below permissible -
I've had predicted dates like 2037! But it's useful to be able to see if
the parameters are changing.) You can also do assorted tests: how well
these will work through a USB link is variable, but they won't usually
do any _harm_. HDTune (if it works) will give (dropping) spikes; if
these are in the same place on two or more runs, they suggest a bad
patch. (Though if only one or two and they're narrow, that _can_ mean
there are faults, but they're being handled by the drive's own handling
mechanism, and can be lived with if they don't get worse. But keep an
eye on.)

Corruption: if it's just corruption of some important file, the main
concern is _how_ it happened: your description _implies_ you didn't shut
down improperly. However, increasingly with each version of Windows
(updates etc.) these can happen. Provided it's _not_ due to an
intermittent hardware fault, I suspect it can be restored no problem; at
worst (or perhaps one could say, least effort beyond a point), that
might involve reinstallation of Windows (though if it comes to that, use
the various utilities around to extract the product keys etc. first, if
you haven't got them), but I suspect, with the knowledge of those here,
that it needn't come to that. Use of the Recovery Console (from a CD if
necessary) would _probably_ suffice. [I said provided it's not due to
intermittent hardware; of course, even if it _is_, it should be
recoverable, but if that's the cause, it'll happen again.]

I _suspect_ the most likely fault, based on what you've described so
far, is corruption of one or more important files, followed by a loose
or dirty connection at the RAM or HD.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Security is the perfect excuse to lock you out of your own computer.
- Mayayana in alt.windows7.general, 2015-12-4
VanguardLH
2018-03-11 18:09:49 UTC
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Raw Message
VanguardLH wrote ...
Some laptops won't run without a [working] main battery installed.
I don't think those are common now though.
The OP isn't asking about recent hardware that is "common now". The OP
is asking about something that has sat in closet for many years while
its battery deteriorated and its CMOS battery died. Toshiba introduced
their Satellite family in the early 90's. As yet, we don't know what
model the OP has or its age.
If it got that far, that message came from something loaded from the HD,
so the HD is at least working some of the time. It also _sounds_ like
the problem might be entirely software, i. e. some important OS file has
or files have been corrrupted.
The HDD should be removable: open an access panel, remove a couple
screws (if used), and pull out the HDD. The laptop should boot to the
POST screen and then fail with a message saying the OS loader could not
be found. That would prove the laptop's hardware can do a cold boot.
Patrick
2018-03-11 21:17:50 UTC
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Post by HB
When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine, was
shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black screen
with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is
supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a screen
to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with 6
tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe
Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know how
to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7?
Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new. I
hate to recycle it.
I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it was
almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter.
Does this look like the LapTop that you are refering to;

https://support.toshiba.com/support/modelHome?freeText=2743964
HB
2018-03-13 02:00:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Patrick
Post by HB
When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine, was
shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black screen
with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is
supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a screen
to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with 6
tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe
Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know how
to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7?
Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new. I
hate to recycle it.
I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it was
almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter.
Does this look like the LapTop that you are refering to;
https://support.toshiba.com/support/modelHome?freeText=2743964
This looks like it. Please see my reply to VanguardLH of 9:54 above.
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