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C:\ Full
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freface
2018-07-06 15:25:27 UTC
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Win 7 Pro. All updates.

C:\ is full.
Deleted obvious stuff but only got 200MB freed.
Googled and got confused.

Please a little spoon feeding would help me.

WinSxS has 13G in the folder.

I do not see any other large file areas taking up space.

TreeSizeFree being used to look at C:

Suggestions please.
Big Al
2018-07-06 15:50:52 UTC
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Win 7 Pro.  All updates.
C:\ is full.
Deleted obvious stuff but only got 200MB freed.
Googled and got confused.
Please a little spoon feeding would help me.
WinSxS has 13G in the folder.
I do not see any other large file areas taking up space.
Suggestions please.
More Info. What is the original size of the Drive?

Don't touch WinSxS. Yes it's big.
Have you run the Windows disk cleanup as Admin? Not as user! Admin
will allow you to delete previous installations and downloads (if you
are sure you don't want to revert to a previous install that is).
😉 Good Guy 😉
2018-07-06 19:47:02 UTC
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Post by freface
Win 7 Pro. All updates.
C:\ is full.
Deleted obvious stuff but only got 200MB freed.
what are these "obvious stuff"? Obvious to you may not necessarily free
up enough disk space because you are a person of low intelligence.

Have you deleted everything from the temp folder that is in your profile
at this link:

<C:\Users\DummyFace\AppData\Local\Temp> You need to change DummyFace to
"freFace" or whatever turns you on.
Post by freface
Googled and got confused.
I am nt surprised. you don't have the necessary intelligence to use
Windows System.
Post by freface
Please a little spoon feeding would help me.
How old are you? Arlen Holder, a known Paedophile can do it for you.
He likes young boys.
Post by freface
I do not see any other large file areas taking up space.
No you can't see them because the Temp folder is hidden.
Post by freface
Suggestions please.
Sure there is another suggestion but try this first. The other solution
will free up about 1GB of space but this has to wait as you like to be
spoon fed.
Post by freface
/--- This email has been checked for viruses by
Windows Defender software.
//https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/comprehensive-security/
--
With over 950 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.
Lucifer Morningstar
2018-07-07 03:21:56 UTC
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On Fri, 6 Jul 2018 20:47:02 +0100, ? Good Guy ?
Post by 😉 Good Guy 😉
Post by freface
Win 7 Pro. All updates.
C:\ is full.
Deleted obvious stuff but only got 200MB freed.
what are these "obvious stuff"? Obvious to you may not necessarily free
up enough disk space because you are a person of low intelligence.
Have you deleted everything from the temp folder that is in your profile
<C:\Users\DummyFace\AppData\Local\Temp> You need to change DummyFace to
"freFace" or whatever turns you on.
Post by freface
Googled and got confused.
I am nt surprised. you don't have the necessary intelligence to use
Windows System.
Post by freface
Please a little spoon feeding would help me.
How old are you? Arlen Holder, a known Paedophile can do it for you.
He likes young boys.
Post by freface
I do not see any other large file areas taking up space.
No you can't see them because the Temp folder is hidden.
Post by freface
Suggestions please.
Sure there is another suggestion but try this first. The other solution
will free up about 1GB of space but this has to wait as you like to be
spoon fed.
format c: should work.
Keith Nuttle
2018-07-07 11:23:35 UTC
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Post by 😉 Good Guy 😉
try this first. The other solution
will free up about 1GB of space but this has to wait as you like to be
spoon fed.
In addition to
<C:\Users\DummyFace\AppData\Local\Temp>

There are other temp directories you can clean

c:/windows/Temp

c:/windows/temp/softwaredistribution
This directory can become large, especially if you have had installation
failures. I have delete literally thousands of files. It is best to
stop the update feature, but will work if you don't. If you don't,
there are files in /software/datastore that can not be deleted. They
are insignificant relative to the possible files in the other folders

Clear the caches on your browsers.

Delete some of the early restore points.

Delete any *.tmp files

Some programs backup parts of the installtion. Firefox will create
bookmark file backups forever. You need to go into the about:config and
limit it. browser.bookmarks.max_backups

I assume there are others in firefox and other browsers

All unused programs.
--
2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre
Keith Nuttle
2018-07-07 12:03:12 UTC
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Post by Keith Nuttle
try this first.  The other solution
will free up about 1GB of space but this has to wait as you like to be
spoon fed.
In addition to
<C:\Users\DummyFace\AppData\Local\Temp>
There are other temp directories you can clean
c:/windows/Temp
c:/windows/temp/softwaredistribution
This directory can become large, especially if you have had installation
failures.  I have delete literally thousands of files.  It is best to
stop the update feature, but will work if you don't.  If you don't,
there are files in /software/datastore  that can not be deleted.  They
are insignificant relative to the possible files in the other folders
Clear the caches on your browsers.
Delete some of the early restore points.
Delete any *.tmp files
Some programs backup parts of the installtion.  Firefox will create
bookmark file backups forever.  You need to go into the about:config and
limit it.  browser.bookmarks.max_backups
I assume there are others in firefox and other browsers
All unused programs.
When I wrote the above I assumed you have used the Disk Clean function
from the Disk Property, and cleaned the disk and system files.

If not this is where you should start
--
2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre
Stan Brown
2018-07-07 12:44:49 UTC
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Post by Keith Nuttle
In addition to
<C:\Users\DummyFace\AppData\Local\Temp>
There are other temp directories you can clean
c:/windows/Temp
c:/windows/temp/softwaredistribution
My copy of Windows 7 Home Premium does not have this directory. I
believe you meant

"C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution"

I have 881,877,855 bytes in 30 files and 32 dirs under this one. Are
we sure that it's okay to delete all of them. This won't for example,
cause Windows Update to take many hours next time I run it?
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://BrownMath.com/
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
Shikata ga nai...
Keith Nuttle
2018-07-07 12:56:27 UTC
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Post by Stan Brown
Post by Keith Nuttle
In addition to
<C:\Users\DummyFace\AppData\Local\Temp>
There are other temp directories you can clean
c:/windows/Temp
c:/windows/temp/softwaredistribution
My copy of Windows 7 Home Premium does not have this directory. I
believe you meant
"C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution"
I have 881,877,855 bytes in 30 files and 32 dirs under this one. Are
we sure that it's okay to delete all of them. This won't for example,
cause Windows Update to take many hours next time I run it?
Yes I stated the wrong path. It is
C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution

Isn't copy paste wonderfull ;-)
--
2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre
Big Al
2018-07-07 13:47:48 UTC
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Post by Stan Brown
Post by Keith Nuttle
In addition to
<C:\Users\DummyFace\AppData\Local\Temp>
There are other temp directories you can clean
c:/windows/Temp
c:/windows/temp/softwaredistribution
My copy of Windows 7 Home Premium does not have this directory. I
believe you meant
"C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution"
I have 881,877,855 bytes in 30 files and 32 dirs under this one. Are
we sure that it's okay to delete all of them. This won't for example,
cause Windows Update to take many hours next time I run it?
As for Software Distribution: There is a help file from MS that
directed me to delete that folder when I had an error doing a upgrade to
new build on the INsider preview version of 10. Then I was able to run
the get updates and the upgrade worked perfect.

So it should be okay. You sure there is close to a Tera Byte of data
there? Wow.
https://www.thewindowsclub.com/software-distribution-folder-in-windows
Keith Nuttle
2018-07-07 14:19:55 UTC
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Post by Keith Nuttle
In addition to
<C:\Users\DummyFace\AppData\Local\Temp>
There are other temp directories you can clean
c:/windows/Temp
c:/windows/temp/softwaredistribution
My copy of Windows 7 Home Premium does not have this directory.  I
believe you meant
"C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution"
I have 881,877,855 bytes in 30 files and 32 dirs under this one. Are
we sure that it's okay to delete all of them. This won't for example,
cause Windows Update to take many hours next time I run it?
As for Software Distribution:   There is a help file from MS that
directed me to delete that folder when I had an error doing a upgrade to
new build on the INsider preview version of 10.   Then I was able to run
the get updates and the upgrade worked perfect.
So it should be okay.  You sure there is close to a Tera Byte of data
there?  Wow.
https://www.thewindowsclub.com/software-distribution-folder-in-windows
I am the one who suggested deleting files in SoftwareDistribution, and I
can confirm that this folder can take up a lot of space. I never
checked the exact number of bytes, but I know I have spent hours
deleting the files.

One tip for the person with the problem. Before you start deleting
files in this directory, go into the properties of the Recycle bin
properties and check "Don't move files to Recycle bin. Remove files
immediately when deleted" This will make the process go smoothly.

Otherwise the recycle bin will fill up and stall the operation, as it
cleans itself out, or in some cases you have to clean the Recycle Bin
manually.

I routinely do this after a failed update and it never caused a problem.
Just to be safe after the folder has been cleaned run, Update
Troubleshooting. This will reestablish any pointers.
--
2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre
Char Jackson
2018-07-07 16:54:16 UTC
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On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 10:19:55 -0400, Keith Nuttle
Post by Keith Nuttle
I am the one who suggested deleting files in SoftwareDistribution, and I
can confirm that this folder can take up a lot of space. I never
checked the exact number of bytes, but I know I have spent hours
deleting the files.
Hi Keith,
I'm curious to hear why it took hours to delete those files, when I
think it should have taken less than a minute. Do you have any thoughts
on what was going on?
Paul
2018-07-07 17:57:59 UTC
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Post by Char Jackson
On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 10:19:55 -0400, Keith Nuttle
Post by Keith Nuttle
I am the one who suggested deleting files in SoftwareDistribution, and I
can confirm that this folder can take up a lot of space. I never
checked the exact number of bytes, but I know I have spent hours
deleting the files.
Hi Keith,
I'm curious to hear why it took hours to delete those files, when I
think it should have taken less than a minute. Do you have any thoughts
on what was going on?
I've experienced this (Win10 SoftwareDistribution) :-)

I think there were more than 8GB of tiny tiny files,
all unpacked in there via some crazy-ass "delta"
Upgrade procedure. I didn't care to count them,
because the deletion operation was already underway.
But it took... forever to finish. Poor I/O performance
on Windows 10, can be chalked up to Windows Defender,
which can interfere with the speed of just about
any operation.

Not all SoftwareDistribution runs are "self-cleaning".
Windows 10 seems to "clean" if the first Upgrade install attempt
fails. There might be a cleaning step thrown in. But there
have been cases, where users are obviously suffering
from an issue where whatever cleaning is supposed to
happen, no longer happens, and that folder gets
bigger and bigger. That wasn't my case. Mine was
a "single case of indigestion", and did not repeat.

Paul
Keith Nuttle
2018-07-07 18:25:06 UTC
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Post by Char Jackson
On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 10:19:55 -0400, Keith Nuttle
Post by Keith Nuttle
I am the one who suggested deleting files in SoftwareDistribution, and I
can confirm that this folder can take up a lot of space. I never
checked the exact number of bytes, but I know I have spent hours
deleting the files.
Hi Keith,
I'm curious to hear why it took hours to delete those files, when I
think it should have taken less than a minute. Do you have any thoughts
on what was going on?
Yes!
First there were many folders, sub folders and files. I have selected
all files in a folder and it has shown 6000 files area being deleted.

Second it was on my tablet which is limited memory and a slow processor.

I found an article mentioned earlier in this thread, and was shocked a
the number of files I found in this folder. When you are deleting that
many files even on a faster computer it takes some time.


The tablet is a touch tablet, which makes makes it a pain to make the
inputs, and I have never found how to do the operation mouse operation
Click, Shift Click to select multiple files on the touch screen.
Even if you do a select all, and delete; with thousands of files you
never know if the system is hung up or is working. (I can be a bit
impatient.) This is how I learned about setting the immediate delete
parameter in the Recycle bin.
--
2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre
Rene Lamontagne
2018-07-07 18:36:17 UTC
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Post by Keith Nuttle
Post by Char Jackson
On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 10:19:55 -0400, Keith Nuttle
Post by Keith Nuttle
I am the one who suggested deleting files in SoftwareDistribution, and I
can confirm that this folder can take up a lot of space.   I never
checked the exact number of bytes, but I know I have spent hours
deleting the files.
Hi Keith,
I'm curious to hear why it took hours to delete those files, when I
think it should have taken less than a minute. Do you have any thoughts
on what was going on?
Yes!
First there were many folders, sub folders and files. I have selected
all files in a folder and it has shown 6000 files area being deleted.
Second it was on my tablet which is limited memory and a slow processor.
I found an article mentioned earlier in this thread, and was shocked a
the number of files I found in this folder.  When you are deleting that
many files even on a faster computer it takes some time.
The tablet is a touch tablet, which makes makes it a pain to make the
inputs, and I have never found how to do the operation mouse operation
Click, Shift Click to select multiple files on the touch screen.
Even if you do a select all, and delete; with thousands of files you
never know if the system is hung up or is working.  (I can be a bit
impatient.)  This is how I learned about setting the immediate delete
parameter in the Recycle bin.
Just to make life easier I use a $15 keyboard wit a OTG adapter cable
with my touch tablet.

Rene
Char Jackson
2018-07-07 18:46:48 UTC
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On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 14:25:06 -0400, Keith Nuttle
Post by Keith Nuttle
Post by Char Jackson
On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 10:19:55 -0400, Keith Nuttle
Post by Keith Nuttle
I am the one who suggested deleting files in SoftwareDistribution, and I
can confirm that this folder can take up a lot of space. I never
checked the exact number of bytes, but I know I have spent hours
deleting the files.
Hi Keith,
I'm curious to hear why it took hours to delete those files, when I
think it should have taken less than a minute. Do you have any thoughts
on what was going on?
Yes!
First there were many folders, sub folders and files. I have selected
all files in a folder and it has shown 6000 files area being deleted.
Second it was on my tablet which is limited memory and a slow processor.
I found an article mentioned earlier in this thread, and was shocked a
the number of files I found in this folder. When you are deleting that
many files even on a faster computer it takes some time.
The tablet is a touch tablet, which makes makes it a pain to make the
inputs, and I have never found how to do the operation mouse operation
Click, Shift Click to select multiple files on the touch screen.
Even if you do a select all, and delete; with thousands of files you
never know if the system is hung up or is working. (I can be a bit
impatient.) This is how I learned about setting the immediate delete
parameter in the Recycle bin.
Thanks, Keith, and thanks also to Paul for contributing his experience,
as well. I guess I've seen something similar when I needed to delete
over 100,000 jpg images and it took much longer than I expected. Not
hours, but several minutes, as I recall. On XP, that same operation used
to take about 10-20 seconds.
Paul
2018-07-07 23:52:54 UTC
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Post by Char Jackson
On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 14:25:06 -0400, Keith Nuttle
Post by Keith Nuttle
Post by Char Jackson
On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 10:19:55 -0400, Keith Nuttle
Post by Keith Nuttle
I am the one who suggested deleting files in SoftwareDistribution, and I
can confirm that this folder can take up a lot of space. I never
checked the exact number of bytes, but I know I have spent hours
deleting the files.
Hi Keith,
I'm curious to hear why it took hours to delete those files, when I
think it should have taken less than a minute. Do you have any thoughts
on what was going on?
Yes!
First there were many folders, sub folders and files. I have selected
all files in a folder and it has shown 6000 files area being deleted.
Second it was on my tablet which is limited memory and a slow processor.
I found an article mentioned earlier in this thread, and was shocked a
the number of files I found in this folder. When you are deleting that
many files even on a faster computer it takes some time.
The tablet is a touch tablet, which makes makes it a pain to make the
inputs, and I have never found how to do the operation mouse operation
Click, Shift Click to select multiple files on the touch screen.
Even if you do a select all, and delete; with thousands of files you
never know if the system is hung up or is working. (I can be a bit
impatient.) This is how I learned about setting the immediate delete
parameter in the Recycle bin.
Thanks, Keith, and thanks also to Paul for contributing his experience,
as well. I guess I've seen something similar when I needed to delete
over 100,000 jpg images and it took much longer than I expected. Not
hours, but several minutes, as I recall. On XP, that same operation used
to take about 10-20 seconds.
There is a stark difference, between how Explorer.exe
works when dealing with files, and how a shell-level
FindNext works.

I can do "dir" in a Command Prompt window, and easily list
8 million files in the window. They're sorted in alphabetical
order in three columns. That means the command knew pretty
close to the beginning of the output, what it had to do.

Explorer.exe on the other hand, fails in the simplest
and least taxing of situations. It should be a
"case study for CS class" for somebody.

What I can't figure out, is how "dir" and FindNext
are able to sort a 40GB $MFT in no time at all, and
start outputting file names... in alphabetical order.
It's fast enough that "there's got to be a trick".

Whereas with File Explorer, around 1 million files is
a practical upper limit for "expecting the window
to ever paint". And you can find/create failure
test cases for Explorer with as few as 60,000 files
in a single folder (the window will have a "busy icon"
forever).

Paul
Char Jackson
2018-07-08 00:50:16 UTC
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Post by Paul
There is a stark difference, between how Explorer.exe
works when dealing with files, and how a shell-level
FindNext works.
I can do "dir" in a Command Prompt window, and easily list
8 million files in the window. They're sorted in alphabetical
order in three columns. That means the command knew pretty
close to the beginning of the output, what it had to do.
Explorer.exe on the other hand, fails in the simplest
and least taxing of situations. It should be a
"case study for CS class" for somebody.
What I can't figure out, is how "dir" and FindNext
are able to sort a 40GB $MFT in no time at all, and
start outputting file names... in alphabetical order.
It's fast enough that "there's got to be a trick".
Whereas with File Explorer, around 1 million files is
a practical upper limit for "expecting the window
to ever paint". And you can find/create failure
test cases for Explorer with as few as 60,000 files
in a single folder (the window will have a "busy icon"
forever).
I've wondered the same things and I have no real answers. If they really
wanted to, I'm sure they could address each of those performance issues,
but I can only conclude that they don't want to.
Mayayana
2018-07-08 01:58:36 UTC
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"Paul" <***@needed.invalid> wrote

| There is a stark difference, between how Explorer.exe
| works when dealing with files, and how a shell-level
| FindNext works.
|
| I can do "dir" in a Command Prompt window, and easily list
| 8 million files in the window. They're sorted in alphabetical
| order in three columns. That means the command knew pretty
| close to the beginning of the output, what it had to do.
|

Explorer is using FindFirstFile/FindNextFile and
may even be using something better under the
surface -- Microsoft's private stock. But it also
has to deal with showing icons, calculating time
remaining with deletes, managing shell extensions,
etc. In other words, the API is just dealing with
the file system. Explorer is primarily GUI functionality.
And it's still tied into IE.

If you look at it in Depends or a similar program
you can see that kernel and ntdll are only a small
part of what Explorer is dealing with It's loading
wininet (IE) to parse URLs, uxtheme for the GUI
theme, user32 for drawing and tracking down user
display preferences, gdi for display, some unnamed
functions from shdocvw (IE again).... Plus there are
things like ole, browseui.dll and version.dll for
collecting file info, properties, default icon, media
info, etc. If you're going to deal with files in a folder
in the Windows GUI, all of that comes into play.
Stan Brown
2018-07-08 02:08:08 UTC
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Post by Paul
What I can't figure out, is how "dir" and FindNext
are able to sort a 40GB $MFT in no time at all, and
start outputting file names... in alphabetical order.
It's fast enough that "there's got to be a trick".
I think the file entries in an NTFS system are maintained in a
structure that lends itself to alphabetical searches. It's why pretty
much anything you do -- copy, for instance -- is in alphabetical
order in NTFS but not in FAT32.
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://BrownMath.com/
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
Shikata ga nai...
Stan Brown
2018-07-08 02:05:48 UTC
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Post by Keith Nuttle
The tablet is a touch tablet, which makes makes it a pain to make the
inputs, and I have never found how to do the operation mouse operation
Click, Shift Click to select multiple files on the touch screen.
Ctrl+A selects all files in the current folder.

Of course there's also the command prompt.
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://BrownMath.com/
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
Shikata ga nai...
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-07-08 02:23:51 UTC
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Post by Stan Brown
Post by Keith Nuttle
The tablet is a touch tablet, which makes makes it a pain to make the
inputs, and I have never found how to do the operation mouse operation
Click, Shift Click to select multiple files on the touch screen.
Ctrl+A selects all files in the current folder.
Yes, but Keith might have wanted to select, say, 7 files, or a range of
files, rather than all of them.
Post by Stan Brown
Of course there's also the command prompt.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

It's OK to be tight on
The seafront at Brighton
But I say, by Jove
Watch out if it's Hove.
- Sister Monica Joan, quoted by Jennifer Worth (author of the Call the
Midwife books, quoted in Radio Times 19-25 January 2013)
Paul
2018-07-08 03:00:08 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Stan Brown
Post by Keith Nuttle
The tablet is a touch tablet, which makes makes it a pain to make the
inputs, and I have never found how to do the operation mouse operation
Click, Shift Click to select multiple files on the touch screen.
Ctrl+A selects all files in the current folder.
Yes, but Keith might have wanted to select, say, 7 files, or a range of
files, rather than all of them.
Post by Stan Brown
Of course there's also the command prompt.
Some combination of control, alt, and shift,
allows extending a selection with "holes" in it.

It's control-alt that allows mousing and selecting
separate items. They don't have to be touching one another.

You can also select "chunks" and add them while holding
down those keys.

Loading Image...

Paul
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-07-08 10:21:22 UTC
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Post by Paul
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Stan Brown
Post by Keith Nuttle
The tablet is a touch tablet, which makes makes it a pain to make the
inputs, and I have never found how to do the operation mouse operation
Click, Shift Click to select multiple files on the touch screen.
Ctrl+A selects all files in the current folder.
Yes, but Keith might have wanted to select, say, 7 files, or a range of
files, rather than all of them.
Post by Stan Brown
Of course there's also the command prompt.
Some combination of control, alt, and shift,
allows extending a selection with "holes" in it.
It's control-alt that allows mousing and selecting
separate items. They don't have to be touching one another.
I know those, and I think Keith does too: I think he was just saying he
was finding them near-impossible on a touch-screen device (no real
keyboard or mouse).
Post by Paul
You can also select "chunks" and add them while holding
down those keys.
https://s22.postimg.cc/xe221hskx/extended_selection.gif
Paul
Not sure how I'd select a chunk and add it to an existing selection -
the action of starting to select the chunk would I think deselect
anything already selected. But no matter! I think Keith's comment above
was about the difficulty of using a touch screen as the _only_ input.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Never raise your hand to your children. It leaves your mid-section unprotected
Paul
2018-07-08 10:41:12 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Paul
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Stan Brown
Post by Keith Nuttle
The tablet is a touch tablet, which makes makes it a pain to make the
inputs, and I have never found how to do the operation mouse operation
Click, Shift Click to select multiple files on the touch screen.
Ctrl+A selects all files in the current folder.
Yes, but Keith might have wanted to select, say, 7 files, or a range of
files, rather than all of them.
Post by Stan Brown
Of course there's also the command prompt.
Some combination of control, alt, and shift,
allows extending a selection with "holes" in it.
It's control-alt that allows mousing and selecting
separate items. They don't have to be touching one another.
I know those, and I think Keith does too: I think he was just saying he
was finding them near-impossible on a touch-screen device (no real
keyboard or mouse).
Post by Paul
You can also select "chunks" and add them while holding
down those keys.
https://s22.postimg.cc/xe221hskx/extended_selection.gif
Paul
Not sure how I'd select a chunk and add it to an existing selection -
the action of starting to select the chunk would I think deselect
anything already selected. But no matter! I think Keith's comment above
was about the difficulty of using a touch screen as the _only_ input.
You might need some sort of sticky keys solution,
where pressing some keys sequentially, builds up
a hotkey-combo for you.

Having had the misfortune, of using a tiny touch
device just a couple days ago, I can sympathize with
the problems of operating them. What rubbish!!!

I'm thinking "Bluetooth keyboard for the win".
If you need to do extensive data entry, and not
watch music videos on it, then get a keyboard.

Paul
Keith Nuttle
2018-07-08 11:50:09 UTC
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Post by Paul
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Paul
Post by Stan Brown
Post by Keith Nuttle
The tablet is a touch tablet, which makes makes it a pain to make the
inputs, and I have never found how to do the operation mouse operation
Click, Shift Click to select multiple files on the touch screen.
Ctrl+A selects all files in the current folder.
 Yes, but Keith might have wanted to select, say, 7 files, or a
range of
files, rather than all of them.
Post by Stan Brown
Of course there's also the command prompt.
Some combination of control, alt, and shift,
allows extending a selection with "holes" in it.
It's control-alt that allows mousing and selecting
separate items. They don't have to be touching one another.
I know those, and I think Keith does too: I think he was just saying
he was finding them near-impossible on a touch-screen device (no real
keyboard or mouse).
Post by Paul
You can also select "chunks" and add them while holding
down those keys.
https://s22.postimg.cc/xe221hskx/extended_selection.gif
  Paul
Not sure how I'd select a chunk and add it to an existing selection -
the action of starting to select the chunk would I think deselect
anything already selected. But no matter! I think Keith's comment
above was about the difficulty of using a touch screen as the _only_
input.
You might need some sort of sticky keys solution,
where pressing some keys sequentially, builds up
a hotkey-combo for you.
Having had the misfortune, of using a tiny touch
device just a couple days ago, I can sympathize with
the problems of operating them. What rubbish!!!
I'm thinking "Bluetooth keyboard for the win".
If you need to do extensive data entry, and not
watch music videos on it, then get a keyboard.
   Paul
If you need to do extensive data entry work, get a laptop.

I find it amazing that people praise the smartphone and touch tablet,
and then run down to Walmart and by keyboards and other peripherals to
make it a laptop.

While the keyboard idea is great, with my small tablet there is one port
that accepts the power cord, the keyboard, etc.

When you have to do things like remove thousands of files, it needs to
be plugged in, so it is difficult to have a keyboard or mouse attached
to the tablet, and have sufficient energy that it will not die during
the task you are trying to do.
--
2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre
Ant
2018-07-09 01:03:12 UTC
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In alt.comp.os.windows-10 Keith Nuttle <***@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
...
Post by Keith Nuttle
If you need to do extensive data entry work, get a laptop.
I find it amazing that people praise the smartphone and touch tablet,
and then run down to Walmart and by keyboards and other peripherals to
make it a laptop.
While the keyboard idea is great, with my small tablet there is one port
that accepts the power cord, the keyboard, etc.
When you have to do things like remove thousands of files, it needs to
be plugged in, so it is difficult to have a keyboard or mouse attached
to the tablet, and have sufficient energy that it will not die during
the task you are trying to do.
For me, I dislike smartphones and tablets. I still prefer computers with
clicky keyboards, big monitors, etc. Yes, I'm old. Get off my lawn. :P
--
Quote of the Week: "I got worms! That's what we're going to call it.
We're going to specialize in selling worm farms. You know like ant
farms. What's the matter, a little tense about the flight?" --Lloyd
Christmas (Dumb and Dumber movie)
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org / http://antfarm.ma.cx
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
| |o o| | ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and URL/link.
\ _ /
( )
rp
2018-07-08 13:26:35 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Not sure how I'd select a chunk and add it to an existing selection -
the action of starting to select the chunk would I think deselect
anything already selected. But no matter! I think Keith's comment above
was about the difficulty of using a touch screen as the _only_ input.
What's wrong with turning off the windows update service and deleting
the whole softwaredistribution directory and contents? It worked for me
when I had a problem.
--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail rpont (at) gmail (dot) com
😉 Good Guy 😉
2018-07-07 18:30:53 UTC
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Post by Keith Nuttle
I am the one who suggested deleting files in SoftwareDistribution, and
I can confirm that this folder can take up a lot of space. I never
checked the exact number of bytes, but I know I have spent hours
deleting the files.
But you forgot to tell the OP, a person of low intelligence, that by
deleting the files in SoftwareDistribution folder he would lose the
history of his updates and as this is very important to him he will
start swearing and cursing at you.

As to exact number of bytes, it shouldn't be a lot if the machine
managed to update it without any problems. The update program should be
able to clean up the leftovers after updating the system. The only time
you need to delete the files is when the update is corrupted and so all
the downloaded files remain in that folder. Don't you think so Mr
Nuttle? Can you give us some more info about this. That paedophile by
the name of Arlen Holder is archiving this on his "tribal whatever"
website and now he's been outed as paedophile. This will be on
permanent record for people to search him out.

England have reached the Semi-Final of the World Cup and now they have a
very good chance of winning it unless the Russians sabotage their food
to prevent them doing so. Russians have piled up "Nerve Agents" to kill
British Citizens as you may know this is well documented from your
background working for them as their Chemical Engineer.
Post by Keith Nuttle
/--- This email has been checked for viruses by
Windows Defender software.
//https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/comprehensive-security/
--
With over 950 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.
Keith Nuttle
2018-07-07 18:44:04 UTC
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Post by 😉 Good Guy 😉
Post by Keith Nuttle
I am the one who suggested deleting files in SoftwareDistribution, and
I can confirm that this folder can take up a lot of space.   I never
checked the exact number of bytes, but I know I have spent hours
deleting the files.
But you forgot to tell the OP, a person of low intelligence, that by
deleting the files in SoftwareDistribution folder he would lose the
history of his updates and as this is very important to him he will
start swearing and cursing at you.
As to exact number of bytes, it shouldn't be a lot if the machine
managed to update it without any problems.  The update program should be
able to clean up the leftovers after updating the system. The only time
you need to delete the files is when the update is corrupted and so all
the downloaded files remain in that folder. Don't you think so Mr
Nuttle?  Can you give us some more info about this.  That paedophile by
the name of Arlen Holder is archiving this on his "tribal whatever"
website and now he's been outed as paedophile.  This will be on
permanent record for people to search him out.
England have reached the Semi-Final of the World Cup and now they have a
very good chance of winning it unless the Russians sabotage their food
to prevent them doing so.  Russians have piled up "Nerve Agents" to kill
British Citizens as you may know this is well documented from your
background working for them as their Chemical Engineer.
Post by Keith Nuttle
/--- This email has been checked for viruses by
Windows Defender software.
//https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/comprehensive-security/
--
With over 950 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.
Two things

If the logs in the Datastore folder are not deleted, he will not loose
his update history. To me that does not make any difference so all of
those log files get deleted. The java files? can not be deleted if you
don't turn off the update program.

If you are working in limited disk space as the OP and I are working,
updates fail leaving a lot of garbage.
--
2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre
Stan Brown
2018-07-08 02:04:17 UTC
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Post by Keith Nuttle
One tip for the person with the problem. Before you start deleting
files in this directory, go into the properties of the Recycle bin
properties and check "Don't move files to Recycle bin. Remove files
immediately when deleted" This will make the process go smoothly.
Or, use Shift-Delete instead of Delete. That bypasses the Recycle Bin
for that one operation only, so that you don't need to remember to go
back and change your Recycle Bin settings a second time.
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://BrownMath.com/
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
Shikata ga nai...
Stan Brown
2018-07-08 02:02:56 UTC
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Post by Big Al
Post by Stan Brown
"C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution"
I have 881,877,855 bytes in 30 files and 32 dirs under this one. Are
we sure that it's okay to delete all of them. This won't for example,
cause Windows Update to take many hours next time I run it?
You sure there is close to a Tera Byte of data
there? Wow.
Nope -- close to a gigabyte.

I think it was Heinlein who said all large numbers were the same. :-)
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://BrownMath.com/
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
Shikata ga nai...
Mayayana
2018-07-07 14:23:28 UTC
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"Keith Nuttle" <***@sbcglobal.net> wrote

| There are other temp directories you can clean
|
| c:/windows/Temp
|

Also, C:\TEMP should be checked.

Note, however, that this was originally posted
only in Win7.

Good Guy cross-posted to Win10, apparently
so that he could spread his nastiness further
with less effort. It could be that some things don't
apply to both 7 and 10. (I have SoftwareDistribution
on Win7, but there's only 130 MB in there. I also
have it on XP but that one is less than 2 MB and
seems to be unused.)
Mayayana
2018-07-06 21:09:15 UTC
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"freface" <***@freface.com> wrote| Win 7 Pro. All updates.
|
| C:\ is full.
| Deleted obvious stuff but only got 200MB freed.
| Googled and got confused.
|

As Big Al said, it doesn't tell us much if you don't say
how big it is.
One option is to reinstall to get Winsxs back to 4-ish GB.
Then make a disk image so you'll be able to do that more
easily in the future.

Following is a script I use. Paste it into Notepad, save
as Folder Sizes.vbs, then run it. In the prompt type
C:\. It will produce a file in the root of C drive showing
folder sizes, starting with the biggest.
That will help if there's something big that you don't
know about. Backed up email, browser cache, and stored
program files can all take up a lot of space if you don't
clean them up.

'---------- begin script -----------
'-- Note: Watch out for wordwrap. This script is
'-- written to avoid long lines, so it should be OK.

Dim FSO, s1, s2, TS, sDriv, APath(), ASize(), iCnt, iTotal, i2

s1 = "Enter path of folder to list sizes of all subfolders."
s1 = s1 & " For a drive enter X:\, where X is the drive letter."
sDriv = InputBox(s1, "List Folder Sizes")

If Len(sDriv) < 3 Then WScript.quit

Set FSO = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject")

On Error Resume Next

iTotal = 500
ReDim APath(iTotal)
ReDim ASize(iTotal)
iCnt = 0

GetFolderSizes(sDriv)

iCnt = iCnt - 1
ReDim Preserve ASize(iCnt)
ReDim Preserve APath(iCnt)

QuickSort ASize, APath, 0, 0

For i2 = iCnt to 0 step -1
s2 = s2 & APath(i2) & " -- " & CStr(ASize(i2)) & " MB" & vbCrLf
Next

s1 = "Sizes of folders in " & sDriv & vbCrLf
s1 = s1 & "(Note: Sizes are in MB. A size of 0 indicates the"
s1 = s1 & " size is between 0 and 1 MB.)" & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & s2


Set TS = FSO.CreateTextFile("C:\Folder Sizes" & left(sDriv, 1) & ".txt",
True)
TS.Write s2
TS.Close
Set TS = Nothing

MsgBox "List for " & sDriv & " is saved to C:\Folder Sizes.txt", 64

Sub GetFolderSizes(sPath)
Dim oFol, oFols, oFol1, iSz, sList, s
On Error Resume Next

APath(iCnt) = sPath
Set oFol = FSO.GetFolder(sPath)
iSz = oFol.Size
If iSz > 1024 Then iSz = iSz / 1024: Else iSz = 0
If iSz > 1024 Then iSz = iSz / 1024: Else iSz = 0
iSz = CInt(iSz)
ASize(iCnt) = iSz

iCnt = iCnt + 1
If iCnt + 10 > iTotal Then
iTotal = iTotal + 200
ReDim Preserve APath(iTotal)
ReDim Preserve ASize(iTotal)
End If

Set oFols = oFol.SubFolders
If oFols.count > 0 Then
For Each oFol1 in oFols
GetFolderSizes(oFol1.Path)
Next
End If
Set oFols = Nothing
Set oFol = Nothing
End Sub

Sub QuickSort(AIn1, AIn2, LBeg, LEnd)
Dim LBeg2, vMid, LEnd2, vSwap1, vSwap2
On Error Resume Next
If (LEnd = 0) Then LEnd = UBound(AIn1)
LBeg2 = LBeg
LEnd2 = LEnd
vMid = AIn1((LBeg + LEnd) \ 2)
Do
Do While AIn1(LBeg2) < vMid And LBeg2 < LEnd
LBeg2 = LBeg2 + 1
Loop
Do While vMid < AIn1(LEnd2) And LEnd2 > LBeg
LEnd2 = LEnd2 - 1
Loop
If LBeg2 <= LEnd2 Then
vSwap1 = AIn1(LBeg2)
vSwap2 = AIn2(LBeg2)

AIn1(LBeg2) = AIn1(LEnd2)
AIn2(LBeg2) = AIn2(LEnd2)

AIn1(LEnd2) = vSwap1
AIn2(LEnd2) = vSwap2

LBeg2 = LBeg2 + 1
LEnd2 = LEnd2 - 1
End If
Loop Until LBeg2 > LEnd2
If LBeg < LEnd2 Then QuickSort AIn1, AIn2, LBeg, LEnd2
If LBeg2 < LEnd Then QuickSort AIn1, AIn2, LBeg2, LEnd
End Sub


'--------end script ---------------
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-07-07 11:12:23 UTC
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In message <pholpq$dep$***@dont-email.me>, Mayayana
<***@invalid.nospam> writes:
[]
Post by Mayayana
'---------- begin script -----------
'-- Note: Watch out for wordwrap. This script is
'-- written to avoid long lines, so it should be OK.
Dim FSO, s1, s2, TS, sDriv, APath(), ASize(), iCnt, iTotal, i2
s1 = "Enter path of folder to list sizes of all subfolders."
s1 = s1 & " For a drive enter X:\, where X is the drive letter."
sDriv = InputBox(s1, "List Folder Sizes")
[rest snipped]
Strange: it has come out OK in the above quote. But when I read the
original post, I see:

'---------- begin script -----------
'-- Note: Watch out for wordwrap. This script is '-- written to avoid
long lines, so it should be OK.

Dim FSO, s1, s2, TS, sDriv, APath(), ASize(), iCnt, iTotal, i2

s1 = "Enter path of folder to list sizes of all subfolders." s1 = s1 & "
For a drive enter X:\, where X is the drive letter." sDriv =
InputBox(s1, "List Folder Sizes")
[rest snipped]

In other words, the newlines after "is" and before the second "s1" and
before "sDriv" have been swallowed somewhere (only to reappear when I
quote!).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Imagine a world with no hypothetical situations...
Mayayana
2018-07-07 12:47:39 UTC
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"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG-***@255soft.uk> wrote
|
| s1 = "Enter path of folder to list sizes of all subfolders." s1 = s1 & "
| For a drive enter X:\, where X is the drive letter." sDriv =
| InputBox(s1, "List Folder Sizes")
| [rest snipped]
|
| In other words, the newlines after "is" and before the second "s1" and
| before "sDriv" have been swallowed somewhere (only to reappear when I
| quote!).

This is the same issue you were talking about
last week, isn't it? I wonder if maybe Turnpike
is just disallowing returns in email as being non-
compliant, stripping them out, then formatting
the lines to 76 characters or less.

It's a bizarre behavior that ignores the rules of
English composition, assuming that all written text
in an email should be a single stream.
How ironic that a Brit would be the one using
such software. :)

I try to structure scripts I post to not be
corruptbile by email software, by making the lines
short. In your case that doesn't seem to be possible.

In case anyone can't get a usable script out
of my post, I also have a copy in my "handy
desktop scripts" download:

https://www.jsware.net/jsware/scrfiles.php5#desk

By sorting folder paths in terms of folder size it's
easy to quickly see where the bulk is. Sometimes
it's surprising. One friend had several GBs of email
in Thunderbird, due to friends sending big pictures
that she didn't delete. In another case, a blind friend
was using special software to download audio books.
I had specifically set it up to save the files on a data
drive, but the software was poorly designed. It still
saved a 2nd copy in the program's app data folder,
anyway -- quickly filling C drive, so that the folder
had to be purged periodically.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-07-07 16:03:33 UTC
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In message <phqcpa$id5$***@dont-email.me>, Mayayana
<***@invalid.nospam> writes:
[]
Post by Mayayana
This is the same issue you were talking about
last week, isn't it? I wonder if maybe Turnpike
is just disallowing returns in email as being non-
compliant, stripping them out, then formatting
the lines to 76 characters or less.
Odder and odder! The above paragraph, when I read it in the original
post, has _longer_ lines - it wraps after "I", "being", and "76". But it
_does_ wrap there - the lines don't continue off the right edge, as they
do in a few posts.
Post by Mayayana
It's a bizarre behavior that ignores the rules of
English composition, assuming that all written text
in an email should be a single stream.
It certainly is very odd. The other line breaks in your code remain -
for example:
---
iCnt = iCnt - 1
ReDim Preserve ASize(iCnt)
ReDim Preserve APath(iCnt)

QuickSort ASize, APath, 0, 0

For i2 = iCnt to 0 step -1
s2 = s2 & APath(i2) & " -- " & CStr(ASize(i2)) & " MB" & vbCrLf
Next
---
I'd thought maybe it was only long lines, but the s2= line above is
long.
Post by Mayayana
How ironic that a Brit would be the one using
such software. :)
It was written by Brits! I think mainly Richard Clayton of Locomotive
Software. (I _think_ they also wrote the word processor - was it called
Locoscript? - for the original Amstrad word processor. History!)
Post by Mayayana
I try to structure scripts I post to not be
corruptbile by email software, by making the lines
It is appreciated.
Post by Mayayana
short. In your case that doesn't seem to be possible.
Does seem odd! I can usually figure out where things have gone wrong - I
speak general code, though not this particular language.
Post by Mayayana
In case anyone can't get a usable script out
of my post, I also have a copy in my "handy
https://www.jsware.net/jsware/scrfiles.php5#desk
Thanks, noted.
Post by Mayayana
By sorting folder paths in terms of folder size it's
easy to quickly see where the bulk is. Sometimes
I like WinDirStat, and Scanner, for those. But people vary a lot: I
remember saying that in a similar discussion, and one of the
participants hated them!
Post by Mayayana
it's surprising. One friend had several GBs of email
in Thunderbird, due to friends sending big pictures
that she didn't delete. In another case, a blind friend
Yes, I _never_ keep attachments in emails; if they are something I want
to keep, I save (export, whatever) them, and remove them from the email;
Turnpike can do this, as can Outlook, and I think Thunderbird and
Outlook Express - while still keeping any _text_ in the email if wanted.
Post by Mayayana
was using special software to download audio books.
I had specifically set it up to save the files on a data
drive, but the software was poorly designed. It still
saved a 2nd copy in the program's app data folder,
anyway -- quickly filling C drive, so that the folder
had to be purged periodically.
I have found software for the blind varies considerably in quality, from
very good to poor. As with most other types I suppose.
3
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

But this can only happen if we replace the urge to blame with the urge to
learn so that it is safe for staff to admit errors and raise concerns without
the fear of being punished.
- Former MI5 boss Eliza Manningham-Buller, RT 2016/5/7-13
Mayayana
2018-07-07 17:11:58 UTC
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"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG-***@255soft.uk> wrote

| Odder and odder! The above paragraph, when I read it in the original
| post, has _longer_ lines - it wraps after "I", "being", and "76". But it
| _does_ wrap there - the lines don't continue off the right edge, as they
| do in a few posts.
| >
| > It's a bizarre behavior that ignores the rules of
| >English composition, assuming that all written text
| >in an email should be a single stream.
|
| It certainly is very odd.

Your description above fits the proposal that it's
dropping all returns and then splitting them at < 76.


The other line breaks in your code remain -
| for example:
| ---
| iCnt = iCnt - 1
| ReDim Preserve ASize(iCnt)
| ReDim Preserve APath(iCnt)
|
| QuickSort ASize, APath, 0, 0
|
| For i2 = iCnt to 0 step -1
| s2 = s2 & APath(i2) & " -- " & CStr(ASize(i2)) & " MB" & vbCrLf
| Next
| ---
| I'd thought maybe it was only long lines, but the s2= line above is
| long.
|
But it's under 70 characters. Without the
prepended spaces I see 65 characters. The
question, then, is why it's leaving returns on
some short lines. It's as though it recognizes
code vs prose.

| > How ironic that a Brit would be the one using
| >such software. :)
|
| It was written by Brits!

Can't trust *anyone* these days.

| I have found software for the blind varies considerably in quality, from
| very good to poor. As with most other types I suppose.

I was trying to remember what this was that stored
redundant file copies despite the setting chosen. It might
be the specific software for the Learning Ally website,
but I'm not certain. I do remember that their whole
operation was poorly designed. It wasn't even possible
to choose an item in the webpage dropdown without
a mouse, at least at one point!
Char Jackson
2018-07-07 17:14:36 UTC
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On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 17:03:33 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Mayayana
By sorting folder paths in terms of folder size it's
easy to quickly see where the bulk is. Sometimes
I like WinDirStat, and Scanner, for those. But people vary a lot: I
remember saying that in a similar discussion, and one of the
participants hated them!
That was possibly me. :-) When I tried WinDirStat, I hated it and found
it to be utterly useless except as a trinket. Instead, when I tried
Treesize Free, I instantly loved it. Seeing how well it worked, I
hurriedly tried Treesize Pro, which I didn't like at all.

We're each a little different. What one loves, another hates. :)
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Mayayana
it's surprising. One friend had several GBs of email
in Thunderbird, due to friends sending big pictures
that she didn't delete. In another case, a blind friend
Yes, I _never_ keep attachments in emails; if they are something I want
to keep, I save (export, whatever) them, and remove them from the email;
Turnpike can do this, as can Outlook, and I think Thunderbird and
Outlook Express - while still keeping any _text_ in the email if wanted.
We're different here, as well. I sometimes _save_ attachments so that
they're easier to access and work on, but I _never_ delete an attachment
from the email which carried it.
--
Char Jackson
Paul
2018-07-07 14:38:52 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Mayayana
'---------- begin script -----------
'-- Note: Watch out for wordwrap. This script is
'-- written to avoid long lines, so it should be OK.
Dim FSO, s1, s2, TS, sDriv, APath(), ASize(), iCnt, iTotal, i2
s1 = "Enter path of folder to list sizes of all subfolders."
s1 = s1 & " For a drive enter X:\, where X is the drive letter."
sDriv = InputBox(s1, "List Folder Sizes")
[rest snipped]
Strange: it has come out OK in the above quote. But when I read the
'---------- begin script -----------
'-- Note: Watch out for wordwrap. This script is '-- written to avoid
long lines, so it should be OK.
Dim FSO, s1, s2, TS, sDriv, APath(), ASize(), iCnt, iTotal, i2
s1 = "Enter path of folder to list sizes of all subfolders." s1 = s1 & "
For a drive enter X:\, where X is the drive letter." sDriv =
InputBox(s1, "List Folder Sizes")
[rest snipped]
In other words, the newlines after "is" and before the second "s1" and
before "sDriv" have been swallowed somewhere (only to reappear when I
quote!).
Take the <MID> from the message and look it up on HowardKnight ?

http://al.howardknight.net/

http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&A=0&MSGI=%3Cpholpq%24dep%241%40dont-email.me%3E

Paul
Paul in Houston TX
2018-07-07 00:52:38 UTC
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Post by freface
Win 7 Pro. All updates.
C:\ is full.
Deleted obvious stuff but only got 200MB freed.
Googled and got confused.
Please a little spoon feeding would help me.
WinSxS has 13G in the folder.
I do not see any other large file areas taking up space.
Suggestions please.
Install and run CCleaner. https://www.ccleaner.com/
Get it from the correct website, not a trojan spam site.
Mayayana
2018-07-07 01:10:58 UTC
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"freface" <***@freface.com> wrote

...

Another notable way to save a lot of space:

Disable hibernation.
Disable swap file or put one only on a non-C drive.

Having done those things, hiberfil.sys and
pagefile.sys can be deleted from C drive.
freface
2018-07-07 18:18:36 UTC
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So hibernation is set to NEVER for both AC and Battery

So how do I delete hiberfil.sys ???
Post by Mayayana
....
Disable hibernation.
Disable swap file or put one only on a non-C drive.
Having done those things, hiberfil.sys and
pagefile.sys can be deleted from C drive.
KenW
2018-07-07 20:21:04 UTC
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Post by freface
So hibernation is set to NEVER for both AC and Battery
So how do I delete hiberfil.sys ???
Post by Mayayana
....
Disable hibernation.
Disable swap file or put one only on a non-C drive.
Having done those things, hiberfil.sys and
pagefile.sys can be deleted from C drive.
From an Admistrator's Command Prompt powercft -h off


KenW
Mayayana
2018-07-07 20:42:20 UTC
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"KenW" <***@nono.net> wrote

| >So how do I delete hiberfil.sys ???
| >
| From an Admistrator's Command Prompt powercft -h off


I guess that's fine, but I don't remember ever having
to do anything special to delete it, as long as it's not
in use. Same with pagefile.sys. As long as it's moved
off of C drive, the file should delete without problems
after a reboot.
Paul
2018-07-08 00:00:53 UTC
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Post by Mayayana
| >So how do I delete hiberfil.sys ???
| >
| From an Admistrator's Command Prompt powercft -h off
I guess that's fine, but I don't remember ever having
to do anything special to delete it, as long as it's not
in use. Same with pagefile.sys. As long as it's moved
off of C drive, the file should delete without problems
after a reboot.
Turning off hibernation

powercfg /? # check the syntax on your OS

powercfg -h off # disabling hibernation
powercfg /h off

deletes the hiberfile and the space it took.

It's possible to set the hiberfile to a "percentage"
of system RAM. The hiberfile is likely using a light-weight
compressor, so a 50% to 75% size should be sufficient.

If you're a pathological user, someone who fills RAM
on purpose with random data and holds the data there,
then you might succeed in preventing hibernation from
working properly. A Verilog or VHDL simulator could be
used to achieve such a result. Or you could run Microsoft
ICE on a panorama, then hibernate in the middle of a calc.

Only the portion of RAM mapped as "active" is recorded.
An idle desktop, could in principle be written out
as a 350MB image. Even if your hiberfile has a static
allocation 50GB in size, only the first 350MB would
need to be written in that case. Since it's hard to
study hibernation, I don't know if "cache spaces" are
recorded in the hiberfile, or if the OS is clever enough
to only record the minimal resources to make things work.
It should be flushing the System Write Cache before
contemplating shutdown, and only then doing the
Hibernate math.

Paul
KenW
2018-07-09 00:49:33 UTC
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Fat fingers


KenW
mike
2018-07-09 02:34:52 UTC
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Post by freface
So hibernation is set to NEVER for both AC and Battery
So how do I delete hiberfil.sys ???
You can't.
You have to disable hibernation. That should automatically
remove the file.
Setting the hibernation to never is not the same thing.
powercfg -h off (there's some argument over whether it's
powercfg /h off) one should work.
Post by freface
Post by Mayayana
....
Disable hibernation.
Disable swap file or put one only on a non-C drive.
Having done those things, hiberfil.sys and
pagefile.sys can be deleted from C drive.
Brian Gregory
2018-07-09 12:51:44 UTC
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Post by mike
Post by freface
So hibernation is set to NEVER for both AC and Battery
So how do I delete hiberfil.sys  ???
You can't.
You have to disable hibernation.  That should automatically
remove the file.
Setting the hibernation to never is not the same thing.
powercfg -h off (there's some argument over whether it's
powercfg /h off) one should work.
On Windows 7 either /h or -h will work.
--
Brian Gregory (in England).
NY
2018-07-09 16:39:08 UTC
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Post by Brian Gregory
Post by mike
Post by freface
So hibernation is set to NEVER for both AC and Battery
So how do I delete hiberfil.sys ???
You can't.
You have to disable hibernation. That should automatically
remove the file.
Setting the hibernation to never is not the same thing.
powercfg -h off (there's some argument over whether it's
powercfg /h off) one should work.
On Windows 7 either /h or -h will work.
Conversely, powercfg -h on (or /h) does not always turn hibernation on. My
laptop used to hibernate and then stopped offering hibernation on the Power
menu: you could only Logoff, Restart or Shutdown. Powercfg gives no error
message but has no effect. The Control Panel | Power settings for all the
power plans have the hibernation stuff greyed out. No-one I asked, including
in any newsgroups, has offered an suggestions that fix it.

The laptop still goes into suspend-to-memory mode (which requires permanent
AC or battery power) but there's no longer a way to suspend to disk and then
turn the power off. This is a shame because the battery on my laptop is
utterly broken (it will not hold any charge) so I need to leave the laptop
permanently on mains (with the lid shut) or else I have to start from cold
each time which takes ages.
mike
2018-07-09 22:27:35 UTC
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Post by NY
Post by Brian Gregory
Post by mike
Post by freface
So hibernation is set to NEVER for both AC and Battery
So how do I delete hiberfil.sys ???
You can't.
You have to disable hibernation. That should automatically
remove the file.
Setting the hibernation to never is not the same thing.
powercfg -h off (there's some argument over whether it's
powercfg /h off) one should work.
On Windows 7 either /h or -h will work.
Conversely, powercfg -h on (or /h) does not always turn hibernation on.
My laptop used to hibernate and then stopped offering hibernation on the
Power menu: you could only Logoff, Restart or Shutdown. Powercfg gives
no error message but has no effect. The Control Panel | Power settings
for all the power plans have the hibernation stuff greyed out. No-one I
asked, including in any newsgroups, has offered an suggestions that fix it.
The laptop still goes into suspend-to-memory mode (which requires
permanent AC or battery power) but there's no longer a way to suspend to
disk and then turn the power off. This is a shame because the battery on
my laptop is utterly broken (it will not hold any charge) so I need to
leave the laptop permanently on mains (with the lid shut) or else I have
to start from cold each time which takes ages.
Interesting...
Are you using an administrator command prompt to set powercfg?

I've never had occasion to enable hibernation.
A quick registry search discloses:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Power]
"CustomizeDuringSetup"=dword:00000001
"HiberFileSizePercent"=dword:0000004b
"HibernateEnabled"=dword:00000000

Might consider setting the last word to 1 and see what happens.
Paul
2018-07-09 23:43:38 UTC
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Post by NY
Post by Brian Gregory
Post by mike
Post by freface
So hibernation is set to NEVER for both AC and Battery
So how do I delete hiberfil.sys ???
You can't.
You have to disable hibernation. That should automatically
remove the file.
Setting the hibernation to never is not the same thing.
powercfg -h off (there's some argument over whether it's
powercfg /h off) one should work.
On Windows 7 either /h or -h will work.
Conversely, powercfg -h on (or /h) does not always turn hibernation on.
My laptop used to hibernate and then stopped offering hibernation on the
Power menu: you could only Logoff, Restart or Shutdown. Powercfg gives
no error message but has no effect. The Control Panel | Power settings
for all the power plans have the hibernation stuff greyed out. No-one I
asked, including in any newsgroups, has offered an suggestions that fix it.
The laptop still goes into suspend-to-memory mode (which requires
permanent AC or battery power) but there's no longer a way to suspend to
disk and then turn the power off. This is a shame because the battery on
my laptop is utterly broken (it will not hold any charge) so I need to
leave the laptop permanently on mains (with the lid shut) or else I have
to start from cold each time which takes ages.
Two parts:

1) powercfg /h on

If error, resize C and make it larger.

If successful, reboot.

2) In the Power control panel, there is an Advanced setting
for Hybrid Sleep. That must be turned off, in order for
Hibernate to appear in the shutdown menu.

Summary picture here:

Loading Image...

Paul
NY
2018-07-10 14:46:44 UTC
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Post by Paul
1) powercfg /h on
If error, resize C and make it larger.
If successful, reboot.
Doing this from a run-as-admin command prompt, the command completes without
an error. But when I reboot, hibernation isn't offered in the Power menu on
the Start Menu.
Post by Paul
2) In the Power control panel, there is an Advanced setting
for Hybrid Sleep. That must be turned off, in order for
Hibernate to appear in the shutdown menu.
https://s22.postimg.cc/gv2vfw869/Hibernation_W7.gif
This is the problem: Advanced | Hybrid Sleep is greyed-out so I can't set it
one way or the other.
Art
2018-07-07 17:14:24 UTC
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Post by freface
Win 7 Pro. All updates.
C:\ is full.
Deleted obvious stuff but only got 200MB freed.
Googled and got confused.
Please a little spoon feeding would help me.
WinSxS has 13G in the folder.
I do not see any other large file areas taking up space.
Suggestions please.
I found that Resetting your restore point back to Zero free up a lot of
Gigs for me.
Paul
2018-07-07 17:51:55 UTC
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Post by Art
Post by freface
Win 7 Pro. All updates.
C:\ is full.
Deleted obvious stuff but only got 200MB freed.
Googled and got confused.
Please a little spoon feeding would help me.
WinSxS has 13G in the folder.
I do not see any other large file areas taking up space.
Suggestions please.
I found that Resetting your restore point back to Zero free up a lot of
Gigs for me.
Yes, but while you're in System control panel and the
System Protection area, you should adjust the slider for
a smaller maximum space. That prevents "abuse" by
the System Protection feature. For example, I might set
it to 3GB, rather than 300GB.

Some backup programs use VSS Shadows, and those could
be lurking in a similar storage area. They're in
C:\System Volume Information. If you're using fancy
backup software, you should check whether there
are any "space" settings for when the tool uses
space on your disk drive. I thought the default on
some of these, was around 30-35%.

The worst part of Windows, is there is really *no*
utility that shows all allocations. I would have to
conclude from this behavior, that when you use a
backup program (even Macrium), it doesn't actually
copy everything, and there will be a few items that
don't get backed up.

I used to think nfi.exe (Microsoft) could see everything,
but it's missing at least four files.

Viewing NTFS from Linux can be educational, but you
also have to be careful. I had a Windows 7 C: trashed
while doing that. I was looking in System Volume Information
and specifically at VSS Shadow Files (which aren't "normal"
files). So if you do go on a serious hunt for stuff to remove,
you should have a *backup* in hand, before you begin. I
tried to reproduce the failure case a couple of months
ago, and couldn't succeed in getting it to happen
a second time. But for me, one incident is enough.
Since I'd made a backup only two hours before the
incident, I was well prepared, but... purely by accident.
I didn't actually do the backup because I was expecting
trouble. I did the backup because it had been
several months since the last one. It's possible that
some leftovers from the backup operation, actually
primed the failure case to happen.

Viewing NTFS from Linux now, also suffers from problems
caused by Windows 10. Windows 10 creates partitions with
damaged $MFTMIRR, which prevents Linux from mounting.
Windows 7 CHKDSK can fix it. Windows 10 also uses a
new compression reparse point type, and Linux gets
"I/O error" or similar if it hits one of those. Windows 10
makes a Swiss Cheese out of the Linux ability to help.
And when stuff like this happens, it's not an accident.
(Windows 7 created partitions, are still perfectly usable.
And Windows 7 can prepare a GPT disk for you too.)

Paul
Brian Gregory
2018-07-08 23:29:31 UTC
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Post by Paul
Post by Art
Win 7 Pro.  All updates.
C:\ is full.
Deleted obvious stuff but only got 200MB freed.
Googled and got confused.
Please a little spoon feeding would help me.
WinSxS has 13G in the folder.
I do not see any other large file areas taking up space.
Suggestions please.
I found that Resetting your restore point back to Zero free up a lot
of Gigs for me.
Yes, but while you're in System control panel and the
System Protection area, you should adjust the slider for
a smaller maximum space. That prevents "abuse" by
the System Protection feature. For example, I might set
it to 3GB, rather than 300GB.
Some backup programs use VSS Shadows, and those could
be lurking in a similar storage area. They're in
C:\System Volume Information. If you're using fancy
backup software, you should check whether there
are any "space" settings for when the tool uses
space on your disk drive. I thought the default on
some of these, was around 30-35%.
The worst part of Windows, is there is really *no*
utility that shows all allocations. I would have to
conclude from this behavior, that when you use a
backup program (even Macrium), it doesn't actually
copy everything, and there will be a few items that
don't get backed up.
I used to think nfi.exe (Microsoft) could see everything,
but it's missing at least four files.
Viewing NTFS from Linux can be educational, but you
also have to be careful. I had a Windows 7 C: trashed
while doing that. I was looking in System Volume Information
and specifically at VSS Shadow Files (which aren't "normal"
files). So if you do go on a serious hunt for stuff to remove,
you should have a *backup* in hand, before you begin. I
tried to reproduce the failure case a couple of months
ago, and couldn't succeed in getting it to happen
a second time. But for me, one incident is enough.
Since I'd made a backup only two hours before the
incident, I was well prepared, but... purely by accident.
I didn't actually do the backup because I was expecting
trouble. I did the backup because it had been
several months since the last one. It's possible that
some leftovers from the backup operation, actually
primed the failure case to happen.
Viewing NTFS from Linux now, also suffers from problems
caused by Windows 10. Windows 10 creates partitions with
damaged $MFTMIRR, which prevents Linux from mounting.
Windows 7 CHKDSK can fix it. Windows 10 also uses a
new compression reparse point type, and Linux gets
"I/O error" or similar if it hits one of those. Windows 10
makes a Swiss Cheese out of the Linux ability to help.
And when stuff like this happens, it's not an accident.
(Windows 7 created partitions, are still perfectly usable.
And Windows 7 can prepare a GPT disk for you too.)
   Paul
I generally give System Protection around 15% of my C: drive to start
off. Then I wait for it to fill up and see how far back the oldest
restore point is. If it seems way too old reduce percentage, if it seems
way to recent increase percentage. I like to be able to go back at least
a week if I should need to.
--
Brian Gregory (in England).
Big Al
2018-07-08 23:44:53 UTC
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Post by Brian Gregory
Post by Paul
Post by Art
Win 7 Pro.  All updates.
C:\ is full.
Deleted obvious stuff but only got 200MB freed.
Googled and got confused.
Please a little spoon feeding would help me.
WinSxS has 13G in the folder.
I do not see any other large file areas taking up space.
Suggestions please.
I found that Resetting your restore point back to Zero free up a lot
of Gigs for me.
Yes, but while you're in System control panel and the
System Protection area, you should adjust the slider for
a smaller maximum space. That prevents "abuse" by
the System Protection feature. For example, I might set
it to 3GB, rather than 300GB.
Some backup programs use VSS Shadows, and those could
be lurking in a similar storage area. They're in
C:\System Volume Information. If you're using fancy
backup software, you should check whether there
are any "space" settings for when the tool uses
space on your disk drive. I thought the default on
some of these, was around 30-35%.
The worst part of Windows, is there is really *no*
utility that shows all allocations. I would have to
conclude from this behavior, that when you use a
backup program (even Macrium), it doesn't actually
copy everything, and there will be a few items that
don't get backed up.
I used to think nfi.exe (Microsoft) could see everything,
but it's missing at least four files.
Viewing NTFS from Linux can be educational, but you
also have to be careful. I had a Windows 7 C: trashed
while doing that. I was looking in System Volume Information
and specifically at VSS Shadow Files (which aren't "normal"
files). So if you do go on a serious hunt for stuff to remove,
you should have a *backup* in hand, before you begin. I
tried to reproduce the failure case a couple of months
ago, and couldn't succeed in getting it to happen
a second time. But for me, one incident is enough.
Since I'd made a backup only two hours before the
incident, I was well prepared, but... purely by accident.
I didn't actually do the backup because I was expecting
trouble. I did the backup because it had been
several months since the last one. It's possible that
some leftovers from the backup operation, actually
primed the failure case to happen.
Viewing NTFS from Linux now, also suffers from problems
caused by Windows 10. Windows 10 creates partitions with
damaged $MFTMIRR, which prevents Linux from mounting.
Windows 7 CHKDSK can fix it. Windows 10 also uses a
new compression reparse point type, and Linux gets
"I/O error" or similar if it hits one of those. Windows 10
makes a Swiss Cheese out of the Linux ability to help.
And when stuff like this happens, it's not an accident.
(Windows 7 created partitions, are still perfectly usable.
And Windows 7 can prepare a GPT disk for you too.)
    Paul
I generally give System Protection around 15% of my C: drive to start
off. Then I wait for it to fill up and see how far back the oldest
restore point is. If it seems way too old reduce percentage, if it seems
way to recent increase percentage. I like to be able to go back at least
a week if I should need to.
Good idea if you install or change things 3 times a day. But what
about the person that loads one program a month, and the monthly
updates, well that's 2. I would like to keep either 5 or restore
points or a week, whichever I hit first.

Al
s|b
2018-07-07 20:20:13 UTC
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Post by freface
WinSxS has 13G in the folder.
<https://www.howtogeek.com/174705/how-to-reduce-the-size-of-your-winsxs-folder-on-windows-7-or-8/>
--
s|b
Paul
2018-07-08 00:14:56 UTC
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Post by s|b
Post by freface
WinSxS has 13G in the folder.
<https://www.howtogeek.com/174705/how-to-reduce-the-size-of-your-winsxs-folder-on-windows-7-or-8/>
In that article, the "DISM /Cleanup-Image" sounds
like the most likely approach to actually removing
content from WinSXS.

Some of the other suggested mechanisms, rely on
*compression*, not deletion. I've had that stupid
cleanmgr.exe spin its wheels for 3 hours compressing
stuff for nothing. I don't consider compression to
be all that clever on non-tablet platforms with
huge hard drives. On a tablet with 32GB eMMC storage,
the compression approach makes sense (even if it's
wasting wear cycles on the flash).

And remember that WinSXS files are hard-linked into
other folders like System32. What this means is,
you can delete the entire contents of WinSXS, but
in a "well-managed" OS, the savings is only 500MB,
for all the file pointers that got deleted. (Likely
removed directory entries, not files themselves.)

Hardlinked files are double-counted when you do
Properties on a sub-tree of C: . The only "honest"
indicator in the OS, is the Properties of the
entire C: . The "pie chart" is accurate.

Purely as an experiment, you can

1) Do a full backup of C: .
2) Delete the contents of WinSXS. The OS should *still boot*.
What you've done, is made it impossible for Windows
Update to install anything ever again. You've deleted
the maintenance space. The clusters are shared by two
file pointers, and all you've done is delete
one file pointer - the second file pointer, all the
clusters, are still there and taking up space.
3) Now, go to the pie-chart properties of C: and
see how much space you saved. In the Explorer
window, you would swear you deleted 13GB of files,
but the pie chart is only 0.5GB smaller than it
used to be.
4) Restore your backup back in place of C: , to
keep your OS in a maintainable state.

This is why playing Whack-A-Mole with the directory
is basically a waste of time.

I have a more hopeful feeling towards "DISM /Cleanup-Image",
as I hear you can recover 1GB of space with it. (That might
have been a bread crumb from some IT people managing
.vhd files and virtualized server setups, who
were crying for ways to make their images smaller.
They would "pay big money" to save 1GB.)

Paul
Mayayana
2018-07-08 02:15:46 UTC
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"Paul" <***@needed.invalid> wrote

| And remember that WinSXS files are hard-linked into
| other folders like System32. What this means is,
| you can delete the entire contents of WinSXS, but
| in a "well-managed" OS, the savings is only 500MB,
| for all the file pointers that got deleted. (Likely
| removed directory entries, not files themselves.)
|
I don't believe that's true. It's absurd for them
to claim the bloat isn't really there. Even if it weren't,
if Windows thinks it is that's the same thing. We've
talked about this before. When they first started bloating
out winsxs and making a mess I researched it to see
what the options are. I found these two fundamentally
conflicting quotes:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/e7/archive/2008/11/19/disk-space.aspx

Microsoft President Steven Sinofsky (now former President) and his assistant
said: ...nearly every file in the WinSxS directory is a "hard link" to the
physical files elsewhere on the system-meaning that the files are not
actually in this directory. ...The actual amount of storage consumed varies,
but on a typical system it is about 400MB.

http://blogs.technet.com/b/askcore/archive/2008/09/17/what-is-the-winsxs-directory-in-windows-2008-and-windows-vista-and-why-is-it-so-large.aspx

The "Windows Server Core Team" said: All of the components in the operating
system are found in the WinSxS folder - in fact we call this location the
component store. ...The WinSxS folder is the only location that the
component is found on the system, all other instances of the files that you
see on the system are "projected" by hard linking from the component store.
-------------------------------------------------------------

So the company president and the main programmers
each have an entirely different story about how it works.
The whole idea of "hard linking makes no sense in the
first place. It's as unnecessarily confusing as having
non-functional, fake folders that mimic pre-7 app data
paths. There's no need to show those fake folders in
order for Explorer to perform a virtualization rerouting
of files for non-conforming software.

They're copying all the drivers from the install disk
into winsxs. They also seem to be copying every single
system file, in any version, that comes through. If
you have an AMD-32 you'll still have Intel-64 files and
vice versa. There are thousands of things you
couldn't possibly ever need, so they're certainly not
reflections from the system folder.

| Purely as an experiment, you can
|
| 1) Do a full backup of C: .
| 2) Delete the contents of WinSXS. The OS should *still boot*.
| What you've done, is made it impossible for Windows
| Update to install anything ever again. You've deleted
| the maintenance space. The clusters are shared by two
| file pointers, and all you've done is delete
| one file pointer - the second file pointer, all the
| clusters, are still there and taking up space.

I've done that. The whole system was broken.
The Computer window showed no disks at all. It
worked if I copied the whole thing to another
partition, but not if I deleted it.

| 3) Now, go to the pie-chart properties of C: and
| see how much space you saved. In the Explorer
| window, you would swear you deleted 13GB of files,
| but the pie chart is only 0.5GB smaller than it
| used to be.

All bullshit. As the quotes above show, they've
created an extremely brittle, bloated system, they're
not being honest about how it works, and
it's not realistically subject to manipulation. Trying
to calculate something like how much space you
can save ca't even be trusted. You just have to live
with it. But with disk imaging you can at least go
back to base level when the crap gets out of hand.
Java Jive
2018-07-08 11:09:34 UTC
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Post by Mayayana
So the company president and the main programmers
each have an entirely different story about how it works.
The whole idea of "hard linking makes no sense in the
first place. It's as unnecessarily confusing as having
non-functional, fake folders that mimic pre-7 app data
paths. There's no need to show those fake folders in
order for Explorer to perform a virtualization rerouting
of files for non-conforming software.
Lol!
Post by Mayayana
They're copying all the drivers from the install disk
into winsxs. They also seem to be copying every single
system file, in any version, that comes through. If
you have an AMD-32 you'll still have Intel-64 files and
vice versa. There are thousands of things you
couldn't possibly ever need, so they're certainly not
reflections from the system folder.
Not to mention, at least with Ultimate, files for every goddamned
language on the planet into ...
C:\Boot
C:\Windows\System32
C:\Windows\SysWOW64

I've gone through these individually compressing non-English folders,
and other bloat folders as well.
Ken Blake
2018-07-08 14:24:16 UTC
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Post by Java Jive
Post by Mayayana
So the company president and the main programmers
each have an entirely different story about how it works.
The whole idea of "hard linking makes no sense in the
first place. It's as unnecessarily confusing as having
non-functional, fake folders that mimic pre-7 app data
paths. There's no need to show those fake folders in
order for Explorer to perform a virtualization rerouting
of files for non-conforming software.
Lol!
Post by Mayayana
They're copying all the drivers from the install disk
into winsxs. They also seem to be copying every single
system file, in any version, that comes through. If
you have an AMD-32 you'll still have Intel-64 files and
vice versa. There are thousands of things you
couldn't possibly ever need, so they're certainly not
reflections from the system folder.
Not to mention, at least with Ultimate, files for every goddamned
language on the planet into ...
C:\Boot
C:\Windows\System32
C:\Windows\SysWOW64
Do you know how many languages there are on the planet? According to
https://www.linguisticsociety.org/content/how-many-languages-are-there-world,
in 2009 there were 6,909.

But it's possible that they're not all goddamned.
Mayayana
2018-07-08 14:46:23 UTC
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"Ken Blake" <***@invalid.news.com> wrote

| >Not to mention, at least with Ultimate, files for every goddamned
| >language on the planet into ...

| Do you know how many languages there are on the planet?
| But it's possible that they're not all goddamned.

Context. They're all goddamned if support files
you'll never use are taking up space. :)

You set up Windows and the first question is what
language do you want. Why maintain language support
for hundreds of other languages after that choice is
made? It's not as though you might wake
up one day speaking Swahili.
pyotr filipivich
2018-07-08 16:06:30 UTC
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Post by Mayayana
| >Not to mention, at least with Ultimate, files for every goddamned
| >language on the planet into ...
| Do you know how many languages there are on the planet?
| But it's possible that they're not all goddamned.
Context. They're all goddamned if support files
you'll never use are taking up space. :)
You set up Windows and the first question is what
language do you want. Why maintain language support
for hundreds of other languages after that choice is
made? It's not as though you might wake
up one day speaking Swahili.
Eta Pravda!
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
Mayayana
2018-07-08 16:10:23 UTC
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"pyotr filipivich" <***@mindspring.com> wrote

| > You set up Windows and the first question is what
| >language do you want. Why maintain language support
| >for hundreds of other languages after that choice is
| >made? It's not as though you might wake
| >up one day speaking Swahili.
|
| Eta Pravda!

Sheesh, I had to go look that up. Why doesn't
Windows come with translation functionality? Now
*that* could be a justification for language
support files. :)
pyotr filipivich
2018-07-08 19:56:00 UTC
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Post by Mayayana
| > You set up Windows and the first question is what
| >language do you want. Why maintain language support
| >for hundreds of other languages after that choice is
| >made? It's not as though you might wake
| >up one day speaking Swahili.
|
| Eta Pravda!
Sheesh, I had to go look that up. Why doesn't
Windows come with translation functionality? Now
*that* could be a justification for language
support files. :)
Ja, das stimmt.

(yeah, I know, showing off. Traveled a lot, picked up fragments
which have stayed with me. Variations on "How much is a room for the
night?", Two beers, please." and "I'm trying to get to ____". Oh and
"I need [part name] for a Volkswagen / Daimler-Benz.".)
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
Java Jive
2018-07-09 12:29:27 UTC
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Post by pyotr filipivich
Post by Mayayana
|
| Eta Pravda!
Actually, though I had to stop and think, I did know that this was
Russian, and that it meant "That's true!" - I studied Russian for a
year at school before I decided I was better at maths and science!
Post by pyotr filipivich
Post by Mayayana
Sheesh, I had to go look that up. Why doesn't
Windows come with translation functionality? Now
*that* could be a justification for language
support files. :)
Ja, das stimmt.
Could recognise as German (or possibly Dutch), and guessed correctly
that it meant the same thing, but, although I also did German for a
year, I never attended half the lectures, so my memory of it is even hazier.
Post by pyotr filipivich
(yeah, I know, showing off. Traveled a lot, picked up fragments
which have stayed with me. Variations on "How much is a room for the
night?", Two beers, please." and "I'm trying to get to ____". Oh and
"I need [part name] for a Volkswagen / Daimler-Benz.".)
I do know that kohl is a cabbage, and schreiber is a writer, so this
means that Philip Kohlschreiber translates into English as Philip
CabbageWriter, which during Wimbledon is possibly more useful
information than the above :-)
Ken Blake
2018-07-09 16:22:02 UTC
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Post by Java Jive
I do know that kohl is a cabbage, and schreiber is a writer, so this
means that Philip Kohlschreiber translates into English as Philip
CabbageWriter, which during Wimbledon is possibly more useful
information than the above :-)
No, it translates into English as "horseloving cabbagewriter." <g>
NY
2018-07-09 16:32:48 UTC
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Post by pyotr filipivich
Ja, das stimmt.
Could recognise as German (or possibly Dutch), and guessed correctly that
it meant the same thing, but, although I also did German for a year, I
never attended half the lectures, so my memory of it is even hazier.
Post by pyotr filipivich
(yeah, I know, showing off. Traveled a lot, picked up fragments
which have stayed with me. Variations on "How much is a room for the
night?", Two beers, please." and "I'm trying to get to ____". Oh and
"I need [part name] for a Volkswagen / Daimler-Benz.".)
I do know that kohl is a cabbage, and schreiber is a writer, so this means
that Philip Kohlschreiber translates into English as Philip CabbageWriter,
which during Wimbledon is possibly more useful information than the above
:-)
I wonder what the derivation of Kohlschreiber is - how many people used to
write on cabbages for a living, for it to become an "occupation surname"
like Cooper, Smith or Weaver?

My basic O-level German came in very useful when I had to go to the Hannover
Fair to demonstrate the product that I was working on. Because all the
hotels were occupied by paying visitors at that time, "mere" demonstrators
were put up in private houses where the family made a bit of pin money
renting out a spare bedroom. The couple I was lodging with spoke a little
bit of English and I spoke a little bit of German and we managed to get by.

One morning, the husband (whose English was better) had gone to work and the
wife said something in German that I couldn't understand , and then said,
more simply, "heute Nacht wird ein anderer Mann in deinem Bett schlafen".
Even with my rudimentary German, it did not sound good news that "tonight
another man will be sleeping in your bed" :-)

Luckily I was alerted that something was not right (!) so when I got to the
exhibition stand I got someone on reception to phone her. There'd been a
cock-up with the booking and they thought I was leaving one day earlier that
I was supposed to. Good thing I knew enough German to be alerted, otherwise
I'd have got back from the team meal that night, having consumed a fair
number of Weisbiers and had a nasty surprise :-)

There's actually a follow-up to this. The receptionist arranged another
night's stay at another address, and when I gave the address to the taxi
driver, after calling at the original house to collect my luggage, he
smirked. I realised why when I got there. It didn't quite have a red light
above the door, but the woman who answered belonged to the oldest profession
in the world and she was dressed for business. She explained that she was
staying with a friend that night - which is how I can say with a totally
straight face and in all innocence that I slept in a prostitute's bed...

I don't know what the background was. Maybe it was the wrong time of the
month for her so she rented out her "working bed" when she couldn't work and
stayed with a friend. I'm guessing wildly. It was all very bizarre.
Java Jive
2018-07-09 17:05:15 UTC
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Post by NY
My basic O-level German
So how does Michaela Kirkgasser's name translate? I thought that
perhaps kirk was church, as in lowland scots, but online translaters
recognise neither that nor gasser.
Frank Slootweg
2018-07-09 17:31:59 UTC
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Post by Java Jive
Post by NY
My basic O-level German
So how does Michaela Kirkgasser's name translate? I thought that
perhaps kirk was church, as in lowland scots, but online translaters
recognise neither that nor gasser.
'Leo' [1], confirms what this Dutchie thought: 'kirk' indeed
translates to (Scottish) 'church'. And 'gasse' is a small street /
alley.

But 'gasser' does not ring a bell.

So Rudy, what *does* it mean?

[1] <https://dict.leo.org/german-english>
NY
2018-07-09 17:46:07 UTC
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Post by Frank Slootweg
Post by Java Jive
Post by NY
My basic O-level German
So how does Michaela Kirkgasser's name translate? I thought that
perhaps kirk was church, as in lowland scots, but online translaters
recognise neither that nor gasser.
'Leo' [1], confirms what this Dutchie thought: 'kirk' indeed
translates to (Scottish) 'church'. And 'gasse' is a small street /
alley.
But 'gasser' does not ring a bell.
Maybe the original German or Dutch name has had its spelling Anglicised
slightly from Kirche to Kirk and Gasse to Gasser, to make the pronunciation
slightly more obvious to an English speaker.

It's only just dawned on me that the German "Gasse" is probably related to
the Norwegian/Danish "Gata" which spawned all the "-gate" street names (*)
in York, from the time of the Viking colonisation of England.

(*) Monkgate, Micklegate, Hungate, Whip-ma-Whop-ma-Gate etc
Java Jive
2018-07-09 21:17:04 UTC
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Post by NY
Post by NY
My basic O-level German
So how does Michaela Kirkgasser's name translate?  I thought that
perhaps kirk was church, as in lowland scots, but online translaters
recognise neither that nor gasser.
 'Leo' [1], confirms what this Dutchie thought: 'kirk' indeed
translates to (Scottish) 'church'. And 'gasse' is a small street /
alley.
 But 'gasser' does not ring a bell.
Maybe the original German or Dutch name has had its spelling Anglicised
slightly from Kirche to Kirk and Gasse to Gasser, to make the
pronunciation slightly more obvious to an English speaker.
Or maybe this poster should have checked the spelling of her name before
posting (my excuse is that I've spent three hours mowing the grass and
another cleaning the house, and I'm cream-crackered).

So apologies for that, it's Michaela Kirchgasser.

https://data.fis-ski.com/dynamic/athlete-biography.html?sector=AL&competitorid=30631&type=result
http://www.kirchi.com/

But I'm quite happy to accept that her name translates as something like
Church Alley or Church Gate. Thanks for that.
pyotr filipivich
2018-07-10 01:55:13 UTC
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Post by Java Jive
Post by NY
Post by NY
My basic O-level German
So how does Michaela Kirkgasser's name translate?  I thought that
perhaps kirk was church, as in lowland scots, but online translaters
recognise neither that nor gasser.
 'Leo' [1], confirms what this Dutchie thought: 'kirk' indeed
translates to (Scottish) 'church'. And 'gasse' is a small street /
alley.
 But 'gasser' does not ring a bell.
Maybe the original German or Dutch name has had its spelling Anglicised
slightly from Kirche to Kirk and Gasse to Gasser, to make the
pronunciation slightly more obvious to an English speaker.
Or maybe this poster should have checked the spelling of her name before
posting (my excuse is that I've spent three hours mowing the grass and
another cleaning the house, and I'm cream-crackered).
So apologies for that, it's Michaela Kirchgasser.
https://data.fis-ski.com/dynamic/athlete-biography.html?sector=AL&competitorid=30631&type=result
http://www.kirchi.com/
But I'm quite happy to accept that her name translates as something like
Church Alley or Church Gate. Thanks for that.
Church Alley sounds right.

I lived at Schossgasse 1, till I moved to Ringstrasse 23.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
pyotr filipivich
2018-07-10 16:18:45 UTC
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Post by NY
Post by Frank Slootweg
Post by Java Jive
Post by NY
My basic O-level German
So how does Michaela Kirkgasser's name translate? I thought that
perhaps kirk was church, as in lowland scots, but online translaters
recognise neither that nor gasser.
'Leo' [1], confirms what this Dutchie thought: 'kirk' indeed
translates to (Scottish) 'church'. And 'gasse' is a small street /
alley.
But 'gasser' does not ring a bell.
Maybe the original German or Dutch name has had its spelling Anglicised
slightly from Kirche to Kirk and Gasse to Gasser, to make the pronunciation
slightly more obvious to an English speaker.
Or was "anglicized" to fit what the Anglophone heard.

There is the joke about the Chinese laundry by the name of "Ollie
Olsen". Seems that when the proprietor went through immigration, he
was following a Swede, and when it was his turn, was asked "What's
your name" and replied "Sam Ting." So the immigration man put "Ollie
Olsen" down on the form.

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
musika
2018-07-10 10:21:48 UTC
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Post by NY
My basic O-level German
So how does Michaela Kirkgasser's name translate?  I thought that
perhaps kirk was church, as in lowland scots, but online translaters
recognise neither that nor gasser.
Kirche -church
Gasse - lane/alley/passage
-er - in this case, from ( as in Berlin - Berliner, Hamburg - Hamburger)
Michaela from Church Lane.
--
Ray
UK
NY
2018-07-10 14:49:47 UTC
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Post by musika
Post by NY
My basic O-level German
So how does Michaela Kirkgasser's name translate? I thought that perhaps
kirk was church, as in lowland scots, but online translaters recognise
neither that nor gasser.
Kirche -church
Gasse - lane/alley/passage
-er - in this case, from ( as in Berlin - Berliner, Hamburg - Hamburger)
Michaela from Church Lane.
Berliner - but never as in "Ich bin ein Berliner" which is a naive literal
translation from English and means "I am a jam doughnut" (a Berliner is a
type of doughnut). JFK should have said "Ich bin Berliner" or else "Ich bin
aus Berlin" (*from* Berlin).
Ken Blake
2018-07-10 15:06:05 UTC
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Post by NY
Post by musika
Post by NY
My basic O-level German
So how does Michaela Kirkgasser's name translate? I thought that perhaps
kirk was church, as in lowland scots, but online translaters recognise
neither that nor gasser.
Kirche -church
Gasse - lane/alley/passage
-er - in this case, from ( as in Berlin - Berliner, Hamburg - Hamburger)
Michaela from Church Lane.
Berliner - but never as in "Ich bin ein Berliner" which is a naive literal
translation from English and means "I am a jam doughnut" (a Berliner is a
type of doughnut). JFK should have said "Ich bin Berliner" or else "Ich bin
aus Berlin" (*from* Berlin).
I studied German in college. But it was sixty years ago, and not being
good at it, I've forgotten a lot. I know about JFK's error, since it
got a lot of publicity at the time. But is "Ich bin ein Berliner"and
"Ich bin Berliner" different? Can you explain why? What does "ein" do
to change the meaning?
pyotr filipivich
2018-07-10 16:18:45 UTC
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Post by Ken Blake
Post by NY
Post by musika
Post by NY
My basic O-level German
So how does Michaela Kirkgasser's name translate? I thought that perhaps
kirk was church, as in lowland scots, but online translaters recognise
neither that nor gasser.
Kirche -church
Gasse - lane/alley/passage
-er - in this case, from ( as in Berlin - Berliner, Hamburg - Hamburger)
Michaela from Church Lane.
Berliner - but never as in "Ich bin ein Berliner" which is a naive literal
translation from English and means "I am a jam doughnut" (a Berliner is a
type of doughnut). JFK should have said "Ich bin Berliner" or else "Ich bin
aus Berlin" (*from* Berlin).
I studied German in college. But it was sixty years ago, and not being
good at it, I've forgotten a lot. I know about JFK's error, since it
got a lot of publicity at the time. But is "Ich bin ein Berliner"and
"Ich bin Berliner" different? Can you explain why? What does "ein" do
to change the meaning?
It is much like the difference between saying "I am Danish" and "I
am a Danish."


And FYI: the Danes don't have those "Danish Pastries" except as an
'import'."
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
Ken Blake
2018-07-10 18:47:33 UTC
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On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 09:18:45 -0700, pyotr filipivich
Post by pyotr filipivich
Post by Ken Blake
Post by NY
Post by musika
Post by NY
My basic O-level German
So how does Michaela Kirkgasser's name translate? I thought that perhaps
kirk was church, as in lowland scots, but online translaters recognise
neither that nor gasser.
Kirche -church
Gasse - lane/alley/passage
-er - in this case, from ( as in Berlin - Berliner, Hamburg - Hamburger)
Michaela from Church Lane.
Berliner - but never as in "Ich bin ein Berliner" which is a naive literal
translation from English and means "I am a jam doughnut" (a Berliner is a
type of doughnut). JFK should have said "Ich bin Berliner" or else "Ich bin
aus Berlin" (*from* Berlin).
I studied German in college. But it was sixty years ago, and not being
good at it, I've forgotten a lot. I know about JFK's error, since it
got a lot of publicity at the time. But is "Ich bin ein Berliner"and
"Ich bin Berliner" different? Can you explain why? What does "ein" do
to change the meaning?
It is much like the difference between saying "I am Danish" and "I
am a Danish."
Interesting. I never thought of that. Thanks.
Post by pyotr filipivich
And FYI: the Danes don't have those "Danish Pastries" except as an
'import'."
Yes I know.

musika
2018-07-10 17:22:17 UTC
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Post by Ken Blake
Post by NY
Post by musika
Post by NY
My basic O-level German
So how does Michaela Kirkgasser's name translate? I thought that perhaps
kirk was church, as in lowland scots, but online translaters recognise
neither that nor gasser.
Kirche -church
Gasse - lane/alley/passage
-er - in this case, from ( as in Berlin - Berliner, Hamburg - Hamburger)
Michaela from Church Lane.
Berliner - but never as in "Ich bin ein Berliner" which is a naive literal
translation from English and means "I am a jam doughnut" (a Berliner is a
type of doughnut). JFK should have said "Ich bin Berliner" or else "Ich bin
aus Berlin" (*from* Berlin).
I studied German in college. But it was sixty years ago, and not being
good at it, I've forgotten a lot. I know about JFK's error, since it
got a lot of publicity at the time. But is "Ich bin ein Berliner"and
"Ich bin Berliner" different? Can you explain why? What does "ein" do
to change the meaning?
No difference; as in English - I am Mancunian; I am a Mancunian.
The JFK story is complete tosh. No German would be confused or amused by
the expression. In fact the Pfannkuchen is not known as a Berliner in
the Berlin area.

Here, try this
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_bin_ein_Berliner#%22I%27m_a_doughnut%22_urban_legend>
--
Ray
UK
Char Jackson
2018-07-10 18:32:20 UTC
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Post by musika
Post by Ken Blake
Post by NY
Post by musika
Post by NY
My basic O-level German
So how does Michaela Kirkgasser's name translate? I thought that perhaps
kirk was church, as in lowland scots, but online translaters recognise
neither that nor gasser.
Kirche -church
Gasse - lane/alley/passage
-er - in this case, from ( as in Berlin - Berliner, Hamburg - Hamburger)
Michaela from Church Lane.
Berliner - but never as in "Ich bin ein Berliner" which is a naive literal
translation from English and means "I am a jam doughnut" (a Berliner is a
type of doughnut). JFK should have said "Ich bin Berliner" or else "Ich bin
aus Berlin" (*from* Berlin).
I studied German in college. But it was sixty years ago, and not being
good at it, I've forgotten a lot. I know about JFK's error, since it
got a lot of publicity at the time. But is "Ich bin ein Berliner"and
"Ich bin Berliner" different? Can you explain why? What does "ein" do
to change the meaning?
No difference; as in English - I am Mancunian; I am a Mancunian.
The JFK story is complete tosh. No German would be confused or amused by
the expression. In fact the Pfannkuchen is not known as a Berliner in
the Berlin area.
Here, try this
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_bin_ein_Berliner#%22I%27m_a_doughnut%22_urban_legend>
And this:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-hole-truth/
Did John F. Kennedy Proclaim Himself to Be a Jelly Doughnut?

"The notion that President John F. Kennedy referred to himself as a
jelly doughnut in his famous 1963 speech in Berlin, Germany, is an old
and false one."
--
Char Jackson
pyotr filipivich
2018-07-10 01:55:13 UTC
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Post by Java Jive
Post by pyotr filipivich
Post by Mayayana
|
| Eta Pravda!
Actually, though I had to stop and think, I did know that this was
Russian, and that it meant "That's true!" - I studied Russian for a
year at school before I decided I was better at maths and science!
Post by pyotr filipivich
Post by Mayayana
Sheesh, I had to go look that up. Why doesn't
Windows come with translation functionality? Now
*that* could be a justification for language
support files. :)
Ja, das stimmt.
Could recognise as German (or possibly Dutch), and guessed correctly
that it meant the same thing, but, although I also did German for a
year, I never attended half the lectures, so my memory of it is even hazier.
I remember a conversation with a friends. Variations on "I don't
understand, but in three different languages. (And a friend of my
parents was a tri-lingual filmmaker. One day, on a shoot, two of her
crew got "tired of it all" and the one refused to speak anything but
Hebrew, and the other naught but Spanish. Some times they made sense,
and others ... not so much.)
Post by Java Jive
Post by pyotr filipivich
(yeah, I know, showing off. Traveled a lot, picked up fragments
which have stayed with me. Variations on "How much is a room for the
night?", Two beers, please." and "I'm trying to get to ____". Oh and
"I need [part name] for a Volkswagen / Daimler-Benz.".)
I do know that kohl is a cabbage, and schreiber is a writer, so this
means that Philip Kohlschreiber translates into English as Philip
CabbageWriter, which during Wimbledon is possibly more useful
information than the above :-)
Larry called himself "Herr Gesetzeskopf" the literal translation
of "Lawhead".
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-07-10 11:41:24 UTC
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In message <phvkf9$82d$***@gioia.aioe.org>, Java Jive
<***@evij.com.invalid> writes:
[]
Post by Java Jive
I do know that kohl is a cabbage, and schreiber is a writer, so this
means that Philip Kohlschreiber translates into English as Philip
CabbageWriter, which during Wimbledon is possibly more useful
information than the above :-)
Kohl is also charcoal - I think it is even used in English in that sense
in the context of (especially stage) make-up. So I would imagine
Kohlschreiber is more likely to mean pencil or crayon than cabbagewriter
(-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Anyone can do any amount of work provided it isn't the work he is supposed to
be doing at the moment. -Robert Benchley, humorist, drama critic, and actor
(1889-1945)
Ken Blake
2018-07-10 14:27:04 UTC
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On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 12:41:24 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Java Jive
I do know that kohl is a cabbage, and schreiber is a writer, so this
means that Philip Kohlschreiber translates into English as Philip
CabbageWriter, which during Wimbledon is possibly more useful
information than the above :-)
Kohl is also charcoal -
Yes, it's cognate with the English "coal."
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I think it is even used in English in that sense
in the context of (especially stage) make-up. So I would imagine
Kohlschreiber is more likely to mean pencil or crayon than cabbagewriter
Yes, almost certainly.
NY
2018-07-10 14:53:56 UTC
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Post by Ken Blake
On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 12:41:24 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Java Jive
I do know that kohl is a cabbage, and schreiber is a writer, so this
means that Philip Kohlschreiber translates into English as Philip
CabbageWriter, which during Wimbledon is possibly more useful
information than the above :-)
Kohl is also charcoal -
Yes, it's cognate with the English "coal."
Oh yes! It had never occurred to me that kohl (cabbage) and kohl (the
English, borrowed from German, word for eye shadow) were the same word. I
suppose that when Germans use the word, they have to make it clear from
context which sense they are meaning. I'm sure we have plenty of words which
have two totally different meanings - can't think of one off the top of my
head.
Ken Blake
2018-07-10 15:07:31 UTC
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Post by NY
Post by Ken Blake
On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 12:41:24 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Java Jive
I do know that kohl is a cabbage, and schreiber is a writer, so this
means that Philip Kohlschreiber translates into English as Philip
CabbageWriter, which during Wimbledon is possibly more useful
information than the above :-)
Kohl is also charcoal -
Yes, it's cognate with the English "coal."
Oh yes! It had never occurred to me that kohl (cabbage) and kohl (the
English, borrowed from German, word for eye shadow) were the same word. I
suppose that when Germans use the word, they have to make it clear from
context which sense they are meaning. I'm sure we have plenty of words which
have two totally different meanings - can't think of one off the top of my
head.
There are many. Here's one that just popped into my head: "wound."
pyotr filipivich
2018-07-10 16:18:45 UTC
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Post by Ken Blake
Post by NY
Post by Ken Blake
On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 12:41:24 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Java Jive
I do know that kohl is a cabbage, and schreiber is a writer, so this
means that Philip Kohlschreiber translates into English as Philip
CabbageWriter, which during Wimbledon is possibly more useful
information than the above :-)
Kohl is also charcoal -
Yes, it's cognate with the English "coal."
Oh yes! It had never occurred to me that kohl (cabbage) and kohl (the
English, borrowed from German, word for eye shadow) were the same word. I
suppose that when Germans use the word, they have to make it clear from
context which sense they are meaning. I'm sure we have plenty of words which
have two totally different meanings - can't think of one off the top of my
head.
There are many. Here's one that just popped into my head: "wound."
Polish. Is it a person, a sausage, or a furniture topping?
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
pyotr filipivich
2018-07-10 16:18:45 UTC
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Post by NY
Post by Ken Blake
On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 12:41:24 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Java Jive
I do know that kohl is a cabbage, and schreiber is a writer, so this
means that Philip Kohlschreiber translates into English as Philip
CabbageWriter, which during Wimbledon is possibly more useful
information than the above :-)
Kohl is also charcoal -
Yes, it's cognate with the English "coal."
Oh yes! It had never occurred to me that kohl (cabbage) and kohl (the
English, borrowed from German, word for eye shadow) were the same word. I
suppose that when Germans use the word, they have to make it clear from
context which sense they are meaning. I'm sure we have plenty of words which
have two totally different meanings - can't think of one off the top of my
head.
Cleave - to separate something into two parts. To join together.

Finnish comedian Ismo thought "ass" just meant "butt." But that's
just the tip of assberg.


"Badass is good, but Dumbass is still dumb."

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
Frank Slootweg
2018-07-08 18:18:36 UTC
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Mayayana <***@invalid.nospam> wrote:
[...]
Post by Mayayana
You set up Windows and the first question is what
language do you want. Why maintain language support
for hundreds of other languages after that choice is
made? It's not as though you might wake
up one day speaking Swahili.
Well, theoretically, Windows is a multi-user system, so ... :-)

But seriously, in The Old Days (TM) on our Real UNIX (TM) systems,
simultaneous multi-language support was often essential.
Mayayana
2018-07-08 18:43:55 UTC
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"Frank Slootweg" <***@ddress.is.invalid> wrote

| > You set up Windows and the first question is what
| > language do you want. Why maintain language support
| > for hundreds of other languages after that choice is
| > made? It's not as though you might wake
| > up one day speaking Swahili.
|
| Well, theoretically, Windows is a multi-user system, so ... :-)
|

I'm sorry. I didn't realize your wife speaks Swahili. :)

Of course, the sensible thing would be to just let
you decide whether you want the whole DVD copied
to winsxs and whether you want all drivers/DLLs that
happen to float by to be copied to winsxs. 5-60 GB is
a steep price to pay for slightly more functional
plug n' play.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-07-08 18:25:01 UTC
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In message <pht83u$r53$***@dont-email.me>, Mayayana
<***@invalid.nospam> writes:
[]
Post by Mayayana
made? It's not as though you might wake
up one day speaking Swahili.
I think there _is_ a rare condition where people do, actually! (Well
I've heard of it happening with French.) However, I don't see that as a
reason for keeping every-language support!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"... all your hard work in the hands of twelve people too stupid to get off jury
duty." CSI, 200x
Paul
2018-07-08 18:44:34 UTC
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Post by Mayayana
| >Not to mention, at least with Ultimate, files for every goddamned
| >language on the planet into ...
| Do you know how many languages there are on the planet?
| But it's possible that they're not all goddamned.
Context. They're all goddamned if support files
you'll never use are taking up space. :)
You set up Windows and the first question is what
language do you want. Why maintain language support
for hundreds of other languages after that choice is
made? It's not as though you might wake
up one day speaking Swahili.
It's an implementation detail.

How it's delivered is what makes it suck. And
it doesn't have to be that way.

As an example, years ago there was a UAA audio driver
that was delivered to OSes, to support HDAudio. It was
a new layer in the audio driver stack, compared to the
AC'97 era. (Electrically, AC'97 and HDAudio have a
lot in common. It's the creation of "audio widgets"
that was new at the time, retaskable audio functions,
driving a microphone or a speaker from the same jack.0

Instead of keeping a separate localization file for each
language, they made a binary for each UAA driver file that
had the language stored as a resource inside. Presumably
this would include text for error messages.

By boiling language into each binary file, it meant there was
no file system penalty on installation. Just the one file, for
the nominal OS language was deposited.

But, it meant that the download was about
"20x larger than it needed to be". I was certainly
shocked by the download size, and shocked to examine
it with 7ZIP to see why it was so big.

Third party applications err on the other side.
For some reason, each localization is stored separately.
And in some cases, there can be a deep tree in the installation,
with "20 file" folders all over the place. This is
presumably done to economize on "bytes", at the
expense of file system entries. This has an impact
any time the tree is crawled, such as when doing
an Agent Ransack search. You pay for that gluttony
over and over again.

It should be obvious that the 20 files could be stored
more compactly, without that much of an effect on the OS.
A simple database file would do for example, and with
the database file, if a future software upgrade by
the third party outfit was attempted, it would just
remove the old text for error messages and replace it
with new text.

I class this as an "own goal" problem, of the OS not
supporting a good mechanism for packaging this crap.
And leaving it to developers to do stupid stuff.

For example, since we seem to be paying a tax, by
having archived copies of .msi files, we already
have copies of those files buried in the .msi.
If we wanted the file bad enough. It's not like we
lack for copies of the information.

That makes this an MS problem, not a languages problem.

Paul
Ant
2018-07-08 02:01:10 UTC
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Post by s|b
Post by freface
WinSxS has 13G in the folder.
<https://www.howtogeek.com/174705/how-to-reduce-the-size-of-your-winsxs-folder-on-windows-7-or-8/>
Mine is almost 9 GB even though my 64-bit W7 HPE SP1 is from October
2016 and kept updated. I even use Disk Cleanup monthly to remove its
WUs. :(
--
Quote of the Week: "I got worms! That's what we're going to call it.
We're going to specialize in selling worm farms. You know like ant
farms. What's the matter, a little tense about the flight?" --Lloyd
Christmas (Dumb and Dumber movie)
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org / http://antfarm.ma.cx
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
| |o o| | ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and URL/link.
\ _ /
( )
Mayayana
2018-07-08 02:25:08 UTC
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"Ant" <***@zimage.com> wrote

| Mine is almost 9 GB even though my 64-bit W7 HPE SP1 is from October
| 2016 and kept updated. I even use Disk Cleanup monthly to remove its
| WUs. :(
|
9 GB. Chicken feed. :)
If you do a search for winsxs GB you'll find 20, 30, 60....
There's no limit to the madness.

I had a Vista laptop with 80 GB used. It was
updated to 7 and still took up 80 GB of space.
(Very little software.) I had to reinstall Vista
from scratch, then do the update, in order to
clean out the mess.
Ant
2018-07-08 02:53:28 UTC
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Post by Mayayana
| Mine is almost 9 GB even though my 64-bit W7 HPE SP1 is from October
| 2016 and kept updated. I even use Disk Cleanup monthly to remove its
| WUs. :(
|
9 GB. Chicken feed. :)
If you do a search for winsxs GB you'll find 20, 30, 60....
There's no limit to the madness.
I had a Vista laptop with 80 GB used. It was
updated to 7 and still took up 80 GB of space.
(Very little software.) I had to reinstall Vista
from scratch, then do the update, in order to
clean out the mess.
Wow. I really wished there was a way to get rid of these left overs
fully. :(
--
Quote of the Week: "I got worms! That's what we're going to call it.
We're going to specialize in selling worm farms. You know like ant
farms. What's the matter, a little tense about the flight?" --Lloyd
Christmas (Dumb and Dumber movie)
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org / http://antfarm.ma.cx
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
| |o o| | ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and URL/link.
\ _ /
( )
s|b
2018-07-08 14:44:09 UTC
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Post by Ant
Mine is almost 9 GB even though my 64-bit W7 HPE SP1 is from October
2016 and kept updated. I even use Disk Cleanup monthly to remove its
WUs. :(
I just checked: my winsxs folder is about 16GiB.
--
s|b
Rene Lamontagne
2018-07-08 14:54:11 UTC
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Post by s|b
Post by Ant
Mine is almost 9 GB even though my 64-bit W7 HPE SP1 is from October
2016 and kept updated. I even use Disk Cleanup monthly to remove its
WUs. :(
I just checked: my winsxs folder is about 16GiB.
I am showing 9.45 GB on Windows 10 Pro.

Rene
Ken Blake
2018-07-08 18:42:01 UTC
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Post by Rene Lamontagne
Post by s|b
Post by Ant
Mine is almost 9 GB even though my 64-bit W7 HPE SP1 is from October
2016 and kept updated. I even use Disk Cleanup monthly to remove its
WUs. :(
I just checked: my winsxs folder is about 16GiB.
I am showing 9.45 GB on Windows 10 Pro.
About the same here.
Brian Gregory
2018-07-08 23:34:59 UTC
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Win 7 Pro.  All updates.
C:\ is full.
Deleted obvious stuff but only got 200MB freed.
Googled and got confused.
Please a little spoon feeding would help me.
WinSxS has 13G in the folder.
I do not see any other large file areas taking up space.
Suggestions please.
What an amazing amount of discussion and the guy hasn't even told us
anything about his computer yet.
--
Brian Gregory (in England).
Paul
2018-07-09 02:32:31 UTC
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Post by Brian Gregory
Post by freface
Win 7 Pro. All updates.
C:\ is full.
Deleted obvious stuff but only got 200MB freed.
Googled and got confused.
Please a little spoon feeding would help me.
WinSxS has 13G in the folder.
I do not see any other large file areas taking up space.
Suggestions please.
What an amazing amount of discussion and the guy hasn't even told us
anything about his computer yet.
One of the problems is, no utility shows everything.
Even nfi.exe is not listing around four files.

I use SequoiaView.exe for non-system areas or disks where
permissions won't be an issue. Still leaves System Volume Information
to consider. Windirstat is the closest modern equivalent.

It's theoretically possible for Everything.exe to
get all filenames (by reading $MFT). But the instant the
program tries to get date or size info (which is a separate
software step), it'll get Access Denied for the
"playing-hard-to-get" items. Everything.exe is capable of
generating a CSV listing of files on a disk, but the format
is not "convenient". Neither is nfi.exe convenient, but people
like nfi.exe enough, to write post-processors for it.

Windows Backup appears to use the same space as Restore Points.
And you can turn off Restore Points and use the allocated space
exclusively for backups. (That's for built-in backup features.)
With a little carelessness, 35 percent of your disk can be
taken up with file-by-file backups stored in units of 200MB
ZIP files.

https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/filecab/2009/11/22/managing-backup-disk-space/

Paul
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