Discussion:
When A means B
(too old to reply)
T
2018-06-05 00:29:41 UTC
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Hi All,

I just got off a remove assist with a customer.
I could not make heads of tail of what she was
complaining about. Then I realizes that

Windows 7 = Windows Live Mail
Windows 10 = gMail

I have a headache.

:-(

-T
David E. Ross
2018-06-05 00:46:17 UTC
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Post by T
Hi All,
I just got off a remove assist with a customer.
I could not make heads of tail of what she was
complaining about. Then I realizes that
Windows 7 = Windows Live Mail
Windows 10 = gMail
I have a headache.
:-(
-T
I often get similar information when dealing with customer support.
--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

First you say you do, and then you don't.
And then you say you will, but then won't.
You're undecided now, so what're you goin' to do?
From a 1950s song
That should be Donald Trump's theme song. He obviously
does not understand "commitment", whether it is about
policy or marriage.
T
2018-06-05 01:05:35 UTC
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Post by David E. Ross
Post by T
Hi All,
I just got off a remove assist with a customer.
I could not make heads of tail of what she was
complaining about. Then I realizes that
Windows 7 = Windows Live Mail
Windows 10 = gMail
I have a headache.
:-(
-T
I often get similar information when dealing with customer support.
Do they freak out that you erased all their eMail
if you bring up another program and the new windows
covers up their eMail program?
David E. Ross
2018-06-05 03:13:48 UTC
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Post by T
Post by David E. Ross
Post by T
Hi All,
I just got off a remove assist with a customer.
I could not make heads of tail of what she was
complaining about. Then I realizes that
Windows 7 = Windows Live Mail
Windows 10 = gMail
I have a headache.
:-(
-T
I often get similar information when dealing with customer support.
Do they freak out that you erased all their eMail
if you bring up another program and the new windows
covers up their eMail program?
That has never happened to me. But they do freak out if I (a customer)
have a problem that is not covered by their script. When I need
customer support and use the correct terminology to describe my problem,
the script-readers become confused.

Note that I do not make the mistake of "When A means B". My entire 40+
year career was with software. More than 30 of those years was as a
tester of software used by the US Department of Defense to operate its
unmanned, earth-orbiting satellites. During that time, I also performed
customer support, mostly for the US Air Force. Only the most senior
personnel in our organization were allowed to field customer-support
phone calls. We had no scripts. We did have user manuals, system and
program specifications, error reports, and even the source code of the
software. We usually knew exactly where to look to answer the
customer's questions. The customer not only had our office phone
numbers but also our home phone numbers. Just an hour or two before the
launch of one satellite, I got called out of the shower to provide
customer support -- successfully -- entirely from memory. That level of
customer support is very hard to find today.
--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

First you say you do, and then you don't.
And then you say you will, but then won't.
You're undecided now, so what're you goin' to do?
From a 1950s song
That should be Donald Trump's theme song. He obviously
does not understand "commitment", whether it is about
policy or marriage.
T
2018-06-05 05:05:22 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by David E. Ross
Post by T
Post by David E. Ross
Post by T
Hi All,
I just got off a remove assist with a customer.
I could not make heads of tail of what she was
complaining about. Then I realizes that
Windows 7 = Windows Live Mail
Windows 10 = gMail
I have a headache.
:-(
-T
I often get similar information when dealing with customer support.
Do they freak out that you erased all their eMail
if you bring up another program and the new windows
covers up their eMail program?
That has never happened to me. But they do freak out if I (a customer)
have a problem that is not covered by their script. When I need
customer support and use the correct terminology to describe my problem,
the script-readers become confused.
Note that I do not make the mistake of "When A means B". My entire 40+
year career was with software. More than 30 of those years was as a
tester of software used by the US Department of Defense to operate its
unmanned, earth-orbiting satellites. During that time, I also performed
customer support, mostly for the US Air Force. Only the most senior
personnel in our organization were allowed to field customer-support
phone calls. We had no scripts. We did have user manuals, system and
program specifications, error reports, and even the source code of the
software. We usually knew exactly where to look to answer the
customer's questions. The customer not only had our office phone
numbers but also our home phone numbers. Just an hour or two before the
launch of one satellite, I got called out of the shower to provide
customer support -- successfully -- entirely from memory. That level of
customer support is very hard to find today.
I hate arguing with scritpers" "May I just ask my question!?!?!"
George J
2018-06-06 16:12:26 UTC
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Post by David E. Ross
Just an hour or two before the
launch of one satellite, I got called out of the shower to provide
customer support -- successfully -- entirely from memory.  That level of
customer support is very hard to find today.
I hate arguing with scritpers"  "May I just ask my question!?!?!"
Thinking of customer support, once I called a satellite TV company to
ask about a HDTV DVR, and was asked "How many mushrooms to you have on
your dish?".
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-06-06 16:56:59 UTC
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Post by George J
Post by David E. Ross
Just an hour or two before the
launch of one satellite, I got called out of the shower to provide
customer support -- successfully -- entirely from memory.  That level of
customer support is very hard to find today.
I hate arguing with scritpers"  "May I just ask my question!?!?!"
Thinking of customer support, once I called a satellite TV company to
ask about a HDTV DVR, and was asked "How many mushrooms to you have on
your dish?".
I remember hearing (this is OT) about when the Aleutian islands (that
string of islands that sort of goes from Alaska to Siberia) first got
radio dishes (not sure whether it was for direct or satellite), the
natives found the dishes a good place to use for drying fish ...
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Eddie [Waring] underook elocution lessons in Leeds. After four weeks he was
asked to leave - all members in his class had begun to speak like him.
Stuart Hall, RT 7-13 August 2010
Sam E
2018-06-07 15:41:18 UTC
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On 06/06/2018 11:56 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

[snip]
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by George J
Thinking of customer support, once I called a satellite TV company to
ask about a HDTV DVR, and was asked "How many mushrooms to you have on
your dish?".
I remember hearing (this is OT) about when the Aleutian islands (that
string of islands that sort of goes from Alaska to Siberia) first got
radio dishes (not sure whether it was for direct or satellite), the
natives found the dishes a good place to use for drying fish ...
Maybe that would provide enough moisture for mushroom growth.
Char Jackson
2018-06-05 15:31:04 UTC
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On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 20:13:48 -0700, "David E. Ross"
Post by David E. Ross
Note that I do not make the mistake of "When A means B". My entire 40+
year career was with software. More than 30 of those years was as a
tester of software used by the US Department of Defense to operate its
unmanned, earth-orbiting satellites.
It's funny that you have to specify that those satellites were unmanned,
but if you don't, some people might assume that we have people up there,
and that's where they were calling from. ;-)
--
Char Jackson
Mark Lloyd
2018-06-06 16:16:38 UTC
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On 06/05/2018 10:31 AM, Char Jackson wrote:

[snip]
Post by Char Jackson
It's funny that you have to specify that those satellites were unmanned,
but if you don't, some people might assume that we have people up there,
and that's where they were calling from. ;-)
Once I read a story about a future (that didn't happen) where all
satellites had to be manned, because the electron tubes kept burning out.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"The best defense against Christianity is a good Christian Education"
[Psycho Dave]
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-06-06 17:01:01 UTC
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Post by Mark Lloyd
[snip]
Post by Char Jackson
It's funny that you have to specify that those satellites were unmanned,
but if you don't, some people might assume that we have people up there,
and that's where they were calling from. ;-)
Once I read a story about a future (that didn't happen) where all
satellites had to be manned, because the electron tubes kept burning out.
Was that Arthur C. Clarke's original paper (in Wireless World), 194x I
think, about communications satellites?

What struck me on reading it wasn't the manned status, but that they
involved steam power to drive the generators! I think when that paper
was written, photovoltaics as a source of energy were just a novelty,
certainly not capable of generating enough power to power the valves
(toobs) then current.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Eddie [Waring] underook elocution lessons in Leeds. After four weeks he was
asked to leave - all members in his class had begun to speak like him.
Stuart Hall, RT 7-13 August 2010
Mark Lloyd
2018-06-07 15:42:48 UTC
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On 06/06/2018 12:01 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

[snip]
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Was that Arthur C. Clarke's original paper (in Wireless World), 194x I
think, about communications satellites?
Sounds familiar.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
What struck me on reading it wasn't the manned status, but that they
involved steam power to drive the generators! I think when that paper
was written, photovoltaics as a source of energy were just a novelty,
certainly not capable of generating enough power to power the valves
(toobs) then current.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Doing nothing for others is the undoing of ourselves." -- Horace Mann
pyotr filipivich
2018-06-05 16:53:02 UTC
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Post by David E. Ross
We had no scripts. We did have user manuals, system and
program specifications, error reports, and even the source code of the
software. We usually knew exactly where to look to answer the
customer's questions. The customer not only had our office phone
numbers but also our home phone numbers. Just an hour or two before the
launch of one satellite, I got called out of the shower to provide
customer support -- successfully -- entirely from memory. That level of
customer support is very hard to find today.
That level of knowledge is often lacking, on both ends of the
call. But "RTFM!" presumes that there is a manual to be read. Far
too often there is not.

The scrip readers are capable of dealing with the 90% of questions
- the "FAQ"s. The problem is, what do I do when I have a question
the FAQs don't address? E.g., I wanted to know if WordPerfect had a
"signature" option, that is, to break up a large booklet into smaller
subbooklets ("signatures") for printing and binding. I had to explain
that 1) I know how to double sided printing 2) print a booklet and 3)
I wanted to know if the new release had that capacity.
Likewise when trying to find out if a printer will handle
"automatic duplex printing on legal size paper". not automatic duplex
print, not printing on legal size paper, not automatic printing on
legal size paper, but all three "automatic"+"duplex"+"legal size".
Arggh.

Enough venting. Time for coffee.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
Gene Wirchenko
2018-06-05 01:04:03 UTC
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Post by T
Hi All,
I just got off a remove assist with a customer.
I could not make heads of tail of what she was
complaining about. Then I realizes that
Windows 7 = Windows Live Mail
Windows 10 = gMail
I have a headache.
:-(
It happens. I was replacing a battery on a security system panel
today. The customer did not know the difference between a keypad and
the panel. Hey, they have other things to do.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
VanguardLH
2018-06-05 03:09:18 UTC
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I just got off a remove assist with a customer. I could not make heads
of tail of what she was complaining about. Then I realizes that
Windows 7 = Windows Live Mail
Windows 10 = gMail
I have a headache.
Windows 7 did not come with an e-mail client. If Windows Live Mail
(WLM), formerly named Windows Live Mail Desktop, is on that computer
then the user installed it. Windows Mail came with Windows Vista. WLM
was the successor to Vista's Mail (that version of it since Microsoft
has reused the name "Mail" in Windows 8 but for a different client). On
a clean install of Windows 7, if you wanted to locally do e-mail (and
not get stuck using a web browser to connect to a webmail client) then
you had to install an e-mail program. Outlook, Thunderbird, em Client,
or something including WLM.

Windows 10 comes with Mail, not gMail (which is an online service, not a
local client).

Windows XP: Outlook Express (part of IE which came bundled in XP).
Windows Vista: Mail (different than the prior Microsoft Mail).
Windows 7: No e-mail client (you have to install one).
Windows 8: Windows Mail (different than Vista's Mail), no POP (only
IMAP and Exchange).
Windows 10: Mail (the local client, not the gMail service). (*)

(*) I found no app named "gMail" in Microsoft's store. Maybe someone
somewhere else has a Windows 10 app called "gMail" (who mustn't be
afraid of Google for trademark infringment). Whether from
Microsoft's store or elsewhere, the user would have to install it.

Does "Mail" mean Microsoft Mail, Mail (Vista 8), or Mail (Windows 10)?
Does "Outlook" mean Outlook Express or Outlook or Outlook.com?
Distinguishable naming is not a forte of Microsoft. Neither is sticking
with a name.

https://www.howtogeek.com/338120/microsoft-sucks-at-naming-products/
https://www.pcworld.com/article/161618/worst_ms_names.html
and more at
https://www.google.com/search?q=confusing+microsoft+product+names
T
2018-06-05 05:07:40 UTC
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Post by VanguardLH
I just got off a remove assist with a customer. I could not make heads
of tail of what she was complaining about. Then I realizes that
Windows 7 = Windows Live Mail
Windows 10 = gMail
I have a headache.
Windows 7 did not come with an e-mail client. If Windows Live Mail
(WLM), formerly named Windows Live Mail Desktop, is on that computer
then the user installed it. Windows Mail came with Windows Vista. WLM
was the successor to Vista's Mail (that version of it since Microsoft
has reused the name "Mail" in Windows 8 but for a different client). On
a clean install of Windows 7, if you wanted to locally do e-mail (and
not get stuck using a web browser to connect to a webmail client) then
you had to install an e-mail program. Outlook, Thunderbird, em Client,
or something including WLM.
Windows 10 comes with Mail, not gMail (which is an online service, not a
local client).
Windows XP: Outlook Express (part of IE which came bundled in XP).
Windows Vista: Mail (different than the prior Microsoft Mail).
Windows 7: No e-mail client (you have to install one).
Windows 8: Windows Mail (different than Vista's Mail), no POP (only
IMAP and Exchange).
Windows 10: Mail (the local client, not the gMail service). (*)
(*) I found no app named "gMail" in Microsoft's store. Maybe someone
somewhere else has a Windows 10 app called "gMail" (who mustn't be
afraid of Google for trademark infringment). Whether from
Microsoft's store or elsewhere, the user would have to install it.
Does "Mail" mean Microsoft Mail, Mail (Vista 8), or Mail (Windows 10)?
Does "Outlook" mean Outlook Express or Outlook or Outlook.com?
Distinguishable naming is not a forte of Microsoft. Neither is sticking
with a name.
https://www.howtogeek.com/338120/microsoft-sucks-at-naming-products/
https://www.pcworld.com/article/161618/worst_ms_names.html
and more at
https://www.google.com/search?q=confusing+microsoft+product+names
It is usually pretty easy to figure out the wrong descriptions
(Hard Drive = computer case, "The Picture" = Desktop, screen
saver = desktop), but today was a real head ache.
VanguardLH
2018-06-06 04:35:45 UTC
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Post by T
It is usually pretty easy to figure out the wrong descriptions
(Hard Drive = computer case, "The Picture" = Desktop, screen
saver = desktop), but today was a real head ache.
Cup holder
Ejecting the CD tray.
Piggy bank
The space between drives in the case bays (yep, kids). Luckily it was
a tower case.
Scanner isn't working
User is holding paper against monitor while running scanner software.
Can't move down a web page
Dragging the scrollbar down (instead of up).
Power strip
Wonders why their cordless phone goes dead when they turn off their PC
using the power strip (where the cordless phone is plugged into).
PC goes off when leave room
PC on switched wall outlet.
Cordless mouse/keyboard stopped working
Needs new batteries.
PC comes on, not monitor
Use the pwr switch on the monitor.
Mouse is hard to use
Trackball turned upside down, ball kept falling out.
Booting to wrong OS or says missing kernel
Remove CD from drive.
Can't access network
Scheduled maintainence/outage, everyone informed, user doesn't bother
to read company e-mail notifications (required by policy).
Request to remove lockscreen
User wanted it easier to text while driving. Denied.
Printer always ran out of paper overnight
Found a user was downloading AND printing porn. Fired. No one wanted
to touch his keyboard. Discarded.
Can't access site
Employee wants exclusions to censor list so they can prattle at
Facebook, Twitter, etc while at work. Denied. Tried using an
external VPN service provider. Manager informed.
User still gets error from known fixed bug
Reports error. Provided with update. Still reports error. Asked if
they installed the update. No.
Monitor blank
Unplugged to clean. Tell them to plug back in. They don't know how.
No Microsoft Office
Well, it isn't in the distro package. Buy it, install it. Expects
ALL Microsoft software to come in Microsoft's Windows.
Can't get new APG video card working, no video on boot
(Won't describe everything he did for 2 months - and he was a tech
also working in the same QA dept). Brought it in figuring to swap
it out alpha lab gear. Noooooo way. Looked at it. Pressed the card
completely down into AGP slot. Booted and worked okay. Wouldn't go
out to lunch with me until I managed to stop grinning when I saw him.
Can't login
Remembers his password but not his username. Told it was his
<first><last> names, no spaces, all lowercase. Complains that he
couldn't possibly remember such a long name. It's HIS name and he
can't remember that?
Speakers not working (externally powered)
No power (unplugged). They called back after plugging in, still no
sound. Turn up volume knob on speaker.
How to use telephone
New phones put on workdesks. Get a call asking "How do I use the
phone?" "Um, how did you call me?" "Oh, ah, never mind."
How to install a program
Caller asks "I started the install. Says to click Next. What do I
do?" "What happens when you click Next?" "Oh, it's working now."
Bug found, dev says software works okay
QA reports a bug in a new release. Developer reports the software
works on his workstation. Great, ship your workstation to the
customer. Dev had installed an SDK that the customer wouldn't have
and not part of the installation (nor should be required).
No details at all
"My manager's PC isn't working." "What is happening?" "Don't know,
don't use it. Can you fix it?"
Ethereal floppy
"Does the floppy need to be in the drive when I save to it?"
Ethereal computer
(Troubleshooting a problem.) User reports nothing happened.
Eventually user mentions "Does the computer have to be on?"
The KVM was at fault
User can't get any keystrokes recognized by computer. Found he uses a
KVM. Had him switch shared keyboard to other computer. Now it works.
Computer-assisted memory
"No, clicking the 'Remember Password' button will not help YOU
remember the password."
Bio remoting
Customer keeps saying "Look are where I'm pointing!"
Colors are unique
"What brand and model of computer do you have?" "A black one."
Timezone irrelevant
"We're open 24 hours." "Is that Eastern time?"
Paperless printer
"Printer says it's out of paper. How do I get it to print?"
Wolf K
2018-06-06 12:59:59 UTC
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Post by VanguardLH
Post by T
It is usually pretty easy to figure out the wrong descriptions
(Hard Drive = computer case, "The Picture" = Desktop, screen
saver = desktop), but today was a real head ache.
Cup holder
Ejecting the CD tray.
[ssnip examples]

Thanks for the laughs.

:-)
--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and
what is right to do. Potter Stewart
fnot
2018-06-06 18:53:42 UTC
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Client: PC doesn't work.
Script: Is the PC plugged in to the electrical wall socket?
Client: The technician just set me up with wireless internet. I don't
need to plug it in anymore.
T
2018-06-06 15:15:56 UTC
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Post by T
I just got off a remove assist with a customer. I could not make heads
of tail of what she was complaining about.  Then I realizes that
       Windows 7   =   Windows Live Mail
       Windows 10  =   gMail
I have a headache.
Windows 7 did not come with an e-mail client.  If Windows Live Mail
(WLM), formerly named Windows Live Mail Desktop, is on that computer
then the user installed it.  Windows Mail came with Windows Vista.  WLM
was the successor to Vista's Mail (that version of it since Microsoft
has reused the name "Mail" in Windows 8 but for a different client).  On
a clean install of Windows 7, if you wanted to locally do e-mail (and
not get stuck using a web browser to connect to a webmail client) then
you had to install an e-mail program.  Outlook, Thunderbird, em Client,
or something including WLM.
Windows 10 comes with Mail, not gMail (which is an online service, not a
local client).
Windows XP:    Outlook Express (part of IE which came bundled in XP).
Windows Vista: Mail (different than the prior Microsoft Mail).
Windows 7:     No e-mail client (you have to install one).
Windows 8:     Windows Mail (different than Vista's Mail), no POP (only
                IMAP and Exchange).
Windows 10:    Mail (the local client, not the gMail service). (*)
(*) I found no app named "gMail" in Microsoft's store.  Maybe someone
     somewhere else has a Windows 10 app called "gMail" (who mustn't be
     afraid of Google for trademark infringment).  Whether from
     Microsoft's store or elsewhere, the user would have to install it.
Does "Mail" mean Microsoft Mail, Mail (Vista 8), or Mail (Windows 10)?
Does "Outlook" mean Outlook Express or Outlook or Outlook.com?
Distinguishable naming is not a forte of Microsoft.  Neither is sticking
with a name.
https://www.howtogeek.com/338120/microsoft-sucks-at-naming-products/
https://www.pcworld.com/article/161618/worst_ms_names.html
and more at
https://www.google.com/search?q=confusing+microsoft+product+names
It is usually pretty easy to figure out the wrong descriptions
(Hard Drive = computer case, "The Picture" = Desktop, screen
saver = desktop), but today was a real head ache.
The latest: "every time I walk away from the computer,
it turns off and I have to power it back up again".

Okay, that means overheat. Probably the CPU fan went out.

Got to the computer, moved stuff away from the case,
including the mouse so I could look at the fans.

Well now, moving the mouse caused the screen to come back
on at the log in prompt. The customer points and
says "see!".

That is not powering it back up! Configured her power
settings to never suspend and she was happy.

AAAA HHHHHHH !!!!!
T
2018-06-11 22:54:09 UTC
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Post by T
Hi All,
I just got off a remove assist with a customer.
I could not make heads of tail of what she was
complaining about.  Then I realizes that
     Windows 7   =   Windows Live Mail
     Windows 10  =   gMail
I have a headache.
:-(
-T
Same customer.  Finally got to see her prompt to upgrade her
"Windows 10".

     "An update for Microsoft Office Starter Edition 2010 ..."

At least she no longer thinks I am deleting all her eMail when
I pull another program in front of her eMail.

:'(

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