Discussion:
Anyone have a good PCIe USB 3.1 card they like?
(too old to reply)
T
2018-06-01 17:39:19 UTC
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Hi All,

Stay away from the Star Tech PEXUSB311AC2

StarTech.com Dual Port USB 3.1 Card – 1x USB-C – 1x
USB-A – 10Gbps per port – Expansion Card – USB 3.1 PCI-E
Card – USB 3 PCI

It crashes your file system on large file transfers and crashes your
boot if anything is plugged into it when you boot.

Anyone have a favorite PCIe USB 3.1 card that actually
works right? Siig?


Many thanks,
-T
😉 Good Guy 😉
2018-06-01 18:06:41 UTC
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Post by T
Hi All,
Stay
Rogue trader is back asking questions about how to defraud
customers!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by T
/--- This email has been checked for viruses by
Windows Defender software.
//https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/comprehensive-security/
--
With over 600 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.
VanguardLH
2018-06-01 18:42:14 UTC
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Post by T
Stay away from the Star Tech PEXUSB311AC2
StarTech.com Dual Port USB 3.1 Card – 1x USB-C – 1x
USB-A – 10Gbps per port – Expansion Card – USB 3.1 PCI-E
Card – USB 3 PCI
It crashes your file system on large file transfers and crashes your
boot if anything is plugged into it when you boot.
Which one?
https://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/USB-3.0/Cards/

Since you mentioned "dual port", I'll assume just 2 backside ports: one
USB-A and the other USB-C. That narrows the list down to:

PEXUSB311AC2
https://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/USB-3.0/Cards/2-port-usb-3-1-card~PEXUSB311AC2

PEXUSB311A1C
https://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/USB-3.0/Cards/2-port-usb-3-1-card~PEXUSB311A1C

Under the Support tab on those product pages, the same driver is listed:

[ASMedia ASM1142] Windows USB 3.1 Controller Card.zip
Version: 1.16.47.2

If I was installing that daughtercard, I'd first try with just the card
(hardware only) to see if the Windows-included drivers worked okay. If
not, then I'd install the vendor-supplied drivers. if those didn't
work, I'd go to the chip maker (likely Asmedia per the driver title) to
see if their drivers worked. Since the product description says it
supports USB 3.1 Gen 2 (for 10 Gbps), from:

http://www.asmedia.com.tw/eng/e_products_list.php?item=83&cate_index=0

I'd try the USB 3.1 Gen 2 device controller chip. Clicking on that
drops down a list of 3 chip models. Look at the daughtercard to see
which chip number is used on that card. StarTech also lists the chip
number in their product description (but when I went bas to the Asmedia
site then they were down). Alas, none of those had a link to a driver
download. I suspect the driver is selected based on a combination of
the USB controller chip along with the PCIE bridge chip (since you are
bridging USB protocol to PCIe protocol).

I went to http://www.asmedia.com.tw/ to see if they had a download page
for drivers. Whatever their Flash content was, I'm not going to see it
(have Flash disabled in my web browsers). Looks like the general public
doesn't get their drivers.

No such thing as perfect hardware for all units. Could be you got a bad
one. Called StarTech support yet?
T
2018-06-01 20:18:57 UTC
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Post by VanguardLH
Post by T
Star Tech PEXUSB311AC2
Which one?
PEXUSB311AC2

https://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/USB-3.0/Cards/2-port-usb-3-1-card~PEXUSB311AC2
Paul
2018-06-01 22:43:17 UTC
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Post by T
Post by VanguardLH
Post by T
Star Tech PEXUSB311AC2
Which one?
PEXUSB311AC2
https://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/USB-3.0/Cards/2-port-usb-3-1-card~PEXUSB311AC2
The specs there say it uses a 2142 chip.

http://www.asmedia.com.tw/eng/e_show_products.php?item=178&cate_index=175

Support PCI Express Revision 3 x2

Paul
VanguardLH
2018-06-02 01:32:57 UTC
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Post by Paul
Post by T
PEXUSB311AC2
https://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/USB-3.0/Cards/2-port-usb-3-1-card~PEXUSB311AC2
The specs there say it uses a 2142 chip.
http://www.asmedia.com.tw/eng/e_show_products.php?item=178&cate_index=175
Support PCI Express Revision 3 x2
Does Windows 7 include in its install image a driver compatible with
USB 3.1? From a cursory online scan, looks like the user must install a
driver to add USB 3.1 support (perhaps just an INF file to define the
characteristics and naming of the device).

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/usbcon/system-supplied-usb-drivers

I didn't find "3.1" in the usb.inf file but then I didn't find "3.0" or
"2.0", either. In the "[Manufacturer]" section, only some makers are
listed (to reference later sections in the INF file); else, the device
would be handled as a generic or standard USB device.

While USB controllers on the mobo should be detected by Windows, will
USB controllers on PCI[e] cards be automatically detected by Windows and
hence the need for a driver to identify the device to Windows?

I also looked in winusb.inf. Nothing there noted USB versions as to
what Windows 7 would natively support with its included drivers. I'm
not disassembling the usbccgp.sys or winusb.sys driver files to see if
they indicate support for USB 3.x (especially 3.1).

From memory and some cursory reading just now, Windows 7 only supports
up to USB 2.0. For example, see:

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000017241/mini-pcs.html

The OP must install a driver to add USB 3.x support in Windows 7. The
OP never mentioned which driver he used for the PCI-e daughtercard but
then the OP merely mentioned the Asmedia chipped card from StarTech as a
lamblast, not how to troubleshoot that card, and instead was looking for
alternative cards. Tough to make any suggestions if he is already
having problems with a USB 3.1 card and its driver since the same could
happen with any alternative suggestion.
Paul
2018-06-02 02:05:22 UTC
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Post by VanguardLH
Post by Paul
Post by T
PEXUSB311AC2
https://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/USB-3.0/Cards/2-port-usb-3-1-card~PEXUSB311AC2
The specs there say it uses a 2142 chip.
http://www.asmedia.com.tw/eng/e_show_products.php?item=178&cate_index=175
Support PCI Express Revision 3 x2
Does Windows 7 include in its install image a driver compatible with
USB 3.1? From a cursory online scan, looks like the user must install a
driver to add USB 3.1 support (perhaps just an INF file to define the
characteristics and naming of the device).
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/usbcon/system-supplied-usb-drivers
I didn't find "3.1" in the usb.inf file but then I didn't find "3.0" or
"2.0", either. In the "[Manufacturer]" section, only some makers are
listed (to reference later sections in the INF file); else, the device
would be handled as a generic or standard USB device.
While USB controllers on the mobo should be detected by Windows, will
USB controllers on PCI[e] cards be automatically detected by Windows and
hence the need for a driver to identify the device to Windows?
I also looked in winusb.inf. Nothing there noted USB versions as to
what Windows 7 would natively support with its included drivers. I'm
not disassembling the usbccgp.sys or winusb.sys driver files to see if
they indicate support for USB 3.x (especially 3.1).
From memory and some cursory reading just now, Windows 7 only supports
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000017241/mini-pcs.html
The OP must install a driver to add USB 3.x support in Windows 7. The
OP never mentioned which driver he used for the PCI-e daughtercard but
then the OP merely mentioned the Asmedia chipped card from StarTech as a
lamblast, not how to troubleshoot that card, and instead was looking for
alternative cards. Tough to make any suggestions if he is already
having problems with a USB 3.1 card and its driver since the same could
happen with any alternative suggestion.
Windows 7 supports USB2, just as WinXP SP3 or so did.

And in fact the "capture" is done via licensing.

Intel releases INFINST.exe to install drivers. But the
section for USB2 states "#include usbport" or similar.
In other words, while Intel makes it look like they're
providing a USB2 driver in that case, in fact they call
the Microsoft INF for the job, and Microsoft does it.
The Intel USB driver contributes a text string that
shows in Device Manager.

*******

On Windows 7, each manufacturer of chip provides a driver.
If you install an add-on Asmedia card, it can only work
if you insert your Asmedia CD and install the Win7 driver
contained on the mini-CD.

If you then buy a NEC/Renesas USB3 card and install that,
then you need a separate driver from Renesas for that.

The cards won't do anything until that step is taken.

It's just as likely the problem in this cases is
unrelated to the add-in hardware, as anything else.
Similar to how I thought I had a storage issue (system
crash after ~15GB of data transferred). But instead, it
turned out to be bad RAM.

A person can use Driver Verifier, assuming they can find
a good article with suggested settings. But Driver Verifier
is just as likely to make symptoms "disappear" while it's
running, as flag an actual issue. That's what happened to
me once, when I tried out Driver Verifier - the problem
disappeared.

Paul
Paul
2018-06-01 20:44:11 UTC
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Post by T
Hi All,
Stay away from the Star Tech PEXUSB311AC2
StarTech.com Dual Port USB 3.1 Card – 1x USB-C – 1x
USB-A – 10Gbps per port – Expansion Card – USB 3.1 PCI-E
Card – USB 3 PCI
It crashes your file system on large file transfers and crashes your
boot if anything is plugged into it when you boot.
Anyone have a favorite PCIe USB 3.1 card that actually
works right? Siig?
Many thanks,
-T
PCI Express should have CRC per packet. If you could
find a statistics counter, you could see if it's doing
excessive retries or something.

http://www.asmedia.com.tw/eng/e_show_products.php?item=158&cate_index=98

The chip uses PCIe Rev2 x2 or PCIe Rev3 x1 lanes.

I would start by plugging it into a x16 video card
slot, because the primary slot is pretty well guaranteed
to have a low jitter clock for the thing. Depending
on the design, some other slots might be using
regenerated clocks of some sort.

At times like this, I have a PCI bus video card
I can use, which frees up more choices for PCIe
tests.

Sure, it could be drivers, but this is Asmedia, and
they have half a clue. They do a lot of this stuff.
I could see some other brands leaving a few doubts
in your mind, but these guys do pretty well at it.

The PCB design could be bad, so there's always that.
You'd need to see a reference design, with notes,
to understand how they could screw it up (usually
that sort of info is under NDA).

*******

Don't forget to do a memtest86+ test run on the PC
in question, as there's a remote chance it could
be RAM related. And this particular stress test
just happened to uncover it.

Paul
Zaidy036
2018-06-01 20:52:43 UTC
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Post by T
Hi All,
Stay away from the Star Tech PEXUSB311AC2
    StarTech.com Dual Port USB 3.1 Card – 1x USB-C – 1x
    USB-A – 10Gbps per port – Expansion Card – USB 3.1 PCI-E
    Card – USB 3 PCI
It crashes your file system on large file transfers and crashes your
boot if anything is plugged into it when you boot.
Anyone have a favorite PCIe USB 3.1 card that actually
works right?  Siig?
Many thanks,
-T
I have been using this one on Win 7 Home 64 bit for over a year without
problems.
On sale $19.99 for 4 port card.

<http://www.kdlinks.com/index.php/usb-3-0/kdlinksr-usb-3-0-super-speed-4-port-pci-e-express-extension-card-with-4-pin-power-connector-for-desktops.html>
--
Zaidy036
T
2018-06-01 21:20:46 UTC
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Post by Zaidy036
Post by T
Hi All,
Stay away from the Star Tech PEXUSB311AC2
     StarTech.com Dual Port USB 3.1 Card – 1x USB-C – 1x
     USB-A – 10Gbps per port – Expansion Card – USB 3.1 PCI-E
     Card – USB 3 PCI
It crashes your file system on large file transfers and crashes your
boot if anything is plugged into it when you boot.
Anyone have a favorite PCIe USB 3.1 card that actually
works right?  Siig?
Many thanks,
-T
I have been using this one on Win 7 Home 64 bit for over a year without
problems.
On sale $19.99 for 4 port card.
<http://www.kdlinks.com/index.php/usb-3-0/kdlinksr-usb-3-0-super-speed-4-port-pci-e-express-extension-card-with-4-pin-power-connector-for-desktops.html>
Cool. Thank you!

I am looking to see if they have a 3.1 card right now.

:-)
T
2018-06-01 21:21:45 UTC
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Post by Zaidy036
Post by T
Hi All,
Stay away from the Star Tech PEXUSB311AC2
     StarTech.com Dual Port USB 3.1 Card – 1x USB-C – 1x
     USB-A – 10Gbps per port – Expansion Card – USB 3.1 PCI-E
     Card – USB 3 PCI
It crashes your file system on large file transfers and crashes your
boot if anything is plugged into it when you boot.
Anyone have a favorite PCIe USB 3.1 card that actually
works right?  Siig?
Many thanks,
-T
I have been using this one on Win 7 Home 64 bit for over a year
without problems.
On sale $19.99 for 4 port card.
<http://www.kdlinks.com/index.php/usb-3-0/kdlinksr-usb-3-0-super-speed-4-port-pci-e-express-extension-card-with-4-pin-power-connector-for-desktops.html>
Cool.  Thank you!
I am looking to see if they have a 3.1 card right now.
Nope. Rats!
T
2018-06-01 23:33:42 UTC
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Post by T
Hi All,
Stay away from the Star Tech PEXUSB311AC2
    StarTech.com Dual Port USB 3.1 Card – 1x USB-C – 1x
    USB-A – 10Gbps per port – Expansion Card – USB 3.1 PCI-E
    Card – USB 3 PCI
It crashes your file system on large file transfers and crashes your
boot if anything is plugged into it when you boot.
Anyone have a favorite PCIe USB 3.1 card that actually
works right?  Siig?
Many thanks,
-T
I am looking at this one:

http://www.siig.com/it-products/usb/adapters/pcie/usb-3-1-2-port-pcie-host-adapter-type-a-c.html

But I can not tell which chipset it uses
T
2018-06-01 23:42:07 UTC
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Post by T
Post by T
Hi All,
Stay away from the Star Tech PEXUSB311AC2
     StarTech.com Dual Port USB 3.1 Card – 1x USB-C – 1x
     USB-A – 10Gbps per port – Expansion Card – USB 3.1 PCI-E
     Card – USB 3 PCI
It crashes your file system on large file transfers and crashes your
boot if anything is plugged into it when you boot.
Anyone have a favorite PCIe USB 3.1 card that actually
works right?  Siig?
Many thanks,
-T
http://www.siig.com/it-products/usb/adapters/pcie/usb-3-1-2-port-pcie-host-adapter-type-a-c.html
But I can not tell which chipset it uses
Found it:

Chipset: Asmedia ASM1142

Wonder if it works any better than the asmedia 2142?
VanguardLH
2018-06-02 01:38:33 UTC
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Post by T
Post by T
Post by T
Anyone have a favorite PCIe USB 3.1 card that actually
works right?  Siig?
http://www.siig.com/it-products/usb/adapters/pcie/usb-3-1-2-port-pcie-host-adapter-type-a-c.html
But I can not tell which chipset it uses
Chipset: Asmedia ASM1142
Wonder if it works any better than the asmedia 2142?
Note the list of operating systems supported by this card at:

http://www.siig.com/download/search/?keyword=JU-P20A12-S1
(when going to your link for the product page, I clicked on Downloads to
see what were available for this card.)

Windows 7 is not included. Why? SIIG does *not* provide a driver for
this card. They rely on the one included in Windows. However, as
mentioned in my reply to Paul, Windows 7 only supports up to USB 2.0.
Windows 7 does *NOT* natively support USB 3.x, so you cannot use this
card with Windows 7. you MUST install a driver in Windows 7 to add USB
3.x, and SIIG doesn't provide one for that card.
T
2018-06-02 02:13:46 UTC
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Post by VanguardLH
Post by T
Post by T
Post by T
Anyone have a favorite PCIe USB 3.1 card that actually
works right?  Siig?
http://www.siig.com/it-products/usb/adapters/pcie/usb-3-1-2-port-pcie-host-adapter-type-a-c.html
But I can not tell which chipset it uses
Chipset: Asmedia ASM1142
Wonder if it works any better than the asmedia 2142?
http://www.siig.com/download/search/?keyword=JU-P20A12-S1
(when going to your link for the product page, I clicked on Downloads to
see what were available for this card.)
Windows 7 is not included. Why? SIIG does *not* provide a driver for
this card. They rely on the one included in Windows. However, as
mentioned in my reply to Paul, Windows 7 only supports up to USB 2.0.
Windows 7 does *NOT* natively support USB 3.x, so you cannot use this
card with Windows 7. you MUST install a driver in Windows 7 to add USB
3.x, and SIIG doesn't provide one for that card.
I just will install the chipset drivers from Intel
VanguardLH
2018-06-02 04:48:43 UTC
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Post by T
Post by VanguardLH
Post by T
Post by T
Post by T
Anyone have a favorite PCIe USB 3.1 card that actually
works right?  Siig?
http://www.siig.com/it-products/usb/adapters/pcie/usb-3-1-2-port-pcie-host-adapter-type-a-c.html
But I can not tell which chipset it uses
Chipset: Asmedia ASM1142
Wonder if it works any better than the asmedia 2142?
http://www.siig.com/download/search/?keyword=JU-P20A12-S1
(when going to your link for the product page, I clicked on Downloads to
see what were available for this card.)
Windows 7 is not included. Why? SIIG does *not* provide a driver for
this card. They rely on the one included in Windows. However, as
mentioned in my reply to Paul, Windows 7 only supports up to USB 2.0.
Windows 7 does *NOT* natively support USB 3.x, so you cannot use this
card with Windows 7. you MUST install a driver in Windows 7 to add USB
3.x, and SIIG doesn't provide one for that card.
I just will install the chipset drivers from Intel
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/25476

That only has a link to their Creator utility that somehow builds a
modified ISO image of the Windows 7 install image to install their USB3
driver(s). Sounds pretty much what nLite does, too (once you have the
driver files to add to the image). Doesn't look like this tool is a
driver installer, like to update Windows 7 to USB3 support.

Where are you getting the USB3 drivers from Intel?

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/product/65855/Intel-USB-3-0-eXtensible-Host-Controller-Driver

I found some there but they are for specific Intel chipsets. Are you
using a mobo with an Intel chipset? If not, you'll have to get AMD's
mobo chipset driver that has USB3 support. I didn't find USB-only
drivers from AMD's site and their chipset drivers don't describe what
all they support in their drivers. I did find:

https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/downloads/ds030088
http://drivers.softpedia.com/get/MOTHERBOARD/AMD/AMD-USB-30-xHC-Host-Controller-Driver-1100210-for-Windows-7.shtml

Might be generic enough to work on any AMD chipset mobo. If you get the
chip driver from the chip maker, those are reference drivers and may not
utilize all of a chip after it is in-circuit on the card due to missing
or additional ancillary logic on the board. Best is to see of the mobo
(or system maker for pre-builts) have the driver for however they
implemented the chip within their card design. You have to hope the
mobo or system maker hasn't yet abandoned Windows 7 or they didn't
design their product for a later version of Windows so they don't have
drivers for the older Windows versions.

http://drivers.softpedia.com/get/Other-DRIVERS-TOOLS/AMD/AMD-Chipset-Driver-121-for-Vista-Windows-7.shtml

That one doesn't list an AMD chipset. It is a chipset driver bundle, so
you might find it listed at AMD's site.
T
2018-06-02 04:52:04 UTC
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Post by VanguardLH
Where are you getting the USB3 drivers from Intel?
I usually get them from the motherboard vendor's web site.
Sometimes from Intel.
Brian Gregory
2018-06-04 17:32:32 UTC
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Post by T
Post by VanguardLH
Post by T
Post by T
Post by T
Anyone have a favorite PCIe USB 3.1 card that actually
works right?  Siig?
http://www.siig.com/it-products/usb/adapters/pcie/usb-3-1-2-port-pcie-host-adapter-type-a-c.html
But I can not tell which chipset it uses
Chipset: Asmedia ASM1142
Wonder if it works any better than the asmedia 2142?
http://www.siig.com/download/search/?keyword=JU-P20A12-S1
(when going to your link for the product page, I clicked on Downloads to
see what were available for this card.)
Windows 7 is not included.  Why?  SIIG does *not* provide a driver for
this card.  They rely on the one included in Windows.  However, as
mentioned in my reply to Paul, Windows 7 only supports up to USB 2.0.
Windows 7 does *NOT* natively support USB 3.x, so you cannot use this
card with Windows 7.  you MUST install a driver in Windows 7 to add USB
3.x, and SIIG doesn't provide one for that card.
I just will install the chipset drivers from Intel
Post by VanguardLH
Post by T
Chipset: Asmedia ASM1142
--
Brian Gregory (in England).
T
2018-06-04 19:28:24 UTC
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Post by T
Chipset: Asmedia ASM1142
me make boo-boo.

I wonder if there are an USB3.1 cards with Intel chipsets?
Brian Gregory
2018-06-04 20:29:10 UTC
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Post by T
 >>> Chipset: Asmedia ASM1142
me make boo-boo.
I wonder if there are an USB3.1 cards with Intel chipsets?
Use USB 3.0 if it's just for making backups. You'll probably never find
a USB hard drive that goes anywhere near the speed limit of USB 3.0 anyway.
--
Brian Gregory (in England).
T
2018-06-04 21:16:40 UTC
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Post by Brian Gregory
Post by T
 >>> Chipset: Asmedia ASM1142
me make boo-boo.
I wonder if there are an USB3.1 cards with Intel chipsets?
Use USB 3.0 if it's just for making backups. You'll probably never find
a USB hard drive that goes anywhere near the speed limit of USB 3.0 anyway.
The SSD ones seem to keep up. The mechanical ones, not so much
Paul
2018-06-04 21:23:41 UTC
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Post by Brian Gregory
Post by T
Post by T
Chipset: Asmedia ASM1142
me make boo-boo.
I wonder if there are an USB3.1 cards with Intel chipsets?
Use USB 3.0 if it's just for making backups. You'll probably never find
a USB hard drive that goes anywhere near the speed limit of USB 3.0 anyway.
There was one product.

It had SATA on one end, and a USB3 TypeC connector on the
other end. And it would do 700MB/sec because it was an SSD.

I see a number of sites doing USB3 testing now, using products
that have RAID 0 inside the box, and that's how they build
an SSD based solution that goes fast enough to test the plumbing.
Rather than that specialized elegant all-in-one USB3 TypeC test device.
There are now cheaper ways to build a test device for a USB3 port.

Paul
Paul
2018-06-04 20:47:36 UTC
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Post by T
Post by T
Chipset: Asmedia ASM1142
me make boo-boo.
I wonder if there are an USB3.1 cards with Intel chipsets?
Intel is only in the "add-on" business in a limited way.

It makes Ethernet products.

But it doesn't try to go head to head with Asmedia.
You won't find $40 Siig cards with an Intel chip
on them (with the exception of maybe an Ethernet card,
and even then, the Ethernet card might be Intel branded).

If there are four or six companies making competing
products, Intel is not interested. It doesn't like
participating in "fights to the bottom".

You need to ship a great deal of volume to make
a buck, in the add-on chip business. Intel has the
skill (and the IP blocks) to do it, but not the will.
They don't want to sell $5 8085 chips, or jelly bean
this-or-that. They want to sell plastic chips for
$300 a pop. That's their dream job. Just the
driver support team for products like that, would
probably hoover up all the profit (salaries).

Intel does Alpine Ridge for $8, but that's because
Thunderbolt is an Intel invention. And I don't know
how many competitors make similar chips.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/9485/intel-skylake-z170-motherboards-asrock-asus-gigabyte-msi-ecs-evga-supermicro

https://ark.intel.com/products/87401/Intel-DSL6340-Thunderbolt-3-Controller

Intel has "tried" a number of businesses and dumped them.

To give an example of their dream job, take the FPGA
company they bought. Now, just recently, they offered
a PCB for sale, with 10GbE Ethernets and FPGAs on it.
The card costs *$40,000* and is sold to "quants". Now,
how is that for gouging a niche market ? Pretty sweet.
If you sell one of those, you can take the whole
department out for lunch. Quants are stock market
manipulators, who use low low latency Ethernet
connections to the Stock Exchange, to do their own
particular flavor of trading.

Who ever the individual was at Intel who figured out
somebody would buy that, I'm sure that individual
received a sports car this year as a bonus. How
many USB3 controllers at $5 a pop would you have
to sell to match that ? The net profit on a USB3
chip probably isn't that large.

Intel starts investigating alternative businesses,
any time it feels the wheels are falling off
the processor business. There will be a burst
of activity. In this case, pulling an FPGA company
into the fold, was a side effect (the FPGA company
might have been using them for fab services before
the acquisition).

Paul
Paul
2018-06-02 02:15:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by VanguardLH
Post by T
Post by T
Post by T
Anyone have a favorite PCIe USB 3.1 card that actually
works right? Siig?
http://www.siig.com/it-products/usb/adapters/pcie/usb-3-1-2-port-pcie-host-adapter-type-a-c.html
But I can not tell which chipset it uses
Chipset: Asmedia ASM1142
Wonder if it works any better than the asmedia 2142?
http://www.siig.com/download/search/?keyword=JU-P20A12-S1
(when going to your link for the product page, I clicked on Downloads to
see what were available for this card.)
Windows 7 is not included. Why? SIIG does *not* provide a driver for
this card. They rely on the one included in Windows. However, as
mentioned in my reply to Paul, Windows 7 only supports up to USB 2.0.
Windows 7 does *NOT* natively support USB 3.x, so you cannot use this
card with Windows 7. you MUST install a driver in Windows 7 to add USB
3.x, and SIIG doesn't provide one for that card.
ASM1142

http://www.asmedia.com.tw/eng/e_show_products.php?item=158&cate_index=98

* Support driver on Windows 7, Windows 8, and Windows 8.1
* Support various Linux Kernels

ASM2142

http://www.asmedia.com.tw/eng/e_show_products.php?item=178&cate_index=175

* Support driver on Windows7, Windows8, Windows 8.1, and Windows 10
* Support various Linux kernels

Which implies that (somehow) the "flavor" of the 2142 isn't supported
by Windows 10 itself at the moment.

However, take these web page things with a grain of salt, because
I've seen promises of drivers before on a chip manufacturer site,
where in fact no such driver existed. Windows 7 is still in extended
support, but companies do whatever the hell they feel like most
of the time.

It's strange that Siig doesn't offer a driver. Some of
Siigs competitors are a bit better about this stuff.

Paul
VanguardLH
2018-06-02 04:29:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by VanguardLH
Post by VanguardLH
Post by T
Post by T
Post by T
Anyone have a favorite PCIe USB 3.1 card that actually
works right? Siig?
http://www.siig.com/it-products/usb/adapters/pcie/usb-3-1-2-port-pcie-host-adapter-type-a-c.html
But I can not tell which chipset it uses
Chipset: Asmedia ASM1142
Wonder if it works any better than the asmedia 2142?
http://www.siig.com/download/search/?keyword=JU-P20A12-S1
(when going to your link for the product page, I clicked on Downloads to
see what were available for this card.)
Windows 7 is not included. Why? SIIG does *not* provide a driver for
this card. They rely on the one included in Windows. However, as
mentioned in my reply to Paul, Windows 7 only supports up to USB 2.0.
Windows 7 does *NOT* natively support USB 3.x, so you cannot use this
card with Windows 7. you MUST install a driver in Windows 7 to add USB
3.x, and SIIG doesn't provide one for that card.
ASM1142
http://www.asmedia.com.tw/eng/e_show_products.php?item=158&cate_index=98
* Support driver on Windows 7, Windows 8, and Windows 8.1
* Support various Linux Kernels
ASM2142
http://www.asmedia.com.tw/eng/e_show_products.php?item=178&cate_index=175
* Support driver on Windows7, Windows8, Windows 8.1, and Windows 10
* Support various Linux kernels
Which implies that (somehow) the "flavor" of the 2142 isn't supported
by Windows 10 itself at the moment.
However, take these web page things with a grain of salt, because
I've seen promises of drivers before on a chip manufacturer site,
where in fact no such driver existed. Windows 7 is still in extended
support, but companies do whatever the hell they feel like most
of the time.
It's strange that Siig doesn't offer a driver. Some of
Siigs competitors are a bit better about this stuff.
I couldn't find drivers at Asmedia's web site, only at the SIIG site but
they don't offer one for this SIIG card. As you noted by Asmedia's
specs for that controller chip, Windows 7 is supported ... maybe. Be
interesting to see if T gets Intel's USB3 drivers to work under Windows
7 for that card.
T
2018-06-02 04:50:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by VanguardLH
Post by VanguardLH
Post by VanguardLH
Post by T
Post by T
Post by T
Anyone have a favorite PCIe USB 3.1 card that actually
works right? Siig?
http://www.siig.com/it-products/usb/adapters/pcie/usb-3-1-2-port-pcie-host-adapter-type-a-c.html
But I can not tell which chipset it uses
Chipset: Asmedia ASM1142
Wonder if it works any better than the asmedia 2142?
http://www.siig.com/download/search/?keyword=JU-P20A12-S1
(when going to your link for the product page, I clicked on Downloads to
see what were available for this card.)
Windows 7 is not included. Why? SIIG does *not* provide a driver for
this card. They rely on the one included in Windows. However, as
mentioned in my reply to Paul, Windows 7 only supports up to USB 2.0.
Windows 7 does *NOT* natively support USB 3.x, so you cannot use this
card with Windows 7. you MUST install a driver in Windows 7 to add USB
3.x, and SIIG doesn't provide one for that card.
ASM1142
http://www.asmedia.com.tw/eng/e_show_products.php?item=158&cate_index=98
* Support driver on Windows 7, Windows 8, and Windows 8.1
* Support various Linux Kernels
ASM2142
http://www.asmedia.com.tw/eng/e_show_products.php?item=178&cate_index=175
* Support driver on Windows7, Windows8, Windows 8.1, and Windows 10
* Support various Linux kernels
Which implies that (somehow) the "flavor" of the 2142 isn't supported
by Windows 10 itself at the moment.
However, take these web page things with a grain of salt, because
I've seen promises of drivers before on a chip manufacturer site,
where in fact no such driver existed. Windows 7 is still in extended
support, but companies do whatever the hell they feel like most
of the time.
It's strange that Siig doesn't offer a driver. Some of
Siigs competitors are a bit better about this stuff.
I couldn't find drivers at Asmedia's web site, only at the SIIG site but
they don't offer one for this SIIG card. As you noted by Asmedia's
specs for that controller chip, Windows 7 is supported ... maybe. Be
interesting to see if T gets Intel's USB3 drivers to work under Windows
7 for that card.
Crap! I am staring at the requirements:

Requirements

Desktop computer with one available PCIe slot 4x or larger
Windows® 10 (32-/64-bit) / 8.x (32-/64-bit)

If I don't get it to work out the box, I will have major egg on my face.

I hate when I come across an older system with only USB2 and the
customer need a fast backup system.
VanguardLH
2018-06-02 07:49:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Requirements
Desktop computer with one available PCIe slot 4x or larger
Windows® 10 (32-/64-bit) / 8.x (32-/64-bit)
If I don't get it to work out the box, I will have major egg on my face.
I hate when I come across an older system with only USB2 and the
customer need a fast backup system.
Does the mobo support eSATA (on which you could use a shielded SATA
cable)? Does the external drive's enclosure have both USB2/3 and eSATA
ports? If it has eSATA, go with that. You sure the external
USB-attached drive supports USB3? Else, you'd spend time and money
adding USB3 to the computer but the external drive can't use it.

USB2 is [theoretically] 480 Mbps. Does the customer's computer have a
NIC that can support 1 Gbps? If so, how about a NAS drive? Obviously
the customer cannot swamp their network with traffic due to the
collision detection and conflict handling of the Ethernet protocol. If
he downloads huge files from the Internet or passed them between his
intranet hosts, issues huge print jobs, or otherwises dumps on his
network then the NAS drive will get slower because its portion of the
remaining bandwidth gets smaller.

USB2 is 0.48 Gbps. NAS would be 1 Gbps. USB3 would be 5 Gbps. eSATA
would be 6 Gbps. What is an option and feasible depends on whether the
exiting USB2 external drive must continue being used or if different
external storage media is permitted.

Have you tried the Intel drivers (if the mobo has an Intel chipset) in
Windows 7 to see if you can get the Asmedia card to work properly?
Seems you were willing to try them with an unknown candidate replacement
card.
Char Jackson
2018-06-02 23:23:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by VanguardLH
USB2 is [theoretically] 480 Mbps. Does the customer's computer have a
NIC that can support 1 Gbps? If so, how about a NAS drive? Obviously
the customer cannot swamp their network with traffic due to the
collision detection and conflict handling of the Ethernet protocol. If
he downloads huge files from the Internet or passed them between his
intranet hosts, issues huge print jobs, or otherwises dumps on his
network then the NAS drive will get slower because its portion of the
remaining bandwidth gets smaller.
If there's a concern about bandwidth exhaustion, as described above, I'd
just install a second 1gig NIC. Even good ones are cheap these days.
Connect the new NIC directly to the NAS, effectively removing backup
traffic from the primary LAN. Any Ethernet cable is fine, no crossover
needed. If multiple computers need to be backed up using the 'backup
LAN', add a 2nd NIC to each of them and stick a Gig switch in the middle
to make the physical connections. Problem solved. Not explicitly stated,
but hopefully obvious, configure the 2nd NICs and the NAS to use a
subnet different from the primary LAN. No default gateway needed.
Post by VanguardLH
USB2 is 0.48 Gbps. NAS would be 1 Gbps. USB3 would be 5 Gbps. eSATA
would be 6 Gbps.
USB3.1 Type C has 10gig versions. I haven't seen a NAS that supports
that yet, but I haven't checked. They could be out there, at a price.
--
Char Jackson
Paul
2018-06-03 00:44:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Char Jackson
Post by VanguardLH
USB2 is [theoretically] 480 Mbps. Does the customer's computer have a
NIC that can support 1 Gbps? If so, how about a NAS drive? Obviously
the customer cannot swamp their network with traffic due to the
collision detection and conflict handling of the Ethernet protocol. If
he downloads huge files from the Internet or passed them between his
intranet hosts, issues huge print jobs, or otherwises dumps on his
network then the NAS drive will get slower because its portion of the
remaining bandwidth gets smaller.
If there's a concern about bandwidth exhaustion, as described above, I'd
just install a second 1gig NIC. Even good ones are cheap these days.
Connect the new NIC directly to the NAS, effectively removing backup
traffic from the primary LAN. Any Ethernet cable is fine, no crossover
needed. If multiple computers need to be backed up using the 'backup
LAN', add a 2nd NIC to each of them and stick a Gig switch in the middle
to make the physical connections. Problem solved. Not explicitly stated,
but hopefully obvious, configure the 2nd NICs and the NAS to use a
subnet different from the primary LAN. No default gateway needed.
Post by VanguardLH
USB2 is 0.48 Gbps. NAS would be 1 Gbps. USB3 would be 5 Gbps. eSATA
would be 6 Gbps.
USB3.1 Type C has 10gig versions. I haven't seen a NAS that supports
that yet, but I haven't checked. They could be out there, at a price.
There's Thunderbolt II at 20Gbit/sec. (Usual nonsense at the bottom
of the page, about some motherboard dependency. Intel is the
king of bundleware.)

https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboard-Accessory/ThunderboltEX_II/

There's also Thunderbolt III at 40gbit/sec. (This one uses a special
cable that looks like a USB2 or something. The cable doesn't look
especially high tech.) The I/O cable from one of these, can only
be a yard long or so. The previous one supports a longer cable.

https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboard-Accessory/ThunderboltEX-3/

Apparently, the higher the datarate, the more a "sacrifice of your
first born" is required to get it to work. And a comment I could
find from a mere user who tested both, is the EX_II one "works",
while the EX-3 one can "get into boot loops". There's a very specific
order for driver installation (driver is installed before you
fit the card). You can smell the "fresh baked tech from the lab"
on these things. Or is that "half-baked".

The Apple ecosystem should have some NAS entries with that
connector on it.

At this point, bog-standard USB3.0 at ~400MB/sec is looking
pretty good.

I checked my local computer store online, and their stock of
USB3.1 cards is zero. Must be a very popular seller. Or,
my last computer store is about to go out of business or
something. I don't understand how you can pretend to be
a "bricks and mortar", without any mortar. Won't the bricks
fall over if nothing holds them up ?

If they go under, I'll be left with "Best Buy" :-\ Yikes.

Paul
Char Jackson
2018-06-03 14:57:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul
Post by Char Jackson
Post by VanguardLH
USB2 is [theoretically] 480 Mbps. Does the customer's computer have a
NIC that can support 1 Gbps? If so, how about a NAS drive? Obviously
the customer cannot swamp their network with traffic due to the
collision detection and conflict handling of the Ethernet protocol. If
he downloads huge files from the Internet or passed them between his
intranet hosts, issues huge print jobs, or otherwises dumps on his
network then the NAS drive will get slower because its portion of the
remaining bandwidth gets smaller.
If there's a concern about bandwidth exhaustion, as described above, I'd
just install a second 1gig NIC. Even good ones are cheap these days.
Connect the new NIC directly to the NAS, effectively removing backup
traffic from the primary LAN. Any Ethernet cable is fine, no crossover
needed. If multiple computers need to be backed up using the 'backup
LAN', add a 2nd NIC to each of them and stick a Gig switch in the middle
to make the physical connections. Problem solved. Not explicitly stated,
but hopefully obvious, configure the 2nd NICs and the NAS to use a
subnet different from the primary LAN. No default gateway needed.
Post by VanguardLH
USB2 is 0.48 Gbps. NAS would be 1 Gbps. USB3 would be 5 Gbps. eSATA
would be 6 Gbps.
USB3.1 Type C has 10gig versions. I haven't seen a NAS that supports
that yet, but I haven't checked. They could be out there, at a price.
There's Thunderbolt II at 20Gbit/sec. (Usual nonsense at the bottom
of the page, about some motherboard dependency. Intel is the
king of bundleware.)
https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboard-Accessory/ThunderboltEX_II/
There's also Thunderbolt III at 40gbit/sec. (This one uses a special
cable that looks like a USB2 or something. The cable doesn't look
especially high tech.) The I/O cable from one of these, can only
be a yard long or so. The previous one supports a longer cable.
https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboard-Accessory/ThunderboltEX-3/
Apparently, the higher the datarate, the more a "sacrifice of your
first born" is required to get it to work. And a comment I could
find from a mere user who tested both, is the EX_II one "works",
while the EX-3 one can "get into boot loops". There's a very specific
order for driver installation (driver is installed before you
fit the card). You can smell the "fresh baked tech from the lab"
on these things. Or is that "half-baked".
The Apple ecosystem should have some NAS entries with that
connector on it.
At this point, bog-standard USB3.0 at ~400MB/sec is looking
pretty good.
I checked my local computer store online, and their stock of
USB3.1 cards is zero. Must be a very popular seller. Or,
my last computer store is about to go out of business or
something. I don't understand how you can pretend to be
a "bricks and mortar", without any mortar. Won't the bricks
fall over if nothing holds them up ?
If they go under, I'll be left with "Best Buy" :-\ Yikes.
The last bricks-and-mortar computer store that I visited was a
MicroCenter in about 2003/2004. After that, I did about 10 years
exclusively with Newegg, and since then I'm 90/10 with Amazon and
Newegg. We have Best Buy stores around here, the nearest about 10-15
minutes away, but I haven't been in there.

Amazon seems to know what they're doing. With Prime, I'd always select
2-day free shipping, and shipments would take the full two days because
they'd come from Memphis, Indianapolis, or Phoenix, in decreasing order.
Then Amazon built a warehouse about 4-5 miles from my house, as the crow
flies. So now 2-day free shipping usually arrives the next day, or if I
order before about 10AM most shipments arrive the same day. They even
deliver on Saturdays and Sundays. Returns are the easiest of any vendor,
as well. A couple of mouse clicks, print the return label, and put the
package outside for UPS to pick up.

Speaking of fast delivery, Amazon has their new 1-hour delivery option
available in my area, but I've never used it. They deliver to a special
locker at UPS stores and give you the combo so you can walk in, dial the
combo, grab your stuff, and leave. I have two of those delivery
locations within 15 minutes of the house. I suppose drone delivery will
be the next step. It's hard for B&M to compete, except as a product
showroom.
--
Char Jackson
VanguardLH
2018-06-03 21:33:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Char Jackson
The last bricks-and-mortar computer store that I visited was a
MicroCenter in about 2003/2004. After that, I did about 10 years
exclusively with Newegg, and since then I'm 90/10 with Amazon and
Newegg. We have Best Buy stores around here, the nearest about 10-15
minutes away, but I haven't been in there.
A big advantage of bricks-and-mortar stores is that you can actually see
and feel the products, like mice, keyboards, and monitors, to know what
they are really like. Specifications cannot not relay to your senses
just what the product is really like. I remember believing the specs on
a mousepad that was supposed to be super accurate but found it had much
higher friction which made moving the mouse around more difficult.
Specs won't tell you how well a mouse fits in the pit of your palm, or
the stiffness of keys on a keyboard. I/O devices are something personal
so seeing or feeling them can made a difference in your decision of
which to buy.

Alas, the bricks-and-mortar stores have a more limited inventory that
they keep in stock inside their stores. Sometimes even from them you
have to order from their online store. For example, no Home Depot
stores carry the Frigidaire window air conditioners but you can order
them from their online store (and for cheaper than Walmart on the model
that I wanted).
Post by Char Jackson
Amazon seems to know what they're doing. With Prime, ...
Prime requires a paid subscription: $13/month or $199/year. Uffdah!

https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Prime-One-Year-Membership/dp/B00DBYBNEE

Yes, Prime includes unlimited music streaming. Worthless to me as I
don't often listen to music. Don't need their unlimited online photo
storage, either. Google Drive and OneDrive as well as other sites are
free to store any filetype. I'm not sure how "free same-day delivery"
could be guaranteed except for those locations where they operation a
distribution warehouse and delivery is local to that warehouse.
Besides, I rarely need a product RIGHT NOW and if I did then I'd pay the
high-priced overnight delivery on a one-time basis instead of getting
suckered into a recurring monthly or yearly subscription.

I don't need to pay extra to get items from Newegg that list "free
shipping". I've found Amazon has far less sellers offering free
shipping. Sometimes I find Newegg doesn't carry something that Amazon
does so I'm forced to use Amazon - unless I can find it on eBay and with
free shipping from a reputable seller along with eBay's buyer protection
(which I have used a few times). I've found lots more eBay sellers
offering free shipping (just make sure they list a distribution location
in your country or one that doesn't have slow customs, like ordering
stuff from China to ship to the USA which results in a 45-day lag) than
at Amazon.

With eBay you expect sellers to be far flung in location. Users often
believe they are buying from Amazon or Newegg because that's where they
visit the "store". Both Amazon and Newegg (and other sites, like
Walmart) offer "storefronts" to 3rd party sellers. You have to be
careful from WHERE you buy if you want decent returns processing. At
Newegg, I elect the option to look at items only sold by Newegg. At
Walmart, I select them as the seller (unless they don't carry the item).
At Amazon, there is no filter or option to see items sold only by Amazon
(does Amazon actually sell anything themself?). At eBay, I select only
those sellers in my own country or from where I know shipping time is
short (no customs delay). At Amazon, no such filtering options: only
from Amazon, only in my country, only <whatever>. About all the
filtering you get at Amazon is new or used. I have an account at Amazon
and have ordered from there but only when the product cannot be obtained
from elsewhere for cheaper. Shipping cost usually precludes buying from
Amazon, especially for the small items.

One of the reasons that I order, say, keyboards through Walmart is I can
return it to any of their stores if I don't like it. I've had to go
through about 6 orders through Walmart to finally get a keyboard to my
liking. With Newegg or Amazon, the returned item has to get shipped
back. Didn't have to waste that time when I could go into a real store
and see and feel the products. I knew what I was getting instead of
relying on photos, specifications, and user reviews.

As for Best Buy, I end up using their online store a lot because they do
not carry all the same items in their physical stores. I can, however,
return back to the store, just as with Walmart and Home Depot, to get an
immediate refund. I like Newegg and have used Amazon (but definitely
won't be paying for their pricey Prime service) but I have to ship back
for a return.
Char Jackson
2018-06-04 15:41:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by VanguardLH
Post by Char Jackson
The last bricks-and-mortar computer store that I visited was a
MicroCenter in about 2003/2004. After that, I did about 10 years
exclusively with Newegg, and since then I'm 90/10 with Amazon and
Newegg. We have Best Buy stores around here, the nearest about 10-15
minutes away, but I haven't been in there.
A big advantage of bricks-and-mortar stores is that you can actually see
and feel the products, like mice, keyboards, and monitors, to know what
they are really like.
Yes, of course. I mentioned that in the post to which you responded.
Post by VanguardLH
Post by Char Jackson
Amazon seems to know what they're doing. With Prime, ...
Prime requires a paid subscription: $13/month or $199/year. Uffdah!
https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Prime-One-Year-Membership/dp/B00DBYBNEE
I assume $199 was a typo - the annual cost is going up to $119/year
(from $99/year), so the next time I renew it'll be at the higher price.
I wasn't trying to sell their Prime service to anyone. I was simply
pointing out that it makes financial sense for _me_. I hit the breakeven
point every year around month #4, month #5 at the latest. After that,
it's all free shipping and very fast delivery. I also use the Prime
Video service quite a bit, which makes a nice complement to Netflix
(which I don't pay for). I don't use the music service or the magazines
or the books.
Post by VanguardLH
Besides, I rarely need a product RIGHT NOW and if I did then I'd pay the
high-priced overnight delivery on a one-time basis instead of getting
suckered into a recurring monthly or yearly subscription.
Do the math to avoid getting suckered. Prime is an excellent deal for
me, but if you order infrequently it's almost certainly not a good deal
for you.
Post by VanguardLH
With eBay
eBay is my place of last resort. I've bought and sold on eBay, and more
often than not the experience has been disappointing in some way.
--
Char Jackson
Rene Lamontagne
2018-06-04 18:04:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Char Jackson
Post by VanguardLH
Post by Char Jackson
The last bricks-and-mortar computer store that I visited was a
MicroCenter in about 2003/2004. After that, I did about 10 years
exclusively with Newegg, and since then I'm 90/10 with Amazon and
Newegg. We have Best Buy stores around here, the nearest about 10-15
minutes away, but I haven't been in there.
A big advantage of bricks-and-mortar stores is that you can actually see
and feel the products, like mice, keyboards, and monitors, to know what
they are really like.
Yes, of course. I mentioned that in the post to which you responded.
Post by VanguardLH
Post by Char Jackson
Amazon seems to know what they're doing. With Prime, ...
Prime requires a paid subscription: $13/month or $199/year. Uffdah!
https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Prime-One-Year-Membership/dp/B00DBYBNEE
I assume $199 was a typo - the annual cost is going up to $119/year
(from $99/year), so the next time I renew it'll be at the higher price.
I wasn't trying to sell their Prime service to anyone. I was simply
pointing out that it makes financial sense for _me_. I hit the breakeven
point every year around month #4, month #5 at the latest. After that,
it's all free shipping and very fast delivery. I also use the Prime
Video service quite a bit, which makes a nice complement to Netflix
(which I don't pay for). I don't use the music service or the magazines
or the books.
Post by VanguardLH
Besides, I rarely need a product RIGHT NOW and if I did then I'd pay the
high-priced overnight delivery on a one-time basis instead of getting
suckered into a recurring monthly or yearly subscription.
Do the math to avoid getting suckered. Prime is an excellent deal for
me, but if you order infrequently it's almost certainly not a good deal
for you.
Post by VanguardLH
With eBay
eBay is my place of last resort. I've bought and sold on eBay, and more
often than not the experience has been disappointing in some way.
I found it strange that our Canadian Amazon price did not increase,
Thank goodness, still $79.00 I just renewed mine a couple weeks ago.
I use Amazon prime a lot as the big major stores are all moved to the
outskirts of the city and seeing I don't drive or own a vehicle and cab
fares are so expensive I tend to use Amazon Prime a lot.
No delivery costs and 2 day service are great, And I have never had to
return anything.
I don't use the music and movie things, just the shopping part.

Rene
Char Jackson
2018-06-04 21:16:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Rene Lamontagne
I found it strange that our Canadian Amazon price did not increase,
Thank goodness, still $79.00 I just renewed mine a couple weeks ago.
Hmm, how is that fair? :-)
Post by Rene Lamontagne
I use Amazon prime a lot as the big major stores are all moved to the
outskirts of the city and seeing I don't drive or own a vehicle and cab
fares are so expensive I tend to use Amazon Prime a lot.
No delivery costs and 2 day service are great, And I have never had to
return anything.
I don't use the music and movie things, just the shopping part.
Yep, it's great if you use it a lot, which you and I do. It would be
awful for someone who made a single order per year. :-)
--
Char Jackson
Rene Lamontagne
2018-06-04 23:22:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Rene Lamontagne
I found it strange that our Canadian Amazon price did not increase,
Thank goodness, still $79.00 I just renewed mine a couple weeks ago.
Hmm, how is that fair? :-)
Post by Rene Lamontagne
I use Amazon prime a lot as the big major stores are all moved to the
outskirts of the city and seeing I don't drive or own a vehicle and cab
fares are so expensive I tend to use Amazon Prime a lot.
No delivery costs and 2 day service are great, And I have never had to
return anything.
I don't use the music and movie things, just the shopping part.
Yep, it's great if you use it a lot, which you and I do. It would be
awful for someone who made a single order per year. :-)
Maybe they made a mistake on my renewal somehow, Usually we are about 20
percent or so higher than the USA, But I'll take it anyway. :-)

Rene
Paul
2018-06-04 23:36:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Rene Lamontagne
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Rene Lamontagne
I found it strange that our Canadian Amazon price did not increase,
Thank goodness, still $79.00 I just renewed mine a couple weeks ago.
Hmm, how is that fair? :-)
Post by Rene Lamontagne
I use Amazon prime a lot as the big major stores are all moved to the
outskirts of the city and seeing I don't drive or own a vehicle and cab
fares are so expensive I tend to use Amazon Prime a lot.
No delivery costs and 2 day service are great, And I have never had to
return anything.
I don't use the music and movie things, just the shopping part.
Yep, it's great if you use it a lot, which you and I do. It would be
awful for someone who made a single order per year. :-)
Maybe they made a mistake on my renewal somehow, Usually we are about 20
percent or so higher than the USA, But I'll take it anyway. :-)
Rene
"This means that if you have an Indian account for just Rs. 499,
you can still access the full US catalogue of Amazon Prime Video,
although the US Prime membership costs $99, or around Rs. 6700.

Right now, you can subscribe to Prime at just Rs. 499 per year;
the full price is supposed to be Rs. 999 per year, though it's
unclear when that comes into affect.
"

999/6700 * $99.00 = $14.76 per year

I think Bezos is using "math" to set the price in each
country, rather than "exchange rate". Some kind of
"what the market will bear" math.

Paul
Rene Lamontagne
2018-06-05 00:10:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul
Post by Rene Lamontagne
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Rene Lamontagne
I found it strange that our Canadian Amazon price did not increase,
Thank goodness, still $79.00 I just renewed mine a couple weeks ago.
Hmm, how is that fair? :-)
Post by Rene Lamontagne
I use Amazon prime a lot as the big major stores are all moved to the
outskirts of the city and seeing I don't drive or own a vehicle and cab
fares are so expensive I tend to use Amazon Prime a lot.
No delivery costs and 2 day service are great, And I have never had to
return anything.
I don't use the music and movie things, just the shopping part.
Yep, it's great if you use it a lot, which you and I do. It would be
awful for someone who made a single order per year. :-)
Maybe they made a mistake on my renewal somehow, Usually we are about
20 percent or so higher than the USA, But I'll take it anyway.  :-)
Rene
"This means that if you have an Indian account for just Rs. 499,
 you can still access the full US catalogue of Amazon Prime Video,
 although the US Prime membership costs $99, or around Rs. 6700.
 Right now, you can subscribe to Prime at just Rs. 499 per year;
 the full price is supposed to be Rs. 999 per year, though it's
 unclear when that comes into affect.
"
999/6700 * $99.00 = $14.76 per year
I think Bezos is using "math" to set the price in each
country, rather than "exchange rate". Some kind of
"what the market will bear" math.
   Paul
Could be, I thought it was very reasonable even though I don't use the
Video and music stuff. Im just greatful for the fast delivery and no
shipping costs on most items. :-)

Rene
T
2018-06-04 05:27:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul
Post by Char Jackson
USB2 is [theoretically] 480 Mbps.  Does the customer's computer have a
NIC that can support 1 Gbps?  If so, how about a NAS drive?  Obviously
the customer cannot swamp their network with traffic due to the
collision detection and conflict handling of the Ethernet protocol.  If
he downloads huge files from the Internet or passed them between his
intranet hosts, issues huge print jobs, or otherwises dumps on his
network then the NAS drive will get slower because its portion of the
remaining bandwidth gets smaller.
If there's a concern about bandwidth exhaustion, as described above, I'd
just install a second 1gig NIC. Even good ones are cheap these days.
Connect the new NIC directly to the NAS, effectively removing backup
traffic from the primary LAN. Any Ethernet cable is fine, no crossover
needed. If multiple computers need to be backed up using the 'backup
LAN', add a 2nd NIC to each of them and stick a Gig switch in the middle
to make the physical connections. Problem solved. Not explicitly stated,
but hopefully obvious, configure the 2nd NICs and the NAS to use a
subnet different from the primary LAN. No default gateway needed.
USB2 is 0.48 Gbps.  NAS would be 1 Gbps.  USB3 would be 5 Gbps.  eSATA
would be 6 Gbps.
USB3.1 Type C has 10gig versions. I haven't seen a NAS that supports
that yet, but I haven't checked. They could be out there, at a price.
There's Thunderbolt II at 20Gbit/sec. (Usual nonsense at the bottom
of the page, about some motherboard dependency. Intel is the
king of bundleware.)
https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboard-Accessory/ThunderboltEX_II/
There's also Thunderbolt III at 40gbit/sec. (This one uses a special
cable that looks like a USB2 or something. The cable doesn't look
especially high tech.) The I/O cable from one of these, can only
be a yard long or so. The previous one supports a longer cable.
https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboard-Accessory/ThunderboltEX-3/
Apparently, the higher the datarate, the more a "sacrifice of your
first born" is required to get it to work. And a comment I could
find from a mere user who tested both, is the EX_II one "works",
while the EX-3 one can "get into boot loops". There's a very specific
order for driver installation (driver is installed before you
fit the card). You can smell the "fresh baked tech from the lab"
on these things. Or is that "half-baked".
The Apple ecosystem should have some NAS entries with that
connector on it.
At this point, bog-standard USB3.0 at ~400MB/sec is looking
pretty good.
I checked my local computer store online, and their stock of
USB3.1 cards is zero. Must be a very popular seller. Or,
my last computer store is about to go out of business or
something. I don't understand how you can pretend to be
a "bricks and mortar", without any mortar. Won't the bricks
fall over if nothing holds them up ?
If they go under, I'll be left with "Best Buy" :-\ Yikes.
   Paul
He will be pulling data off a SATA II drive, so ...
Paul
2018-06-04 11:46:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
He will be pulling data off a SATA II drive, so ...
So a regular USB3 card is all that's necessary. You could use
a NEC/Renesas USB3.0 card then, no problem. Renesas made 2 port
and 4 port chips for add-in cards.

USB 3.0 = USB3.1 Rev1 = ~200MB/sec in PCI Express x1 REV1 slot
= ~400MB/sec in PCI Express x1 REV2 slot
= ~450MB/sec as a Southbridge (DMI) Intel port

USB 3.1 Rev2 = ~700MB/sec in PCI Express x2 REV2 slot (slot size x4)
~700MB/sec in PCI Express x1 REV3 slot (slot size x1)
= (faster as a native port on a Intel Southbridge perhaps)

USB 3.2 (just arrived) = (20Gbit/sec available on USB C in dual lane mode)
(as practical as chrome bumpers and white-wall tires
on a car, no peripheral in sight)

The first step, is a *slot survey* to see what resources
are available in the machine for expansion.

Chances are, a USB3.0 card for $25 is all that's needed.
And the customer can't really be disappointed if you
plug the card into a Rev.2 slot. If you have no choice
but to use a Rev.1 slot (such slots are all too common),
then an "eagle eyed" customer is going to see the
"spikes" near the beginning of a HDTune benchmark get
clipped off by the limited slot bandwidth. Whereas
a Rev.2 slot will satisfy at least some usage of
an SSD being plugged inside the drive enclosure.

Paul
T
2018-06-04 19:22:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul
Post by T
He will be pulling data off a SATA II drive, so ...
So a regular USB3 card is all that's necessary. You could use
a NEC/Renesas USB3.0 card then, no problem. Renesas made 2 port
and 4 port chips for add-in cards.
USB 3.0 = USB3.1 Rev1 = ~200MB/sec in PCI Express x1 REV1 slot
                      = ~400MB/sec in PCI Express x1 REV2 slot
                      = ~450MB/sec as a Southbridge (DMI) Intel port
USB 3.1 Rev2          = ~700MB/sec in PCI Express x2 REV2 slot (slot
size x4)
                        ~700MB/sec in PCI Express x1 REV3 slot (slot
size x1)
                      = (faster as a native port on a Intel Southbridge
perhaps)
USB 3.2 (just arrived)  = (20Gbit/sec available on USB C in dual lane mode)
                          (as practical as chrome bumpers and
white-wall tires
                           on a car, no peripheral in sight)
The first step, is a *slot survey* to see what resources
are available in the machine for expansion.
Chances are, a USB3.0 card for $25 is all that's needed.
And the customer can't really be disappointed if you
plug the card into a Rev.2 slot. If you have no choice
but to use a Rev.1 slot (such slots are all too common),
then an "eagle eyed" customer is going to see the
"spikes" near the beginning of a HDTune benchmark get
clipped off by the limited slot bandwidth. Whereas
a Rev.2 slot will satisfy at least some usage of
an SSD being plugged inside the drive enclosure.
   Paul
Except I have had bad experiences out the wazoo with NEC/Renesas
cards. Basically, you have to put them in and test them
and cross your fingers and hope not to look like an idiot
to the customer. Sometimes they work, some times they work
for "a while", sometimes the drives work but you have to
boot several times each time you power down, and other times
they don't. And when you FINALLY find a model that works
in a particular machine, it won't work anywhere else.
You typically look like an idiot.

I am to the point where I will recommend installing a second
internal hard drive or going with carbonite.
VanguardLH
2018-06-05 00:59:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
I am to the point where I will recommend installing a second
internal hard drive or going with carbonite.
How much data is getting transferred (for incremental, differential, or
full backups)? The customer might have great downstream bandwidth, like
250 Mbps, but upstream bandwidth might be horrible, like 12 Mbps. The
backgrounded upload to Carbonite could take so long that it stalls or
interferes with the next day's backup.

Also, these online backup services will throttle the downstream
bandwidth on a restore. It can take hours to retrieve an image over the
network from a throttled backup provider versus 10-30 minutes for a full
restore from local backup media.

I use OneDrive (and have used GoogleDrive) with their local clients to
store only [changed] data files up on the server. I use SyncBack Free
to copy only changed data (and only data) files to the local OneDrive
folder where it then gets uploaded in the background to the server (but
even that can take hours). I wouldn't use Carbonite or any online
backup or file service for anything but data files. The customer
doesn't want to sit around for hours on end waiting for a full image
restore to finish.

Perhaps Carbonite is different, especially since you are paying them
monthly, in not throttling their downstream bandwidth. Often the
provider never mentions downstream throttling, so users discover it for
themselves. For upstream, however, they're not going to send the files
any faster than the size of your upstream pipe. Does the customer have
synchronous or asynchronous upstream and downstream bandwidth? My
personal service tier with my ISP is 342 Mbps up and 12 Mbps down.

https://support.carbonite.com/articles/Server-Windows-How-Long-Does-it-Take-to-Back-Up-to-the-Cloud

For me, my data files from the OS+app partition (C:) are just under 1 GB
in total size. According to their chart (after selecting "enhanced 6")
and using their "fiber optic" row, the 1 GB upload would take about 15
minutes. 1000 megabytes * 8 bits/byte / 10 megabits/sec = 800 sec, or
13.3 minutes. Not too bad if you don't have much data to upload. 1 GB
is just the data files on my C: drive. Most of my data (186 GB) is in a
separate partition on a physically different drive (D:). At 12 Mbps, it
would take 34 hours to upload. That's longer to upload than the 24-hour
interval for my data-only scheduled backup. No, I don't upload 186 GB
to the file server. I use local media for that backup.

What's the total size of the data files that your customer will be
uploading to Carbonite (or any other file server)? What is the
customer's upload bandwidth?

A full image backup of my C: drive is shy of 20 GB (Macrium Reflect
Free). Moving the data files to D: is what keeps my C: images to a much
smaller size. https://techinternets.com/copy_calc?do takes in the type
of connection to the host along with overhead from other data in the
packets, and they say my 20 GB over 1 GBps-capable Ethernet LAN pipped
into a 10 Mbps upstream bandwidth would take 5 hours to upload -- during
which my computer must remained powered so the local client can send the
backup file to the server.

How big would be their backup image sent to Carbonite?
Does your customer leave their computer powered up all the time?
When they visit Speedtest.net, what is their upstream bandwidth?
Will backupTime + uploadTime be less than scheduledBackupInterval?

Is data the only filetype the customer wants to save online? Online
backup services are only feasible for small data-only backups unless the
customer has a huge upstream bandwidth. If not throttled at the server,
getting the backup image to do a restore won't be intolerable. The 20
GB full image backup for my C: drive downloaded at 340 Mbps - if
sustained - would take 8 minutes (and then add the time to actually
write 20 GB to the partition). However, often upstream bandwidth is
horrible, especially when compared to downstream bandwidth. That same
20 GB full backup image uploaded at 12 Mbps - if sustained - would take
about 4 hours. Not bad if done in the background but at a lower
priority (to prevent impacting other programs) and reduced bandwidth for
the client (so I could still use other clients to access the Internet)
means the upload would take even longer.

Use Carbonite only for data files, and be selective what data files will
be included and which are disposable or can be reproduced to eliminate
from the data-only backup.
Char Jackson
2018-06-05 15:06:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by VanguardLH
Does the customer have
synchronous or asynchronous upstream and downstream bandwidth? My
personal service tier with my ISP is 342 Mbps up and 12 Mbps down.
Your autocorrect let you down. It should have given you symmetrical and
asymmetrical rather than synchronous and asynchronous.
--
Char Jackson
VanguardLH
2018-06-06 04:59:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Char Jackson
Does the customer have synchronous or asynchronous upstream and
downstream bandwidth? My personal service tier with my ISP is 342
Mbps up and 12 Mbps down.
Your autocorrect let you down. It should have given you symmetrical
and asymmetrical rather than synchronous and asynchronous.
Oops. Need more coffee.
T
2018-06-09 00:20:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by VanguardLH
Post by T
I am to the point where I will recommend installing a second
internal hard drive or going with carbonite.
How much data is getting transferred (for incremental, differential, or
full backups)? The customer might have great downstream bandwidth, like
250 Mbps, but upstream bandwidth might be horrible, like 12 Mbps. The
backgrounded upload to Carbonite could take so long that it stalls or
interferes with the next day's backup.
Also, these online backup services will throttle the downstream
bandwidth on a restore. It can take hours to retrieve an image over the
network from a throttled backup provider versus 10-30 minutes for a full
restore from local backup media.
I use OneDrive (and have used GoogleDrive) with their local clients to
store only [changed] data files up on the server. I use SyncBack Free
to copy only changed data (and only data) files to the local OneDrive
folder where it then gets uploaded in the background to the server (but
even that can take hours). I wouldn't use Carbonite or any online
backup or file service for anything but data files. The customer
doesn't want to sit around for hours on end waiting for a full image
restore to finish.
Perhaps Carbonite is different, especially since you are paying them
monthly, in not throttling their downstream bandwidth. Often the
provider never mentions downstream throttling, so users discover it for
themselves. For upstream, however, they're not going to send the files
any faster than the size of your upstream pipe. Does the customer have
synchronous or asynchronous upstream and downstream bandwidth? My
personal service tier with my ISP is 342 Mbps up and 12 Mbps down.
https://support.carbonite.com/articles/Server-Windows-How-Long-Does-it-Take-to-Back-Up-to-the-Cloud
For me, my data files from the OS+app partition (C:) are just under 1 GB
in total size. According to their chart (after selecting "enhanced 6")
and using their "fiber optic" row, the 1 GB upload would take about 15
minutes. 1000 megabytes * 8 bits/byte / 10 megabits/sec = 800 sec, or
13.3 minutes. Not too bad if you don't have much data to upload. 1 GB
is just the data files on my C: drive. Most of my data (186 GB) is in a
separate partition on a physically different drive (D:). At 12 Mbps, it
would take 34 hours to upload. That's longer to upload than the 24-hour
interval for my data-only scheduled backup. No, I don't upload 186 GB
to the file server. I use local media for that backup.
What's the total size of the data files that your customer will be
uploading to Carbonite (or any other file server)? What is the
customer's upload bandwidth?
A full image backup of my C: drive is shy of 20 GB (Macrium Reflect
Free). Moving the data files to D: is what keeps my C: images to a much
smaller size. https://techinternets.com/copy_calc?do takes in the type
of connection to the host along with overhead from other data in the
packets, and they say my 20 GB over 1 GBps-capable Ethernet LAN pipped
into a 10 Mbps upstream bandwidth would take 5 hours to upload -- during
which my computer must remained powered so the local client can send the
backup file to the server.
How big would be their backup image sent to Carbonite?
Does your customer leave their computer powered up all the time?
When they visit Speedtest.net, what is their upstream bandwidth?
Will backupTime + uploadTime be less than scheduledBackupInterval?
Is data the only filetype the customer wants to save online? Online
backup services are only feasible for small data-only backups unless the
customer has a huge upstream bandwidth. If not throttled at the server,
getting the backup image to do a restore won't be intolerable. The 20
GB full image backup for my C: drive downloaded at 340 Mbps - if
sustained - would take 8 minutes (and then add the time to actually
write 20 GB to the partition). However, often upstream bandwidth is
horrible, especially when compared to downstream bandwidth. That same
20 GB full backup image uploaded at 12 Mbps - if sustained - would take
about 4 hours. Not bad if done in the background but at a lower
priority (to prevent impacting other programs) and reduced bandwidth for
the client (so I could still use other clients to access the Internet)
means the upload would take even longer.
Use Carbonite only for data files, and be selective what data files will
be included and which are disposable or can be reproduced to eliminate
from the data-only backup.
about 80 GB per backup.

I found an esata solution I like
Paul
2018-06-09 01:04:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
about 80 GB per backup.
I found an esata solution I like
I re-ran some test cases here (as I couldn't
find my old results file).

The test was an ASM2115 enclosure with a 512GB SSD connected.

This is a NEC/Renesas dual port addon USB3.0 card. Tried
in two different slots

WinXP PCIe x1 Rev1 151 MB/sec (out of 250 max)
WinXP PCIe x1 Rev2 240 MB/sec (out of 500 max)

And this is the Test Machine, using as AsMedia addon
already on the motherboard. The speed is close to the
same as the previous test.

237 MB/sec (Win7 X79 addon USB3.0 port, PCIe Rev2 connected)

Something interesting happened, when I tested
an ASM2142 USB 3.1 Rev2 10Gbit/sec under Windows 10.
The card was plugged into a Rev.3 video slot.

ASM2142 in x1 Rev3 250 MB/sec HDTune result. For some reason,
the old free version of HDTune 2.55 cannot
properly test this.

ASM2142 in x1 Rev3 354 MB/sec (using ASM2115 and 512GB SSD))
Used 7ZIP CRC32 file check as test
stimulus, got faster transfers

SSD SATAIII test 400 MB/sec (Win7 X79 SATAIII port)

So that gives some idea what a run-of-the-mill
setup gives. The 354MB/sec result appears to be
using UASP, as that entry is in the Storage Controllers
section of Device Manager.

Compared to a commodity 4TB 200MB/sec HDD, only
the first result sucks. The combination of a PCI Express
x1 Rev1 port and USB3 doesn't quite match a good hard drive.

They do make an M.2 enclosure for USB3.1 Rev2, and that
can go just a wee bit faster. But I don't own an M.2
or an enclosure like that, so I won't be testing that.

Paul
T
2018-06-09 01:36:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul
They do make an M.2 enclosure for USB3.1 Rev2, and that
can go just a wee bit faster
You wouldn't happen to have a link?

I have been scratching my head trying to figure out how to
clone an NVMe drive when the motherboard only supports
on drive.
Paul
2018-06-09 01:58:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Post by Paul
They do make an M.2 enclosure for USB3.1 Rev2, and that
can go just a wee bit faster
You wouldn't happen to have a link?
I have been scratching my head trying to figure out how to
clone an NVMe drive when the motherboard only supports
on drive.
It looks like it is B keyed, rather than M keyed.
It expects to run in SATA mode. A device that works
NVMe only, probably won't fit (keying).

https://www.amazon.ca/StarTech-com-M-2-SATA-SSD-Enclosure/dp/B00T8F298Y

It would probably be quicker to just look through the
Asmedia chip specs page and see if they make an NVMe one,
than slog through the customer reviews for each of these
things.

Paul
T
2018-06-09 03:10:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul
Post by T
Post by Paul
They do make an M.2 enclosure for USB3.1 Rev2, and that
can go just a wee bit faster
You wouldn't happen to have a link?
I have been scratching my head trying to figure out how to
clone an NVMe drive when the motherboard only supports
on  drive.
It looks like it is B keyed, rather than M keyed.
It expects to run in SATA mode. A device that works
NVMe only, probably won't fit (keying).
https://www.amazon.ca/StarTech-com-M-2-SATA-SSD-Enclosure/dp/B00T8F298Y
It would probably be quicker to just look through the
Asmedia chip specs page and see if they make an NVMe one,
than slog through the customer reviews for each of these
things.
   Paul
Rats! Thank you anyway.
Paul
2018-06-09 04:11:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Post by Paul
Post by T
Post by Paul
They do make an M.2 enclosure for USB3.1 Rev2, and that
can go just a wee bit faster
You wouldn't happen to have a link?
I have been scratching my head trying to figure out how to
clone an NVMe drive when the motherboard only supports
on drive.
It looks like it is B keyed, rather than M keyed.
It expects to run in SATA mode. A device that works
NVMe only, probably won't fit (keying).
https://www.amazon.ca/StarTech-com-M-2-SATA-SSD-Enclosure/dp/B00T8F298Y
It would probably be quicker to just look through the
Asmedia chip specs page and see if they make an NVMe one,
than slog through the customer reviews for each of these
things.
Paul
Rats! Thank you anyway.
There's one here, but with so little tech info, I couldn't
buy that, even as an impulse buy. It only lists compatibility
with XP941 and no other drive. Even if I could get a sniff
of the chip used, I could figure out whether it's a "trick" or
a legit converter. Most of the other products eventually admit
they need B-key.

http://eshop.sintech.cn/m2-ngff-pcie-ssd-to-usb-30-adapter-with-case-p-1067.html

Even if that had customer reviews, it would be better than nothing.

And while I could find a reference to "converting M.2 to U.2", there
is no U.2 to USB3 adapter either.

Paul
T
2018-06-09 04:24:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul
Post by Paul
Post by T
Post by Paul
They do make an M.2 enclosure for USB3.1 Rev2, and that
can go just a wee bit faster
You wouldn't happen to have a link?
I have been scratching my head trying to figure out how to
clone an NVMe drive when the motherboard only supports
on  drive.
It looks like it is B keyed, rather than M keyed.
It expects to run in SATA mode. A device that works
NVMe only, probably won't fit (keying).
https://www.amazon.ca/StarTech-com-M-2-SATA-SSD-Enclosure/dp/B00T8F298Y
It would probably be quicker to just look through the
Asmedia chip specs page and see if they make an NVMe one,
than slog through the customer reviews for each of these
things.
    Paul
Rats!  Thank you anyway.
There's one here, but with so little tech info, I couldn't
buy that, even as an impulse buy. It only lists compatibility
with XP941 and no other drive. Even if I could get a sniff
of the chip used, I could figure out whether it's a "trick" or
a legit converter. Most of the other products eventually admit
they need B-key.
http://eshop.sintech.cn/m2-ngff-pcie-ssd-to-usb-30-adapter-with-case-p-1067.html
Even if that had customer reviews, it would be better than nothing.
And while I could find a reference to "converting M.2 to U.2", there
is no U.2 to USB3 adapter either.
   Paul
I eMailed them asking if it worked with an NVMe drive. I will
get back.
Paul
2018-06-14 04:37:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Post by Paul
Post by T
Post by Paul
Post by T
Post by Paul
They do make an M.2 enclosure for USB3.1 Rev2, and that
can go just a wee bit faster
You wouldn't happen to have a link?
I have been scratching my head trying to figure out how to
clone an NVMe drive when the motherboard only supports
on drive.
It looks like it is B keyed, rather than M keyed.
It expects to run in SATA mode. A device that works
NVMe only, probably won't fit (keying).
https://www.amazon.ca/StarTech-com-M-2-SATA-SSD-Enclosure/dp/B00T8F298Y
It would probably be quicker to just look through the
Asmedia chip specs page and see if they make an NVMe one,
than slog through the customer reviews for each of these
things.
Paul
Rats! Thank you anyway.
There's one here, but with so little tech info, I couldn't
buy that, even as an impulse buy. It only lists compatibility
with XP941 and no other drive. Even if I could get a sniff
of the chip used, I could figure out whether it's a "trick" or
a legit converter. Most of the other products eventually admit
they need B-key.
http://eshop.sintech.cn/m2-ngff-pcie-ssd-to-usb-30-adapter-with-case-p-1067.html
Even if that had customer reviews, it would be better than nothing.
And while I could find a reference to "converting M.2 to U.2", there
is no U.2 to USB3 adapter either.
Paul
I eMailed them asking if it worked with an NVMe drive. I will
get back.
Hot off the presses.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/jmicron-usb-to-nvme-ssd,37264.html

It's shown demonstrating 1GB/sec over USB3.1.

Toms will apparently be doing a review of it
at some point.

JMicron has spun off a company called Maxio Technology
or similar, and it's hard to say which company that
item comes from. Maybe if Toms has a close-up picture
of the PCB, the logo will be visible.

JMicron was the company that made a few SSD controllers
that used to "stutter". And that kinda ruined their
good name. That's why the details of the review
will be important, to see if they learned any lessons.

I only discovered a reference to that item, when
Googling on Maxio Technology to find out more about
the company, and just how much of a rebranding
exercise it was.

*******

I saw another curiosity yesterday. I was looking
to see if a Laplink cable is available for USB3.
That would be a USB3 cable with a "blob" in the
center, for transferring files directly between
two PCs.

It turns out Prolific makes a chip for that. The
chip has firmware supporting four protocol
variations. The one using WinUSB protocol
seems to be the popular one, and Linux has
a driver too.

The Laplink concept is a simple one. First, it
violates USB premises, by connecting two hosts
directly to one another. (Also violates the
grounding strategy - both PCs should be on the
same power strip, if they're desktops. A laptop
likely floats and wouldn't be an issue.)

The Laplink idea uses two FIFO queues, one in
the transmit direction, one in the receive
direction. One side pushes, the other pulls.
Each side thinks it is talking to a Peripheral,
rather than a host. The FIFO queues help hide
the details.

The USB3 version transfers at around 50MB/sec or less.

It turns out, the chip has a low end 8 bit
microprocessor inside. For what reason, I don't
know. I sure hope it isn't in the datapath...

In any case, it exists. But it isn't clear
whether it belongs in your "cable bag".

Paul

T
2018-06-04 05:27:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by VanguardLH
Does the mobo support eSATA
one port

problem with eSata. Windows does not have the cool tools for mount,
unmount, and eject as does Linux. So, the customer has to plug
it in and leave it. eSata ain't portable under Windows. Sure
there are utilities for that, but they suck.
Post by VanguardLH
Does the external drive's enclosure have both USB2/3 and eSATA
ports? If it has eSATA, go with that.
I can get one from the g-tech legacy store
Post by VanguardLH
USB2 is [theoretically] 480 Mbps.
I my experience, USB2 is so slow the customer will back up
once and never do it again.
Post by VanguardLH
Does the customer's computer have a
NIC that can support 1 Gbps?
100 Base-T only
Post by VanguardLH
If so, how about a NAS drive?
Good in theory. Haven't found a NAS I have thought wasn't
cheap s***. You have a good one?
Post by VanguardLH
Have you tried the Intel drivers (if the mobo has an Intel chipset) in
Windows 7 to see if you can get the Asmedia card to work properly?
Asmedia is not an Intel product, so I am probably wrong
about using the Intel drivers.

I was a ticket in with Siig over the matter
Paul
2018-06-04 12:47:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Post by VanguardLH
Does the mobo support eSATA
one port
problem with eSata. Windows does not have the cool tools for mount,
unmount, and eject as does Linux. So, the customer has to plug
it in and leave it. eSata ain't portable under Windows. Sure
there are utilities for that, but they suck.
Wrong, wrong, and wrong. What were you thinking Obi-Wan ?
How can you have an ESATA connector on the back of a
computer, without Eject capability ? It was designed
for easy Plug/Unplug. The OS *has* to support that.
We can't have people running around ripping off
connectors, without some mechanism to do it safely.

Windows supports Hot Plug for ESATA and even for regular SATA.
In fact, it will even pretend you can eject C: but it
won't actually let you do that because (like Unix/Linux)
"the volume is busy" :-) These features were first
exposed when Hot Plug SATA first came out, and Microsoft
has had to clean up the UI a bit over the years, so as to
avoid scaring people. (People *hated* seeing SATA drives
offered for ejection... Especially seeing C: in the list.)

On any decent motherboard in a tower, look for an enable/disable
for Hot Plug in the BIOS. That can gate off availability.
You'll need to turn it on there first.

If you're serious about using a SATA dock for the customer (say),
there are articles on making this more convenient. You could
probably get a 5.25" tray that allows SATA tray operation, then
run a SATA cable from the back of that to the motherboard SATA
area. A superior tray for a tower, uses gentle lever mechanisms
for pulling the drive, as doing Hot Plug runs the risk
of mechanical damage if the spindle is still spinning.

https://superuser.com/questions/817226/sata-hot-plug-has-no-effect-in-windows

Use the small utility HotSwap!.

http://mt-naka.com/hotswap/index_enu.htm

"About HotSwap!

This software is developed based on the information Knowledge Base
Article #10744 - SATA: Hot Plugging Drives under Win2000/XP
(Internet Archive) provided by Silicon Image.

It does the same thing as you can remove device from Device Manager
but it provides much friendly user interface as you remove the
removable device from the "Safely Remove Hardware" icon in the
notification area. It also ensures that all data are written
and flushed to the disk before the device to be hot-swapped,
so you can use SATA/eSATA drive as a removable device much
alike USB/IEEE1394 drive.
"

That's the part I can't vouch for on Windows, is nicely
reproducible "parking" of hardware. For example, my
newest machine, if I "Safely Remove" a USB enclosure
with an SSD inside, the SSD keeps counting "dirty shutdowns"
implying for some reason it hasn't been put in a safe
state inside the enclosure. This is why it's generally
a good idea to buy enclosures with a USB LED that indicates
the quiescent state, before unplugging. Not all Windows
OSes seem to do this properly. (I can count on WinXP to
do it right!)

One of the hints in the SuperUser article, is to use Disk Management
to put a disk in the Offline state, to "encourage" a non-busy
hardware state. I've even had one report from someone who had
to do this for a *USB* drive - they can't safely remove a USB
HDD enclosure connection, without putting the drive "offline"
in Disk Management.

If you find a setup requires the "offline" trick, don't forget
that later when plugged back in, you have to set it "online"
again, because the system remembers the state across reboots.

My recommendation ? Play with it a bit more.

A "best" kind of design, would allow Safely Remove from
Windows, then, a power switch on the enclosure, so that
you can be absolutely certain the spindle is stopped
and the heads parked before moving it.

One of the reasons I don't like "toaster docks", is
because of the possibility of handling things while
they're still actually spinning. You want to test and
*make sure* (put ear to hard drive) that the software
is actually putting the drive in the desired state.
There's no point having a fancy "eject" setup, if you're
damaging the hardware doing it. Test test test... before
giving to a customer!

States:

1) Fully working.
2) Change drive to "Offline", which dismounts all partitions.
(There may be other ways to do a dismount besides that.)
3) Try safely remove, using some means.

4) Verify the damn spindle is stopping properly. Not
all hardware combinations seem to be handling this
properly (the proof being my SSD is reporting
"emergency power" events). You must *test* this is
working, before release to an actual customer.
If SMART reports more and more "emergency power"
type events, something isn't right, and you shouldn't
leave things in that miserable state. It could damage
something, if it was "for real".

Better than nothing, is a power switch you can use,
to switch off the power after (3), so at least any
rotating HDDs will be parked (even if it's
counted as an "emergency power" event). On consumer
SSDs, emergency power events counted are *not* a good thing.
Consumer SSDs don't have a supercap, and we don't
know how well they handle power events.
You could (eventually) brick the SSD drive.

5) Unplug "cold" drive and walk away with it.

You could do most of this testing on your home
setup (match the customer OS!!!), but I would
suggest verifying (4) onsite. Don't do a sloppy job.
I wouldn't have to offer warnings about (4), except
for the mixed results I'm seeing here. The results
don't inspire confidence, and could be due to the
enclosure chip design or firmware on my setup.

I did have SATA Hot Plug set up once here, but it's
not something I leave setup or enabled. I at
least proved it worked.

The first discovery of Hot Plug that I remember,
was by a USENET participant. He was relating how
he broke the SATA connector on a hard drive :-\
"And when he would hold up the SATA connector
against the hard drive stub, he could see his data
and get his files off." He transferred all the files
off the hard drive, by holding the connector against
it. That was the first case of accidentally
noticing that Silicon Image had put Hot Plug
support in their driver, before Windows did.
It was pretty funny at the time. At the time,
we wouldn't have predicted that would happen
(no one would have suggested just holding
the connector against it like that).

Paul
T
2018-06-04 19:15:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul
Post by T
Post by VanguardLH
Does the mobo support eSATA
one port
problem with eSata.  Windows does not have the cool tools for mount,
unmount, and eject as does Linux.  So, the customer has to plug
it in and leave it.  eSata ain't portable under Windows.  Sure
there are utilities for that, but they suck.
Wrong, wrong, and wrong. What were you thinking Obi-Wan ?
How can you have an ESATA connector on the back of a
computer, without Eject capability ? It was designed
for easy Plug/Unplug. The OS *has* to support that.
We can't have people running around ripping off
connectors, without some mechanism to do it safely.
Windows supports Hot Plug for ESATA and even for regular SATA.
In fact, it will even pretend you can eject C: but it
won't actually let you do that because (like Unix/Linux)
"the volume is busy" :-) These features were first
exposed when Hot Plug SATA first came out, and Microsoft
has had to clean up the UI a bit over the years, so as to
avoid scaring people. (People *hated* seeing SATA drives
offered for ejection... Especially seeing C: in the list.)
On any decent motherboard in a tower, look for an enable/disable
for Hot Plug in the BIOS. That can gate off availability.
You'll need to turn it on there first.
If you're serious about using a SATA dock for the customer (say),
there are articles on making this more convenient. You could
probably get a 5.25" tray that allows SATA tray operation, then
run a SATA cable from the back of that to the motherboard SATA
area. A superior tray for a tower, uses gentle lever mechanisms
for pulling the drive, as doing Hot Plug runs the risk
of mechanical damage if the spindle is still spinning.
https://superuser.com/questions/817226/sata-hot-plug-has-no-effect-in-windows
   Use the small utility HotSwap!.
   http://mt-naka.com/hotswap/index_enu.htm
     "About HotSwap!
      This software is developed based on the information Knowledge Base
      Article #10744 - SATA: Hot Plugging Drives under Win2000/XP
      (Internet Archive) provided by Silicon Image.
      It does the same thing as you can remove device from Device Manager
      but it provides much friendly user interface as you remove the
      removable device from the "Safely Remove Hardware" icon in the
      notification area. It also ensures that all data are written
      and flushed to the disk before the device to be hot-swapped,
      so you can use SATA/eSATA drive as a removable device much
      alike USB/IEEE1394 drive.
     "
That's the part I can't vouch for on Windows, is nicely
reproducible "parking" of hardware. For example, my
newest machine, if I "Safely Remove" a USB enclosure
with an SSD inside, the SSD keeps counting "dirty shutdowns"
implying for some reason it hasn't been put in a safe
state inside the enclosure. This is why it's generally
a good idea to buy enclosures with a USB LED that indicates
the quiescent state, before unplugging. Not all Windows
OSes seem to do this properly. (I can count on WinXP to
do it right!)
One of the hints in the SuperUser article, is to use Disk Management
to put a disk in the Offline state, to "encourage" a non-busy
hardware state. I've even had one report from someone who had
to do this for a *USB* drive - they can't safely remove a USB
HDD enclosure connection, without putting the drive "offline"
in Disk Management.
If you find a setup requires the "offline" trick, don't forget
that later when plugged back in, you have to set it "online"
again, because the system remembers the state across reboots.
My recommendation ? Play with it a bit more.
A "best" kind of design, would allow Safely Remove from
Windows, then, a power switch on the enclosure, so that
you can be absolutely certain the spindle is stopped
and the heads parked before moving it.
One of the reasons I don't like "toaster docks", is
because of the possibility of handling things while
they're still actually spinning. You want to test and
*make sure* (put ear to hard drive) that the software
is actually putting the drive in the desired state.
There's no point having a fancy "eject" setup, if you're
damaging the hardware doing it. Test test test... before
giving to a customer!
1) Fully working.
2) Change drive to "Offline", which dismounts all partitions.
   (There may be other ways to do a dismount besides that.)
3) Try safely remove, using some means.
4) Verify the damn spindle is stopping properly. Not
   all hardware combinations seem to be handling this
   properly (the proof being my SSD is reporting
   "emergency power" events). You must *test* this is
   working, before release to an actual customer.
   If SMART reports more and more "emergency power"
   type events, something isn't right, and you shouldn't
   leave things in that miserable state. It could damage
   something, if it was "for real".
   Better than nothing, is a power switch you can use,
   to switch off the power after (3), so at least any
   rotating HDDs will be parked (even if it's
   counted as an "emergency power" event). On consumer
   SSDs, emergency power events counted are *not* a good thing.
   Consumer SSDs don't have a supercap, and we don't
   know how well they handle power events.
   You could (eventually) brick the SSD drive.
5) Unplug "cold" drive and walk away with it.
You could do most of this testing on your home
setup (match the customer OS!!!), but I would
suggest verifying (4) onsite. Don't do a sloppy job.
I wouldn't have to offer warnings about (4), except
for the mixed results I'm seeing here. The results
don't inspire confidence, and could be due to the
enclosure chip design or firmware on my setup.
I did have SATA Hot Plug set up once here, but it's
not something I leave setup or enabled. I at
least proved it worked.
The first discovery of Hot Plug that I remember,
was by a USENET participant. He was relating how
he broke the SATA connector on a hard drive :-\
"And when he would hold up the SATA connector
against the hard drive stub, he could see his data
and get his files off." He transferred all the files
off the hard drive, by holding the connector against
it. That was the first case of accidentally
noticing that Silicon Image had put Hot Plug
support in their driver, before Windows did.
It was pretty funny at the time. At the time,
we wouldn't have predicted that would happen
(no one would have suggested just holding
the connector against it like that).
   Paul
Kinda, sorta, suppose to. Windows and hot plug, Oh Boy.
Doesn't matter if the hardware is designed for it or not.
Paul
2018-06-02 05:06:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by VanguardLH
Post by VanguardLH
Post by VanguardLH
Post by T
Post by T
Post by T
Anyone have a favorite PCIe USB 3.1 card that actually
works right? Siig?
http://www.siig.com/it-products/usb/adapters/pcie/usb-3-1-2-port-pcie-host-adapter-type-a-c.html
But I can not tell which chipset it uses
Chipset: Asmedia ASM1142
Wonder if it works any better than the asmedia 2142?
http://www.siig.com/download/search/?keyword=JU-P20A12-S1
(when going to your link for the product page, I clicked on Downloads to
see what were available for this card.)
Windows 7 is not included. Why? SIIG does *not* provide a driver for
this card. They rely on the one included in Windows. However, as
mentioned in my reply to Paul, Windows 7 only supports up to USB 2.0.
Windows 7 does *NOT* natively support USB 3.x, so you cannot use this
card with Windows 7. you MUST install a driver in Windows 7 to add USB
3.x, and SIIG doesn't provide one for that card.
ASM1142
http://www.asmedia.com.tw/eng/e_show_products.php?item=158&cate_index=98
* Support driver on Windows 7, Windows 8, and Windows 8.1
* Support various Linux Kernels
ASM2142
http://www.asmedia.com.tw/eng/e_show_products.php?item=178&cate_index=175
* Support driver on Windows7, Windows8, Windows 8.1, and Windows 10
* Support various Linux kernels
Which implies that (somehow) the "flavor" of the 2142 isn't supported
by Windows 10 itself at the moment.
However, take these web page things with a grain of salt, because
I've seen promises of drivers before on a chip manufacturer site,
where in fact no such driver existed. Windows 7 is still in extended
support, but companies do whatever the hell they feel like most
of the time.
It's strange that Siig doesn't offer a driver. Some of
Siigs competitors are a bit better about this stuff.
I couldn't find drivers at Asmedia's web site, only at the SIIG site but
they don't offer one for this SIIG card. As you noted by Asmedia's
specs for that controller chip, Windows 7 is supported ... maybe. Be
interesting to see if T gets Intel's USB3 drivers to work under Windows
7 for that card.
It almost looks like there is a different stack at work
when working with one of those chips (3.1) ?

https://plugable.com/2015/03/05/windows-8-1-and-the-asmedia-usb-3-1-xhci-1-1-host-controller/

SYSTEM_SERVICE_EXCEPTION (asmtxhci.sys)

Looks like a good solid mature technology.

Paul
T
2018-06-02 05:05:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Hi All,
Stay away from the Star Tech PEXUSB311AC2
    StarTech.com Dual Port USB 3.1 Card – 1x USB-C – 1x
    USB-A – 10Gbps per port – Expansion Card – USB 3.1 PCI-E
    Card – USB 3 PCI
It crashes your file system on large file transfers and crashes your
boot if anything is plugged into it when you boot.
Anyone have a favorite PCIe USB 3.1 card that actually
works right?  Siig?
Many thanks,
-T
Also looking at:
https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboard-Accessory/USB_31_TYPEA_CARD/specifications/

It says Windows 7 support, but it has not axillary power connector,
so don't attempt to use anything that draws power.

What the hell...
T
2018-06-02 05:12:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Hi All,
Stay away from the Star Tech PEXUSB311AC2
    StarTech.com Dual Port USB 3.1 Card – 1x USB-C – 1x
    USB-A – 10Gbps per port – Expansion Card – USB 3.1 PCI-E
    Card – USB 3 PCI
It crashes your file system on large file transfers and crashes your
boot if anything is plugged into it when you boot.
Anyone have a favorite PCIe USB 3.1 card that actually
works right?  Siig?
Many thanks,
-T
If I move down to 3.0, I get

http://www.siig.com/it-products/usb/adapters/pcie/dp-2-port-usb-3-0-pcie.html

with w7 support and a sata power connector
VanguardLH
2018-06-02 08:07:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
If I move down to 3.0, I get
http://www.siig.com/it-products/usb/adapters/pcie/dp-2-port-usb-3-0-pcie.html
with w7 support and a sata power connector
You would only be moving down from USB 3.1 (10 Gbps) *if* the external
USB-attached drive also supports USB 3.1. Does it? Maybe it's just a
USB 3.0 device, so it'll max out at 5 Gbps (which is theoretical and
never obtainable) even when connected to a USB 3.1 port.

Also, while it mentions a PCI-e slot as a requirement, there's no
mention if it can only use a PCI-e 1x slot (the short one) or what PCI-e
slot type it can use. The PCI-e 1x slot only has 1 lane. If you're
using only one of the card's ports then the 1 lane is okay. If you
attach another USB device to the card, effective bandwidth goes down
since the 2 devices on 1 lane will contend with other. After looking at
the product page and the photo there, the connector on this card is just
PCI-e 1x. Guess you're supposed to know from the pic of the card to see
you are limited to 1 lane connector (as I recall, you can plug a 1x card
into the larger/longer PCI-e slots but you're wasting their lanes).

Know what mobo is in the computer? Does it have a PCI-e 1x slot? And
is that slot unfettered? That is, is that slot currently available? I
have a fat video card that occupies 2 PCI-e slots. This blocks the only
PCI-e 1x slot on my mobo (some Acer model in a pre-built that I salvaged
from a friend that didn't want to fix it as an excuse to get a better
gaming computer). Even if I managed to slide a card into the PCI-e 1x
slot, the back cage slot for it is already used up by the fat video
card. If the customer has no need for decent 3D graphics (they don't
play video games or using drawing programs, like Photoshop or AutoCAD),
and just use the onboard video controller (if the Intel CPU has it) the
the PCI-e 1x slot should be free and usabled (not free but unusable as
my setup).
T
2018-06-04 05:32:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by VanguardLH
Post by T
If I move down to 3.0, I get
http://www.siig.com/it-products/usb/adapters/pcie/dp-2-port-usb-3-0-pcie.html
with w7 support and a sata power connector
You would only be moving down from USB 3.1 (10 Gbps) *if* the external
USB-attached drive also supports USB 3.1. Does it?
Not spec'ed out yet.
Post by VanguardLH
Also, while it mentions a PCI-e slot as a requirement,
I find USB 3 on a one lane to be slow. So I prefer cards that
use four lanes.
Post by VanguardLH
Know what mobo is in the computer?
Dell OptiPlex 960

It is old, but it is sweet running Windows 7 and
he loves the computer.

He has other computers running Where's Waldo (W10)
and he hates them, which is something I find a lot.
(Classic Shell and Shut Up 10 help a lot in
that respect.)
Paul
2018-06-04 13:28:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Post by VanguardLH
Post by T
If I move down to 3.0, I get
http://www.siig.com/it-products/usb/adapters/pcie/dp-2-port-usb-3-0-pcie.html
with w7 support and a sata power connector
You would only be moving down from USB 3.1 (10 Gbps) *if* the external
USB-attached drive also supports USB 3.1. Does it?
Not spec'ed out yet.
Post by VanguardLH
Also, while it mentions a PCI-e slot as a requirement,
I find USB 3 on a one lane to be slow. So I prefer cards that
use four lanes.
Post by VanguardLH
Know what mobo is in the computer?
Dell OptiPlex 960
It is old, but it is sweet running Windows 7 and
he loves the computer.
He has other computers running Where's Waldo (W10)
and he hates them, which is something I find a lot.
(Classic Shell and Shut Up 10 help a lot in
that respect.)
https://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/optix/en/desktop-optiplex-960-technical-guidebook-en.pdf

Chipset Q45/ICH10DO

Loading Image...

The processor PCI Express x16 is likely Rev.2 standard.

The add-in card slots are wired to Rev.1 x1 via ICH10
and the DMI bus.

So a USB3 card will give close to 200MB/sec or so in
an x1 slot. If the $25 NEC/Renesas USB3 card was plugged
into the video card slot, it would go faster.

You wouldn't be able to use a USB3.1 Rev.2 with x4
connector, unless it plugged into the video card slot.
With the purpose being there, to take advantage of
the Asmedia two lane chip interface to gain extra speed
from the bus side.

In the PostImage picture, notice this system has the
added complexity of sharing video card slot lane wiring
with the Q45 GPU graphics connectors. I presume that means the
slot is wired x8, as it wouldn't be too good
to be using muxes or something to share the I/Os.
What cheapness, Intel !!! What would it have cost them
to put separate pins for those graphics digital outputs ?

Paul
T
2018-06-04 19:25:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul
Post by T
Post by VanguardLH
Post by T
If I move down to 3.0, I get
http://www.siig.com/it-products/usb/adapters/pcie/dp-2-port-usb-3-0-pcie.html
with w7 support and a sata power connector
You would only be moving down from USB 3.1 (10 Gbps) *if* the external
USB-attached drive also supports USB 3.1.  Does it?
Not spec'ed out yet.
Post by VanguardLH
Also, while it mentions a PCI-e slot as a requirement,
I find USB 3 on a one lane to be slow.  So I prefer cards that
use four lanes.
Post by VanguardLH
Know what mobo is in the computer?
Dell OptiPlex 960
It is old, but it is sweet running Windows 7 and
he loves the computer.
He has other computers running Where's Waldo (W10)
and he hates them, which is something I find a lot.
(Classic Shell and Shut Up 10 help a lot in
that respect.)
https://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/optix/en/desktop-optiplex-960-technical-guidebook-en.pdf
   Chipset Q45/ICH10DO
   https://s15.postimg.cc/iebrabknv/q45.gif
The processor PCI Express x16 is likely Rev.2 standard.
The add-in card slots are wired to Rev.1 x1 via ICH10
and the DMI bus.
So a USB3 card will give close to 200MB/sec or so in
an x1 slot. If the $25 NEC/Renesas USB3 card was plugged
into the video card slot, it would go faster.
You wouldn't be able to use a USB3.1 Rev.2 with x4
connector, unless it plugged into the video card slot.
With the purpose being there, to take advantage of
the Asmedia two lane chip interface to gain extra speed
from the bus side.
In the PostImage picture, notice this system has the
added complexity of sharing video card slot lane wiring
with the Q45 GPU graphics connectors. I presume that means the
slot is wired x8, as it wouldn't be too good
to be using muxes or something to share the I/Os.
What cheapness, Intel !!! What would it have cost them
to put separate pins for those graphics digital outputs ?
   Paul
Ya, I was just going to plug into the 16 lane slot.

The guy really should get a new computer, but he hates
Windows 10.

He is also a new customer. And telling a new customer
to get a new computer typically turns him into a
former customer.
Paul
2018-06-04 20:09:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Post by Paul
Post by T
Post by VanguardLH
Post by T
If I move down to 3.0, I get
http://www.siig.com/it-products/usb/adapters/pcie/dp-2-port-usb-3-0-pcie.html
with w7 support and a sata power connector
You would only be moving down from USB 3.1 (10 Gbps) *if* the external
USB-attached drive also supports USB 3.1. Does it?
Not spec'ed out yet.
Post by VanguardLH
Also, while it mentions a PCI-e slot as a requirement,
I find USB 3 on a one lane to be slow. So I prefer cards that
use four lanes.
Post by VanguardLH
Know what mobo is in the computer?
Dell OptiPlex 960
It is old, but it is sweet running Windows 7 and
he loves the computer.
He has other computers running Where's Waldo (W10)
and he hates them, which is something I find a lot.
(Classic Shell and Shut Up 10 help a lot in
that respect.)
https://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/optix/en/desktop-optiplex-960-technical-guidebook-en.pdf
Chipset Q45/ICH10DO
https://s15.postimg.cc/iebrabknv/q45.gif
The processor PCI Express x16 is likely Rev.2 standard.
The add-in card slots are wired to Rev.1 x1 via ICH10
and the DMI bus.
So a USB3 card will give close to 200MB/sec or so in
an x1 slot. If the $25 NEC/Renesas USB3 card was plugged
into the video card slot, it would go faster.
You wouldn't be able to use a USB3.1 Rev.2 with x4
connector, unless it plugged into the video card slot.
With the purpose being there, to take advantage of
the Asmedia two lane chip interface to gain extra speed
from the bus side.
In the PostImage picture, notice this system has the
added complexity of sharing video card slot lane wiring
with the Q45 GPU graphics connectors. I presume that means the
slot is wired x8, as it wouldn't be too good
to be using muxes or something to share the I/Os.
What cheapness, Intel !!! What would it have cost them
to put separate pins for those graphics digital outputs ?
Paul
Ya, I was just going to plug into the 16 lane slot.
The guy really should get a new computer, but he hates
Windows 10.
He is also a new customer. And telling a new customer
to get a new computer typically turns him into a
former customer.
Since the video card slot is Rev.2, that should be
a good fit for a $25 USB3 card.

Paul
Brian Gregory
2018-06-04 20:32:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
The guy really should get a new computer, but he hates
Windows 10.
Well yes.

They completely update it every 6 months thus breaking some more of your
favourite old programs.

Why would anyone be pleased about that?

It's also pig ugly after Windows 7.
--
Brian Gregory (in England).
T
2018-06-04 21:19:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Brian Gregory
Post by T
The guy really should get a new computer, but he hates
Windows 10.
Well yes.
They completely update it every 6 months thus breaking some more of your
favourite old programs.
Why would anyone be pleased about that?
It's also pig ugly after Windows 7.
It is a horrible mess. 1803 was fun! Broke a ton
of stuff.

I can't get w7 oem disks anymore

And Linux's lack of business software makes it
hopeless for small businesses
Patrick
2018-06-02 09:13:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Hi All,
Stay away from the Star Tech PEXUSB311AC2
    StarTech.com Dual Port USB 3.1 Card – 1x USB-C – 1x
    USB-A – 10Gbps per port – Expansion Card – USB 3.1 PCI-E
    Card – USB 3 PCI
It crashes your file system on large file transfers and crashes your
boot if anything is plugged into it when you boot.
Anyone have a favorite PCIe USB 3.1 card that actually
works right?  Siig?
Many thanks,
-T
On W7, I have the likes of this;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB3-0-2-Port-SATA-5Gbps-19-Pin-Intenal-PCIe-Express-Controller-Card-Bracket-CD/202326085209?epid=501525094&hash=item2f1b930e59:g:e6EAAOSwo4pYfykP

It came with a min-disk that had several drivers (Setup.exe type) on,
(turns out to have a VIA chip).
The blue socket is for a twin front panel USB3 socket.
I had a little difficulty with the bracket that didn't quite stretch to
the case (had to bend it a little).

There is also a similar version of the same with all 4 USB3 sockets at
the back;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCI-E-USB3-0-Hub-Controller-Adapter-with-4Pin-Power-Connector-Expansion-Card/173339318336?hash=item285bd41840:g:LjQAAOSwBSxbDCnj
T
2018-06-04 05:34:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Patrick
Post by T
Hi All,
Stay away from the Star Tech PEXUSB311AC2
     StarTech.com Dual Port USB 3.1 Card – 1x USB-C – 1x
     USB-A – 10Gbps per port – Expansion Card – USB 3.1 PCI-E
     Card – USB 3 PCI
It crashes your file system on large file transfers and crashes your
boot if anything is plugged into it when you boot.
Anyone have a favorite PCIe USB 3.1 card that actually
works right?  Siig?
Many thanks,
-T
On W7, I have the likes of this;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB3-0-2-Port-SATA-5Gbps-19-Pin-Intenal-PCIe-Express-Controller-Card-Bracket-CD/202326085209?epid=501525094&hash=item2f1b930e59:g:e6EAAOSwo4pYfykP
It came with a min-disk that had several drivers (Setup.exe type) on,
(turns out to have a VIA chip).
The blue socket is for a twin front panel USB3 socket.
I had a little difficulty with the bracket that didn't quite stretch to
the case (had to bend it a little).
There is also a similar version of the same with all 4 USB3 sockets at
the back;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCI-E-USB3-0-Hub-Controller-Adapter-with-4Pin-Power-Connector-Expansion-Card/173339318336?hash=item285bd41840:g:LjQAAOSwBSxbDCnj
I try to avoid Fleabay. Who makes these cards?
VanguardLH
2018-06-04 08:19:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Post by Patrick
Post by T
Hi All,
Stay away from the Star Tech PEXUSB311AC2
     StarTech.com Dual Port USB 3.1 Card – 1x USB-C – 1x
     USB-A – 10Gbps per port – Expansion Card – USB 3.1 PCI-E
     Card – USB 3 PCI
It crashes your file system on large file transfers and crashes your
boot if anything is plugged into it when you boot.
Anyone have a favorite PCIe USB 3.1 card that actually
works right?  Siig?
Many thanks,
-T
On W7, I have the likes of this;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB3-0-2-Port-SATA-5Gbps-19-Pin-Intenal-PCIe-Express-Controller-Card-Bracket-CD/202326085209?epid=501525094&hash=item2f1b930e59:g:e6EAAOSwo4pYfykP
It came with a min-disk that had several drivers (Setup.exe type) on,
(turns out to have a VIA chip).
The blue socket is for a twin front panel USB3 socket.
I had a little difficulty with the bracket that didn't quite stretch to
the case (had to bend it a little).
There is also a similar version of the same with all 4 USB3 sockets at
the back;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCI-E-USB3-0-Hub-Controller-Adapter-with-4Pin-Power-Connector-Expansion-Card/173339318336?hash=item285bd41840:g:LjQAAOSwBSxbDCnj
I try to avoid Fleabay. Who makes these cards?
Probably most, maybe all, are made in China. The "maker" just slaps
their sticker on the product. For example, Corsair doesn't manufacture
anything but specs out what they want someone else to make, puts their
name on it, and users are led to believe because "Corsair" is on the
product that it must be better than some OEM or white label product.
The same plant can manufacture crappy, mediocre, and excellent products
depending on what their told to build. There are lots of video cards
that are built only to the reference model for the GPU, so they're easy
to "design" (it's already been done).

I could tell who made the USB card in the first eBay auction. In the
second one and its pics, , I noticed "ACS-N204Plus" silkscreened on the
PCB.

https://www.google.com/search?q=acs-n204plus

which let me find:

https://www.acs.com.hk/en/

That ACS (Advanced Card Systems) is based in Hong Kong doesn't mean that
is where the card is manufacturered. ACS could be just another reseller
of some manufacturer's product. ACS tell the manufacturer what to
produce, including the silkscreened text. Their about-us page
(https://www.acs.com.hk/en/corporate-profile/) merely says they develop
the products, not that they manufacture them.

While SIIG (the "maker" in which you were interested) claims to be a
manufacturer, I've yet to see anywhere listed their production plants.
Could be they are a "someone else manufactures to SIIG's specs" brand.
When going by brand, you can only rely on their reputation regarding
quality and don't really care who actually makes the product for that
brand. Tis likely ACS makes cards for several different brands. You
just don't get the brand stickers on the products.

I don't see any USB design as being highly complicated these days. A
controller chip, some voltage regulation and diodes for connection
protection, and that's about it.

I don't see a problem with the card itself in that eBay auction. The
big problem is that it ships from Hong Kong. Items listed for location
as China end up taking 45 days for delivery to the USA due to extended
delays in customs for China. I don't know if Hong Kong for seller
location is any better. If they had regional distribution centers
(warehouses) that they stocked to avoid customs delays then the auction
should list that warehouse as from where the item ships. Even if I
elect the "Item location = UK only" (for me it would be US only since I
use the eBay.com site, not ebay.co.uk), the seller could be anywhere,
like China, but would need to ship from a distro center is the US.

The seller claims to sell "Worldwide" and yet has a huge list of
exclusions, including Hong Kong where ACS (the card "maker") is located
and all of North and South America. Geez! This seller has a very tight
range of to which countries he will sell (well, to where he will ship).

Personally I don't bother with any of their bid-only auctions. Waste of
my time. I already know that I want the product, so I'm not fighting,
er, bidding with others to get it. Plus there is a lot of sniping going
on (last second bidding). There are even sites dedicated to help buyers
snipe within the last few seconds of an auction at eBay (e.g.,
justsnipe.com). I've ran across way too many boobs that haven't done
any research on pricing to know what a product sells for. They end up
overbidding, spend more than they should, and push out everyone else
that does know the pricing. I use the "Buy It Now" filter to only look
at auctions where I can buy NOW and not waste time with bidding. By the
time you add shipping cost to an auction, you might as well as enable
the "free postage" filter to get free shipping. The seller will add in
the shipping cost since they aren't in business to lose money; however,
if there is a problem, a return on a "free shipping" item means you get
both the bid/buy-it-now price AND the initial shipping. A return on a
free-shipped item means there is no shipping cost to deduct from what
you paid. You're only stuck with the return shipping. At eBay, I used
the new, buy-it-now, free shipping, my country (for location of seller)

I don't see a problem with the card. Rather I see a seller from whom I
would NEVER buy. Also, as you noted in your reply to one of my other
posts, you don't want a 1-lane PCI-e 1x USB card, and that's what is
being sold in this eBay auction.

If you decide a PCI-e 1x daughtercard is okay for adding USB ports, why
go with just 2 ports, or just 4 ports. You can get 7-port cards. I
doubt those ports are concurrently used (even if devices are left
plugged into them). However, with the ports horizontal instead of
vertical, they can be too tight to the backplate opening. You'll need
to slide the card into the slot, plug a USB cable into both the bottom
and top ports, and THEN tighten the hold-down screw.

Just in case the StarTech card that you don't like was bought less than
30 days ago, they have a 30-day satisfaction guarantee. You'll need to
contact them to see if they honor that guarantee when their products are
sold through other sellers (Newegg, Amazon, etc).

https://www.startech.com/faq/startech-return-policy
Paul
2018-06-04 13:40:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Post by Patrick
Post by T
Hi All,
Stay away from the Star Tech PEXUSB311AC2
StarTech.com Dual Port USB 3.1 Card – 1x USB-C – 1x
USB-A – 10Gbps per port – Expansion Card – USB 3.1 PCI-E
Card – USB 3 PCI
It crashes your file system on large file transfers and crashes your
boot if anything is plugged into it when you boot.
Anyone have a favorite PCIe USB 3.1 card that actually
works right? Siig?
Many thanks,
-T
On W7, I have the likes of this;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB3-0-2-Port-SATA-5Gbps-19-Pin-Intenal-PCIe-Express-Controller-Card-Bracket-CD/202326085209?epid=501525094&hash=item2f1b930e59:g:e6EAAOSwo4pYfykP
It came with a min-disk that had several drivers (Setup.exe type) on,
(turns out to have a VIA chip).
The blue socket is for a twin front panel USB3 socket.
I had a little difficulty with the bracket that didn't quite stretch
to the case (had to bend it a little).
There is also a similar version of the same with all 4 USB3 sockets at
the back;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCI-E-USB3-0-Hub-Controller-Adapter-with-4Pin-Power-Connector-Expansion-Card/173339318336?hash=item285bd41840:g:LjQAAOSwBSxbDCnj
I try to avoid Fleabay. Who makes these cards?
Judging by the trader name in the advert, somebody in India makes them ?
Could an Indian seller make money by buying Chinese materials ?

As for the VL805, there's a comparison here.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/usb-3.1-performance-benchmark,4037-2.html

To make "257MB/sec" implies the VIA device was connected to Rev.2
wiring. Yet it's slower than the Intel at 420MB/sec or the
Asmedia 1142 3.1 running at 700MB/sec. It makes you wonder
what the VL805 would do, when tied to a Rev.1 lane.

Paul
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