Discussion:
OT; old CDs and DVDs
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Ed Cryer
2018-05-11 15:45:44 UTC
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I've been sorting out a box of old discs from twenty years ago, Windows
95 days. There were about a hundred in two CD wallets, stored in a back
bedroom, unheated in winter. Ten of them I kept, and I've been examining
these on this Win7 computer.
Everything I've tried is readable, utterly readable and executable; and
that includes CD-Rs and DVD-Rs burnt elsewhere.
¡Viva Win7! ¡Y vivant discos viejos!

Ed
Paul
2018-05-11 18:20:39 UTC
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Post by Ed Cryer
I've been sorting out a box of old discs from twenty years ago, Windows
95 days. There were about a hundred in two CD wallets, stored in a back
bedroom, unheated in winter. Ten of them I kept, and I've been examining
these on this Win7 computer.
Everything I've tried is readable, utterly readable and executable; and
that includes CD-Rs and DVD-Rs burnt elsewhere.
¡Viva Win7! ¡Y vivant discos viejos!
Ed
Some of the older re-writeable discs weren't that stable.
I had one Memorex CDRW disc that went "transparent" in
about three months. Of course Memorex doesn't make the
media, and just bought lots of blanks from the lowest
bidder. Verbatim on the other hand, seemed to test what
they were selling, and the media tags would indicate
quality sources for the discs. Quality sources
might be Taiyo Yuden or Ritek.

There used to be two forums that did nothing but
discuss optical discs and burning, and you could
get good info there on which medias were good and
bad, as they'd do error scans to see which is which.

*******

The write-once stuff should be more stable.

There's no reason a -R won't work.

It has a lot to do with chemistry.

Paul
Ed Cryer
2018-05-11 19:49:28 UTC
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Post by Paul
Post by Ed Cryer
I've been sorting out a box of old discs from twenty years ago,
Windows 95 days. There were about a hundred in two CD wallets, stored
in a back bedroom, unheated in winter. Ten of them I kept, and I've
been examining these on this Win7 computer.
Everything I've tried is readable, utterly readable and executable;
and that includes CD-Rs and DVD-Rs burnt elsewhere.
¡Viva Win7! ¡Y vivant discos viejos!
Ed
Some of the older re-writeable discs weren't that stable.
I had one Memorex CDRW disc that went "transparent" in
about three months. Of course Memorex doesn't make the
media, and just bought lots of blanks from the lowest
bidder. Verbatim on the other hand, seemed to test what
they were selling, and the media tags would indicate
quality sources for the discs. Quality sources
might be Taiyo Yuden or Ritek.
There used to be two forums that did nothing but
discuss optical discs and burning, and you could
get good info there on which medias were good and
bad, as they'd do error scans to see which is which.
*******
The write-once stuff should be more stable.
There's no reason a -R won't work.
It has a lot to do with chemistry.
   Paul
Have you ever seen "Logan's Run"? I was impressed by the spinning
storage discs, and it made me think about ancient papyrus, vellum, paper.
Medieval monks had a bad habit of reusing classical manuscripts, after
scraping them. Modern technology is finding all kinds of things behind
psalters and prayer-books. Boccaccio and Petrarch wrote about well-worn
paths between monastery libraries and the scriptoria. Umberto Eco's "The
Name of The Rose" revolves around something similar. Euripides wrote 95
plays, and 18 survive; while many famous Greek and Roman writers survive
by one manuscript alone, often dug up in some place where there was an
earthquake or eruption.

Still, I guess that paper has greater longevity than laser-burnt discs.

Ed
Diesel
2018-05-16 06:55:37 UTC
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Ed Cryer <***@somewhere.in.the.uk> news:pd4s7u$2dv$***@dont-email.me
Fri, 11 May 2018 19:49:28 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:

[snip]
Post by Ed Cryer
Have you ever seen "Logan's Run"? I was impressed by the spinning
storage discs, and it made me think about ancient papyrus, vellum,
paper. Medieval monks had a bad habit of reusing classical
manuscripts, after scraping them. Modern technology is finding all
kinds of things behind psalters and prayer-books. Boccaccio and
Petrarch wrote about well-worn paths between monastery libraries
and the scriptoria. Umberto Eco's "The Name of The Rose" revolves
around something similar. Euripides wrote 95 plays, and 18
survive; while many famous Greek and Roman writers survive by one
manuscript alone, often dug up in some place where there was an
earthquake or eruption.
Still, I guess that paper has greater longevity than laser-burnt discs.
Even if the laser-burnt disc had the same or better longevity than
various kinds of paper?, who's to say, a few thousand years (or even
a few hundred years from now) anyone would have the necessary
equipment in working condition that could actually do something
useful with the disc made centuries before?

Atleast with the present discoveries from long ago, it's text or
something else somebody today can read and understand. It doesn't
require hardware and software from the age of that writing or
knowledge of such to do it.
--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit here:
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===================================================
An Emergency Call Centre worker has been fired in Toronto much to the
dismay of her colleagues, who were unhappy with her dismissal.
It seems that a caller dialled 911 from a cell phone stating, "I'm
depressed and lying on a railway line so that when the train comes I
can finally meet Allah."
To which the call centre employee replied, "Remain calm and stay on
the line."
Ed Cryer
2018-05-16 15:06:20 UTC
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Post by Mark Lloyd
[snip]
Post by Ed Cryer
Have you ever seen "Logan's Run"? I was impressed by the spinning
storage discs, and it made me think about ancient papyrus, vellum,
paper. Medieval monks had a bad habit of reusing classical
manuscripts, after scraping them. Modern technology is finding all
kinds of things behind psalters and prayer-books. Boccaccio and
Petrarch wrote about well-worn paths between monastery libraries
and the scriptoria. Umberto Eco's "The Name of The Rose" revolves
around something similar. Euripides wrote 95 plays, and 18
survive; while many famous Greek and Roman writers survive by one
manuscript alone, often dug up in some place where there was an
earthquake or eruption.
Still, I guess that paper has greater longevity than laser-burnt discs.
Even if the laser-burnt disc had the same or better longevity than
various kinds of paper?, who's to say, a few thousand years (or even
a few hundred years from now) anyone would have the necessary
equipment in working condition that could actually do something
useful with the disc made centuries before?
Atleast with the present discoveries from long ago, it's text or
something else somebody today can read and understand. It doesn't
require hardware and software from the age of that writing or
knowledge of such to do it.
Can you think of any technology of the past that's now incomprehensible?
I know that people have claimed there is (like Erich von Däniken in his
"Chariots of the gods". Space alien technology!). But they've all been
debunked on further investigation. Things like the Egyptians knowing
about pi, having used batteries; Archimedes having used lasers in the
3rd c. BC. How the ancient Brits moved the megaliths of Stonehenge all
that way; the Romans using concrete under water (see here for the
latter;
https://www.nature.com/news/seawater-is-the-secret-to-long-lasting-roman-concrete-1.22231)

We know how to make waterwheels, Archimedean screws, Roman ballistas,
Greek fire, pulleys, etc.

Ed
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-05-16 19:31:41 UTC
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Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Mark Lloyd
[snip]
Post by Ed Cryer
Have you ever seen "Logan's Run"? I was impressed by the spinning
storage discs, and it made me think about ancient papyrus, vellum,
paper. Medieval monks had a bad habit of reusing classical
manuscripts, after scraping them. Modern technology is finding all
kinds of things behind psalters and prayer-books. Boccaccio and
Petrarch wrote about well-worn paths between monastery libraries
and the scriptoria. Umberto Eco's "The Name of The Rose" revolves
around something similar. Euripides wrote 95 plays, and 18
survive; while many famous Greek and Roman writers survive by one
manuscript alone, often dug up in some place where there was an
earthquake or eruption.
Still, I guess that paper has greater longevity than laser-burnt discs.
Paper, or Vellum?

It's probably too soon to say for laser-burnt media. We know plenty of
them that _haven't_ survived, but those are due to poor storage,
manufacturing faults, poor burning, and so on; there are lots that
_have_ survived so far.
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Mark Lloyd
Even if the laser-burnt disc had the same or better longevity than
various kinds of paper?, who's to say, a few thousand years (or even
a few hundred years from now) anyone would have the necessary
equipment in working condition that could actually do something
useful with the disc made centuries before?
Well, the paper (or marks in stone) we don't have the "equipment" -
knowledge - to "read" a lot of it. Before the discovery of the Rosetta
Stone (not just a pop group!), we weren't able to read (I think it was)
two languages, even though the media survived.

On the other hand, doesn't need to be a few hundred years: I doubt most
early disc packs are now readable; floppies, especially pre-PC; tape
backup; ZIP discs; minidiscs ... the BBC Domesday project (used
laserdiscs) ... early video recordings ...
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Mark Lloyd
Atleast with the present discoveries from long ago, it's text or
something else somebody today can read and understand. It doesn't
"Somebody" - maybe. Maybe one or two people in the world: maybe none.
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by Mark Lloyd
require hardware and software from the age of that writing or
knowledge of such to do it.
Can you think of any technology of the past that's now
incomprehensible?
I've listed a few above. OK, you _might_ be able to find equipment for
some of them. But some of them are getting hard to find - especially the
Domesday project and early videotapes.
Post by Ed Cryer
I know that people have claimed there is (like Erich von Däniken in his
"Chariots of the gods". Space alien technology!). But they've all been
debunked on further investigation. Things like the Egyptians knowing
about pi, having used batteries;
(I was wondering how having used batteries would help them know about
pi, then I realised what you meant!)
Post by Ed Cryer
Archimedes having used lasers in the 3rd c. BC. How the ancient Brits
moved the megaliths of Stonehenge all that way; the Romans using
concrete under water (see here for the latter;
https://www.nature.com/news/seawater-is-the-secret-to-long-lasting-roman
-concrete-1.22231)
We know how to make waterwheels, Archimedean screws, Roman ballistas,
Greek fire, pulleys, etc.
Ed
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

By the very definition of "news," we hear very little about the dominant
threats to our lives, and the most about the rarest, including terror.
"LibertyMcG" alias Brian P. McGlinchey, 2013-7-23
Ant
2018-05-12 02:39:35 UTC
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Post by Paul
Post by Ed Cryer
I've been sorting out a box of old discs from twenty years ago, Windows
95 days. There were about a hundred in two CD wallets, stored in a back
bedroom, unheated in winter. Ten of them I kept, and I've been examining
these on this Win7 computer.
Everything I've tried is readable, utterly readable and executable; and
that includes CD-Rs and DVD-Rs burnt elsewhere.
¡Viva Win7! ¡Y vivant discos viejos!
Ed
Some of the older re-writeable discs weren't that stable.
I had one Memorex CDRW disc that went "transparent" in
about three months. Of course Memorex doesn't make the
media, and just bought lots of blanks from the lowest
bidder. Verbatim on the other hand, seemed to test what
they were selling, and the media tags would indicate
quality sources for the discs. Quality sources
might be Taiyo Yuden or Ritek.
There used to be two forums that did nothing but
discuss optical discs and burning, and you could
get good info there on which medias were good and
bad, as they'd do error scans to see which is which.
Were http://www.cdmediaworld.com and
http://www.digitalfaq.com/reviews/dvd-media.htm the ones?
Post by Paul
*******
The write-once stuff should be more stable.
There's no reason a -R won't work.
It has a lot to do with chemistry.
Memorex was an awful brand to me.

I have more problems with burnable DVDs. Many readers can't read my
burned DVDs compared to CDs!
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Paul
2018-05-12 06:16:14 UTC
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Post by Ant
Were http://www.cdmediaworld.com and
http://www.digitalfaq.com/reviews/dvd-media.htm the ones?
One of them was called cdfreaks, but they changed the site name.
It has reviews and a forum.

https://www.myce.com/review/Plextor-PX-716A-DVD-Recorder-68/writing-dvdr_rw-5/

This is another that comes to mind.

http://www.cdrlabs.com/forums/

One thing you'll notice, is they don't seem to care about
their original topics all that much, as burning of optical
media has dropped in popularity. It's also one of the reasons
that my single remaining computer store is stocking "crap"
for media. The Ritek is gone.

Paul
Char Jackson
2018-05-12 17:58:14 UTC
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Post by Paul
Post by Ant
Were http://www.cdmediaworld.com and
http://www.digitalfaq.com/reviews/dvd-media.htm the ones?
One of them was called cdfreaks, but they changed the site name.
It has reviews and a forum.
https://www.myce.com/review/Plextor-PX-716A-DVD-Recorder-68/writing-dvdr_rw-5/
This is another that comes to mind.
http://www.cdrlabs.com/forums/
One thing you'll notice, is they don't seem to care about
their original topics all that much, as burning of optical
media has dropped in popularity. It's also one of the reasons
that my single remaining computer store is stocking "crap"
for media. The Ritek is gone.
It's almost surprising that they stock any optical media at all. I can't
imagine there's much of a market for it these days.
--
Char Jackson
Mark Lloyd
2018-05-12 20:46:28 UTC
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On 05/12/2018 12:58 PM, Char Jackson wrote:

[snip]
Post by Char Jackson
It's almost surprising that they stock any optical media at all. I can't
imagine there's much of a market for it these days.
I always see DVD+R at the local Wal-Mart, in spindles of 100 and
sometimes smaller packages as well. They may be putting less out than
they used to, but there's always some there.

BTW, I completely forgot the last time I saw blank T-120 (VHS) or L-750
(Beta) tapes there.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"So, how come there are no "talking snakes" nowadays? ... Because you
are not righteous enough to hear them talk." [Raoul Newton,
net.fundie.idiot]
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-05-12 22:33:49 UTC
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Post by Mark Lloyd
[snip]
Post by Char Jackson
It's almost surprising that they stock any optical media at all. I can't
imagine there's much of a market for it these days.
How things have changed! Here in UK, optical media were at one time a
staple of "computer fairs" - in fact in the north of England, I'd say -
certainly in terms of table area on the stalls - they accounted for more
than 50% at that time. (Such fairs have declined considerably, sadly; I
know of one, on Sundays in Stratford [London, not On Avon], but most
have died out. As has Tottenham Court Road in London.)
Post by Mark Lloyd
I always see DVD+R at the local Wal-Mart, in spindles of 100 and
sometimes smaller packages as well. They may be putting less out than
they used to, but there's always some there.
There are usually some - packs of four or ten - in our poundshops, and
in many supermarkets.
Post by Mark Lloyd
BTW, I completely forgot the last time I saw blank T-120 (VHS) or L-750
(Beta) tapes there.
Me neither. (E180s or 240s I think it was here - Beta died out earlier.
[V2000 never really caught on, which was a pity.])
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go. - Oscar Wilde
Ant
2018-05-12 23:48:32 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Mark Lloyd
[snip]
Post by Char Jackson
It's almost surprising that they stock any optical media at all. I can't
imagine there's much of a market for it these days.
How things have changed! Here in UK, optical media were at one time a
staple of "computer fairs" - in fact in the north of England, I'd say -
certainly in terms of table area on the stalls - they accounted for more
than 50% at that time. (Such fairs have declined considerably, sadly; I
know of one, on Sundays in Stratford [London, not On Avon], but most
have died out. As has Tottenham Court Road in London.)
I still remember all those floppy disks in stores and fairs. :P
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Ant
2018-05-12 23:41:38 UTC
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Post by Mark Lloyd
[snip]
Post by Char Jackson
It's almost surprising that they stock any optical media at all. I can't
imagine there's much of a market for it these days.
I always see DVD+R at the local Wal-Mart, in spindles of 100 and
sometimes smaller packages as well. They may be putting less out than
they used to, but there's always some there.
I bet they're cheap quality too. :(

I recently got cheap priced and sometiemes free blank optical discs from
local estate sales. ;)
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Diesel
2018-05-16 06:55:38 UTC
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Post by Mark Lloyd
[snip]
Post by Char Jackson
It's almost surprising that they stock any optical media at all.
I can't imagine there's much of a market for it these days.
I always see DVD+R at the local Wal-Mart, in spindles of 100 and
sometimes smaller packages as well. They may be putting less out
than they used to, but there's always some there.
Several years ago, while I was experimenting with DVD+R vs DVD-R, I
found that +R gave me more trouble playing back on various set top
players. I don't remember off hand any computers giving me trouble
reading either disc.. I do remember having issues ranging from
freezing outright to skipping to not playing/recognizing the disc at
all using set top players. The same players which would throw a fit
with +R behaved normally with -R created from the same source.
Post by Mark Lloyd
BTW, I completely forgot the last time I saw blank T-120 (VHS) or
L-750 (Beta) tapes there.
VHS blank tapes sold in packs of five were at the local Wal-Mart (for
me) about two weeks ago. I think the Beta tapes are sold in packs of
3, but I could be mistaken. I've also seen blank cassette tapes.
--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit here:
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
===================================================
An Emergency Call Centre worker has been fired in Toronto much to the
dismay of her colleagues, who were unhappy with her dismissal.
It seems that a caller dialled 911 from a cell phone stating, "I'm
depressed and lying on a railway line so that when the train comes I
can finally meet Allah."
To which the call centre employee replied, "Remain calm and stay on
the line."
pjp
2018-05-16 18:45:18 UTC
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Post by Diesel
Post by Mark Lloyd
[snip]
Post by Char Jackson
It's almost surprising that they stock any optical media at all.
I can't imagine there's much of a market for it these days.
I always see DVD+R at the local Wal-Mart, in spindles of 100 and
sometimes smaller packages as well. They may be putting less out
than they used to, but there's always some there.
Several years ago, while I was experimenting with DVD+R vs DVD-R, I
found that +R gave me more trouble playing back on various set top
players. I don't remember off hand any computers giving me trouble
reading either disc.. I do remember having issues ranging from
freezing outright to skipping to not playing/recognizing the disc at
all using set top players. The same players which would throw a fit
with +R behaved normally with -R created from the same source.
My hardware dvd recorder although box said both "+" & "-" dvd's the
thing only see "+" disks even for just reading. I accepted that given
player was under $100 when most were $300+. It works so ...

It's why I have a stack of "DVD+RW"'s :)

I notice also when you see blank dvds now they are almost always "-"
disks.
Post by Diesel
Post by Mark Lloyd
BTW, I completely forgot the last time I saw blank T-120 (VHS) or
L-750 (Beta) tapes there.
VHS blank tapes sold in packs of five were at the local Wal-Mart (for
me) about two weeks ago. I think the Beta tapes are sold in packs of
3, but I could be mistaken. I've also seen blank cassette tapes.
Diesel
2018-05-16 06:55:38 UTC
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Post by Char Jackson
Post by Paul
Post by Ant
Were http://www.cdmediaworld.com and
http://www.digitalfaq.com/reviews/dvd-media.htm the ones?
One of them was called cdfreaks, but they changed the site name.
It has reviews and a forum.
https://www.myce.com/review/Plextor-PX-716A-DVD-Recorder-68/writing
-dvdr_rw-5/
This is another that comes to mind.
http://www.cdrlabs.com/forums/
One thing you'll notice, is they don't seem to care about
their original topics all that much, as burning of optical
media has dropped in popularity. It's also one of the reasons
that my single remaining computer store is stocking "crap"
for media. The Ritek is gone.
It's almost surprising that they stock any optical media at all. I
can't imagine there's much of a market for it these days.
There's still some. I still use dvd-r media for the most part, but,
will still make use of an actual cd-r when it's called for. For
example, not everyone owns a stereo system that can read a data disc
full of mp3s and decode them for playback. Some people actually still
own (and see no reason to ditch unless it dies) actual audio cd only
players. And, for these people, a cd-r is the perfect media. [g]

I also use the writable media for making read only iso/non iso copies
of various things too. I try to keep atleast 100 of each on hand at
any given time. There's one place that isn't too far a drive that
still stocks writable media for a fair price. I've known the owner
and the people who work there for years.

For the purposes of integrity, If I'm working an infected machine in
a live state, I'm purposely using tools provided via a read only
source. It's an old habit and probably not necessary with todays crop
of malware since it's not really worm/virus like in nature, but...I
still catch myself taking those precautions. Pretty obvious I don't
trust the very machines I love so much isn't it? [g] I don't trust
them, because, like many others, I know how they work. rofl.
--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit here:
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
===================================================
An Emergency Call Centre worker has been fired in Toronto much to the
dismay of her colleagues, who were unhappy with her dismissal.
It seems that a caller dialled 911 from a cell phone stating, "I'm
depressed and lying on a railway line so that when the train comes I
can finally meet Allah."
To which the call centre employee replied, "Remain calm and stay on
the line."
pjp
2018-05-13 05:31:44 UTC
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Post by Paul
Post by Ed Cryer
I've been sorting out a box of old discs from twenty years ago, Windows
95 days. There were about a hundred in two CD wallets, stored in a back
bedroom, unheated in winter. Ten of them I kept, and I've been examining
these on this Win7 computer.
Everything I've tried is readable, utterly readable and executable; and
that includes CD-Rs and DVD-Rs burnt elsewhere.
¡Viva Win7! ¡Y vivant discos viejos!
Ed
Some of the older re-writeable discs weren't that stable.
I had one Memorex CDRW disc that went "transparent" in
about three months. Of course Memorex doesn't make the
media, and just bought lots of blanks from the lowest
bidder. Verbatim on the other hand, seemed to test what
they were selling, and the media tags would indicate
quality sources for the discs. Quality sources
might be Taiyo Yuden or Ritek.
There used to be two forums that did nothing but
discuss optical discs and burning, and you could
get good info there on which medias were good and
bad, as they'd do error scans to see which is which.
*******
The write-once stuff should be more stable.
There's no reason a -R won't work.
It has a lot to do with chemistry.
Paul
Well I for one am counting on cd's and dvd's to last a very long time if
properly stored. I have literally thousands of them as I make backup
copies of pretty much everything passes thru my hands. I also have a
very very large library of music and videos all backed up onto optical
disk that are backups basicly to the two copies I keep of most of it on
portable/external separate hard disks (movies also get burned as
standard playable dvd). The optical disks are kept stored in cases in a
cabinet except for the most common ones used a lot, e.g. Windows
install/backup disks etc. I validate every disk when burned and I have
yet to have one I can't read ... yet.

I exclusively use writable disks for backup. I find re-writables can't
be trusted and I use them only for my hardware dvd recorder for
"taping' tv. If I want to keep that I rip it using the pc.
Shadow
2018-05-13 13:38:17 UTC
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On Sun, 13 May 2018 02:31:44 -0300, pjp
Post by pjp
Well I for one am counting on cd's and dvd's to last a very long time if
properly stored. I have literally thousands of them as I make backup
copies of pretty much everything passes thru my hands. I also have a
very very large library of music and videos all backed up onto optical
disk that are backups basicly to the two copies I keep of most of it on
portable/external separate hard disks (movies also get burned as
standard playable dvd). The optical disks are kept stored in cases in a
cabinet except for the most common ones used a lot, e.g. Windows
install/backup disks etc. I validate every disk when burned and I have
yet to have one I can't read ... yet.
I exclusively use writable disks for backup. I find re-writables can't
be trusted and I use them only for my hardware dvd recorder for
"taping' tv. If I want to keep that I rip it using the pc.
+1 on everything you wrote, except that I no longer use CDs,
DVDs are cheaper. I go by brand names, like HP, Philips and Sony and
very, very rarely get a coaster.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
pjp
2018-05-14 20:41:31 UTC
Reply
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In article <***@4ax.com>, ***@dow.br
says...
Post by Shadow
On Sun, 13 May 2018 02:31:44 -0300, pjp
Post by pjp
Well I for one am counting on cd's and dvd's to last a very long time if
properly stored. I have literally thousands of them as I make backup
copies of pretty much everything passes thru my hands. I also have a
very very large library of music and videos all backed up onto optical
disk that are backups basicly to the two copies I keep of most of it on
portable/external separate hard disks (movies also get burned as
standard playable dvd). The optical disks are kept stored in cases in a
cabinet except for the most common ones used a lot, e.g. Windows
install/backup disks etc. I validate every disk when burned and I have
yet to have one I can't read ... yet.
I exclusively use writable disks for backup. I find re-writables can't
be trusted and I use them only for my hardware dvd recorder for
"taping' tv. If I want to keep that I rip it using the pc.
+1 on everything you wrote, except that I no longer use CDs,
DVDs are cheaper. I go by brand names, like HP, Philips and Sony and
very, very rarely get a coaster.
[]'
Yes I also use almost ezclusively use dvd's now. I notice when you see
them cd's are now more expensive than dvd's and even dvd's are getting
less common to find with restricted choices. I suspect soon I'll end up
buying 5-10 stacks of 100 just to insure I have them. Real drag I can't
find any more Lightscribe cd's or DVD's anymore. I believe they stopped
making them argh!@#
Wildman
2018-05-14 21:33:38 UTC
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Post by pjp
says...
Post by Shadow
On Sun, 13 May 2018 02:31:44 -0300, pjp
Post by pjp
Well I for one am counting on cd's and dvd's to last a very long time if
properly stored. I have literally thousands of them as I make backup
copies of pretty much everything passes thru my hands. I also have a
very very large library of music and videos all backed up onto optical
disk that are backups basicly to the two copies I keep of most of it on
portable/external separate hard disks (movies also get burned as
standard playable dvd). The optical disks are kept stored in cases in a
cabinet except for the most common ones used a lot, e.g. Windows
install/backup disks etc. I validate every disk when burned and I have
yet to have one I can't read ... yet.
I exclusively use writable disks for backup. I find re-writables can't
be trusted and I use them only for my hardware dvd recorder for
"taping' tv. If I want to keep that I rip it using the pc.
+1 on everything you wrote, except that I no longer use CDs,
DVDs are cheaper. I go by brand names, like HP, Philips and Sony and
very, very rarely get a coaster.
[]'
Yes I also use almost ezclusively use dvd's now. I notice when you see
them cd's are now more expensive than dvd's and even dvd's are getting
less common to find with restricted choices. I suspect soon I'll end up
buying 5-10 stacks of 100 just to insure I have them. Real drag I can't
find any more Lightscribe cd's or DVD's anymore. I believe they stopped
https://www.amazon.com/lightscribe-discs/s?page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Alightscribe%20discs
--
<Wildman> GNU/Linux user #557453
The cow died so I don't need your bull!
pjp
2018-05-15 02:04:44 UTC
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Post by Wildman
Post by pjp
says...
Post by Shadow
On Sun, 13 May 2018 02:31:44 -0300, pjp
Post by pjp
Well I for one am counting on cd's and dvd's to last a very long time if
properly stored. I have literally thousands of them as I make backup
copies of pretty much everything passes thru my hands. I also have a
very very large library of music and videos all backed up onto optical
disk that are backups basicly to the two copies I keep of most of it on
portable/external separate hard disks (movies also get burned as
standard playable dvd). The optical disks are kept stored in cases in a
cabinet except for the most common ones used a lot, e.g. Windows
install/backup disks etc. I validate every disk when burned and I have
yet to have one I can't read ... yet.
I exclusively use writable disks for backup. I find re-writables can't
be trusted and I use them only for my hardware dvd recorder for
"taping' tv. If I want to keep that I rip it using the pc.
+1 on everything you wrote, except that I no longer use CDs,
DVDs are cheaper. I go by brand names, like HP, Philips and Sony and
very, very rarely get a coaster.
[]'
Yes I also use almost ezclusively use dvd's now. I notice when you see
them cd's are now more expensive than dvd's and even dvd's are getting
less common to find with restricted choices. I suspect soon I'll end up
buying 5-10 stacks of 100 just to insure I have them. Real drag I can't
find any more Lightscribe cd's or DVD's anymore. I believe they stopped
https://www.amazon.com/lightscribe-discs/s?page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Alightscribe%20discs
Prices are rediculous. They used to be like 10% pricier over normal
disks is all.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-05-15 12:34:34 UTC
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Post by pjp
Post by Wildman
Post by pjp
says...
[]
Post by pjp
Post by Wildman
Post by pjp
Post by Shadow
+1 on everything you wrote, except that I no longer use CDs,
DVDs are cheaper. I go by brand names, like HP, Philips and Sony and
very, very rarely get a coaster.
[]'
I still use CDs - partly because I have a stack of what was 100 I'm
still working through (at probably less than 1 a year!), and partly
because I feel - though have no supporting evidence - that they're going
to be a little more reliable, being lower density.
Post by pjp
Post by Wildman
Post by pjp
Yes I also use almost ezclusively use dvd's now. I notice when you see
them cd's are now more expensive than dvd's and even dvd's are getting
less common to find with restricted choices. I suspect soon I'll end up
Both are certainly getting rarer.
Post by pjp
Post by Wildman
Post by pjp
buying 5-10 stacks of 100 just to insure I have them. Real drag I can't
find any more Lightscribe cd's or DVD's anymore. I believe they stopped
https://www.amazon.com/lightscribe-discs/s?page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aligh
tscribe%20discs
Prices are rediculous. They used to be like 10% pricier over normal
disks is all.
Yes, those are all 2 to 3 dollars _per blank_ - and a fair proportion
(of the first page, anyway - I didn't look further) are marked as
"manufacturer no longer making" or similar.

Although I made sure it had lightscribe ability when I bought the
(external) drive, I've never actually had any such discs.

I wonder: do you think there might be some possibility of a spray-on
coating that could be used for this purpose? (Obviously, it would only
be practical with discs that don't have printed manufacturer details -
although, thinking about it, if it was an opaque coating, it might be
OK.) Maybe a two-part process, the second coating being a "fixer" layer
that prevented degradation (blocked UV or whatever colour the coating
was susceptible to)? I give these ideas freely. [Though it'd be nice if
they ended up being called G6JPG coating (-:]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The web is a blank slate; you can't design technology that is 'good'. You can't
design paper that you can only write good things on. There are no good or evil
tools. You can put an engine in an ambulance or a tank. - Sir Tim Berners-Lee,
Radio Times 2009-Jan-30 to -Feb-5.
Char Jackson
2018-05-15 15:17:17 UTC
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On Tue, 15 May 2018 13:34:34 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I wonder: do you think there might be some possibility of a spray-on
coating that could be used for this purpose? (Obviously, it would only
be practical with discs that don't have printed manufacturer details -
although, thinking about it, if it was an opaque coating, it might be
OK.) Maybe a two-part process, the second coating being a "fixer" layer
that prevented degradation (blocked UV or whatever colour the coating
was susceptible to)? I give these ideas freely. [Though it'd be nice if
they ended up being called G6JPG coating (-:]
John, you already have a file extension that uses your initials, jpg,
and now you want a coating, too? Sheesh. Spread it around a little. ;-)
--
Char Jackson
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-05-15 17:23:22 UTC
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Post by Char Jackson
On Tue, 15 May 2018 13:34:34 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
(LightScribe)
Post by Char Jackson
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I wonder: do you think there might be some possibility of a spray-on
coating that could be used for this purpose? (Obviously, it would only
be practical with discs that don't have printed manufacturer details -
although, thinking about it, if it was an opaque coating, it might be
OK.) Maybe a two-part process, the second coating being a "fixer" layer
that prevented degradation (blocked UV or whatever colour the coating
was susceptible to)? I give these ideas freely. [Though it'd be nice if
they ended up being called G6JPG coating (-:]
John, you already have a file extension that uses your initials, jpg,
and now you want a coating, too? Sheesh. Spread it around a little. ;-)
(-:

(I had the initials before the Joint Picture [Experts] Group was a
twinkle in anybody's eye!)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

aibohphobia, n., The fear of palindromes.
Paul
2018-05-15 20:46:35 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Maybe a two-part process, the second coating being a "fixer" layer
that prevented degradation (blocked UV or whatever colour the coating
was susceptible to)? I give these ideas freely. [Though it'd be nice if
they ended up being called G6JPG coating (-:]
Wouldn't it be better to apply this coating to your windows ?

That will stop the UV.

Or put your DVDs in a cake tin :-)

Some of the optical media, is actually chemically unstable,
due to poor practices at the factory. And all your attention
to detail would not save the recordings on it.

*******

To give an example of how manufacturers screw up, some
company made "pink LEDs". Only trouble was, on the prototypes
(available in small quantities), the chemical that
makes the pink light, was unstable, and would
"bleach out" after only 24 hours of runtime. You would
think they would have noticed this during testing.

Paul
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-05-16 04:26:12 UTC
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Post by Paul
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Maybe a two-part process, the second coating being a "fixer" layer
that prevented degradation (blocked UV or whatever colour the coating
was susceptible to)? I give these ideas freely. [Though it'd be nice
if they ended up being called G6JPG coating (-:]
Wouldn't it be better to apply this coating to your windows ?
That will stop the UV.
Or put your DVDs in a cake tin :-)
Some of the optical media, is actually chemically unstable,
due to poor practices at the factory. And all your attention
to detail would not save the recordings on it.
I was only suggesting it for the legend side, not the data side - as an
alternative to lightscribe.
Post by Paul
*******
To give an example of how manufacturers screw up, some
company made "pink LEDs". Only trouble was, on the prototypes
(available in small quantities), the chemical that
makes the pink light, was unstable, and would
"bleach out" after only 24 hours of runtime. You would
think they would have noticed this during testing.
Paul
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I use science as my model here. We will crawl toward the truth without ever
knowing if we are all the way there. - Scott Adams, 2015-3-20
Paul
2018-05-16 05:23:24 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Paul
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Maybe a two-part process, the second coating being a "fixer" layer
that prevented degradation (blocked UV or whatever colour the coating
was susceptible to)? I give these ideas freely. [Though it'd be nice
if they ended up being called G6JPG coating (-:]
Wouldn't it be better to apply this coating to your windows ?
That will stop the UV.
Or put your DVDs in a cake tin :-)
Some of the optical media, is actually chemically unstable,
due to poor practices at the factory. And all your attention
to detail would not save the recordings on it.
I was only suggesting it for the legend side, not the data side - as an
alternative to lightscribe.
They used to make optical media with the printable label area
on it, for use with inkjets. The inkjets that had a provision
for writing on optical media. But try and find an inkjet today
that writes those. That's what we had before LightScribe,
and the people who had the proper printer, seemed to like that
scheme. It wouldn't upset the balance of the media, like
a paper label would.

The problem with LightScribe, was it took as long to burn
the label, as to burn the data bits. A "single pass" wasn't
dark enough, so the burn process had to be repeated multiple
times until the desired shade was achieved.

Paul
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-05-16 12:22:30 UTC
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Post by Paul
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Maybe a two-part process, the second coating being a "fixer" layer
that prevented degradation (blocked UV or whatever colour the
[]
Post by Paul
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I was only suggesting it for the legend side, not the data side - as
an alternative to lightscribe.
They used to make optical media with the printable label area
on it, for use with inkjets. The inkjets that had a provision
for writing on optical media. But try and find an inkjet today
that writes those. That's what we had before LightScribe,
Oh, I hadn't been aware that they'd stopped doing them.
Post by Paul
and the people who had the proper printer, seemed to like that
scheme. It wouldn't upset the balance of the media, like
a paper label would.
I never actually had any problem with paper labels, when applied with
one of the various things that applied them.
Post by Paul
The problem with LightScribe, was it took as long to burn
the label, as to burn the data bits. A "single pass" wasn't
Probably longer, given the up-to-5x-times speed of modern drives.
(Though I don't think I've ever burned a CD at max. speed - I feel
they're likely to be more reliable if burned at a lower speed.)
Post by Paul
dark enough, so the burn process had to be repeated multiple
times until the desired shade was achieved.
My first thought was that it must be difficult aligning the passes, but
I assume you mean they're all done in the one session (i. e. CD not
removed from drive between them).

I wonder if my idea of a spray-on coating - for the labelling side, to
avoid any doubt - has any legs! The chemical could be made _more_
sensitive than lightscribe discs, if it was a two-part process involving
a "fixing" spray to be applied afterwards (either to block the relevant
wavelength, or to stop further change in the chemical, as in
photographic fixers. [Or both.])
Post by Paul
Paul
John
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-05-16 12:39:25 UTC
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In message <4wRASP2GKC$***@255soft.uk>, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<G6JPG-***@255soft.uk> writes:
[]
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I wonder if my idea of a spray-on coating - for the labelling side, to
avoid any doubt - has any legs! The chemical could be made _more_
sensitive than lightscribe discs, if it was a two-part process
involving a "fixing" spray to be applied afterwards (either to block
the relevant wavelength, or to stop further change in the chemical, as
in photographic fixers. [Or both.])
[]
I've just had a further thought, though: did LightScribe discs have at
least some tracking info on the label side? I'd always assumed their
only difference to non-LightScribe discs was some extra chemical on the
label side. But I got to wondering how the tracking mechanism was
persuaded to work. If it could be constrained to work in dead-reckoning
mode without feedback - after all, the precision required is at least an
order of magnitude less than that required for the data side - then my
idea could work; if the LightScribe software still needed something to
latch onto, then probably not. (And might explain why "pirate"
LightScribe blanks didn't appear, as well.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is.
Paul
2018-05-16 17:34:57 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I wonder if my idea of a spray-on coating - for the labelling side, to
avoid any doubt - has any legs! The chemical could be made _more_
sensitive than lightscribe discs, if it was a two-part process
involving a "fixing" spray to be applied afterwards (either to block
the relevant wavelength, or to stop further change in the chemical, as
in photographic fixers. [Or both.])
[]
I've just had a further thought, though: did LightScribe discs have at
least some tracking info on the label side? I'd always assumed their
only difference to non-LightScribe discs was some extra chemical on the
label side. But I got to wondering how the tracking mechanism was
persuaded to work. If it could be constrained to work in dead-reckoning
mode without feedback - after all, the precision required is at least an
order of magnitude less than that required for the data side - then my
idea could work; if the LightScribe software still needed something to
latch onto, then probably not. (And might explain why "pirate"
LightScribe blanks didn't appear, as well.)
You would probably need an index mark of some sort, to
support multiple passes. And to align one "ring" of pixels
with the next. Perhaps this is the "control zone" in the picture ?

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=13449&PageId=1

Paul
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-05-16 19:12:08 UTC
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In message <pdhq43$2cj$***@dont-email.me>, Paul <***@needed.invalid>
writes:
[]
Post by Paul
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I've just had a further thought, though: did LightScribe discs have
at least some tracking info on the label side? I'd always assumed
their only difference to non-LightScribe discs was some extra
chemical on the label side. But I got to wondering how the tracking
mechanism was persuaded to work. If it could be constrained to work
in dead-reckoning mode without feedback - after all, the precision
required is at least an order of magnitude less than that required
for the data side - then my idea could work; if the LightScribe
software still needed something to latch onto, then probably not.
(And might explain why "pirate" LightScribe blanks didn't appear, as well.)
You would probably need an index mark of some sort, to
support multiple passes. And to align one "ring" of pixels
with the next. Perhaps this is the "control zone" in the picture ?
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=13449&PageId=1
Paul
Thanks. "The media ID code can be read on both sides of the media. If a
non LightScribe disc is inserted in a LightScribe drive, it recognizes
the media features and disables LightScribe media." Which suggests - if
non-LightScribe media can be recognised - that the ID code _isn't_
specially written on both sides.

"The control feature zone is used by the burner to control at which spot
it will focus the laser (index mark). This means that if you want to
reprint a disc label, the drive will automatically rotate the disc and
align it to the same point of origin every time and hence will always
print at the same spot as before. So, you can print the same label more
than once on the same disc, to achieve better printing quality." This
suggests you can actually take a disc out to see how the label has come
out, and put it back in for another go: such an "index mark" principle
could then be used with my spray-on coating idea.

"There is no track spiral or other tracking aid." So that's another
reason why my spray-on could work (-:!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

By the very definition of "news," we hear very little about the dominant
threats to our lives, and the most about the rarest, including terror.
"LibertyMcG" alias Brian P. McGlinchey, 2013-7-23
Diesel
2018-05-16 06:55:38 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Although I made sure it had lightscribe ability when I bought the
(external) drive, I've never actually had any such discs.
Hmm. All of my burners are lightscribe capable. I've used the feature
one time with one of them...While it was cool enough I suppose, the
time and funny smell from doing it wasn't worth it in the long run to
me. I'll just stick to a sharpie.
--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit here:
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
===================================================
An Emergency Call Centre worker has been fired in Toronto much to the
dismay of her colleagues, who were unhappy with her dismissal.
It seems that a caller dialled 911 from a cell phone stating, "I'm
depressed and lying on a railway line so that when the train comes I
can finally meet Allah."
To which the call centre employee replied, "Remain calm and stay on the
line."
pjp
2018-05-17 02:22:02 UTC
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Post by Diesel
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Although I made sure it had lightscribe ability when I bought the
(external) drive, I've never actually had any such discs.
Hmm. All of my burners are lightscribe capable. I've used the feature
one time with one of them...While it was cool enough I suppose, the
time and funny smell from doing it wasn't worth it in the long run to
me. I'll just stick to a sharpie.
I made a little music cd of myself playing guitar. Lghtscribe was nice
for giving friends a copy as it made disk look very professionally done.
I think with the lables they're obviously a label and therefore not so
nice. I used software called SureThing CD Labeler to do it. Worked fine
but it's not free.

Burn music in uder 5 minutes, turn disk over and burn label/image takes
more like 20 min. but it comes out looking like you expect and is more
or less permanent.
Diesel
2018-05-17 06:26:51 UTC
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Post by pjp
says...
Post by Diesel
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Although I made sure it had lightscribe ability when I bought
the (external) drive, I've never actually had any such discs.
Hmm. All of my burners are lightscribe capable. I've used the
feature one time with one of them...While it was cool enough I
suppose, the time and funny smell from doing it wasn't worth it
in the long run to me. I'll just stick to a sharpie.
I made a little music cd of myself playing guitar. Lghtscribe was
nice for giving friends a copy as it made disk look very
professionally done. I think with the lables they're obviously a
label and therefore not so nice. I used software called SureThing
CD Labeler to do it. Worked fine but it's not free.
Burn music in uder 5 minutes, turn disk over and burn label/image
takes more like 20 min. but it comes out looking like you expect
and is more or less permanent.
I wasn't knocking lightscribe. It does result in more professional
looking work than using a printed label. If I were making discs I
intended to distribute, I'd likely go that route myself; so long as
the discs were of a small amount. :)

In my case, the majority of the discs I burn aren't intended for
distribution, so a Sharpie usually does the trick. It's quite
possible the Sharpie will fade over time, but that's generally okay
due to the contents becoming outdated long before then.
--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit here:
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
===================================================
"You might show me a little more respect" complained the coed as she
and her date were driving back from "Lover's Lookout".
"Yeah?" asked the smirking boy, "Like by doing what?"
"Well, for starters, not flying my panty hose from your radio
aerial."
Ant
2018-05-17 23:35:55 UTC
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Post by Diesel
I wasn't knocking lightscribe. It does result in more professional
looking work than using a printed label. If I were making discs I
intended to distribute, I'd likely go that route myself; so long as
the discs were of a small amount. :)
In my case, the majority of the discs I burn aren't intended for
distribution, so a Sharpie usually does the trick. It's quite
possible the Sharpie will fade over time, but that's generally okay
due to the contents becoming outdated long before then.
Same here. I'm cheap too!
--
Quote of the Week: "The fact that we can't easily foresee clues that
would betray an intelligence a million millennia farther down the road
suggests that we're like ants trying to discover humans. Ask yourself:
Would ants ever recognize houses, cars, or fire hydrants as the work of
advanced biology?" --Seth Shostak
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
| |o o| | ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and URL/link.
\ _ /
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Diesel
2018-05-18 05:01:47 UTC
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Post by Ant
Post by Diesel
I wasn't knocking lightscribe. It does result in more professional
looking work than using a printed label. If I were making discs I
intended to distribute, I'd likely go that route myself; so long as
the discs were of a small amount. :)
In my case, the majority of the discs I burn aren't intended for
distribution, so a Sharpie usually does the trick. It's quite
possible the Sharpie will fade over time, but that's generally okay
due to the contents becoming outdated long before then.
Same here. I'm cheap too!
:)
--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit here:
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
===================================================
Government is the great fiction whereby everyone endeavors to live at
the expense of everyone else
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-05-17 10:13:04 UTC
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[]
Post by pjp
Post by Diesel
Hmm. All of my burners are lightscribe capable. I've used the feature
one time with one of them...While it was cool enough I suppose, the
time and funny smell from doing it wasn't worth it in the long run to
me. I'll just stick to a sharpie.
I made a little music cd of myself playing guitar. Lghtscribe was nice
for giving friends a copy as it made disk look very professionally done.
I think with the lables they're obviously a label and therefore not so
nice. I used software called SureThing CD Labeler to do it. Worked fine
but it's not free.
Burn music in uder 5 minutes, turn disk over and burn label/image takes
more like 20 min. but it comes out looking like you expect and is more
or less permanent.
Still available, and still supports LightScribe; $20 to £35 (less 5¢).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Veni Vidi Visa [I came, I saw, I did a little shopping] - Mik from S+AS Limited
(***@saslimited.demon.co.uk), 1998
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-05-17 10:48:20 UTC
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[]
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by pjp
nice. I used software called SureThing CD Labeler to do it. Worked fine
but it's not free.
Burn music in uder 5 minutes, turn disk over and burn label/image takes
more like 20 min. but it comes out looking like you expect and is more
or less permanent.
Still available, and still supports LightScribe; $20 to £35 (less 5¢).
The original free software is currently available from
https://lightscribesoftware.org/, along with other not-free software
(including 650 original templates, originally free now $9.95).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Veni Vidi Visa [I came, I saw, I did a little shopping] - Mik from S+AS Limited
(***@saslimited.demon.co.uk), 1998
Wolf K
2018-05-15 12:48:53 UTC
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Post by pjp
Post by Wildman
Post by pjp
says...
Post by Shadow
On Sun, 13 May 2018 02:31:44 -0300, pjp
Post by pjp
Well I for one am counting on cd's and dvd's to last a very long time if
properly stored. I have literally thousands of them as I make backup
copies of pretty much everything passes thru my hands. I also have a
very very large library of music and videos all backed up onto optical
disk that are backups basicly to the two copies I keep of most of it on
portable/external separate hard disks (movies also get burned as
standard playable dvd). The optical disks are kept stored in cases in a
cabinet except for the most common ones used a lot, e.g. Windows
install/backup disks etc. I validate every disk when burned and I have
yet to have one I can't read ... yet.
I exclusively use writable disks for backup. I find re-writables can't
be trusted and I use them only for my hardware dvd recorder for
"taping' tv. If I want to keep that I rip it using the pc.
+1 on everything you wrote, except that I no longer use CDs,
DVDs are cheaper. I go by brand names, like HP, Philips and Sony and
very, very rarely get a coaster.
[]'
Yes I also use almost ezclusively use dvd's now. I notice when you see
them cd's are now more expensive than dvd's and even dvd's are getting
less common to find with restricted choices. I suspect soon I'll end up
buying 5-10 stacks of 100 just to insure I have them. Real drag I can't
find any more Lightscribe cd's or DVD's anymore. I believe they stopped
https://www.amazon.com/lightscribe-discs/s?page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Alightscribe%20discs
Prices are rediculous. They used to be like 10% pricier over normal
disks is all.
Prices in part are based on market size. Lightscribe is a niche market.
Smaller market == larger cost per unit made, is all. It never caught on
because you have to have a specialised CD/DVD writer.
--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and
what is right to do. Potter Stewart
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-05-15 13:26:19 UTC
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[]
Post by Wolf K
Post by pjp
Post by Wildman
Post by pjp
buying 5-10 stacks of 100 just to insure I have them. Real drag I can't
find any more Lightscribe cd's or DVD's anymore. I believe they stopped
https://www.amazon.com/lightscribe-discs/s?page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Alig
htscribe%20discs
Prices are rediculous. They used to be like 10% pricier over normal
disks is all.
Prices in part are based on market size. Lightscribe is a niche market.
Smaller market == larger cost per unit made, is all. It never caught on
because you have to have a specialised CD/DVD writer.
Yes, but there came a point where the majority of drives _did_ have the
capability. (I don't know if it has reverted now. Certainly the above
link included a couple of drives on the first page.) I suspect nowadays
the problem would be finding the relevant label design/drive driver
softwares, to run on current OSs (of course, the drives tended not to
come with any CD), though I haven't actually looked.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'evidence'. Professor Edzart Ernst, prudential
magazine, AUTUMN 2006, p. 13.
Big Al
2018-05-15 14:51:04 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Wolf K
Post by Wildman
Post by pjp
buying 5-10 stacks of 100 just to insure I have them. Real drag I can't
find any more Lightscribe cd's or DVD's anymore. I believe they stopped
https://www.amazon.com/lightscribe-discs/s?page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Alig
htscribe%20discs
 Prices are rediculous. They used to be like 10% pricier over normal
disks is all.
Prices in part are based on market size. Lightscribe is a niche
market. Smaller market == larger cost per unit made, is all. It never
caught on because you have to have a specialised CD/DVD writer.
Yes, but there came a point where the majority of drives _did_ have the
capability. (I don't know if it has reverted now. Certainly the above
link included a couple of drives on the first page.) I suspect nowadays
the problem would be finding the relevant label design/drive driver
softwares, to run on current OSs (of course, the drives tended not to
come with any CD), though I haven't actually looked.
I'm kinda glad I went to printable CDs DVDs. It becomes a function of
the printer and not the drive and my Canon does it great.
Paul
2018-05-15 21:02:56 UTC
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Post by Wolf K
Post by pjp
Post by Wildman
Post by pjp
says...
Post by Shadow
On Sun, 13 May 2018 02:31:44 -0300, pjp
Post by pjp
Well I for one am counting on cd's and dvd's to last a very long time if
properly stored. I have literally thousands of them as I make backup
copies of pretty much everything passes thru my hands. I also have a
very very large library of music and videos all backed up onto optical
disk that are backups basicly to the two copies I keep of most of it on
portable/external separate hard disks (movies also get burned as
standard playable dvd). The optical disks are kept stored in cases in a
cabinet except for the most common ones used a lot, e.g. Windows
install/backup disks etc. I validate every disk when burned and I have
yet to have one I can't read ... yet.
I exclusively use writable disks for backup. I find re-writables can't
be trusted and I use them only for my hardware dvd recorder for
"taping' tv. If I want to keep that I rip it using the pc.
+1 on everything you wrote, except that I no longer use CDs,
DVDs are cheaper. I go by brand names, like HP, Philips and Sony and
very, very rarely get a coaster.
[]'
Yes I also use almost ezclusively use dvd's now. I notice when you see
them cd's are now more expensive than dvd's and even dvd's are getting
less common to find with restricted choices. I suspect soon I'll end up
buying 5-10 stacks of 100 just to insure I have them. Real drag I can't
find any more Lightscribe cd's or DVD's anymore. I believe they stopped
https://www.amazon.com/lightscribe-discs/s?page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Alightscribe%20discs
Prices are rediculous. They used to be like 10% pricier over normal
disks is all.
Prices in part are based on market size. Lightscribe is a niche market.
Smaller market == larger cost per unit made, is all. It never caught on
because you have to have a specialised CD/DVD writer.
It's worse than that. The "owner" of LightScribe has exited
the market. It's probably used under license, and who knows
what licenses are still valid. It's a supply problem, brought
on by "legal details".

HP should hold some key patents on LightScribe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightscribe

http://www8.hp.com/us/en/hp-news/press-release.html?id=171639

"HP already has several formal IP licensing efforts underway. They include:

* LightScribe, a technology that uses standard optical drives
to print labels on CDs and DVDs;

* DVD+RW, a format for writeable DVDs;
"

In business, "caught on" hardly matters. It's the per-unit
cost that determine the life or death of ideas. If adding
LightScribe required paying a $0.01 royalty, the technology
would disappear over night. Companies aren't even willing
to "do the math" and figure out the value proposition,
they are that adverse to licensing fees. This is why
DisplayPort was invented, because nobody wanted to pay
for HDMI. This is why Firewire disappeared, because there
was a licensing fee, whereas I don't think USB has a fee
(to the best of my knowledge).

To give an example, my company held patents, and one (unnamed)
company refused to pay around $2 million owing. We had to
chase them through the courts. The only problem with the
idea was, there could have been half a billion dollars
worth of business blocked by this "legal snit", and
a project I was working on was canceled, because the
company in question was the sole source of the key
parts for what I was building. People will go to
extra-ordinary nonsensical lengths, to avoid paying
a royalty... to anyone.

"All this legal stuff sucks... he said"

Paul
Diesel
2018-05-16 06:55:37 UTC
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Post by Paul
Post by Ed Cryer
I've been sorting out a box of old discs from twenty years ago,
Windows 95 days. There were about a hundred in two CD wallets,
stored in a back bedroom, unheated in winter. Ten of them I kept,
and I've been examining these on this Win7 computer.
Everything I've tried is readable, utterly readable and
executable; and that includes CD-Rs and DVD-Rs burnt elsewhere.
¡Viva Win7! ¡Y vivant discos viejos!
Ed
Some of the older re-writeable discs weren't that stable.
I had one Memorex CDRW disc that went "transparent" in
about three months. Of course Memorex doesn't make the
media, and just bought lots of blanks from the lowest
bidder. Verbatim on the other hand, seemed to test what
they were selling, and the media tags would indicate
quality sources for the discs. Quality sources
might be Taiyo Yuden or Ritek.
Verbatim and Ritek i've been a happy user of for years. Verbatim for
much much longer... As in, 5.25 floppy days, on a non PC compatible.
I wouldn't say that I'm brand loyal so much as I'm confident in the
product itself. I've still got floppies that were last written to
when I was a kid! And, the data (as of the last time I checked) was
still intact. Completely useless mind you, but, all still there. :)
Post by Paul
There used to be two forums that did nothing but
discuss optical discs and burning, and you could
get good info there on which medias were good and
bad, as they'd do error scans to see which is which.
I think I know the two forums you're referencing...Those were also
the days when making coasters got expensive fast; the media wasn't
cheaply priced. And, back then, most of the created storage media
just wasn't all that good quality wise. Which led to coasters and
premature loss of data down the road in some cases when they did
succesfully burn. if I'm not mistaken, they also discussed the
physical quality of the media in so far as slight scratch resistance.
Post by Paul
*******
The write-once stuff should be more stable.
There's no reason a -R won't work.
It has a lot to do with chemistry.
Aye.
--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit here:
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
===================================================
An Emergency Call Centre worker has been fired in Toronto much to the
dismay of her colleagues, who were unhappy with her dismissal.
It seems that a caller dialled 911 from a cell phone stating, "I'm
depressed and lying on a railway line so that when the train comes I
can finally meet Allah."
To which the call centre employee replied, "Remain calm and stay on
the line."
David E. Ross
2018-05-11 18:25:25 UTC
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Post by Ed Cryer
I've been sorting out a box of old discs from twenty years ago, Windows
95 days. There were about a hundred in two CD wallets, stored in a back
bedroom, unheated in winter. Ten of them I kept, and I've been examining
these on this Win7 computer.
Everything I've tried is readable, utterly readable and executable; and
that includes CD-Rs and DVD-Rs burnt elsewhere.
¡Viva Win7! ¡Y vivant discos viejos!
Ed
I take old discs that I no longer want, drill a very small hole near the
edge, and hang them with kite twine from the branches of my fruit trees
just before the fruit is ripe. As the discs turn and flash in the
sunlight, they tend to keep birds away from my fruit.
--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

First you say you do, and then you don't.
And then you say you will, but then won't.
You're undecided now, so what're you goin' to do?
From a 1950s song
That should be Donald Trump's theme song. He obviously
does not understand "commitment", whether it is about
policy or marriage.
Ed Cryer
2018-05-11 19:32:44 UTC
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Post by David E. Ross
Post by Ed Cryer
I've been sorting out a box of old discs from twenty years ago, Windows
95 days. There were about a hundred in two CD wallets, stored in a back
bedroom, unheated in winter. Ten of them I kept, and I've been examining
these on this Win7 computer.
Everything I've tried is readable, utterly readable and executable; and
that includes CD-Rs and DVD-Rs burnt elsewhere.
¡Viva Win7! ¡Y vivant discos viejos!
Ed
I take old discs that I no longer want, drill a very small hole near the
edge, and hang them with kite twine from the branches of my fruit trees
just before the fruit is ripe. As the discs turn and flash in the
sunlight, they tend to keep birds away from my fruit.
Cool! That's a nice change from using them as coasters.

Ed
Char Jackson
2018-05-12 17:53:54 UTC
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Post by Ed Cryer
Post by David E. Ross
Post by Ed Cryer
I've been sorting out a box of old discs from twenty years ago, Windows
95 days. There were about a hundred in two CD wallets, stored in a back
bedroom, unheated in winter. Ten of them I kept, and I've been examining
these on this Win7 computer.
Everything I've tried is readable, utterly readable and executable; and
that includes CD-Rs and DVD-Rs burnt elsewhere.
¡Viva Win7! ¡Y vivant discos viejos!
Ed
I take old discs that I no longer want, drill a very small hole near the
edge, and hang them with kite twine from the branches of my fruit trees
just before the fruit is ripe. As the discs turn and flash in the
sunlight, they tend to keep birds away from my fruit.
Cool! That's a nice change from using them as coasters.
I remember back in the 90's hearing the "coaster" reference being
applied to AOL CDs and bad burns, both of which were fairly common back
then. I set an ice cold beer on an AOL CD and it very quickly became
apparent that optical discs don't make good coasters. So yeah, I fell
for the trick, but just once.

They actually do make good clock faces, though. Clock movements are just
a few dollars, and there's no end to the customizations you can apply.
That, too, is a fad that has come and gone. Flea markets used to be
brimming with CD clocks, but now I can't remember the last time I've
seen one.
--
Char Jackson
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