Discussion:
Getting Windows 7 Updates Without Being Forced to Windows 10
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Gene Wirchenko
2017-02-15 17:54:03 UTC
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Dear Win7ers:

The forced "upgrades" of Windows 7 systems to Windows 10 has me
concerned. I have not installed Windows upgrades for months now.

I am still concerned that Microsoft is going to try another
forcing. What I read in trade articles is not clear.

Does anyone have better data?

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
VanguardLH
2017-02-15 18:34:32 UTC
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Post by Gene Wirchenko
The forced "upgrades" of Windows 7 systems to Windows 10 has me
concerned. I have not installed Windows upgrades for months now.
I am still concerned that Microsoft is going to try another
forcing. What I read in trade articles is not clear.
There are products to thwart GWX, like GWX Control Panel (the one that I
use but there are others, like Never 10 but that one only performs one
of GWX Control Panel's options). Those monitor for updates that you
attempt to install that include GWX (Get Windows 10). Another method,
if you have a non-Home edition of Windows so you have the policy editor
(unless you're willing to directly edit the registry since all policies
are registry entries), if to define a SRP (Software Restriction Policy)
that bars the execution of gwx.exe. Find where it got deposited and
create a Path rule for it. Disallow it. Now Windows will prevent GWX
from loading. Alternatively, you can create a registry entry to block
gwx.exe from loading (but that means you are allowing its install but
then neutering it). Of course, you are telling asking the burgler to
not burgle your home; i.e., you rely on a policy in Microsoft's Windows
to effect control over Microsoft's GWX. The following blog touches on
some in-built methods to block GWX:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/j7cmnec

You are the one doing the updating so you should be reviewing each
update that isn't obvious what it does (which is a lot of them). Don't
just swallow what Microsoft shoves into your mouth. Take little bites.
Decide which updates to allow by looking at them. If allocate the role
of admin to yourself then you get the joy of doing the admin's duties.
You can be sloppy or you can be tight in regulating what updates get
installed in Windows 7. Not so with Windows 10 where the best you get
is to delay all of them or not accept some which means not getting any
more later.

If the Microsoft KB article linked to an update is missing or too vague,
you can often search on the KBxxxxxx number to see what others have
found. There is also the http://www.askwoody.com/ site that reviews or
exposes what many updates will do. However, the guy isn't infallible.
Just now he is guessing why nothing showed up on Patch Tuesday. What
I've heard is that Microsoft is delaying the updates for some critical
ones they want to include (see http://preview.tinyurl.com/jjyuxjv), like
an in-the-wild vulnerability with SMB. May not affect you but it is
used (see http://preview.tinyurl.com/zemvdz3).

I turn off Windows Updates until I am prepared for them (have the time
to install and possibly have to reboot, have image backups, and simply
feel like I want to do them). No, I don't just disable auto updates in
the WU client because that has been shown to still allow updates. I
disable the BITS and WU services. Not until *I* am ready do I reenable
those service and then use the WU client to determine if new updates for
my Windows instance are available and then I review each one. Often I
end up hiding an update, like those regarding the Experience telemetrics
crap to give Microsoft info about your deployment of Windows.

You do save image backups and have them scheduled (not just manually
instigated) at periodic intervals, right? While I use GWX Control Panel
and review each update, something might slip by. The easy to back out
of an unwanted change is to restore from a backup. Not, I'm not talking
about System Restore but real backups.
Gene Wirchenko
2017-02-16 00:30:31 UTC
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Post by VanguardLH
Post by Gene Wirchenko
The forced "upgrades" of Windows 7 systems to Windows 10 has me
concerned. I have not installed Windows upgrades for months now.
I am still concerned that Microsoft is going to try another
forcing. What I read in trade articles is not clear.
There are products to thwart GWX, like GWX Control Panel (the one that I
use but there are others, like Never 10 but that one only performs one
of GWX Control Panel's options). Those monitor for updates that you
I have GWX Control Panel installed. I am still leery. Microsoft
might update their updating to get past it.

[snip]
Post by VanguardLH
You are the one doing the updating so you should be reviewing each
update that isn't obvious what it does (which is a lot of them). Don't
Yes, it is a lot of them. I do not want to spend a lot of time
on reviewing either.
Post by VanguardLH
just swallow what Microsoft shoves into your mouth. Take little bites.
I have not been. I am wondering if I can safely swallow.

[snip]

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
Paul
2017-02-15 18:43:55 UTC
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Post by Gene Wirchenko
The forced "upgrades" of Windows 7 systems to Windows 10 has me
concerned. I have not installed Windows upgrades for months now.
I am still concerned that Microsoft is going to try another
forcing. What I read in trade articles is not clear.
Does anyone have better data?
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Not going to happen.

People like you will be handled by attrition.
You'll be going to the Best Buy soon, and buying
a brand new PC with (only) Win10 available. Job done.

Every business plan, must have the word "profit"
as the last item in the list.

What do we know ?

1) Microsoft likes the way Apple plays. While Microsoft
doesn't have the mindshare, they will not be dissuaded
from copying the approach of a competitor.

2) Apple has an App Store, with a sweet markup. Microsoft
has an App Store with a sweet markup.

3) Microsoft wants to turn your desktop, into the worlds
largest SmartPhone. With icons the size of Wyoming as
a feature. Desktop features will "disappear", as part of
the Frog Boiling campaign. The idea is, the rolling
Win10 release, allows the OS to be changed gradually.
Where can the customers escape to ? That is the question.

4) Everyone knows a "walled garden is more secure". What
better way to do that, than have an OS where all the
applications must come from an App Store with a 30%
markup.

Now, just follow the dots. Remember, any picture you
draw, must have the word "profit" at the bottom. How
can you make Microsoft a profit ? A monthly charge
for Enterprise users is workable. For the rest, the
App Store seems to be the best option. The consumer
market is cost-sensitive enough, that the Enterprise
charging would scare them away. (Even $7 a month would
scare them away.)

And the transition must be gradual enough, that none
of the frogs jump out of the boiling water, until it
is too late.

And we know how dopey the user population is, when
we have reports of users "who did not know they had
been upgraded to Windows 10". There is no hope for the
world, when people lack the ability to see the differences.
Nevertheless, those are the Frogs which will be
boiled in the Large Pot that Microsoft is preparing.

Every business plan must have "Profit" as the last line.
If they won't tell us their plan, it's easy enough
to extrapolate. Either "rent the OS" or "lock to App Store".
Those are the options. They seem to have abandoned the
conventional "Charge for new OS" model, as "Not Apple Enough".
And everything Apple does, must be right.

Paul
mike
2017-02-15 19:44:06 UTC
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Post by Paul
Post by Gene Wirchenko
The forced "upgrades" of Windows 7 systems to Windows 10 has me
concerned. I have not installed Windows upgrades for months now.
I am still concerned that Microsoft is going to try another
forcing. What I read in trade articles is not clear.
Does anyone have better data?
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Not going to happen.
People like you will be handled by attrition.
You'll be going to the Best Buy soon, and buying
a brand new PC with (only) Win10 available. Job done.
Every business plan, must have the word "profit"
as the last item in the list.
What do we know ?
1) Microsoft likes the way Apple plays. While Microsoft
doesn't have the mindshare, they will not be dissuaded
from copying the approach of a competitor.
2) Apple has an App Store, with a sweet markup. Microsoft
has an App Store with a sweet markup.
3) Microsoft wants to turn your desktop, into the worlds
largest SmartPhone. With icons the size of Wyoming as
a feature. Desktop features will "disappear", as part of
the Frog Boiling campaign. The idea is, the rolling
Win10 release, allows the OS to be changed gradually.
Where can the customers escape to ? That is the question.
4) Everyone knows a "walled garden is more secure". What
better way to do that, than have an OS where all the
applications must come from an App Store with a 30%
markup.
Now, just follow the dots. Remember, any picture you
draw, must have the word "profit" at the bottom. How
can you make Microsoft a profit ? A monthly charge
for Enterprise users is workable. For the rest, the
App Store seems to be the best option. The consumer
market is cost-sensitive enough, that the Enterprise
charging would scare them away. (Even $7 a month would
scare them away.)
And the transition must be gradual enough, that none
of the frogs jump out of the boiling water, until it
is too late.
And we know how dopey the user population is, when
we have reports of users "who did not know they had
been upgraded to Windows 10". There is no hope for the
world, when people lack the ability to see the differences.
Nevertheless, those are the Frogs which will be
boiled in the Large Pot that Microsoft is preparing.
Every business plan must have "Profit" as the last line.
If they won't tell us their plan, it's easy enough
to extrapolate. Either "rent the OS" or "lock to App Store".
Those are the options. They seem to have abandoned the
conventional "Charge for new OS" model, as "Not Apple Enough".
And everything Apple does, must be right.
Paul
I'd disagree with that. Any BUSINESS plan that doesn't have
PROFIT as the FIRST line isn't worth reading.
SteveGG
2017-06-17 12:18:39 UTC
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Just updated my 7, and haven't seen any push to 10.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-06-17 13:21:31 UTC
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Post by SteveGG
Just updated my 7, and haven't seen any push to 10.
The "free 10" stopped about a year ago, to a first approximation (some
hints you could still get it if you used the disability route).

The "push"es will still continue, of course, just taking the form of
words to the effect of "you're not still running that ancient OS, are
you? All sorts of things are going to stop working under it and besides,
things are so much nicer here in nice warm 10ville". But the _free_
upgrade is no more - you have to buy it now (or, as they'd prefer, buy a
new computer).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

You can tell that you are getting old when typing VCR into a document [results
that the spell checker] wants to change it to Vicar.
- Brian Gaff in uk.tech.broadcast, 2016-3-6
Stan Brown
2017-06-17 16:45:18 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by SteveGG
Just updated my 7, and haven't seen any push to 10.
The "free 10" stopped about a year ago, to a first approximation (some
hints you could still get it if you used the disability route).
Isn't SteveGG just another avatar of "Good Guy"?
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://BrownMath.com/
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
Shikata ga nai...
Paul
2017-06-17 16:57:19 UTC
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Post by Stan Brown
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by SteveGG
Just updated my 7, and haven't seen any push to 10.
The "free 10" stopped about a year ago, to a first approximation (some
hints you could still get it if you used the disability route).
Isn't SteveGG just another avatar of "Good Guy"?
That individual was around in years past.

But wasn't like he is today.

Give Google groups a spin. He uses the same email
in the header, for your convenience.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/giannoni$20steve$20optonline/alt.math/c7M6nx0ZRBs/QHpIkqSjXesJ

And that's just the first hit I got in a search.

In the "old days", we could get a profile, and a
posting history (i.e. number of posts per month),
but Google removed all that. So you can't work up
as good of a picture as you used to be able to.

Someone on a "real" USENET server, one with a deep
history, and the right client software, could work
up an excellent profile (given enough time). There is
a guy who wrote his own (private) news client, who
has that sort of capability.

Paul

D***@MadCow.net
2017-02-15 21:08:48 UTC
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Post by Paul
Post by Gene Wirchenko
The forced "upgrades" of Windows 7 systems to Windows 10 has me
concerned. I have not installed Windows upgrades for months now.
I am still concerned that Microsoft is going to try another
forcing. What I read in trade articles is not clear.
Does anyone have better data?
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Not going to happen.
People like you will be handled by attrition.
You'll be going to the Best Buy soon, and buying
a brand new PC with (only) Win10 available. Job done.
Every business plan, must have the word "profit"
as the last item in the list.
What do we know ?
1) Microsoft likes the way Apple plays. While Microsoft
doesn't have the mindshare, they will not be dissuaded
from copying the approach of a competitor.
2) Apple has an App Store, with a sweet markup. Microsoft
has an App Store with a sweet markup.
3) Microsoft wants to turn your desktop, into the worlds
largest SmartPhone. With icons the size of Wyoming as
a feature. Desktop features will "disappear", as part of
the Frog Boiling campaign. The idea is, the rolling
Win10 release, allows the OS to be changed gradually.
Where can the customers escape to ? That is the question.
4) Everyone knows a "walled garden is more secure". What
better way to do that, than have an OS where all the
applications must come from an App Store with a 30%
markup.
Now, just follow the dots. Remember, any picture you
draw, must have the word "profit" at the bottom. How
can you make Microsoft a profit ? A monthly charge
for Enterprise users is workable. For the rest, the
App Store seems to be the best option. The consumer
market is cost-sensitive enough, that the Enterprise
charging would scare them away. (Even $7 a month would
scare them away.)
And the transition must be gradual enough, that none
of the frogs jump out of the boiling water, until it
is too late.
And we know how dopey the user population is, when
we have reports of users "who did not know they had
been upgraded to Windows 10". There is no hope for the
world, when people lack the ability to see the differences.
Nevertheless, those are the Frogs which will be
boiled in the Large Pot that Microsoft is preparing.
Every business plan must have "Profit" as the last line.
If they won't tell us their plan, it's easy enough
to extrapolate. Either "rent the OS" or "lock to App Store".
Those are the options. They seem to have abandoned the
conventional "Charge for new OS" model, as "Not Apple Enough".
And everything Apple does, must be right.
Paul
Awesome assessment, Paul. I love it!

DC
Z
2017-02-15 21:58:10 UTC
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Post by Paul
Not going to happen.
People like you will be handled by attrition.
You'll be going to the Best Buy soon, and buying
a brand new PC with (only) Win10 available. Job done.
Two words: Linux Mint. Job done.
Gene Wirchenko
2017-02-16 00:31:23 UTC
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Post by Z
Post by Paul
Not going to happen.
People like you will be handled by attrition.
You'll be going to the Best Buy soon, and buying
a brand new PC with (only) Win10 available. Job done.
Two words: Linux Mint. Job done.
At some point, I may just jump from Microsoft. I do some
programming in a language that is Microsoft-only so I am stuck for
now.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
VanguardLH
2017-02-16 10:19:13 UTC
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At some point, I may just jump from Microsoft. I do some programming
in a language that is Microsoft-only so I am stuck for now.
I'm not a Linux proselytizer. I typically say to use the best platform
for whatever is the task, not pick an OS and then see if there is
software to perform the task. At work, I have to deal with many
different OSes. At home, I have picked Windows, so far. However, with
the Windows 8 debacle and with Windows 10 being the last "version" of
that OS but it will gradually evolve into a different feature set and
behaviors (incrementalism works very well), I've been putting off a
choice for a new OS for much longer than expected. I may have to decide
to give up on the much wider choice of games and look at substitutes for
all the software that I currently use - which means looking for
cross-platform apps which also means I'm likely to switch to some
variant of Linux (e.g., Mint, Zorin OS, Kubuntu).

It isn't me making the choice. It is Microsoft making it for me. When
the milk gets too sour, time to replace it. Frankly, other than video
games, there isn't anything I use now on Windows that doesn't have an
equivalent on Linux (and some of it is free). I'll probably wait
another 2 years for my Office 365 subscription to expire while saving up
for a new build. New computer means new choices. In a couple years, I
don't see Windows 10 being a choice.
Good Guy
2017-02-15 22:26:15 UTC
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Post by Gene Wirchenko
The forced "upgrades" of Windows 7 systems to Windows 10 has me
concerned. I have not installed Windows upgrades for months now.
I am still concerned that Microsoft is going to try another
forcing. What I read in trade articles is not clear.
Does anyone have better data?
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Get a life Wirchenko. There is no free Windows 10 for most people
unless you claim to be mentally sick and so require assistive technology
to fulfil your life like any normal human being!!!.

You will need to buy a new machine with Windows 10 sooner rather than
later as software makers have stopped making software for old OSs.
--
If you want to filter all of my posts then please read this article:
<https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/organize-your-messages-using-filters>
In step 7 select "Delete"

With over 500 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.
Paul in Houston TX
2017-02-16 00:16:31 UTC
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Post by Gene Wirchenko
The forced "upgrades" of Windows 7 systems to Windows 10 has me
concerned. I have not installed Windows upgrades for months now.
I am still concerned that Microsoft is going to try another
forcing. What I read in trade articles is not clear.
Does anyone have better data?
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
I stopped updating around July or Aug 2016 when MS came out with the
monthly rollups with unknown contents.
For years I looked at every upgrade offered and found that 99% were
useless and the 1:100 that I kept was unnecessary.
Gene Wirchenko
2017-02-16 17:44:45 UTC
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Post by Paul in Houston TX
Post by Gene Wirchenko
The forced "upgrades" of Windows 7 systems to Windows 10 has me
concerned. I have not installed Windows upgrades for months now.
I am still concerned that Microsoft is going to try another
forcing. What I read in trade articles is not clear.
Does anyone have better data?
I stopped updating around July or Aug 2016 when MS came out with the
monthly rollups with unknown contents.
For years I looked at every upgrade offered and found that 99% were
useless and the 1:100 that I kept was unnecessary.
That is around when I stopped, too.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
Nil
2017-02-16 19:40:53 UTC
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On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 18:16:31 -0600, Paul in Houston TX
Post by Paul in Houston TX
I stopped updating around July or Aug 2016 when MS came out with
the monthly rollups with unknown contents.
That is around when I stopped, too.
Me three - I no longer update. I look at new updates sometimes, but as
far as I can tell, there is nothing new being presented to Windows 7
that will make my computer any better or safer than it already is. Of
course, it's a little hard to tell any more because Microsoft now
intentionally obscures the descriptions of all updates.
chicagofan
2017-02-18 15:35:01 UTC
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Post by Nil
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 18:16:31 -0600, Paul in Houston TX
Post by Paul in Houston TX
I stopped updating around July or Aug 2016 when MS came out with
the monthly rollups with unknown contents.
That is around when I stopped, too.
Me three - I no longer update. I look at new updates sometimes, but as
far as I can tell, there is nothing new being presented to Windows 7
that will make my computer any better or safer than it already is. Of
course, it's a little hard to tell any more because Microsoft now
intentionally obscures the descriptions of all updates.
Me four - I stopped as soon as it became obvious what they were doing.
I didn't have hours to seek info on what the updates were actually
doing. I figured I would be able to use Win7 longer if I avoided their
"help". When they finally make it impossible to use Win7 somehow, I
will be moving on to something else ... NOT Windows perpetual rent
cycle, and beginning Win10 smartphone design.
bj
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