Discussion:
Samsung SSD into Lenovo T500
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Freemantle
2018-06-23 18:52:15 UTC
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Lenovo T500 laptop

Got a new Samsung 256G SSD
Installed latest Samsung migration software on to T500.
Plugged SSD into USB adapter to SSD and into T500 USB2 port.
Adapter is A/C powered.

Ran Samsung migration.
Cloned C: and D:
Ran OK, Said verified.
Took several hours.

Replace T500 HDD with SSD.

Boot ends immediately with disk error.

Made sure SSD was seated properly. No luck.

BIOS shows the Samsung as first boot device. Started BIOS disk check
and ran for a while with no errors so stopped.

Put HDD back in and all is working with HDD. Boots OK.

Retried all above and again, took hours for the clone, clone verified,
same bad results with disk error.

Suggestions on what to try ?
Paul
2018-06-23 19:20:38 UTC
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Post by Freemantle
Lenovo T500 laptop
Got a new Samsung 256G SSD
Installed latest Samsung migration software on to T500.
Plugged SSD into USB adapter to SSD and into T500 USB2 port.
Adapter is A/C powered.
Ran Samsung migration.
Ran OK, Said verified.
Took several hours.
Replace T500 HDD with SSD.
Boot ends immediately with disk error.
Made sure SSD was seated properly. No luck.
BIOS shows the Samsung as first boot device. Started BIOS disk check
and ran for a while with no errors so stopped.
Put HDD back in and all is working with HDD. Boots OK.
Retried all above and again, took hours for the clone, clone verified,
same bad results with disk error.
Suggestions on what to try ?
Did you make a Macrium emergency boot CD ?

Even if you didn't do the clone with Samsung, you
can make a Macrium boot CD, boot the laptop with the
SSD installed, then select "Boot Repair" from the menu.

1) Install Macrium.
2) There should be a menu option to make an emergency boot CD.
Select WinPE5 or WinPE10 of the available options, as they're
more likely to support USB3 ports.
3) Burn the CD you just made.
4) Boot the computer (now with SSD on board) and try
the boot repair from the Macrium menu.

https://www.macrium.com/reflectfree

*******

We don't know what OS you're using, because you crossposted
to both the Win7 group and the WinXP group.

In the WinXP case, you can edit the ARC path in boot.ini,
to correct the partition number. If you had a copy of
PTEDIT32, it might become clear whether the cloning
operation has made modifications to the MBR or not.
Like changing the partition slots used. Here, the first
partition is the OS partition. If I moved the partition
to the second slot, I would need "partition(2)" or so.

[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn /PAE

To get PTEDIT32, you can download this 23.7MB file,
then use 7ZIP to extract the 503KB copy of PTEDIT32.
PTEDIT32 is good for legacy DOS partitioned disks,
rather than GPT. GPT wasn't around when PTEDIT32
was written. Compare the table view for the source
disk, versus the destination disk, and see whether
the Samsung "clone" isn't very good.

http://www.download3k.com/System-Utilities/File-Disk-Management/Download-Partition-Magic.html

enpm800retaildemo.zip 23,776,770 bytes

You can use 7ZIP to burrow into the file and extract
the copy of PTEDIT32.exe.

L:\enpm800retaildemo.zip\Setup\PMagic.cab\
PTEDIT32.EXE 503,808 bytes September 16, 2002, 2:24:48 AM

PTEDIT32.exe is especially well suited to WinXP
users, because WinXP doesn't support GPT at all,
and any WinXP disk you're interested in, should
be viewable.

HTH,
Paul
VanguardLH
2018-06-23 21:06:03 UTC
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Freemantle wrote:

<snipped the duplicated post>

You cannot see your SAME post submitted 3 days earlier but instead
titled "Can Lenovo T500 laptop accept a Samsung SSD ?" and to which
there are replies?
Freemantle
2018-06-24 03:12:01 UTC
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So here is how it is going down.

Samsung migration software is crapola !
After several tries it still did not work.
This was the latest Samsung SW on-line.

I tried fixing the boot sector with MR Free CD but that did not work.

So I cloned the HDD C:\ to the SSD using MR Free clone.

! THAT WORKED ! I booted FAST.

Now I need to get my HDD D:\ to the SSD.

Suggestions please.
Partition with what is best ?
Since things are not installed on D:\ but only files I guess a copy to
the new SSD D:\ is OK ??? or what is suggested.

Thanks for the actual help.


P.S. I think that Samsung has abandoned Win XP since the Magician SW
craps out saying it wants a later Win OS so maybe the migration SW
cannot handle Win XP any more. BUT there was no message as such.

Magician is separate from the migration SW.
Magician is used to optimize the SSD and that worked on other laptops I
have used it on.

I will have to locate the older copies of Samsung SW on other PCs where
i did also do a HDD to SSD on Win XP pro successfully.
Paul
2018-06-24 03:26:04 UTC
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Post by Freemantle
So here is how it is going down.
Samsung migration software is crapola !
After several tries it still did not work.
This was the latest Samsung SW on-line.
I tried fixing the boot sector with MR Free CD but that did not work.
So I cloned the HDD C:\ to the SSD using MR Free clone.
! THAT WORKED ! I booted FAST.
Now I need to get my HDD D:\ to the SSD.
Suggestions please.
Partition with what is best ?
Since things are not installed on D:\ but only files I guess a copy
to the new SSD D:\ is OK ??? or what is suggested.
Thanks for the actual help.
P.S. I think that Samsung has abandoned Win XP since the Magician SW
craps out saying it wants a later Win OS so maybe the migration SW
cannot handle Win XP any more. BUT there was no message as such.
Magician is separate from the migration SW.
Magician is used to optimize the SSD and that worked on other laptops I
have used it on.
I will have to locate the older copies of Samsung SW on other PCs where
i did also do a HDD to SSD on Win XP pro successfully.
OK, so the original C: *was* WinXP.

Yes, Macrium Reflect Free can clone.

It can clone more than one partition in a command invocation.

It can clone partitions one at a time if you want.

*******

Now a question for you would be "do you want the stuff
on the SSD any old way" or "do you want the SSD to work
as efficiently as possible" ?

If the WinXP partitions were created in WinXP, the preferred
partitioning scheme is legacy DOS partitions with cylinder
(CHS) alignment. The numbers in the PTEDIT table viewer
will all be divisible by 63.

SSD drives are inherently power_of_two devices.

This is why, when Windows 7 makes partitions, it aligns
them on 2^20 byte boundaries, and gives not a fig for
CHS or cylinders. But, the Windows 7 way works best with
the SSD. The clusters on the SSD are automatically
aligned by such a setup.

When you clones C: over, you had a chance to align it.

In frame #7 of this filmstrip, you will see the
Alignment window while cloning. In frame #7 you
can see the value is already sitting at the 1MB choice.

Loading Image...

So say you cloned over a C: and a D: that way, using
the re-alignment capability. If you go to Disk Management
and add a partition E: to the SSD, the alignment on that
goes back to CHS and divisible-by-63. This means
you need the right tools, to add other partitions in
future.

WinXP Disk Management doesn't have a Shrink/Expand function
like some of the other OSes.

This suggests you should design the SSD layout now, so it's
appropriate for device usage in the long term.

*******

WinXP doesn't support TRIM.

If you need to TRIM the device, take it over to a later
OS and do the TRIM request there. The "Optimize" panel, the
one used to defragment HDDs, is the place an SSD would
be labeled with the TRIM request option.

The SSD doesn't need to be defragmented.

Some SSD Toolboxes will have their own TRIM
option to help WinXP out. But I don't know if
the Samsung Toolbox has that.

There's no question an SSD can help out WinXP I/O speed,
but the numbers WinXP uses just weren't designed for this.
You can slap it around a bit.

Or just ignore all the advice and "just use it".

Paul
VanguardLH
2018-06-24 06:28:53 UTC
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Samsung migration software is crapola ! After several tries it still
did not work. This was the latest Samsung SW on-line.
I tried fixing the boot sector with MR Free CD but that did not work.
So I cloned the HDD C:\ to the SSD using MR Free clone. ! THAT WORKED
! I booted FAST.
You posted into TWO Windows newsgroups: XP and 7. XP does not support
the TRIM function on SSDs. Without TRIM, the SSD will become gradually
slower -- unless the SSD itself includes code in its firmware to do the
garbage collection but that only happens when the drive is idle (the
manufacturers don't reveal how long before they detect a drive is idle).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trim_(computing)

Piriform's Defraggler, a drive defragmenter, claims it can perform the
equivalent TRIM commands as does the OS.

https://www.ccleaner.com/docs/defraggler/technical-information/defraggler-and-ssds

So you could use Defraggler but that is a manually instigated operation.
Create a reminder in whatever calendaring program you use to remind
yourself to run a TRIM about once per month. Defraggler can be ran from
the command line; see:

https://www.ccleaner.com/docs/defraggler/advanced-usage/command-line-parameters

You could have Defraggler run as a scheduled event in Task Scheduler. I
don't know if Defraggler detects the SSD and issues a TRIM or if it is a
special menu selected function. In the latter case, a scheduled
Defraggler won't include the TRIM. If you use a 3rd party defragmenter,
make sure it is the only one used within an instance of Windows. That
means disabling Windows own defrag on Windows startup (boot-time defrag)
and disable it running at any time, like on a schedule. I saw no
command line switch to Defraggler to tell it to *only* perform a TRIM.
I tried to find how the user tells Defraggler to do a TRIM but all I
find are articles like:

https://support.piriform.com/hc/en-us/articles/204044034

A Google search eventually found:

https://www.ccleaner.com/docs/defraggler/introducing-defraggler/system-requirements

Make damn sure whatever defragmenter you use recognizes the SSD drive as
SSD media, not as an HDD. I haven't used Windows XP for a long time.
You asked about an SSD in the T500 laptop in the Windows 7 newsgroup.
Wikipedia on Defraggler says it still supports Windows XP; however,
articles at Wikipedia can be incorrect or out of date. Piriform doesn't
list system requirements for Defraggler. If you had not muddied the
water by mixing different versions of Windows to cross-post your thread
(and your other same-topic threads, too), respondents might've notified
you earlier that Windows XP does not support TRIM. Without the
background TRIM to erase previously used memory blocks and flag them
immediately reusable, each write will get preceded by an erase and slows
the over write operation.

Defragmenters use different layouts and algorithms for where to put
clusters on the drive. That means they conflict with each other.
Defrag with one means out-of-alignment to the other, so they perform
unnecessary cluster movement to align to their own preferences.

You do NOT want to defrag an SSD as that puts unnecessary write wear on
the SSD which means it will fail earlier. All flash memory dies due to
oxide stress on their junctions, so an SSD will work until it
catastrophically fails. Make sure you save backups.
Now I need to get my HDD D:\ to the SSD. Suggestions please.
That doesn't say what you plan to do. Are you going to slice up the SSD
into two partitions, like C: for the OS+apps partition and D: for a data
files partition? Or do you simply want to copy the data files from the
HDD into the C: partition on the SSD?

And how are you going to attach the HDD to the laptop which now has the
SSD in place of the HDD? Are you going to get a USB enclosure in which
to put the HDD? If so, does the laptop have USB3 ports or only the far
slower USB2 ports? From what I found for T500 specs, it only has USB2
ports. The HDD is now outside the laptop. How are you going to connect
it to the laptop to use it there?
P.S. I think that Samsung has abandoned Win XP since the Magician SW
craps out saying it wants a later Win OS so maybe the migration SW
cannot handle Win XP any more. BUT there was no message as such.
https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/minisite/ssd/product/consumer/magician/

Use the link to the online copy of the program's guide. In there it
says what versions of Windows that it supports.

Magician will NOT perform automatic and background TRIM operations. The
assumption is you use their SSD on an OS that has built-in support for
TRIM commands. Windows XP does not, but you posted in the Windows 7
newsgroup, too, hence muddied up where you intended to use an SSD.
Magician is separate from the migration SW. Magician is used to
optimize the SSD and that worked on other laptops I have used it on.
Guess you'll have to find the installers you used for Magician on those
"other laptops" with unidentified versions of Windows.
I will have to locate the older copies of Samsung SW on other PCs where
i did also do a HDD to SSD on Win XP pro successfully.
Just remember that *you* will need to manually load Magican and run its
Optimize function to issue the TRIm commands. There is no CLI (command
line interface) to Magician, so you cannot add it in Task Scheduler to
do a TRIM on the SSD.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-06-24 07:14:56 UTC
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Post by Freemantle
So here is how it is going down.
Samsung migration software is crapola !
After several tries it still did not work.
This was the latest Samsung SW on-line.
I tried fixing the boot sector with MR Free CD but that did not work.
So I cloned the HDD C:\ to the SSD using MR Free clone.
! THAT WORKED ! I booted FAST.
Now I need to get my HDD D:\ to the SSD.
Suggestions please.
Partition with what is best ?
Anything, including the OS's own Disk Management.
Post by Freemantle
Since things are not installed on D:\ but only files I guess a
copy to the new SSD D:\ is OK ??? or what is suggested.
When you say "the new SSD D:", do you mean there is one, after you
cloned, or do you mean after you've cloned it by following whatever
answers you get to your question above about partitioning?

See Paul's note about partition alignment.

Anyway, if your old D: just had files on, no installed software, then
yes, after you've sorted out any alignment issues, it doesn't matter
what you use to copy/move the files from the old to the new. (I presume
you're using an external USB "cable" or case for the copying - for the
initial clone and now for the copying.)
Post by Freemantle
Thanks for the actual help.
P.S. I think that Samsung has abandoned Win XP since the Magician SW
craps out saying it wants a later Win OS so maybe the migration SW
cannot handle Win XP any more. BUT there was no message as such.
Depends. Was this software that you had to install and then run, like
any other piece of XP software, or did you have to make a bootable CD
(or USB stick)? If the latter, it ought to be OS-independent. (If it's
64-bit and your _hardware_ is only 32-bit, it wouldn't work.)
Post by Freemantle
Magician is separate from the migration SW.
Magician is used to optimize the SSD and that worked on other laptops I
have used it on.
I will have to locate the older copies of Samsung SW on other PCs where
i did also do a HDD to SSD on Win XP pro successfully.
Or just keep the Macrium CD you've made and use that.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"I'm not against women. Not often enough, anyway." - Groucho Marx
Wolf K
2018-06-24 13:24:03 UTC
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Post by Freemantle
So here is how it is going down.
Samsung migration software is crapola !
After several tries it still did not work.
This was the latest Samsung SW on-line.
[...]

I think that imaging software will do what you want. Eg, Macrium Reflect
has been mentioned in several thread about replacing a bootdisk. There
are others. Image the HDD, the copy/restore it to the SSD.

HTH
--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
What you choose to do with your body will, inevitably, have
psychological consequences.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-06-24 20:20:18 UTC
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Post by Wolf K
Post by Freemantle
So here is how it is going down.
Samsung migration software is crapola !
After several tries it still did not work.
This was the latest Samsung SW on-line.
[...]
I think that imaging software will do what you want. Eg, Macrium
Reflect has been mentioned in several thread about replacing a
bootdisk. There are others. Image the HDD, the copy/restore it to the
SSD.
HTH
Image (to a third drive), then restore (from the third drive to the SSD)
is probably what I'd do, too; two operations. However, Macrium (and
probably some of the others) can also clone, which is a single operation
and thus faster. The main difference is that you don't have an image
file (to use as backup) afterwards - and, of course, the fact that the
whole operation takes about half the time.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Bother," said the Borg, "we assimilated a Pooh."
Charlie+
2018-06-24 07:15:40 UTC
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On Sat, 23 Jun 2018 11:52:15 -0700, Freemantle
Post by Freemantle
Lenovo T500 laptop
Got a new Samsung 256G SSD
Installed latest Samsung migration software on to T500.
Plugged SSD into USB adapter to SSD and into T500 USB2 port.
Adapter is A/C powered.
Ran Samsung migration.
Ran OK, Said verified.
Took several hours.
Replace T500 HDD with SSD.
Boot ends immediately with disk error.
Made sure SSD was seated properly. No luck.
BIOS shows the Samsung as first boot device. Started BIOS disk check
and ran for a while with no errors so stopped.
Put HDD back in and all is working with HDD. Boots OK.
Retried all above and again, took hours for the clone, clone verified,
same bad results with disk error.
Suggestions on what to try ?
You may have sorted this already but , I've done a few similar and the
trick is to run your clone etc. software with the receiving drive
already installed in the laptop. You can get the boot error if you run
exactly the same clone etc. software to the new drive in a caddy or
another computer! I dont know why but it is a workaround and of course
only needs to be done once. C+
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