Discussion:
TV Confused - Media Center
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Marty
2018-04-23 23:51:43 UTC
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Windows Media Center.
Win 7 Pro

1) on the PC with the Hauppauge 2500 dual TV adapter some TV recording
go to one folder and others go another folder.
Why ?
How do I get all to go to the same folder ?
Recording have recent dates like yesterday and day before.
These are Created Date, not original program date which is Date.

Folders are User\Recorded TV and Public\Recorded TV.

I cannot find a place to set a record destination.

2) Several L.A. CA TV stations changed frequency today.
They said a rescan was necessary today.
But, my Toshiba TV seems to have found them unassisted, sort of.
58.1 is nogo, 58.2 and 58.3 OK. 58.4 nogo.

However, the Hauppauge adapter rescan found only one, Ch 28.x and
subchannels.
A rescan still left Ch 58.x and subchannels blank.

Suggestions please.
Paul
2018-04-24 06:15:45 UTC
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Post by Marty
Windows Media Center.
Win 7 Pro
1) on the PC with the Hauppauge 2500 dual TV adapter some TV recording
go to one folder and others go another folder.
Why ?
How do I get all to go to the same folder ?
Recording have recent dates like yesterday and day before.
These are Created Date, not original program date which is Date.
Folders are User\Recorded TV and Public\Recorded TV.
I cannot find a place to set a record destination.
2) Several L.A. CA TV stations changed frequency today.
They said a rescan was necessary today.
But, my Toshiba TV seems to have found them unassisted, sort of.
58.1 is nogo, 58.2 and 58.3 OK. 58.4 nogo.
However, the Hauppauge adapter rescan found only one, Ch 28.x and
subchannels.
A rescan still left Ch 58.x and subchannels blank.
Suggestions please.
http://klcs.org/schedule/#page=schedule&day=20180424&provider=Broadcast

"As of Monday, April 23, 2018 KLCS will no longer be able to carry
FNX channel 58.4. FNX programming is available to watch online at
https://fnx.org/watch/ over the air on 24.2, DirecTV 24.2 or
Frontier 471."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KLCS

The station's digital signal remained on its pre-transition UHF channel 41,
using PSIP to display KLCS's virtual channel as 58 on digital television
receivers.

The station's digital channel is multiplexed:

Channel Video PSIP short name Programming
58.1 720p KLCS-1 Main KLCS programming / PBS
58.2 480i KLCS-2 PBS Kids
58.3 480i KLCS-3 Create

FNX was broadcast on 58.4 from December 30, 2015 until April 22, 2018.

https://gigaom.com/2014/03/28/la-trial-finds-that-broadcasters-can-share-their-tv-channels/

That means physically, there is a 6MHz channel on physical
channel 41 (632-638 Mhz). (If you were using VLC to watch
TV in Linux, you'd set the frequency to 638MHz on the
Hauppauge tuner.) And at the moment, three digital
channels are multiplexed into the 6MHz bandwidth. That means
there are packets for three streams, coming out of the
data recovery of the tuner, and when you select 58.1 it
"selects" just the packets for that. The other two packets
are thrown on the floor, essentially.

(On Linux, you can use w-scan or w_scan to "survey" your
airspace and determine what signals are present. You must
have the firmware for your tuner loaded in the OS. I
remastered a Ubuntu DVD and added a single firmware file
to it, just so I could "boot and watch TV" :-) VLC does
the watching. Unfortunately, the TV tuner feature
in the Windows VLC, doesn't work, not even in VLC 3.
This is why I have a Linux disc for that purpose,
"verifying the airspace".)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplex_%28television%29

"...sub-grouped as interleaved data packets for broadcast
over a network or modulated multiplexed medium, which
are split out at the receiving end"

It sounds like the Hauppauge either doesn't have the
same channel sensitivity as the Toshiba, or there is
an "on-purpose" blanking of physical channel 41 ?
Are the two devices fed from a 1:2 splitter ?
Do they use entirely separate broadcast antennas ?

(My Hauppauge and my STB are fed by a 1:2 splitter, and the
Hauppauge receives twice as many channels as the STB.)

It doesn't sound like you're on cable, it sounds like
an OTA situation judging by the numbers you quote
for the channels.

Here, I have only one broadcast channel that multiplexes,
and it is multiplexing HD and SD with the same content,
as elements of its multiplex. Which to me seems pretty
pointless, but, I'm just a TV watcher and what do I know.
The rule of thumb used to be "cable multiplexes like crazy,
while OTA sends one stream per channel". But it looks like
the pressure is on your TV market, to shave more channels
off the top end. Here, 720p is probably as low as we go,
and nobody would transmit 480i on OTA.

One other thing to note - I don't think Windows really scans.
It could be using TV Guide data to determine it should
look at channel 58. There might be some problem with
the logic Windows uses, and I don't remember which
comes first there, the cart or the horse. There was
some little trick to getting mine to work right, as
at first, Media Center refused to look for digital
TV signals at all. Canadians need a "trick" to make
it work. It probably "just works" in the USA. Maybe
you can manually edit the channels ? I don't remember
now. Manually editing the channels helps some
times, to remove weak channels that only
prevent quick access to the strong channels.

One issue my Hauppauge has, is the driver insists on
a giant buffer, and the channel change time is 10x
longer than my STB. And the STB wasn't exactly
heroic on channel speed either, but the Hauppauge
is positively lethargic. I know what it's doing...
but I'm not impressed.

Paul
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-04-24 13:42:56 UTC
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In message <pbmi2e$jla$***@dont-email.me>, Paul <***@needed.invalid>
writes:
[]
Post by Paul
to it, just so I could "boot and watch TV" :-) VLC does
the watching. Unfortunately, the TV tuner feature
in the Windows VLC, doesn't work, not even in VLC 3.
I've used a TV tuner from VLC in Windows. However, if by "the TV tuner
feature" you meant the ability to _scan_, then no - I had to enter the
frequency manually.
[]
Post by Paul
Here, I have only one broadcast channel that multiplexes,
and it is multiplexing HD and SD with the same content,
as elements of its multiplex. Which to me seems pretty
pointless, but, I'm just a TV watcher and what do I know.
Maybe so people who only have a T1 decoder can still see it? (Or can T1
and T2 data not be incorporated into one multiplex anyway?)
Post by Paul
The rule of thumb used to be "cable multiplexes like crazy,
while OTA sends one stream per channel". But it looks like
Not here in UK! We have between three and six (IIRR) multiplexes (nearly
everywhere should be able to get the three, with - I think - about 90%
[by population rather than area?] can get all of them); each multiplex
carries about half a dozen SD channels. (That's not the full story:
there are HD [T2] multiplexes [there have been SD channels only
available to those with T2 decoders, I'm not sure if that's currently
the case], radio channels, data channels, ...). The multiplexes have
_tried_ to remain roughly where - in spectrum terms - the old analogue
channels were for each area, to minimise the amount of aerial
replacement people had to do, but have only moderately succeeded in that
(not least because there are more multiplexes than there were analogue
channels [4 + 1]).
Post by Paul
the pressure is on your TV market, to shave more channels
off the top end. Here, 720p is probably as low as we go,
and nobody would transmit 480i on OTA.
If 480i is SD, and OTA means over-the-air terrestrial broadcasting, then
here that's still the majority of OTA! (Except it'll be more than 480
because of the 625/525 difference. But most of our terrestrial channels
are SD/T1, with a few duplicated on HD/T2. [As I said, I'm not sure if
we have any SD/T2-only at the moment; we did at one point.])
Post by Paul
One other thing to note - I don't think Windows really scans.
Yes, I didn't find a way to tell VLC to scan in Windows. (Though as our
multiplexes carry multiple channels, that wasn't _as_ frustrating.)
[]
Post by Paul
Paul
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'evidence'. Professor Edzart Ernst, prudential
magazine, AUTUMN 2006, p. 13.
NY
2018-04-24 14:33:00 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Paul
to it, just so I could "boot and watch TV" :-) VLC does
the watching. Unfortunately, the TV tuner feature
in the Windows VLC, doesn't work, not even in VLC 3.
I've used a TV tuner from VLC in Windows. However, if by "the TV tuner
feature" you meant the ability to _scan_, then no - I had to enter the
frequency manually.
Yes I've used VLC 2.1.5 to watch/record from a DVB-T/T2 tuner, by entering
the frequency in MHz. I can even record a whole multiplex, though this only
works with one of my two adaptors; the other one stalls and keeps pausing.

(I still use 2.1.5 because I found that later ones displayed corruption with
certain .mpg files, as opposed to .wtv or .ts files.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Paul
Here, I have only one broadcast channel that multiplexes,
and it is multiplexing HD and SD with the same content,
as elements of its multiplex. Which to me seems pretty
pointless, but, I'm just a TV watcher and what do I know.
Maybe so people who only have a T1 decoder can still see it? (Or can T1
and T2 data not be incorporated into one multiplex anyway?)
As far as I know, you can't mix the two. A T2 multiplex uses H264 encoding
for all channels, even for sub-SD 544x576 channels as opposed to HD
1920x1080 channels. A T1 multiplex uses MPEG1/2 encoding.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Paul
The rule of thumb used to be "cable multiplexes like crazy,
while OTA sends one stream per channel". But it looks like
Not here in UK! We have between three and six (IIRR) multiplexes (nearly
everywhere should be able to get the three, with - I think - about 90% [by
population rather than area
The main transmitters in the UK (eg Emley Moor, Bilsdale, Crystal Palace,
Oxford, Hannington, and a lot more) transmit 8 multiplexes, with BBC News HD
and BBC Four HD on the 7th and 8th. Some of the most important relays from
those main transmitters carry 6. All the little "Freeview Lite" (sic)
fill-in relays that serve areas that are out of reach of the main
transmitters, carry just three.

There are plans to move multiplexes COM7 (eg BBC News HD) and COM8 (eg BBC
Four HD) onto single-frequency networks where every capable transmitter
broadcasts the mux on the same frequency and all locked to remain in phase.
This is a short-term measure to free up a few more frequencies to allow
reorganisation required by the government's above-800 MHz and then above-700
MHz sell off to mobile phone companies. I believe the longer-term plan is to
get rid of COM7 and COM8 altogether, and to move their channels into
existing muxes, which will be converted from T1 to T2. There is a "little"
problem with that last aim: people with older equipment may need to replace
T1-only TVs and PVRs with T1-and-T2 equipment, which at present is only
required to watch in HD.
Marty
2018-04-24 15:26:49 UTC
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Yes OTA.
OK so I have the channel thing sorted.
They removed the predominantly American Indian channel 58.4.
I do not see it at the other mentioned spot so who knows what is up with
that. I rescanned the Toshiba TV and it is ok now.

But the TV program record location is baffling me.
I can only select a drive as the destination and I find no place to
select a folder.

Recordings go into two different folders.
Seems arbitrary but I am now wondering if it has to do with the 2250
having two TV tuners ?

On-line search says several different destination folders that do NOT
match up with what I see here.
NY
2018-04-24 16:08:03 UTC
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Post by Marty
Yes OTA.
OK so I have the channel thing sorted.
They removed the predominantly American Indian channel 58.4.
I do not see it at the other mentioned spot so who knows what is up with
that. I rescanned the Toshiba TV and it is ok now.
But the TV program record location is baffling me.
I can only select a drive as the destination and I find no place to select
a folder.
Recordings go into two different folders.
Seems arbitrary but I am now wondering if it has to do with the 2250
having two TV tuners ?
On-line search says several different destination folders that do NOT
match up with what I see here.
It's about a year since I stopped using Windows Media Centre because (in the
UK) it stopped picking up listings from whatever web resource it used (which
meant you got listings about 14 days into the future) and had to rely
instead on the OTA listings embedded in the data stream which are only 7
days (and HD channel listings are encoded in such a way that WMC can't
decode OTA ones). I now use Next PVR.

But when I used WMC I never had problems with recordings on different
channels going into different locations, even when they were recorded via
different DVB-T or T2 adaptors. Everything went into the "Recordings"
directory that I configured when I was setting up WMC (by default it was
somewhere within c:\users\<username>\videos, but I changed it to a different
drive with far more space).

I wonder why your recordings are not all going into the same place.
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